Infinite Games You sound like one of those people who are against black representation all together. We care about well written characters that are *black* . That doesn't mean stereotypes, but it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be expressed
@@Scoring57 Sorry if my wording implied that. I'm not great at expressing my thoughts. What I'm saying is that story and character writing should be prioritized. Just because I'm against stereotypes in characters of POC, does not mean their culture can't be expressed. Again, I'm just having gripes on how black and POC are often stereotyped.
I think the reason they went for already existing characters is because those already have a fandom and media presence. You can piggyback on an already built emotional connection people have to that character. For a new character you gotta work to make it known and people have to bond with the character first.
Of all the things that were changed to be 'black' the most baffling to me is "Odin's fade" replacing "Odin's beard." Does.... does Marvel not realize black men also grow beards???
These people don't know who basketball player James Harden is. Granted, not everyone into sports knows who he is, but he's pretty damn famous for his beard.
Nothing compared to a non textured beard. You can’t even compare the majestic nature of white man beard culture. I’m sorry you just don’t beat nord blood at beards buddy. Jokes aside, They don’t want a black man bearded and that’s just their choice. I don’t do facial hair on textured characters much, let alone beards. Because it’s just not as common. Personal preference can be a factor…..
The fact that Asgard, a magical paradise, becomes a literal fucking ghetto when Miles becomes Thor is so unbelievably tone-def I don’t know how a single person at Marvel didnt shoot this down immediately. This is especially sad to see this happen to the character of Miles Morales, who in the last few years writers have managed to completely shed the stigma of “black Spider-Man” and really make him in to his own. Most importantly, giving us a POC character that is a realistic representation of the culture he represents without making it feel forced or out of touch.
@@mups4016 99% of the writers Miles has forget he's Puerto Rican and only focus on the black part because that gets them waaaay more brownie points. I think the playstation game is the sole exception because not even the movies allude to it. No way a competent writer would EVER allow Mile's mom to be okay with him dating a dimensional hopping, jobless, cradle crashing gringa. She'd be giving him the triple chancla style and making the beatings that Peter tends to get look like child's play.
@@ginger-ham4800 "not even the movies allude to it" wdym? Miles speaks Spanish quite a few times throughout the movies. And tbf it's not like they're gonna have him introduce himself as the half Latin spider-man, or did you want his webs to be made out of Adobo?
@@ginger-ham4800The movies do point out that he's half Puerto Rican. Especially the latest film across the spiderverse where his relationship with his mom is a focal point. They just do it in a natural way like having him speak Spanish.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
Now who said all of that?? I know you haven't talked to every African American, so idk why you're saying that as a blanket statement. I have a problem with stereotypical rep. So of course I'm going to have problems with a VERY stereotypical comic by a white/non black creator??
@@Nicejokeright Are you serious? Have you had a conversation with this person? You "haven't seen them talk about Tyler Perry." Maybe they do. Like, most black people DO NOT like that guy, nor do they like the representation we're constantly getting. It's always whatabouts and wherewereyous that discredit other people's perspective.
@@MENACE-km6bd Is there a reason why black people on television or the Internet keep behaving like ghetto idiots? Explain to me why King Bach and other TH-camrs like him became so popular by using stereotypes that you seem to dislike despite not saying anything against them? The same is true of black Tiktokers, who act ghetto and participate in stereotypes, and then get mad when a non-black Tiktoker does the same. Don't act like how people portray you if you want to be taken seriously.
@@MENACE-km6bd I’ve lived in 3 countries, 4 states (Az,Utah,FL,Texas) visited 3 other states (Louisiana, Montana, Georgia) Black people are not all the same. Just like any race, it’s culture influences the people. Due to the culture in America and it’s history, MOST AMERICAN black people raised here do act like a stereotype. Mainly in less affluent neighborhoods
What is really worse, that or having the best of intentions and still making this? Meaning you don't even realize how racism works or if you are one or not. I'd say the latter is harder to reach.
It just shows how ignorant they are and that if it came down to it, they’d guess their way into representation instead of asking Black people and assimilating into their culture like they would for any other cultural influence but nah, let’s just watch a hood movie and base our data on that. 😂😂😂Goddamn clowns!
Not really racist if it's done from ignorance instead of malice because the whole idea of racism is to knowingly cause harm, ignorance just means you don't know or aren't aware so the intent to harm isn't there and it isn't racist. Distasteful, sure, and this isn't something I'd allow off the drawing board I say Icon is a better example of a black superhero that needs more attention. In this particular case however, is racist, because it is woke glorifying one race over another and saying it is "fixed."
@@TheUnseenPath Being racist doesn't mean you're necessarily causing harm or have I'll intent, the writer is still being prejudiced and using racial stereotypes to define his characters.
My main OC is black (I am not) and she is apart of a large group of friends who are all different. Someone took my art and thought it was a TV show and made everyone white. They also stereotyped them! Thanks for posting this video! ❤️
Jesus, that’s just terrible. It’s disgusting that someone took your characters and rudely changed their respected skin colors. I’m sorry that happened to you, people are too lazy to make their own characters instead of stealing them from others
the graffiti thing is weird because miles is actually does do graffiti, but it’s used really well narratively for his character, instead of just “look he’s black” like in the thor comic
imagine if they did the same to other ethnicities: "By Odin's sombrero, I will smite you like how a toreador smites bulls" "His hammer is not halal for you" "shalom!" (has a hammer with a hat and hair curls)
@@ABlueOrb To explain(from my understanding): The usage of the term fade, in this context effectively means fighting capabilities. It is often used in phrases such as "catch this fade", meaning to fight. What this is essentially saying is "To fight with the skill/strength of Odin" At least that's what I'm assuming, this isn't really a phrase I ever thought about when it comes to meaning.
i really hate it when people argue that changing a characters race, gender or sexuality because they feel the need to fix the lack of representation. I like seeing characters as something different just for the fun of it, but not to "fix" a character who was never intended to be different, otherwise they'd already be that way.
Yeah, my issue with the "there, I 'fixed' it" it is the "fixed." It's just like with people redrawing art "better" to "fix" it. Nah, you didn't "fix" their art. You did your own, unique thing with it. You REPLACED the artist's intent with something different. Adaptations going different ways on the races of character? It depends on the character, and how core their racial identity was to their 'vibe.' Aragorn's skin color didn't matter a damn bit. The "correct" skintone for the VANAR is what the fuck ever. There isn't a "correct" skin color for mermaids. It's all case by case basis, though. You wanna do your own thing. Your headcanon is that Rigby is Black? Go ham, but, like WHENEVER headcanon comes up, remember that YOUR headcanon is not the ACTUAL canon, and don't get bent out of shape when the actual thing isn't YOUR thing. About 60% of the 'Ewww, Last Jedi was so awful' whining was just 'But /I/ would have--' Nobody gives a shit. You weren't writing it. If Disney wanted YOUR version, you'd be the one with a writing credit after they read your "far better" version on Ao3. Sorry they sunk your theory, but that's all it ever was.
@@aradraugfea6755 agreed its the "fixing" part i also have a problem because it implies that the characters race, color, gender identity etc is wrong and needed to be corrected. if you said it to an irl person that'd probably be some kind of ism or hate speech, i.e racism or something.
@Scout (Don't Eat the Waffles Webcomic) basically it would be so that there first hand knowledge on culture so it wouldn't come across dated or racist like this (and the whole point of this comic was culture) Also that is how you would avoid stereotypes as well
My college thesis was to design characters and animation for a video game that took place in the Shuar culture, an indigenous tribe from Ecuador's jungles. at the start i did it to get the teachers on my side and get my project approved. But once i started to do my research, i found all this crazy stories about their gods and history, and started to want to make them justice and not fall into stereotypes. One of the main points of my thesis was to make the story and characters as seen through the eyes of the culture and to not fall back on damaging preconceptions that people, like myself, had about the Shuar. I had to do ALL that shit to graduate, these dumbasses didn't even do the base step of consulting someone from the culture...
There's nothing wrong with the concept but like most things its the execution where the problems lie --Like a miles just being able to lift thors hammer would've sufficed ... They kinda went balls to the walls making the entire concept "black" which I find issue with because Asgard is supposed to be a Utopia yet it still looks like a hood ,which is weirdly implying a black utopia is like a street with a liquor store on the corner. I live that shit everyday I dont think it's a utopia .
@@YoureRightIThink Wakanda about to have the Leprechaun Back to tha hood treatment cause of this LMAO There’s gonna be the super racist pimps, the sex workers, the liquor stores getting held up, the works of every stereotype they can think of. I swear, if they have another “Odin’s fade” equivalent for Wakanda, the entire world is done for.
@@YoureRightIThink Well thats a *False Equivalence* Asgard *DOES* operate like Wakanda their both monarchies based around warrior culture and are effectively utopias in their own rights. The thing is ,Wakanda and the Black Panther are *for* people who have had their cultural backgrounds erased and is impossible for them to get it back-- Changing that would undercut the core philosophy. You can't say the same thing for Norse Mythology.
One of the things that really bothers me about this is that they say it’s miles morales, but they kept nothing of his original character. I would completely understand the graffiti hammer cause miles is depicted as an artistic person only did graffiti with his uncle once but did his own thing with stickers or on his sketch book. If they either had a scene of him putting the graffiti on because the stickers kept falling or if it was stickers on there not graffiti I’d understand so much more because then that’s just them sticking with miles as a character. But instead it’s just a stereotypical black male while using the miles morales name to make it seem “ok”
Kinda what I was thinking. They essentially took the skin of Miles and put it over Thor. The way he speaks and acts, his personality basically, wasn't there. So is he even Miles Morales at that point? There's a difference between Miles Morales having Thors different abilities and responsibilities and "Thor but Miles Morales". It didn't really feel like Miles.
As a black man when I said I wanted my people to feel included in comic books I didnt want it this way. What I wanted was new characters with interesting stories and personalities being created who would work alongside or against the already created old characters like Cap American. I didnt want just a colour swap and stereotypes mixed inside.
Sadly for Marvel ESPECIALLY for Marvel race swap a character and adding a bunch of superficial african accesories, worst thing is that theyre not even characters theyre just living "racism is bad psas"
Thats because Marvel would rather spin/reskin already popular white characters instead of taking a risk on new black characters or use the ones they already have.
@@BWXNB Sad thing is that they really weren't or shouldn't been, i mean I don't want a Black wolverine just so people would compare the too and hate and the black one for being forced and unnecessary for example which is inevitable. I prefer a new and original black superhero that could stand on his own, hell Marvel already has a ton of badasses like Blade who is like DEFINITION OF COOL, there's also the criminally underused Bishop, Like Cage, etc
There’s nothing wrong with the concept of Miles becoming Thor as it’s happened to plenty of others, but there’s no way this was even close to a sane idea, I mean imagine if Asgard had Live Laugh Love posters everywhere when Jane Foster became Thor. What if as a concept just means the same rules still apply with a slight change in events, so none of this should have ever happened.
And it's also not just Miles being Thor but literally all Asgard being black, like it's not just an individual character. So yeah they just made an entire Nordic civilization be afro, something I only used as an ironic example before and never thought they would actually do it
I am Scandinavian and I find it offensive. Its our whole culture, lore, mythology and way of living. If it was a random story then fine. But marvel took our mythology and turned it into a comic which is not even accurate for the most part. Its like whitewashing black panther. Its not right
@@YoureRightIThink well yeah that was my main point, how is it even possible for Asgard, a whole other realm as far as Marvel is concerned to be made into a earthly NY suburb just because Miles has the Hammer? It makes no sense whatsoever and seems like a joke of sorts which it was in the end. They should have scrapped this whole thing for a story that would actually make sense in any marvel universe.
@@shynique Whitewashing black Panther isn’t a very good comparison as being native African is central to his character and he’s nothing but a comic character, this is more like taking a god like Shiva and making the rest of Hinduism into a franchise which would be incredibly offensive, Marvel Comics has used Greek Gods as well as many other pantheons in the same way as Thor, even the Hindu pantheon but not in a main sense, just in brief comic panels to show that all the gods exist in the universe, but if Marvel Studios and Disney made major movies about Shiva and others for American audiences and it was very public, then you’d have a problem on your hands. With that being said I think public grasp of Norse mythology has been utterly damaged by Marvel no matter what way you look at it.
One of my favorite lines in the new spider verse movies was when his mom said “I heard the new Spider-Man is Puerto Rican.” And miles jumps up and says “nah I’m pretty sure he’s Dominican.” That line got me
@Luis Suazo ????? is this just in your area or something because where i live “half-blood” is something only heard in harry potter, whereas mixed is in great usage by everyone of every background. also what if someone is three or more ethnicities?
This might be an unpopular opinion but I actually really like the black sister from Promised Neverland. Her story (whether on purpose or not) portrays the constant struggle of black women and how they always get passed over no matter how hard they work. She gets portrayed as hyper masculine, overly strong, while the main sister is seen as graceful sweet soft and kind. But in the end she literally helps the kids escape. Idk I really liked her
It was actually a nice dichotomy between the two cuz while Isabella looked soft and sweet she was the truly wicked one of the two. And while I do understand why ppl might side-eye her visuals she was fundamentally a very well written character which isn't something I can say for a lot of modern black characters in US comics and TV shows.
@@fatalblue now as someone who loves promise of never land (not the ending) I love sister Krone as a character. She is amazing. However I don’t like the design because she just looked too out of place in that art style . Like if you didn’t know who the character was from you wouldn’t be able to recognize her as a character in n Promise of Neverland because the art style is too different. Critiques of Mr. Popo aside looking at his clothes and character model you know he’s from dragonball. I feel like the artist wanted to show black features but didn’t know how to translate that into their art style (Lavendertowne did a really good video of how she would make sister krone design look like it’s in the same art style as every other character) cause to be fair her character model could possibly work in other more cartoony style like maybe One Piece or something else and wouldn’t probably be offensive( in other angles she looks fine ). It’s just looks worse by comparison to the other characters. Because by that art style standard it looks more exaggerated. TLDR Krone is a good character I just wished the artist knew how to draw black ppl in their own style.
