Rhino High Fidelity Black Sabbath - Darkness or Light?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Rhino High Fidelity Black Sabbath Review
The new release in the Rhino High Fidelity Series is Black Sabbath's self titled debut. It was limited to 5,000 numbered copies and has unfortunately sold out in record time. It was gone in five days, and has attracted flippers who are trying to make a buck by jacking it up to $150 and beyond. Hopefully there will be a non numbered pressing at some point in the future for those who missed out. I do think Rhino should look at increasing numbers on certain titles going forward so that everyone who wants one can get one.
In this video I will give you my impressions of this version of this iconic, groundbreaking record.
The Rhino High Fidelity release is cut from the original analog master tape (US) by Kevin Gray at Cohearant Audio, pressed on 180gm vinyl at Optimal Media in Germany, and presented in a heavyweight Stoughton style high gloss tip on gatefold jacket with exclusive insert with commentary by engineer Tom Allom. It is a limited numbered edition of 5,000.
Rhino High Fidelity titles are available exclusively from the Rhino Store. Although this release is sold out several are still available:
store.rhino.com/en/search/?q=...
Related videos:
Rhino High Fidelity - The Cars ST
• The Cars S/T Rhino Hig...
Rhino High Fidelity - Van Morrison, His Band And The Street Choir
• Rhino High Fidelity Au...
Rhino High Fidelity - The Doobie Brothers - The Captain And Me
• Rhino High Fidelity Th...
Rhino High Fidelity - The Cars -Candy-O
• The Cars Candy-O: Ulti...
Rhino High Fidelity - The Grateful Dead - American Beauty
• The Grateful Dead Amer...
The Pressing Matters Amazon Affiliate Storefront
www.amazon.com/shop/thepressi...
(As an an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases)
If you particularly enjoyed this video, please consider a small one time donation to the channel! You can do so easily by clicking the "Thanks" button in the row of icons just below the title. Any amount truly helps and is greatly appreciated.
Reference System
-Basis 1400 Turntable
-Rega RB300 Tone Arm
-Audio Technica AT33EV MC Cartridge
-Hana SL ML Cartridge
-ModWright PH 9.0 Tube Phono Pre
-Cayin A-50T Integrated Tube Amplifier
-System Audio Pandion 30 Loudspeaker
-Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 Loudspeaker
-Tributaries Series 8 Interconnect
-Herron Audio Interconnect Cable
-Definitive Technology ProSound Sub
-Panamax M5300PM Power Filter
-Degritter Ultrasonic Record Cleaner
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Background
01:55 The Castle Sanctuary Pressing
03:06 Sound Differences and Preferences
12:01 Conclusion - เพลง
![แม่กลองสองใจ - ซีแกรม โตเกียว มิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GSQfVjcr_f4/mqdefault.jpg)
Bravo Scott! An important video. Far too much sycophancy around these many reissues. Sure, most are very good, but some not so much. Your honesty shines through. Congratulations on a superb video review.
Thank you Anthony.
Audiophiles are never satisfied
Audiophiles: we want what’s on the master tapes!
Audiophiles: it’s too clean sounding!
So true! I understand the irony of your thought!
But really who wants to see a blind acceptance of every new reissue. Sometimes there are issues that need to be discussed and I think this is one of those times.
Well well! What do we have here? A reviewer with enough confidence and conviction in his system & hearing abilities that's not afraid to "tell it like it is"??? What a concept!!! I absolutely love this! Keep up your excellent work Mr. Wilson! What a way to earn and keep growing your audience!
You know I really don't like doing critical reviews. I always try to be fair and balanced. I do have more confidence in my assessments as the system keeps improving. With this is simply a question of 'how do you like your sabbath to sound'
Thank you for your support and advice, Oz!
What a suckup, Oz! Just because you are friends and sold him some of his system. 😉 (kidding!)
@@jeffbellin8224 Hi Jeff! Got a chuckle out of your comment! But Oz has really pushed me to be transparent and honest, at all times. Even when there will be pushback. That's how he is and I admire that quality. And I think he saw something in this video.
Thanks for watching Jeff!
Of course, Scott. Again you're very thoughtful.
Sorry, late to the party, just got out of the hospital. Scott, thank you for an honest review. I love Kevin Gray too, but just because it says “Kevin Gray,”that doesn’t mean you should automatically love it. We can always trust your opinion.🙏🏻🎧
Well done Scott, always appreciate that your assessments are 'honest', and not influenced by hype/emotion! 👍
Thank you for your comment. Honestly is the best policy for a review. I'm glad this video has been well received.
Your honest review is making me feel better for not being able to snap one up in time. I don’t think I could live without being able to adjust bass and treble, I don’t have to do it all the time but sometimes it’s down to personal taste whether something is too bright, too much bass or not enough. I only have one Rhino Hi-fi and it’s “Ole” which I’m really happy with.
It's something I hope you could hear some day, but I wouldn't feel bad about missing this version. It's going to get a lot of hype, and it is a good record which many will love. When I was listening to it I recalled seeing Sabbath live with Ozzy, and the vibe and tonality live was definitely darker and weightier. This record is more analytical in that respect. Interesting to look around in the soundstage and marvel at the detail drawn out, but just leaving me a bit cold. Of course personal taste, priorities and expectations play into how one reacts to it. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Thanks for your honest review! As someone who missed out initially and is now dealing with the aftermarket on this I’m gonna wait it out and see if the pricing normalizes before actually pulling the trigger on it.
Absolutely, and remember, just because I didn't love it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. I think it's fine for $39.00. But please don't pay $150 unless you hear some sample files online or hear the record in person. I'd say if you loved the previous Rhino rock titles and their sound signature, you won't be disappointed. However if you had any reservations about Captain and Me, Candy-O or American Beauty with regards to the top end extension and lighter bass, this is similar, with different music. I just didn't feel like the approach worked for the music.
Thanks Scott for your honest review. In my collection I have a 1st UK pressing, a UK repress (4th variant) a 1976 Nems West Germany pressing, and I think a Chris Bellman pressing from a few years back. The UK pressings are my favorite ones. A few years ago I bought an early Warner Bros pressing on the Seven Arts label. I think I played it once and it was just Ok. The seller had emailed me a year later asking if I would sell it back to him so I did.
Hi Jim,
Absolutely!
I really have to hear the UK pressing! I know this Rhino is too bright and light for me, and I want a killer pressing of this album eventually. Sounds like you're set for this title!
Thanks for watching!
Chris Bellman didn’t cut this I don’t think
@@charlesgund4812 I know he did Vol. 4. I assumed that he pressed this one only because the hype sticker had QRP on it.
I have the WB OG green label US pressing. To me it sounds great and it is all I have known of the first Sabbath album. I have not heard the Rhino Hi Fi which sold out in 5 days so even if I was to buy it, I had a small window of time to do so- I don't got for FOMO, thankfully. Yours is a good honest review. I have the Rhino HiFi Marquee Moon which I'm happy with. This reissue for Black Sabbath has actually bolstered the used vinyl market for this title. I don't believe that was Rhino's intention..
I think original pressings will always hold their allure, and the Vertigo is legendary for this album. I'd love to hear it one day. I think you are good with the pressing you have. I'm sure it would be interesting for you to hear the Rhino, but not at the secondary prices. For $40, it's a good deal, if not exactly the treatment I had hoped for for this title.
