It's Time for the Listening Church to Speak
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
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Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
I recently read an account from someone who recalled, in an almost boastful way, how when a friend came to them, in distress with a problem, instead of offering some ideas that would have helped the person in distress, they restrained themselves from speaking in favour of merely listening.
And he was encouraged in this approach by the belief that this is what a good Catholic should do - to restrain ourselves from sharing our thoughts while someone else tells us about their problems. Instead, we are to be a listening people and a listening Church.
And this is a theme that seems to be something of a slogan in the Church today. We hear about the synodal way and about our commitment to listening instead at the expense of speaking.
But in the example of my friend, what if the person that was appealing to them was looking for help or a solution to their problem? Yes, it’s a fine thing to listen but listening is a futile thing unless it is paired with understanding. And why bother understanding a problem if it isn’t to try to seek a solution?
For example, what would you think of a medical doctor who, every time someone came to them with a medical problem, they didn’t offer a reply, they just listened to you tell them your problem and then they billed you and sent you on your way?
What if they knew what the antidote to your problem was, but instead of giving it to you, they were compelled by this same kind of sentiment - that it is better to listen then it is to offer your own thoughts on a given problem?
Well, I would think that such a doctor is showing contempt for their patients. To know how to help someone as a result of a knowledge that you possess, and then to refuse to help them cannot be the result of some moral good. It would have to be the result of, at best, a good intention that is actually harmful, or just a hatred and contempt for those who you would allow to suffer unnecessarily.
Now that’s well and good when we’re talking about practitioners of physical healthcare, but what about those who are practitioners of spiritual healthcare? Well if the Church is anything, it must be that, right? The Church is a curator of a divine revelation that tells us who God is, who we are in relation to him, and how God has proposed a way for us to live in communion with him who is our source of life and happiness.
God has revealed this to humanity and then charged a group of people with ensuring that that very message gets proclaimed for the benefit of humanity and is preserved from distortion. But he also added a warning which is that many people would hate the Church for being that messenger.
That is the Church’s mission, to proclaim that message as a messenger and to be unafraid of the consequences. One thing Jesus did not say is to go out and listen to the perspectives of other people, other groups, other cultures, and see what you can learn from them so that your message will be less abrasive to them.
No, he said, go and proclaim it and be prepared for the animosity and hostility of the world when you do. He said, go and be disagreeable to the world with the understanding that for those people of good will who will benefit from the message, it is worth upsetting and being hated by the rest who do not accept the message.
But today we find ourselves in a Church with significant pockets that are persuaded by an opposing “wisdom”. One that says, we need to listen to others in order to be more agreeable to them and we should refrain from speaking or proselytizing.
Podcast Version: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/
I recently attended the 2021-2023 listening/synod in Staten Island, NY. We were seated in groups of ten, at each table were people from their respective parish. One mediator per table taking notes and a couple moderating the event. To tell the entire story of the session would take too long, but not one person could agree on any issue. At my table, no one knew the Vatican funded the Elton John movie to the tune of $500,000 or 4 billion in abuse settlements were paid out or these bishops are living “la vita dolce”. On the parish collection. .Their main interest was that 10 or 20 parishes could save money by printing only one bulletin. They are counting on our ignorance and I can assure you those final documents are already drafted! And as far as speaking out, the Pope spoke out loud and clear when he gave the Holy Eucharist to Nancy Pelosi…………
True. There's abuse in the highest positions of the Church that relies on the ignorance of its flock in order for modernists to push through.
Amen to your whole post.
The Elton John movie disturbed me. This is terrible. God’s Word says nothing about a “pope”, the priesthood ended once Jesus died and was resurrected (the huge veil was torn), etc etc. Ugh. Christ says you must be born again. Put your trust in Him! Not in any sinner in need of a Savior or in any man made institution. But people still want the Messiah to be a powerful warrior who gets rid of the current “Roman”.
@@artstudiogirl784 I don’t agree with an errant pope but Jesus did establish his church on Peter “the rock”. Unfortunately, this era we’re going through now was also written about almost 2000 years ago. So it is written, so it shall be done!
