What do you guys think? I think I prefer the Lightroom photo raw, straight out of camera, but I actually prefer the ability to customize the color and edits in the image more in darktable. When I factor in the monthly cost of Lightroom, it gives darktable an advantage in my book!
The new scene referred workflow is quite good out of the gate...it uses filmic not the base curve as most base curves produce color shifts and often can blow out the highlights....it also adds default exposure and can be set to use any exposure compensation that has been dialed in....go to preferences if you are on the latest version and try scene-referred to see how that looks out of the box...if it is a little bit dark just dial in more exposure or you can activate in the options of filmic to bring back the middle gray slider and just drop it until the image looks good...if you use scene referred, add lens corrections, chrome aberration, profiled denoise if needed you should be in a good place.....if the color or contrast needs a boost use local contrast or the contrast equalizer...and finally color balance for boosts in color and minor tone ...for basic edits this would cover most of it..of course there are so many more options....
Great video to compare the two. I only started learning dt around Xmas but quickly found it is WAY more powerful that lr. Thankfully, there are many great video tutorials on line to help get over the learning curve. Initially I didn't like dt as the imported images appeared dark when compared to the in camera JPG preview. A little research taught me this is normal and to be expected. Then I learned with a few clicks in a few modules you can make the images much better. You are correct in that dt imports the raw image which will always appear darker and flatter. I usually start with the Exposure module and add 1ev (for my camera, others need more/less) and a touch for blk level. I'm not sure how masking works with lr, but once you master the 'drawn and parametric masks' that are available on almost all the modules, you can do almost anything. Looking forward to more of your videos.
Thanks Richard! I agree, initially I didn't like dt for the same reason, I couldn't figure out why my images looked "better" as a raw import in lightroom. I couldn't find any explanations online, so I thought this may help others coming along behind me looking for the same info.
I thought this would be way over my head, but was actually able to follow what you were teaching! Thanks so much for the insights. I love having a free option to Light Room!
3.2.1. Pixelpipe, module order, and history stack darktable processes images - from input to output - in a so called “pixelpipe”. Within the pixelpipe image processing consists of consecutive operations which are implemented as “modules”. Modules are applied in a fixed order. This differentiates darktable, as a non-destructive image editor, from classical image manipulation programs like GIMP. As module order is fixed, you are free to activate, deactivate or change the parameters of a module at arbitrary points in time; the order of activation in your workflow does not have any impact on the outcome. Users frequently ask why the module order is fixed and if there are plans to change that restriction. There are several reasons why darktable works in the way described: The sequence of modules has been selected with great care in order go give highest output quality. Changes to the sequence would generally worsen the result rather than improving it. Certain image processing steps just don't make sense if they are shifted in the pixelpipe. To mention just a few: highlight reconstruction needs to be done on raw data before demosaicing and the demosaic step needs to be performed before any input color profile can be applied. Most of darktable's modules are designed to work within a specific color model (see Section 3.2.10, “Color management” for more details). Full flexibility would require modules to support different parallel algorithms depending on the color space they are working in - this would drastically increase complexity. That said, the fixed sequence of modules is not likely to change in the near future. Whenever you activate or deactivate a module or go back to a module and change the parameters, this adds an item on top of the “history stack”. For example, when working on a raw file, the history stack on the left panel might say that you first enabled bilateral filtering, then disabled base curve, then adjusted white balance. But at any time, the processing took the raw image, adjusted white balance on it, then demosaic, then base curve (if enabled), then bilateral filtering (if enabled), as shown bottom to top on the right panel. The history stack records your workflow in the order in which you made changes to the pipeline. It allows you to go back to an earlier stage of development if needed. The history stack represents your personal workflow and is not to be confused with the sequence in which modules are applied in the pixelpipe (see above). For more details on the history stack see Section 3.3.3, “History stack”. As I said you can now move them around....
Excellent information, I'm trying to get rid of Adobe and leaving LR has been quite hard because I have about 15 years of work in LR catalogues. I'll be trying Darktable soon so learning all the ins and outs before trying is quite helpful. Thank yoy Todd Prior for this very well put information.
Good job Amber. Obviously each person has a different approach to editing, but I think the end result of the darktale edit looked a lot more realistic, with colours and tones that were far more believable. The litmus test for me was the purple colour of the girls wraparound, with the white stars. This lovely purple tone is completely absent in the Lightroom edit. and ends up looking more like the same colour as her cape. In your darktable edit, the purple colour just pops, and its so easy to identify it as its own distinct colour. Good job, interesting use of Darktable's modules.
Thank you! I agree... I like the end result from darktable best. I have another video coming soon where I did another comparison edit and so far both results have surprised me! I thought I was going to like Lightroom’s end result better because it’s a paid program so I feel like it should give better results. But the more I play with darktable the more I find I have control over my final image more so than with Lightroom.
Yes! I found this out after I published that video. Although I don’t usually get results I want like when I’m just editing it by hand..now that I’m used to editing in dt I just leave that off.
