I'm not in that camp, at least not any more. For single LPs I prefer a single sleeve. With a collection as large as mine space is precious. Don't get me wrong, I love gatefolds, but in this case would prefer the single sleeve.
Cool video! I definitely defer to your opinion on these. I preferred the Vertigo to the Rhino on Patrick’s stream. But hearing your samples, they both kick ass! I love my original WB. It sounds fantastic in my room. As long as I’m not comparing I should be fine. Ha. Cheers Steve!!
I think that's the trick with the audiophile pressings...just don't compare them and you will always be happy. I just get amused by the call for metal audiophile pressings. I do like audiophile pressings, but in the few cases where the audiophile pressing sounds better than the original, it's not by so much that the much higher price is warranted.
I hear a clear difference...the Rhino has bigger a soundstage and greater dynamics... also, the noise floor is lower. The 2010 is good though and i have it as well.
Yeah, when I rewatched the video I could rally hear it. It was more noticeable after resting my ears. I have listened to both albums twice the day I recorded it.
A little bit more bite on that Kevin Gray, audible even though we're hearing them through your speakers and not direct. I have the 2010 version and love it, now that the Rhino Hi-Fi is sold out I'm happy that I have a copy that rocks out. Thanks for the informative video!
The Kevin Gray does have a little more bite, but not enough to pay the $150 it's now going for. The recording the clips through my speakers as opposed to through direct is a funny one. When I recorded clips direct in past videos people complained that the sound was being processed, then when I record with my speaker mic'ed people complain that my system is coloring the sound. I like to record from my speakers for that reason. There have been quite a few shootouts where the album I thought sounded better direct sounded worse through my speakers. I think playing them through the speakers give a better feel for what it will actually sound like...but what do I know, hahaha. Thanks Bill.
I’m my house the OG greenies a bit more bass and balls over the new Rhino HiFi. But the HiFi is excellent. The weak link after these two is the 2010 Rhino you have here. Wasn’t anywhere as good in my house.
I just never had a luck with the greenies...I've never found a clean copy. There is also something about the mids on the greenies that always bothered me. In all honesty though, it's one of the greatest metal albums out there and any copy is a pretty good copy.
The 2016 US reissue cut by Sean Magee also came in a gatefold with the inverted cross inside. But…it also featured the song titles on the back. However, they were not in the format of the original US, so it seems they are comfortable with taking some liberties on this sleeve.
Yeah, I did a video a while back comparing the Sean Magee cut to the 2010 and the 2010 blew it out of the water. I don't think the Sanctuary masters sound good at all. I was excited when I heard the were getting the Abbey Road treatment, but sold them almost immediately.
I'm looking forward to hearing my copy of the Kevin Gray cut. It's hopefully waiting for me at my Kentucky home. I have a copy that I bought several years ago that reproduced the Vertigo swirl. I think it's the Sanctuary pressing you are talking about. Hopefully, this new reissue is better. Take care.
Hey Melinda, I hope the move it going good...I know how tough it can be, especially going back and forth. You will love the Rhino Sabbath, especially compared to the Sanctuary pressings...I haven't heard one Sanctuary that I've liked.
Killer episode Steve love the samples the Kevin Gray’s version definitely brought the symbols upfront compared to the 2010 but they are close the 2010 Ron McMaster surprised me it’s definitely one that sounded excellent it had more of a heavy feel . I ordered the Rhino being my first copy never was able to find a clean affordable UK Vertigo.
Thanks Lovell. Every record collectors dream...finding a clean Vertigo Sabbath, hahaha. What really sucks about the Vertigo swirls is that you can get a dead mint looking copy that sounds terrible. I've had that happen a few times, and have heard of people buying 3 or 4 copies before they found a silent copy. Don't need to worry about that with Mr. Gray.
Hey there.. great video.. I've had that 2010 a few times but always seem to give it away. I have many copies of this album but prefer the UK Vertigo but like you said, if you aren't comparing them.. they sound great on it's own.. splitting hairs.. A deep listen and comparison though makes me appreciate the UK Vertigo more.. the highs and the bass on the Rhino don't sound as good to me but again, splitting hairs here.
I own my father's US first press in VG+ and I honestly prefer that to both versions your comparing here. I feel the bass is a bit more pronounced on the original.