The Pope didn't give communion to Pelosi. She received from a priest who didn't know who she was.
Yes! I'm I'm a seminary right now and EVERYTHING is listen listen listen. "They just want to be heard, don't try to solve their problems."
It's maddening
Phil, I think this is the great mistake: there is no discernment between people voicing their fears and difficulties (which need guidance and solutions) and people playing the game "ain't it awful" and "look at how victimized I am". That latter group DOES just want to be heard and is very resistant to any attempts to solve the problems - but we should not, in the process of trying to stymie their game, refuse to those who have reached out for help!
Phil, firstly thank you for your vocation. Second, be quiet, agreeable, and disciplined. The current power brokers in the Church are spooked by the number of young priests and seminarians who do not share their world view. They are actively seeking to snuff you out. So again, be disciplined in your insurgency. Don't stick your neck out and let them see you. Just get along, don't call attention to yourself, and wait. They're all old, they're all dying, and they've few ideological successors. Just wait, do what you can faithfully and quietly, and gain power and position. Once you have hit, you will be able to right the wrongs, but you must take the power first.
@@flyoptimum Hi, Beau.
Thanks for your reply. I sympathize with the sentiment. What you're proposing is the virtue of prudence which is as clever as serpents while simultaneously being as innocent as doves.
The problem which calls for such an elevated degree of prudence is that silence itself can actually compromise innocence. There are many stories of many people in many walks of life, and most notably priests, who adopted exactly this strategy, only to discover many decades later that there are two significant dangers with the program of flying under the radar.
The first is that there is no such thing as a secure position. Everyone at every stage and level of this vocation is not only still vulnerable, but is more vulnerable than at every previous stage and level, so there will never come a point at which it is safe to speak.
The second danger is the danger to the soul. If you train yourself to refuse to exercise the prophetic ministry which is integral, not only to the priesthood, but to baptismal regeneration, you will be betraying the vocation you're seeking to protect.
So, yes, there is definitely a place for the practice of the several virtues, including prudence, in the vocation to priestly ministry, but it must not be allowed to interfere with other virtues, including fortitude. If this results in expulsion from seminary or being returned to the lay state, this innocent suffering can participate in the redemption of the passion.
Hi, Phil.
Thanks for your comment, and for your willingness to test your vocation. It might help you to consider that there is place and need for each of: simply allowing someone to unburden himself or recognize that he is able to identify his own solutions; and in virtue of your formation and grace of state of providing the education, encouragement, and admonition for him to become able more perfectly to fulfill his vocation.
Hi Phil I have great respect for you any man that wants to be a priest in this day and age must be truly close to God thank you.i will pray for you to be courageous in these days and all the great priest's that Stan up for the truth i think people care more about hurting people's feelings rather than telling the truth and saving their soul.i think about St padro pio and how angry (righteous anger)and frustrated he would get and even kick people out of the confessional when they wouldn't confess all there sins .
"Error has no rights." (Error non habet ius.) A principle from classic Catholic moral theology.
Amen.
@@theologyofthebody8383 well, I'm always one willing to learn a new Latin maxim.
@@theologyofthebody8383 I think the key distinction is that the people proclaiming error very much do have rights, and not only that but inherent human dignity. We can’t steamroll over them, but we can’t allow Truth to be perverted either. Charity (true charity that doesn’t focus solely on ideology, that seeks truth without compromise and love without condition) is key and is prime in our mission.
Christ is King
Christ the King
wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_the_King
I don't understand why some Catholics think this way, even priests. The Church doesn't just listen, it teaches and speaks with authority. I find it so baffling that despite the Church's endless wisdom; with its vast and rich history all right there for everyone to learn, some people still choose to be this ignorant. I'm not even Catholic (at least not yet), yet I can't get enough of Church history, theology, and philosophy. It's actually incredible how many problems the Church has solved and how many solutions they have given, yet people still want to act like we need to reinvent the wheel. Jesus listened to others, but He also spoke with authority. Catholics should be able to speak with education and intuitive conviction on so many topics, especially ones they are familiar with. Don't just listen, educate yourself and speak!
Yes! We speak the truth in love to help folks encounter the One Who is Love!
