Toriyama put a revamp in Xenoverse 2 for Mira. Basically Saiyan x Demon gene. Gohan's beast would be the closest right now and since it seems Daima takes place before Super, I doubt it'll show up. Would be dope, though! Also, since Toriyama didn't create SSJ4, he'd overwrite it. That's his usual method... Overwrite.
@@BelleVEXIn my opinion the most close to a Toryama SS4 is Broly Wrathful/Ikary state since he use the Oozaru Power without turning into an Oozaru and even Broly's eyes and hairs are very similar to SS4 Goku ones
SSJ4 is 100x better than Blue and Ultra Instinct. It's like Having Primal Rage but with control and the symbolism from OG to Z about the Great Ape form to come full circle into SSJ4 was a great contrast to what Super Sayin should be, not what Super is with God forms.
@@robertvaldez5929 that seems to be a theme that a majority of people keep saying so I'll take it me personally I don't want Broly to be the first to unlock it but everyone seems to want it so I won't oppose that idea.
@@TheMeriot1 fair enough, but goku and vegeta already have most of the same forms and everyone having them would be stale, I like that they gave gohan his own form to go down a different route for gohan and they should do the same w broly
@@robertvaldez5929 I honestly think it won't matter if they all have the same form or not the only thing that determines whether it's lit or not lit is how they write it and how well the characters perform using it because I for one loved the fact that Goku Vegeta and Gohan had Super Saiyan 4 and 5 in AF and it showed that even though they all had the form because that's their genome they all had different levels of depth in it. So me personally I believe Super Saiyan 4 should be the Pinnacle of what they as Saiyan's can do. So I believe the top warriors should be able to do it. The way it is on Old saiyans is simply perfect
Vegeta became SSJ4 whiteout a tail using bulma's bludswave machine, its possible that the moon in the demon realm creates stronger bludswave giving goku the abilitie to go ssj4 but this time whiteout a tail.
I have heard of the Dragon Ball GT 2.0 and all, but if the last thing that Akira Toriyama created was to be a rework of Dragon Ball GT into something that fans, old and new, can love, then he will be praised until the end of time. There are some things that I want to say about Daima; 1. The "Demon Namekian" in the Demon Realm, it is not that hard to interpret, because in Z King Kai said that the Namekians are peaceful by nature, and that Kami was just corrupted by the wars and bad side of humanity leading to him expelling his evil side and creating "Demon King Piccolo." So, the fact that a Namekian can be influneced by its environment, it would make sense that this Namekian in the Demon Realm is some sort of "Demon Namekian." 2. I heard theories and rumors and supposed "leaks" that these new Dragon Balls in the Demon Realm will used by the new king of the Demon Realm or the bad guys to turn everyone into a kid, and they ask Shenron, but Shenron says that the Dragon that did this is more powerful than he is so they have to find the Dragon Balls in the Demon Realm and wish for the previous wish to be undone. I can not confirm or deny any of this because I don't know. Now, maybe they can work with this and maybe make a few adjustments to some Dragon Ball stuff like people complaining about why Goten, Trunks and Maron still look like children when Trunks should be the same teenage age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died, maybe they can use that in Daima, because we saw Goten and Trunks and even Maron become babies again, or younger than they were, and Goku and them find the Demon Dragon Balls and wish to turn everyone back into adults, but Goten, Trunks and Maron stay the same and it is because the Dragon gives an explanation that is something along the lines of "Oh, I cannot affect them because they were not adults to begin with, so they will have to grow up naturally." Or something like that, where you have to be technical and specific with the Dragon Balls, then the Dragon Balls go away and they can not use them for a year or more, and that is the reason why Goten, Trunks, and Maron still look like children in Super. 3. They could possibly do Super Saiyan 4, because as with Supreme Kai and Kabito, they become unfused because they regress to children before they were merged and after everything is set back they will merge back again, it is not that too far fetched for them to make Super Saiyan 4 when they are in their adventures as children and when the wish or curse that makes them children is undone then they all go back to being adults so they lose their tails and the Super Saiyan 4 form and everything else that they got while they were children. Also, the only critiques that I have with Super Saiyan 4 is that I wish that the feet were more like the ape-like feet that looks like hands, and also for the Super Saiyan 4 form to take up the theories and rumors of the Fandom that that is the actual Legendary Super Saiyan form instead of calling it "Super Saiyan 4." 4. I don't believe that they guy whom you said looked like Dr. Myuu or a Tuffle is Dr. Myuu or even a Tuffle, I believe that he is someone and something else completely. However, it would be pretty awesome if he was a Tuffle. The Tuffles were an advanced and intelligent race with advanced technology, so maybe it is not outside of the realm of possibility that they maybe found inter-dimensional travel or multiversal travel to travel to other realms or other universes among the 12 and 18 universes. Maybe they can work with that and make it to where a few or some Tuffles used these methods to escape and survive the Tuffle Saiyan War and they are out there somewhere in other realms or in other universes waiting, gathering data, building strenght, and they will attack the Saiyans, or the remaining Saiyans and have their revenge, and this could lead to making characters like Dr. Myuu and General/Dr. Lychee canon, and maybe even make more survivors than that who they can introduce, either them or their creations to be a threat to the Saiyans. They can do that or they could possibly have a story where some Tuffles survive with the multiversal and inter-dimensional travel, and they rebuild their civilization and they turn themselves into androids or some kind of cyborgs or machine-like things like how you had General Rildo, Baby, the Tuffle twins from Dragon Ball Heroes, things like that to where they are a race of advanced androids now and they seek revenge on the Saiyans and it will be like a Second Saiyan Tuffle War, Tuffle Saiyan War 2, with Goku and Vegeta and them having to fight an army of advanced Tuffles. 5. Just to clarify, turning into a kid or something regressed how they were with Kabito and Supreme Kai unfusing, so by that logic, seeing Android 18 as a kid, that would mean that she is not an android anymore because that is before she was taken and experimented on by Dr. Gero, correct ? 6. Similar to the concept of Kabito and Supreme Kai, when Piccolo turns into a kid, will he defuse with Kami and Nail, and we will get to see them again? Maybe them as children? 7. There will be a "Demon Namekian" in Dragon Ball Daima, but there will also be this new Demon King and the Makioshin and the woman who creates the new Majin Buu like creatures and the Majin Buu clones themselves and ther other factions at war over the throne for the Demon Realm like the guy who resembles Dr. Myuu, but it said that they were not the main villains of Daima. Maybe the main villain of Daima could be the "Demon Namekian" ? Or if they go to the GT route, they can also introduce Shadow Dragons in Dragon Ball Daima, and it would be more than one villain are the main villains of Daima?
Ive always had a theory that daima would be a retconned GT, and if it is then we will have a retconned ssj4, thing is this series takes place before super. So in result we would assume then ssj4 is not possible because super happens afterwards and they never mentioned or had ssj4 in that series. Seems like that Makes sense right. Now in recent dbs anime/manga vegeta pretty much talks bout how theyve reach their limits in strength, he also states on how they been using “borrowed power” cause of god ki which is unnatural for saiyans. Gohan has no god ki and has reach a new pinnacle of power thru evolution of his own dna hence his beast forms and that alone rivals the power of gods (shown in the manga). Toyotaru stated that the black form frieza arc is the last arc in dbs, black form frieza one shotted ultra instinct and ultra ego, how will goku and vegeta beat frieza? I think because of daima, in the new dbs arc, vegeta and goku will have to call back to their days in daima and recover their “new ssj4” forms. Thats the only way to justify it and connect the two since daima is canon, if not then it makes me wonder more on why daima even exists in the first place
Makes a lot of sense. To beat Black Freiza, Goku needs to tap into SSJ4 plus use god ki on top of it. It can be something akin to SSJ4 with silver hair (ultra instinct), which is exactly what SSJ5 in Dragonball AF (not cannon) was, and it was Goku's last form. This way they can tie up the story that Toriyama wanted to do and also make the fan manga form cannon and end the series coming a full circle.
Okay so that doesn't mean shit lmao plus ssj4 isn't and will never be canon ssg and ssgss are far stronger and not to mention Goku and Vegeta are stronger in just base than ssj4
@@austinsmith5529 Broly wasn't canon! Gogeta wasn't canon! What you're saying means nothing whatever is Canon is whatever Toyama makes Canon! You haven't seen the show I haven't seen the show I'm just making a logical guess because of what was shown from the creator and from Torstowho made super so shut up with your fake TH-cam ass,! Make a real name dumb dumb.
