VW T3: Temperature gauge / needle does not move
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Thomas
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CLear, concise and direct. Great video, and gave me a good understanding of location of components and fault tracking, thanks.
Thank you for watching!
I owe you a huge thank you for this vid! Found the fault and had it fixed in minutes!
Thank you for watching!
This video is very helpful - your technical knowledge is well complimented by your talent for explaining it in a way others can understand. Thanks very much for the good advice.
Thank you... thank you for watching & taking the time to leave a comment!
Being an electrical engineer I like these electrical videos. Although not as much as the ones where you're working on the interior like ignition switches or that golf hatch last week. I admire your patience when it comes to those and love to see how it's done
LOL... claustrophobic? =)
I have the same issue on my 87. Great video thanks!
Thank you for watching!
Thanks Thomas EXOVCDS for such clarity, calm patience in the video, giving me hope your VW expertise may save my big headache: my 1992 euro van T4 temperature, fuel gauge quit, so I cleaned the regulator, resodered, and luckily fuel gage fixed, but temperature gauge still not. So while had the VW dealership replaced the timing belt, thermostat, hose, flanges, I had him replaced the temperature sensor anyhow in hope can fix the inoperative gauge, but the temperature gauge not response, still not work. What next should follow? Thanks so much! Ken
The wire & sensor for the dash on your T4 is located under the front coolant flange (next to / behind the alternator. Should be a yellow connector with 4 wires. The yel/red wire is the one that goes to the dash. With the sensor disconnected & the ignition key in the on position... that yel/red wire should have about 10v on it. Yes / no? If no, then look for a break / bad connection between the dash, fuse box and the sensor plug. If yes, then touch that wire to a clean engine ground with a bare metal paper clip. Have someone watch the temperature needle (key on) while you are about to ground the wire. Once grounded, the needle should rise to max hot. The problem could still be in the cluster... if the voltage at the wire is ok, but nothing happens when you ground the wire... give the dash a slap with your hand (above the cluster) a few times (doesn't have to be very hard). If it comes back to life, look at the circuit board more closely (following the temp sensor circuit from where the sensor is attached on the board).
@@EXOVCDS hi Thomas, thank you very much, I am in your debt! I am completely layman, I will let the previous owner who did soldering the regulator, read your text, also let my mechanic read it, to solve this, I will get back to you, thanks again, Thomas!
Wish your shop were in my town, Thomas
Thomas, from your experience how much likelihood is the temperature gage broken in this case? But fuel gauge working! Worried because my 1992 eurovan westfalia temperature gauge part no longer available in VW factory, the VW dealership told me.
@@kennethyou1954 Hard to say... if it turns out to be a cluster / gauge issue, you could always look for a used cluster and swap the gauge over. Check the sensor / wiring first... before worrying too much about needing a gauge. =)
That was pretty easy diagnostics where any DIY can do this. Very nice Thomas!
We've had customers drive with no temperature gauge for several years before they decide to have us fix it. I know that most new cars don't have / use temperature needles anymore... but I'm old school and want to see where my temperature is at! =)
I'm like you Thomas; give me a gauge with a needle on it for sure :)
Long time watching, dash removal was first, this is excellent too! the tip of ground to b+ help a bit too, I usually ohm the ground to ground. The info I was looking for-- bridge equals full needle swing, suspect my 10 volt supply is at issue. Would be a tip to note what else would indicate a 10 volt transformer issue, fuel gauge, tach, etc. for diagnosis.
Sometimes there are too many things to list. Most people skip through the video anyways. Thank you for watching!
I had this exact problem on my '87. You saved the day.
Thank you for watching!
Thanks for the video. My temp gauge is intermittent, however, I performed all your tests and getting signal to the wires and the gauge itself. However, I did see a bit of corrosion on the plug which may be the issue? It is possible that a bad temp gauge temp sensor would cause intermittent or would it simply not work?
Sensors can cause needle fluctuations. The simplest thing to do is to replace the sensor and see what happens. If intermittent issues continue, then the sensor was not at fault. Corrosion of wiring / connections will affect sensor / needle operation... as corrosion (resistance) affects the flow of electricity. Most of these vans are 30 years old, so a close inspection is always necessary when dealing with any electrical issues. Resistance checks of circuits may not be enough to fine the cause of an issue... circuits need to be checked while under load, so that "voltage drops" can be measured. Voltage should only drop across a load (temperature sensor in this case). If you have a drop in voltage across a length of wire (from one connection to the next), then that wire has internal resistance that is affecting the circuit. A wiring diagram will help you check circuits a to z. If the gauge comes to life after tapping against the top of the instrument cluster, the problem could be in the cluster (loose connection or faulty gauge).