I think a lot of folks pushing the “only listening” approach have a false dichotomy in mind: that if we stop charitable listening, we will immediately turn to forceful rhetoric and/or we won’t be restrained from dumping the entirety of the truth on someone in one sitting.
If we genuinely “speak the truth in love” this means to confess the truth to the degree that it will benefit the other person. We sow seeds and pray the Holy Spirit makes them grow.
We typically cannot remain purely silent, but there must be prudent discernment. Some folks are thirsty to hear the Gospel. Some would prefer to take a small step or two or just consider a step. The Holy Spirit can help us discern what to say. But it’s a false dichotomy if our choices appear to be listening or proselytizing. Those aren’t our choices! :)
And yes, there are indeed times when we should refrain from speaking altogether. But these moments should not be our goal, but a loving concession that all we can do at a time of crisis is be there for a friend closed to listening at all, and pray for another conversation.
“People are every bit dominated by shame and guilt today as they were in more traditional times, but they don’t have the words for it anymore. Without the words to label their disease it’s harder for people to find the cure of total forgiveness offered by God.” -Jordan Peterson God and Christianity
You hit the nail right on the head Brian. Fear is the devil’s collaborator.
''nothing is more cold than a christian who doesn't care of the salvation of souls'' St. John Chrisostom.
John Chrysostom
wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom
This is right on target! Excellent. Especially in divided families where no one wants to rock the boat.
A huge problem. Thank you!
Thank you
Keep up the good work, Brian. Bless you and your beautiful family.
Clear, coherent, fantastic!
Great show.
I have been watching videos of a man called Dorre Love, a TH-cam street preacher, and we can only hope and pray that we ever have a catholic like this man.
AGAIN, BRILLIANT ,BRIAN
im a muslim and i like your vids, i started to realize that we fighting for same thing…
We absolutely do and we should be more united against the indoctrination that the evil is imposing on our children. God bless.
I think it was Scott Hahn who said that but can’t say for sure
Bravo! Let’s start here, at the root. There is no salvation outside the Church. Thank you for specifying the effects of modernism unchallenged in relation to our children. Bravo Brian! God bless.
No. Let us start with our children. Why do you keep putting your children in danger of sexual abuse at the hands of these proven perverts?
What is "The Church" outside which there is no salvation?
@@physiocrat7143 it is certainly not those who know truth but disobey. The Church is the faith, be it tradition, be it the Holy Spirit. It is the obedient, I say the obedient, to the unchanging truths given by Christ. Be it His words recorded along with the private revelations of your choice. I think the Church, now, is comprised of the people who practice the faith, recognize the infiltration, and refuse to be misled by that infiltration. Go to the Latin Mass exclusively. Be reverent, be faithful, above all be obedient. Stay in the state of grace. Do not obey the infiltration.
@@challengable
There are a couple of dozen other perfectly worthy liturgies within the churches in communion with Rome, and another 14 patriarchates with valid sacraments which confess the same faith including the Real Presence. Then there are the non-Chalcedonians, who appear to have broken off due to a misunderstanding of translations.
For a lot of people, these other churches are more physically accessible than churches offering the Tridentine Mass. I learned only yesterday that it has been legitimately celebrated in Church Slavonic!
@@physiocrat7143 sorry, I stay with His Church alone. The Latin Mass is getting all the attention of the modernists. It must be the truth in our day as it has always been. If they hate it, it must be the answer to the current confusion
Very good.
Excellent and timely considering we’re in the age of synods.
Fantastic sharing, Brother! On point!
Powerful and convicting words
Yes. That’s all I have to say after listening.
Excellent video, Brian! We certainly ought to have drawn that line years ago before a generation was indoctrinated into error. Better late than never! This is why I homeschooled my daughters from preschool through high school. I loved them too much to expose them to the toxicity of public - and even Catholic - school.
I really want to homeschool, but my current situation doesn’t allow me to do so. Do you have any suggestions for moms like me, who disagree with the indoctrination and want to raise true Catholic children, but cannot afford to homeschool? I sincerely appreciate any suggestion. God bless.
I am very happy for your children, you did an amazing job protecting them.