I really like my 2010 still. My US Greeny is pretty darn good too. They are all great. The rhino hifi is just so damn silky smooth. Kevin is really passing exactly what is on the tape. It’s almost too clean. If I want to hear details rhino hifi is the way to go. If grit and rowdy you want get the Greeny OG. The 2010 is closer to the Greeny if you ask me. I didn’t see Patrick’s feed. Do you have a link to the files?
No, no link...Patrick played them on his live stream. Too smooth is a great way of putting it. It sounds great, but looses a bit or the grit and the byte that the original had. I feel the same way about Kevin Gray's cut of The Stooges Raw Power. The KG cut sounds great and is super clean, but it lost some of the aggression and power that the original Bowie cut had.
th-cam.com/users/livehTRx2jRz-iE?si=REGZFFCPGQF0oHj- Pbthal's stream from this past Sunday, @1:45:03 in (1 hr, 45min) is where he plays one, the UK I think. Not sure about the other sample.
Ahhhhh thanks for the heads up on the Sanctuary on back cover, always enjoy your reviews, of course I’m listening thru iPad speakers, the red label Kevin Gray? Anyway no matter I felt it had more depth to the percussions and the vocals felt more realistic but hey my thoughts only....cheers Steve👋🏻✊🏻🎶
Hey Lis, I hope you are good. Yes, the red label is the Rhino HiFi. It was definitely noticeable on the video. The new pressing sounds great, but not for the $150 they are already going for. With it selling out so fast, I wonder if Paranoid is next? I would be cool to get all of the Ozzy era albums done.
No, no video, unfortunately. He played it as part of his Sunday night live stream. It still may be there on the PBTHAL channel, but you have to go through about 2 hours of content because I don't remember when in the live stream he played it.
I’m not convinced that the 2010 is all analog you know. I believe it to be that Capitol have a digital preview head on their cutting lathe and I’m not sure they had AAA capability then and that may still be the case. The hype seems to point to analog but how many times have hype stickers been misleading and they probably use the same kind of sticker for these rhinos. I understand the Bellman cuts were analog, just that the cuts done by Ron McMaster may have had a digital step. It would be good to hear from the man himself to directly confirm though.
Yeah, I remember a bit of discussion about it at the time. Most of the advertisements that I remember noted that it was try analogue, or fully analogue...I can't remember how they worded it...but who knows. MoFi threw all of the trust in the air.
Ron already adressed that they didnt use digital preview heads in Capitol, thats something Steve Hoffman mentioned one time and everyone took as gospel. I gotta find the post on the Steve Hoffman forums that mentioned that Ron's cuts were pure analog (I think someone emailed him about it and he was fed up with the misinfo, which seems to still be lingering these days).
It's just never been my favorite...I've had multiple copies and just preferred the UK and the 2010. Really can't go wrong with any pressings...it's still an amazing album.
The 2010 Ron McMaster cut is bright and detailed but still retains certain old school mid range, which was what Black Sabbath was all about. Kevin Gray's 2024 cut is even brighter and removes any trace of veilness from the album, but it kinda loses its Sabbath-y feel IMO. And I say that as a big fan of Kevin.
I would really prefer a reissue with the correct (i.e., UK) track list. I won't lie, Wicked World works better on the album than the Evil Woman cover, but I am against revisionism. Wicked World was a B side that someone across the pond at Warner Bros.-who had probably yet to even meet the band-chose to put on the record. Hey, we have the same cartridge! And we both use Technics decks. I see you are using an Audio-Technica headshell and not the Technics headshell. Do you recommend I do the same?
Yessir, love that cart and the SL1200GR...I've only ever run Technis turntables. I've look at others over the years, but always end up back at the 1200s. As far as the head shell, I use both. My VM540ml is on a Technics shells...I haven't noticed a difference.
Mine arrived this morning, but only about 30 min before I headed for downstate, I will compare my copy against a 1980 US pressing, those are only ones I have, your two samples sound close, but the Rhino HiFi sounds "crisper" on my MacBook I have a Ron McMaster 2010 press of Master Of Reality, but no OG to compare against, my only missing Sabbath OG. I will be hitting record stores on this trip, picked up a few today already
The difference is actually easier to hear on the computer, though on the record player the clearness of the vocals was definitely noticeable, but flipping back and forth on the computer really makes it stand out. I had all of the Ron McMaster pressings at one time, but sold the ones I replaced with the deluxe boxed sets....I should have done videos comparing them to see how different the boxed sets were. I have to look to see what masters were used.