Is it possible that a new sensor is faulty; this after a new water pump, thermostat and sensor replacement. Ever since we did this work the temperature gage runs at 3/4. Seemingly to high. But the engine runs fine.
Could be... but I would suspect the thermostat before the temperature sensor. If you still have the old sensor. Install it and check things again.
Thanks, Thomas! Gauge now works, but analog clock stopped (82 Vanagon Diesel)
What did you have to do to get the gauge working? If you moved the printed circuit... retrace your steps / the harness connector. The clock has its own power source (battery power all the time) and shares a ground with the voltage regulator that stabilizes voltage for the gauges. If the gauges work, then the ground is good. Pin 7 of the instrument cluster harness plug is the power wire for the clock... check that pin for power and the printed circuit board where the pin touches for damage (could be corroded).
Great info, helped me diagnose my faulty sensor. Thanks very much !!
Nice to hear that one of my videos was of help to you.
Thank you for watching!
Brilliant video… did all the checks that you mentioned and they all passed so
Assumed the sensor.. I’ve changed the sensor today and took the van for a run. The temp gauge does move but only just over the first white mark when at temperature or atleast that I know…. What could that mean?
Check resistance of the new sensor when cold / at ambient temperature and when the sensor is hot (radiator fan came on)... compare the resistance values to temperature sensor resistance chart that is in the service manual. Most likely a wrong / faulty sensor.
I have 1983 1.9 engine need to ask when you turn the ignition switch on do get all 3 led light on in my van no o2 sensor light coming on with ignition on engine off?
Oil light alternator light and o2 light?
O2 light only comes on when a certain mileage has lapsed... it could also be that the "O2 Box" has been disconnected. The O2 box is next to the spare tire and is attached to 2 speedometer cables. One goes to the wheel and the other goes to the dash. It's common for people to disconnect / bypass the O2 box and use a single speedometer cable from the dash to the wheel.
Thanks for your video. I followed your instructions to diagnose the problem and found the sensor to be at fault. I bought a new sensor and had trouble pressing it in because of the new O-ring seal. So I pressed the old sensor back in to hold the coolant. Do you have any tips on how to press in the new sensor? Seems like a really tight fit. Thanks again.
Unless the new o-ring is too thick... it should go in as easy as the old one. Are you using the old sensor with the old seal? How does the new sensor fit with the old seal? The new sensor with new seal won't fit if the old seal / O-ring is still in place.
@@EXOVCDS Thank you for your reply. The old O-ring seal fit the new sensor and was the correct size. So I guess the new seal needed more comression to fit which wasn't easy because the rubber is not as pliable. (low quality?) Brand is FAE. I cleaned the terminals on the old sensor and on the connector plug, and added dielectric silicone grease and was able to restore electrical continuity to make the gauge work again. So now I have a spare sensor of which I will switch out O-ring seal if I need it in the future.
Thank you for the update!
Nicely done. 👍👍
I took the same approach when looking at my brothers fuel gauge. Had 10v, ground checked out good, and was able to manually move the gauge. But changing the sending unit did nothing. This was on a nissan, but still confuses me. Anyways good video
I've been there before myself with other stuff... testing suggested "this", but when the new part was plugged-in... it ended up being "that". The fun of being an automotive mechanic... working under pressure isn't fun.
Thank you very much I will check it out
Awesome video !
Thank you for watching!
If you have power across the switch and you k ow the sensor is good, how do you check wether it’s the wiring to the gauge or the gauge itself?
Leave the sensor connected... remove the instrument cluster and check resistance of the temperature sensor at the yellow/red wire in the instrument cluster harness plug. Touch one lead of your ohm meter to the yel/red wire and the other to a clean metal surface of the vehicle. If resistance is good, then the issue is with the cluster, if resistance is bad the issue is between the sensor & the cluster harness plug... further testing along the path (between sensor and cluster harness plug) is required. The wire goes to the fuse box where there is a "low fluid level relay". A wiring diagram will identify the position / location of the wire, so that it can be found more easily. If you need a diagram, email me and I will locate one for you. Year, model, engine... include any other info you might think is relevant to issue at hand.