@@ThePressingMatters If you think the Rhino is bright, I would steer clear of the US Artisan Greenie as it's brighter
I have an original green label US copy in VG+ condition and it's one of my favorite sounding records I own. The way you describe this new pressing makes it sound awful to me lol, but you were fair and admitted it's technically good and it was just a preference. Like you, I also wouldn't want a bright sounding version with vocals way up in the mix.
Thanks for your comment! Although aural memory can't be relied upon, I do remember the basic character of the Artisan olive label US pressing and it had a much more appealing tonal balance than the detailed and forward Rhino. I recall it having a heavier sound than the somewhat lighter Rhino. I'll search one out to confirm that. If you ever get to hear the Rhino by chance, I'd love to hear what you thought about it.
Scott, I don't know the album (nor will I, as BS, the band, is not my thing). But I got a very nice picture of what you were hearing.
And this is certainly not likely the only example of an engineer pulling out more detail than is good for the presentation of the music. I've mentioned the UHQR of Aja as an example, here. I've also mentioned in other forums the AP 45 of Dusty In Memphis, where there's so much detail, I can hear that she was recorded separately in a small booth while the rest of the band was recorded together in a large studio. It greatly diminishes the "wall of sound" that the original engineer was going for. The tonality of the AP is lovely, but you can tell they're all not playing and singing in the same space.
And the OneStep of The Nightfly is another one that is TOO detailed. It reveals the clinical aspects of the digital recording. The original RL sounds more lyrical, more musical. That's not to damn every aspect of the OneStep. Being for at 45, the songs that occur at the ends of the sides of the 33 breathe more. That's a good thing. But overall, I'd rather listen to the RL.
Anyway, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and nuance in your reviews.
Hi Jeff,
I love your comments because you explain so clearly exactly what you hear, without any bias. Sometimes what we who are being honest state things that go against the tide of opinions. You've always been very steadfast in your opinions and people really respect you for it.
Thank you so much for watching this, even if not a fan of the music, because you brought up a very important points.
"Black Sabbath with the lights on", is why I follow you because you are honest about these remasters. You come at it as a music fan first, you put "feel" first and analytical second. I think its great that you are going against the grain on this one. I don't have a horse in this race and I was still engaged. Thanks, Scott!
Thank you for watching this one! I just couldn't get behind this one (and most of this series) despite the massive hype. I try to be diplomatic but always strive to be honest. Great to have your feedback, thanks again!
Great review, Scott! Thank you for your honest thoughts. Comparing to my ‘73 Vertigo spaceship label reissue, my experience shares most of your findings vs your Castle reissue. I can’t believe how close to a UK original Kevin got the US copy tape to sound 50+ years later, but it feels like it came at a cost. Perhaps overly detailed and slightly top heavy?
None of this is to say that if you don’t have an early UK that this isn’t a great alternate! It’s a wonderful reissue! No one with realistic expectations was ever expecting this to beat an early UK.
So true. It was frustrating to be in the dark as far as not having key pressings but the sound signature here was something I could easily zero in on. A good reissue that misses the mark a bit.
I have five of the Rhino High Fidelity albums and love them all. I just don't love Black Sabbath enough to justify buying a record for probably a single listen.
I wish I loved them as much as you and others do. I really always go into these Rhino reviews excited and with an open mind. It's simply a matter of taste and preference.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
thanks for putting into words what i was feeling as i dropped the needle on this new black sabbath! i couldnt put my finger on what bothered me... but you articulated it very well!
There certainly is a lot of hype about it, but I think it is a bit of a misfire. Some are starting to say so. Of course it subjective but to me it was not subtle. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
Thanks for another well considered review, and for not calling the first US pressing a “Gr*#@ie”!
I do have one of those olive colored Artisan mastered copies, which I bought within the first month of release.
It’s still in mint condition, and has been carefully played less than 20 times.
About fifteen years ago, I found a Vertigo “a Phillips record product” very first, M- pressing, and was expecting it to sound even better than my great sounding U.S., but to my surprise it sounded thinner and less alive.
One possible reason may be that my US was a very early pressing, from a very fresh stamper.
The groove definition, on both sides, is very strong, and especially apparent on side two.
I also like that the US has “Wicked World”, and that it’s not the gatefold with the inverted cross, containing the overly grim poem.
The group also didn’t like the inside cover, but were overruled by Vertigo.
P.S. I to, think it best to listen to this album with the lights turned down🙃
"It sounds like Black Sabbath with the lights on..." 😊 Excellent description Scott. I just FINALLY left a brief post of my impressions on the SHF Rhino thread a few minutes ago. I think you explained it very well the differences between the presentations.
With my system (which you may have seen, I don't remember... there are links to pictures of it under my few videos I have posted here under my screen name) it has a rather usual setup with tall multi-driver line-source open baffle dipole line arrays with 13 drivers a side + separately driven 2-15" dipole woofers. So, its strength is that it really shows up imaging and soundstage. So, yes, on my system the sound of this album does indeed hit you and envelope you with its presence, depth and soundstage. BUT... like you and others have said, they prefer the *TONALITY* of the darker, weightier power of say the original Vertigo or Artisan pressings (I have the original Artisan pressing)
I too at the very first seemed rather disappointed with what I PERCEIVED was a lack of bass, especially on the first couple of songs. Strangely, the 3rd song comes through with a lot more low end power, as well as the rest of the album. I THINK that with having 14 drivers a side and such a tall, open baffle dipole geometry, I can really feel the entire dimensional enveloping presence of the way Kevin mastered it. BUT... I can see how many people with more usual or you might say 'standard' 2 and 3 way speaker systems may prefer just the straight forward low end power and punch TONALLY of the 'darker' pressings. I honestly feel it is a matter of preference (especially like you said about this particular album) and the geometry of one's system. Great impressions Scott, really enjoyed your presentation!
Thank you so much for this comment! I was hoping I'd hear from you because I recall your system description from another post, maybe in the forum. It's true that unfortunately the first song surprised me with the lack of weight, yet there are some parts later in the record where it does make an appearance. When that happens, it does come alive in the way I had hoped. I noticed it on the second side mainly,,but the third track on side one has it as you noted. On an unusual system such as yours, certain aspects of the record must be very impressive.
I think overall it's still missing a certain vibe. It's not only the occasional lack of bass power but just a rather clinical feel to what I think should be music shrouded in a darker atmosphere. I probably would love an Artisan or Vertigo cut for that reason, and my bringing up the Castle, which I'm not recommending,,was just for a counterpoint in the way the record could be presented. Surely a matter of taste, priorities, systems, and expectations. It might not have come across that this is actually on of my favorite Rhino HF titles, but that said I was disappointed with several. It was hard to get the tone of my conversation just right, because I do admire many things about the Rhino but had hoped it would have a darker and heavier vibe on my system as it stands.
At any rate your comment was very welcome as always, extremely informative, and one I hope others will take note of.
Now, I'll be moving on to Bridge of Sighs! I just got the 50th set, and I'm looking forward to that!