For your skin tone example it is good to note that the auto pickers in DT are quite good so in the color zones you can use the picker with the plus sign and it will select a range based on your drawn selection rather than a point...much like the spot wb that you showed. If you control click while drawing or shift click while drawing you can create an auto curve that drops or bumps sat hue or lightness....for skin I find it better to select a range then when you make your adjustment it is a bit more balanced....another quick fix for the color cast is to use color balance and click on the auto picker for hue in highlights...this applies the inverse color to the highlights and often it removes the cast or you can tweak the opacity a bit or the saturation of the applied color to get it just right....it is also based by default on the entire image as is spot unless you draw a box somewhere on the image to pull data....but both of these little adjustments are quick and powerful for wb and color cast adjustments....
I have always hated that LR makes adjustment on photo import, I prefer to control everything by myself. It's like when shooting video in s-log v-log or any other flat profile, the idea is to control coloring in post. Whenever I import photos into LR I flatten the look so I can process the images to my taste. I really don't think that this "feature" in LR (preprocess photos) is an advantage.
I’m not sure how the Mac processors compare to the Windows options, but the computer I’m using in this video is one that I built for video editing so it is faster than something I would normally be able to buy. But I do edit on my laptop as well in dt which is from 2015 and only has 16g ram and it’s ok on that computer. A bit more laggy but not too bad.
I think you just should have crop the image and remove the leaf (I don't agree on removing things on photographies, thou) on darktable to be a fairer comparison.
Nice video Amber....however you made a point that the modules need to be used in a certain order...sorry this is not true there is an established order programmed in the software to process the modules..that order is revealed from bottom to top in the left most tab of the darkroom editing screen. YOu can now modify this in DT by ctrl clicking and dragging...this requires a knowledge of processing but for eg great for moving a LUT so that it is processed as intendes say for color correction vs a look or style....if you double click on the circle icon of that tab it will show all 60 some modules of DT in the order in which they are applied again from top to bottom...this can help you decide about location....channel mixer is another one that often can be good to move....just FYI
Thanks Todd! That is all really helpful! I'm still learning myself, DT is so much more complex than any software I've used before, so I'm always open to tips and info. Thanks!
What do you guys think? I think I prefer the Lightroom photo raw, straight out of camera, but I actually prefer the ability to customize the color and edits in the image more in darktable. When I factor in the monthly cost of Lightroom, it gives darktable an advantage in my book!
The new scene referred workflow is quite good out of the gate...it uses filmic not the base curve as most base curves produce color shifts and often can blow out the highlights....it also adds default exposure and can be set to use any exposure compensation that has been dialed in....go to preferences if you are on the latest version and try scene-referred to see how that looks out of the box...if it is a little bit dark just dial in more exposure or you can activate in the options of filmic to bring back the middle gray slider and just drop it until the image looks good...if you use scene referred, add lens corrections, chrome aberration, profiled denoise if needed you should be in a good place.....if the color or contrast needs a boost use local contrast or the contrast equalizer...and finally color balance for boosts in color and minor tone ...for basic edits this would cover most of it..of course there are so many more options....
Great video to compare the two. I only started learning dt around Xmas but quickly found it is WAY more powerful that lr. Thankfully, there are many great video tutorials on line to help get over the learning curve.
Initially I didn't like dt as the imported images appeared dark when compared to the in camera JPG preview. A little research taught me this is normal and to be expected. Then I learned with a few clicks in a few modules you can make the images much better. You are correct in that dt imports the raw image which will always appear darker and flatter. I usually start with the Exposure module and add 1ev (for my camera, others need more/less) and a touch for blk level.
I'm not sure how masking works with lr, but once you master the 'drawn and parametric masks' that are available on almost all the modules, you can do almost anything.
Looking forward to more of your videos.
Thanks Richard! I agree, initially I didn't like dt for the same reason, I couldn't figure out why my images looked "better" as a raw import in lightroom. I couldn't find any explanations online, so I thought this may help others coming along behind me looking for the same info.
I thought this would be way over my head, but was actually able to follow what you were teaching! Thanks so much for the insights. I love having a free option to Light Room!
Glad it was helpful!
3.2.1. Pixelpipe, module order, and history stack
darktable processes images - from input to output - in a so called “pixelpipe”. Within the pixelpipe image processing consists of consecutive operations which are implemented as “modules”.
Modules are applied in a fixed order. This differentiates darktable, as a non-destructive image editor, from classical image manipulation programs like GIMP. As module order is fixed, you are free to activate, deactivate or change the parameters of a module at arbitrary points in time; the order of activation in your workflow does not have any impact on the outcome.
Users frequently ask why the module order is fixed and if there are plans to change that restriction. There are several reasons why darktable works in the way described:
The sequence of modules has been selected with great care in order go give highest output quality. Changes to the sequence would generally worsen the result rather than improving it.