Really helpful video thanks for sharing!
Thank you for watching!
I know that the temp sensor 2 can affect the way the engine runs does the temperature sender also affect the way it runs or is it simply for the needle on the gauge to work properly?
It's just for the dash / gauge.
Thanks so much for sharing this.... very helpful!
Thank you for watching!
Does the temp 2 sensor have the same functionality?(thermistor with 10V across harness pins) I cannot find anything in the Bentley manual with respect to troubleshooting this.
The wire harness that goes to temp 2 sensor in my van reads 5 volts roughly
Also measuring the actual temp 2 sensor shows no continuity between the terminals
Depending on temperature... 200 to 3000 ohms. High resistance cold, low resistance when warm. Sorry, I'm drawing a blank on amount of voltage. If your sensor has no continuity (too much resistance), replace it.
@@EXOVCDS awesome! It's already in the mail in addition to an OEM oxygen sensor
My temperature gauge either dont work or sometimes reads low.....only every now and the it gose up half way if im on a hill..what could that be?
Year, model, engine? Stuck open thermostat, wiring (corrosion / resistance / bad connection) or bad sensor?
Nice work
Muchas gracias!
Please Tom let me know how to check if I have blown head gasket on 1990 vw 2.1 engine
Coolant leak under the engine or pressure in the cooling system when the engine is cold (before starting the engine).
What is the actual problem?
@@EXOVCDS it gets over heating and I am trying to bleed the system but it is very hard to get all the air out
Does the new thermostat open? Does the radiator get hot? Does the rad fan come on? If you manually trigger the rad fan via the rad fan switch wiring harness plug... does the temperature come down? Does it overheat while driving?
th-cam.com/video/wFy_o4mPbmQ/w-d-xo.html
Run till warm... if the fan has not come on by the time the needle is st 3/4 high, shut it off. Let cool off / overnight. Check coolant hoses in the morning to see if they are pressurized.
The more I know / you tell me, the better I can help.
@@EXOVCDS yes it’s the fan coming on and I keep the RPM 2500 steady and watching the gauges stay normal should I have the van uphill while bleeding?
Is that plug for the temp sender to the gauge cluster the same as the plug for the temp 2 sensor?
On the early 2.1L engines no... on the later 2.1l engines yes. Its' a black connector. On the early 2.1L engines, the sensor & connector have a weird oval shape.
I’ve got an issue with a constantly flashing red light. The needle works and I’ve done the tests described in the video and all seems good. Does this mean it’s in the coolant level circuit. I removed relay 43 which apparently isolates this circuit to the gauge but the light still flashes. If you turn the headlight on and flash the headlight the light stops flashing and stays off. Any ideas why this may be. Are they’re similar tests like the video to test the coolant level sensor circuit. Cheers
Yes has to do with either the low lever or overheat circuit. Sometimes it's just a matter of tightening all the little screws on the printed circuit at the back of the instrument cluster (remove cluster to do so). Otherwise, a wiring diagram is your friend (check wires connection to connection).
What’s low lever and over heat circuit where’s that
Sorry, low level (coolant) sensor or overheating (temperature) circuit). A wiring diagram will show both circuits.
Hi there, in have the same issue but i can't work it out. Across the 2 points it's 4.8 volts. I've take the sender out and checked it works in hit water. What shall I check next?
If you ground the switch wires, does the needle move? If not, check the wiring from the sensor to the gauge.
Thomas EXOVCDS no it doesn't move 😣 checked the wiring at the back one hooked up to the stabilizer, 1 to ground and 1 to the red and yellow which I assume is the sensors. Good ground and both others showing 10 volts. Is that correct?
That s with the sensor plug off
Also don't know of this helps but I have a 87 Reg 1st jan syncro 2.1 injection. There is also another temp.sensor facing the cab direction with 1 wire, don't know what that's for?
Yel/red wire will have a 10v supply... if that is correct at the sensor plug, then the wiring from dash to sensor is ok and it's a ground issue. Not sure about the single wire... send me a picture fkh161@fkh161.ca
So how do I test the single wire sensor that is threaded in? Have a 1990 1.8 Vw gti with non functioning guage
1990 1.8 should have a blank 2 wire temperature sensor (for the dash gauge) in the front coolant flange. Swap the blue ECM sensor plug with the black sensor plug and see if the needle now works. If yes, sensor is bad, if no... check the wiring.