I don't know of a 2012 pressing, but I am curious about the 50th anniversary pressing from 2020. Unfortunately, no source is listed, which in my experience usually means it was a digital source.
Yeah, crazy prices...but the greenies are getting up there too, and clean copies are getting really hard to find. I would like to hear a NEMS pressing. I've had mixed results with other releases of theirs.
Funny thing is these are not AAA. Dont think there capable of making recordings like they used to. If you want AAA go shop for older vinyl. That's the only way your gonna get it
Klassik debut. I have a few early oress's....they sound fine to me.....the audiofile types are generally full of sh!#. Haha. You know what your ears like and thats all that matters.
I definitely get the sentiment. When it comes to metal I generally prefer the original pressings to the modern reissues, but I also like the audiophile pressings. I will say, in most cases with metal, the audiophile pressings don't sound better, or at least not enough to pay big money for them. Since the Rhino Hi Fidelity's are going for so much I will just sell mine and put that money back into records.
I had this release with the double record and demo's, i immediately sold it because i hated the flow of it and bought an original release instead, im happier with the copy i found
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
Of course we want a gatefold, we always want a gatefold when possible!
I'm not in that camp, at least not any more. For single LPs I prefer a single sleeve. With a collection as large as mine space is precious. Don't get me wrong, I love gatefolds, but in this case would prefer the single sleeve.
Cool video! I definitely defer to your opinion on these. I preferred the Vertigo to the Rhino on Patrick’s stream. But hearing your samples, they both kick ass! I love my original WB. It sounds fantastic in my room. As long as I’m not comparing I should be fine. Ha. Cheers Steve!!
I think that's the trick with the audiophile pressings...just don't compare them and you will always be happy. I just get amused by the call for metal audiophile pressings. I do like audiophile pressings, but in the few cases where the audiophile pressing sounds better than the original, it's not by so much that the much higher price is warranted.
It’s nice to have such a premium package for an all time classic album..I really wish they’d replicate the original labels tho
I definitely Agee on the labels...I hate when companies put their own labels on there.
I hear a clear difference...the Rhino has bigger a soundstage and greater dynamics... also, the noise floor is lower. The 2010 is good though and i have it as well.
Yeah, when I rewatched the video I could rally hear it. It was more noticeable after resting my ears. I have listened to both albums twice the day I recorded it.
A little bit more bite on that Kevin Gray, audible even though we're hearing them through your speakers and not direct. I have the 2010 version and love it, now that the Rhino Hi-Fi is sold out I'm happy that I have a copy that rocks out. Thanks for the informative video!
The Kevin Gray does have a little more bite, but not enough to pay the $150 it's now going for. The recording the clips through my speakers as opposed to through direct is a funny one. When I recorded clips direct in past videos people complained that the sound was being processed, then when I record with my speaker mic'ed people complain that my system is coloring the sound. I like to record from my speakers for that reason. There have been quite a few shootouts where the album I thought sounded better direct sounded worse through my speakers. I think playing them through the speakers give a better feel for what it will actually sound like...but what do I know, hahaha. Thanks Bill.
Fantastic video comparison. I own the 2010 pressing and 1973 WWE pressing, which used the original UK pressing plates, and both sound good to me.
Thanks Eddie. It was a fun video to make...plus it's nice to have an excuse to listen to one of the great album a half dozen times.
Thank you very much for doing a follow up comparison video on Sabbath. I watched your last one several times
Thanks, I really appreciate it.
I’m my house the OG greenies a bit more bass and balls over the new Rhino HiFi. But the HiFi is excellent. The weak link after these two is the 2010 Rhino you have here. Wasn’t anywhere as good in my house.
I just never had a luck with the greenies...I've never found a clean copy. There is also something about the mids on the greenies that always bothered me. In all honesty though, it's one of the greatest metal albums out there and any copy is a pretty good copy.
The 2016 US reissue cut by Sean Magee also came in a gatefold with the inverted cross inside. But…it also featured the song titles on the back. However, they were not in the format of the original US, so it seems they are comfortable with taking some liberties on this sleeve.