In Super Dragon Ball Heroes, Super Saiyan 4 was on par with Base Super Saiyan Blue, so it's not far off to assume that Super Saiyan 4 is on par (if not beyond) the God Forms of DBS (excluding Ultra Instinct, unless we include Super Saiyan 5/Nirvana)
Xeno gokus base power is much greater than regular gokus base power and yet they are relative to each other in blue and ssj4 which means ssj4 is inferior to ssb.
@@GrandGourdFrom what I’ve been able to gather from different faucets of Dragon Ball media, Blue is presented to have much more raw power than 4. This does make sense though since blue is two steps ahead of ssj3 which 4 is only one step ahead. In that sense comparing 4 to god would probably be fairer. But regardless from what I’ve seen 4 tends to have different strengths such as being able to hold out until the last drop of power and being a transformation that takes up very little power to maintain. Blue on the other hand has been stated to be very energy consuming at times, especially when being activated. This was highlighted the clearest in the manga U7 v U6 arc. But in fairness Goku and Vegeta may have overcome that in some way now. Idk I’m not trying to argue that one is better than the other, I just like thinking about dragon ball stuff hahahah
This is a good vid MajinBird. I love a few of the concept ideas, such as SSJ for Goku being a creation from the demon realm, I just don’t like how that form would be limited to the demon realm as well. All in all if that many changes have to be made for the creation of SSJ4, then it doesn’t need to be created at least not in this timeline. Which is a little weird to at the same time because technically Wees and Beerus exist prior to battle of gods in this specific time frame right after the defeat of Kid Buu. I think it shows Whis as a child. Weird but makes sense since, the teenager angel was a teenager. For me that he was once a child. He was on the angels life spans can be eternal as they grow in power, easily out lasting any of the god of destruction any of the Kaioshin. It’s just too much what if work to be done in order to make super sand for fit. The only thing I can actually see this working through would be dimer somehow would have to fit within the newest time I like it’s a prequel but it’s also current. The prequel dating back to right after Kid Buu is defeated. But then making it current and super as it shows Goku and Vegeta somewhere within the timeframe of DBS Broly, super super hero something like that. The vast majority of the Fanbase is gonna go through a major hate crisis. Because there are essential things that cannot be tampered with and in my personal opinion should not be tampered with when it comes to the SSJ4 form. It’s perfect the way it is and I would go to wager to say it’s not that it isn’t a form built upon hate, it’s just that heat was too strong so Goku needed love to navigate a lesser power level and a lesser form of the golden great ape which is SSJ4. Many fans get it confused. SSJ4 is not Stronger than The Golden Great Ape. SSJ4 is a digression of The Golden Oozaru. All concepts NGT don’t need to be utilized, but the court essential concepts of how SSJ for King to be must be utilized it is the heart and soul of the transformation, if you will. Reincorporating the Santel is not a problem because I think it was seen and showcased when Goku turned into an SJ3. I could be wrong I forget but in that moment it look like he had a tail for a moment because it showed him as a Great Ape. The thing I love about GT, It’s hot in Inc. concepts from DBZ namely SSJ3 Goku’s transformation tapping into the raw latent inner potential of The Oozaru. Thus emphasizing Primal Saiyan Power. Somethings just don’t need to be changed. And the SSJ4 transformation is definitely one of them.
3:46 two good reason, is in dragon ball z ssj was a huge surprise to them, so was super ssj 3. In other words they have no idea what the next transformation is. When berrus came around he taught them god ki, thats where their focuse went. Ssj4, got looked over because they think ssjg transformations are better. Or maybe berrus didn't want them to reach that ssj4, so he taught them god ki. I think it would be pretty easy to explain, it can be as simple of an answer as "they got distracted with god ki" or berrus didn't want them to know.
No, don't make demon realm exclusive that kind seems like a slap in the face, to the fans of ssj 4. I get there is a bunch of "forms" already but ssjg ssjgssj are kinda lame.
Ssj4 in a modern, oficial and well made DB is my dream, i can comfortably die after seeing it. And its more possible now than ever was, with gohan blanco now officialized.
If I'm not mistaken, I think Daima will be taking place between Buu Saga and Battle of Gods, so I don't think they will be getting any new forms, because it wouldn't make sense them not using it in whole Super, but maybe Vegeta gets SSJ 3, idk. Also GT occurs 10 after the Buu saga, that's after Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, so it means that if Daima makes SSJ4 canon, it would be 10 years before in GT, and he needs to loose it someway to make sense with Super. I like SSJ4, but I think is better to wait until Dragon Ball Super reaches the GT era to make SSJ4 canon. All of this is obviosly ignoring that Shueisha doesn't have the rights to add SSJ4 to the manga, it is Toei's property
I’m hoping for this show is that super Saiyan four is going to be like in a background where Goku just walking past it and they have to come back to that area to find the way to go to the next level
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but nobody in Daima is a kid again. Just google it and they’ve already explained tons of times that they aren’t kids and just mini versions of themselves. Why do you think Roshi is still bald. If he went young he’d have a head full of hair. Even their descriptions are mini Goku, mini Vegeta, mini piccolo. No kids
Goten and Trunks have clearly been de-aged. Roshi states he's always been bald, and the only time we see him with hair is in a filler episode of the original dragon ball which isn't canon to daima. Lastly, roshi would have his beard if his body were just "made smaller than usual." It's obvious he lost that beard because his body had be de-aged to a state before puberty.
Our man, akira toriyama. This was his last project, from what I heard toriyama had a huge hand in this. So you should be excited for it. But to each there own i guess
8:26 that ssj4 goku that's in midget/kid form is the form, I have been waiting on since I saw the first appearance of ssj4 I hope they do something like it that is at least similar design to the ssj4 transformation It doesn't have to look exactly like ssj4 but a somewhat brand new evolve asaru ape/humanoid transformation
I could see it being a more mastered version of super saiyan 3 that is exclusive to daima because he can control the energy better in his smaller body. A sleek looking super saiyan 3 but his hair reverts back to black but stays longer and has a calmness similar to omen but more primal.
I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I've never been into the Super series (movies are great though). Daima is the first time in a long time that I've been interested in the series again. And I would not mind if they re-worked some concepts from GT to make them fit into the cannon. I love GT a lot, despite all of its flaws, and it will always sit as a standalone concept apart from all the other parts of the show. That's what makes it so special. I think fans are too attached to one concept of what makes Dragon Ball what it is, but its such a massive show that they dont realize just how much variety there is across the entire series. So its hard to keep every single last minute detail aligned. Sometimes what makes the show fun isnt always what makes the most sense, and thats okay.
There is just quite a bit wrong with this . The narrative loses its greatness when u mess with the story elements cuz it was just perfect the way it was , golden ozaru needs to be the struggling stage before ssj4 , u don't spawn that form out of nothing and even if u copy paste the narrative golden ozaru is just the perfect form that should be the rageful stage before it , its the strongest saiyan form it should be combining all their branches . Golden ozaru combining saiyan nature and human nurture by the roots with earth starting the ozaru transformation for the first time and it being his central motivation to try to calm down , bullying baby as his nightmare comes to life before losing sight of him in blind rage and having to conquer it surpassing saiyans nature completely as well as power this time to win , with Pan's persistence to get through to him becoming the final push to trigger it in time , coming from yelling at Gohan in first ssj to smiling at Pan in first ssj4 it's all important in what makes the form the best of dragon ball and especially the most fitting for Goku other than just the design reminding of Son Wukong that he's inspired from . Golden ozaru is not something u remove from it at all , then Baby as the villain who put him through this test and just the overall story of that arc making an awesome play on love vs hate while giving ssj4 the perfect role in it . Let alone the fact that this is THE form for Goku it should be his final and not reintroduced with watered down narrative to become obsolete to the dbs forms which take place in the continuity of this series later . Ssj4 can't be made greater than it is unless u are pretty much just reanimating the baby arc not messing with the story and plot and that bold artstyle just adding modern animation to what it already is . I hope daima is a fine show , but just not have ssj4 cuz what we already know about it is making sure it'll be watered down if they bring it. Just let it stay the goat it is . Also , daima trailer showing it in the montage of important db series starting with og manga already confirms that its canon only leaving out z movies and heroes , the non canon claims never had an official backing and now they've been disproved with that .
i never really liked the whole "ssj4 overrides the wish from the dragon balls", it just really never made sense. if goku was and old man, wished for youth and became an ssj4, would he become old again? or if he had immortality, then by that logic ssj4 would remove the immortality. my theory is that ssj4 puts the user into their most prime fighting state. it is the ultimate saiyan power combining their ancient brutal nature (great ape), with their modern control and phyique. when goku, who is in a child's body with less control over his power (can't maintain ssj3 or use techniques like instant transmission since his body isn't disciplined enough), the ssj4 transformation puts his body into one of roughly 30 years of age, when a saiyan is at their absolute peak. even vegeta seems to age DOWN slightly, looking a bit more like he did in DBZ.