This (suddenly)reminds me of the cybersix comic critique from thoughtslime! The characters are painfully racist stereotypes but they're not treated as one dimensional. I haven't seen this anime, probably won't, but the artist is so wrong for that & shouldn't get a pass tbh. Like artists can't keep getting away with stuff like that
@@spilledteaissadtea3037 idk the way she's drawn fits the anime to me. It doesn't look cartoony to me..she just has bigger lips than everyone else.... Promise Neverland has kinda bad art over and I think sister Krone makes it more obvious. Their mouths are way to high up their faces. Their faces overall are awkwardly placed on the heads. I also love one piece and I think its a disservice to sister Krone to say she'd fit better in One piece. Like the main black person in One piece is Ussop... he literally has sausage lips.
It didn't help that sister Crone was absolutely creepy. But black butler had great representation of Indian culture with Soma and Agni. They actually educate and share their culture with English characters. Even during the curry cook-off Ciel had Soma taste the curry Sebastian made so they'd get it right. Seriously it's great, my friend who's Indian actually said that she loves how the two were written and she even learned some stuff about curry that her family doesn't add to it
On the other hand her presense means that the deamons don't discriminate, not having black folks in your human inteligence breeding program would be geninly racist.
Sister Krone resembles strongly a Sambo doll or similarly offensive figure from the mid-1800s and early 1900s. Whether or not it was intentional, Japanese artists seem to have ingrained cultural perceptions of what a stylized black person looks like. Yes, they’ve gotten better, and yes, the US is no different, but I think it’s worth pointing out that a lot of Krone’s creepiness comes from her exaggerated faces, which emphasize her already not great eyes, nose, and lips.
Black Butler did a good job on representation, but it doesn’t excuse how creepy it is. From the way the author drew Sebastian and Ciel in some scenes, or how it was originally gonna be a yaoi 😬
@@lovelycloudyskies this was supposed to be a Yaoi? 😳 and I was wondering why there was constantly this weird friction between the two😂 it was like queer baiting 😂
Static Shock will always be my go to as a good representation of a POC hero dealing with relevant issues. Which is why I both want and fear a Static Shock reboot/continuation. The issues Virgil dealt with back then are issues we are still fighting to change today. Imagine if they took OG Virgil, aged him up to his mid 20s, and had him deal with current issues?
This comment reminded me of how Comic Drake mentioned a comeback of Static Shock a while ago and I had to google it. There is a continuation/reboot. Made by the original creators, with concepts/ideas/influences from the original comic line aswell as the animated series. "Milestone Returns" is the first part of this new comic line-up, released on September 13, 2020. The stories take place on Earth M (non-canon to the DC Universe). But I can't say weither it's good or not.
I’d hope the “current issues” could be more of a hidden meaning, because I’m tired media especially movies and shows telling us about the same current issues. Kinda like the movie “Bright”. Yea it was a bad movie but it was cool how they spoke about race and police through fantasy
I don't think static shock will have a reboot or a continuation or a solo show I remember someone saying DC doesn't own full copyright of him since his character was made by another company,the closest thing we'll get is him as a side character
They could've either done something diving into actual African mythology, or something where Miles found the hammer and became The Mighty Thor instead of Spiderman. Instead they went with the worst option in between the two.
Actually exploring African mythology would be really freaking interesting, funny how all the "woke" stuff claims to empower people while entirely ignoring or insulting their culture. I want to see non-european cultures get expressed more, instead of European culture just shoe-horning other peoples into it to "empower" them, the ignorance and irony of so much stuff lately is painful...
i want to say the how to train your dragon series has good disability representation. because the main character develops a physical disability but then it just shows him coping with it and adjusting to life with it with some accommodations. but it doesnt make him out to be like a hero with superpowers for ‘overcoming’ a disability or some crap like they always do for disabled characters that is really annoying and not good representation.
But aren't disabilities annoying to get accustomed to? Like you wanted him to lose his leg then nothing just credits? I think overcoming the limitations of a disability Is good representation. Like autistic children, learning a unique skills is overcoming their disability.
@@robertgarcia5102 Hiccup does learn to overcome it and grow accustomed to it however it's not his defining character trait, it's simply a part of who he is. It's not something to be praised or treated like he's lesser or better. He's treated the same even with the adversity of his missing leg. It's still a visible struggle we see, but it's not all he is effectively. That's what a lot of representation misses out on nowadays, effectively they try and represent a group by being overtly representative without actually considering that there is room for a diverse yet deep and interesting character.
@@robertgarcia5102 i don't understand your comment? i said that he copes with it and adjusts to life with it with some accommodations. which is more realistic way to deal with having a disability than some other media portrayals
@@QUEERVEEART it is the "but" in your first comment and the idea about disability representation. First the disability rep is a weird idea. @Emmanuelomego is understanding that. Just let the character be the character, not a caricature of the disability. Like a pirate is a pirate; the limbs missing from the pirate doesn't make him a "limb-less pirate"... understand. So your "but" made it seem like overcoming a difficulty is "not enough" for a character. There needed to be "more" representation. Which made no sense to me.
Editors: "what do you mean it's not representative? I have a black friend who said that this comic was a good idea." This is where Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker totally agree representation must be natural and organic not some checklist.
I bet all the black friend was told was just the premise and nothing else. Of course it sounds good on paper, until it's executed and we get this bullshite
Prince of Egypt was the first time I remember seeing a piece of media that had more than one PoC (especially with diversity in hair and nose types) and I still adore the art style to this day
@@latteistrash the veggie tales count as well. But for bible movies that are trying to be accurate ( without obscuring things a little for kids) all others ones are garbage and dream works did then only best ones Veggietale movies rule though.
Have to say one of my favorite portrayals of black character in a recent anime that I've seen is Baki. It came out of nowhere for me. When that big old brother showed up I expected them to make him a walking stereotype like so many black characters in anime. But they were respectful, incredibly respectful. In fact the second season had Muhammad Ali's son as a main character and they were just as respectful to his character and the character representing Muhammad ali.
I genuinely do not understand why it's so hard for these people to actually hire a black author and artist when they want to portray black culture. Or at least take their time talking to black people to make sure these kinds of things don't happen. Seriously wtf.
I mean, I dunno. I would think hiring people with talent who cares is more important and beneficial than just hiring them cause they are black. Especially since black people can also make poor products with black people and stereotype themselves
@@SpectreBagels There is no dichotomy between being black and being a good author. There are plenty of great black authors. And the original comment said that the authors should at least do their research, even if they aren't black. I have no problems with a non-black person writing a black character, as long as they do a good job, this comic wasn't a good job, lol.
@@youareloved1455 Ok, I never said that there weren't good black creator. I specifically said that they shouldn't be hired just cause they are black, which is clearly the part of the comment I took issue with. That the basis shouldn't be, "you're black so you'll write good black characters", since black people can be poor writers and portray the exact stereotypes people have issue with. So them saying that they should at least do research if they aren't doesn't matter to what I was moreso talking about, and I already covered that part in the 1st sentence of my comment. Being a person with talent who cares would be a person who did research or asked for references. Also wasn't defending this comic, of course it was poor
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
I believe that a writer of any race can write a character of any race, provided the proper research is made, because ultimately we all share the human condition. But yes, I can definitely see this comic as an argument for everybody "staying in their lane". It reads like a psyop by the bad guy from Black Dynamite or Undercover Brother.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
@@MENACE-km6bd Assuming looks ugly on you because it gets you nowhere without any evidence to support it, otherwise. You might as well say you don't have a valid counterargument and move along
@@Nicejokeright Ok so the stereotypes in Tyler Perry movies are pretty bad, reason people don't see a problem usually is cause he's black and they're used for comedic reasons and most people don't take it seriously. And when someone white does it it's seen as them trying to belittle black people and say they are stupid, violent, ignorant, ect. Reason for this thought process in my opinion is because of minstrel shows where people would do blackface and make fun of black people. It's kind of a double standard but there's a million of those already.
@@reydelsol2753 Exactly you hit the nail on it's head. It's kinda like the n word in a way, when black people encourages white people to say the n word but then gets mad or shocked when they actually say it. It doesn't make sense to me, if black people don't like it when others say it then why say it at all?
The problem isn't that they were white people who wrote this. The problem is that they were bad writers coming from a not very insightful place. White people have written great black characters before, like black people have written great white characters. People shouldn't be afraid to explore a character who doesn't look like them, or doesn't come from the same back ground as them as long as they do it with respect. Using stereotypes as your leading example is a poor decision to say the least, but it's not just white people susceptible of making that mistake. Everyone is.
Honestly like some ppl can't understand that any non-caucasian can still have the same personality and character background as a Caucasian character. Like both go through birthdays and both have normal-people names and normal-people traits. Just cause their skin is different doesn't mean their entire life story is gonna revolve around their skin, or more specifically, their skin's stereotypes.
Sophia Insanity With more calls for black people to represent themselves in media, I don't think you're doing black people a service by advocating for the opposite. No one is saying it's impossible for people to write other races, but it certainly reduces the chances of it ending in a disaster when you allow black people to represent themselves given that there's larger negative association with black people than other groups.
@@Scoring57 I'm not advocating for the opposite. I'm saying that people shouldn't be afraid to write people that aren't them. It also heavily depends on the nature of the story you want to tell. If you want to do a social commentary it's essential to do your research to correctly convey the livelyhood of the people you're writing of for example, and of course a person who's actually lived through it would do a better job at telling it. But other than that, you'll just have to write a good character that will serve the story you want to tell. If your setting is in space fighting alien beasts, you put your mindset on what it's like for your character to be in space fighting alien beasts. We as humans all have different experiences, some due to the color of our skin, but I don't need to be black to know what a black character would feel like to lose someone they love, or blast down an alien ship, or engage in a sword fight, or navigate a scary cave for example. Ironically enough we're segregating each other more and more by being made to believe you can only put yourself in the shoes of someone who looks like you.
I agree that anyone of any race can write anyone else (as an aspiring writer I can and will do so), but I do believe them being bad writers is compounded with them being white in this type of situation. The reason that it matters that people of a race/culture to be the ones writing that story is so they can do it with respect and nuance (usually). There are too many examples of white people writing POC horribly because they hyper-fixate on the race of the character and proceed to write the character based on their pre-conceptions of POC rather than as a person (which is racist). I've seen similar writing like this for men writing women. Yes, everyone can make mistakes like this, I agree with that too. It's the reasoning behind these mistakes that also matters though.
This is why I tend to avoid inserting real world cultures altogether. I doubt I could accurately depict my own culture without making it a bad stereotype, let alone do a good job with another.
A fair idea, though even then we can get bothered by people nitpicking coincidental similarities, or in other words, some people will look for any excuse to complain even if it's not fair or reasonable to do so. That said, yeah, this comic deffinitly deserves a bit of a slap for the bad handling of things here, if they want a "POC Thor" they should delve into African Mythology instead as it would have a chance to not only make more sense but also be far more empowering
we all have stereotypes and they exist for a reason. there may be outliers or its something you never sat down and thought about but if you did, probably would realize beneath every stereotype is kernel of truth.
It’s pretty bad especially when it’s at that time’s _current_ slang. By the time, it’s already dated. The show _Totally Spies_ knew this from a fashion perspective and actually made a fusion of styles so that it’s it’s own universe’s fashion. This can happen but it needs special care, effort and personal investment for making a rich history and culture that honors the derivative culture it’s borrowing from. But that would take too much work for these guys and they’d rather just go on autopilot copying and making additions to lore they’re already used to. Can’t leave it to them.
It is always the writers getting blamed. But somebody told the writers to write this. Dozens of people looked at what the writers wrote and thought it was okay (or they all thought it was wrong, but nobody wanted the first to speak up.) This is the exact type of content Marvel wants.
any black character atsuhi ohkubo writes is top tier, he just treats the characters as he treats any other character regardless of race or ethnicity or gender, yes even gender fan service goes both ways in his stories and Ogun liking Reggie instead of rap honestly surprised me
well the jordans and graffiti makes sense since he wears jordans in alot of media and graffiti is a big part of his character, but him mentioning fades every 2 seconds and hanging sneakers like theyre towels is just.. wild
@@youareloved1455 Just for the sake of the larger conversation, let's not forget that there's a difference between mythology and people's lived experience. One aspect of that is that being Scandinavian is much less of a guarantee for getting Norse mythology right than being African American is for getting that lived experience right. The level of harm of getting either of these wrong also isn't at all the same between the two.
@@christianknuchel this is especially true for the younger Scandinavians who probably grew up with the Marvel movies. I (almost four decades old) grew up with the stories about the actual mythology from kindergarten, especially since my teacher in 4th-6th grade was cool enough to go a bit more in depth about them. I probably wouldn't be able to do the mythology justice without doing a refresher course, but I still have a good base sense of it. That said, there are a lot of racists who just claim "Norse" heritage as an excuse to be racist and get outraged at an already severely warped comic book version getting the added detail of not being "white", without actually having a decent understanding of our history and actual mythologies. Additionally, the raiders (i.e. vikings) frequently even kidnapped people to up here from all sorts of places to be serfs or their wives, everything from England, to Russia, and further down, and those serfs married and had families and descendants. Sweden's Queen is even decended from a French dude who got invited to be our king. Neither the vikings nor Scandinavians are as genetically "pure" as a lot of racists image.
Crazy idea: write characters first, pick their race afterwards. It's difficult to understand, I know, but people's race isn't actually a central component to how they are as a person (it is quite shocking I know)
this sound AWESOME, friend. As a Vietnamese person, I always feel like the only thing people know about my country is soft and feminine Vietnamese women in Ao Dai, meanwhile my female classmates (I'm a student) not all of them are like that. There are tomboys, cute girls, attractive girls, and also mediocre ones. They all have different values, which IS NOT COME FROM OUR ASIAN RACE. (of course it does affect us, but not 100%).
