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This TH-cam channel is 10 times better than any other TH-cam channel, which costs 10 times as much. Randy is balanced, timbre matched while providing tone controlled advice.
I wish all audiophiles were competent electronics technicians. If they were, all of this nonsense would go away. And manufacturers wouldn't be selling $1200 cables! :)
You are correct, HiFi audio is a broad category, personal choices are subjective. What kinds of music you listen to, what your preferred audio source is and your listening environment will totally influence your component choices. Enjoy what you like how you like is the whole point of the hobby. Like you always say " Binge listen to your music and fill your life with joy."
Its been around 1 year i followed u. After watching lots of reviews and auditioning some speaker and amps for a month.last week i bought my first setup. Elac debut reference, audiolab 6000a and NODE. It suit my music , my room and my sound preference Thank you Randy!
Great video with great advice 👍. Regarding power, say you have a speaker rated at 85dB @ 1m @ 1W @ 1kHz and you want to play it at 91dB (pretty loud) sitting 3m away from it. Given that each additional 3dB requires doubling of power and every additional meter requires doubling of power, you'll need 16W for 91dB at 3m away. Now that's at 1kHz; add 6dB of headroom for low frequencies (where most of the power goes) and you end up with 64W. And since music is dynamic, an amp outputting 50W rms at the speaker's rated impedance and having 1.2dB of headroom (i.e. an average decent amp) will be enough for typical listening conditions.
12:58 - I come from a family of musicians and have had professional musicians around me since I could walk, and I feel pretty confident in saying that MOST professional musicians do not care what your audio setup sounds like. What they care about is you listening on something that actually makes you enjoy their work, and that the quality is good enough that the feeling they are trying to convey comes through. I mean, if you listen to their music on a phone speaker and claim it sounds just as good as them live, thats a bit insulting for obvious reasons, but most musicians care about the music, not your gear.
Resonance is necessary in many ways. The enclosures are tuned in a way that helps make up for any deficiencies in the crossovers and driver designs. Even the most perfect driver will not be flat in response. The enclosures are the main thing that gives the speakers their personality. EQ is used a lot in professional audio, including professional mastering. Anyone saying these are bad things just have no idea how to use them. I agree with all of the points you've made here, and I have worked as an audio engineer.
I ran a mismatched LCR for years and loved it. But after upgrading the L and R last year, all of a sudden the C sounded terrible and I wound up buying the matching C and now it sounds great again.
The center speaker issue is complex. Timbral matching is definitely ideal, but a lot of manufacturer’s “matched” centers sound nothing like the mains anyway.
I had a lad on a forum tell me that you need to spend £1k on speakers because cheap speaker cones can't replicate the dynamic range of an electric guitars. that's saying only an expensive speaker can correctly replicate the sound of a cheap speaker in a speaker cabinet of a guitar amplifier.
I use two different subs. A Speedwoofer to handle the upper twenties. The sucker is crisp but not pounding in the last increment of bass. My SVS handles only below the range of the Speedwoofer. Pretty impressive results. TO ME!
Thank you so much for your level measured, sound, and helpful perceptions. You are certainly the most grounded audio reviewer, IMHO. Keep up the great work, my friend.
Speaker frequency response is properly measured in an anechoic chamber, but actual anechoic chambers are not completely anechoic. None of the rooms in my house are non-resonant with no wall reflections. That affects how any speaker will sound in a room, and chances are that rooms in a house will interact with speakers differently than in the recording studio used for final mixing (which probably was not anechoic either). A bit of eq or tone controls can help. One problem with tone controls is if you use them too much, you can boost some frequencies too much and wind up clipping the next amplification stage on louder passages at those frequencies..
Tone controls after a studio has done all the mixing and processing shouldn't be needed... but some folks just like their own sound It's good for the old time musicians that lost most of their high frequencies hearing. You can always spot them in the music store with the treble know maxed
Randy, the King of audio common sense! Talking about tone controls, you left out the " loudness" button, something I always use all the time especially at night. You're completely right about "matching", or not, center with front speakers: because of not enough room in height, in a cabinet, I use a Bose center, only 3" high, with Paradigm all around. I've lived with this for over 10 years with no issues. It is not my main system but being in a den behind the kitchen it's used daily.
Component power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers can have the same or even lower wattage specs than garden variety 100w receivers and blow them out of the water sq-wise because of slew rate and damping factor. Higher slew rate can improve dynamic speed for transients. Higher damping factor creates better control over the speaker diaphragm's movement. Receivers generally have low specs in both.
Randy you bring up a good point about ruler flat speakers. People should go listen to a ruler flat system before crowning that setup the victor. I've heard such setups and I'm adding my own Harman house curve immediately: (scoop out v-shaoe, little more on top, definitely more on bottom). This curve or response also correlates with our hearing. We typically have diminishment in the high freq, and we have lower sensitivity to the bass freq. The common reaction to a completely linear system (DAC, speaker, amp, etc) are adjectives like thin, sterile, lifeless, etc.
A ruler flat speaker with good dispersion can be eq'ed into anything you want it to be. This is objectively superior to a speaker that has lots of "character." But yea, youre still not wrong. if you don't know what you like, utilizing demos/return periods is definitely optimal for learning without wasting.
@@eattoast6378 I hear what you're saying. But that also means you need to apply the EQ and know what you're doing to do so properly. And not forgetting that EQ in the analog domain can be... Messy... So having a speaker with a house sound isn't bad as long as you subjectively sign-off on liking that flavor!
Hook up an oscilloscope to the speaker outputs your amp. Play some music. Crank it up to taste. Check the scope for clipping distortion. You will find that it will have to be severe until it is audible. When the scope shows any amount of clipping distortion, then you'll know you need a more powerful amp.
To go off the "matching subs" topic; I had a small punchy sub near tv and a 12 inch cheapy in the corner turned down. This was excellent for vocals and thwacks and the larger sub took care of deep weighty stuff.
I am glad there are a few audio places near me! I went to listen to several speakers live! And much to my surprise I walked out with a pair of Klipsch RP600MIIS for $450. They sounded better than Dynaudio Emit10s as well as Focal 806, both of which cost a bit more! Listen live if you you can you won't regret it!
12:00 Absolutely. I worked for years as a "Radio/TV Engineer." In broadcasting all of the audio is 600 ohms, balanced. The balanced configuration eliminates common-mode noise, and the relatively low Z reduces the influence of stray EM fields. But for short runs, hi-Z & shielded cables are perfectly adequate.
Great video Randy, you aren’t afraid to speak the truth. My own observations about hifi are:- 1) first and foremost find an honest specialist dealer, someone who cares about music and not just trying to sell you something. Then trust your ears. 2) you don’t need to spend a fortune to get a very pleasant sound- I bought one of my sons an Audio Technica LP120XUSB turntable with a pair of Edifier 1700BT speakers for Christmas which cost about £370 total and it sounds brilliant in his listening room. My streamer is a Bludento BT which was under £50 and again it is very good, not as detailed as vinyl or cd but it is very musical and I do enjoy listening to it for hours at a time. 3) don’t be afraid to buy second hand from such as eBay but it’s better if someone is fairly local so you can collect and make sure it is working. I have bought 2 turntables and 2 pairs of good speakers this way and have saved an absolute fortune. 4) don’t be afraid to try classic Japanese brands. My expensive British pre amp stopped working during the Covid pandemic so to put me on I bought a Technics integrated amp off eBay for £150. It’s brilliant. I am still using it as my main amp 2 years later. I bought a new turntable this year, something that I had wanted for the best part of 50 years and told my dealer all about it. He laughed at first until when he came to install the turntable and actually heard it. He too was blown away. He listens to very expensive systems all day and commented you would have to spend way north of £3K to better it. Praise indeed. 4) you don’t need to spend a fortune on a cartridge. I am now using a Sumiko Pearl MM which is about £130 in the UK. It was recommended by my dealer who gave me it for free. In a good arm and turntable it’s great. 3D soundstage, very detailed and rich. Much better than the expensive AT MC that I used to have. I asked about more expensive cartridges and being honest he said why, you have got an exceptional sounding system as it is. That is why my number one comment above is the most important.
Some good facts there Randy. Me personally I prefer a more linear speaker, I think it helps out when you get home and the Room makes its own adjustments to your frequency response. But I certainly wouldn't say a neutral speaker is better than any other speaker. I've had some Class D and Class G amps, some are better than others...the Elac Alchemy class D sounds fabulous, so good I had bought a 2nd one. But the 2nd one didn't sound as good as the 1st, not bad at all but not as warm. If I didn't already have one I would have thought the 2nd one was how they sound. It made me question some things so I got rid of both of them. I agree with always wanting more power with solid state gear, but I will say I think it's more important that an amp can play strongly down to around 3ohms instead of having gobs of power. Rock on people!
Better if the power doubles from 8 to 4 ohms and doubles again at 2 ohms! Best if is stable down to 1 ohm. Many speakers have impedance curves that dip between 1 and 2 ohms in the bass and have fried amplifiers in the process, even at moderate volumes. Higher impedance speakers are easy to drive and do not need this capability. So many people look only at nominal impedance rather than impedance curves with frequency.
@@36karpatoruski yeah I completely agree with you on this. It's pretty hard to find a newer amp (cheap or mid-fi) that totally double downs on wattage at 4ohms these days..much less 2ohms lol. But what you said is something people newer to the hobby need to be aware of. Most speakers today seem to be plagued with lower sensitivity and swinging impedances, especially budget speakers, but the budget amps are not always built to support this. Especially the real cheap AVR's.
Great video with sage advice! Class D depends all on the implementation in my opinion. As an example, active speakers all rely on class D amplification. Bang & Olufsen with their Beolabs, Klipsch with the 5's, 7's and 9's and so on. I own and use several systems, some with A+B amplifiers and some with active speakers, in my home. Among them I have a pair of B&O Beolab Penta mk3, and they have all the characteristics of a natural sounding high-end system. Just sharing my thoughts here. Enjoy the music everyone 🙏🙂
The only reason to have flat speakers is if you're doing mixing or mastering. If you're not a mixing or mastering engineer, it's not that important. You can also use REW to correct the frequency response if you want to go that far. Acoustic treatment will do a lot more for you than a completely flat speaker
Hey RANDY, this video was from a year ago. Don’t know if you’ll see this, but thanks for serving in the Navy, and working in those hot conditions down below in the ship! Appreciate you will ask you Audio questions sometime. Keep up the good work!
Back in the mid 60s when I got into audio, the common thought was that all things being equal the amp with the most power will sound better. I compared a 50 watt SAE amp ( which at time was one of the best amps in audio) to their 200 watt amp. The difference was staggering. I returned the 50 watt amp and bought the 200 watt one. Yeah, wonders of wonders, they let you trial them at home, and you didn't have to drive up in a Ferrari, with an entourage before they'd get off their butts to help you, like nowadays in Ontario, Canada.