Well no it does because there’s first hand evidence of Shenrons magic not being effective on beings stronger than him. Hence why he couldn’t alter the body composition of the androids at the time of the cell saga and turn them human. Similar situation here where goku’s super saiyan 4 form needs an adult body and overrides the spell that’s keeping him a child for the duration of the transformation. We also know that goku and the rest of the Z cast keep their power levels close to zero when they aren’t fighting which could be reason to why he’s able to altered in the first place by shenrons wish.
@@TheRed02151 but base form goku is already way stronger than pretty much anyone else, even fighting on par with someone with the same strength as majin buu (between uub and rildo). i can understand if it would've blocked the initial wish, but once the wish is done, that's it. it's not like a curse, it's a permanent change
well that's not really a theory. the form can't bring out "the ultimate potential of a saiyan" (GT Perfect File description of SSJ4) if that saiyan is a wrinkly old man.
They should have took the great apes transformation even furthur it would be there second base form to strengthen their other sayion forms to help them find other transformations
To be fair, it never did make sense that Goku was made into a kid in GT, because Pilaf wished for him to become small, but he didnt become small, he became a child. So if Daima says theyre "chibi" but they appear as children, that could be a red herring of sorts
I still believe that the old theory if broly didn’t have his tail removed back in super broly movie he might have went ssj4 in his fight with goku and vegeta and remember broly ssj1 overpowered those two when there where in blue so broly ssj4 would definitely be overkill. So I wouldn’t say ssj4 is weaker but evenly match or close. Plus having more power doesn’t always mean you win
There's so many braindead knuckledraggers in the comments who didn't watch the video or even try to make sense of your logic. This idea you have for re-contextualizing and reworking ssj4 is fantastic. There's a lot they can work with in Daima, and I very much like the concept of only being able to use such a form in the demon realm, reminds me of how Goku was only able to unlock ssj3 in other world without having the limitations he did on Earth, and how it ultimately functioned better in other world because of that.
I love your theory of the Super Saiyan 4 a new back story but could it have the Super Saiyan 4 hair but no fur on the body with Ikari eyes like Broly had
I wouldnt like to see more transformations and ssj4 aswell. They supposed to be fighters, not some magical fairies. I would like to see something like Goku learning how to get rid of all transformations and achieving the strenght of ssj3 in his base to become sort of calm martial art master. In that sense I would like Daima to retcon ultra instinct and get rid of Super series
Super sayian 4 is the best Transformation I'm not hateing on super but it never stuck to me as GT did I feel dragon ball & dragon ball z Dragon ball GT was the best ending of the The series I was hopeing to get more of GT with goku Jr & vegeta Jr and see a hole new cast of Z fighters and villians we but we never got that don't get me wrong there were stuff I liket of super but there were I noticed about goku and vegeta there not the same charaecters we new from dragon ball z because you can see it in goku you don't see being a tuff guy anymore you see as man child and dose not say his say his most fameus lines leave now or leave me no choice to but to fight it's like we're is that and his super dragon fist attack his ability to read mines in GT vegeta actualy cared about goku and his family he became more wise still kept his cocky adatude that's why I love GT vegeta more then supers vegeta.
They state the fact that the great apes are the sayions strongest form right so what if goku took a trip into the past and met Akuma the first sayion god and he train goku and vegeta for and upscaling event that would take place in their future after he sends them back from being children to rewrite an error in the dbz timeline
Aparantly Brolys green transformation called Icori is pretty much the power of the great ape but in human form. Soooooo essentially wouldn’t that be considered ssj4 since Goku had to go greate ape then golden then revert to his human form while holding on to that golden great ape power? Essentially isn’t Broly ssj 4? I mean this makes sense rite? Since everyone has there own path they are following like Goku with UI, Vegita with UE, Gohan with Beast, and Piccolo with Orange, why not give Broly the most Primal form like Ssj4. It’ll be a cool way to show his control over his primal power too. ❤
Dont forget sjj4 has similar mui technique that if he gets attacked by a attack that same wont work again and he can close his eyes and dodge attacks like mui but goku ssj4 lost to omega bec it took most of hos stamina 😢
I rather them get a temporary buff to the ssj form which only appears in daima instead of making ssj4 (cuz making ssj4 in daima wud be stupid imo) So something like universal blue in heroes concept. Since they in the demon realm, have demon energy merge with ssj or somethin
Goku and the gang can’t use their god powers. Goku then learns to use super Saiyan four. He is unable to regain his power to fight the final boss one last time. Fuses God Power into super Saiyan four. If this movie is cannon, they’ll have to change it from Dragon Ball heroes. I’ve seen leaked pictures of a golden super Saiyan, four with the cloud like ring around him representing almost like a godly form. Kind of like what one piece did yo luffy’s gear 5. combining it maybe with magic too? I do know in the league picture or fanart, Goku ‘s staff returns.
Look broly became cannon with dragon Ball super broly. Because people love the character so much the creator of dragon Ball canonized the character. Even gogeta was not canon until that movie. So it begs to differ that what's going to happen is Goku and Vegeta get turned into kids. There you go
SSJ4 should have been the goal look considering they are Ozaru's driven beings. I know in art having to color in all that would be annoying. Technology has come far. These programs now doe's all that for you even the tails would be auto added if they wanted. I personally dislike the blue version especially after we got red. Red had such a short life and I feel that red could have transitioned into SSJ4 and making the monkey look their strongest form and new base. Sun Wukong 4realz lol
i think what should happen is goku should get mind control by a demon and throughout the course of the series his tail slowly coming back thenn him turning into an ozaru and breaking free of the mind control through the power of love a better excuse or ssj4 not being used as much is it will overtime make gokumore and more evil due to the demon powers also vegeta should not have ssj 3 he should get a special form for himself
It wouldnt make sense if he did. 1. Ss4 was a dragonball gt thing, and gt isnt canon. And 2, daima takes place after buus defeat but before super, so if they has ssj4 in daima, wouldnt they at least mention it in super when he primarily fights beerus or frieza?
We got a different version of Broly. I can see ssj4 gettin a redo. Or gt gettin a redo. As far as it not bein brought up. Maybe no one ever got past ssj before them.
(This isn't related to the video, just saying my opinion) Although not canon, Super Saiyan 4 is on par with Incomplete/Base Super Saiyan Blue (as shown in Super Dragon Ball Heroes). They could perhaps use that as a base for how strong the form is (for you powerscalers), and if we got a combination of SSB and SS4, then *that* would probably be on Beerus' level, although the form would only work if Goku was dead, due to the sheer power of said form.
im pretty sure the ssj4 thats on par with ssjb in dbh is the normal one isnt it? i remember theres a limit breaker or smth like that which is like the ultra state for the ssj4 (i havent watched heroes in a long time so maybe im confusing stuff)
Super Saiyan great ape is grade grade 8 super sayian ? Goku at the cell tournament is grade 4,,Gohan grade 5. Majin vegeta grade 6. And gotanks/goku grade 7. I just wanted to put this down.
If they do ssj4 then they are basically tossing out Super. Daima is too similar to DBGT, im enjoying it, but ill be lying if i say its not a let down. This whole turned into kids again by some tiny guy using dragonballs has already been done. Id rather see super progress i to the other arcs that are after the tournament of power. If they introduce any new transformation other than bug fusion, then they mess up the continuity of the story. This is why productions should reconsider jumping around the timeline of their IP. Continuity used to actually be important, its what led to a continuing story to begin with.
