Erratum (English text below) : J'ai relevé deux erreurs : 2:49 Une petite : Bien sûr, je dis "préfixe", mais c'est bien suffixe qu'il faut comprendre 6:22 Une plus grosse : Sur le continuum, le serbe et le croate sont plutôt à placer au niveau du tchèque, car les désinences courtes en tchèque, en serbe et en croate se retrouvent exactement dans les mêmes cas : au singulier partout sauf à l'instrumental, et au pluriel aux cas directs. Le tchèque est donc la langue qui utilise le plus les désinences courtes, dans la mesure où en serbe et en croate, leur usage est déjà, dans la pratique, archaïque. I noticed two mistakes: 2:49 A small one: Of course, I say "prefix", but it is "suffix" that must be understood 6:22 A bigger one: On the continuum, Serbian and Croatian should rather be placed at the level of Czech, because the short endings in Czech, Serbian and Croatian are found in exactly the same cases: in the singular everywhere except in the instrumental, and in the plural in direct cases. Czech is therefore the language which uses short endings the most, to the extent that in Serbian and Croatian, their use is already, in practice, archaic.
I love that this is a french language channel with english subs about a whole mess of slavic languages and the comments are both english and french. Que Dieu vous bénisse, les nerds !
One of those practical things that you learn. In Bratislava you see it with place names everywhere, streets, squares, etc. Of course, female names always get the -ová added to them (usually even foreign names) so streets named after women will always ending in -ovej; genitive of -ová. There is one exception though, there was a Slovak writer by the name of Timrava (the only one I know of with no -ová) and as a result the street named after her is Timravina (ulica). One very common error (or evolution, take your pick) made by Slovak speakers is to combine the neuter singular -ovo with the neuter plural -ove. So instead of "otcovo auto" vs "otcove autá", Slovaks will say "otcove" in both cases. Not that weird since the adjective ends in -é/-e in both cases: biele auto, biele autá. And I say Slovaks, but I mainly mean Bratislavans as they are the ones I have spoken to the most. Thank you for this video.
As a both Silesian and Polish speaker I can say that -ów*, and -in are no longer productive in Polish. I'd even go as far to say that for most Poles -in will make more sense as opposed to -ów, because -in happens to be preserved in some fixed expressions like, "mamin synek", while most Polish people I know have no idea what -ów in Kraków really is.. The same cannot be said about Silesian(and I mean Silesian, Silesian), both of these are known, and used - though the usage varies across different dialects. Some examples: 1) Ôćcōw dōm - father's house 2) Tacina zegrōdka - father's garden however, the, "Polish way" is also possible, and, depending on the region, is the dominating one, an example: 3) miyszkanie (ôd) farŏrza - priest's apartment IPA for Silesian examples: 1) ['wɔt͡ɕ.t͡sov‿dom] 2) /ta't͡ɕina zɛ'grotka/ 3) /mʲeʂ'kaɲɛ (wɔt) fa'rɔr̝a/ * this is only the case for the short form -ów, the longer ones -owy/-owa/-owe are still productive, but their usage has decreased(but they are well understood, and used - quick Twitter/Google search gives loads of examples). Thank you for such an interesting video 💛
Great video! There is something to be said though about the differences in the declension of possessive adjectives between standard Serbian and Croatian: The brother's/sister's key is gone (lit. there is no brother's/sister's key) > SR. Nema bratovog/sestrinog ključa. vs. CR. Nema bratova/sestrina ključa. The Serbian poss.adj. has an adjectival declension whereas the Croatian has a nominal one. As I'm not a native speaker of Croatian, I am curious whether this also applies in spoken Croatian or only to the standard (as I often come across it reading books in Croatian, but it doesn't grab my attention quite as much when I hear Croats speak).
Thanks for the precision! As far as I know, the nominal declension is used only in the formal / written language in Croatian, but people speak with the adjectival declension!
lol @ the confusion at 8:25 between dative and genitive. i do wonder exactly how the gag was meant to be taken because i notice francophones using "à" to express possession where they should use "de" and there being a dimension of class affiliation to it... of course explaining the joke ruins it, but i would love to hear more about the intent
Oh there was nothing that complex about this joke, it's just about a student giving a wrong answer while thinking he knows the right answer! I guess this character is for me a way to reuse the funny things I saw or heard from my students, which is not fair to be honnest, because by doing that, I'm ignoring the fact they were actually good!