Sorry this is a very immature take. You're American or kids, clearly. Who we are is a result for our experiences, values, and culture. Our race, nationality, and socioeconomic status defines that. "Write characters, race later" is something people who have no understanding of culture say.
@@itsgonnabeanaurfrommeow, not only condescending, but racist. Two strikes. While I agree that heritage and culture - which are undoubtedly tied to race in *some* regards - *can* define a character, it doesn’t *have to* (e.g., almost every Caucasian-American character). Also, just so we’re clear, CHARACTER COMES BEFORE RACE *ALWAYS.*
@@someonetooksorrow Condescending? Sure. Racist? Hell no. He is absolutely right. Our experiences determine what kind of person we grow up to be, and that does include our race, culture, country, but also things like family, financial situation, environment, etc... Op worded it a bit bad but he definitely wasn't trying to say that race is the only thing that determines it. he was saying that it does largely contribute to it, although for some people less and for some people more it really does depend. Also if you are a writer you can't just say "Character comes before race", while you shouldn't write a character this or that way JUST because of their race, you can't write their race before or after you write the character themselves, you have to write them at the same time when you write the character if you get what I mean. It is stupid to say "Yeah I want a mexican here" and then write a stereotypical mexican just for the sake of having a mexican, but it is also stupid to write an entire character adn then at the end say "Oh yeah and he is also mexican". Neither of those approaches work out.
I dont think this is real a "what if miles was thor" comic because nothing about it ties to miles it's a "what if thor was black but we dont want to have a title that blatant so we'll tie it to a dark skinned character whose popular" This would make more sense if it was "what if Luke cage was thor" but even then its way off since cage grew up in the 80s/70s
One thing extra painful about this is the fact that Miles Morales is such good representation in his original form. So not only are they disrespecting african american culture they are disrespecting their own character.
Disney channel has been doing surprisingly well as far as representation in some of their cartoons in the last few years. Luz from owl house is Afro-Latina (and gay), Anne from amphibia is Thai-American, and the ghost and molly McGee just recently had a whole episode about Molly’s fear of being out of touch with her “Thai-ness”
Here's something they could've done Have him go through his same Spider-Man Storyline, but as Thor Being Clumsy, Needing to get used to everything, having him take down Loki for the first time Basically, that lovable, endearing side of Miles that people enjoy and can relate to of living up to expectations (Yes, this is kinda leaning towards Spider-Verse Miles, however Spider-Verse is amazing so I don't regret it)
This whole situation highlights another problem I feel writers have: Having to represent the cultures and ethnicities the character are from. A lot of people think that if you make a character that's a less represented ethnicity or culture, that the story HAS to be about it. The truth is... it really doesn't. You can have characters of different color and culture and just have them be a character in the story. Sometimes this can even be a better option as it shows these people as just that: people. Of course do a bit of research so you know what NOT to do, but you don't have to make your black charatcer about being black and do... whatever the hell this comic is. As someone with Austim, i'd love to see more autistic characters in media. I'd love to see people's takes on them and how they put them in a story. I just ask that they don't be tone deaf about it and give us another emotionless robot (both figuratively and literally.) Make a charatcer, not a stereotype. It takes like 10 minutes of research it's not that hard.
Exactly thats why i find things like Jax ending in MK11 extremely tone deaf because it shows that to them Jax is just the black guy and nothing else. Its something that the boys criticized really well with A train on season 3
Wow, this is such a good point. What you say is true. A foreigner that live for a long time in a country actually has better understanding of the culture and language than someone who is native but come back after few years gone to different country. This is actually real life scenario because some foreigners who grow up in here speak better Balinese than the native (and me lol)
I don't see a problem with a character embracing their culture. Many people wear it proudly on their sleeves, sometimes due to historical oppression (Puerto Ricans used to be jailed for being patriotic). The real problem is writing a culture you don't know, when your story is about said culture but you already knew that.
It’s literally 2022. Why are people still using stereotypes? We can’t get actual nice stories and stuff anymore cause people think that stereotypes can help their story 🤦🏾♀️
You need to call out these folks who think making a character black or & fat because the original character is too pretty or as they say unrealistic pretty is super insulting regardless of their intent.
My only issue here is including Mr.Popo as a black steryotype Him and Jynx (the pokemon) get that alot, but they are based off of a japanese folklore thing. But Toriyamas early tries at making actual black people looked racist as a mf 🤣🤣
Mr popo is also from a series that is almost 40 yrs old, most of us didnt even exist. I doubt toriyama had ever heard the word "blackface" back then. In comparison the promised neverland has no excuse.
I been saying Marvel needs to do a total reboot because it's messy right now. There's no consistant point of entry for newer people at all. If they don't realize the reason why Manga busts their ass is consistany and ease of entry. Give that to people they WANT that. Don't follow MCU's dogshit canon. Pull it back make it known that Thanos and the Secret Wars happened. Just pick up where it isn't as complex.
Not gonna lie, if I had to read the first draft of this comic, I would not be able to stop myself from laughing because it honestly looks like a joke. Odin’s fade got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
10:53, after playing the Witcher games and reading their books I saw how many interesting Polish myths and monsters there were. Then imagining a whole _continent's_ worth of those from Africa just makes me wish I saw more of those stores (not including Egypt which I've already been bombarded with stories of lol).
Agreed, heck, we only ever see maybe 2% of the interesting cultures and mythologies of the world stuck on repeat, there's so much out there to explore and all we see is a few European and a couple non-european mythologies stuck on repeat. It gets kinda depressing...
And their farms only producing water melons, and the utopia city store (which is based off a fuck hood- as if poverty is utopia) only having a section dedicated to kool aid. It's awful, as if POC are completely different entities from Caucasians and other races ... Can't see them as Individual . Stereotypes are ridiculous
Representation is really important to us as an organisation/company, and I'm glad we at least have examples like this to learn from. I really do wish more companies could be better about this sort of thing, and hope that they're seeing these mistakes and trying their best to avoid making them again. Thanks for the insight by you and other TH-camrs on topics like this one! - The asyncollective founder
This sucks cause I love Miles Morales and even if he’s a “black spin off” of spider man, as a character he’s relatable as hell and from a story telling perspective the writers leaned into that by making him interact with different versions of Spider-Man in the comics and in Spiderverse so that he didn’t feel forced but like a natural addition to the MCU! It’s so stupid too do the story this way because if they wanted to do “what if Miles Morales is Thor?” there’s many many ways to go about it without making every character a “hood stereotype” or having this cringy dialogue! First of all, I’m guessing these writers don’t understand Norse mythology at all, which is why they would decide to swap Miles and Thor in the first place, despite them having very different backgrounds. Norse mythology is inherently European, meaning there wouldn’t be anything related to AMERICAN life in it! But, it’s also ANCIENT which means NOTHING SHOULD BE MODERN! Rap, hood references or fades inherently don’t fit in this setting and adding them HERE makes it feel forced and further stereotypes the black characters that are already being scrutinized for replacing white characters. If they wanted Miles to be Thor from the start, which is honestly the most BORING way to do things (because Thor’s hero origin story isn’t even about where he comes from, it’s about him learning to be the hero he was meant to be through struggles and losses) then he needs to fit into ancient and non-American hairstyles, speech and mannerisms. But because this is a what if comic why not make it interesting? Have it where Thor dies and Miles inherits Mjolnir instead of Peter Parker dying and Miles becoming spider man?! Make Miles go through the same goofy scenarios where he’s crashing through walls as he gets dragged by the hammer similar to when his spider powers were activated the first time! Have him meet the avengers and mourn the loss of a great hero, while also being told he’s just a kid and he’s not ready for it! Even have Cap try to take the hammer away from him, only for that act in itself to no longer make Cap worthy and only Miles! Hell, have Loki hate Miles for taking his brother’s hammer (which Loki may want to possess himself) where he laughs at how pathetically ill-equipped Miles is to fight him and then kicks the crap out of him only for Miles to have a big power up moment and yell “I am worthy” before kicking Loki’s ass!!!
@@spectre9340 I think that was what happened and that made Miles more unique. I hoestly thought the first decade of Miles's stories were kind of mediocre to decent with not much that was outstanding. Largely because he wasn't really too different from Peter when he was younger. Smart, moody, angsty but black/latino. The only new that he offered is that he had different familial ties as opposed to frail aunt May. Spider-verse attempted to give him some more unique characteristics like making him a lover of music and art. I hope they incorporate more of that backwards into the comics.
You’d think this What If book would be like “what if Miles inherited these other heroes’ mantles instead of Spider-Man’s” but no, the book so far is just “what if these heroes were literally the exact same but they happened to have the name Miles Morales”.
I mean, that's pretty much the standard. Companies being "diverse" only through the colors of their fictional characters while their board and writing rooms all remain the same. The result is really no surprise... The general lack of differing ideologies and backgrounds also never helps
I burst out laughing when I saw the frost giant with a fade, and imagining the lengths this ice giant has to go through just get a haircut. It must've taken months just to finish one side of head.
I love how most big companies just race swap a character and call it a day. Instead of just, y'know, coming up with an original character. But no, that would take effort and creativity, let's just upset anyone who doesn't want classic characters to be messed with while also upsetting anyone who wanted characters that were of a similar skin color to them by making it purely stereotypes. Big corporations are full of clowns
@@CajunReaper95 Sure, but a problem I see with multiverse as a "fix" is that no matter what, the one from the "other" universe will always be compared to the original one. In your example it would be comparing Miles to Peter, and I personally ended up liking Miles as a character more than Peter, though that might be a personal gripe of mine with how Peter is handled as a character (I mean the constant resetting him back to being poor and alone, or being with MJ even if he was with someone he meshed with better.) Besides that, there also seems to be a trend of doing it in one direction only, we don't really get those "what ifs" with T'Challa, or someone like Scarlet Witch as a guy, if you know what I mean. Once an accident, twice a coincidence, three times a pattern.
Also i feel like a lot of westerners watching anime overlook the fact it comes from east asia thus most of the characters are inherently east asian, especially if the story is based in japan. for example the popular demon slayer is not only set in 20s japan but also rooted deeply in japanese culture. it explores themes of family relations, especially siblings relationship that ive seen often appears weird to the american audience. we cry for representation yet tend to ignore it i guess
Fun fact to make this better/worse, Miles' creator is italian. So yeah, writers aren't excused from making poor representation because of cultural stereotypes/not being part of a community: and I would love for all creators to homage one another, but that seems to fade all the way into obscurity.
As a brazilian i know how it is to have almost no representation, and when you finally are represented in media is something like Blanka from Street Fighter
Your line at the end about adding subtle nods to another culture within a culture is not only correct but actually historical. I recall watching a vid by a black YT'er who explores Victorian era history/fashion from a black prospective who explained how even though black women wore same/simlar style dresses to their white counterparts they would add subtle modifications that nodded to their cuture like adding colorful/pattern borders on their skirt and sleeves. It would've been cool to see a Asgard with light shades of that urban style rathen then the hamfist reverse we got. They also could have gotten away with some rap style dialog too since Viking culture does have a history of sung epics. The more I think about it the more I feel in better hands you could craft a compelling setting that blended Asgard with Miles' NYC.
An anime that I enjoy that talks a lot about issues immigrants face all while focusing on these two girls' music is Carole and Tuesday. I strongly recommend this anime as I think it helped me understand issues immigrants face and how it talked about corrupt politicians and the anime overall had great representation with disabled characters, POC, queer characters, immigrants, etc.
I kind of disagree. It's pretty and well executed. But that's all. I feel its just fantastically dressed up but still shallow as a commentary on immigration. I think it works really well as a simple plot of trying to succeed in the music scene. But the subtext of immigration was only lightly explored. To me, it's artificially integrated into the plot to justify a concert as a satisfying finale
castlevania had a great character in isaac. he was a complex and interesting character, full deck of cards in emotion, reasoning, loyalty and internal conflict. after season 2 i only clocked back in to check on how his arc and dispute with hector would develop and end.
Luther tv series. I hate that there are some articles that try to “fix” Luther by stereotyping or saying that Luther isn’t black enough but a normal person. Like isn’t this the point? That black people are normal people or I’m missing something
10:16 I might be misunderstanding that tweet, but I terribly disagree with that first part. It would be very boring, unrealistic, and even a little insensitive if every single European writer never made a story with a single Black character. I think we can agree that most people could write a black character better than whatever *this* is.
Really good vid. My very first thought when hearing this concept "What if Miles was given the power of Thor" was not completely rewriting the Thor mythos and crowbarring "blackness" into their back story -- but instead changing the part of Miles' story from where he got bit by a spider to where he found/gifted/earned the power of Thor. Miles isn't Miles without being a smart Black and Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn and everything that comes along with those circumstances and experiences. I feel like that's the first and major misstep (beyond the poor writing) in this entire concept and why it feels so completely off-base and inauthentic. Not to say that this couldn't have been simply just written better by someone else, it's just a strange and risky (as we can see) to strip out huge areas of context and storytelling and try to make new ones yourself without knowing really why it was great in the first place. In the same way that other humans & aliens became worthy and got to wield the hammer, do the same for Miles and see how things unfold differently with the powers of the thunder god. What an odd choice for a what if story.
Speaking specifically of how Orishas could be excellent material for fantasy and comic books, I highly recommend the work of a brazilian artist called Hugo Canuto. The guy has a whole project going on with that exact premisse and it's awesome
The only thing I think should stop happening when it comes to black characters, is the white lips or very light lips. Have you ever seen a black person with white lips? I haven’t so why do they keep doing that!!!