@@ThePressingMatters Hey Scott, thanks for the nice reply mate! Yeah, we ARE after all talking Sabbath for Goodness sake, right? 😁 So, uh, YEAH, 'Dark', 'Brooding', 'Heavy'... that is indeed what we would want and expect from them. I guess you can likely tell that the very reason my friend designed my system this way was because I REALLY cherish image and soundstage probably above all things. That is why when recordings/pressings are really compressed, or Abbey Road has done one of their multiple conversion digital 1/2 speed numbers (not always, but a lot lately) those REALLY show up on my system, and not in a good way.
So, is Sabbath really a band where the first thing you want to hear is all the delineation and detail and layering...? No, probably not. BUT... Bro, when you DO hear it... 😀 Know what I mean...? So yeah, different versions for different impressions. Some, like a great Jazz album like say the UHQR Kind of Blue 2-45 pressing, yeah, you DO want every nuance and detail and breath, etc., that you can get. A good example would be one of my favourite Dark Goth/Grunge/(?) groups The Black Angels. A lot of their stuff is mixed and presented in a rather Dark, moody, not hugely detailed way. But, for their style that fits it perfectly. Sabbath is a lot like that. Same thing with a lot of ShoeGaze stuff, which I also really like. The style itself is not meant to be hugely detailed and spread out, but is intended to be more like a blended, droney, wall of sound.
@latheofheaven Excellent thoughts and observations, my friend. This record is a bit of a tug of war for me. So much to admire yet sometimes missing vibe and weight. I really am in the dark as to if such a pressing even exists. The Vertigo must have the dark magic. There's a reason people pay what they do for it. As it stands this was a good deal for a clean well done take on a Sabbath album and one I'm glad to have. My heart want to hear a darker take on it, and the Castle isn't perfect either. It just gave a glimpse of a darker more atmospheric take on this album. I guess I'll eventually come across a Vertigo.
Anyway so good to hear your insights here, thank you for your contribution to the comments.
@@ThePressingMatters 👍
Appreciate the honesty and not just defaulting to unconditional praise like many others. I'm very curious how your opinion would change if you are able to compare to the original US/UK pressings. My Rhino HiFi is on the way, the premium packaging alone was enough to earn my cash, but I have always been very happy with the 2010 AAA cut from Rhino.
Hi Adam,
Thank you for your comment. I am very curious too now, as you can imagine. I will try to locate the Artisan and will probably check out the 2010 Rhino as well. It's very possible you will like if not love the Rhino. Many do. I LOVE the packaging, the titles, the extra care that goes into the physical product, The mastering goals are just a bit puzzling to me.
Please come back to let me know your reaction to the Rhino!
Thanks Scott, appreciate your honest feedback. I do enjoy the Van Morrison Rhino release, I think it is great sounding...so to me they CAN produce a good mix. But I don't have another pressing to compare. Keep up the great work!
The Van Morrison was my favorite of all. I also didn't have comparisons for that one! Hmmm.
Great review as always Scott. I did at one point own an original U.S press but sold it. I think I’m gonna pursue the NEMS Japanese pressings from 1980. I have read the NEMS are highly regarded and supposedly copies from the UK masters. Cheers 🍻
Thank you! That sounds like a wise move. There are options. Japanese should be in better condition generally and if they are Uk masters... you might have a real winner!
Really appreciate your insight on this, i missed out on this album but have been watching all these different reviews. What i have learned , is , its a good sounding album on its own , but in comparison, its very bright and upfront whixh takes away from the darkness of the album. Thank you for this
Wildly divergent opinions on this one, some like a darker, heavier presentation, some like detail and lighter tone. Not a bad job by any means, after all Kevin is a wonderful engineer, but the objective result is a matter of taste.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
Fantastic review. It’s great to hear a well articulated perspective, keep it up! Looking forward to your Victrola video.
Thank you so much my friend. Working on selecting the best titles for the Victrola overview, but it will be worth the wait, I promise!
Scott, I’m glad you were able to arrive to a different conclusion since your initial review. I sold my copy and truth be told, I don’t miss it at all. Cheers.
Hi Christopher! I'm still trying to figure out how a few people saw the initial video! It doesn't really matter, the main thing I was very torn about this release. I wanted to like it, and I found some things to like. As the week went on I'd listen more and more, and it became clear that something didn't sit right with me. I knew it wasn't going to be in constant rotation. I won't sell mine, as I will need it for the next try at this title, but I can understand not really missing it.
Great and sensible review. Thanks!
Hi Jonathan!
Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Hi Scott. I got my Rhino a few days ago but I’ve been so busy that I only had a chance to listen to twice. I have a BMG remaster which I plan on A/B ‘ing with this week. At first listen I did notice more detail on the Rhino though. Thanks for your take on this.
Hi Arnaldo!
I hope you enjoy it. I saw you on a panel where they were discussing this, and it was very informative. It's a good record, and you may very well enjoy it. I know Jason R did prefer his Vertigo. I'll be interested in your findings. It's detailed for sure, and your system may bring out the best in it. I'm hoping that's the case. Thanks for watching and take care.
we went to the location some years back and it is still a little creepy. When remixing / remastering Black Sabbath the 'bottom end' needs to be right because that is the very essence of the band's sound...certainly in their formative years. Thank you once again for your informative and descriptive review Scott. Ce
That must have been a thrill to be there. I'm sure it gets visited quite a bit over the years. The image is amazing. The color, the grain, the whole creepy vibe.
Agree completely, sabbath needs to have a more pronounced bottom end, my main issue with this one.
Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts on this matter!
Gotta admit I was not wowed by this on first listen, but I wasn't sure as to why? My first thought was I've been listening to alot of the Ap Atlantic 75 45rpm series records and mabey the fact this record is 33rpm might have been the reason why, but now I'm not sure that is the reason anymore. I think you nailed it. There is something missing. Weight down low almost feels like a half speed master but it's not. On second listen I enjoyed it much more and got into the details kevin does give you and ozzys vocals are amazingly clear I just think yes their was some tradeoffs I think it's an interesting perspective of this record but your right this album needs that mystery, a feeling of creepiness that scared so many people when it first came out. Great take again Scott, i enjoy all of your videos!
Hi Robert,
Thank you for your comment on this reissue. I too enjoy this reissue to a point. It's a great title, beautifully done, and there are many aspects to enjoy. It's just that the overall effect left me wanting a darker, more menacing sound.
Though the Castle isn't really in the running, it did offer a different view of this recording that I think is valid and in keeping with the music.
@ThePressingMatters yeah it seems to me Rhino wants to be consistent with their Hi-fi releases, but I don't think that is the best way to go for the music. It makes me think Rhino isn't giving kevin Grey 100% creative freedom to do what's best for the music. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but it raises questions.
@@robertb5640 You know, that thought has always been on my mind with this series, but I didn't want to speculate in the video.
Knowing Kevin's work across so many other labels, his mastering varies to suit the music. Here I wonder if he has a client that wants this particular sound signature. The fact that it is so similar across vastly different albums is something to think about.
An honest assessment and all the better for it. I'm not a Black Sabbath fan and don't own the album. I'm interested, however, in your experience with the Sanctuary/Castle release. Here in the UK I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting that Sanctuary/Castle releases are held in very poor regard..............the few that I have sound as though they were pressed from are 3rd or 4th generation production master and therefore have the sonic qualities of a 1970s cassette tape. Clearly it is possible that the standards for the label(s) may be higher in the US.