All amps have their own personality, often the value of components such as capacitors and resistors will be the driving factor more than the active components. Depending on your speakers, higher power amps can definitely give more punch. It's great to have a listen at home and be able to send one back if it's not quite right. I wish companies were more about the customer and less about the dollar these days too, but unfortunately it has changed to being about the dollar in so many cases. Regarding power. Two amps from the same manufacturer may sound similar, and the power makes a difference, but I have gone the opposite to you at times, going for a lower power amp that just sounded sweeter than a similar high powered one into my chosen speakers. It is very subjective. I don't believe there is a right and wrong answer. The perfect amplifier and speaker combination is the one that sounds amazing to your own ears. :)
^^ "get off their butts to help you, like nowadays in Ontario, Canada" ^^ Customer service was valued by the retailer decades ago, but not today - almost anywhere on the planet. Today's retailers and staff must feel the folks walking in the building owe them something just for walking inside the store. What ever you do don't expect or ask them to "go the extra mile". All the above being said, per my experience Emotiva and SVS do all they can for their customers.
Not defending bad customer service. Speaking as a former small business owner, it gets very tiring to help a customer and then find out they are just using my store to decide what to buy on the internet.
Cheapaudioman at his best. Randy. You NEED to interview a professional studio recording and mix engineer who works on popular music. You probably don't want to see how sausage is made, but it might explain why reproduction isn't the beginning and creates no end of variables in hi-fi.
Blame the labels. They want everything to sound like the last "hit" and seem to target car audio. All the claims of great dynamic range for digital media have gone out the window.
Hey @cheapaudioman Randy. I’ve hit on a cost conscious speaker buying approach that you and your viewers might appreciate… 1. Pick out a component I’d like to buy new 2. Research to narrow down past models to the ones that perform well and are still in stock in a few places. 3. Buy the new speaker set for around 40% the price of the latest model. I bought a pair of new Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 for £100. The latest (12.1) cost £249. It’s a pretty good strat I reckon! :)
Tone controls are mandatory. Not all recordings are equal, not all rooms are equal. Sometimes I want more bass, sometimes less. Sometimes I want more treble, sometimes less. The lack of tone controls is a way for the manufacturers to save money.
Nice video. Good stuff. With receiver (amp) power the only exception I have is when playing records. The internal phono does not boost the signal enough so you end up running the receiver at 75% power or more to get a decent volume. Not having a good sound is also an issue. The solution was to get an external preamp, a cheapo Chinese made one!, that had a gain boost before feeding the signal to the receiver. My audio set up is not the cheapest but far, far from expensive too. Selecting a preamp for my record player has been the most difficult thing to do cheaply! It has been a can of warms to say the least!
The Marantz PM 6006 integrated amp has both source direct and tone controls as well as a loudness button. Lets you decide for yourself what sounds best. Also allows you to change your mind.
I use my decade old Marantz PM6006 (my number 2 system) source direct for clarity from a Rotel Tribute cd player When I was younger I would increase the bass but my ( also 1 year old) Mission QX2 mk2 stand mounts in a narrow dining room generates a surprising amount of bass 🔊 🎶🙂
Looks like I’ll have plenty of opportunity to chime in with my own take on each of these points; the best implementation of “loudness compensation” I personally experienced was the variable loudness feature on Yamaha CA & CR product series starting in the mid ‘70s. It paid more attention to the Fletcher-Munson curves than any other mainstream product on the market then, and perhaps even now? I was in the retail business at the time, and they were a revelation compared to the Marantz, Sony, and even Fisher; and don’t hate me for it, but I was never a fan of the McIntosh.
Agree with your statement about speakers measurement being a ruse. I do believe that regardless of the on axis response that the off-axis response is very relevant to the speaker design and IRL room listening experience
My guess is why EQs fell out of favor back in the day... Because the sliders started collecting dust and then would make popping noises when moved. Those slider switches were notorious for that. IMO that would definitely take away from the experience when operating a (expensive) HiFi system.
Hi. @ 1: the measurements are made by 1m and 1W but how they perform by 3m and 10 W i your room , is written in the stars. Point11: it looks fancy with the equipment placed between the speakers, but the right placement is in the " operating range" of your fingers for tone control depending on desire and mood ( how i miss the bass and treble knob in the modern car stereo ! ).
My Pioneer Elite receiver I bought a few years ago is Class D and I think it works very well. I would agree that it can be analytical sounding but not thin and, to my ears, not harsh at all. And it has gobs of power compared to draw, it runs cool and can stay on all day without heat buildup. I could have gone conventional Class AB, but it ended up being the proper tool for the job for me. Peace
I miss bass boost and/or loudness control on modern receivers/pre-amps. Having that button eliminated the need and sometimes hassle of having to use an equalizer. Getting that extra 10 db bass boost @ 100 hz made a big positive difference to the sound. I find that as long as your fronts go down to around 40 hz or lower then you don't need a second sub for your HT in a small to medium sized room. I find additional subs benefit those who have odd shaped overtly large listening rooms. I too prefer lots of headroom when it comes to amp power. I find analog gear like turntables and cassette decks benefit from the added power.
I have gone thru 3 Denon receivers in the last 20+ years. They have all had bass/treble controls. My listening room is about 15X20. I started with one sub, but got much better results with 2. I am sure my receiver is happy not having to drive the bass.
A tip for shoppers- search EPROJECT youtube channel to hear amps and speakers compared. My favorite affordable speakers were Elac dbr62 and Yamaha 8" powered studio monitor. They sound almost identicle to me. But I have been using Yamaha products forever. Shocking my choice is, yes? Thanks again CAM. Your music tags never blow me out of my chair like some reviewers... No names 🤖
Great video. I design and build my own speakers, and they don't measure flat. The speakers in the recording studios don't measure flat. You can take 10 albums and if you adjusted a 7 band equalizer so each one sounded basically the same, you would come up with at least 5 different eq settings. I adjusted my stereo for a life-like sound, then measured it (in room), and I had a 12db boost in the 40-100hz range, a 3db boost at around 10khz, and a small dip in the 2-4khz range. And everyone that listened to it, loved it and wondered why it sounded so good compared to their system.
Every youtube reviewer gets this wrong about speaker sensitivity and speaker amp requierments. The ”dB” spec value of a speaker is measured with a 1khz signal, that’s pretty easy to drive and doesn’t require alot of power. With a lower frequency signal like 60hz on the other hand, the speaker will need alot more power to reach the same dB. There’s ALOT more to this but that’s an easy way to understand it. Don’t worry tho CAM you’re in good company, even Paul McGowan of PS Audio seemed confused by this.
@@tuojisprotesiu Hes literally a terrible person and lies regularly to defend products he knows are snake oil. Anyone under his spell is an embarrassment to the audio community.
I don’t care what anybody says. I like tone controls. With my Klipsch KLF 20s, the dual ten inch woofers are shy without some bass boost. With bass eq they kick hard and clean!
I enjoyed this video. For me it had great entertainment value and addressed issues in a style and language that most general watchers would appreciate. A great opener for light debate and subjective opinion🙂😉🤔
Late to the party, but the matching subs point is SO TRUE. I have a little 6" Velodyne that's my main subwoofer for general listening. Its small driver makes it extremely nimble and fantastic for music, and while it has fairly good extension for its size, it's a six inch driver. It absolutely needs help on the low end. So a 10" NHT with the crossover set to about 50hz helps give the really low end some solid reinforcement. It may not be a traditionally "correct" configuration, but it sounds great. Fast, and low enough for music, and together, play way down there for movie effects. Don't forget to HAVE FUN with your audio equipment folks. Fidelity and resolution are great, but ultimately whatever puts a big idiot grin on your face is the right way to do it.
After you get the best mechanical speaker and room adjustments and settings, EQ can be the finishing touch. Too much always creates phase shifting that can be heard. Digital EQ is a pain in the ass since the headroom is really unforgiving. I have abandoned all my affordable tube gear because they lack power. I use 100 watts plus SS amps now with phenomenal results, but I use only a tiny fraction of the rated power. Makes no sense, but it's tested to be true over and over again. Recently I ran some experiments with single versus twin subs, and single summed bass output and l/r separate signals. I will never go back to summed or LFE signals for 2 channel audio. But that's a discussion for another day. Thanks Randy, good tips as always.
One of the biggest Hi-Fi lies that I used to believe was the idea that buying more expensive equipment resulted in better sound. you know I'm not going to make that a blanket statement for everyone and everyone's taste but I will say a lot of it is subjective and me personally as a listener and as a lover of music I've often found that budget pieces are sonically more to my liking than high-end expensive esoteric pieces. there are a few reasons why I suppose you know I'm not knocking expensive gear and I'm certainly not suggesting that expensive gear isn't worth it because a lot of times in addition to increased sound quality you get a tremendous level of increased build quality. Plus one aspect of budget gear that I love and that includes speakers or turntables or amplifiers or whatever it might be is the fact that I don't worry about it as much. I feel like times that I've had five or $6,000 speakers and $10,000 amplifiers and those sorts of products I feel like I'm constantly fussing about them. I'm constantly worrying about upgrading my interconnects or oh man I really need to get that new expensive speaker cable to maximize my system. whereby when I have a budget piece I don't feel the need to throw $2,000 speaker cables on a $400 amplifier. Plus the other thing like I said is $1,000 or less basically when it comes to hi-fi gets you 90% of the way there in terms of everything that you could possibly want. spending any more than that yes you can get that last 10% but it's going to cost you and at the end of the day it's really not going to make that much of a difference. it's been said numerous times but don't waste your money on gear go out and waste your money on music and you'll be far happier for it, I know I am.
another view I have is people often talk about what a recording should sound like or what the artist intended. I don't necessarily follow that belief or let's say the belief that a product should exhibit a characteristic in such a way as to resemble whatever particular idea of a recording is or was. my personal belief is that music is best enjoyed as it sounds to you the listener, additionally I'm of the opinion especially when listening to older recordings, stuff from the 50 60 70s, that it is paramount to try to enjoy the music in the same way that the original listeners would have done so. like for example when Woolly bully was released and it was a hit song of course, what equipment where people listening to the recording and enjoying it, what were they using in the day and how are they using it? I think more particularly by doing it in this way you recapture the original magic of the particular recording. I mean I've got to restored 1978 pioneer receiver and I've also got the sort of matching pioneer speakers made the same year. And when I sit down and turn it on and listen to it I feel a sense of jubilation come over me with the knowledge that what I'm hearing is exactly what somebody would have heard in 1978, so when I put on Van Halen I know that I'm enjoying it to its utmost maximum in all its enthralling glory and it's captivating rapture in the same way that occurred had somebody went down and just picked up the brand new released first album and took it home and threw it on the turntable.
Fascinating point you have made! I thought I was the only person on earth who has an older system just to play "old" music on. I recently bought a 1980's cassette deck (!) to go with my beautiful DCM Timeframe 500 speakers from the same era. I pop in a Madonna tape and think to myself "wow... This is what I heard when I was 20 years old" You know what? It still sounds good! It's the idea of it all.. like going back in time.
You are so right, speaker output at any given frequency is inconsequential to me - what one needs to do is to listen to different brands of speakers to determine whose transducers sound the best to you. In other words, which speaker manufactures woofers have the fasted response, the most texture and definition and if this companies tweeters have the ambience, air and detail that you like the best .