Yeah, I did a video a while back comparing the Sean Magee cut to the 2010 and the 2010 blew it out of the water. I don't think the Sanctuary masters sound good at all. I was excited when I heard the were getting the Abbey Road treatment, but sold them almost immediately.
I'm looking forward to hearing my copy of the Kevin Gray cut. It's hopefully waiting for me at my Kentucky home. I have a copy that I bought several years ago that reproduced the Vertigo swirl. I think it's the Sanctuary pressing you are talking about. Hopefully, this new reissue is better. Take care.
Hey Melinda, I hope the move it going good...I know how tough it can be, especially going back and forth. You will love the Rhino Sabbath, especially compared to the Sanctuary pressings...I haven't heard one Sanctuary that I've liked.
Based on your video, I like the Rhino High Fidelity version!
Killer episode Steve love the samples the Kevin Gray’s version definitely brought the symbols upfront compared to the 2010 but they are close the 2010 Ron McMaster surprised me it’s definitely one that sounded excellent it had more of a heavy feel . I ordered the Rhino being my first copy never was able to find a clean affordable UK Vertigo.
Thanks Lovell. Every record collectors dream...finding a clean Vertigo Sabbath, hahaha. What really sucks about the Vertigo swirls is that you can get a dead mint looking copy that sounds terrible. I've had that happen a few times, and have heard of people buying 3 or 4 copies before they found a silent copy. Don't need to worry about that with Mr. Gray.
I've got the black and purple vinyl issue which is surprisingly good, I love the SL-1210 and the Audio-technica vm 760 slc, such an amazing cartridge.
Hey there.. great video.. I've had that 2010 a few times but always seem to give it away. I have many copies of this album but prefer the UK Vertigo but like you said, if you aren't comparing them.. they sound great on it's own.. splitting hairs.. A deep listen and comparison though makes me appreciate the UK Vertigo more.. the highs and the bass on the Rhino don't sound as good to me but again, splitting hairs here.
I own my father's US first press in VG+ and I honestly prefer that to both versions your comparing here. I feel the bass is a bit more pronounced on the original.
I really like my 2010 still. My US Greeny is pretty darn good too. They are all great. The rhino hifi is just so damn silky smooth. Kevin is really passing exactly what is on the tape. It’s almost too clean. If I want to hear details rhino hifi is the way to go. If grit and rowdy you want get the Greeny OG. The 2010 is closer to the Greeny if you ask me. I didn’t see Patrick’s feed. Do you have a link to the files?
No, no link...Patrick played them on his live stream. Too smooth is a great way of putting it. It sounds great, but looses a bit or the grit and the byte that the original had. I feel the same way about Kevin Gray's cut of The Stooges Raw Power. The KG cut sounds great and is super clean, but it lost some of the aggression and power that the original Bowie cut had.
th-cam.com/users/livehTRx2jRz-iE?si=REGZFFCPGQF0oHj-
Pbthal's stream from this past Sunday, @1:45:03 in (1 hr, 45min) is where he plays one, the UK I think. Not sure about the other sample.
@@R3TR0R4V3 Nice!
Ahhhhh thanks for the heads up on the Sanctuary on back cover, always enjoy your reviews, of course I’m listening thru iPad speakers, the red label Kevin Gray? Anyway no matter I felt it had more depth to the percussions and the vocals felt more realistic but hey my thoughts only....cheers Steve👋🏻✊🏻🎶
Hey Lis, I hope you are good. Yes, the red label is the Rhino HiFi. It was definitely noticeable on the video. The new pressing sounds great, but not for the $150 they are already going for. With it selling out so fast, I wonder if Paranoid is next? I would be cool to get all of the Ozzy era albums done.
I would love to check out Patricks video if I could find it. Can you link it here ?
No, no video, unfortunately. He played it as part of his Sunday night live stream. It still may be there on the PBTHAL channel, but you have to go through about 2 hours of content because I don't remember when in the live stream he played it.
I’m not convinced that the 2010 is all analog you know. I believe it to be that Capitol have a digital preview head on their cutting lathe and I’m not sure they had AAA capability then and that may still be the case. The hype seems to point to analog but how many times have hype stickers been misleading and they probably use the same kind of sticker for these rhinos. I understand the Bellman cuts were analog, just that the cuts done by Ron McMaster may have had a digital step. It would be good to hear from the man himself to directly confirm though.