Daima is cool and all but it'd be a waste to bring back ssj4 without it being GT with new animation , u could change some stuff here and there but i don't want anything with ssj4 messed with , from the way gets the tail back to the awesome execution when he gets the form the whole sequence since earth starting the ozaru transformation for the first time while he's frustrated for not being able to protect earth , bullying Baby as his nightmare comes to life once again then losing sight of him in blind rage then earth becoming his central motivation to calm down again , struggling to do it and getting angry thumping his chest looking at earth almost looking like a child complaining to his parent , then Pan's persistence to get through to him despite him attacking her and pushing her away becoming the final push to hold his hands up towards earth as if directly gaining strength from it and slowly take the humanoid form ssj4 in a peak scene screaming at the top of his lungs while chain like electrocity forms around him signifying the tamimg of a beast and earth goes red in the background . The journey from yelling at Gohan when he first turned ssj to just smiling at Pan when he first turned ssj4 was amazing and perfect. Baby arc's story in general with Ssj4 being first introduced to be the exclusive counter against Baby is already gold , i'd only take the fights being made longer but no need to touch the plot and story itself or change the bold artstyle . U change so much elements like this and timeline and the peak story gets lost like isn't this before end of z too so how little is Pan gonna be ? And this is also supposed to be canon to super so ssj4 is just gonna be brought back to be one of the forms that became obsolete ? Goku doesn't get done better than Ssj4 before i even mention he was inspired from Son Wukong in the first place which makes it being his final form even more fitting after the narrative was already enough for that . Daima being canon to super and taking place before already makes this a no no .
3:14 And this is more of what i'm talking about , the writing is perfect it shouldn't be be changed . U don't just spawn ssj4 out of nowhere without making golden great ape for it to be the combination and clash of saiyan nature and human nurture , before finally making humanity win with ssj4 and solidifying Goku as the saiyan with a human heart , the poster boy of proving more than he was born to be , this time completely surpassing saiyan nature as well as power conquering their strongest rage , it's only even more fitting after Golden ozaru was already shown when Vegeta talked of ssj and ssj3 showing a glimpse of ozaru implying its going towards that in the anime , but with or without that part the narrative loses some of its greatness when u remove golden ozaru. Even if u were to say we're gonna copy paste the narrative but just make the rageful stage look different , it still isn't right cuz Golden ozaru fits right in that's just perfectly what should be that struggling stage before ssj4 , ssj4 is the strongest saiyan form it only makes sense u combine all their transformation branches to get it . If important stuff is gonna get compromised there's no point of making it in daima. Nice vid , the theories are interesting , i'm hoping daima is a fine show , but just not have ssj4 cuz what we know about daima already stops the form from being as good as it is .
Also one thing , daima trailer showing GT only confirms it is canon . The non canon claims online never had an official backing and now they're simply proven wrong when GT is shown in the montage of important db series starting with og db in daima trailer , only leaving out z movies and heroes .
I won't , Ssj4 is clear cut the goat and best form this franchise made i don't want it to be watered down by messing with the perfect story elements of baby arc and the themes love vs hate at all let alone changing it as much as its already bound to be by what we know about daima , to make it just another one of the forms that became obsolete among the dbs ones . It has the best narrative and perfect to be Goku's final form , i don't want a downgraded version . I too am grateful this is just a theory an ssjb treatment of ssj4 would be horrible . Only way they could make it better is add modern animation to what it already is .
Sad part, Toriyama liked GT. Clearly, as he wrote Daima. Yet, fans of any franchise are too damn hateful. If the man himself like GT, why can't people just sit back and think, you know what, lemme see what Toriyama saw.
I like ssj4 I like sorry to say this o% chsnce form return to dragon ball daima I alway tired this form gonna change kr not I like ssj4 I like design ssj4 I sorry day this form is not gonna to return to drsgon ball daima
Super saiyan 4 way stronger than blue and god Don't know why You had to make That Arguable statement. Unless you're trying to create another debate again good.
This is why dragonball sucks now - ss4 is way more iconic than fucking super saiyan god or ss blue (these were way fucking lazy transformations) tying ss4 back to the power of the ape form is peak saiyan lore - going to god status gives you no where else to go it’ll just get more ridiculous as it continues
True , but daima is not the way to go about it . U can only make it better than it is by adding modern animation , its introduction should be exactly as it is within Baby arc with story being as it is , u could make the fights but not mess with the plot and story itself . It's not only gonna get a watered down narrative trynna fit it in a different story than baby arc against a different villain , but it'll also be obsolete as this series takes place in dbs continuity before it .
Would You Guys Like A SSJ4 Revamp?
Toriyama put a revamp in Xenoverse 2 for Mira. Basically Saiyan x Demon gene. Gohan's beast would be the closest right now and since it seems Daima takes place before Super, I doubt it'll show up. Would be dope, though! Also, since Toriyama didn't create SSJ4, he'd overwrite it. That's his usual method... Overwrite.
@@BelleVEXIn my opinion the most close to a Toryama SS4 is Broly Wrathful/Ikary state since he use the Oozaru Power without turning into an Oozaru and even Broly's eyes and hairs are very similar to SS4 Goku ones
super sayan 2 grade ape and ther regain control
I would love a ssj4 however it would add errors because Diama is before super and after z so if goku gets ssj4 why did he use ssj3 against beerus
@@joshpayne8353 maybe the form can be used only in the demon realm and so Goku and Vegeta can't use that anymore
SSJ4 is the greatest sayain transformation of all time
SsJ4 is peak dragon ball
SSJ3 and SSJ4 > Any DBS form
Ssj 1 is better
Ssj 1 is better
Ssj 1 is the best saiyan transformation
SSJ4 is 100x better than Blue and Ultra Instinct. It's like Having Primal Rage but with control and the symbolism from OG to Z about the Great Ape form to come full circle into SSJ4 was a great contrast to what Super Sayin should be, not what Super is with God forms.
UI SSJ4 would unironically go crazy, i'd love to see that. It would literally be SSJ5 but with shorter hair tho lol @VictorNieves-o3o
UI is also a full circle transformation for goku the god forms suck but ui is probably the most fitting transformation for goku in the series
Ultra instinct is better than ssj4
@@Nightfoxx444Ssj4 pretty much already has what UI is and it's emphasised more in shadow dragon arc.
Not it’s not…besides the design the form is not all that
if its a transformation that he can only do in one location i rather not have it at all
Yeah that's dumb as hell. Honestly they should just reintroduce it the same way it was introduced in GT they don't need to change its origin at all.
@@TheMeriot1facts and give it to Broly since his ikari form is related to the great ape form
@@robertvaldez5929 that seems to be a theme that a majority of people keep saying so I'll take it me personally I don't want Broly to be the first to unlock it but everyone seems to want it so I won't oppose that idea.
@@TheMeriot1 fair enough, but goku and vegeta already have most of the same forms and everyone having them would be stale, I like that they gave gohan his own form to go down a different route for gohan and they should do the same w broly
@@robertvaldez5929 I honestly think it won't matter if they all have the same form or not the only thing that determines whether it's lit or not lit is how they write it and how well the characters perform using it because I for one loved the fact that Goku Vegeta and Gohan had Super Saiyan 4 and 5 in AF and it showed that even though they all had the form because that's their genome they all had different levels of depth in it. So me personally I believe Super Saiyan 4 should be the Pinnacle of what they as Saiyan's can do. So I believe the top warriors should be able to do it. The way it is on Old saiyans is simply perfect
Absolutely no way there will be a SSJ4 since Daima is supposed to take place before the events of Battle of Gods, as said by Toyotaro
Bruh we seriously do not need God forms and ultra instinct in this😭
@@yandelbenitez150 I doubt they'll be there since it takes place before Battle of Gods
Thank you somebody pays attention
@@heru6060 yessir
Well I didn't know it takes place before Super 😮 makes this series all the more weird
You need a tail to obtain SS4. Goku loses his tail at the end of Daima. Problem solved.
Or you need to be a child giveing something to trunks and goten to do
@@Spider-Man42069Both Goten & Trunks did NOT have their tails in the Buu saga already
Vegeta became SSJ4 whiteout a tail using bulma's bludswave machine, its possible that the moon in the demon realm creates stronger bludswave giving goku the abilitie to go ssj4 but this time whiteout a tail.