Have you watched Beckett Cook? He became a Christian convert and has his own TH-cam channel. Even though he is Not Catholic he left the LGBT community and is preaching the gospel.
Thank you! Well said.
I normally love what you share, but I think that this talk simplifies the reasons behind why we listen a little too much. It doesn’t come from fear for me. From experience, many people push back further if I just come in with evangelical rhetoric to help when help is not what they’re seeking. If I’m going to a doctor, I’m seeking a solution and an answer. However, if I’m just needing someone to listen to me, and they start firing solutions at me I become annoyed and irritated because that’s not what I’m seeking. I think it’s important to listen, take time to build trust and understanding, and then spiritually guide. This can take a long time or no time at all, but everyone is on their own journey, and I think it’s imperative that we don’t just preach at others, but lead in Jesus and in love by example, understanding, and an open heart.
Of course we must listen in order to build a relationship and speak the gospel in terms the person might receive when they appear ready to receive, but we have a Pope and several bishops who say we must never proselytize, but to simply live according to the gospel and let the people who need the gospel do their own research. We’re not to lead them to Jesus or even mention Jesus unless they specifically ask. They ignore Romans 10:14, “But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?”
God bless you, Brian. I love how ready you are to speak the truth as love. I am in this with you, brother (although on a much smaller scale. haha). God bless!
Amen!!!
Competent to Counsel by Jay Adams, while it has its problems, is a GREAT read on this subject and the nature of the legitimate tension between secularized psychology and pastoral care.
“KNOW THAT THEY HATED ME FIRST”. Yep, that’s what He said.
Yes! This video 💯 🙏👏
Well first we need to listen carefully. After that we need to put in his shoes, taking into account all the circumstances ( not easy),and finally give an honest and humble point of view about the possible solution.
Hi, Albert.
Thanks for your comment. It highlights the need for humility in allowing for further considerations than the dialogue partner has considered, and that can definitely affect the appropriate response. It remains that there is a robust body of revealed doctrine on the content of the doctrine of the faith, both as it relates to matters of faith and as it relates to matters of morals, so there will be contexts in which the reply must simply be something to the effect of, "This is what you must do, failing which you incur still greater guilt and harm and suffering for yourself and others than is already the case."
I took an excellent Existentialism class at Marymount in Arlington VA decades ago.
A good Catholic should restrain themselves. Do not confront evil. However, there is a time to speak the truth.
You might have heard it from Trent Horn, but it’s the atheist Penn Jillette who asked, “How much do you have to hate someone to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?” The original 2008 post from his own channel is missing from TH-cam, but lots of people have the clip embedded within their own videos.
Regarding that quote- I’m pretty sure you are talking about Penn Jillette, from Penn and Teller, who is an atheist, and made that quote in a video about a man who gave home a Bible- I’ve always said,” Jillette explained, “I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe there is a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward. How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate someone to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?”
I’d link the vid, but we know how YT hates all links!
We are to first love God and then love people. If you love God you love his Word. You are guided by God’s Word. I agree it is hateful not to share God’s Word.
Exactly 👏👏👏
Excellent. Thanks and may you, with your family be blessed for this work you do.
This whole video assumes the men in the modern church have the traditional goal of spreading the gospel and converting the world. At this point I think this is obviously not the case.
Your right....the proud admission at the Amazonian Council that certain diocese haven't baptised anyone in 30 years....and the scandal of the Abu Dhabi document saying God wills other religions tell us clearly that the Lords instruction at the great commission to go and make disciples of all nations has been rejected by Rome starting at Assisi 30 years ago
Tolerance is NOT a Christian virtue.
In a hundred years people will say , "And Saint Brian said this".
I believe it needs to listen a little longer so that it can give a sound answer.
All Truth !!!!
God told the Prophet Ezekiel it is better to tell the sinner the truth, if you don't if he dies his sins are on you but if you tell him and he continues to sin, then you save your life.
Ezekiel
wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel
Thanks Brian. Love listening to you.
There is a time to listen and a time to speak. The problem when it comes to the time to speak especially to fellow good Catholic friends is that we get accused for being tactless and brutal when we mean good will.