Nice one Randy CAM, here's my 2 cents worth; my current 7.2 set up incIudes; a second hand Sony STR-1050 receiver , 4 second hand Wharfedale Diamond 9.5 towers for FL, FR, SL, & SR, with matching 9CS, and 2 newish Onkyo 4800 towers that I use for rear surrounds, and 3 different ported subs; a new 10" Jamo a newish 10" Yamaha and a 20yr old 12" Sony, it takes a bit of bollocking around to set them up but sounds OK to me, Never mind REW. Btw the saying is; "Bollocks" as in; "Never mind the Bollocks" (who killed Bamby) not; never mind the "Bullocks" unless you're a Matador or maybe an Amish Cowboy, then it's; "never mind the Bullocks, Bollocks Woody, have some fresh cream" When watching my Bulldog lick his Bollocks, my mate says; wish I could do that. He's a good dog, I said, give him a bone to chew on, he'll probably let you.
Some great points in this video. As my set up was originally for radio production some of the things I have may not be a typical set up. I noticed an improvement with upgrading interconnect cables and that was with a rubbish amplifier and speakers. After getting as much onto balanced audio this did make slight improvement which I could hear from the start. From turntable to preamp to DI box which then feeds into my mixer which then goes to a monitor amp or sound capture card. It's a very long signal path and hence the less noise the better.
While I agree that speakers do not have to measure perfectly flat (flat is usually slopped anyway 😁) - but it is one way of having a rough understanding of a speaker before you buy it and crucially I think a good measured speaker can usually take DSP well which then means you can really change it to sound the way you want. So I would love to see if you can start to look at DSP (e.g. MiniDSP)? We despertable need 'cheap' DSP solutions. I personally think its more important that spending a fortune on a DAC.
this kind of videos, the reality check ones are the best. I always catch myself dreaming about that damn RME ADI2 just to realise how much fun I'm having with my fathers Revox from the '90 and an apple dongle
I too dreamed about the RME ADI-2 Dac and kept buying cheaper ones with way fewer features and inferior quality. Found one on ebay with the original AKM chip new in sealed box for way less than retail. I have never heard my system sound so accurate and still musical. The built-in parametric eq with custom named presets allows me to have an eq curve for each pair of headphones by name and to have eq curves for my main speakers, night mode, movie, game, etc. Excellent headphone amp and it is a great preamplifier with xlr outputs as well. Feeding it from my Bluesound Node 3 with usb input and zero issues unlike the ChiFi dacs I used. I did like the SMSL SU9 balanced dac's sound, but it is outclassed by the RME feature set and build quality. End game for me!
I got some headphones that were more flat. I was honestly kind of annoyed by having to EQ that out because I felt the same way as you. Midrange was in my face, and the highs and lows were boring. Now, they are great in their clarity. That was definitely an upgrade. And I don’t only use them for music. Now days, I mainly use them for gaming. So that clarity became the more important factor. Personally, I like when a speaker has more emphasis in the lows. Guess I never got over my dubstep days. I’m a bit of a bass head. I don’t like when mids and highs get utterly muddy (like with preset “bass-boost” EQ’s) but I do care more about base response than perfectly clear highs. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I’ve damaged my high range hearing, so I can’t even hear the difference in clarity up there anyway.
There are plenty of crappy class AB amps on the market, but no one blames their topology as the source of their shortcomings. I think the time has come to stop saying class D is crappy as a topology and recognize that amp makers have some responsibility for making better use of the technology. There are very highly regarded class D amps on the market from NAD, Technics, PS Audio, Rogue, HiFi Rose, Bel Canto, and others. If more budget friendly manufacturers can’t make better class D amps that’s on them and their choice of architecture and components, not on the topology of the amp.
Interesting video and I always appreciate ideas, whether I agree with them or not, that stimulate thinking about specific things. I agree that amplifiers do not sound the same and I would like to suggest that when talking about the sound of amplifiers that it can only be in the context of how that amplifier pairs with certain transducers known as speakers. In other words, connecting different speakers to an amplifier will change the characteristics of that amplifier. In a way the speakers become a component of the amplifier. Some amplifiers may sound best when producing higher wattage than lower wattage and thus sound better using less efficient speakers. Other amplifiers may fall apart when driven hard but sound wonderful with relatively efficient speakers. Thoughts?
Won’t go into a lengthy dialogue and expounded my own “credentials” accumulated in over 60 years in the hobby😉, but would mildly disagree with Randy on one point - i.e. the timbral matching of the front row of speakers in a home theatre system. As a firm believer in the centre channel’s importance, I would always endeavour for the front row three to be from the same maker and product series, as in mainstream commercial products with wide product ranges there can be significant sonic differences among them. Of course, that’s exactly the type of minutiae that us still recovering audiophiles seek out to justify our history of wasted money🫣. As a well balanced surround system can leave much of the heavy lifting in the lower 2 1/2 or so octaves to the LFE/sub channel(s), that front row three can be small bookshelf/monitor types. And as a final note, not only are not all classD amps cut from the same cloth, the same can be said for class A, AB, or any of the flavours of vacuum tube designs- regardless of the power level, or thickness of the champagne gold anodized front panels. edited for typos and hopefully, logic
Interesting about amps playing better sound if pushed harder by way of lower sensitivity rating on speakers. No clue his subtle it is. I just use a super old akai receiver cuz it was recapped and looks sexy. But can it power 86 dB rated elac speakers efficiently? No clue so it takes months to make good stab in the dark decisions. It takes comparison which I don’t have regarding amps. It’s all such a racket really!
Enjoyed the video very much. Thank-you! And if you do have some hearing loss (like me), tone controls / an equalizer will allow you to boost the frequencies that your diminished hearing may be having some difficulty hearing.
Two disagreements, at least the ones where I paid attention. RCA vs XLR: Go with balanced every single time if you can afford. Balanced is almost an insurance against ground loops, faint background noise for high efficiency speakers. Matters the most if you have tube gear. That length story you gave is less than half the story... Eq and soundstage: Signal amplitude and phase are used to place an instrument in a place. Say, cymbals are behind the left speaker and if you jack up the treble then cymbal will be brought forward in the stage. If you like that go for it...
This test has be done by many many people. All tone controls on given equipment set to flat, same speakers and same measured volume.... yes you can hear the difference between amplifiers. Compare a Marantz to a Yamaha, they sound very different, better or worse is completely subjective.
@@ericingram7864 Do you have any links? With the flat frequency response and low distortion of these amplifiers I still think it's a 50/50 guess unless you are picking out of say 5 amps in a comparison and picking the right ones every time. I'll try to look some up.
I would agree that trying to listen to speakers is basically meaningless from my experience. When I was looking for speakers I found that a local Best Buy had a Magnolia showroom with a bunch of high end speakers I was interested in. I tried listening to them but what I found was that although they had the speakers, the people setting them up frequently didn't know what they were doing. Speaker placements were wonky, several speakers had damaged drivers, they didn't' run them with equipment that I would use, and sometimes only one of a pair of speakers would work at all. I finally made a blind purchase off recommendations and was lucky to get something I really like.
Tone controls add stages to an analog preamps signal path and while not ruining the sound will deteriorate the detail and transparency. Now, with quality dsp, tone and a multitude of other adjustments can be achieved without loss. Bypassing tone controls always shows an audible improvement in sound quality. Then the sound’s tonal snafus would be adjusted with room corrections. In an analog system any tone stages are added serially so any distortions are added. Notice how many self powered speakers can be altered to correct room resonance without deteriorating the music. I have many recordings I’d gladly accept a little blurring to correct poor sound engineering.
I am in love with my Dragonfly Cobalt, which measures poorly. All of the hate for it centers around people who look at graphs to determine if they like something, but have never listened to it. It sounds amazing. My best argument for the Dragonfly Cobalt is that it puts me into the music. When I listen to music with it, I am completely engaged in the music. Not much more you can ask of audio equipment. I pair that with my HD650s and I am good to go.
My Sundara headphones sounded fantastic through the balanced output on a Schiit Jotunheim. However, I sold that and got an Emotiva A-100 and put in the jumper to get full power from the headphone out, and it's 98% as good for less than half the price, plus it powers my speakers too.
My favourite quote you said was in a surround system that you've gotta match the speakers in front of you! I tried to "get" my giant left and right to sound accurate by trying to buy a center channel the same size as my JBL towers for the front channel but,......no. I had to buy a pair of them. How dare a business not sell me a single speaker leaving them with a boat anchor? I could have bought a pair but.................................................................my incredible bullshit meter just kicked in. Here in Australia, we have a company called Revolution. The guy who founded the company started out by saying that he couldn't and wouldn't build a cheap speaker. He started out by taking a few risks and as he had 2 sons, one in audio and one in woodcraft, they started the company and got a great first review here in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia where I live. I was looking for a great center channel and I went to a store complaining that my center channel just didn't cut it. He said "put your biases aside and listen to this unit". I was sold after the first 30 minutes. I asked the DUH question, who made it? It's a kicker. He told me it was an Australian design made here called Revolution. Wow. Just as a I was going to the world market, along came a man who dared to dream. I said how much, I'll take one! 1,200 Australian. When I got home, I was worried that it might be a bit big but it slid in with a few millimetres to spare. I suffer OCD but have been around electronics since I was 4. I'm an Audio/Visual engineer and was a DJ for many years and I'm well aware of my slight loss of hearing but I can still hear very well for a 62 year old. All of my channels are set to 0db except the new center channel which is set to 10db to match it. The microphone that comes with some some surround amps is ridiculous. Just as a joke, I tried using it. My volume levels were all over the place. I love those idiots who think that if their sound gear runs at 100 watts, that they will buy a 200 watt amp to double the SPL. Try 10 to the power of 3 mate. Yep, that's about 1000 watts per channel you'll need to double the volume if you can find speakers to match that power on the domestic market. I own a PrimaLuna tube amp or as we call them, valves here in OZ. It has 6 12AU7s for the pre-amp and 8 KT120 for the output stage. The specs and design of this amp are on the web. I own a Technics SL1200 MK2 turntable and has never been in a club because I bought it brand new. It is fitted with an Ortofon Black catridge
The key word in a few of these "lies" is NEED. Do you NEED to have matching subs or center channel speakers? Nope. 100% you do not NEED to match them. It may, however, make it easier to avoid issues. For the center channel, there's rarely anything that pans across the front such that you would notice a difference between your center and L/R. The best advice for center channels is (if great home theater sound is important to you) just don't skimp. Get a beefy center channel because almost all the dialog and centralized sound effects are going to come from that speaker - i.e. lots of content. For subs, you can certainly run mismatched subs, even ported and sealed at the same time. BUT you should do some testing to make sure that the second sub isn't actually making things worse - because that can very easily happen. You just shouldn't plug in the second sub, plop it anywhere and expect it to be perfect. All the rules about sub placement and room nulls still apply. Using a matching sub takes some of the potential issues away and might make things work easier/better is all.
If you use insane money for ridiculously expensive HI-FI and spend it on concerts in decent concerthals you get right sound from actual musicians and provide them their incomes.