Thank you, someone with a working brain 😂
But not being able to use that power no more sounds lame
@@jameshollister8294 it doesn't look like Daima is connected to super so we could have seen it more often if toriyama was still alive.
@@soulesx8074defusing Shin & Kibito fits with DBS definetly not with GT were potara fusion was always permanent
I have heard of the Dragon Ball GT 2.0 and all, but if the last thing that Akira Toriyama created was to be a rework of Dragon Ball GT into something that fans, old and new, can love, then he will be praised until the end of time.
There are some things that I want to say about Daima;
1. The "Demon Namekian" in the Demon Realm, it is not that hard to interpret, because in Z King Kai said that the Namekians are peaceful by nature, and that Kami was just corrupted by the wars and bad side of humanity leading to him expelling his evil side and creating "Demon King Piccolo." So, the fact that a Namekian can be influneced by its environment, it would make sense that this Namekian in the Demon Realm is some sort of "Demon Namekian."
2. I heard theories and rumors and supposed "leaks" that these new Dragon Balls in the Demon Realm will used by the new king of the Demon Realm or the bad guys to turn everyone into a kid, and they ask Shenron, but Shenron says that the Dragon that did this is more powerful than he is so they have to find the Dragon Balls in the Demon Realm and wish for the previous wish to be undone. I can not confirm or deny any of this because I don't know. Now, maybe they can work with this and maybe make a few adjustments to some Dragon Ball stuff like people complaining about why Goten, Trunks and Maron still look like children when Trunks should be the same teenage age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died, maybe they can use that in Daima, because we saw Goten and Trunks and even Maron become babies again, or younger than they were, and Goku and them find the Demon Dragon Balls and wish to turn everyone back into adults, but Goten, Trunks and Maron stay the same and it is because the Dragon gives an explanation that is something along the lines of "Oh, I cannot affect them because they were not adults to begin with, so they will have to grow up naturally." Or something like that, where you have to be technical and specific with the Dragon Balls, then the Dragon Balls go away and they can not use them for a year or more, and that is the reason why Goten, Trunks, and Maron still look like children in Super.
3. They could possibly do Super Saiyan 4, because as with Supreme Kai and Kabito, they become unfused because they regress to children before they were merged and after everything is set back they will merge back again, it is not that too far fetched for them to make Super Saiyan 4 when they are in their adventures as children and when the wish or curse that makes them children is undone then they all go back to being adults so they lose their tails and the Super Saiyan 4 form and everything else that they got while they were children.
Also, the only critiques that I have with Super Saiyan 4 is that I wish that the feet were more like the ape-like feet that looks like hands, and also for the Super Saiyan 4 form to take up the theories and rumors of the Fandom that that is the actual Legendary Super Saiyan form instead of calling it "Super Saiyan 4."
4. I don't believe that they guy whom you said looked like Dr. Myuu or a Tuffle is Dr. Myuu or even a Tuffle, I believe that he is someone and something else completely. However, it would be pretty awesome if he was a Tuffle. The Tuffles were an advanced and intelligent race with advanced technology, so maybe it is not outside of the realm of possibility that they maybe found inter-dimensional travel or multiversal travel to travel to other realms or other universes among the 12 and 18 universes. Maybe they can work with that and make it to where a few or some Tuffles used these methods to escape and survive the Tuffle Saiyan War and they are out there somewhere in other realms or in other universes waiting, gathering data, building strenght, and they will attack the Saiyans, or the remaining Saiyans and have their revenge, and this could lead to making characters like Dr. Myuu and General/Dr. Lychee canon, and maybe even make more survivors than that who they can introduce, either them or their creations to be a threat to the Saiyans. They can do that or they could possibly have a story where some Tuffles survive with the multiversal and inter-dimensional travel, and they rebuild their civilization and they turn themselves into androids or some kind of cyborgs or machine-like things like how you had General Rildo, Baby, the Tuffle twins from Dragon Ball Heroes, things like that to where they are a race of advanced androids now and they seek revenge on the Saiyans and it will be like a Second Saiyan Tuffle War, Tuffle Saiyan War 2, with Goku and Vegeta and them having to fight an army of advanced Tuffles.
5. Just to clarify, turning into a kid or something regressed how they were with Kabito and Supreme Kai unfusing, so by that logic, seeing Android 18 as a kid, that would mean that she is not an android anymore because that is before she was taken and experimented on by Dr. Gero, correct ?
6. Similar to the concept of Kabito and Supreme Kai, when Piccolo turns into a kid, will he defuse with Kami and Nail, and we will get to see them again? Maybe them as children?
7. There will be a "Demon Namekian" in Dragon Ball Daima, but there will also be this new Demon King and the Makioshin and the woman who creates the new Majin Buu like creatures and the Majin Buu clones themselves and ther other factions at war over the throne for the Demon Realm like the guy who resembles Dr. Myuu, but it said that they were not the main villains of Daima. Maybe the main villain of Daima could be the "Demon Namekian" ? Or if they go to the GT route, they can also introduce Shadow Dragons in Dragon Ball Daima, and it would be more than one villain are the main villains of Daima?
YOOOO I was just thinking this. Ssj 4 could have pointy ears. May get an exclusive form in the demon realm
Great vid bro. Looking forward to the series!!
Ive always had a theory that daima would be a retconned GT, and if it is then we will have a retconned ssj4, thing is this series takes place before super. So in result we would assume then ssj4 is not possible because super happens afterwards and they never mentioned or had ssj4 in that series. Seems like that Makes sense right.
Now in recent dbs anime/manga vegeta pretty much talks bout how theyve reach their limits in strength, he also states on how they been using “borrowed power” cause of god ki which is unnatural for saiyans. Gohan has no god ki and has reach a new pinnacle of power thru evolution of his own dna hence his beast forms and that alone rivals the power of gods (shown in the manga).
Toyotaru stated that the black form frieza arc is the last arc in dbs, black form frieza one shotted ultra instinct and ultra ego, how will goku and vegeta beat frieza? I think because of daima, in the new dbs arc, vegeta and goku will have to call back to their days in daima and recover their “new ssj4” forms. Thats the only way to justify it and connect the two since daima is canon, if not then it makes me wonder more on why daima even exists in the first place
That last part, yeah if that isn't the case, this new series doesn't even have a purpose to be made
@@Khann_2102 as much as i am hyped for daima, i still believe that daima should/could of been “the next arc” in super
@@TheOGB_ChannelIt should be
Sad but SSJ4 won't happen because it's a Canon prequel to Super
Makes a lot of sense. To beat Black Freiza, Goku needs to tap into SSJ4 plus use god ki on top of it. It can be something akin to SSJ4 with silver hair (ultra instinct), which is exactly what SSJ5 in Dragonball AF (not cannon) was, and it was Goku's last form. This way they can tie up the story that Toriyama wanted to do and also make the fan manga form cannon and end the series coming a full circle.
What I love about the SSJ4 is that it was a transformation from its Saiyan Roots as Goku was never meant to be a god.
Please let us not all forget when Beerus has his dream of the SSJG the Saiyan and the dream has a tale! There you go
Okay so that doesn't mean shit lmao plus ssj4 isn't and will never be canon ssg and ssgss are far stronger and not to mention Goku and Vegeta are stronger in just base than ssj4
@@austinsmith5529 Broly wasn't canon! Gogeta wasn't canon! What you're saying means nothing whatever is Canon is whatever Toyama makes Canon! You haven't seen the show I haven't seen the show I'm just making a logical guess because of what was shown from the creator and from Torstowho made super so shut up with your fake TH-cam ass,! Make a real name dumb dumb.
@austinsmith5529 that's the dumbest comment i have ever seen
Diema supposed to take place before Battle with the gods and what not but I think that leaves a huge plot hole in Super.
Daima was gonna be a GT remake there's gonna be even more arguments on how Super Saiyan 4 could beat God forms of Super Super Saiyan interesting
if ssj4 is in daima which takes place between majin buu saga and battle of gods it wouldnt be a argument
In Super Dragon Ball Heroes, Super Saiyan 4 was on par with Base Super Saiyan Blue, so it's not far off to assume that Super Saiyan 4 is on par (if not beyond) the God Forms of DBS (excluding Ultra Instinct, unless we include Super Saiyan 5/Nirvana)
Goku in GT said the transformation had no limits. So maybe they do something like that?