Certain image processing steps just don't make sense if they are shifted in the pixelpipe. To mention just a few: highlight reconstruction needs to be done on raw data before demosaicing and the demosaic step needs to be performed before any input color profile can be applied.
Most of darktable's modules are designed to work within a specific color model (see Section 3.2.10, “Color management” for more details). Full flexibility would require modules to support different parallel algorithms depending on the color space they are working in - this would drastically increase complexity.
That said, the fixed sequence of modules is not likely to change in the near future.
Whenever you activate or deactivate a module or go back to a module and change the parameters, this adds an item on top of the “history stack”.
For example, when working on a raw file, the history stack on the left panel might say that you first enabled bilateral filtering, then disabled base curve, then adjusted white balance. But at any time, the processing took the raw image, adjusted white balance on it, then demosaic, then base curve (if enabled), then bilateral filtering (if enabled), as shown bottom to top on the right panel.
The history stack records your workflow in the order in which you made changes to the pipeline. It allows you to go back to an earlier stage of development if needed. The history stack represents your personal workflow and is not to be confused with the sequence in which modules are applied in the pixelpipe (see above). For more details on the history stack see Section 3.3.3, “History stack”.
As I said you can now move them around....
Excellent information, I'm trying to get rid of Adobe and leaving LR has been quite hard because I have about 15 years of work in LR catalogues. I'll be trying Darktable soon so learning all the ins and outs before trying is quite helpful. Thank yoy Todd Prior for this very well put information.
Good job Amber. Obviously each person has a different approach to editing, but I think the end result of the darktale edit looked a lot more realistic, with colours and tones that were far more believable.
The litmus test for me was the purple colour of the girls wraparound, with the white stars. This lovely purple tone is completely absent in the Lightroom edit. and ends up looking more like the same colour as her cape. In your darktable edit, the purple colour just pops, and its so easy to identify it as its own distinct colour.
Good job, interesting use of Darktable's modules.
Thank you! I agree... I like the end result from darktable best. I have another video coming soon where I did another comparison edit and so far both results have surprised me! I thought I was going to like Lightroom’s end result better because it’s a paid program so I feel like it should give better results. But the more I play with darktable the more I find I have control over my final image more so than with Lightroom.
darktable can also enhance images automatically when it imports them. Just check processing tab in preferences.
Yes! I found this out after I published that video. Although I don’t usually get results I want like when I’m just editing it by hand..now that I’m used to editing in dt I just leave that off.
For your skin tone example it is good to note that the auto pickers in DT are quite good so in the color zones you can use the picker with the plus sign and it will select a range based on your drawn selection rather than a point...much like the spot wb that you showed. If you control click while drawing or shift click while drawing you can create an auto curve that drops or bumps sat hue or lightness....for skin I find it better to select a range then when you make your adjustment it is a bit more balanced....another quick fix for the color cast is to use color balance and click on the auto picker for hue in highlights...this applies the inverse color to the highlights and often it removes the cast or you can tweak the opacity a bit or the saturation of the applied color to get it just right....it is also based by default on the entire image as is spot unless you draw a box somewhere on the image to pull data....but both of these little adjustments are quick and powerful for wb and color cast adjustments....
I have always hated that LR makes adjustment on photo import, I prefer to control everything by myself. It's like when shooting video in s-log v-log or any other flat profile, the idea is to control coloring in post.
Whenever I import photos into LR I flatten the look so I can process the images to my taste. I really don't think that this "feature" in LR (preprocess photos) is an advantage.
Great Vid ...Am i making a mistake taking pics in cine mode on my Canon M50?
Back?! Isn't this your first video? on this channel?
I am using iMac 2015 model with 32G RAM, images are on ext SSD. It seems that DT is very laggy in Mac compared to yours in Win.
I’m not sure how the Mac processors compare to the Windows options, but the computer I’m using in this video is one that I built for video editing so it is faster than something I would normally be able to buy.
But I do edit on my laptop as well in dt which is from 2015 and only has 16g ram and it’s ok on that computer. A bit more laggy but not too bad.
I think you just should have crop the image and remove the leaf (I don't agree on removing things on photographies, thou) on darktable to be a fairer comparison.
True. That would make them more equal.
Nice video Amber....however you made a point that the modules need to be used in a certain order...sorry this is not true there is an established order programmed in the software to process the modules..that order is revealed from bottom to top in the left most tab of the darkroom editing screen. YOu can now modify this in DT by ctrl clicking and dragging...this requires a knowledge of processing but for eg great for moving a LUT so that it is processed as intendes say for color correction vs a look or style....if you double click on the circle icon of that tab it will show all 60 some modules of DT in the order in which they are applied again from top to bottom...this can help you decide about location....channel mixer is another one that often can be good to move....just FYI
Thanks Todd! That is all really helpful! I'm still learning myself, DT is so much more complex than any software I've used before, so I'm always open to tips and info. Thanks!