I have observed two reasons why many audiophiles believe these lies: 1. FOMO: they think that if they don't get the more expensive speaker or better DAC they will be missing out on performance and enjoyability. 2. Insurance: they believe they need the more powerful amp or the bigger sub just in case they ever reach the theoretical limits of their system. In reality, most rarely even get near the output capabilities of the equipment they have. In both instances I think it is a case of some on convincing them they need this gear even tho it is more than they can afford, does not fit their room and exceeds the limits of what they will ever need.
I can't find any sound stage or openness pots on my tek scope when I look at the amp output on the scope screen. Would really like to see that opus my mistake, maybe it's that I am using a sine wave. I have never been able to put that darn signal generator right in front of me come to think about it. I always hear the tone either from the left or right speaker.
100%agree! I own a pair of Visaton Pentaton. 99db -1m. And i EQ my 2 Ultimax 18 in 160l CB. 2 Solo 50 2 Solo 20 Built IT 11 Years ago. Still pure Love. Klipsch are great Speakers too. Have a RC 52 4 Times RB81 and 2 RF 61. Love this system so much. And they are not flat 😉 The room Sounds, and your ears hear different.
Hi Randy - how do I explore further? Based on your input, my setup is today: WiiM Mini (24/192 Toslink), Aiyima DAC-A3, Aiyima A07 Pro, Sony SS-CS5, Mackie CR8S-XB, Spotify premium maxed out. I like the results, the setup gives me lots of joy, and seems to fit my room well. I am not experienced, just starting with HiFi Gen 2. Please let me know what to try and where I could go from here. Great channel, thanks, Carlo
Matched Fronts and Center are essential I think. Play pink noise and listen to how much the shift is between those channels, it's more than you think. Granted these days, trying to get people away from using sound bars though is the bigger struggle.
As for speakers....it is all depends what is being fead to it..plus ..if it has modes surround sound mode is important. .or your device has sound modes....I convert an old Vizio sound bar...with my phone and notebook...it sounds great.... no extra speakers...😊...it does also where you place it....the biggest mistake people do... putting the speaker against the wall... same with a TV....you have to give it space for the sound to rom around the room.....each amp or receivers sound different...I played the same song though four different ones...they all sound not the same 😊
I only use balanced because I run my audio cables and power cables together thorough a cable highway with lots of possible emi interference. Without balanced, I can hear my motherboards wifi bleep bloops and clickity static.
The amplifiers I used in the 1980s and 90s where the Carver M500T.. I have four of them they are beautiful and I still use them.. and they could be set at either 40 more 80 more mono
It is fitted with an Ortofon Black cartridge and a Shibata nude stylus. I own a CDJ Pioneer for CDs DUH. It feeds into a pair of Wharfedale towers and just sounds like magic. Cheers from OZ, Andrew
There is so much choice of equipment and for any given price and very few places have them in stock and fewer on demonstration. I bought an amplifier via eBay in 2009 and before bidding I went to the shop where they set it up for me and left me to listen to it. I could have taken in the speakers I was going to use with it as I have done previously in listening to particular components. The shifter of boxes is not going to be able to do this. In some stores with a ceiling three stores high and twenty other systems switched on I can "test" headphones but hardly anything else. There are some dealers and manufacturers like Buchardt allow a 30 or 40 day trial in your own home and if they are not suitable you they will refund everything but shipping. Unless you have everything ready in your system a month is not a lot to get them in to do the testing but you might be able to extend the period. A good dealer will want customers looking for replacements to come back and to be recommended as hi-fi is niche and expensive. In a home theatre it is much easier to set up if the speakers match, particularly if using active or powered speakers without an AV receiver.
In most cases but not all, high powered amps of the same company may sound better because of the extra head room and dynamic range. But there have been cases where a manufacturer actually and perhaps accidentally produced a better sounding lower powered amp than their higher powered offerings. Some examples were from early NAD and earlier Marantz receivers and other companies as well. Good review as always.
Now that was refreshing! I've been doing audio a very long time, and I get really tired of the crap I read and hear on other pages/sites. The measurement guys get on my last nerve, and the purists who say you shouldn't use tone controls are just idiots! And yes, there are some budget priced speakers out there these days that sound great! I just wish you would have addressed speaker wire. I constantly read these guys who think you need oxygen free wire the size of welding cables or your system sucks. Oh, or the super expensive speaker cables they claim sounds better. No, it doesn't.
I just read this after my own lengthy post was made, you are so correct! So much sales BS with interconnects and speaker wires. does anyone truly believe that the size 24 or 26 gauge tinsel leads on a tweeter or midrange give a crap about the wire coming in? wire size matters in relation to current and distance. There is capacitance in wire, and resistance, but it's so negligible until you're running huge distances.
I love the Klipsch Sound, but on many of them, I turn down the treble. Specifically, the 2k to 8k range. Just too bright for me. But I love the way their horns sound with that tweak, especially for home cinema.
I’ve used a JDS Labs Passive 3 band EQ before and it definitely introduced some distortion to the sound. I really wanted it to work but I had to relegate it to the cupboard:(
I have never understood how some people can say that amplifiers do not differ in sound. I have different amps (old and new) and you can hear the difference. That's one reason why I prefer Denon F88-Amp or Yamaha RX-397 to Argon Audio SA1 when it comes to music.
So.. about the balanced cables and when they could be used The electrical grid and its home implementation in my country are not great. Electrical noise can be added to our audio gear for a lot of reasons.. I decided that the next set up I get will be balanced to ¨compensate¨ for the many ways we can get humming and crackling on any kind of audio gear. Cable distances don't get to be a relevant factor.. I finally pulled the trigger last month on a pair of ADAM AUDIO T5V´s and the SMSL C200 (on sale for the same price as the SMSL D-6 minus the headphone amp) It did resolve a crackling noise that a friend of mine has with his Yamaha HS8's in his home office.. Thankfully he is fine with them at the living room of a condo building. At my home.. right now there are no problems.. but they might come back without warning.. My understanding is that most people in USA and Europe will not be exposed to these kind of issues. But I am sure some will be living at older buildings that get similar problems and cannot not be fixed due to exaggerated costs of redoing the electrical installation or at least not until they have a reason to renovate and even then.. it might not be a given that anyone will budget for a sound electrical installation unless they are forced to by law or regulations. @cheapaudioman I have to thank you for putting your first videos.. I have forgotten that I used to have decent sound in 90's and the 00's... but lost that on a move and then forgot about it.. getting a pair of ELAC Uni-fi UB5 & AIYIMA A08 PRO was in the cards for me.. I had to change to Studio equipment due to the issues I mentioned.. Chasing gremlins was not something I was going to do at this point in my life. I could not pic the JNOG2 [J2] from Geshelli Labs since they don't have volume control & remote. If you can please do reviews or Balanced AMPS that can compare to the A08pro so I can come around and get a pair ELAC Uni-fi UB5s once I decide to do a 5.1 surround system. PS: Please do a comparison of Studio Monitor/Subs VS your favorite speakers at similar prices ranges.. There should be more people with similar problems/needs out there.
Marantz PM6007 has tone controls with option to bypass. 45 Watts rms per channel at 8ohm but specified to drive 4ohm speakers too (Ive owned previous model PM6006 for a decade The PM6 series has been best buy many times in UK 👍
I basically have a cheapaudioman system in my living room. Emotiva TA1, CSS Torri, Fluance Rt83 and a IFI phono pre amp. I think this system is really strong for the money. I got a wild hair to order some Klipsch heresey 4s. Yeah, I had to send 3k speakers back because my $375 dollar CSS speakers are so much better. That’s not just my opinion, it was my wife, son, and daughter’s opinion as well. And yes my son moved them all over the room trying to find the sweet spot. Money doesn’t equal better in Cigars or audio apparently.
10:55 If an amp is designed for balanced operation, then it usually sounds better in balanced operation than single ended. With Dacs as well as with Holo Audio Spring Dacs, for example
I have a Holo Audio Spring DAC feeding a Luxman L-590axii, both being fully balanced design of course, and after a few month of a/b testing, I reached the conclusion that I liked the rca connexion better, so much so that I put my AQ Yukon up for sale. Life is full of surprises I guess...
My receiver has treble, bass and loudness controls and I use them. I've tried listening without them, but I didn't get the sound I wanted. We all have different hearing and sound requirements. I like vocal clarity above all else and loudness/tone controls can help highlight that on flat speakers (until you buy new speakers). What's the point of having a pure signal if you don't like it?
I was at my local snooty dealer yesterday and asked to hear the rel t/0, the t/5 and t/7. The guy looked at me and said, "we don't sell the lesser models we only go as low as t/9". I was also looking at speakers so he took me in the B&W room and he plugged some in the 703s to McIntosh MC830s and asked what I'd like to hear. I couldn't wait to be blown away by them, he started playing the song and WOW, the worst speakers I think I'd ever heard! Holy crap, 5 or 6 grand for these? They sounded like mud! So money does not guarantee the best sound. He was soooo offended when I said how disappointed I was and when I asked if they were broken. It was insane how crappy they were.
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Muh feelings are better than measurements!
My definition of high-end audio these days.... a bunch of 60+ year old who can't hear about 7 khz arguing about what they can no longer hear.
This TH-cam channel is 10 times better than any other TH-cam channel, which costs 10 times as much. Randy is balanced, timbre matched while providing tone controlled advice.
He blows the competition out of the Water!
He's also great attached with homemade cables.
Timbre
He's a giant killer.
He sounds like a billion dollar person...
I wish all audiophiles were competent electronics technicians. If they were, all of this nonsense would go away. And manufacturers wouldn't be selling $1200 cables! :)
You are correct, HiFi audio is a broad category, personal choices are subjective. What kinds of music you listen to, what your preferred audio source is and your listening environment will totally influence your component choices. Enjoy what you like how you like is the whole point of the hobby. Like you always say " Binge listen to your music and fill your life with joy."
Its been around 1 year i followed u.
After watching lots of reviews and auditioning some speaker and amps for a month.last week i bought my first setup.
Elac debut reference, audiolab 6000a and NODE.
It suit my music , my room and my sound preference
Thank you Randy!
Great video with great advice 👍. Regarding power, say you have a speaker rated at 85dB @ 1m @ 1W @ 1kHz and you want to play it at 91dB (pretty loud) sitting 3m away from it. Given that each additional 3dB requires doubling of power and every additional meter requires doubling of power, you'll need 16W for 91dB at 3m away. Now that's at 1kHz; add 6dB of headroom for low frequencies (where most of the power goes) and you end up with 64W. And since music is dynamic, an amp outputting 50W rms at the speaker's rated impedance and having 1.2dB of headroom (i.e. an average decent amp) will be enough for typical listening conditions.
Thanks Randy. Audio seems like one of those things that everyone has an opinion and you have to agree with their's. Glad you are here to keep it real.