The ones who are most willing to hear are the non Christians who are looking for something more in life
Many of you reading this from a Western country will not understand this statement because i stay in the Far East
“but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:”
Ephesians 4:15 KJV
I totally agree with you. I was searching for someone like you, whom I consider am authority, to speak up about the indoctrination that is happening in Catholic schools. I am deeply disappointed by our Permissive Catholic school board. God save us.
Psychologist here.
While I agree that there is an absolute, eternal truth, the relativism which we hate in the social sphere has an instrumental purpose in a therapeutic setting. Though ultimate truths sooner or later result in true healing of the soul and mind, not all those who convey it obtain the same effect through their speech.
A priest who uses his position so as to influence his faithful in a self serving way, though he might be speaking the truth, could also be causing harm in the process. The truth which one speaks can be spoken in a better way and for a better purpose.
With that said, I do agree that sometimes psychotherapy can become too relativistic. For better or for worse, however, this is necessary for many for their treatment, because if you have things which you cannot explore, ideals that you can't question, then there will be corners of your self that will remain covered to you. And it is from these blind spots that compulsions, addictions -- and demons, if you will -- attack us. So this lifting of principles during therapy *can* be therapeutic, and in many cases it is necessary.
This does not necessarily mean that one should adopt a morally relativistic stance, however. But sometimes a client's illness can come about due to an excessive fixation on moral matters. In that case you can even help that patient become *more* moral by allowing him to see why it is that he is so unbending in his morality. In some cases this is not due to virtue, but to compulsion and/or pride. Saint John of the Ladder warns us against excessive asceticism, as it can foster vainglory in us. It could very well be the same case when not talking about asceticism, but responsibility, morality and other virtues.
This brings us to why a psychologist (and sometimes a preacher) should listen, and not necessarily speak. I do agree that priests are moral shepherds, and they should be demanding of their faithful. This is not the case with the psychologist, as there is a fine line that separates treatment and meddling with the other person's life.
You see, during college I used to have this same feeling of indignation: that we should intervene, the we should tell them what to do. But there is a problem with this approach. Why are you intervening? Is it out of love or out of pride? Pride will often say that it is out of love, so it takes a great deal of sincerity, self knowledge and ataraxia to be able to say with certainty that this is indeed the case.
Sometimes the therapist will tell the patient what to do because he wants to reap his patient's achievements. "He achieved this because of my words, because of my intervention". Sometimes the patient can indeed achieve by influence of your words, but a better therapist works differently: as if through socratic induction, the client gets to the conclusion without being told it explicitly. And sometimes that's the only possible way. Most of the times this is the best one.
This preserves the client's self respect and, more importantly, does not make him dependent on the therapist. We want our patients to outgrow us, and while doing the alternative could fill our pockets, it will not serve our clients.
And last, but not least, remember that the apostles turned out to be saints. For a Saint to herald the good news is one thing; they won't have second motives in their speech and action. However, wretches like us can chop the Gospel in self-serving pieces and use it not for the Summum Bonum, but for exalting ourselves. Remember that the Lord told us to remove that which blinds us first before we can help open our brothers' eyes. Pride will always tell us that it is love.
This is not a matter of never intervening, never saying anything, but a matter of being conservative with one's intervention. Yes, the time will come in which we have to intervene, but we need to have wisdom so as to discern when. If done in the right time, there will be right effects.
Paulo, these are all very good points. My reading of Brian's argument (from all his videos) is not that we should heavy-handedly intervene in people's problems. You are right to say that there is grave danger in that. As local pastors, the priests and bishops should exercise discretion in how they caution and advise local sinners. But when it comes to the Vatican and the upper hierarchy, we do need a much clearer proclamation of the Church's teachings than we have had for a long time. It is precisely the lack of this that makes people like Brian wield the stick. The people who should be doing so are not, and this troubles many Catholics. We can afford to become the flock again when our shepherds start behaving like shepherds.
Those who have been silently waiting for a "change", have to realise, that it's their turn now
💯 ✝
The Trads are speaking. The Novus Ordo is captured.