Xeno gokus base power is much greater than regular gokus base power and yet they are relative to each other in blue and ssj4 which means ssj4 is inferior to ssb.
@@GrandGourdFrom what I’ve been able to gather from different faucets of Dragon Ball media, Blue is presented to have much more raw power than 4. This does make sense though since blue is two steps ahead of ssj3 which 4 is only one step ahead. In that sense comparing 4 to god would probably be fairer. But regardless from what I’ve seen 4 tends to have different strengths such as being able to hold out until the last drop of power and being a transformation that takes up very little power to maintain. Blue on the other hand has been stated to be very energy consuming at times, especially when being activated. This was highlighted the clearest in the manga U7 v U6 arc. But in fairness Goku and Vegeta may have overcome that in some way now. Idk I’m not trying to argue that one is better than the other, I just like thinking about dragon ball stuff hahahah
I hope it be a new Demon Super Saiyan Form, not a retold ssj4
This is a good vid MajinBird. I love a few of the concept ideas, such as SSJ for Goku being a creation from the demon realm, I just don’t like how that form would be limited to the demon realm as well.
All in all if that many changes have to be made for the creation of SSJ4, then it doesn’t need to be created at least not in this timeline. Which is a little weird to at the same time because technically Wees and Beerus exist prior to battle of gods in this specific time frame right after the defeat of Kid Buu. I think it shows Whis as a child. Weird but makes sense since, the teenager angel was a teenager. For me that he was once a child. He was on the angels life spans can be eternal as they grow in power, easily out lasting any of the god of destruction any of the Kaioshin.
It’s just too much what if work to be done in order to make super sand for fit. The only thing I can actually see this working through would be dimer somehow would have to fit within the newest time I like it’s a prequel but it’s also current. The prequel dating back to right after Kid Buu is defeated. But then making it current and super as it shows Goku and Vegeta somewhere within the timeframe of DBS Broly, super super hero something like that.
The vast majority of the Fanbase is gonna go through a major hate crisis. Because there are essential things that cannot be tampered with and in my personal opinion should not be tampered with when it comes to the SSJ4 form.
It’s perfect the way it is and I would go to wager to say it’s not that it isn’t a form built upon hate, it’s just that heat was too strong so Goku needed love to navigate a lesser power level and a lesser form of the golden great ape which is SSJ4.
Many fans get it confused. SSJ4 is not Stronger than The Golden Great Ape. SSJ4 is a digression of The Golden Oozaru. All concepts NGT don’t need to be utilized, but the court essential concepts of how SSJ for King to be must be utilized it is the heart and soul of the transformation, if you will. Reincorporating the Santel is not a problem because I think it was seen and showcased when Goku turned into an SJ3. I could be wrong I forget but in that moment it look like he had a tail for a moment because it showed him as a Great Ape. The thing I love about GT, It’s hot in Inc. concepts from DBZ namely SSJ3 Goku’s transformation tapping into the raw latent inner potential of The Oozaru. Thus emphasizing Primal Saiyan Power.
Somethings just don’t need to be changed. And the SSJ4 transformation is definitely one of them.
Great theory man
3:46 two good reason, is in dragon ball z ssj was a huge surprise to them, so was super ssj 3. In other words they have no idea what the next transformation is. When berrus came around he taught them god ki, thats where their focuse went.
Ssj4, got looked over because they think ssjg transformations are better. Or maybe berrus didn't want them to reach that ssj4, so he taught them god ki. I think it would be pretty easy to explain, it can be as simple of an answer as "they got distracted with god ki" or berrus didn't want them to know.
No, don't make demon realm exclusive that kind seems like a slap in the face, to the fans of ssj 4. I get there is a bunch of "forms" already but ssjg ssjgssj are kinda lame.
This is the opportunity for them to change super saiyan 4 , recolor it to look more ape like and less pink panther.
Ssj4 in a modern, oficial and well made DB is my dream, i can comfortably die after seeing it. And its more possible now than ever was, with gohan blanco now officialized.
If I'm not mistaken, I think Daima will be taking place between Buu Saga and Battle of Gods, so I don't think they will be getting any new forms, because it wouldn't make sense them not using it in whole Super, but maybe Vegeta gets SSJ 3, idk. Also GT occurs 10 after the Buu saga, that's after Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, so it means that if Daima makes SSJ4 canon, it would be 10 years before in GT, and he needs to loose it someway to make sense with Super. I like SSJ4, but I think is better to wait until Dragon Ball Super reaches the GT era to make SSJ4 canon.
All of this is obviosly ignoring that Shueisha doesn't have the rights to add SSJ4 to the manga, it is Toei's property
I’m hoping for this show is that super Saiyan four is going to be like in a background where Goku just walking past it and they have to come back to that area to find the way to go to the next level
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but nobody in Daima is a kid again. Just google it and they’ve already explained tons of times that they aren’t kids and just mini versions of themselves. Why do you think Roshi is still bald. If he went young he’d have a head full of hair. Even their descriptions are mini Goku, mini Vegeta, mini piccolo. No kids
Theyre chibi basicaly
That's even stupider
Goten and Trunks have clearly been de-aged. Roshi states he's always been bald, and the only time we see him with hair is in a filler episode of the original dragon ball which isn't canon to daima. Lastly, roshi would have his beard if his body were just "made smaller than usual." It's obvious he lost that beard because his body had be de-aged to a state before puberty.
Our man, akira toriyama. This was his last project, from what I heard toriyama had a huge hand in this. So you should be excited for it. But to each there own i guess
found my dream youtuber, dragon ball and super nice person. NEW SUB!
8:26 that ssj4 goku that's in midget/kid form is the form,
I have been waiting on since I saw the first appearance of ssj4
I hope they do something like it that is at least similar design to the ssj4 transformation
It doesn't have to look exactly like ssj4 but a somewhat brand new evolve asaru ape/humanoid transformation
I could see it being a more mastered version of super saiyan 3 that is exclusive to daima because he can control the energy better in his smaller body. A sleek looking super saiyan 3 but his hair reverts back to black but stays longer and has a calmness similar to omen but more primal.
I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I've never been into the Super series (movies are great though). Daima is the first time in a long time that I've been interested in the series again. And I would not mind if they re-worked some concepts from GT to make them fit into the cannon. I love GT a lot, despite all of its flaws, and it will always sit as a standalone concept apart from all the other parts of the show. That's what makes it so special.
I think fans are too attached to one concept of what makes Dragon Ball what it is, but its such a massive show that they dont realize just how much variety there is across the entire series. So its hard to keep every single last minute detail aligned. Sometimes what makes the show fun isnt always what makes the most sense, and thats okay.
There is just quite a bit wrong with this . The narrative loses its greatness when u mess with the story elements cuz it was just perfect the way it was , golden ozaru needs to be the struggling stage before ssj4 , u don't spawn that form out of nothing and even if u copy paste the narrative golden ozaru is just the perfect form that should be the rageful stage before it , its the strongest saiyan form it should be combining all their branches . Golden ozaru combining saiyan nature and human nurture by the roots with earth starting the ozaru transformation for the first time and it being his central motivation to try to calm down , bullying baby as his nightmare comes to life before losing sight of him in blind rage and having to conquer it surpassing saiyans nature completely as well as power this time to win , with Pan's persistence to get through to him becoming the final push to trigger it in time , coming from yelling at Gohan in first ssj to smiling at Pan in first ssj4 it's all important in what makes the form the best of dragon ball and especially the most fitting for Goku other than just the design reminding of Son Wukong that he's inspired from . Golden ozaru is not something u remove from it at all , then Baby as the villain who put him through this test and just the overall story of that arc making an awesome play on love vs hate while giving ssj4 the perfect role in it . Let alone the fact that this is THE form for Goku it should be his final and not reintroduced with watered down narrative to become obsolete to the dbs forms which take place in the continuity of this series later .
Ssj4 can't be made greater than it is unless u are pretty much just reanimating the baby arc not messing with the story and plot and that bold artstyle just adding modern animation to what it already is .
I hope daima is a fine show , but just not have ssj4 cuz what we already know about it is making sure it'll be watered down if they bring it. Just let it stay the goat it is .
Also , daima trailer showing it in the montage of important db series starting with og manga already confirms that its canon only leaving out z movies and heroes , the non canon claims never had an official backing and now they've been disproved with that .