Thanks for your comment! I am aware that this Castle Sanctuary series is not highly regarded, which makes this comparison even more interesting. I don't think it sounds bad at all, but certainly a good distance from the immediacy of the Rhino. Still taken on its own terms and how I feel this music should be presented, the Rhino is exactly how I describe it. I could have done it in isolation without the Castle. It hyperdetailed, with a top end that draws attention to itself, a bit anemic in the bass and lacking the menacing vibe it should have. It's pretty obvious to me. I'm not saying for anyone to run out and get the Castle. It is compromised in some ways. Most would probably prefer an original.
If people were happy with the last several releases I mention, they would probably like this. The sound signature is the same, with different music.
I am with you. Didn't like the only two High Fidelity that I got and ended up reselling them: Television and Black Sabbath. Television didn't sound like the band that I loved. Black Sabbath: nothing beats the Vertigo for my ears.
Good to hear from you. I had felt that I seemed to be the only one who felt this way, but from the many responses to the video, the feeling about it is more widespread. The Vertigo is revered for a reason, and it's not just its relative rarity. All who have it prefer it by far over anything else. I really must at least hear it and preferably acquire a copy. I think in this case, the appearance of the reissue will just push interest in the Vertigo even higher. Thanks so much for your comment!
Great one Scott. I feel like several are having a similar experience. I think what I am finding is that Kevin is passing a very very clean version of the tape. Which means you are getting a 4K type look at the tape. Not DVD. My analysis of the dynamic range measurements…. The US olive is a strong DR10 which means compressed and sounds larger. I believe castle was going for the vertigo (more compressed). The rhino hifi is more like DR14 which means it is less compressed and more true to the tape. I find the most dynamic pressing I have is the 2010 rhino cut (DR15) but it doesn’t have the same microscopic hifi touch of Kevins. I actually really like the 2010. On this current release, after all it is called Rhino hifi. 😀✌️. I think mofi has the same beef. Too hifi. Compression is the sugar (like we all love ⚡️) to the music and this is why it’s employed. But I love to hear the details. Definitely an interesting sound.
Great comment, thank you for all your thoughts and information on the dynamic range and compression. Really helps to understand what is happening on these different presentations.
Great review. This album does beg for darkness and bass thunder
It sure does. Not bad but misses both of these aspects.
Excellent and honest review as usual, Scott. With me it’s always been Led Zep first, Purple second and then Sabbath some way back in third so I’m not in any rush to purchase this anyway.
Hi Robert.
Yes I might have a similar ranking and as I said, at one time abandoned many hard rock albums. This one always held a special place in my memory and even though I've not loved the Rhino HF series, I had to check it out. Maybe my expectations were out of whack because it delivers the same kind of presentation as most of the titles. I was hoping with music so dark and heavy, they might have tried to bring that out more. As it stands it falls in line with what many seem to love about the series. Extreme clarity and detail, brighter tone and less weight presentation that gives you a deep look into the tape.
It's great to see a review from you on an album from Black Sabbath, one of my favorite metal bands. 👍👍👍 I have the Warner Green Label first U.S. pressing of Sabbath's debut album. It's NM and sounds really good. I don't have a need to purchase anything else, except for the first UK pressing on the Vertigo label. I don't like the album enough to pay the premium price to own it on Vertigo. I have a NM Vertigo first UK pressing of Sabbath's Paranoid album. All I can say is that the first UK pressing of Paranoid is absolutely extraordinary. 😻 I thought that I knew what Paranoid sounds like until I heard the first UK pressing. I had to pick myself up off of the floor after hearing it. It could very well be the best sounding record I own. If you'd like to buy any of the early Sabbath albums in a truly great pressing, I recommend going with the Vertigo first UK pressings if they're in your budget. I can vouch for Paranoid, but I haven't heard the others on Vertigo, but I have heard others say that these Sabbath Vertigo first UK pressings smoke anything else out there.
Thank you once again for a great comment full of interesting information! These Vertigo pressings are legendary. They must be truly extraordinary! Yes the price is high and I don't know if I'll ever own one, but I'm dying to hear one. I have my feelers out to try and get one, and I'll hopefully get this or Paranoid. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on the subject here!
@@ThePressingMatters Sure, you bet, Scott. Try to find a Vertigo title that's in NM condition for the full effect. I miraculously found the Vertigo pressing years ago in pristine condition; the original owner/seller told me that he had so many records that he couldn't listen to all of them very much. It looks new, truly NM. I've put it through a RCM Wet Vac cleaning, demagnetization, and preservation process (LAST preservative). I keep a log with it, and record each play in the log after I play it. If I told you how little I paid for it, you'd fall out of your chair. If you like clarity, fidelity, punch, and presence in a pressing like many of the UK pressings have, you'll love a Sabbath Vertigo pressing. By the way, I have Chad's AP/QRP reissue of Paranoid; it's not even in the same league as the Vertigo pressing. 🎸🎸🎸
Ok, we now have an opportunity for someone to do another pressing, everyone ante up $$$! Nice take Scott, you hear what you hear. I bought this, still don't have it yet, but I was going to buy it unless I knew it was a noisy disaster of a recording. I bought my first version a long time ago. Even back then, for an album that was recorded in one day, I thought it was a great recording. You stated you prefer Wicked World in the track listing, so do I. The way I first heard it, the recording, the track listing, that's the way it should be to me, that will always be my reference, because that is what was available.
Great comment. You know it will come around again! Although I didn't care for the EQ choices, it's still a fine job and one of the better Rhino HF. I think most will enjoy it for its clarity, precision, holographic presentation and presence. That all is great, but you might miss a darker, deeper record. So not a disaster by any means, but it might not be what you expect for a Black Sabbath record.
Kinda what Fremer said about Television, I listened to this in 1970 upon release and we all thought Black Sabbath was heavy gritty down sound as you stated, we were taken back by the darkness of a Satan connection or horror movie, The Waxed said dirty I think? I'll wait for my copy, these were Bands blending a sound not individual musicians! Keep e'm coming.
Awesome, Honest Review! I am not keen on Reissues in General but sometimes I give them a try only to be let down. Thank you for saving Me some money! Awesome Video Scott!!!
Absolutely. I appreciate your comments. Not a bad reissue for $40 but just not my cup of tea. Thanks for watching!
You’re not alone in your assessment Scott. Very much my thoughts as far as the Rhino Hi-Fi Sabbath. Musicality, tonality is replaced with detail and more clinical sound. If the 2001 has Evil Woman then I would think they used the UK tapes. Not positive about this though. You almost sound like you are describing the Vertigo with the Castle. Description matches up. Thanks for the review! 👍🏻
Hi John!
Thanks for your comment. Yes it seems this is one reissue where there is a great difference of opinion! It's crazy. Everyone's opinion is valid, but yeah this had me scratching my head. To me it missed the mark, and I see you heard the same.
The Castle is a UK reissue, and of course has the UK track listing. I imagine it's from the IK master at some point. I do imagine it as from the same cloth, just further away. I'm sure glad to have the Castle because I like the sound, period. Maybe it is the poor man's Vertigo stepchild!
Really love my just received Van Morrison RHINO Hi-Def. The sleeve is stout but near impossible to slide the LP back into. Accidentally purchased the GD American Beauty despite your warning which I believe to be very thin sounding. Was luke warm about the Black Sabbath release and it sold out quickly. So the more acoustic tracks of the Van LP are outstanding but you are right about the music sounding very detailed to the detriment of the whole. The two I own lack the gravitas of a full sounding LP like the Fagan Nightfly album.