12:58 - I come from a family of musicians and have had professional musicians around me since I could walk, and I feel pretty confident in saying that MOST professional musicians do not care what your audio setup sounds like. What they care about is you listening on something that actually makes you enjoy their work, and that the quality is good enough that the feeling they are trying to convey comes through. I mean, if you listen to their music on a phone speaker and claim it sounds just as good as them live, thats a bit insulting for obvious reasons, but most musicians care about the music, not your gear.
Resonance is necessary in many ways. The enclosures are tuned in a way that helps make up for any deficiencies in the crossovers and driver designs. Even the most perfect driver will not be flat in response. The enclosures are the main thing that gives the speakers their personality. EQ is used a lot in professional audio, including professional mastering. Anyone saying these are bad things just have no idea how to use them. I agree with all of the points you've made here, and I have worked as an audio engineer.
I ran a mismatched LCR for years and loved it. But after upgrading the L and R last year, all of a sudden the C sounded terrible and I wound up buying the matching C and now it sounds great again.
@@happydogg312 It means you got taken to the bank
by overspending for a "center speaker".
@@fubarnow8907😂😂😂
The center speaker issue is complex. Timbral matching is definitely ideal, but a lot of manufacturer’s “matched” centers sound nothing like the mains anyway.
The easiest solution for me is just giving up on the aesthetics and using a fuckin matched bookshelf as the center 🥸
I had a lad on a forum tell me that you need to spend £1k on speakers because cheap speaker cones can't replicate the dynamic range of an electric guitars.
that's saying only an expensive speaker can correctly replicate the sound of a cheap speaker in a speaker cabinet of a guitar amplifier.
I use two different subs. A Speedwoofer to handle the upper twenties. The sucker is crisp but not pounding in the last increment of bass. My SVS handles only below the range of the Speedwoofer. Pretty impressive results.
TO ME!
Thank you so much for your level measured, sound, and helpful perceptions. You are certainly the most grounded audio reviewer, IMHO. Keep up the great work, my friend.
Thanks, Simon!
Good list of the things that an EQ can (mostly) CORRECT! My BIGGEST pet peeve: NO TAPE MONITOR LOOPS! (For my EQs / SRS/ BBE / Sonic Hologram)
Did not understand “ balanced connection “ until this video . Thanks for that !
Speaker frequency response is properly measured in an anechoic chamber, but actual anechoic chambers are not completely anechoic. None of the rooms in my house are non-resonant with no wall reflections. That affects how any speaker will sound in a room, and chances are that rooms in a house will interact with speakers differently than in the recording studio used for final mixing (which probably was not anechoic either). A bit of eq or tone controls can help. One problem with tone controls is if you use them too much, you can boost some frequencies too much and wind up clipping the next amplification stage on louder passages at those frequencies..
We need 20+ band equalizers. Why are these things gone nowadays?
@@J2I3H Pro audio has them. Also some dsp units.
Tone controls after a studio has done all the mixing and processing shouldn't be needed... but some folks just like their own sound
It's good for the old time musicians that lost most of their high frequencies hearing.
You can always spot them in the music store with the treble know maxed
The lack of flatness in your speakers frequency response is going to be absolutely eclipsed by the lack of flatness in a typical room, no question.
Thanks!
I started distrusting the hifi community when I went over to my friends house and heard his Bose 301 IV's for the first time.
Randy, the King of audio common sense! Talking about tone controls, you left out the " loudness" button, something I always use all the time especially at night.
You're completely right about "matching", or not, center with front speakers: because of not enough room in height, in a cabinet, I use a Bose center, only 3" high, with Paradigm all around. I've lived with this for over 10 years with no issues. It is not my main system but being in a den behind the kitchen it's used daily.
Component power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers can have the same or even lower wattage specs than garden variety 100w receivers and blow them out of the water sq-wise because of slew rate and damping factor. Higher slew rate can improve dynamic speed for transients. Higher damping factor creates better control over the speaker diaphragm's movement. Receivers generally have low specs in both.
Randy you bring up a good point about ruler flat speakers. People should go listen to a ruler flat system before crowning that setup the victor. I've heard such setups and I'm adding my own Harman house curve immediately: (scoop out v-shaoe, little more on top, definitely more on bottom).
This curve or response also correlates with our hearing. We typically have diminishment in the high freq, and we have lower sensitivity to the bass freq.
The common reaction to a completely linear system (DAC, speaker, amp, etc) are adjectives like thin, sterile, lifeless, etc.
A ruler flat speaker with good dispersion can be eq'ed into anything you want it to be. This is objectively superior to a speaker that has lots of "character." But yea, youre still not wrong. if you don't know what you like, utilizing demos/return periods is definitely optimal for learning without wasting.
@@eattoast6378 I hear what you're saying. But that also means you need to apply the EQ and know what you're doing to do so properly. And not forgetting that EQ in the analog domain can be... Messy... So having a speaker with a house sound isn't bad as long as you subjectively sign-off on liking that flavor!
Hook up an oscilloscope to the speaker outputs your amp. Play some music. Crank it up to taste. Check the scope for clipping distortion. You will find that it will have to be severe until it is audible. When the scope shows any amount of clipping distortion, then you'll know you need a more powerful amp.
The interesting part of this is how a reactive speaker affects marginal amplifiers
To go off the "matching subs" topic;
I had a small punchy sub near tv and a 12 inch cheapy in the corner turned down. This was excellent for vocals and thwacks and the larger sub took care of deep weighty stuff.
I am glad there are a few audio places near me! I went to listen to several speakers live! And much to my surprise I walked out with a pair of Klipsch RP600MIIS for $450. They sounded better than Dynaudio Emit10s as well as Focal 806, both of which cost a bit more! Listen live if you you can you won't regret it!
👍Great choice
12:00 Absolutely. I worked for years as a "Radio/TV Engineer." In broadcasting all of the audio is 600 ohms, balanced. The balanced configuration eliminates common-mode noise, and the relatively low Z reduces the influence of stray EM fields. But for short runs, hi-Z & shielded cables are perfectly adequate.
Great video Randy, you aren’t afraid to speak the truth.
My own observations about hifi are:-
1) first and foremost find an honest specialist dealer, someone who cares about music and not just trying to sell you something. Then trust your ears.
2) you don’t need to spend a fortune to get a very pleasant sound- I bought one of my sons an Audio Technica LP120XUSB turntable with a pair of Edifier 1700BT speakers for Christmas which cost about £370 total and it sounds brilliant in his listening room. My streamer is a Bludento BT which was under £50 and again it is very good, not as detailed as vinyl or cd but it is very musical and I do enjoy listening to it for hours at a time.
3) don’t be afraid to buy second hand from such as eBay but it’s better if someone is fairly local so you can collect and make sure it is working. I have bought 2 turntables and 2 pairs of good speakers this way and have saved an absolute fortune.
4) don’t be afraid to try classic Japanese brands. My expensive British pre amp stopped working during the Covid pandemic so to put me on I bought a Technics integrated amp off eBay for £150. It’s brilliant. I am still using it as my main amp 2 years later. I bought a new turntable this year, something that I had wanted for the best part of 50 years and told my dealer all about it. He laughed at first until when he came to install the turntable and actually heard it. He too was blown away. He listens to very expensive systems all day and commented you would have to spend way north of £3K to better it. Praise indeed.
4) you don’t need to spend a fortune on a cartridge. I am now using a Sumiko Pearl MM which is about £130 in the UK. It was recommended by my dealer who gave me it for free. In a good arm and turntable it’s great. 3D soundstage, very detailed and rich. Much better than the expensive AT MC that I used to have. I asked about more expensive cartridges and being honest he said why, you have got an exceptional sounding system as it is. That is why my number one comment above is the most important.
Some good facts there Randy. Me personally I prefer a more linear speaker, I think it helps out when you get home and the Room makes its own adjustments to your frequency response. But I certainly wouldn't say a neutral speaker is better than any other speaker. I've had some Class D and Class G amps, some are better than others...the Elac Alchemy class D sounds fabulous, so good I had bought a 2nd one. But the 2nd one didn't sound as good as the 1st, not bad at all but not as warm. If I didn't already have one I would have thought the 2nd one was how they sound. It made me question some things so I got rid of both of them. I agree with always wanting more power with solid state gear, but I will say I think it's more important that an amp can play strongly down to around 3ohms instead of having gobs of power. Rock on people!
Better if the power doubles from 8 to 4 ohms and doubles again at 2 ohms! Best if is stable down to 1 ohm. Many speakers have impedance curves that dip between 1 and 2 ohms in the bass and have fried amplifiers in the process, even at moderate volumes. Higher impedance speakers are easy to drive and do not need this capability. So many people look only at nominal impedance rather than impedance curves with frequency.
@@36karpatoruski yeah I completely agree with you on this. It's pretty hard to find a newer amp (cheap or mid-fi) that totally double downs on wattage at 4ohms these days..much less 2ohms lol. But what you said is something people newer to the hobby need to be aware of. Most speakers today seem to be plagued with lower sensitivity and swinging impedances, especially budget speakers, but the budget amps are not always built to support this. Especially the real cheap AVR's.
Great video with sage advice! Class D depends all on the implementation in my opinion. As an example, active speakers all rely on class D amplification. Bang & Olufsen with their Beolabs, Klipsch with the 5's, 7's and 9's and so on. I own and use several systems, some with A+B amplifiers and some with active speakers, in my home. Among them I have a pair of B&O Beolab Penta mk3, and they have all the characteristics of a natural sounding high-end system. Just sharing my thoughts here. Enjoy the music everyone 🙏🙂
The only reason to have flat speakers is if you're doing mixing or mastering. If you're not a mixing or mastering engineer, it's not that important. You can also use REW to correct the frequency response if you want to go that far. Acoustic treatment will do a lot more for you than a completely flat speaker
Listen to the Acoustic Research AR9 speakers, you will change your opinion
Hey RANDY, this video was from a year ago. Don’t know if you’ll see this, but thanks for serving in the Navy, and working in those hot conditions down below in the ship! Appreciate you will ask you Audio questions sometime. Keep up the good work!
Wow, this is amazing. A hi-fi revere responded back. I’ve never had that except from Steve Gutenberg .👌😎🤙
Oh Joey, Gee responded back to me also, once keep up the good work!
Back in the mid 60s when I got into audio, the common thought was that all things being equal the amp with the most power will sound better. I compared a 50 watt SAE amp ( which at time was one of the best amps in audio) to their 200 watt amp. The difference was staggering. I returned the 50 watt amp and bought the 200 watt one. Yeah, wonders of wonders, they let you trial them at home, and you didn't have to drive up in a Ferrari, with an entourage before they'd get off their butts to help you, like nowadays in Ontario, Canada.
All amps have their own personality, often the value of components such as capacitors and resistors will be the driving factor more than the active components. Depending on your speakers, higher power amps can definitely give more punch. It's great to have a listen at home and be able to send one back if it's not quite right. I wish companies were more about the customer and less about the dollar these days too, but unfortunately it has changed to being about the dollar in so many cases.