C'est marrant que des noms des dirigents de l'URSS avec des noms en -ev, 2 sont traduits en -ow en polonais et 1 seul non; Khrouchtchev-Chruszczow, Gorbatchev-Gorbaczow mais Brejnev-Breżniew
Ah oui c'est intéressant ! Je n'ai pas vérifié, mais ça me semble lié à ce qui est considéré comme étant une consonne dure ou molle dans chaque langue donnée. Sauf erreur de ma part, szcz et cz sont devenues dures en polonais, tandis que ч et щ sont restées molles en russe. Et après une consonne molle, le -o du suffixe -ov -ow -ов se transforme en -e !
Je crois que c'est le résulat de la traduction mauvaise en français. Хрущёв en russe est prononcé avec un "o" et est ecrit avec un ё et pas un е. Mais car la lettre ё provient de е stressée, elle est toujours écrite parfois comme е. Pareil pour Горбачёв (notez le ë). Mais dans Брежнев - le e n'est pas stressée et elle ne devient pas le ë.
Et oui, je n'y tiens absolument pas compte de l'étimologie, car oui -ев et -ов sont les formes different du même suffix, la differance apparue à cause du stresse est la douceur de la consonne précedente
Ahah je crois qu'on est beaucoup à avoir souhaité les simplifier en en apprenant une ! Après, je crois que le bulgare est plus simple au niveau des cas, mais plus complexe au niveau des verbes !
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Erratum (English text below) :
J'ai relevé deux erreurs :
2:49 Une petite : Bien sûr, je dis "préfixe", mais c'est bien suffixe qu'il faut comprendre
6:22 Une plus grosse : Sur le continuum, le serbe et le croate sont plutôt à placer au niveau du tchèque, car les désinences courtes en tchèque, en serbe et en croate se retrouvent exactement dans les mêmes cas : au singulier partout sauf à l'instrumental, et au pluriel aux cas directs. Le tchèque est donc la langue qui utilise le plus les désinences courtes, dans la mesure où en serbe et en croate, leur usage est déjà, dans la pratique, archaïque.
I noticed two mistakes:
2:49 A small one: Of course, I say "prefix", but it is "suffix" that must be understood
6:22 A bigger one: On the continuum, Serbian and Croatian should rather be placed at the level of Czech, because the short endings in Czech, Serbian and Croatian are found in exactly the same cases: in the singular everywhere except in the instrumental, and in the plural in direct cases. Czech is therefore the language which uses short endings the most, to the extent that in Serbian and Croatian, their use is already, in practice, archaic.
I love that this is a french language channel with english subs about a whole mess of slavic languages and the comments are both english and french. Que Dieu vous bénisse, les nerds !
I never thought of myself as a nerd, but there might be some truth in this! I'm glad you like the channel!
One of those practical things that you learn. In Bratislava you see it with place names everywhere, streets, squares, etc. Of course, female names always get the -ová added to them (usually even foreign names) so streets named after women will always ending in -ovej; genitive of -ová. There is one exception though, there was a Slovak writer by the name of Timrava (the only one I know of with no -ová) and as a result the street named after her is Timravina (ulica). One very common error (or evolution, take your pick) made by Slovak speakers is to combine the neuter singular -ovo with the neuter plural -ove. So instead of "otcovo auto" vs "otcove autá", Slovaks will say "otcove" in both cases. Not that weird since the adjective ends in -é/-e in both cases: biele auto, biele autá. And I say Slovaks, but I mainly mean Bratislavans as they are the ones I have spoken to the most.
Thank you for this video.
As a both Silesian and Polish speaker I can say that -ów*, and -in are no longer productive in Polish. I'd even go as far to say that for most Poles -in will make more sense as opposed to -ów, because -in happens to be preserved in some fixed expressions like, "mamin synek", while most Polish people I know have no idea what -ów in Kraków really is..
The same cannot be said about Silesian(and I mean Silesian, Silesian), both of these are known, and used - though the usage varies across different dialects.