Yes, even though I think the Van was really nice, I didn't have a comparison in that case. It's still my favorite of the series, but on the whole I've lost much interest in the series. Just sounds like it needs a warmer approach. Of course if they come out with an interesting title, I'll report on it here.
Wow Scott, your thoughtful integrity shines through this review. I am speculating but could it be certain mastering engineers have high frequency hearing loss, that could cloud their remastering , like you I am averse to overly bright recordings no matter the genre !
Hi Andrew,
Thank you! I don't think that is the case here, as almost all of Kevin Gray's mastering elsewhere is beautifully balanced. I think it's something else in this case, either a particular sound signature Rhino High Fidelity is requesting, or a simply hat he felt this was the best approach. Some say it's close to the very bright original so maybe that was the goal. I think also what I was used to was a factor in my reaction.
I prefer my low pass filter at 1k. Meaning no-k 😂
Seriously, though, I agree with your comments about Ozzy being so far out in front of the band and so much louder. I’ve noticed this on more recent pressings of their other albums. My 80’s copies of Paranoid and We Sold Our Souls are not like this, but my Masters Of Reality from about 8 years ago is.
I’m not sure if this is a Sharon thing to purposefully amplify Ozzy so for far in front of the band. I’ve heard there’s been some trickery involved with his early solo albums as well regarding many years later someone else dubbing over what was on the originals. Who knows.
It was a bit bizarre to have him looming over me about a foot away!
Hey bud, nice vid. This is the only Rhino I’ve gotten. Sounds badass on my system. I don’t have any other vinyl versions to compare. I completely agree with you tho in general about these audiophile remasters. Yes I absolutely want all the detail and space in my jazz and classical albums but not so much with rock. I don’t want it to be so clean and precise that it loses its soul. Yes I want a nice clean and quiet pressing but not sure I want that also applied to the music itself. Of course it’s highly subjective and a case by case basis. I’m sure many rock albums benefit from the audiophile treatment like P Floyd or Yes but I think some suffer when you try to bring out too much. Anyways that’s all I got. Catch you soon ✌️
Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for the great comment. You actually chose one of my top three Rhino HF releases. It's a very good record, even if I have some issues with certain things. I'm sure you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Sometimes when I have heard reissues in isolation, I come away very impressed. I felt that way about the Rhino Candy O....until I heard the competition. I actually had a draft of my initial video and it was pretty positive. But after comparing I heard the difference. And put out a revised video instead that was more accurate.
I too feel as you do - each album's musical message has to be brought out, and classic rock recordings don't always benefit from the audiophile approach. Atmosphere gets lost, musical intention and subtlety is glossed over in favor of detail.
I guess this is why originals are often treasured for their unique sound. Unless a remaster is handled with taste and discernment, it often has to take second place.
Thanks for watching!
@@ThePressingMatters that’s interesting Scott. Thinks for that insight.
Great video Scott was surprised when I saw it wouldn't figure you for a Black Sabbath guy. I have never been a big BS fan I had Paranoid when I was a kid and had it in heavy rotation for about 3 months then never played it again. I am a big fan of English Rock Bands, but BS never did it for me. I am not sure why. So when Rhino announced it I was happy to save money I thought The Cars debut album sounded good better than my 1st pressing but Candy'O, I feel didn't live up to the hype it dose feel like something missing.
Thanks and yes I'm sure a few people were surprised after a Maria Callas opera video followed by Barbra Streisand that The Pressing Matters was going soft! But I grew up on hard rock and was very much into Sabbath. I even saw them on one of the last tours with Ozzy.
With the possible exception of The Cars ST and Van Morrison, I have not been won over. A very sterile sound that seems scrubbed of what makes these records so great.
I bought the first UK Vertigo pressing of Black Sabbath in July 1970 (!) and still I own it in nice shape. And quite recently I ordered this Rhino reissue very influenced by comments present on Discogs. The price for this reissue is overwhelming to me. Maybe I'd been wrong to buy it. I'll compare both versions on my extremely sophisticated all tubes, all triodes system with ELS speakers. But probably you are right: Kevin Gray didn't grasp the inner mood of this record and didn't rendered it rightly on this reissue. I'll see
I'll be very interested in what your assessment is. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Some say it comes close to a UK Vertigo, so I'd love to hear back from you on that aspect, and if you hear what I'm hearing as well.
If not, you have a beautifully produced reissue that you'll enjoy as an alternative
I am alway excited and interested to hear your perspectives. I bought the RHF Cany-o and Black Sabath and am blown away how good they sound. That said, it is a modern sound. Late night listening on my system is mind blowing. I have a UK vertigo swirl that I havent listened to in years, so that will be interesting. I want the RHF Cars debut but missed out on that. Anyone who have extra copy let me know, I have an extra BS to trade.
Thanks, Mark! I'm so glad you are loving both of these releases. Definitely more modern. Lots to enjoy about them. Perhaps I'll warm up to them as time goes on👌🏼
Hi Scott. I enjoyed your review! It sounds like it's a Mofi type release, one that has all the instruments and vocals separated! I have not got my copy yet as the shipping has been abysmal to Eastern Canada. The last RHF that I was truly blown away by was the Van Morrison and the other gem is The Cars s/t. I'm not sure I will continue buying them in the future. Cheers
I too, was very impressed with Van Morrison and The Cars. The series is promising but not always delivering. Black Sabbath is one of the better ones, behind the two mentioned, and I can't wait to hear what you think of it. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I appreciate your honest thoughts on this (and your other reviews). For myself, I'm really enjoying this Rhino High Fidelity series as well as the Quality (with a capital Q). So far I have the Television, American Beauty and now this (though my ship date was pushed back to 2024-06-14 as I'm in Canada). I keep telling one of my other collector friends that these are "Classic Rock Tone Poets". I guess I do like the clear, hermetic take on these recordings that have already been released in so many forms over the years. I'm not attached to the treble-y guitar sound of the original Television. For that matter, I enjoyed the Pink Floyd - Animals 2018 Mix. I guess it's just my ears to brain preference. I don't have a super high end system so I don't sweat it. If I need to tweak the highs or lows, I do so with my bass or treble (or rarely my old school EQ). It goes without saying, the packaging and jackets are beautiful. I also don't get tied up in the whole "this one should have been matte!" whatever. For me, the consistency of the quality through and through is paramount. Cheers!
I'm loving the physical presentation and quality of the series as you do. Truly a Classic Rock Tone Poet. I think the goal of this series is becoming clear. Clarity extension on top and detail. All great things, just with they had a warmer balance in the whole.
I just got mine yesterday, and so far, I think I agree with your assessment. Mine actually has a bit of a surface defect, which causes my VM540ML cart/stylus to both bounce and wag, but it doesn’t seem to cause an audible anomaly. That said, I wonder if the “dark veil” might be put back on if I try playing it with my M97XE instead. 🤔
I too have a darker sounding cartridge, the AT 33EV. It does take the edge off things and could rein this in a bit. I just don't thing there's any getting around the basic sound signature and probable goal here to give us a hi fi look at what I've always considered a darker more threatening sounding album.
appreciate your honesty
Absolutely. It is my honest take on it. Does not mean it's not a good reissue or that it won't please many people.