Some good one for representation was that I have seen that you didn’t mention were Blackish, and 911 I’d also love to hear ur opinion on the main character from Forespoken as I felt like her character was super stereotypes driven like the what if miles but wasn’t completely sure Also thank you for talking about this as it really motivates me as a screenwriter to write good characters and not doing anything like what you have described as that enrages me so frickin much
It's actually really sad that a lot of african stories did not survive to present day. 1) Majority of folk stories and myth were passed on orally 2) Good-ol-fashion colonialism 3) Colonialism could have theoretically improve the preservation of these stories with the introduction of western concepts like literacy and archiving practices....... If they actually cared about the people and their stories
We gotta realize that there was a process to this. A writer had to come up with the idea, storyboard it, then an artist had to draw sketches, and somebody else had to ink it, then yet another person had to color it, another person added effects (so in total like at least 4 people just in that art pipeline, along with a bunch of assistants). Then the dialogue had to be added. And in no part of this HUGE pipeline was a black person involved (because if there was, there would be no way this bs would be finalized), and nobody involved thought this was a wee bit cringe and maybe slightly racist (from their perspective, because any normal person can see that this is VERY cringe and VERY racist). PS: just realized I missed the part where they had to go to a publisher and get the comic book out there (needles to say, a lot of people involved in that too)
I feel like switching up superheroes or characters to give them new ethnicities or genders can work. It can be fun, it can help you take the story in a new direction you couldn't have done with the original hero. And heck that is even how Miles started. I just think thought needs to be put into it "how does being from that background give this new character different perspectives and experiences", it's all something that needs to be thought through.
The old Justice League animated TV show actually did pretty well, I think ( their Green Lantern, John Stewart, was black, where up until the show came out the character in comics had been white). There's actually a thread went around - on twitter, I think? - showing the influence of a writer desperately working against a clueless producer to make the character less racist, as well as fighting to give the character a darker skin tone, and SUCCEEDING in both, and then being frustrated and asking why, when they made a Green Lantern movie, they chose the relatively unknown Hal Jordan, a white Green Lantern from the comics rather than the recognized and well liked John Stewart Green Lantern from the animated TV show that damn near every kid from the early 2000s knew and loved. DC could have had the first major black superhero movie but they decided a white guy was safer and then proceeded to make what is considered one of the worst superhero movies of the modern era... Edit: after serious google shenanigans I found a transcript of the interview from that writer. It's posted as an image on reddit for some reason, I'm sure there's a better link somewhere but all the DC Green Lantern stuff really messes with search results when you're trying to find a specific quote or interview and don't know the exact source www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/ufqpta/other_an_amazing_interview_with_neal_adams_on_the/
Malediction Wolf John Stewart is the perfect example of a black character that doesn't shy away from being black but is done right. But predictably a lot people seem to want to use this as a reason to demonize showing the race of a black character in any meaningful way. A lot of people like to deny this when it's convenient, but John Stewart *sounded* like a black person (cause you can sound like that) and he talked like how many black people would talk. Same with cyborg from teen titans. They all had their race represented and acknowledged, instead of being a blank slate that's assimilated into white culture like some people seem to want. Obviously there's a good way and bad way to do it. Just cause it's done the bad way doesn't mean you get to attack the representation of black cultures.
Hal Jordan is the original Green Lantern, John Stewart replaced him at some point in the comics, they later came to operate as Green Lanterns simultaneously. It's also worth noting that Captain Marvel is kind of a shameless ripoff of Hal, having several bits of overlap in their backstories.
Yeah I also remember that green lantern. I wasn’t much of a DC watched when I was little because I was REALLY young, but my brothers watched a lot of DC so whenever they put stuff on I watched with them too. That’s why I was confused when I saw a white green lantern later lol.
People saying "this is fire" is a real thing though. But yeah I agree that everything else is really awkward. Except the graffiti because Miles Morales likes street art and paints graffiti with his uncle
I def agree with most of your points, but I think the point of the graffitied hammer is because Miles likes to spray paint. It was something he did with his uncle. Considering how talented he is artistically, they for sure could have made a better homage to his artistry. In the case of the comic, it absolutely does come across as “get it? He’s black!” And not “he’s an artist and one of his preferred mediums is spray paint!”. Very upsetting
Carole and Tuesday has amazing representation!!! The characters don’t feel like shallow stereotypes of the group they are apart and the music is amazing. I’m also happy you didn’t just call this “woke” without explaining why you feel that way. because when I watch people “criticize “ a certain media they just say it’s woke and bad without explaining how it’s woke in any way. Amazing video
If this was well made it would be so awesome though, imagine Miles with his actual personality being destined to be king of Asgard, when his character arc being spiderman already focuses so much in expectations and overcoming fear. Seeing that character arc extrapolated into another world would be so interesting, yet they had to make this joke of a comic book, I hope they remake this one day and make it actually good.
How to make a good black character: 1. Make a good character 2 . Make them black They can't even do that but they want to be a "comic artist" Since DC Rebirth I've stopped reading comics because it was bad (BWL was good though) and when I see that stuff I'm glad I did 😭😭😭 Also an Asian Thor w/a rice hat could be cool if the design is coherent like Raiden mixed with Shang-Chi (like those black samurai hats) but they'll probably ruin it so nah
@@nameillprobablyregret6533 I mean they had a guy named Miles Morales but stopped at "he's African American so let's look for every stereotype that we can find 😎" Y'all Puerto Ricans dodged that bullet because they too ignorant to think deeper than that 😂😂 I don't to curse y'all though so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut ☠️☠️
Mwa Ka So what makes this a bad black character? Because mentioning samurai hats and 'raiden' sounds like it should be a 'bad' asian character. It feels like certain people who have a general aversion to any representation of black culture want to use a bad example as a reason why you shouldn't represent a black characters race at all in any meaningful way.
@@Scoring57 I think you misunderstood what I've said. When I mentioned Raiden it was about his character design, what he looks like not the character itself I gave samurai hats as an example but there is a ton of asian originated hats (like kasas, salakót, ngob, belo and others) that could be used to make a cool looking Asian Thor without making it racist or stereotypical The point of my comment was that even if they had tons and tons of material to take inspiration from they would still find a way to fuck it up and make it racist or ignorant in some way
I love modernizing mythology, but this was just not it. So much more could've been done man, as a comic artist myself the lack of creativity when it came to exploring other cultures and resulting to stereotypes hurt
This is not the main topic, however something that kinda relates to the wider issue. When one writes poc characters in a fantasy setting, is “okay” to not take references from real world black culture and issues specifically affecting these groups since the setting would be different. For example creating a world where the people don’t care about skin colour and share one general culture, or would that erase the entire meaning behind the characters and end up being discriminatory to the groups in question? I’d greatly appreciate responses.
Ofc its okay lol. The idea that a black led LOTR style story HAS to deal with stuff like racism or issues specifically related to black folks is silly imo. Its literally reducing minorities to their struggles and skin color alone. It also ignore that even within a group ppl can have different experiences. Fantasy/SciFi is the lasr places POCs should feel obligated to adhire to reality.
If you're creating a world then you are also free to create the politics and such within that world as a whole, that can be used to make commentary on the real world via comparisons or contrasts like Terry Pratchett or... you could just have fun. Fantasy worlds shouldn't have to reflect the real world if it doesn't involve the real world at all, you could definitely make a fantasy world where skin color doesn't matter at all if you wanted.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
@@Nicejokeright you, my friend, are a master baiter. You have posted this exact point in at least four other threads that I have explored, and probably way more than that.
@@ComedicLetter you wanna know something else most of the people who replied like you didn't give any decent counterargument to debunk my claim. From what I learned the only thing all of you are good for is being hypocritical.
I think they should just write a good story with well-written characters. There's no need to rely on stereotypes. It's not that hard.
or just make new original characters with relatable back stories and save everyone the hassle of reading all this nonsense because wth
thats my plan for my PoC characters
Infinite Games
You sound like one of those people who are against black representation all together. We care about well written characters that are *black* . That doesn't mean stereotypes, but it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be expressed
@@Scoring57 Sorry if my wording implied that. I'm not great at expressing my thoughts. What I'm saying is that story and character writing should be prioritized. Just because I'm against stereotypes in characters of POC, does not mean their culture can't be expressed. Again, I'm just having gripes on how black and POC are often stereotyped.
I think the reason they went for already existing characters is because those already have a fandom and media presence. You can piggyback on an already built emotional connection people have to that character.
For a new character you gotta work to make it known and people have to bond with the character first.
Of all the things that were changed to be 'black' the most baffling to me is "Odin's fade" replacing "Odin's beard." Does.... does Marvel not realize black men also grow beards???
Exactly, like my old church pastor! He had a beard and he was black.
Do they just not realize that black men know what beards are too?
These people don't know who basketball player James Harden is.
Granted, not everyone into sports knows who he is, but he's pretty damn famous for his beard.
it's even worse/funnier then, that the What If... Odin of this comic _still doesn't have a fade, but has a beard_
Nothing compared to a non textured beard. You can’t even compare the majestic nature of white man beard culture. I’m sorry you just don’t beat nord blood at beards buddy. Jokes aside, They don’t want a black man bearded and that’s just their choice. I don’t do facial hair on textured characters much, let alone beards. Because it’s just not as common. Personal preference can be a factor…..
@@anjamari4670 this is the lamest racebait I’ve ever seen
The fact that Asgard, a magical paradise, becomes a literal fucking ghetto when Miles becomes Thor is so unbelievably tone-def I don’t know how a single person at Marvel didnt shoot this down immediately.
This is especially sad to see this happen to the character of Miles Morales, who in the last few years writers have managed to completely shed the stigma of “black Spider-Man” and really make him in to his own. Most importantly, giving us a POC character that is a realistic representation of the culture he represents without making it feel forced or out of touch.
@@mups4016 99% of the writers Miles has forget he's Puerto Rican and only focus on the black part because that gets them waaaay more brownie points. I think the playstation game is the sole exception because not even the movies allude to it.
No way a competent writer would EVER allow Mile's mom to be okay with him dating a dimensional hopping, jobless, cradle crashing gringa. She'd be giving him the triple chancla style and making the beatings that Peter tends to get look like child's play.
@@ginger-ham4800 "not even the movies allude to it" wdym? Miles speaks Spanish quite a few times throughout the movies. And tbf it's not like they're gonna have him introduce himself as the half Latin spider-man, or did you want his webs to be made out of Adobo?
@@ginger-ham4800 spiderverse mentions it multiple times
Miles in PS4-5 Spider-man and Spiderverse was done extremely well and it feels like whoever made this comic is trynna set us back
@@ginger-ham4800The movies do point out that he's half Puerto Rican. Especially the latest film across the spiderverse where his relationship with his mom is a focal point. They just do it in a natural way like having him speak Spanish.
people understand..that black people arent just "fresh hair styles" "hoods". we arent just pop culture references and rhyming. this shit WHACK.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
Now who said all of that??
I know you haven't talked to every African American, so idk why you're saying that as a blanket statement. I have a problem with stereotypical rep. So of course I'm going to have problems with a VERY stereotypical comic by a white/non black creator??
@@Nicejokeright Are you serious? Have you had a conversation with this person? You "haven't seen them talk about Tyler Perry." Maybe they do. Like, most black people DO NOT like that guy, nor do they like the representation we're constantly getting. It's always whatabouts and wherewereyous that discredit other people's perspective.
@@MENACE-km6bd Is there a reason why black people on television or the Internet keep behaving like ghetto idiots? Explain to me why King Bach and other TH-camrs like him became so popular by using stereotypes that you seem to dislike despite not saying anything against them? The same is true of black Tiktokers, who act ghetto and participate in stereotypes, and then get mad when a non-black Tiktoker does the same. Don't act like how people portray you if you want to be taken seriously.
@@MENACE-km6bd I’ve lived in 3 countries, 4 states (Az,Utah,FL,Texas) visited 3 other states (Louisiana, Montana, Georgia)
Black people are not all the same. Just like any race, it’s culture influences the people.
Due to the culture in America and it’s history, MOST AMERICAN black people raised here do act like a stereotype. Mainly in less affluent neighborhoods
As a black person I find this hilarious. It seems more like a parody, a skit RDCWorld1 would make, rather than something made by Marvel themselves.
By Odin's fade is my favorite line
Honestly yeah its funny as hell which is at least something compared to a lot of trashfires marvel has been putting out.
I honestly thought some of the comic lines were satire lmaoo
By Odin's Fade 🤣🤣
Marvel’s just a parody of Marvel at this point.
Not even 2 minutes in, and even as a white guy I can tell this comic smells of "Hello, fellow Black dudes"
"You know, I'm also somewhat of a black man myself."
“What up, my homies?”
“I’m actually not white I’m Italian”
Im as European as a Swiss cow and even i cringed by those rhymes.
I mean, the writer was a jewish guy from mexico, but yeah.
"I'll show I'm not racist by being racist with the stereotypes I can cram into one comic"
Those are the vibes I am getting.
What is really worse, that or having the best of intentions and still making this? Meaning you don't even realize how racism works or if you are one or not. I'd say the latter is harder to reach.
It just shows how ignorant they are and that if it came down to it, they’d guess their way into representation instead of asking Black people and assimilating into their culture like they would for any other cultural influence but nah, let’s just watch a hood movie and base our data on that. 😂😂😂Goddamn clowns!
Not really racist if it's done from ignorance instead of malice because the whole idea of racism is to knowingly cause harm, ignorance just means you don't know or aren't aware so the intent to harm isn't there and it isn't racist. Distasteful, sure, and this isn't something I'd allow off the drawing board I say Icon is a better example of a black superhero that needs more attention.
In this particular case however, is racist, because it is woke glorifying one race over another and saying it is "fixed."
@@TheUnseenPath Being racist doesn't mean you're necessarily causing harm or have I'll intent, the writer is still being prejudiced and using racial stereotypes to define his characters.
My main OC is black (I am not) and she is apart of a large group of friends who are all different. Someone took my art and thought it was a TV show and made everyone white. They also stereotyped them! Thanks for posting this video! ❤️
Jesus, that’s just terrible. It’s disgusting that someone took your characters and rudely changed their respected skin colors. I’m sorry that happened to you, people are too lazy to make their own characters instead of stealing them from others
I'm gonna guess the person who tried to ruin your characters is a Twitter user
(correct me if im not right)
whuuattt??? that just sounds insane! do you want to talk about it with me on twitter?