Yeah, I remember a bit of discussion about it at the time. Most of the advertisements that I remember noted that it was try analogue, or fully analogue...I can't remember how they worded it...but who knows. MoFi threw all of the trust in the air.
Ron already adressed that they didnt use digital preview heads in Capitol, thats something Steve Hoffman mentioned one time and everyone took as gospel. I gotta find the post on the Steve Hoffman forums that mentioned that Ron's cuts were pure analog (I think someone emailed him about it and he was fed up with the misinfo, which seems to still be lingering these days).
How can you ‘not like’ an original Greenie US pressing, especially with music this f-ing good? Weird to me, must be comparing to Jazz music lol
It's just never been my favorite...I've had multiple copies and just preferred the UK and the 2010. Really can't go wrong with any pressings...it's still an amazing album.
I have the"2016 Rhino" , it sounds ok, but it's a little "artifacty" if that's a word!
the first first US pressing with the Seven Arts label is the best sounding one, before the green label Warners.
I was just looking at that pressing on Discogs...doesn't look like they're available very often.
The 2010 Ron McMaster cut is bright and detailed but still retains certain old school mid range, which was what Black Sabbath was all about. Kevin Gray's 2024 cut is even brighter and removes any trace of veilness from the album, but it kinda loses its Sabbath-y feel IMO. And I say that as a big fan of Kevin.
I would really prefer a reissue with the correct (i.e., UK) track list. I won't lie, Wicked World works better on the album than the Evil Woman cover, but I am against revisionism. Wicked World was a B side that someone across the pond at Warner Bros.-who had probably yet to even meet the band-chose to put on the record.
Hey, we have the same cartridge! And we both use Technics decks. I see you are using an Audio-Technica headshell and not the Technics headshell. Do you recommend I do the same?
Yessir, love that cart and the SL1200GR...I've only ever run Technis turntables. I've look at others over the years, but always end up back at the 1200s. As far as the head shell, I use both. My VM540ml is on a Technics shells...I haven't noticed a difference.
Mine arrived this morning, but only about 30 min before I headed for downstate, I will compare my copy against a 1980 US pressing, those are only ones I have, your two samples sound close, but the Rhino HiFi sounds "crisper" on my MacBook
I have a Ron McMaster 2010 press of Master Of Reality, but no OG to compare against, my only missing Sabbath OG.
I will be hitting record stores on this trip, picked up a few today already
The difference is actually easier to hear on the computer, though on the record player the clearness of the vocals was definitely noticeable, but flipping back and forth on the computer really makes it stand out. I had all of the Ron McMaster pressings at one time, but sold the ones I replaced with the deluxe boxed sets....I should have done videos comparing them to see how different the boxed sets were. I have to look to see what masters were used.
Hi, have you heard the Andy Pearce remaster also from Rhino in 2012 I think ? I hunk it sounds good.
I don't know of a 2012 pressing, but I am curious about the 50th anniversary pressing from 2020. Unfortunately, no source is listed, which in my experience usually means it was a digital source.
Green or Palm Tree are my go to. NEMS sounds punchy too. Would never pay up for a UK Vertigo.
Yeah, crazy prices...but the greenies are getting up there too, and clean copies are getting really hard to find. I would like to hear a NEMS pressing. I've had mixed results with other releases of theirs.
Thanks , I’ll take better sounding vocals and cymbals every day .
Thanks. Honestly you can't go wrong with this album...it's a classic regardless of my snobbery, hahaha.
Funny thing is these are not AAA. Dont think there capable of making recordings like they used to. If you want AAA go shop for older vinyl. That's the only way your gonna get it
Klassik debut. I have a few early oress's....they sound fine to me.....the audiofile types are generally full of sh!#. Haha. You know what your ears like and thats all that matters.
I definitely get the sentiment. When it comes to metal I generally prefer the original pressings to the modern reissues, but I also like the audiophile pressings. I will say, in most cases with metal, the audiophile pressings don't sound better, or at least not enough to pay big money for them. Since the Rhino Hi Fidelity's are going for so much I will just sell mine and put that money back into records.
I had this release with the double record and demo's, i immediately sold it because i hated the flow of it and bought an original release instead, im happier with the copy i found