The change they made to Broly basically is the root of how SS4 worked in GT. Oozaru power.
i never really liked the whole "ssj4 overrides the wish from the dragon balls", it just really never made sense. if goku was and old man, wished for youth and became an ssj4, would he become old again? or if he had immortality, then by that logic ssj4 would remove the immortality. my theory is that ssj4 puts the user into their most prime fighting state. it is the ultimate saiyan power combining their ancient brutal nature (great ape), with their modern control and phyique. when goku, who is in a child's body with less control over his power (can't maintain ssj3 or use techniques like instant transmission since his body isn't disciplined enough), the ssj4 transformation puts his body into one of roughly 30 years of age, when a saiyan is at their absolute peak. even vegeta seems to age DOWN slightly, looking a bit more like he did in DBZ.
Well no it does because there’s first hand evidence of Shenrons magic not being effective on beings stronger than him. Hence why he couldn’t alter the body composition of the androids at the time of the cell saga and turn them human. Similar situation here where goku’s super saiyan 4 form needs an adult body and overrides the spell that’s keeping him a child for the duration of the transformation. We also know that goku and the rest of the Z cast keep their power levels close to zero when they aren’t fighting which could be reason to why he’s able to altered in the first place by shenrons wish.
@@TheRed02151 but base form goku is already way stronger than pretty much anyone else, even fighting on par with someone with the same strength as majin buu (between uub and rildo). i can understand if it would've blocked the initial wish, but once the wish is done, that's it. it's not like a curse, it's a permanent change
well that's not really a theory. the form can't bring out "the ultimate potential of a saiyan" (GT Perfect File description of SSJ4) if that saiyan is a wrinkly old man.
I hope so even if it is for an episode.
They should have took the great apes transformation even furthur it would be there second base form to strengthen their other sayion forms to help them find other transformations
The problem with that is that Goku never learned to control his ozaru form
My ss4 fans ❤
if it happend I really want to see the redesign of ssj4
GOLD SSJ6🎉🎉🎉😮😮😮😊😊😊😁😁😁👍👍👍
To be fair, it never did make sense that Goku was made into a kid in GT, because Pilaf wished for him to become small, but he didnt become small, he became a child. So if Daima says theyre "chibi" but they appear as children, that could be a red herring of sorts
I believe it
I still believe that the old theory if broly didn’t have his tail removed back in super broly movie he might have went ssj4 in his fight with goku and vegeta and remember broly ssj1 overpowered those two when there where in blue so broly ssj4 would definitely be overkill. So I wouldn’t say ssj4 is weaker but evenly match or close. Plus having more power doesn’t always mean you win
I really hope SS4 becomes a canon form
Yo bro u saw sparking zero leaks?
@@ABoredGod yeah man I’m hype
Daima is Super for GT.
ah yes broly ss4 with love and compassion, that fist really changed him
I don’t like it to much because he’d have to be a different character (not by too much) while in SSJ4.
I’ll watch because I’m a fan but the fact it takes place shortly after the Majin Buu saga doesn’t excite me. Soooo much has happened since then.
There's so many braindead knuckledraggers in the comments who didn't watch the video or even try to make sense of your logic. This idea you have for re-contextualizing and reworking ssj4 is fantastic.
There's a lot they can work with in Daima, and I very much like the concept of only being able to use such a form in the demon realm, reminds me of how Goku was only able to unlock ssj3 in other world without having the limitations he did on Earth, and how it ultimately functioned better in other world because of that.
@@sebastianl2764 thank you
I’m seriously hoping ssj4 is in Daima. I’ll be okay if it’s redesigned slightly. It’s the best design of all time.
I love your theory of the Super Saiyan 4 a new back story but could it have the Super Saiyan 4 hair but no fur on the body with Ikari eyes like Broly had
They had already mentioned this is between super and Z so if SSJ4 is in Daima, why didn’t they use it in Super?
Is it love or control that unlocks ssj4?
Do you guys think how long can we finally get the end of z in super then go pass the end of z😅
I wouldnt like to see more transformations and ssj4 aswell. They supposed to be fighters, not some magical fairies. I would like to see something like Goku learning how to get rid of all transformations and achieving the strenght of ssj3 in his base to become sort of calm martial art master. In that sense I would like Daima to retcon ultra instinct and get rid of Super series
Super sayian 4 is the best Transformation I'm not hateing on super but it never stuck to me as GT did I feel dragon ball & dragon ball z Dragon ball GT was the best ending of the The series
I was hopeing to get more of GT with goku Jr & vegeta Jr and see a hole new cast of Z fighters and villians we but we never got that don't get me wrong there were stuff I liket of super but there were I noticed about goku and vegeta there not the same charaecters we new from dragon ball z because you can see it in goku you don't see being a tuff guy anymore you see as man child and dose not say his say his most fameus lines leave now or leave me no choice to but to fight it's like we're is that and his super dragon fist attack his ability to read mines in GT vegeta actualy cared about goku and his family he became more wise still kept his cocky adatude that's why I love GT vegeta more then supers vegeta.
I wouldn't get my hopes up considering this takes place before Battle of Gods but... MAN IT WOULD BE SO AWESOME 🔥🔥🔥🔥🐒🌍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
They state the fact that the great apes are the sayions strongest form right so what if goku took a trip into the past and met Akuma the first sayion god and he train goku and vegeta for and upscaling event that would take place in their future after he sends them back from being children to rewrite an error in the dbz timeline
Aparantly Brolys green transformation called Icori is pretty much the power of the great ape but in human form. Soooooo essentially wouldn’t that be considered ssj4 since Goku had to go greate ape then golden then revert to his human form while holding on to that golden great ape power? Essentially isn’t Broly ssj 4? I mean this makes sense rite? Since everyone has there own path they are following like Goku with UI, Vegita with UE, Gohan with Beast, and Piccolo with Orange, why not give Broly the most Primal form like Ssj4. It’ll be a cool way to show his control over his primal power too. ❤
Magical saiyan =daima = new magic form lol
I don't think super Saiyan 4 will be possible on dragon ball daima
Well daima is before battle of gods, and if Daima is canon then Goku would need to lose his tail somehow before Daima ends.
Ssj4 doesn't come from love and compassion 😂😂😂 but whatever
goku and vegeta didnt become a ssj4 until that point but sure
ssj4 saved gt and it can save daima too
So it’s this still cannon and mean daima
What about a form past ss3 but not quite 4 more like a new form 3
Networks obsession with children is starting to really bother me...
Dont forget sjj4 has similar mui technique that if he gets attacked by a attack that same wont work again and he can close his eyes and dodge attacks like mui but goku ssj4 lost to omega bec it took most of hos stamina 😢
sj4 isn't cannon in GT but it will be cannon in Daima if they are going to put that form in the series
I rather them get a temporary buff to the ssj form which only appears in daima instead of making ssj4 (cuz making ssj4 in daima wud be stupid imo)
So something like universal blue in heroes concept.
Since they in the demon realm, have demon energy merge with ssj or somethin
Goku and the gang can’t use their god powers. Goku then learns to use super Saiyan four. He is unable to regain his power to fight the final boss one last time. Fuses God Power into super Saiyan four. If this movie is cannon, they’ll have to change it from Dragon Ball heroes. I’ve seen leaked pictures of a golden super Saiyan, four with the cloud like ring around him representing almost like a godly form. Kind of like what one piece did yo luffy’s gear 5. combining it maybe with magic too? I do know in the league picture or fanart, Goku ‘s staff returns.
SSK4 will probably not happen...at least by name. Maybe Super Saiyan Daima?
Look broly became cannon with dragon Ball super broly. Because people love the character so much the creator of dragon Ball canonized the character.
Even gogeta was not canon until that movie. So it begs to differ that what's going to happen is Goku and Vegeta get turned into kids. There you go
So much reach
so much hate
@@StarWarsShortss literally none of
SSJ4 should have been the goal look considering they are Ozaru's driven beings. I know in art having to color in all that would be annoying. Technology has come far. These programs now doe's all that for you even the tails would be auto added if they wanted. I personally dislike the blue version especially after we got red. Red had such a short life and I feel that red could have transitioned into SSJ4 and making the monkey look their strongest form and new base. Sun Wukong 4realz lol
i think what should happen is goku should get mind control by a demon and throughout the course of the series his tail slowly coming back thenn him turning into an ozaru and breaking free of the mind control through the power of love a better excuse or ssj4 not being used as much is it will overtime make gokumore and more evil due to the demon powers also vegeta should not have ssj 3 he should get a special form for himself
It wouldnt make sense if he did. 1. Ss4 was a dragonball gt thing, and gt isnt canon. And 2, daima takes place after buus defeat but before super, so if they has ssj4 in daima, wouldnt they at least mention it in super when he primarily fights beerus or frieza?