Thank you very much
short and sweet
Simple one for me... this week will probably bite me in the rear to make up for it! LOL
You mentioned there is only 1 wire in my 1,9? I am having the same issue except there is 2 wires in my temp II sender. Where you talking about the Temp 1 sender? How do I check the wires for a 1.9? thanks!
The 1 wire sensor is for the DASH, the 2 wire sensor (blue connector) is for the ECM. The single wire sensor is to the right of the ECM sensor. At the 2:00 minute mark of the following video, you can see me disconnecting the ECM sensor and then the single wire sensor. th-cam.com/video/GRadcMNLTSA/w-d-xo.html Remove the single wire from the sensor and hold it to a clean metal surface of the engine. Have someone turn the key ON... the temperature needle should go to max hot.
I fixed it! I found the wire in bad shape and cut and reseated it. Now the temp gauge needle moves! Thanks so much!
I wonder if that was the reason my injectors would "cold start inject" before every start up cold or hot? I have not driven the van yet. What I mean by that is when the key is in the on position, the injectors will give 2 squirts, or maybe its the fuel pump? I remember my old previously owned 1.9 vanagon would only do that cold.
That single wire sensor is only for the dash needle... it can not affect the injection system. Clean all the small ground wires that connect the the cylinder head and the ones that are connected to the body (under the ignition coil). Rust can cause bad connections and affect the ECM / sensor circuits.
My light is not working and also the needle doesn't move. Noooo!
Check the main harness plug / connector (at the back of the instrument cluster) for corrosion of the circuit tracks.
Hi Thomas It’s me again
After I replace temp sensor for both black and blue
Everything work fine except when it cold starts, the idling is stalled and then shut off
It’s happened a few time
ones the engine getting warmer
The idling is ok
I try disconnect the blue one(for computer) it idling ok
Any suggestions
Thanks Thomas
The next time the engine is cold... check the resistance of the blue & black sensors. What is the resistance? If the sensors have the same "style" of connector... simply plug the blue connector on the black sensor and the black connector on the blue sensor. Does the engine start, run, idle better?
Thomas EXOVCDS I check the voltage of the
Connector that I plug to the blue one is about 13
For black one is about 9-10
I’ll swap it and will see
@@saranyukulsin1771 resistance? Ohms?
Thomas EXOVCDS resistor for the black one is 0.87
For the blue one is 1.49
Thomas EXOVCDS you’re right after i swapt it
It idling better
Hi,my temp gauge needle is not visble at all .Ive connected wire wires together and the needle still doesnt appear.Ive tested the brown ground wire nd aa is ok but the live wire has no power to it.Can you tell me what to check next please?
Vanagon? Remove and check the connector at the back of the instrument cluster... check for corrosion on the pins.
Hi Thomas ,its a 1986 transporter ,Uk.Will check that out thanks.
Is the fuel gauge behaving normally? If not, then the voltage regulator might be at fault.
The fuel gauge works fine ,the clock doesnt work though
Clock is not related to fuel or temp gauge (as far as I know).
Hi buddy, I have a similar problem on my vw t4 2.4d. The temperature sender has a 4 pin connector, I was wondering witch wires I need to bridge to hopefully get a reading on the dash ?
Yellow/red wire is for the temperature gauge.... grounding the yel/red should cause the needle to go to hot. T4's have a common issue of the instrument cluster acting up... causing temperature & fuel gauge malfunctions.
Thanks buddy, I will try that in the morning.
Another problem, I'm not sure if its linked. When I start the van it will idle normal, after about two minets the idle speed will pick right up an stay like that until I restart the van. Do you think that this problem could be linked
Make sure that the "choke" (timing advance) is working correctly and that actual base timing is correct. Run some diesel purge through the pump... in case internal components are sticking. Make sure that the fuel is not jelling (winter diesel usually has additives to keep it more stable in the winter)... non stable fuel can cause issues.
I read somewhere that if the ECU thinks the engine is cold it will pick the revs up to try and warm the engine up
As far as I know, there is no engine ECU... purely mechanical Diesel injection system / engine.
i have the single wire on one for the 1.9 do i test it by putting the + on the clip and the - on a ground ??