Some examples:
1) Ôćcōw dōm - father's house
2) Tacina zegrōdka - father's garden
however, the, "Polish way" is also possible, and, depending on the region, is the dominating one, an example:
3) miyszkanie (ôd) farŏrza - priest's apartment
IPA for Silesian examples:
1) ['wɔt͡ɕ.t͡sov‿dom]
2) /ta't͡ɕina zɛ'grotka/
3) /mʲeʂ'kaɲɛ (wɔt) fa'rɔr̝a/
* this is only the case for the short form -ów, the longer ones -owy/-owa/-owe are still productive, but their usage has decreased(but they are well understood, and used - quick Twitter/Google search gives loads of examples).
Thank you for such an interesting video 💛
Thank you for your comment and for telling how it is in Silesian, this kind of information is very precious!
Great video! There is something to be said though about the differences in the declension of possessive adjectives between standard Serbian and Croatian: The brother's/sister's key is gone (lit. there is no brother's/sister's key) > SR. Nema bratovog/sestrinog ključa. vs. CR. Nema bratova/sestrina ključa. The Serbian poss.adj. has an adjectival declension whereas the Croatian has a nominal one. As I'm not a native speaker of Croatian, I am curious whether this also applies in spoken Croatian or only to the standard (as I often come across it reading books in Croatian, but it doesn't grab my attention quite as much when I hear Croats speak).
Thanks for the precision! As far as I know, the nominal declension is used only in the formal / written language in Croatian, but people speak with the adjectival declension!
lol @ the confusion at 8:25 between dative and genitive. i do wonder exactly how the gag was meant to be taken because i notice francophones using "à" to express possession where they should use "de" and there being a dimension of class affiliation to it... of course explaining the joke ruins it, but i would love to hear more about the intent
Oh there was nothing that complex about this joke, it's just about a student giving a wrong answer while thinking he knows the right answer! I guess this character is for me a way to reuse the funny things I saw or heard from my students, which is not fair to be honnest, because by doing that, I'm ignoring the fact they were actually good!
То чувство, когда только после просмотра видео от французов поняла, что суфикс "ов" есть не только в моей фамилии, но и в отчестве.
C'est marrant que des noms des dirigents de l'URSS avec des noms en -ev, 2 sont traduits en -ow en polonais et 1 seul non; Khrouchtchev-Chruszczow, Gorbatchev-Gorbaczow mais Brejnev-Breżniew
Ah oui c'est intéressant ! Je n'ai pas vérifié, mais ça me semble lié à ce qui est considéré comme étant une consonne dure ou molle dans chaque langue donnée.
Sauf erreur de ma part, szcz et cz sont devenues dures en polonais, tandis que ч et щ sont restées molles en russe.
Et après une consonne molle, le -o du suffixe -ov -ow -ов se transforme en -e !
Je crois que c'est le résulat de la traduction mauvaise en français. Хрущёв en russe est prononcé avec un "o" et est ecrit avec un ё et pas un е. Mais car la lettre ё provient de е stressée, elle est toujours écrite parfois comme е. Pareil pour Горбачёв (notez le ë). Mais dans Брежнев - le e n'est pas stressée et elle ne devient pas le ë.
Et oui, je n'y tiens absolument pas compte de l'étimologie, car oui -ев et -ов sont les formes different du même suffix, la differance apparue à cause du stresse est la douceur de la consonne précedente
Ë = jo
C'est donc correct en polonais, et oui la traduction est pas tout à fait correct en français
Можно, конечно, сказать «Бугомиловый канал», вас поймут, хотя звучат будет странновато.
«Бугомилов канал» = Bugomil's channel (channel belonging to Bugomil)
«Бугомиловый канал» = Bugomil channel (channel consisting of Bugomil)
As a Polish person, I've never heard about -in and examples don't make sense to me
That's because -in is mostly found in placenames, take for example the town of Konin, it might as well have been named as "Koniów"
les langues slaves sont trop compliquées. Il faudrait 'romaniser' leur grammaire, comme le bulgare.😮
Ahah je crois qu'on est beaucoup à avoir souhaité les simplifier en en apprenant une ! Après, je crois que le bulgare est plus simple au niveau des cas, mais plus complexe au niveau des verbes !
Make english videos!