It's just that it would have been dishonest for me to rave about it.
Great that you are being honest with what you are hearing on your system. But I really like the RHF. I've bought at least one each round. On my system, American Beauty RHF is fantastic.
I do enjoy your articulate and honest reviews, I'll keep watching.
Thanks for your kind comment. I really do wish I liked these as much as others do! That you like them is really all that matters. I'll be holding on to them and will probably try again if a title gets my attention. Thanks for watching the channel!
Another very detailed review. Thanks! I still hope I get the copy I ordered 3 weeks ago. But I'm not hopeful at this point. There's always that "PayPal" claim button if it doesn't show up. LOL
Hi Eddie,
I hope you get it without issue. There's a very good chance you're going to love it as many do. I would say I like it a lot. Just bringing up my preferences on this music. Keep me informed if you get it, I'd love to hear from you on it.
I have a 1987 Netherland Vertigo reissue (with the spaceship label), the 2001 Castle UK and the 2015 Sanctuary. Like you said the Castle sounds dark and with very deep bass and I suppose is the closest to the original Swirl. The Vertigo reissue sounds a little brighter than the Castle but very natural. I really like too. The Sanctuary sounds very compressed and is the worst by far in my opinion.
I trust your judgement on the Castle, and I don't mean to put it up as a reference in the grand scheme of things, but as a counterpoint to the bright vivid style of the Rhino. I wish I had had the key pressings, but I tried to create this video with a focus on the vibe I prefer for Sabbath. I hope to acquire a Vertigo and revisit it at some point. Were you interested in the Rhino? I assume you didn't get it, but I wonder how you'd react to it, with the pressings you have as comparison.
@@ThePressingMatters I live in Europe and the cost of the Rhino reissue plus the shipping charges is excessive. I would like to get a Vertigo Swirl to compare it with the pressings I have.
@@coolfurillo8169 Yes I've heard how crazy the import fees can be. No way I'd pay that for a Rhino HF.
I commented earlier but I'd like to add to that.
I've watched many reviews, I've read many reviews, and I have the RHF Black Sabbath, my first ever copy.
What I see emerging are two camps, lets call them the dark and bright camps. The Vertigo swirl establishes the dark camp, and the US Artisan the bright.
The pressing you compared to is a descendent of the dark camp, and that established your ear for this album. Meanwhile we hear that the RHF is very sonically similar to that US Artisan (allegedly KG had a copy as a model), and hence listeners from the US would mainly have a bright ear instead.
If you were game, I'd challenge you to get your hands on a US Artisan and replay the shootout. It could be illuminating for all, me included.
Yes I think you've described the divide accurately. I am trying to source an Artisan and I'll do just that.
I think the first words out of my mouth 90 seconds into the Rhino was..."it has no power"
Hey, welcome!
Yes! And I believe you had the key pressings as well, so even more informed than I could be with what I had. I think there was a misstep somehow here. It's surprising to me how many think it is in service to the music.
Problem here is not many others have experience with the Castle pressing to really understand your opinion, I don't think too many were pressed and certainly a rarity in North America.
Well, the point isn't really about the Castle pressing per se, and I don't want to promote it as a version you must hear. What I was getting at is that the overall approach between it and the Rhino is so different. I wanted people to consider how they think of the sound of Black Sabbath and how the mastering can dramatically alter the character of the music.
From what I've gathered the Castle is not highly regarded but it does offer a glimpse of what this music might sound like with a different goal in mind.
Greetings from Germany!
Thanks for this honest review Scott!
I can't really decide for a winner between my US green label and the RHF. The RHF seems a bit more detailed, the green label feels a bit smoother. I don't think there is much difference in bass on both copies, I think they are both a bit on the bright side.
Certainly no need to pay flipper prices for this new edition.
Now I would love to know how a UK or german Vertigo would sound like. Maybe this record would sound different if Kevin would have got his hands on the UK tapes?
This is what I have heard about the Artisan green label. Just as bright, a little smoother. I'm surprised the original doesn't have more bass. Perhaps it is a close match to originals. Certainly it's a good deal at the original price. $150 is a no go.
The modern successor to the Castle pressing is the current BMG / Sanctuary. I think I need to compare directly with the Rhino.
I'd like to try that too. Just to be clear I had the Castle up as a counterpoint in how this records overall tonality might sound. I'm not urging people to rush out and get it, but it was pretty interesting. I really would like to hear the BMG now and of course I dream of getting a Vertigo.
It's crazy that Kevin Grey's efforts on Captain and Me & Crossings are so less captivating than what he did with those two albums on Speaker's Corner (SC). Captain has much clearer, more defined and lower bass, much more punch on the SC. It's night and day on my system. Crossings has a much wider soundstage on the SC version of Hancock's Crossings, instruments have much better separation and more of the complex layers are revealed as a result. I wondered whether he'd actually been given the same "master" tapes to work with at the time of comparision!
It's really a mystery why these are coming out this way. I don't know if you saw my Captain and Me, Candy O or American Beauty videos. In all cases I heard the same thing and preferred earlier masterings, in the SC case from Kevin himself! I just heard the new TheYes Album and the approach is so different than on the Rhinos, Warm detailed, not bright, not thin, with robust bass and expansive sound. It makes me think there's a certain template followed for the Rhinos, and that the client has a lot of influence on their sound.
Thanks for being honest. That's invaluable.
It's the best approach. Who wants constant cheerleading? I feel people value an honest opinion even if it goes against the tide. I don't enjoy criticizing companies I admire and that have done good work, but I have to be true to myself. I would never feel right gushing over something I truly didn't feel positive about, I'm going to keep it real, always.
@@ThePressingMatters I think your judgement on this is correct. And you did it with the right tone.
I enjoy your review videos on the latest reissues My question is was this first Sabbath album which I think was recorded in 2 days ever meant for an audiophile treatment??? It’s a dark album and I don’t think the artists intentions were to make an audiophile impression It’s a Black Sabbath album!!!!
Hi Dave,
Well, thanks a good point. It's well recorded for its time, but this treatment really dissects it. It was not an audiophile recording by any means. I think a little murk is appropriate for this one.
Sometimes MOFIs can be like that with vintage rock music. It can be too analytical for its own good. Al least the give it a bass boost though lol!
Sounds like VTA needs more adjustment downward.
Cutter head differences along with the mastering engineers playback deck can throw off VTA pretty dramatically. Sometimes this can be the main issue on these off masterings.
I’ve salvaged many pressings with 3-8 mm adjustments and ultimately heard the intended mastering.
I did lower it a bit as I mentioned but perhaps it could go further. I'll give it another shot tonight! Thank you for the info.
What a load of BS, how do you know what the 'intended mastering' sounds like? Adjusting your VTA every time you don't agree with mastering choices is crazy talk.
@@Matasky2010 I have to admit the original comment threw me for a loop, but I tried to respond positively. Of course VTA makes a difference but you shouldn't have to change it once set, for tailoring a mastering. Perhaps for thickness of a record. I hadn't heard this idea before.
I personally like the exclusive nature of some releases. I guess if you’re a real fan, you will be in for it while it’s in stock….
I don't mind limited editions, it's exciting but sometimes the hype is so high that the window to get one gets seriously small. This one was five days, The Marley UHQRs were a few days, and remember the Craft One Steps? One of those were less than 30 minutes!