Don’t have Twitter for me sadly but I’ve been able to get over it :) Thank you so much for your concerns ❤️❤️
Link? I need to see this.
the graffiti thing is weird because miles is actually does do graffiti, but it’s used really well narratively for his character, instead of just “look he’s black” like in the thor comic
imagine if they did the same to other ethnicities:
"By Odin's sombrero, I will smite you like how a toreador smites bulls"
"His hammer is not halal for you"
"shalom!" (has a hammer with a hat and hair curls)
It’s his “Harammer”
HIS HAMMER IS NOT HALAL FOR YOU💀💀
@@trashyink2132 i was looking for that joke thank you for figuring it out
Lmfaooo
lmafao you made my day
“By Odin’s fade” I don’t know how to feel about that one. I’m both confused, laughing, and worried
lmaooo you finna catch a fade! lmaoo
@@MohammedAgbadi the one fade I’d rather not catch
What does that even mean? Legit curious here.
@@ABlueOrb To explain(from my understanding):
The usage of the term fade, in this context effectively means fighting capabilities. It is often used in phrases such as "catch this fade", meaning to fight.
What this is essentially saying is "To fight with the skill/strength of Odin"
At least that's what I'm assuming, this isn't really a phrase I ever thought about when it comes to meaning.
i really hate it when people argue that changing a characters race, gender or sexuality because they feel the need to fix the lack of representation. I like seeing characters as something different just for the fun of it, but not to "fix" a character who was never intended to be different, otherwise they'd already be that way.
A lot of famous comic book characters weren’t intended to be different because if they were they’d never make it onto the page.
It’s stupid as shit. Just make new original characters jesus 💀
Yeah, my issue with the "there, I 'fixed' it" it is the "fixed." It's just like with people redrawing art "better" to "fix" it. Nah, you didn't "fix" their art. You did your own, unique thing with it. You REPLACED the artist's intent with something different.
Adaptations going different ways on the races of character? It depends on the character, and how core their racial identity was to their 'vibe.' Aragorn's skin color didn't matter a damn bit. The "correct" skintone for the VANAR is what the fuck ever. There isn't a "correct" skin color for mermaids. It's all case by case basis, though.
You wanna do your own thing. Your headcanon is that Rigby is Black? Go ham, but, like WHENEVER headcanon comes up, remember that YOUR headcanon is not the ACTUAL canon, and don't get bent out of shape when the actual thing isn't YOUR thing. About 60% of the 'Ewww, Last Jedi was so awful' whining was just 'But /I/ would have--' Nobody gives a shit. You weren't writing it. If Disney wanted YOUR version, you'd be the one with a writing credit after they read your "far better" version on Ao3. Sorry they sunk your theory, but that's all it ever was.
It's not fixing it's a making it worse there is a plethora of great black characters out there that could use new content.
@@aradraugfea6755 agreed its the "fixing" part i also have a problem because it implies that the characters race, color, gender identity etc is wrong and needed to be corrected. if you said it to an irl person that'd probably be some kind of ism or hate speech, i.e racism or something.
Moral: Write black characters the same way you would write any other character and try to avoid stereotypes.
Also base on the lore and background of the story incorporate that to there character
Or just have black writers write black characters. But I guess that's too hard for marvel
@@coatrak1357 or just have people do their due diligence in research. It ain't that hard if you know what empathy is.
@Scout (Don't Eat the Waffles Webcomic) of course I'm not saying 100 percent of them have to be. But I mean come on there's clearly a definite lack.
@Scout (Don't Eat the Waffles Webcomic) basically it would be so that there first hand knowledge on culture so it wouldn't come across dated or racist like this (and the whole point of this comic was culture)
Also that is how you would avoid stereotypes as well
THERE'S NO WAY THEY LEFT IN "by odins fade!" BRO I'M DYING 💀
RIGHT it’s unbelievable 💀
😂💀
lmaooo
I'm ngl that was the only thing that made me unironically chuckle aside from literally everything about this shit
I feel like someone’s gonna invent a hairstyle called that just to mock the writer
My college thesis was to design characters and animation for a video game that took place in the Shuar culture, an indigenous tribe from Ecuador's jungles. at the start i did it to get the teachers on my side and get my project approved. But once i started to do my research, i found all this crazy stories about their gods and history, and started to want to make them justice and not fall into stereotypes. One of the main points of my thesis was to make the story and characters as seen through the eyes of the culture and to not fall back on damaging preconceptions that people, like myself, had about the Shuar.
I had to do ALL that shit to graduate, these dumbasses didn't even do the base step of consulting someone from the culture...
Meanwhile I had done my share of research when I did an assignment featuring Scythian cultures and anthropomorphic animals. 😅
There's nothing wrong with the concept but like most things its the execution where the problems lie --Like a miles just being able to lift thors hammer would've sufficed ...
They kinda went balls to the walls making the entire concept "black" which I find issue with because Asgard is supposed to be a Utopia yet it still looks like a hood ,which is weirdly implying a black utopia is like a street with a liquor store on the corner. I live that shit everyday I dont think it's a utopia .
the idea is actually good, and could work if a better writer worked on it. but this..just isn't it.
Besides the unnecessary need to change a whole ethnic based culture, they wouldn't do the same with Wakanda
@@YoureRightIThink
Wakanda about to have the Leprechaun Back to tha hood treatment cause of this LMAO
There’s gonna be the super racist pimps, the sex workers, the liquor stores getting held up, the works of every stereotype they can think of.
I swear, if they have another “Odin’s fade” equivalent for Wakanda, the entire world is done for.
@@YoureRightIThink Well thats a *False Equivalence*
Asgard *DOES* operate like Wakanda their both monarchies based around warrior culture and are effectively utopias in their own rights.
The thing is ,Wakanda and the Black Panther are *for* people who have had their cultural backgrounds erased and is impossible for them to get it back-- Changing that would undercut the core philosophy.
You can't say the same thing for Norse Mythology.
@@ji_ji_ Still doesn't seem right but oh well 🤷♀️
One of the things that really bothers me about this is that they say it’s miles morales, but they kept nothing of his original character. I would completely understand the graffiti hammer cause miles is depicted as an artistic person only did graffiti with his uncle once but did his own thing with stickers or on his sketch book. If they either had a scene of him putting the graffiti on because the stickers kept falling or if it was stickers on there not graffiti I’d understand so much more because then that’s just them sticking with miles as a character. But instead it’s just a stereotypical black male while using the miles morales name to make it seem “ok”
Rightttt?!
This was my thought, for Miles, having a decorated hammer absolutely makes sense
But the way they did it was just... bad
Kinda what I was thinking.
They essentially took the skin of Miles and put it over Thor. The way he speaks and acts, his personality basically, wasn't there. So is he even Miles Morales at that point?
There's a difference between Miles Morales having Thors different abilities and responsibilities and "Thor but Miles Morales". It didn't really feel like Miles.
Wasn’t the spider symbol on his chest spray painted?
I don't understand the correlation between him being latino & the graffiti? 😭 Are Latinos not allowed to do graffiti?
The thought of someone being like “oh yeah this is fucking gold” hunched over on there desk while drawing this comic makes me laugh everytime
As a black man when I said I wanted my people to feel included in comic books I didnt want it this way. What I wanted was new characters with interesting stories and personalities being created who would work alongside or against the already created old characters like Cap American. I didnt want just a colour swap and stereotypes mixed inside.
Sadly for Marvel ESPECIALLY for Marvel race swap a character and adding a bunch of superficial african accesories, worst thing is that theyre not even characters theyre just living "racism is bad psas"
Thats because Marvel would rather spin/reskin already popular white characters instead of taking a risk on new black characters or use the ones they already have.
The idiots don't listen
@@thecurmudgeon7350 Remember most of these superheroes are just titles.
@@BWXNB Sad thing is that they really weren't or shouldn't been, i mean I don't want a Black wolverine just so people would compare the too and hate and the black one for being forced and unnecessary for example which is inevitable.
I prefer a new and original black superhero that could stand on his own, hell Marvel already has a ton of badasses like Blade who is like DEFINITION OF COOL, there's also the criminally underused Bishop, Like Cage, etc
There’s nothing wrong with the concept of Miles becoming Thor as it’s happened to plenty of others, but there’s no way this was even close to a sane idea, I mean imagine if Asgard had Live Laugh Love posters everywhere when Jane Foster became Thor.
What if as a concept just means the same rules still apply with a slight change in events, so none of this should have ever happened.
And it's also not just Miles being Thor but literally all Asgard being black, like it's not just an individual character. So yeah they just made an entire Nordic civilization be afro, something I only used as an ironic example before and never thought they would actually do it
I am Scandinavian and I find it offensive. Its our whole culture, lore, mythology and way of living. If it was a random story then fine. But marvel took our mythology and turned it into a comic which is not even accurate for the most part. Its like whitewashing black panther. Its not right
@@YoureRightIThink well yeah that was my main point, how is it even possible for Asgard, a whole other realm as far as Marvel is concerned to be made into a earthly NY suburb just because Miles has the Hammer? It makes no sense whatsoever and seems like a joke of sorts which it was in the end. They should have scrapped this whole thing for a story that would actually make sense in any marvel universe.
@@shynique
Whitewashing black Panther isn’t a very good comparison as being native African is central to his character and he’s nothing but a comic character, this is more like taking a god like Shiva and making the rest of Hinduism into a franchise which would be incredibly offensive, Marvel Comics has used Greek Gods as well as many other pantheons in the same way as Thor, even the Hindu pantheon but not in a main sense, just in brief comic panels to show that all the gods exist in the universe, but if Marvel Studios and Disney made major movies about Shiva and others for American audiences and it was very public, then you’d have a problem on your hands. With that being said I think public grasp of Norse mythology has been utterly damaged by Marvel no matter what way you look at it.
@@shynique how is it no less offensive than making them all Americans and British, isn’t it? I mean MCU Thor is high key Australian.
One of my favorite lines in the new spider verse movies was when his mom said “I heard the new Spider-Man is Puerto Rican.” And miles jumps up and says “nah I’m pretty sure he’s Dominican.” That line got me
The fact that they ignored Miles being Latin is very wow
@@BackUp-nx2de they see skin tone and forget ethnicity, social backgrounds, cultural significance (real ones)
Isn't he mixed?
@@dragonwolfeclipse740 exactly but his father is also black and Latin its a very distinct culture.
@Luis Suazo ????? is this just in your area or something because where i live “half-blood” is something only heard in harry potter, whereas mixed is in great usage by everyone of every background. also what if someone is three or more ethnicities?
@Luis Suazo Troll, mixed isn't racist
This might be an unpopular opinion but I actually really like the black sister from Promised Neverland. Her story (whether on purpose or not) portrays the constant struggle of black women and how they always get passed over no matter how hard they work. She gets portrayed as hyper masculine, overly strong, while the main sister is seen as graceful sweet soft and kind. But in the end she literally helps the kids escape. Idk I really liked her
It was actually a nice dichotomy between the two cuz while Isabella looked soft and sweet she was the truly wicked one of the two. And while I do understand why ppl might side-eye her visuals she was fundamentally a very well written character which isn't something I can say for a lot of modern black characters in US comics and TV shows.
@@fatalblue right!?! Honestly to me in most scenes she didnt look that bad. Now they little black child named Jemima...
@@fatalblue now as someone who loves promise of never land (not the ending) I love sister Krone as a character. She is amazing. However I don’t like the design because she just looked too out of place in that art style . Like if you didn’t know who the character was from you wouldn’t be able to recognize her as a character in n Promise of Neverland because the art style is too different. Critiques of Mr. Popo aside looking at his clothes and character model you know he’s from dragonball. I feel like the artist wanted to show black features but didn’t know how to translate that into their art style (Lavendertowne did a really good video of how she would make sister krone design look like it’s in the same art style as every other character) cause to be fair her character model could possibly work in other more cartoony style like maybe One Piece or something else and wouldn’t probably be offensive( in other angles she looks fine ). It’s just looks worse by comparison to the other characters. Because by that art style standard it looks more exaggerated. TLDR Krone is a good character I just wished the artist knew how to draw black ppl in their own style.
This (suddenly)reminds me of the cybersix comic critique from thoughtslime! The characters are painfully racist stereotypes but they're not treated as one dimensional. I haven't seen this anime, probably won't, but the artist is so wrong for that & shouldn't get a pass tbh. Like artists can't keep getting away with stuff like that
@@spilledteaissadtea3037 idk the way she's drawn fits the anime to me. It doesn't look cartoony to me..she just has bigger lips than everyone else.... Promise Neverland has kinda bad art over and I think sister Krone makes it more obvious. Their mouths are way to high up their faces. Their faces overall are awkwardly placed on the heads. I also love one piece and I think its a disservice to sister Krone to say she'd fit better in One piece. Like the main black person in One piece is Ussop... he literally has sausage lips.
It didn't help that sister Crone was absolutely creepy. But black butler had great representation of Indian culture with Soma and Agni. They actually educate and share their culture with English characters. Even during the curry cook-off Ciel had Soma taste the curry Sebastian made so they'd get it right. Seriously it's great, my friend who's Indian actually said that she loves how the two were written and she even learned some stuff about curry that her family doesn't add to it
I liked how creepy she was. It didn’t have anything to do with her skin color - though her depiction was a bit… jikes.
On the other hand her presense means that the deamons don't discriminate, not having black folks in your human inteligence breeding program would be geninly racist.
Sister Krone resembles strongly a Sambo doll or similarly offensive figure from the mid-1800s and early 1900s. Whether or not it was intentional, Japanese artists seem to have ingrained cultural perceptions of what a stylized black person looks like. Yes, they’ve gotten better, and yes, the US is no different, but I think it’s worth pointing out that a lot of Krone’s creepiness comes from her exaggerated faces, which emphasize her already not great eyes, nose, and lips.