Thank you for speaking in favour of the truth, when not even our current pope and his gang dare do it. We’ve had bad popes before, the Church has survived. There are bad priests as well as good ones. But even a bad priest can deliver salvation to the faithful.
God knows best, and His Church is holy, even when she is in a state of confusion and Satan seems to have gained the upper hand.
3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 before listening, 🙂
No one has the right to go to Heaven. You have to work for it
The problem is that probably most of us aren't confident enough to be so bold about their faith 🙁 Sadly, I'm one of them 😢 We can only say what we _believe_ to be true, so we cannot say anything certain 😐
Anyone who is ashamed of there faith will be rejected by it.
@@darth3911 Not ashamed. But uncertain. How can you say to anyone with confidence that God exists and what He is? Have you seen Him?
@@damnedmadman I know because there’s overwhelming evidence that proves that Jesus lived on this earth.
As a wise man once said Jesus is one of the following lier a mad man or what he actually says he is.
People from the fields of medical science looked into whether he was or insane in his final moments, they concluded that he was sane from birth til death.
That leaves us with two options him being what he says he is or a lier. Fortunately we the bible From what the bible shows us enough of Christs character to know he was telling the truth.
As what Christ says (blessed are those who have not seen but yet still believe.) I may not have seen but I have heard and learnt enough history to know for certain he is real.
@@darth3911 I'm not denying His existence. But nobody can be 100% sure that Jesus was what people wrote about Him. We can only believe, unless someone had a revelation that cannot be explained as hallucinations. That's my problem. I can say I believe, not that I know.
lets draw the line.
As a father of four with kids in Catholic school in the US. I couldn't agree more.
Hebrews 13 v 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever ....... if we want to keep from error, we look to his word, not the wisdom of the world,
2 Thessalonians 2 v 15 15Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter
If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
The Church hierarchy are relying on their own wisdom and the wisdom of the world, and in some cases seem to be going against the word of God - WE NEED TO WAKE UP AND SPEAK OUT
Until there’s equal activism, culture and social movements from us there should be no compromise.
Well there’s a time to listen and a time to speak. It’s a little of both.
I would like to see a Church-wide three year cycle of obligatory catechetical sermons at Mass - based on the catechism plus outlines from the Holy See. When catechetical sermons were preached instead of homilies, the faith was better known and lived. (Not, of course, to deny the importance of opening the Scriptures to the faithful.) It would have to be desiigned to be integrated with the two "strong times" of the Liturgy. Maybe the cycle could end in a Holy Year of Renewed Faith.
big thumbs up Anthony. What I notice is that modernists do not even know the end point--- we are horrified but they just see safety.
Good, sound teaching. Thank you!
Love to see more freedom fighting priests!
I agree on that we shouldn’t allow ideologies that do not have any scientific evidence to contaminate our believes. We must be strong (which does not mean be intolerant).
On the other hands, we should also recognize that we do not have all the answers. And some cases have not simple solutions. That is why in some cases we should also refrain to tell others what we think they should do. Our mission is to announce the Gospel, not to be spiritual doctors: only God heals our souls. Some of us are called to be spiritual directors, but a good spiritual director is the one that does not tell the person what to do (except in some cases, and has the same answers for everyone, penitence, prayer and obedience). Even if for the spiritual director the solution is evident, he/she should not just instruct, but guide the person and respect the fact that Jesus is the master. Don’t trust spiritual directors that tell you what to do instead of helping you see the situation and do the discernment.
I am an Anglican - Church of England, as we say in England... I have no right to comment much here - but I've lived for 20 years in the USA and, now, in Mexico, with my RC wife have profound concern... I am saddened and even sickened by much of what I see today in the Church - both Churches - and in the streets - because I belong to a time gone by, probably so because I was educated at very old schools by old-fashioned traditional Christians in what now seems a country completely erased and replaced with what it once loathed... I hold my tongue a lot because, as I pray to the Almighty, I don't understand what's going on - and maybe I'm missing something - perhaps I have it all wrong ... I say this but then I doubt my doubts... The entire planet seems to have gone quite mad.. I feel naturally disgusted by so much of modernity - or is it post-modernity?