We got a different version of Broly. I can see ssj4 gettin a redo. Or gt gettin a redo. As far as it not bein brought up. Maybe no one ever got past ssj before them.
SS4 WILL NOT HAPPEN IN DAIMA.!! SMH, JUST LET IT GO ALREADY.! YEA SO THIRSTY FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Dreamers can’t be dreamers 🤷.
But gotta have so type of transformation so people only go what with they know
(This isn't related to the video, just saying my opinion)
Although not canon, Super Saiyan 4 is on par with Incomplete/Base Super Saiyan Blue (as shown in Super Dragon Ball Heroes). They could perhaps use that as a base for how strong the form is (for you powerscalers), and if we got a combination of SSB and SS4, then *that* would probably be on Beerus' level, although the form would only work if Goku was dead, due to the sheer power of said form.
im pretty sure the ssj4 thats on par with ssjb in dbh is the normal one isnt it? i remember theres a limit breaker or smth like that which is like the ultra state for the ssj4 (i havent watched heroes in a long time so maybe im confusing stuff)
@@AniRegevaccording to heroes,
SSJ4 = SSB
LBSSJ4 = UI -sign-
I am saying SSJ4 is not going to happen in daima. Because it's a story between Z and super and it's a canon story. So yes there would be no SSJ4
Maybe he'll get SS devil? Lol
Chibi goku actually
Its after buu and before super. Kkt likely
GUYS IN REAL NO FORM TILL NOW CAN DEFEAT ULTRA INSTINCT AS IN DBH GOKU XENO FOUGHT GOKU FROM SUPER AND BY USING JUST UI GOKU DEFEATED GOKU SSJ4 👍
Super Saiyan great ape is grade grade 8 super sayian ?
Goku at the cell tournament is grade 4,,Gohan grade 5. Majin vegeta grade 6. And gotanks/goku grade 7.
I just wanted to put this down.
Nope, because daima also happens before the end on Z
I didn’t watch the vid yet but I know it’ll be outstanding!!
If they do ssj4 then they are basically tossing out Super. Daima is too similar to DBGT, im enjoying it, but ill be lying if i say its not a let down. This whole turned into kids again by some tiny guy using dragonballs has already been done. Id rather see super progress i to the other arcs that are after the tournament of power. If they introduce any new transformation other than bug fusion, then they mess up the continuity of the story. This is why productions should reconsider jumping around the timeline of their IP. Continuity used to actually be important, its what led to a continuing story to begin with.
Hell man I’m a huge fan : can you please make a scaling video please ?
@@ibrahimoday-r5c 👍
@@MajinBird thank you very much
Wasn’t ssj4 possible because goku grew his tail back ??
Daima is cool and all but it'd be a waste to bring back ssj4 without it being GT with new animation , u could change some stuff here and there but i don't want anything with ssj4 messed with , from the way gets the tail back to the awesome execution when he gets the form the whole sequence since earth starting the ozaru transformation for the first time while he's frustrated for not being able to protect earth , bullying Baby as his nightmare comes to life once again then losing sight of him in blind rage then earth becoming his central motivation to calm down again , struggling to do it and getting angry thumping his chest looking at earth almost looking like a child complaining to his parent , then Pan's persistence to get through to him despite him attacking her and pushing her away becoming the final push to hold his hands up towards earth as if directly gaining strength from it and slowly take the humanoid form ssj4 in a peak scene screaming at the top of his lungs while chain like electrocity forms around him signifying the tamimg of a beast and earth goes red in the background . The journey from yelling at Gohan when he first turned ssj to just smiling at Pan when he first turned ssj4 was amazing and perfect. Baby arc's story in general with Ssj4 being first introduced to be the exclusive counter against Baby is already gold , i'd only take the fights being made longer but no need to touch the plot and story itself or change the bold artstyle .
U change so much elements like this and timeline and the peak story gets lost like isn't this before end of z too so how little is Pan gonna be ? And this is also supposed to be canon to super so ssj4 is just gonna be brought back to be one of the forms that became obsolete ? Goku doesn't get done better than Ssj4 before i even mention he was inspired from Son Wukong in the first place which makes it being his final form even more fitting after the narrative was already enough for that . Daima being canon to super and taking place before already makes this a no no .
3:14 And this is more of what i'm talking about , the writing is perfect it shouldn't be be changed . U don't just spawn ssj4 out of nowhere without making golden great ape for it to be the combination and clash of saiyan nature and human nurture , before finally making humanity win with ssj4 and solidifying Goku as the saiyan with a human heart , the poster boy of proving more than he was born to be , this time completely surpassing saiyan nature as well as power conquering their strongest rage , it's only even more fitting after Golden ozaru was already shown when Vegeta talked of ssj and ssj3 showing a glimpse of ozaru implying its going towards that in the anime , but with or without that part the narrative loses some of its greatness when u remove golden ozaru. Even if u were to say we're gonna copy paste the narrative but just make the rageful stage look different , it still isn't right cuz Golden ozaru fits right in that's just perfectly what should be that struggling stage before ssj4 , ssj4 is the strongest saiyan form it only makes sense u combine all their transformation branches to get it .
If important stuff is gonna get compromised there's no point of making it in daima.
Nice vid , the theories are interesting , i'm hoping daima is a fine show , but just not have ssj4 cuz what we know about daima already stops the form from being as good as it is .
Also one thing , daima trailer showing GT only confirms it is canon . The non canon claims online never had an official backing and now they're simply proven wrong when GT is shown in the montage of important db series starting with og db in daima trailer , only leaving out z movies and heroes .
okay! so its literally a rehashed GT because people refuse to watch the original.
Im grateful that this is just a theory's... cuz the idea itself is kinda ass--- (yeah, ssj4 fans, fight me)
I won't , Ssj4 is clear cut the goat and best form this franchise made i don't want it to be watered down by messing with the perfect story elements of baby arc and the themes love vs hate at all let alone changing it as much as its already bound to be by what we know about daima , to make it just another one of the forms that became obsolete among the dbs ones . It has the best narrative and perfect to be Goku's final form , i don't want a downgraded version . I too am grateful this is just a theory an ssjb treatment of ssj4 would be horrible . Only way they could make it better is add modern animation to what it already is .
Meh I don't really think we are gonna see ssj4 and even then if its super limited there is no point in the form for the future.
Ssj5?
I think goku get ikari form
Probably. Akira didn't like SSJ4
sorry to burst your bubble but SSJ4 will not be in daima it takes place before DBS
That if this anime is Canon to super but I think this anime is set in a different time-line
im pretty sure it was stated to be between battle of god and majin buu in the cannon timeline
@AniRegev yeah but things can changed over time.
Sad part, Toriyama liked GT.
Clearly, as he wrote Daima.
Yet, fans of any franchise are too damn hateful.
If the man himself like GT, why can't people just sit back and think, you know what, lemme see what Toriyama saw.
I like ssj4 I like sorry to say this o% chsnce form return to dragon ball daima I alway tired this form gonna change kr not I like ssj4 I like design ssj4 I sorry day this form is not gonna to return to drsgon ball daima
Super saiyan 4 way stronger than blue and god Don't know why You had to make That Arguable statement. Unless you're trying to create another debate again good.
@@2musicSoundtrackfandom579 what’s your basis for that?
SSJ4 sucks and was never properly used in all of GT.
This is why dragonball sucks now - ss4 is way more iconic than fucking super saiyan god or ss blue (these were way fucking lazy transformations) tying ss4 back to the power of the ape form is peak saiyan lore - going to god status gives you no where else to go it’ll just get more ridiculous as it continues
True , but daima is not the way to go about it . U can only make it better than it is by adding modern animation , its introduction should be exactly as it is within Baby arc with story being as it is , u could make the fights but not mess with the plot and story itself .
It's not only gonna get a watered down narrative trynna fit it in a different story than baby arc against a different villain , but it'll also be obsolete as this series takes place in dbs continuity before it .