Flippers take note and shorten the supply even more. So yes they are exciting to acquire but a disappointment if you don't.
I wonder if the bass issue is due to Kevin using tube electronics?
I think it's been confirmed that he uses his tube set up for his own recordings and special projects only. To my knowledge there is no tube gear employed here. If there were, it might have been a good thing.
Bummer. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. Now I wish I hadn't ordered it.
Well, look, this is my subjective impression. I think most everyone will be happy with this. If you liked any of the other Rhino High Fidelity chances are you'll like it.
I would not panic yet. You can always let it go if you don't like it and not lose out.
I'd love to know if you have any other copy, and would like to hear back from you when you have it.
@toniputin Sell it for $150. Sure to be allot of taker, but first listen to it. Can't base what you like on your system on one review on another system. If you don't like it, maybe seek out the Castle pressing if you can find it, after this review the price of that pressing will probably increase. The OG green label would be ~ $130-!50, but then your gambling on its true condition.
@@terranaudio6101 This pressing is a good deal for the original cost of $40.00. It's probably a great alternative to an expensive original. I only brought up the Castle as a counterpoint in how the record could sound. To highlight different sound signatures. The Castle is not really considered when talking about the best pressings of this album and it is not my intention to say it is. For flipper prices on the Rhino, I think one might do better if they are very lucky.We would all love a UK Vertigo. For real world prices most will be pleased with the Rhino. I hope that the original commenter loves it. For me it just wasn't what I was looking for.
Hi Scott,
Did I watch 2 different reaction videos or am I going insane?
There was a first take that was abandoned. It was not officially released. As I listened more I felt I could do a better job in my analysis. The first one was a bit less critical and less detailed. It didn't completely reflect how I felt about it. A few of my associates had the link and perhaps it was viewable for a short time. Sorry for the confusion.
You should sell those and get yourself a 1st press UK vertigo. (Any variant) You'll be happy forever.
I'm sure I would! That would actually work out perfect with what the Rhino is going for
Yes I agree that 5;000 copies was way to few. They should have made more.
They had to know it was going to do well, but maybe they just like the hype and interest in a sell out. This mastering will reappear at some point. They tend to reuse plates in simpler editions. Did you get one and if so, what do you think?
@@ThePressingMatters Hi Scott, I did not order it. My copy of the album is the 2012 remastered version (reissued in 2016) also done by Rhino and mastered by Andy Perce and cut by Sean Magee. And I think it sounds good. I think it’s an AAA pressing but I can say 100% for sure.
@michaelrogers8126 I may seek that out, I've heard good things about it.
@@ThePressingMatters I ordered it from Target this past April for $24.99 along with Paraniod and Masters of Reality. They all have the same hype sticker saying it’s the 2012 remastered audio
@@ThePressingMatters I ordered it from Target this past April for a reasonable $24.99 along with Paranoid and Masters of Reality and they all had the same hype sticker 2012 remastered audio
I think the word is shrouded.
Yes! Perfect word for the idea I was trying to convey!
Great comments.
Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie
Thanks Mr Pete!
The new pressing was too clean for me, I prefer the OG Green label with Artisan Mastering.
Hi Cameron! This was exactly my impression too. So clean it was antiseptic! I'll be on the lookout for the green Artisan.
You ought to do a vid on it! I'd love to watch it.
@@ThePressingMatters Quite a few countries used the Artisan mastering- They should all sound very similar. The big exception is the UK Vertigo which is very expensive
Not even sure why this was thought of to be reissued as an audiophile record.
Well, I understand and wonder that myself. Of course we all want the best possible versions of our favorites, and apparently this is a top choice of Black Sabbath fans. So I think a guaranteed sell out was part of the decision. Let's face it, they really needed some excitement and hype, and they got it (with a dose of controversy!)
what do you mean, it didn't need to be cleaned? so you bake the mould release compound into the vinyl on your first play?
I mean I put it right on the turntable and it was silent. Not my normal procedure, but I did not have fluid for the VPI at that moment. I understand your concern.
I do like this pressing, but I have to agree with you that it is overly bright and doesn’t have enough low end (at least for my liking).
Thanks for your comment. I do like it too - I'm glad to have it. I just feel the music should have been a little darker on top and extended carefully down below. I would have been quite impressed. Rhino just doesn't seem to cater to that sound in general. It's bright detailed mastering with a light touch on the bass. To me it's a bit fatiguing over time. The last three or four titles are like this in my opinion.
Hi Scott. Have you tried listening to this record on a all solid state system? It may present a different take….😅
Not yet but that is a good point. All my friends have tube based systems but perhaps I will remember to bring it next time I'm in an audio store.
I could see it might push the bass impact which would be great, but I wonder how the already bright highs would fare. Interesting idea though.
I agree but I also have to recognize that this album wasn't recorded very well. I was disappointed with the sound.
Very true. Trying to bring out every last detail is sometimes not an approach I like with fairly average rock recordings from this period. Bottom line is I would have preferred a darker sound with more lower end weight. Many love it as is so I'm glad for that.
@@ThePressingMatters It was worth the $40 I paid for it. No more tho.
@@spinetingler-op6st I agree. A good deal at $40.
Thanks Scott
Sabbath is truly a band that needs that thick sound
I passed on the debut - the dark overtones, occult figured and inverted crosses don’t play well with my Christian beliefs. That said - Paranoid - which doesn’t have those elements is a driving album with great jazz like changes
The UK vertigo first press is explosive
People are going to want to hear about early definitive pressing but the captured the essence of how Sabbath should sound
Not hi-fi ish but with energy
I too have found the Rhino hifi releases not to the level of their hype
I completely understand the first Sabbath album contrasting with your Christian beliefs. I have a friend who has told me he's not interested in it for that reason as well.
I think you hit on what I was trying to get at here. Not that the Castle pressing is some sort of undiscovered gem, but that it conveys the Black Sabbath vibe better than I felt the Rhino did. Indeed, to me it follows what I've been reporting in the last three rock releases. A mastering style that seems so unlike what we expect from Kevin Gray. Bright overly detailed top end and obvious lack of much bass foundation. To me it's really obvious that it's a choice for this series. Captain and Me, Candy O and American Beauty all share the same traits. I just feel Sabbath, of all bands should have a darker more reigned in top end and more power in the bass.
I think more and more people are seeing this with the Rhinos as the hype starts to die down.
I missed out but got a green label coming Monday as I never came upon the first BS in the wild. It is and was Mt. In the 80’s. Got the rest through their 70’s glory. Sounds like the old one still wins….what I want to believe.
I ended up buying 5 or 6 records instead including the Devo. Should have went with Devo on rhino as those later 70’s warner brothers….not so good.
I’ve had many a new record be completely flat sounding ….too flat, very little eq. A.M vs F.M. Digital cd master or just cheap GZ Media? Maybe? God I hate GZ.
I like Ozzy in the veil also. I like his vocals to peek out here and there.