Black Butler did a good job on representation, but it doesn’t excuse how creepy it is. From the way the author drew Sebastian and Ciel in some scenes, or how it was originally gonna be a yaoi 😬
@@lovelycloudyskies this was supposed to be a Yaoi? 😳 and I was wondering why there was constantly this weird friction between the two😂 it was like queer baiting 😂
Static Shock will always be my go to as a good representation of a POC hero dealing with relevant issues. Which is why I both want and fear a Static Shock reboot/continuation. The issues Virgil dealt with back then are issues we are still fighting to change today. Imagine if they took OG Virgil, aged him up to his mid 20s, and had him deal with current issues?
And he was the only electricity superhero to figure out electromagnetism, so he could magnetize stuff as well as control electricity!
This comment reminded me of how Comic Drake mentioned a comeback of Static Shock a while ago and I had to google it.
There is a continuation/reboot. Made by the original creators, with concepts/ideas/influences from the original comic line aswell as the animated series.
"Milestone Returns" is the first part of this new comic line-up, released on September 13, 2020.
The stories take place on Earth M (non-canon to the DC Universe).
But I can't say weither it's good or not.
I’d hope the “current issues” could be more of a hidden meaning, because I’m tired media especially movies and shows telling us about the same current issues.
Kinda like the movie “Bright”. Yea it was a bad movie but it was cool how they spoke about race and police through fantasy
I don't think static shock will have a reboot or a continuation or a solo show
I remember someone saying DC doesn't own full copyright of him since his character was made by another company,the closest thing we'll get is him as a side character
Dwayne McDuffie was the GOAT
"By Oden's fade" that legit sounds like a freaking line for a parody. A freaking joke that Calebcity would write for laughs
It really does!
This idea was pitched, written, edited, approved, and published. The fact that nobody hit the breaks throughout that entire process is baffling
They could've either done something diving into actual African mythology, or something where Miles found the hammer and became The Mighty Thor instead of Spiderman. Instead they went with the worst option in between the two.
Or Miles could have been Black Panther....
Yea he could’ve found Shengo’s axe or sum (shengo is the Yoruba god of thunder)
Black culture =/= African culture
You gotta understand
Black people in the USA don't have any actual roots, so they don't know what black culture is
@@shumishu6019 yeah bro that would’ve been hype.
Actually exploring African mythology would be really freaking interesting, funny how all the "woke" stuff claims to empower people while entirely ignoring or insulting their culture.
I want to see non-european cultures get expressed more, instead of European culture just shoe-horning other peoples into it to "empower" them, the ignorance and irony of so much stuff lately is painful...
i want to say the how to train your dragon series has good disability representation. because the main character develops a physical disability but then it just shows him coping with it and adjusting to life with it with some accommodations.
but it doesnt make him out to be like a hero with superpowers for ‘overcoming’ a disability or some crap like they always do for disabled characters that is really annoying and not good representation.
But aren't disabilities annoying to get accustomed to?
Like you wanted him to lose his leg then nothing just credits?
I think overcoming the limitations of a disability Is good representation. Like autistic children, learning a unique skills is overcoming their disability.
@@robertgarcia5102 Hiccup does learn to overcome it and grow accustomed to it however it's not his defining character trait, it's simply a part of who he is. It's not something to be praised or treated like he's lesser or better. He's treated the same even with the adversity of his missing leg.
It's still a visible struggle we see, but it's not all he is effectively. That's what a lot of representation misses out on nowadays, effectively they try and represent a group by being overtly representative without actually considering that there is room for a diverse yet deep and interesting character.
@@robertgarcia5102 i don't understand your comment? i said that he copes with it and adjusts to life with it with some accommodations. which is more realistic way to deal with having a disability than some other media portrayals
@emmanuel omego Good disability representation would be a realistic and good, not empty and pandering.
@@QUEERVEEART it is the "but" in your first comment and the idea about disability representation. First the disability rep is a weird idea. @Emmanuelomego is understanding that. Just let the character be the character, not a caricature of the disability. Like a pirate is a pirate; the limbs missing from the pirate doesn't make him a "limb-less pirate"... understand.
So your "but" made it seem like overcoming a difficulty is "not enough" for a character. There needed to be "more" representation. Which made no sense to me.
Editors: "what do you mean it's not representative? I have a black friend who said that this comic was a good idea." This is where Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker totally agree representation must be natural and organic not some checklist.
I bet all the black friend was told was just the premise and nothing else.
Of course it sounds good on paper, until it's executed and we get this bullshite
Prince of Egypt was the first time I remember seeing a piece of media that had more than one PoC (especially with diversity in hair and nose types) and I still adore the art style to this day
@Xx-raZ0r_pup-xX not even the veggietales movies !?
@@latteistrash the veggie tales count as well. But for bible movies that are trying to be accurate ( without obscuring things a little for kids) all others ones are garbage and dream works did then only best ones
Veggietale movies rule though.
Ok, but those aren't really black people...
@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon they're literally african, bruh
@@satirics7701 And? Africa is a continent, that's like saying brazilians and canadians should have the same color, because they are from America...
I feel like it would have been easier to just pick someone from African mythology and give them their own proper storyline
But that means doing actual work and research! /j
and there's quite a number of them if they're willing to go that route
@@aandersson9181 oh yes, the modern comic book writers worst nightmare
I ain't even black and i would love it
Like anase
Have to say one of my favorite portrayals of black character in a recent anime that I've seen is Baki. It came out of nowhere for me. When that big old brother showed up I expected them to make him a walking stereotype like so many black characters in anime. But they were respectful, incredibly respectful. In fact the second season had Muhammad Ali's son as a main character and they were just as respectful to his character and the character representing Muhammad ali.
I genuinely do not understand why it's so hard for these people to actually hire a black author and artist when they want to portray black culture. Or at least take their time talking to black people to make sure these kinds of things don't happen. Seriously wtf.
I mean, I dunno. I would think hiring people with talent who cares is more important and beneficial than just hiring them cause they are black. Especially since black people can also make poor products with black people and stereotype themselves
@@SpectreBagels There is no dichotomy between being black and being a good author. There are plenty of great black authors. And the original comment said that the authors should at least do their research, even if they aren't black. I have no problems with a non-black person writing a black character, as long as they do a good job, this comic wasn't a good job, lol.
@@youareloved1455 Ok, I never said that there weren't good black creator. I specifically said that they shouldn't be hired just cause they are black, which is clearly the part of the comment I took issue with. That the basis shouldn't be, "you're black so you'll write good black characters", since black people can be poor writers and portray the exact stereotypes people have issue with. So them saying that they should at least do research if they aren't doesn't matter to what I was moreso talking about, and I already covered that part in the 1st sentence of my comment. Being a person with talent who cares would be a person who did research or asked for references. Also wasn't defending this comic, of course it was poor
@@SpectreBagels Sorry for misinterpreting your comment, seems like we agree for the most part.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
'I don't know who they made this for, but it's definitely not for us' this quote sums up the core of bad representation perfectly.
I believe that a writer of any race can write a character of any race, provided the proper research is made, because ultimately we all share the human condition.
But yes, I can definitely see this comic as an argument for everybody "staying in their lane". It reads like a psyop by the bad guy from Black Dynamite or Undercover Brother.
As a writer and an artist this hurts on more than one level (especially the awful dialogue 😭)
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
@@Nicejokeright wow. You're commenting this everywhere. Just say you like the stereotypes because it makes you feel better than others and move along.
@@MENACE-km6bd Assuming looks ugly on you because it gets you nowhere without any evidence to support it, otherwise. You might as well say you don't have a valid counterargument and move along
@@Nicejokeright Ok so the stereotypes in Tyler Perry movies are pretty bad, reason people don't see a problem usually is cause he's black and they're used for comedic reasons and most people don't take it seriously.
And when someone white does it it's seen as them trying to belittle black people and say they are stupid, violent, ignorant, ect.
Reason for this thought process in my opinion is because of minstrel shows where people would do blackface and make fun of black people.
It's kind of a double standard but there's a million of those already.
@@reydelsol2753 Exactly you hit the nail on it's head. It's kinda like the n word in a way, when black people encourages white people to say the n word but then gets mad or shocked when they actually say it. It doesn't make sense to me, if black people don't like it when others say it then why say it at all?
The problem isn't that they were white people who wrote this. The problem is that they were bad writers coming from a not very insightful place. White people have written great black characters before, like black people have written great white characters. People shouldn't be afraid to explore a character who doesn't look like them, or doesn't come from the same back ground as them as long as they do it with respect. Using stereotypes as your leading example is a poor decision to say the least, but it's not just white people susceptible of making that mistake. Everyone is.
Honestly like some ppl can't understand that any non-caucasian can still have the same personality and character background as a Caucasian character. Like both go through birthdays and both have normal-people names and normal-people traits. Just cause their skin is different doesn't mean their entire life story is gonna revolve around their skin, or more specifically, their skin's stereotypes.
Sophia Insanity
With more calls for black people to represent themselves in media, I don't think you're doing black people a service by advocating for the opposite. No one is saying it's impossible for people to write other races, but it certainly reduces the chances of it ending in a disaster when you allow black people to represent themselves given that there's larger negative association with black people than other groups.
@@Chirp-chirp
So all characters should just have a default 'caucasian' background and stereotype?
@@Scoring57 I'm not advocating for the opposite. I'm saying that people shouldn't be afraid to write people that aren't them. It also heavily depends on the nature of the story you want to tell. If you want to do a social commentary it's essential to do your research to correctly convey the livelyhood of the people you're writing of for example, and of course a person who's actually lived through it would do a better job at telling it. But other than that, you'll just have to write a good character that will serve the story you want to tell. If your setting is in space fighting alien beasts, you put your mindset on what it's like for your character to be in space fighting alien beasts. We as humans all have different experiences, some due to the color of our skin, but I don't need to be black to know what a black character would feel like to lose someone they love, or blast down an alien ship, or engage in a sword fight, or navigate a scary cave for example. Ironically enough we're segregating each other more and more by being made to believe you can only put yourself in the shoes of someone who looks like you.
I agree that anyone of any race can write anyone else (as an aspiring writer I can and will do so), but I do believe them being bad writers is compounded with them being white in this type of situation. The reason that it matters that people of a race/culture to be the ones writing that story is so they can do it with respect and nuance (usually). There are too many examples of white people writing POC horribly because they hyper-fixate on the race of the character and proceed to write the character based on their pre-conceptions of POC rather than as a person (which is racist). I've seen similar writing like this for men writing women. Yes, everyone can make mistakes like this, I agree with that too. It's the reasoning behind these mistakes that also matters though.
Honestly it should've just been marketed as a parody comic. Cause "by odins fade" is hilarious 🤣
This is why I tend to avoid inserting real world cultures altogether. I doubt I could accurately depict my own culture without making it a bad stereotype, let alone do a good job with another.
A fair idea, though even then we can get bothered by people nitpicking coincidental similarities, or in other words, some people will look for any excuse to complain even if it's not fair or reasonable to do so.
That said, yeah, this comic deffinitly deserves a bit of a slap for the bad handling of things here, if they want a "POC Thor" they should delve into African Mythology instead as it would have a chance to not only make more sense but also be far more empowering
we all have stereotypes and they exist for a reason. there may be outliers or its something you never sat down and thought about but if you did, probably would realize beneath every stereotype is kernel of truth.
It’s pretty bad especially when it’s at that time’s _current_ slang. By the time, it’s already dated.
The show _Totally Spies_ knew this from a fashion perspective and actually made a fusion of styles so that it’s it’s own universe’s fashion.
This can happen but it needs special care, effort and personal investment for making a rich history and culture that honors the derivative culture it’s borrowing from.
But that would take too much work for these guys and they’d rather just go on autopilot copying and making additions to lore they’re already used to.
Can’t leave it to them.
How can you not depict your own culture without turning it in a bad stereotype?
Are you a filty human? Gross
I challenge Marvel to employ good writers. They always have a lack in that department, but this is a new genre
Might be time for them to just drop all the people who said this was a good idea
The illustrators are carrying the Marvel comics at this point
A bunch of good writers got laid off in 2018/2019, I read the article on uproxx back then.
It is always the writers getting blamed. But somebody told the writers to write this. Dozens of people looked at what the writers wrote and thought it was okay (or they all thought it was wrong, but nobody wanted the first to speak up.) This is the exact type of content Marvel wants.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Yup, this is the fault of editors whom allowed this to pass to print need to be fired
any black character atsuhi ohkubo writes is top tier, he just treats the characters as he treats any other character regardless of race or ethnicity or gender, yes even gender fan service goes both ways in his stories and Ogun liking Reggie instead of rap honestly surprised me
Mangaka generally do more research than USA comic artists
well the jordans and graffiti makes sense since he wears jordans in alot of media and graffiti is a big part of his character, but him mentioning fades every 2 seconds and hanging sneakers like theyre towels is just.. wild
lool his dressin is not even that bad tbh.. but the dialogue!!!!!! nah imagine miles in spiderverse sounding like this.
@@MohammedAgbadi "My fade sense are tingling"
@@cassiscrowmatic NOO 😭 💀
@@cassiscrowmatic OMG💀💀💀
Right? Miles himself didn't even talk like that.
Also, worth noting that 100% of the problems would be solved if they simply had given this project to a team of black creators.
And some Scandavian creators.
@@youareloved1455 Just for the sake of the larger conversation, let's not forget that there's a difference between mythology and people's lived experience. One aspect of that is that being Scandinavian is much less of a guarantee for getting Norse mythology right than being African American is for getting that lived experience right. The level of harm of getting either of these wrong also isn't at all the same between the two.
@@youareloved1455 even black Scandinavians. A team of black Americans and black Scandinavians for writing this would have been cool.
@@christianknuchel this is especially true for the younger Scandinavians who probably grew up with the Marvel movies. I (almost four decades old) grew up with the stories about the actual mythology from kindergarten, especially since my teacher in 4th-6th grade was cool enough to go a bit more in depth about them. I probably wouldn't be able to do the mythology justice without doing a refresher course, but I still have a good base sense of it.