Regarding power. Two amps from the same manufacturer may sound similar, and the power makes a difference, but I have gone the opposite to you at times, going for a lower power amp that just sounded sweeter than a similar high powered one into my chosen speakers. It is very subjective. I don't believe there is a right and wrong answer. The perfect amplifier and speaker combination is the one that sounds amazing to your own ears. :)
@@EsotericArctos "...going for a lower power amp that just sounded sweeter...".
Was that from solid state or class D to a tube amp?
🔈🔉🔊
^^ "get off their butts to help you, like nowadays in Ontario, Canada" ^^ Customer service was valued by the retailer decades ago, but not today - almost anywhere on the planet. Today's retailers and staff must feel the folks walking in the building owe them something just for walking inside the store. What ever you do don't expect or ask them to "go the extra mile". All the above being said, per my experience Emotiva and SVS do all they can for their customers.
@@welderfixer the (good) stories I heard about SVS was a contributing factor in buying a PB1000 Pro last year.
Not defending bad customer service. Speaking as a former small business owner, it gets very tiring to help a customer and then find out they are just using my store to decide what to buy on the internet.
The way you explained the balanced connection is excellent. I have never liked balanced connectors.
Cheapaudioman at his best. Randy. You NEED to interview a professional studio recording and mix engineer who works on popular music. You probably don't want to see how sausage is made, but it might explain why reproduction isn't the beginning and creates no end of variables in hi-fi.
Blame the labels. They want everything to sound like the last "hit" and seem to target car audio. All the claims of great dynamic range for digital media have gone out the window.
Hey @cheapaudioman Randy. I’ve hit on a cost conscious speaker buying approach that you and your viewers might appreciate…
1. Pick out a component I’d like to buy new
2. Research to narrow down past models to the ones that perform well and are still in stock in a few places.
3. Buy the new speaker set for around 40% the price of the latest model.
I bought a pair of new Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 for £100. The latest (12.1) cost £249. It’s a pretty good strat I reckon! :)
Tone controls are mandatory. Not all recordings are equal, not all rooms are equal. Sometimes I want more bass, sometimes less. Sometimes I want more treble, sometimes less. The lack of tone controls is a way for the manufacturers to save money.
Personally, I pretty much bypass them. Only exception is occasionally turning on loudness.
@@hermanknief Results may vary of course. Yes I do occasionally use the loudness too.
Nice video. Good stuff. With receiver (amp) power the only exception I have is when playing records. The internal phono does not boost the signal enough so you end up running the receiver at 75% power or more to get a decent volume. Not having a good sound is also an issue. The solution was to get an external preamp, a cheapo Chinese made one!, that had a gain boost before feeding the signal to the receiver. My audio set up is not the cheapest but far, far from expensive too. Selecting a preamp for my record player has been the most difficult thing to do cheaply! It has been a can of warms to say the least!
The Marantz PM 6006 integrated amp has both source direct and tone controls as well as a loudness button. Lets you decide for yourself what sounds best. Also allows you to change your mind.
I use my decade old Marantz PM6006 (my number 2 system) source direct for clarity from a Rotel Tribute cd player When I was younger I would increase the bass but my ( also 1 year old) Mission QX2 mk2 stand mounts in a narrow dining room generates a surprising amount of bass 🔊 🎶🙂
Looks like I’ll have plenty of opportunity to chime in with my own take on each of these points; the best implementation of “loudness compensation” I personally experienced was the variable loudness feature on Yamaha CA & CR product series starting in the mid ‘70s. It paid more attention to the Fletcher-Munson curves than any other mainstream product on the market then, and perhaps even now?
I was in the retail business at the time, and they were a revelation compared to the Marantz, Sony, and even Fisher; and don’t hate me for it, but I was never a fan of the McIntosh.
Agree with your statement about speakers measurement being a ruse. I do believe that regardless of the on axis response that the off-axis response is very relevant to the speaker design and IRL room listening experience
My guess is why EQs fell out of favor back in the day... Because the sliders started collecting dust and then would make popping noises when moved. Those slider switches were notorious for that. IMO that would definitely take away from the experience when operating a (expensive) HiFi system.
I like to start with the bass control flat and then adjust the treble if needed. A sub is the last thing and I may not even turn it on.
Hi. @ 1: the measurements are made by 1m and 1W but how they perform by 3m and 10 W i your room , is written in the stars. Point11: it looks fancy with the equipment placed between the speakers, but the right placement is in the " operating range" of your fingers for tone control depending on desire and mood ( how i miss the bass and treble knob in the modern car stereo ! ).
My Pioneer Elite receiver I bought a few years ago is Class D and I think it works very well. I would agree that it can be analytical sounding but not thin and, to my ears, not harsh at all. And it has gobs of power compared to draw, it runs cool and can stay on all day without heat buildup. I could have gone conventional Class AB, but it ended up being the proper tool for the job for me. Peace
I miss bass boost and/or loudness control on modern receivers/pre-amps. Having that button eliminated the need and sometimes hassle of having to use an equalizer. Getting that extra 10 db bass boost @ 100 hz made a big positive difference to the sound. I find that as long as your fronts go down to around 40 hz or lower then you don't need a second sub for your HT in a small to medium sized room. I find additional subs benefit those who have odd shaped overtly large listening rooms. I too prefer lots of headroom when it comes to amp power. I find analog gear like turntables and cassette decks benefit from the added power.
One can buy 16 Band Equalizers or better.
I have gone thru 3 Denon receivers in the last 20+ years. They have all had bass/treble controls. My listening room is about 15X20. I started with one sub, but got much better results with 2. I am sure my receiver is happy not having to drive the bass.
A tip for shoppers- search EPROJECT youtube channel to hear amps and speakers compared. My favorite affordable speakers were Elac dbr62 and Yamaha 8" powered studio monitor. They sound almost identicle to me. But I have been using Yamaha products forever. Shocking my choice is, yes? Thanks again CAM. Your music tags never blow me out of my chair like some reviewers... No names 🤖
Great video. I design and build my own speakers, and they don't measure flat. The speakers in the recording studios don't measure flat. You can take 10 albums and if you adjusted a 7 band equalizer so each one sounded basically the same, you would come up with at least 5 different eq settings. I adjusted my stereo for a life-like sound, then measured it (in room), and I had a 12db boost in the 40-100hz range, a 3db boost at around 10khz, and a small dip in the 2-4khz range. And everyone that listened to it, loved it and wondered why it sounded so good compared to their system.
Every youtube reviewer gets this wrong about speaker sensitivity and speaker amp requierments. The ”dB” spec value of a speaker is measured with a 1khz signal, that’s pretty easy to drive and doesn’t require alot of power. With a lower frequency signal like 60hz on the other hand, the speaker will need alot more power to reach the same dB. There’s ALOT more to this but that’s an easy way to understand it. Don’t worry tho CAM you’re in good company, even Paul McGowan of PS Audio seemed confused by this.
Paul sells 12.5k usd cables and literal 4k usd paperweights proven and tested to do nothing. Hes not a great example.
@@eattoast6378 Selling is one thing. Business is business. And Paul is a magnificient dude and a great source of knowledge.
@@tuojisprotesiu Hes literally a terrible person and lies regularly to defend products he knows are snake oil. Anyone under his spell is an embarrassment to the audio community.
@@eattoast6378let people buy what they want to buy, this is a luxurious hobby to start.
@@eattoast6378BS Audio!😂
I don’t care what anybody says. I like tone controls. With my Klipsch KLF 20s, the dual ten inch woofers are shy without some bass boost. With bass eq they kick hard and clean!
I enjoyed this video. For me it had great entertainment value and addressed issues in a style and language that most general watchers would appreciate. A great opener for light debate and subjective opinion🙂😉🤔
Late to the party, but the matching subs point is SO TRUE. I have a little 6" Velodyne that's my main subwoofer for general listening. Its small driver makes it extremely nimble and fantastic for music, and while it has fairly good extension for its size, it's a six inch driver. It absolutely needs help on the low end. So a 10" NHT with the crossover set to about 50hz helps give the really low end some solid reinforcement. It may not be a traditionally "correct" configuration, but it sounds great. Fast, and low enough for music, and together, play way down there for movie effects. Don't forget to HAVE FUN with your audio equipment folks. Fidelity and resolution are great, but ultimately whatever puts a big idiot grin on your face is the right way to do it.
After you get the best mechanical speaker and room adjustments and settings, EQ can be the finishing touch. Too much always creates phase shifting that can be heard. Digital EQ is a pain in the ass since the headroom is really unforgiving. I have abandoned all my affordable tube gear because they lack power. I use 100 watts plus SS amps now with phenomenal results, but I use only a tiny fraction of the rated power. Makes no sense, but it's tested to be true over and over again. Recently I ran some experiments with single versus twin subs, and single summed bass output and l/r separate signals. I will never go back to summed or LFE signals for 2 channel audio. But that's a discussion for another day. Thanks Randy, good tips as always.
One of the biggest Hi-Fi lies that I used to believe was the idea that buying more expensive equipment resulted in better sound. you know I'm not going to make that a blanket statement for everyone and everyone's taste but I will say a lot of it is subjective and me personally as a listener and as a lover of music I've often found that budget pieces are sonically more to my liking than high-end expensive esoteric pieces.
there are a few reasons why I suppose you know I'm not knocking expensive gear and I'm certainly not suggesting that expensive gear isn't worth it because a lot of times in addition to increased sound quality you get a tremendous level of increased build quality.
Plus one aspect of budget gear that I love and that includes speakers or turntables or amplifiers or whatever it might be is the fact that I don't worry about it as much. I feel like times that I've had five or $6,000 speakers and $10,000 amplifiers and those sorts of products I feel like I'm constantly fussing about them. I'm constantly worrying about upgrading my interconnects or oh man I really need to get that new expensive speaker cable to maximize my system. whereby when I have a budget piece I don't feel the need to throw $2,000 speaker cables on a $400 amplifier.
Plus the other thing like I said is $1,000 or less basically when it comes to hi-fi gets you 90% of the way there in terms of everything that you could possibly want. spending any more than that yes you can get that last 10% but it's going to cost you and at the end of the day it's really not going to make that much of a difference.
it's been said numerous times but don't waste your money on gear go out and waste your money on music and you'll be far happier for it, I know I am.
another view I have is people often talk about what a recording should sound like or what the artist intended. I don't necessarily follow that belief or let's say the belief that a product should exhibit a characteristic in such a way as to resemble whatever particular idea of a recording is or was.
my personal belief is that music is best enjoyed as it sounds to you the listener, additionally I'm of the opinion especially when listening to older recordings, stuff from the 50 60 70s, that it is paramount to try to enjoy the music in the same way that the original listeners would have done so. like for example when Woolly bully was released and it was a hit song of course, what equipment where people listening to the recording and enjoying it, what were they using in the day and how are they using it?
I think more particularly by doing it in this way you recapture the original magic of the particular recording. I mean I've got to restored 1978 pioneer receiver and I've also got the sort of matching pioneer speakers made the same year. And when I sit down and turn it on and listen to it I feel a sense of jubilation come over me with the knowledge that what I'm hearing is exactly what somebody would have heard in 1978, so when I put on Van Halen I know that I'm enjoying it to its utmost maximum in all its enthralling glory and it's captivating rapture in the same way that occurred had somebody went down and just picked up the brand new released first album and took it home and threw it on the turntable.