Attach the wire to ground, turn the key to ON... needle should go full hot. Turn key to off before it gets to full hot.
sorry sound a bit thick am i placing a loop wire like you did on the video or using a volt meter
@@chrisbeeson9386 A single wire sensor just needs to be grounded... to check for needle movement. If it doesn't move, check for voltage at the wire. No voltage, then start tracing the wire to the front / dash.
@@chrisbeeson9386 Have someone hold the wire connector against a clean metal part of the engine (ground).
@@EXOVCDS brilliant thanks
I recently replaced the plastic thermostat housing on an 88 2wheel drive vanagon with an aluminum one. The aluminum housing is engineered to self ground. Mine is not grounding. I was wondering if you had any suggestions. Thanks.
Are you using teflon tape on the temperature sensor threads? Don't.
I did not use any sealant on the threads.
Hmm... Try sanding the contact surface of the flange where the bolt head makes contact. Could be that the flange has a coating that is not conductive. Place an ohm meter on the surface of the flange to check / verify continuity. Or attach a test light to the alternator + stud and touch the tip of the test light to the flange. If it doesn't light up, clean the contact surface where the bolt head makes contact or remove the flange and clean the surface where the flange meets the head.
Thomas EXOVCDS Great ides. Thanks once again. My thermostat housing is already installed. I am trying to avoid taking it off. It was a difficult install on my back with the van on ramps.
Ground the temperature wire elsewhere, to make sure that the needle works... for testing purposes.
What is the wire colour on the 1.6 diesel engine?
Probably the same... VW kept things pretty similar. It's a single wire sensor at the back of your cylinder head. You'll have 2... one for the glow plugs, the other for the gauge.
I just checked a wiring diagram... yellow/red wire.
Good work 👌
NORM!!!!!
😀
Cheers! Get it??? LOL
Yep I get it a lot 😁👌
Thank you! Where could I purchase the sensor?
At a local auto parts store (might have to order it in for you) or from an online source like this:
www.gowesty.com/search-results.php?search_phrase=temperature+sensor
Thomas EXOVCDS thank you! So much! Your videos are awesome! You helped me fix my speedometer from a previous video.
@@acdc8175 thank you for watching.
Thomas EXOVCDS quick question! Im little confused could you tell me the part number? I have an 86 with the 2.1l engine.
@@acdc8175 the sensor for the dash is a 2 wire black sensor. Look at your old sensor, determine which shape you have and then order from the link above. Part numbers are listed below the sensors.
Hello Thomas EXOVCDS , just wondering how to resolve my situation. I have an audi year 2000 tdi and having the same problem - needle doesn't move . My ECT sensor has 4 pins . How do I know wich ones is getting info to instrument cluster and wich ones to ECU . Want to make same as you - a bridge to see if the coolant gauge is moving to full hot. Can you help me ? Thanks
Two wires should be brown (with some other color)... bridge one of the 4 wires with one of the brown wires (key ON). If nothing happens, bridge the other colored wire to one of the brown wires. We don't didn't have 2000 Audi's with TDI engines, so I can not look at a wiring diagram.
@@EXOVCDS Is this safe to try? I mean, if i do the bridge to check for needle moving, the ECU or IC doesn't get burned or something , right? Thank you for all the info here!
Temperature Sensors are a common failure item... especially not showing temperature in the dash (or the needle drops down once the engine is warm and comes back up intermittently). I would just replace the sensor & o-ring. If you don't have a scan tool that can communicate with the instrument cluster (to activate output tests), have a look for someone in your area via this link (zoom in on your area to find someone):
www.maptive.com/ver3/VCDS_Locator
@@EXOVCDS I checked the cluster with vag-com output instruments , 2 times, and all gages including coolant gage move exactly to same positions. So looks that i do not have decalibrated gages. I just want to isolate the problem , doing exactly the test you do in this clip. I just want to know if making that bridge, the curent doesn't burn the ECU or cluster burned?. Thanks
@@nebunoaizer I didn't know you already used vag-com. You can not / will not fry anything.... as far as I know. Have someone look at the needle (ignition key is ON) and you briefly bridge the wires. You don't have to touch it a long time for the needle to move. High resistance = needle in cold position. Low resistance (bridged) = needle in high temperature position.
you have that knowlege!! That is why you looked so tired in your rant...
LOL... the screen "cropping / aspect" was a bit off. It made me look chubby. =)
All water pump new and thermostat new
Thank you 🙏 Tom I was able to bleed the system and now it’s running good
Thank you for the update!