That said, there are a lot of racists who just claim "Norse" heritage as an excuse to be racist and get outraged at an already severely warped comic book version getting the added detail of not being "white", without actually having a decent understanding of our history and actual mythologies. Additionally, the raiders (i.e. vikings) frequently even kidnapped people to up here from all sorts of places to be serfs or their wives, everything from England, to Russia, and further down, and those serfs married and had families and descendants. Sweden's Queen is even decended from a French dude who got invited to be our king. Neither the vikings nor Scandinavians are as genetically "pure" as a lot of racists image.
Or just someone of any race who could write . . .
Crazy idea: write characters first, pick their race afterwards. It's difficult to understand, I know, but people's race isn't actually a central component to how they are as a person (it is quite shocking I know)
this sound AWESOME, friend. As a Vietnamese person, I always feel like the only thing people know about my country is soft and feminine Vietnamese women in Ao Dai, meanwhile my female classmates (I'm a student) not all of them are like that. There are tomboys, cute girls, attractive girls, and also mediocre ones. They all have different values, which IS NOT COME FROM OUR ASIAN RACE. (of course it does affect us, but not 100%).
Sorry this is a very immature take. You're American or kids, clearly.
Who we are is a result for our experiences, values, and culture. Our race, nationality, and socioeconomic status defines that.
"Write characters, race later" is something people who have no understanding of culture say.
@@itsgonnabeanaurfrommeow, not only condescending, but racist. Two strikes. While I agree that heritage and culture - which are undoubtedly tied to race in *some* regards - *can* define a character, it doesn’t *have to* (e.g., almost every Caucasian-American character). Also, just so we’re clear, CHARACTER COMES BEFORE RACE *ALWAYS.*
@@itsgonnabeanaurfrommeor you know, just write a character as a character?
@@someonetooksorrow Condescending? Sure. Racist? Hell no. He is absolutely right. Our experiences determine what kind of person we grow up to be, and that does include our race, culture, country, but also things like family, financial situation, environment, etc... Op worded it a bit bad but he definitely wasn't trying to say that race is the only thing that determines it. he was saying that it does largely contribute to it, although for some people less and for some people more it really does depend. Also if you are a writer you can't just say "Character comes before race", while you shouldn't write a character this or that way JUST because of their race, you can't write their race before or after you write the character themselves, you have to write them at the same time when you write the character if you get what I mean. It is stupid to say "Yeah I want a mexican here" and then write a stereotypical mexican just for the sake of having a mexican, but it is also stupid to write an entire character adn then at the end say "Oh yeah and he is also mexican". Neither of those approaches work out.
It’s strange how miles has gone from a normal kid with a bright future to someone who dresses and acts like a stereotype
Really? Giving Cell the Senzu bean before sending his nerdy son to fight him wasn't a jerkass move?
@@aradraugfea6755 ¿
@@aradraugfea6755 man what the fuck does goku being a dingus have to do with this lol
@@aradraugfea6755think you're lost bro
I dont think this is real a "what if miles was thor" comic because nothing about it ties to miles it's a "what if thor was black but we dont want to have a title that blatant so we'll tie it to a dark skinned character whose popular"
This would make more sense if it was "what if Luke cage was thor" but even then its way off since cage grew up in the 80s/70s
One thing extra painful about this is the fact that Miles Morales is such good representation in his original form. So not only are they disrespecting african american culture they are disrespecting their own character.
Disney channel has been doing surprisingly well as far as representation in some of their cartoons in the last few years. Luz from owl house is Afro-Latina (and gay), Anne from amphibia is Thai-American, and the ghost and molly McGee just recently had a whole episode about Molly’s fear of being out of touch with her “Thai-ness”
Carole and Tuesday had good representation (and interpretation of the at the time, political conflict). Especially during the second season.
i'll check it out. sounds interesting
@@MohammedAgbadi
You really need to its amazing. And has a pretty good OST.
Except for the mermaid sisters, some people didn't like that bit very much💀
@@NeroMai LMAO
@@MohammedAgbadi try checking out hatchin to michiko too i would really like your opinion on it
“Word, let’s bounce!”
Ah yes. A classic amongst black people in. Highly accurate ya dig!
Nobody ever talked like that
That sounds like something Jake from Advance Wars would say XD
Here's something they could've done
Have him go through his same Spider-Man Storyline, but as Thor
Being Clumsy, Needing to get used to everything, having him take down Loki for the first time
Basically, that lovable, endearing side of Miles that people enjoy and can relate to of living up to expectations (Yes, this is kinda leaning towards Spider-Verse Miles, however Spider-Verse is amazing so I don't regret it)
This whole situation highlights another problem I feel writers have: Having to represent the cultures and ethnicities the character are from. A lot of people think that if you make a character that's a less represented ethnicity or culture, that the story HAS to be about it. The truth is... it really doesn't. You can have characters of different color and culture and just have them be a character in the story. Sometimes this can even be a better option as it shows these people as just that: people. Of course do a bit of research so you know what NOT to do, but you don't have to make your black charatcer about being black and do... whatever the hell this comic is.
As someone with Austim, i'd love to see more autistic characters in media. I'd love to see people's takes on them and how they put them in a story. I just ask that they don't be tone deaf about it and give us another emotionless robot (both figuratively and literally.) Make a charatcer, not a stereotype. It takes like 10 minutes of research it's not that hard.
Exactly thats why i find things like Jax ending in MK11 extremely tone deaf because it shows that to them Jax is just the black guy and nothing else.
Its something that the boys criticized really well with A train on season 3
Wow, this is such a good point. What you say is true. A foreigner that live for a long time in a country actually has better understanding of the culture and language than someone who is native but come back after few years gone to different country. This is actually real life scenario because some foreigners who grow up in here speak better Balinese than the native (and me lol)
I don't see a problem with a character embracing their culture. Many people wear it proudly on their sleeves, sometimes due to historical oppression (Puerto Ricans used to be jailed for being patriotic).
The real problem is writing a culture you don't know, when your story is about said culture but you already knew that.
This! Thank you! Finally someone said it👌🏿
It’s literally 2022. Why are people still using stereotypes? We can’t get actual nice stories and stuff anymore cause people think that stereotypes can help their story 🤦🏾♀️
You need to call out these folks who think making a character black or & fat because the original character is too pretty or as they say unrealistic pretty is super insulting regardless of their intent.
My only issue here is including Mr.Popo as a black steryotype
Him and Jynx (the pokemon) get that alot, but they are based off of a japanese folklore thing.
But Toriyamas early tries at making actual black people looked racist as a mf 🤣🤣
I've researched what Jynx is based off. The origins of that folklore are pretty disturbing, and arguably racist themselves...
Mr popo is also from a series that is almost 40 yrs old, most of us didnt even exist. I doubt toriyama had ever heard the word "blackface" back then. In comparison the promised neverland has no excuse.
@@verybarebones I was about to mention TPN 💀 no excuses I know damn well they’ve seen a black person before
Popo is a terrifying entity. Staff Officer Black, on the other hand...
@@verybarebones have you ever seen a black person irl? Have you talked to them?
At this point Marvel just needs to take a year long break
nah for real.. because what is this bruh
@@MohammedAgbadi honestly 😭
I been saying Marvel needs to do a total reboot because it's messy right now. There's no consistant point of entry for newer people at all. If they don't realize the reason why Manga busts their ass is consistany and ease of entry. Give that to people they WANT that. Don't follow MCU's dogshit canon. Pull it back make it known that Thanos and the Secret Wars happened. Just pick up where it isn't as complex.
Not gonna lie, if I had to read the first draft of this comic, I would not be able to stop myself from laughing because it honestly looks like a joke. Odin’s fade got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
10:53, after playing the Witcher games and reading their books I saw how many interesting Polish myths and monsters there were. Then imagining a whole _continent's_ worth of those from Africa just makes me wish I saw more of those stores (not including Egypt which I've already been bombarded with stories of lol).
Agreed, heck, we only ever see maybe 2% of the interesting cultures and mythologies of the world stuck on repeat, there's so much out there to explore and all we see is a few European and a couple non-european mythologies stuck on repeat.
It gets kinda depressing...
Is mostly how more developed cultures have more developed myths that are more attractive for the media and the public.
They're one step away from putting KFCs into asgard. This is the level of stereotyping in this comic book. It's so ridiculous.
And their farms only producing water melons, and the utopia city store (which is based off a fuck hood- as if poverty is utopia) only having a section dedicated to kool aid.
It's awful, as if POC are completely different entities from Caucasians and other races ... Can't see them as Individual . Stereotypes are ridiculous
Representation is really important to us as an organisation/company, and I'm glad we at least have examples like this to learn from. I really do wish more companies could be better about this sort of thing, and hope that they're seeing these mistakes and trying their best to avoid making them again. Thanks for the insight by you and other TH-camrs on topics like this one!
- The asyncollective founder
I said "by odins fade" to my uncle he looked at me and said "stop talking like a white Boi"
LMAOOOOOO
This sucks cause I love Miles Morales and even if he’s a “black spin off” of spider man, as a character he’s relatable as hell and from a story telling perspective the writers leaned into that by making him interact with different versions of Spider-Man in the comics and in Spiderverse so that he didn’t feel forced but like a natural addition to the MCU!
It’s so stupid too do the story this way because if they wanted to do “what if Miles Morales is Thor?” there’s many many ways to go about it without making every character a “hood stereotype” or having this cringy dialogue!
First of all, I’m guessing these writers don’t understand Norse mythology at all, which is why they would decide to swap Miles and Thor in the first place, despite them having very different backgrounds. Norse mythology is inherently European, meaning there wouldn’t be anything related to AMERICAN life in it! But, it’s also ANCIENT which means NOTHING SHOULD BE MODERN! Rap, hood references or fades inherently don’t fit in this setting and adding them HERE makes it feel forced and further stereotypes the black characters that are already being scrutinized for replacing white characters.
If they wanted Miles to be Thor from the start, which is honestly the most BORING way to do things (because Thor’s hero origin story isn’t even about where he comes from, it’s about him learning to be the hero he was meant to be through struggles and losses) then he needs to fit into ancient and non-American hairstyles, speech and mannerisms.
But because this is a what if comic why not make it interesting?
Have it where Thor dies and Miles inherits Mjolnir instead of Peter Parker dying and Miles becoming spider man?! Make Miles go through the same goofy scenarios where he’s crashing through walls as he gets dragged by the hammer similar to when his spider powers were activated the first time! Have him meet the avengers and mourn the loss of a great hero, while also being told he’s just a kid and he’s not ready for it! Even have Cap try to take the hammer away from him, only for that act in itself to no longer make Cap worthy and only Miles! Hell, have Loki hate Miles for taking his brother’s hammer (which Loki may want to possess himself) where he laughs at how pathetically ill-equipped Miles is to fight him and then kicks the crap out of him only for Miles to have a big power up moment and yell “I am worthy” before kicking Loki’s ass!!!
I heard that they took Miles Morales' plot line and gave it to Tom Holland Spider-Man so they had to rewrite the Miles story in Into the Spider verse
@@spectre9340 I think that was what happened and that made Miles more unique. I hoestly thought the first decade of Miles's stories were kind of mediocre to decent with not much that was outstanding. Largely because he wasn't really too different from Peter when he was younger. Smart, moody, angsty but black/latino. The only new that he offered is that he had different familial ties as opposed to frail aunt May. Spider-verse attempted to give him some more unique characteristics like making him a lover of music and art. I hope they incorporate more of that backwards into the comics.
You’d think this What If book would be like “what if Miles inherited these other heroes’ mantles instead of Spider-Man’s” but no, the book so far is just “what if these heroes were literally the exact same but they happened to have the name Miles Morales”.
Huh...that was actually pretty creative for a random TH-cam comment
He's a legacy character.
I mean, that's pretty much the standard. Companies being "diverse" only through the colors of their fictional characters while their board and writing rooms all remain the same. The result is really no surprise... The general lack of differing ideologies and backgrounds also never helps
I burst out laughing when I saw the frost giant with a fade, and imagining the lengths this ice giant has to go through just get a haircut. It must've taken months just to finish one side of head.
Oh, is that what he said. I heard 'face' and was very confused why frost giants wouldn't have a face.
I love how most big companies just race swap a character and call it a day. Instead of just, y'know, coming up with an original character. But no, that would take effort and creativity, let's just upset anyone who doesn't want classic characters to be messed with while also upsetting anyone who wanted characters that were of a similar skin color to them by making it purely stereotypes.
Big corporations are full of clowns
@@CajunReaper95 Sure, but a problem I see with multiverse as a "fix" is that no matter what, the one from the "other" universe will always be compared to the original one. In your example it would be comparing Miles to Peter, and I personally ended up liking Miles as a character more than Peter, though that might be a personal gripe of mine with how Peter is handled as a character (I mean the constant resetting him back to being poor and alone, or being with MJ even if he was with someone he meshed with better.)
Besides that, there also seems to be a trend of doing it in one direction only, we don't really get those "what ifs" with T'Challa, or someone like Scarlet Witch as a guy, if you know what I mean. Once an accident, twice a coincidence, three times a pattern.
@@CajunReaper95 Honestly the multiverse concept is just a cop out to avoid criticism about race swapping.
I'M WRITHING ABOUT IT.
Originality is dead man.
@@CMan-x7k That's definitely how it looks like when it only goes one way.
Ah the classic "make your own character" "argument"
Also i feel like a lot of westerners watching anime overlook the fact it comes from east asia thus most of the characters are inherently east asian, especially if the story is based in japan. for example the popular demon slayer is not only set in 20s japan but also rooted deeply in japanese culture. it explores themes of family relations, especially siblings relationship that ive seen often appears weird to the american audience. we cry for representation yet tend to ignore it i guess
As a Miles Morales fan, I’m so sorry that my fellow Mexican Yhundi Mercado wrote this. It’s just so ridiculous.. 🤦🏽
Fun fact to make this better/worse, Miles' creator is italian. So yeah, writers aren't excused from making poor representation because of cultural stereotypes/not being part of a community: and I would love for all creators to homage one another, but that seems to fade all the way into obscurity.