Fascinating point you have made! I thought I was the only person on earth who has an older system just to play "old" music on. I recently bought a 1980's cassette deck (!) to go with my beautiful DCM Timeframe 500 speakers from the same era. I pop in a Madonna tape and think to myself "wow... This is what I heard when I was 20 years old" You know what? It still sounds good! It's the idea of it all.. like going back in time.
You are so right, speaker output at any given frequency is inconsequential to me - what one needs to do is to listen to different brands of speakers to determine whose transducers sound the best to you. In other words, which speaker manufactures woofers have the fasted response, the most texture and definition and if this companies tweeters have the ambience, air and detail that you like the best .
Nice one Randy CAM, here's my 2 cents worth; my current 7.2 set up incIudes; a second hand Sony STR-1050 receiver , 4 second hand Wharfedale Diamond 9.5 towers for FL, FR, SL, & SR, with matching 9CS, and 2 newish Onkyo 4800 towers that I use for rear surrounds, and 3 different ported subs; a new 10" Jamo a newish 10" Yamaha and a 20yr old 12" Sony, it takes a bit of bollocking around to set them up but sounds OK to me, Never mind REW.
Btw the saying is; "Bollocks" as in; "Never mind the Bollocks" (who killed Bamby) not; never mind the "Bullocks" unless you're a Matador or maybe an Amish Cowboy, then it's; "never mind the Bullocks, Bollocks Woody, have some fresh cream"
When watching my Bulldog lick his Bollocks, my mate says; wish I could do that.
He's a good dog, I said, give him a bone to chew on, he'll probably let you.
Some great points in this video. As my set up was originally for radio production some of the things I have may not be a typical set up. I noticed an improvement with upgrading interconnect cables and that was with a rubbish amplifier and speakers. After getting as much onto balanced audio this did make slight improvement which I could hear from the start. From turntable to preamp to DI box which then feeds into my mixer which then goes to a monitor amp or sound capture card. It's a very long signal path and hence the less noise the better.
While I agree that speakers do not have to measure perfectly flat (flat is usually slopped anyway 😁) - but it is one way of having a rough understanding of a speaker before you buy it and crucially I think a good measured speaker can usually take DSP well which then means you can really change it to sound the way you want.
So I would love to see if you can start to look at DSP (e.g. MiniDSP)? We despertable need 'cheap' DSP solutions. I personally think its more important that spending a fortune on a DAC.
this kind of videos, the reality check ones are the best. I always catch myself dreaming about that damn RME ADI2 just to realise how much fun I'm having with my fathers Revox from the '90 and an apple dongle
I too dreamed about the RME ADI-2 Dac and kept buying cheaper ones with way fewer features and inferior quality. Found one on ebay with the original AKM chip new in sealed box for way less than retail. I have never heard my system sound so accurate and still musical. The built-in parametric eq with custom named presets allows me to have an eq curve for each pair of headphones by name and to have eq curves for my main speakers, night mode, movie, game, etc. Excellent headphone amp and it is a great preamplifier with xlr outputs as well. Feeding it from my Bluesound Node 3 with usb input and zero issues unlike the ChiFi dacs I used. I did like the SMSL SU9 balanced dac's sound, but it is outclassed by the RME feature set and build quality. End game for me!
I got some headphones that were more flat. I was honestly kind of annoyed by having to EQ that out because I felt the same way as you. Midrange was in my face, and the highs and lows were boring.
Now, they are great in their clarity. That was definitely an upgrade. And I don’t only use them for music. Now days, I mainly use them for gaming. So that clarity became the more important factor.
Personally, I like when a speaker has more emphasis in the lows. Guess I never got over my dubstep days. I’m a bit of a bass head. I don’t like when mids and highs get utterly muddy (like with preset “bass-boost” EQ’s) but I do care more about base response than perfectly clear highs. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I’ve damaged my high range hearing, so I can’t even hear the difference in clarity up there anyway.
There are plenty of crappy class AB amps on the market, but no one blames their topology as the source of their shortcomings. I think the time has come to stop saying class D is crappy as a topology and recognize that amp makers have some responsibility for making better use of the technology. There are very highly regarded class D amps on the market from NAD, Technics, PS Audio, Rogue, HiFi Rose, Bel Canto, and others. If more budget friendly manufacturers can’t make better class D amps that’s on them and their choice of architecture and components, not on the topology of the amp.
I agree
@@garhpdI'll second that.
Interesting video and I always appreciate ideas, whether I agree with them or not, that stimulate thinking about specific things. I agree that amplifiers do not sound the same and I would like to suggest that when talking about the sound of amplifiers that it can only be in the context of how that amplifier pairs with certain transducers known as speakers. In other words, connecting different speakers to an amplifier will change the characteristics of that amplifier. In a way the speakers become a component of the amplifier. Some amplifiers may sound best when producing higher wattage than lower wattage and thus sound better using less efficient speakers. Other amplifiers may fall apart when driven hard but sound wonderful with relatively efficient speakers. Thoughts?
Won’t go into a lengthy dialogue and expounded my own “credentials” accumulated in over 60 years in the hobby😉, but would mildly disagree with Randy on one point - i.e. the timbral matching of the front row of speakers in a home theatre system. As a firm believer in the centre channel’s importance, I would always endeavour for the front row three to be from the same maker and product series, as in mainstream commercial products with wide product ranges there can be significant sonic differences among them. Of course, that’s exactly the type of minutiae that us still recovering audiophiles seek out to justify our history of wasted money🫣.
As a well balanced surround system can leave much of the heavy lifting in the lower 2 1/2 or so octaves to the LFE/sub channel(s), that front row three can be small bookshelf/monitor types.
And as a final note, not only are not all classD amps cut from the same cloth, the same can be said for class A, AB, or any of the flavours of vacuum tube designs- regardless of the power level, or thickness of the champagne gold anodized front panels.
edited for typos and hopefully, logic
Interesting about amps playing better sound if pushed harder by way of lower sensitivity rating on speakers. No clue his subtle it is. I just use a super old akai receiver cuz it was recapped and looks sexy. But can it power 86 dB rated elac speakers efficiently? No clue so it takes months to make good stab in the dark decisions. It takes comparison which I don’t have regarding amps. It’s all such a racket really!
Enjoyed the video very much. Thank-you!
And if you do have some hearing loss (like me), tone controls / an equalizer will allow you to boost the frequencies that your diminished hearing may be having some difficulty hearing.
If any dealer stood over my shoulder and tried to make me listen to 'Hotel California' I'd probably deck him 😆
Well, unless you really like HC. 😂 For sure you need to listen to music you like and are very familiar with.
One of the most annoying things is companies over rating their AV receivers and under rating their integrated and power amplifiers
Two disagreements, at least the ones where I paid attention.
RCA vs XLR: Go with balanced every single time if you can afford. Balanced is almost an insurance against ground loops, faint background noise for high efficiency speakers. Matters the most if you have tube gear. That length story you gave is less than half the story...
Eq and soundstage: Signal amplitude and phase are used to place an instrument in a place. Say, cymbals are behind the left speaker and if you jack up the treble then cymbal will be brought forward in the stage. If you like that go for it...
Have you ever done any blind A/B testing between amplifiers? I'd like to see you hear power amp differences.
This test has be done by many many people. All tone controls on given equipment set to flat, same speakers and same measured volume.... yes you can hear the difference between amplifiers. Compare a Marantz to a Yamaha, they sound very different, better or worse is completely subjective.
@@ericingram7864 Do you have any links? With the flat frequency response and low distortion of these amplifiers I still think it's a 50/50 guess unless you are picking out of say 5 amps in a comparison and picking the right ones every time. I'll try to look some up.
I would agree that trying to listen to speakers is basically meaningless from my experience. When I was looking for speakers I found that a local Best Buy had a Magnolia showroom with a bunch of high end speakers I was interested in. I tried listening to them but what I found was that although they had the speakers, the people setting them up frequently didn't know what they were doing. Speaker placements were wonky, several speakers had damaged drivers, they didn't' run them with equipment that I would use, and sometimes only one of a pair of speakers would work at all. I finally made a blind purchase off recommendations and was lucky to get something I really like.
Tone controls add stages to an analog preamps signal path and while not ruining the sound will deteriorate the detail and transparency. Now, with quality dsp, tone and a multitude of other adjustments can be achieved without loss. Bypassing tone controls always shows an audible improvement in sound quality. Then the sound’s tonal snafus would be adjusted with room corrections. In an analog system any tone stages are added serially so any distortions are added. Notice how many self powered speakers can be altered to correct room resonance without deteriorating the music. I have many recordings I’d gladly accept a little blurring to correct poor sound engineering.
I am in love with my Dragonfly Cobalt, which measures poorly. All of the hate for it centers around people who look at graphs to determine if they like something, but have never listened to it. It sounds amazing. My best argument for the Dragonfly Cobalt is that it puts me into the music. When I listen to music with it, I am completely engaged in the music. Not much more you can ask of audio equipment. I pair that with my HD650s and I am good to go.
I truly appreciate your channel and I agree with everything you said in this particular video. 🔊🖖🏼
My Sundara headphones sounded fantastic through the balanced output on a Schiit Jotunheim. However, I sold that and got an Emotiva A-100 and put in the jumper to get full power from the headphone out, and it's 98% as good for less than half the price, plus it powers my speakers too.
My favourite quote you said was in a surround system that you've gotta match the speakers in front of you! I tried to "get" my giant left and right to sound accurate by trying to buy a center channel the same size as my JBL towers for the front channel but,......no. I had to buy a pair of them. How dare a business not sell me a single speaker leaving them with a boat anchor? I could have bought a pair but.................................................................my incredible bullshit meter just kicked in. Here in Australia, we have a company called Revolution. The guy who founded the company started out by saying that he couldn't and wouldn't build a cheap speaker. He started out by taking a few risks and as he had 2 sons, one in audio and one in woodcraft, they started the company and got a great first review here in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia where I live. I was looking for a great center channel and I went to a store complaining that my center channel just didn't cut it. He said "put your biases aside and listen to this unit". I was sold after the first 30 minutes. I asked the DUH question, who made it? It's a kicker. He told me it was an Australian design made here called Revolution. Wow. Just as a I was going to the world market, along came a man who dared to dream. I said how much, I'll take one! 1,200 Australian. When I got home, I was worried that it might be a bit big but it slid in with a few millimetres to spare. I suffer OCD but have been around electronics since I was 4. I'm an Audio/Visual engineer and was a DJ for many years and I'm well aware of my slight loss of hearing but I can still hear very well for a 62 year old. All of my channels are set to 0db except the new center channel which is set to 10db to match it. The microphone that comes with some some surround amps is ridiculous. Just as a joke, I tried using it. My volume levels were all over the place. I love those idiots who think that if their sound gear runs at 100 watts, that they will buy a 200 watt amp to double the SPL. Try 10 to the power of 3 mate. Yep, that's about 1000 watts per channel you'll need to double the volume if you can find speakers to match that power on the domestic market. I own a PrimaLuna tube amp or as we call them, valves here in OZ. It has 6 12AU7s for the pre-amp and 8 KT120 for the output stage. The specs and design of this amp are on the web. I own a Technics SL1200 MK2 turntable and has never been in a club because I bought it brand new. It is fitted with an Ortofon Black catridge
The key word in a few of these "lies" is NEED. Do you NEED to have matching subs or center channel speakers? Nope. 100% you do not NEED to match them. It may, however, make it easier to avoid issues.