Good that you grabbed an Artisan green label. I don't think you're missing much with this Rhino. It's j in interesting but your green label will be more satisfying in the long run. The Rhino is dazzling at first but just doesn't have the right vibe for this awesome album IMO. Thanks for watching!
a person would have to wonder if this Rhino re-issue was ever compared to other releases which many have heard. Some considered excellent sonically. They are spending enough money up front that should be on the list of things to do. Anyone with any logic would think they would have at least one clean copy of the Artisan/Ptiman pressing, the OG UK pressing, maybe a Germany pressing, and maybe the first JPN pressing done by Nippon Phonogram. At least compare the test pressing to these others for comparison purposes. I had considered buying this but think I'll pass. Already have 3 of the mentioned releases. More and more of the vinyl re-issues seem to be falling into the vein of the "HIFI" sounding MOFI Hotel California re-issue. Tweeked so much more than the originals it sounds fake. Once a person has heard the DCC re-issue of Hotel, all the others are 3rd or 4th rate by comparison. This Rhino BS may fall into the same sonic grouping.
Great comment. I have heard he had other pressings as a reference. I don't know how much it influenced the result.
I am with you on Hotel California. When I did that shootout it was plainly obvious the DCC was the king, no question. Natural balanced and a joy to listen to, even though I'm not a huge fan of the album itself. The MOFI had me running from the room. That one is an excellent example of this wrongheaded approach. The Black Sabbath isn't in that category per se. Wasn't quite what I was hoping for, but many seem to like it well enough.
I don't get the whole "I gotta have the new vinyl release of an album that I've heard 5 million times already". For the last few years, I've been listening to catalogs of bands that I've either never heard or only heard a few songs by, every decade, every genre "as long as it's good and has artistic integrity". Listening to the same songs over and over for decades is like Chinese water torture.
Hi William!
Great comment! Yes, us older audiophiles seem to like torture, not only locked up with the same old recordings we already have, but torture in the wallet as well!
For me, with this one, I hadn't been playing it in many years, maybe even decades, so it was a nice chance to revisit it. I also did not have one of the preferred pressings so I got this with the hope this would be the end stop for me in regard to Black Sabbath S/T. As it stands it only whetted my appetite and interest in getting an original!
Thank you for watching anyway, and I appreciate you your comment as well.
@ Pressing Matters I own a comprehensive system profile picture..
First off the bat Kevin Gray laid this tape mix via @ Cohearent Audio north hills California.
Yes Kevin used his upgraded tube system to cut this lacquer interesting foot note making this record soundstage vastly different to all previous pressings.
I own multiple copies from UK 1st pressing vertico European nemms Warner green ect
I think soundstage of classic rock albums are most definitely subjective conclusion only if you're not prepared to listen to this album loud moderate volume will only provide a buried soundstage.
The true desired soundstage overall quality come to life @ 80 DB Geezers bass detail is presented without those muddy harmonics from the 1st UK 🇬🇧 pressing are now for the first time real....
Bill ward's drums panning L^R speaker 🔊 imaging being magical ✨️ Tony's guitar sound is Dark more alive valve like to my ears.
Ozzie's voice has a true growl that's usually buried not heard exception to the Ron Mcmaster Lacquer cut vinyl Remaster pressing.
I hear nuances that simply do not exist on another pressing that I possess.
I even hear Tony Iommi finger's hit the bridge Black Sabbath opening track.
Geezer Butlers hand slaps on cord progression are truly mind blowing 🤯
Bill Ward well... his drums are finally had the blanket removal from his highhats /kick drum no_longer sounds like muddy mess.
His snares finally saved from the shadows to being alive and full of life.
Ozzie's voice is upfront after all one of the greatest front man of heavy blues rock comes into your room rude and unannounced.
Black Sabbath is not for everyone I'm the Audiophile that's heavily in hard rock blues metal Grunge with Jazz funk in my veins...
I've waited for a pressing that would highlight exactly what Black Sabbath fans have been 54 year's for ....
The live studio album that represents hard blues rock darkness Sabbath is known for this pressing is alive and not fatiguing nore is it dull or veiled Dynamic range sure it's impressive contribution from the first generation recording studio standards if 54 year's ago.
This is now 2024 Kevin Gray studio 🎙 is on poit hearing tracks presented for the first time turning it up without bottom end drone of poor harmonics
Ozzie's voice buried within the soundstage Geezers bass finally with mind blowing detail...
With every aspect taken into account I could not sit back without not giving my opinion because sometimes it takes a different set of ears with certain sounds system that built for albums like this one to land on my Luxman for a spin.
Just my opinion 🤷 14:27
I appreciate your detailed and informative comment. I am rushing out the door at the moment but I will respond later. Thank you for taking some time to explain your position on it.
Your comment is much appreciated and you do make a convincing case for the Rhino. I am a bit surprised that you didn't favor the Vertigo after hearing about it for years. That you have it right there says something and I love the way you lay out your priorities and what you want to hear. I'll listen more of course and I will source a UK at some point.
I know many such as yourself will love the approach Kevin took on the Rhino.
It is excellent in so many ways as I made sure to note in the video.
@@ThePressingMatters Thank you this a very in your face production originally it was never laid back.
Production let it down veiled Dynamic range sure hobbled it's live Sabbath soundstage their known for.
This Rhino pressing with Kevin Grays twist on clarity with depth of master tapes soundstage is a modern day marvel but you must play loud. 60db will not cut it
Sabbath is mixed at very loud volume ask Kevin Gray yourself.
Just my opinion enjoy your views I understand what how you feel but this is not steely Dan or Dire Straits btw I have UHQR Mofi ect of them both and love them dearly ❤️
I give it some more time at higher volume. Pretty sure I had it at 80-85
The sound clip I heard of the new Rhino sounds sucked out to me. Very clinical with little bass & hardly any midrange. Definitely too clean of a sound for this album. -Russ
Hi Russ,
Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Could you let name know where that clip is? I'd like to share it with the viewers.
@@ThePressingMatters Harmless Rebel channel th-cam.com/video/nomoHLozc2A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bF1AfguMZ9OqA1MR
The green label sounds better
Not surprised Tara, This was exciting but ultimately didn't rock my world.
Some have said it's brighter than the Rhino. would you say that's true? I guess if it's a warmer balance overall this wouldn't be an issue?
@@ThePressingMatters The green one on my stereo seems much smoother
@@ThePressingMatters The green LP sounds smoother on my stereo. I'm using an LP12 with a Kandid cartridge which is higher detailed
Awesome, sounds like I would prefer it, no question. I'll find out one day soon. Thanks for your reply
Ordered mine on May 17th and it still hasn’t shipped.
All I get from Rhino HiFi is excuses, saying sorry for the delay and offering a 10% discount off my next purchase, what a joke !!
Hopefully it does turn up before Christmas but I’m not holding my breath.
This company is pathetic.
Hi Glenn,
Yes, for a major company to have such poor customer service is a huge turn off. Add to that the fight for replacement records or jackets, which are often unavailable and it's kind of a s**tshow.
I do hope the wait was worth it to you. Mine is only one opinion, and there's a good chance you will love the record. Please let me know what happens and how you react to the record. Thanks for watching!
@@ThePressingMatters Thanks Scott, I’ll let you know what I think, when or if it ever turns up 👍
Black sabbath music is not audiophile. Just enjoy the music and don’t analyse if you hear the rain and so on. Sometimes I have do to with so call hifi people. With all things first time you think what a great sound, second time you so called hifi ears don’t hear it no more.
I think that was my point. It's not an audiophile recording and suffers under the audiophile treatment.
“Audiophiles” take the joy out of music…