But let him make a Italian mob comic and he’s going full Scorsese 😂
@@Theohybrid Asgard becomes a gigantic pizzeria.
Sara Pichelli was only the creator of Miles in terms of design and looks, besides She was not drawing this book
Miles creator isn't italian, the artist of original miles comic is italian
As a brazilian i know how it is to have almost no representation, and when you finally are represented in media is something like Blanka from Street Fighter
That's why Eddy Gordo from Tekken was such a breath of fresh air.
Your line at the end about adding subtle nods to another culture within a culture is not only correct but actually historical. I recall watching a vid by a black YT'er who explores Victorian era history/fashion from a black prospective who explained how even though black women wore same/simlar style dresses to their white counterparts they would add subtle modifications that nodded to their cuture like adding colorful/pattern borders on their skirt and sleeves. It would've been cool to see a Asgard with light shades of that urban style rathen then the hamfist reverse we got. They also could have gotten away with some rap style dialog too since Viking culture does have a history of sung epics. The more I think about it the more I feel in better hands you could craft a compelling setting that blended Asgard with Miles' NYC.
fatalblue
They might not have done the best job, but you don't have to preserve asgard or white culture to tell a good story.
An anime that I enjoy that talks a lot about issues immigrants face all while focusing on these two girls' music is Carole and Tuesday. I strongly recommend this anime as I think it helped me understand issues immigrants face and how it talked about corrupt politicians and the anime overall had great representation with disabled characters, POC, queer characters, immigrants, etc.
Oh yeah true plus the musics there are bangers
I kind of disagree. It's pretty and well executed. But that's all. I feel its just fantastically dressed up but still shallow as a commentary on immigration. I think it works really well as a simple plot of trying to succeed in the music scene. But the subtext of immigration was only lightly explored. To me, it's artificially integrated into the plot to justify a concert as a satisfying finale
castlevania had a great character in isaac. he was a complex and interesting character, full deck of cards in emotion, reasoning, loyalty and internal conflict. after season 2 i only clocked back in to check on how his arc and dispute with hector would develop and end.
Luther tv series. I hate that there are some articles that try to “fix” Luther by stereotyping or saying that Luther isn’t black enough but a normal person. Like isn’t this the point? That black people are normal people or I’m missing something
It's literally not that hard to treat your bipoc characters like actual humans and not just stereotypes lmao
Bipoc?
Pretty sure that miles is straight coded so what are you on about?
@@youtubestudiosucks978 I'm not sure what you're asking? Bipoc stands for black, indigenous, and people of color, it has nothing to do with sexuality
@@stygian4330 stop making up new words each fucking day
@@stygian4330Probably thought it meant Bisexual Person of Colour.
@@DeBean970yea it can be misread that way 😅
10:16 I might be misunderstanding that tweet, but I terribly disagree with that first part. It would be very boring, unrealistic, and even a little insensitive if every single European writer never made a story with a single Black character. I think we can agree that most people could write a black character better than whatever *this* is.
Really good vid. My very first thought when hearing this concept "What if Miles was given the power of Thor" was not completely rewriting the Thor mythos and crowbarring "blackness" into their back story -- but instead changing the part of Miles' story from where he got bit by a spider to where he found/gifted/earned the power of Thor. Miles isn't Miles without being a smart Black and Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn and everything that comes along with those circumstances and experiences. I feel like that's the first and major misstep (beyond the poor writing) in this entire concept and why it feels so completely off-base and inauthentic. Not to say that this couldn't have been simply just written better by someone else, it's just a strange and risky (as we can see) to strip out huge areas of context and storytelling and try to make new ones yourself without knowing really why it was great in the first place. In the same way that other humans & aliens became worthy and got to wield the hammer, do the same for Miles and see how things unfold differently with the powers of the thunder god. What an odd choice for a what if story.
This is why it’s important we tell our stories, because this ain’t for us, it’s clowning us.
This feels like a parody of being woke that is so woke, it woke up racism
Also Loki got the drip with that pose at the beginning I can't deny.
Speaking specifically of how Orishas could be excellent material for fantasy and comic books, I highly recommend the work of a brazilian artist called Hugo Canuto. The guy has a whole project going on with that exact premisse and it's awesome
The only thing I think should stop happening when it comes to black characters, is the white lips or very light lips. Have you ever seen a black person with white lips? I haven’t so why do they keep doing that!!!
Yeah, when they're ashy
@@SpookyTGhost that's not a thing really
Some good one for representation was that I have seen that you didn’t mention were Blackish, and 911
I’d also love to hear ur opinion on the main character from Forespoken as I felt like her character was super stereotypes driven like the what if miles but wasn’t completely sure
Also thank you for talking about this as it really motivates me as a screenwriter to write good characters and not doing anything like what you have described as that enrages me so frickin much
I've heard a few stories from Africa and they are amazing. I would love to see a hero character based on one of these stories
this is what i been saying about disney movies too for years
It's actually really sad that a lot of african stories did not survive to present day.
1) Majority of folk stories and myth were passed on orally
2) Good-ol-fashion colonialism
3) Colonialism could have theoretically improve the preservation of these stories with the introduction of western concepts like literacy and archiving practices....... If they actually cared about the people and their stories
Wasn’t there that Cartoon of John Henry? Why not have comics based on him?
@@yiklongtay6029 the adventures of anatsi the spider as a show would be amazing
We gotta realize that there was a process to this. A writer had to come up with the idea, storyboard it, then an artist had to draw sketches, and somebody else had to ink it, then yet another person had to color it, another person added effects (so in total like at least 4 people just in that art pipeline, along with a bunch of assistants). Then the dialogue had to be added. And in no part of this HUGE pipeline was a black person involved (because if there was, there would be no way this bs would be finalized), and nobody involved thought this was a wee bit cringe and maybe slightly racist (from their perspective, because any normal person can see that this is VERY cringe and VERY racist).
PS: just realized I missed the part where they had to go to a publisher and get the comic book out there (needles to say, a lot of people involved in that too)
They probably was like oooh the n*ggas gone love this one 😭😭😭😭😂😂😂
Also some one allowed this to be like this, someone checked it if it’s ok to be a comic and never thought that this might be a little racist or cringe
I feel like switching up superheroes or characters to give them new ethnicities or genders can work. It can be fun, it can help you take the story in a new direction you couldn't have done with the original hero. And heck that is even how Miles started. I just think thought needs to be put into it "how does being from that background give this new character different perspectives and experiences", it's all something that needs to be thought through.
The old Justice League animated TV show actually did pretty well, I think ( their Green Lantern, John Stewart, was black, where up until the show came out the character in comics had been white).
There's actually a thread went around - on twitter, I think? - showing the influence of a writer desperately working against a clueless producer to make the character less racist, as well as fighting to give the character a darker skin tone, and SUCCEEDING in both, and then being frustrated and asking why, when they made a Green Lantern movie, they chose the relatively unknown Hal Jordan, a white Green Lantern from the comics rather than the recognized and well liked John Stewart Green Lantern from the animated TV show that damn near every kid from the early 2000s knew and loved. DC could have had the first major black superhero movie but they decided a white guy was safer and then proceeded to make what is considered one of the worst superhero movies of the modern era...
Edit: after serious google shenanigans I found a transcript of the interview from that writer. It's posted as an image on reddit for some reason, I'm sure there's a better link somewhere but all the DC Green Lantern stuff really messes with search results when you're trying to find a specific quote or interview and don't know the exact source www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/ufqpta/other_an_amazing_interview_with_neal_adams_on_the/
Malediction Wolf
John Stewart is the perfect example of a black character that doesn't shy away from being black but is done right. But predictably a lot people seem to want to use this as a reason to demonize showing the race of a black character in any meaningful way. A lot of people like to deny this when it's convenient, but John Stewart *sounded* like a black person (cause you can sound like that) and he talked like how many black people would talk. Same with cyborg from teen titans. They all had their race represented and acknowledged, instead of being a blank slate that's assimilated into white culture like some people seem to want. Obviously there's a good way and bad way to do it. Just cause it's done the bad way doesn't mean you get to attack the representation of black cultures.
Hal Jordan is the original Green Lantern, John Stewart replaced him at some point in the comics, they later came to operate as Green Lanterns simultaneously.
It's also worth noting that Captain Marvel is kind of a shameless ripoff of Hal, having several bits of overlap in their backstories.
Yeah I also remember that green lantern. I wasn’t much of a DC watched when I was little because I was REALLY young, but my brothers watched a lot of DC so whenever they put stuff on I watched with them too. That’s why I was confused when I saw a white green lantern later lol.
Hal Jordan is literally the most well known Green Lantern.
Hal Jordan is NOT unknown. Dude is one of the founders of JL and his face is more prominently shown than John.
"By Odin's fade?" "All eyes on me?" "Straight fire?" *I don't use that word often, but that's just cringy.*
imagine waling into mcdonnalds and saying all eyes on me
People saying "this is fire" is a real thing though. But yeah I agree that everything else is really awkward. Except the graffiti because Miles Morales likes street art and paints graffiti with his uncle
Great job tackling this subject. Subscribed.
I def agree with most of your points, but I think the point of the graffitied hammer is because Miles likes to spray paint. It was something he did with his uncle. Considering how talented he is artistically, they for sure could have made a better homage to his artistry. In the case of the comic, it absolutely does come across as “get it? He’s black!” And not “he’s an artist and one of his preferred mediums is spray paint!”. Very upsetting
Why do we have to remake older characters changing their skin colors? Just make new characters that are more inclusive.
Carole and Tuesday has amazing representation!!! The characters don’t feel like shallow stereotypes of the group they are apart and the music is amazing. I’m also happy you didn’t just call this “woke” without explaining why you feel that way. because when I watch people “criticize “ a certain media they just say it’s woke and bad without explaining how it’s woke in any way. Amazing video
If this was well made it would be so awesome though, imagine Miles with his actual personality being destined to be king of Asgard, when his character arc being spiderman already focuses so much in expectations and overcoming fear. Seeing that character arc extrapolated into another world would be so interesting, yet they had to make this joke of a comic book, I hope they remake this one day and make it actually good.
same
Honestly....yeah you're right this could have been great
I can't actually imagine that even if Miles was Thor that he would say "by Odins fade". Lmfao
lmaooo
@@MohammedAgbadi though this brings up a very important question... does Odin rock a fade and a cool beard? 👀
“By Odin’s Fade” is just Marvel’s “word to my timbs”
This comic smacks of "How do you do, fellow kids?"
lmaooo
How to make a good black character:
1. Make a good character
2 . Make them black
They can't even do that but they want to be a "comic artist"
Since DC Rebirth I've stopped reading comics because it was bad (BWL was good though) and when I see that stuff I'm glad I did 😭😭😭
Also an Asian Thor w/a rice hat could be cool if the design is coherent like Raiden mixed with Shang-Chi (like those black samurai hats) but they'll probably ruin it so nah
Oh god, don't give them ideas
@@nameillprobablyregret6533 I mean they had a guy named Miles Morales but stopped at "he's African American so let's look for every stereotype that we can find 😎"
Y'all Puerto Ricans dodged that bullet because they too ignorant to think deeper than that 😂😂
I don't to curse y'all though so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut ☠️☠️
Mwa Ka
So what makes this a bad black character? Because mentioning samurai hats and 'raiden' sounds like it should be a 'bad' asian character. It feels like certain people who have a general aversion to any representation of black culture want to use a bad example as a reason why you shouldn't represent a black characters race at all in any meaningful way.
@@Scoring57 I think you misunderstood what I've said.
When I mentioned Raiden it was about his character design, what he looks like not the character itself
I gave samurai hats as an example but there is a ton of asian originated hats (like kasas, salakót, ngob, belo and others) that could be used to make a cool looking Asian Thor without making it racist or stereotypical
The point of my comment was that even if they had tons and tons of material to take inspiration from they would still find a way to fuck it up and make it racist or ignorant in some way
0:24 I’d have said “hammer time”, too, though. That can’t be the first time that pun was made
same 😂
I love modernizing mythology, but this was just not it. So much more could've been done man, as a comic artist myself the lack of creativity when it came to exploring other cultures and resulting to stereotypes hurt
This is not the main topic, however something that kinda relates to the wider issue. When one writes poc characters in a fantasy setting, is “okay” to not take references from real world black culture and issues specifically affecting these groups since the setting would be different. For example creating a world where the people don’t care about skin colour and share one general culture, or would that erase the entire meaning behind the characters and end up being discriminatory to the groups in question? I’d greatly appreciate responses.
Ofc its okay lol. The idea that a black led LOTR style story HAS to deal with stuff like racism or issues specifically related to black folks is silly imo. Its literally reducing minorities to their struggles and skin color alone. It also ignore that even within a group ppl can have different experiences. Fantasy/SciFi is the lasr places POCs should feel obligated to adhire to reality.
If you're creating a world then you are also free to create the politics and such within that world as a whole, that can be used to make commentary on the real world via comparisons or contrasts like Terry Pratchett or... you could just have fun. Fantasy worlds shouldn't have to reflect the real world if it doesn't involve the real world at all, you could definitely make a fantasy world where skin color doesn't matter at all if you wanted.
let me get this straight black people have no problem acting like a stereotype on national television or the internet, but as soon as a white person or someone non-black starts to copy that then that's an issue? Tyler Perry does the same thing I don't see you talking about?! The comic is clearly for jokes
@@Nicejokeright you, my friend, are a master baiter. You have posted this exact point in at least four other threads that I have explored, and probably way more than that.
@@ComedicLetter you wanna know something else most of the people who replied like you didn't give any decent counterargument to debunk my claim. From what I learned the only thing all of you are good for is being hypocritical.
4:13 i thought that was referencing norse sagas,which were poems. It has a this "Bard Tale" feel.
0:45 what a cold cut🥶🥶🥶
homeboy caught the fade