For the center channel, there's rarely anything that pans across the front such that you would notice a difference between your center and L/R. The best advice for center channels is (if great home theater sound is important to you) just don't skimp. Get a beefy center channel because almost all the dialog and centralized sound effects are going to come from that speaker - i.e. lots of content. For subs, you can certainly run mismatched subs, even ported and sealed at the same time. BUT you should do some testing to make sure that the second sub isn't actually making things worse - because that can very easily happen. You just shouldn't plug in the second sub, plop it anywhere and expect it to be perfect. All the rules about sub placement and room nulls still apply. Using a matching sub takes some of the potential issues away and might make things work easier/better is all.
If you use insane money for ridiculously expensive HI-FI and spend it on concerts in decent concerthals you get right sound from actual musicians and provide them their incomes.
I have observed two reasons why many audiophiles believe these lies:
1. FOMO: they think that if they don't get the more expensive speaker or better DAC they will be missing out on performance and enjoyability.
2. Insurance: they believe they need the more powerful amp or the bigger sub just in case they ever reach the theoretical limits of their system. In reality, most rarely even get near the output capabilities of the equipment they have.
In both instances I think it is a case of some on convincing them they need this gear even tho it is more than they can afford, does not fit their room and exceeds the limits of what they will ever need.
I can't find any sound stage or openness pots on my tek scope when I look at the amp output on the scope screen. Would really like to see that opus my mistake, maybe it's that I am using a sine wave.
I have never been able to put that darn signal generator right in front of me come to think about it. I always hear the tone either from the left or right speaker.
100%agree! I own a pair of Visaton Pentaton. 99db -1m.
And i EQ my 2 Ultimax 18 in 160l CB.
2 Solo 50
2 Solo 20
Built IT 11 Years ago. Still pure Love.
Klipsch are great Speakers too.
Have a RC 52 4 Times RB81 and 2 RF 61.
Love this system so much.
And they are not flat 😉
The room Sounds, and your ears hear different.
Hi Randy - how do I explore further? Based on your input, my setup is today: WiiM Mini (24/192 Toslink), Aiyima DAC-A3, Aiyima A07 Pro, Sony SS-CS5, Mackie CR8S-XB, Spotify premium maxed out. I like the results, the setup gives me lots of joy, and seems to fit my room well. I am not experienced, just starting with HiFi Gen 2. Please let me know what to try and where I could go from here. Great channel, thanks, Carlo
Matched Fronts and Center are essential I think. Play pink noise and listen to how much the shift is between those channels, it's more than you think. Granted these days, trying to get people away from using sound bars though is the bigger struggle.
Soundbars are great though
@@crispezz They can be.
As for speakers....it is all depends what is being fead to it..plus ..if it has modes surround sound mode is important. .or your device has sound modes....I convert an old Vizio sound bar...with my phone and notebook...it sounds great.... no extra speakers...😊...it does also where you place it....the biggest mistake people do... putting the speaker against the wall... same with a TV....you have to give it space for the sound to rom around the room.....each amp or receivers sound different...I played the same song though four different ones...they all sound not the same 😊
I only use balanced because I run my audio cables and power cables together thorough a cable highway with lots of possible emi interference. Without balanced, I can hear my motherboards wifi bleep bloops and clickity static.
The amplifiers I used in the 1980s and 90s where the Carver M500T.. I have four of them they are beautiful and I still use them.. and they could be set at either 40 more 80 more mono
It is fitted with an Ortofon Black cartridge and a Shibata nude stylus. I own a CDJ Pioneer for CDs DUH. It feeds into a pair of Wharfedale towers and just sounds like magic. Cheers from OZ, Andrew
There is so much choice of equipment and for any given price and very few places have them in stock and fewer on demonstration.
I bought an amplifier via eBay in 2009 and before bidding I went to the shop where they set it up for me and left me to listen to it. I could have taken in the speakers I was going to use with it as I have done previously in listening to particular components. The shifter of boxes is not going to be able to do this. In some stores with a ceiling three stores high and twenty other systems switched on I can "test" headphones but hardly anything else. There are some dealers and manufacturers like Buchardt allow a 30 or 40 day trial in your own home and if they are not suitable you they will refund everything but shipping. Unless you have everything ready in your system a month is not a lot to get them in to do the testing but you might be able to extend the period. A good dealer will want customers looking for replacements to come back and to be recommended as hi-fi is niche and expensive.
In a home theatre it is much easier to set up if the speakers match, particularly if using active or powered speakers without an AV receiver.
In most cases but not all, high powered amps of the same company may sound better because of the extra head room and dynamic range. But there have been cases where a manufacturer actually and perhaps accidentally produced a better sounding lower powered amp than their higher powered offerings. Some examples were from early NAD and earlier Marantz receivers and other companies as well. Good review as always.
Now that was refreshing! I've been doing audio a very long time, and I get really tired of the crap I read and hear on other pages/sites. The measurement guys get on my last nerve, and the purists who say you shouldn't use tone controls are just idiots! And yes, there are some budget priced speakers out there these days that sound great! I just wish you would have addressed speaker wire. I constantly read these guys who think you need oxygen free wire the size of welding cables or your system sucks. Oh, or the super expensive speaker cables they claim sounds better. No, it doesn't.
I just read this after my own lengthy post was made, you are so correct! So much sales BS with interconnects and speaker wires. does anyone truly believe that the size 24 or 26 gauge tinsel leads on a tweeter or midrange give a crap about the wire coming in? wire size matters in relation to current and distance. There is capacitance in wire, and resistance, but it's so negligible until you're running huge distances.
I love the Klipsch Sound, but on many of them, I turn down the treble. Specifically, the 2k to 8k range. Just too bright for me. But I love the way their horns sound with that tweak, especially for home cinema.
I’ve used a JDS Labs Passive 3 band EQ before and it definitely introduced some distortion to the sound.
I really wanted it to work but I had to relegate it to the cupboard:(
I have never understood how some people can say that amplifiers do not differ in sound. I have different amps (old and new) and you can hear the difference.
That's one reason why I prefer Denon F88-Amp or Yamaha RX-397 to Argon Audio SA1 when it comes to music.
So.. about the balanced cables and when they could be used
The electrical grid and its home implementation in my country are not great.
Electrical noise can be added to our audio gear for a lot of reasons..
I decided that the next set up I get will be balanced to ¨compensate¨ for the many ways we can get humming and crackling on any kind of audio gear. Cable distances don't get to be a relevant factor..
I finally pulled the trigger last month on a pair of ADAM AUDIO T5V´s and the SMSL C200 (on sale for the same price as the SMSL D-6 minus the headphone amp)
It did resolve a crackling noise that a friend of mine has with his Yamaha HS8's in his home office.. Thankfully he is fine with them at the living room of a condo building.
At my home.. right now there are no problems.. but they might come back without warning..
My understanding is that most people in USA and Europe will not be exposed to these kind of issues. But I am sure some will be living at older buildings that get similar problems and cannot not be fixed due to exaggerated costs of redoing the electrical installation or at least not until they have a reason to renovate and even then.. it might not be a given that anyone will budget for a sound electrical installation unless they are forced to by law or regulations.
@cheapaudioman
I have to thank you for putting your first videos.. I have forgotten that I used to have decent sound in 90's and the 00's... but lost that on a move and then forgot about it.. getting a pair of ELAC Uni-fi UB5 & AIYIMA A08 PRO was in the cards for me.. I had to change to Studio equipment due to the issues I mentioned.. Chasing gremlins was not something I was going to do at this point in my life.
I could not pic the JNOG2 [J2] from Geshelli Labs since they don't have volume control & remote.
If you can please do reviews or Balanced AMPS that can compare to the A08pro so I can come around and get a pair ELAC Uni-fi UB5s once I decide to do a 5.1 surround system.
PS: Please do a comparison of Studio Monitor/Subs VS your favorite speakers at similar prices ranges.. There should be more people with similar problems/needs out there.
What's a balanced connector to a speaker 🔊 🤔
I’ve noticed that a lot of amps are not coming with tone controls. I’m looking for a new amp currently and will not buy one without them.
You can add an EQ if you want one that bad.
Marantz PM6007 has tone controls with option to bypass.
45 Watts rms per channel at 8ohm but specified to drive 4ohm speakers too
(Ive owned previous model PM6006
for a decade The PM6 series has been best buy many times in UK 👍
@@andrewbrazier9664 I will definitely check that out thank you.
@@YouSoundButtHurt I have been considering this option.
@@darthbane4980 Great, check out Schiit, they have some really nice EQs.
I basically have a cheapaudioman system in my living room. Emotiva TA1, CSS Torri, Fluance Rt83 and a IFI phono pre amp. I think this system is really strong for the money. I got a wild hair to order some Klipsch heresey 4s. Yeah, I had to send 3k speakers back because my $375 dollar CSS speakers are so much better. That’s not just my opinion, it was my wife, son, and daughter’s opinion as well. And yes my son moved them all over the room trying to find the sweet spot. Money doesn’t equal better in Cigars or audio apparently.
If that's a movie review sample @ 10:49 count me in, you nailed it.
10:55 If an amp is designed for balanced operation, then it usually sounds better in balanced operation than single ended. With Dacs as well as with Holo Audio Spring Dacs, for example
I have a Holo Audio Spring DAC feeding a Luxman L-590axii, both being fully balanced design of course, and after a few month of a/b testing, I reached the conclusion that I liked the rca connexion better, so much so that I put my AQ Yukon up for sale. Life is full of surprises I guess...
@@yantrussart6584 The Yukon is a bad cable i didnt like that airy hollow sound
Great information Randy! All of it!!! 👍
My receiver has treble, bass and loudness controls and I use them. I've tried listening without them, but I didn't get the sound I wanted.
We all have different hearing and sound requirements. I like vocal clarity above all else and loudness/tone controls can help highlight that on flat speakers (until you buy new speakers). What's the point of having a pure signal if you don't like it?
I was at my local snooty dealer yesterday and asked to hear the rel t/0, the t/5 and t/7. The guy looked at me and said, "we don't sell the lesser models we only go as low as t/9". I was also looking at speakers so he took me in the B&W room and he plugged some in the 703s to McIntosh MC830s and asked what I'd like to hear. I couldn't wait to be blown away by them, he started playing the song and WOW, the worst speakers I think I'd ever heard! Holy crap, 5 or 6 grand for these? They sounded like mud! So money does not guarantee the best sound. He was soooo offended when I said how disappointed I was and when I asked if they were broken. It was insane how crappy they were.
Wow only ten watts! I wonder what my receiver pulls from the wall when in use.