... Pelosi and this Pope - Elton John - the push for trans-sexual rights - gay marriage - gay pornography on the streets and in the classrooms - gay parents... It makes me want to vomit...
Then I remember something important - even if this not yet the End times - there are cycles and swings of the pendulum... This will be swept away by consummate ease if it is the will of the Divine at some point...
One does not hope for some lunatic reactionary swing - but just one that is profound enough all the same to clear out the rot completely...
God Bless you all - and may God have mercy on the souls of these enemies of humility and decency.
I was raised in a Roman Catholic home. 1953. What I remember, what I see today and what I study in history is that Catholics have always been quite passive. It's not a modern problem. In general it has always been - go to church on Sunday, confession on Saturday, and let the "Father" tell you what to do and even study the Word of God for you. In fact the authority of the Bishop and the Priest have an emasculating effect on Catholic men making them very passive. To witness the the full effect of what I'm talking about just cross the southern border of the US of A. All of Latin America has been Roman Catholic for more than 500 years. Been there. Seen it.
And think about this. The United States of America was founded, for the most part, by very brave Protestant men. Roman Catholic men never would have been able of such an undertaking. In fact it never would have occurred to them. And don't forget who defeated that monster Hitler. The Protestant nations.
Just sayin'.
I thank the Lord God Almighty for the Protestant Reformaron.
That's an interesting critique. The history of the Catholic Church is filled with both passive and aggressive people. But both can be examples of courage and masculinity. It takes a lot of courage to be a missionary to a native population that has already tortured and murdered all the previous missionaries. It also takes courage to conquer an evil empire. Why do you think all of Latin America is Catholic? Because Cortes took a few hundred men to the shores of Mexico, burned his own ships (their only escape route), and took down an empire that outnumbered them 1000 to 1. If we want to critique religions based on their courage, it seems that Protestants only go where Catholics have already been ;)
Thing is the protestant reformation failed, it’s goal was not to split off of the catholic church rather the goal was to change it.
That all said even though it failed those who followed the ideas of it had to some level achieved part of what God wanted, problem is modern protestantism is just as bad as the catholic church.
Seems that you haven't read much history of the catholic church.
If it wasn't for the catholic church. There wouldn't have been a Christian west at all.
And by now would have fallen to islam a 1000 years ago. There wouldn't be a Christian Latin America either.
The only reason there is Christian belief in any of the western world is because of the catholic church. The pro testants
( that's non catholic Christian if you didn't know) only come later to pilfer catholics to their Johnny come lately different gospels. Weak catholics become protestants strong protestants end up becoming catholic. Just read the church fathers. Heck even Luther believed in the real presence. As did Calvin.
Great videos, thanks. Have you seen the video produced by the Bishop of Windsor about synodality and listening? It has nothing to do about listening (or science) but everything to do about promoting the gay agenda (and destroying the Church). A lot of prelates (at the Vatican too) are making it clearer and clearer.
Which is the worse sin, consenting sex between adults or unconsenting sex between an adult and a child?
@@kevinkelly2162 It's not one or the other, either/or. It's both, both are grave sins. Period.
I didn't hear Trent Horn use that phrase in talking about evangelizing, but he may have been quoting or paraphrasing one of the guys of Penn and Teller. I'm not very familiar with that entertainment pair, and don't know which is which. I only know that they're atheists, and one talks but the other doesn't. The one who talks told a story on camera about being in Las Vegas when a man approached him to evangelize him. He said the man had such love in his eyes. Then he said Christians _should_ be proselytizing, and, "If you believe in everlasting life, how much do you have to hate someone not to share that with them? If I see you about to walk in front of a truck, but you don't believe it, at some point I *will* run and tackle you." The video used to be on TH-cam, I'm not sure if it still is. I first saw it around 2008 or thereabouts. Editing because I found a copy of that video -- th-cam.com/video/6md638smQd8/w-d-xo.html
Occasionally, Some of the things you say, rub me the wrong way. This is Not one of those times. Actions speak louder then words, we need to show the love, to show what it is to be a witness to that love. If only there was a way we could all clearly stand together, and show it. Maybe something as simple as introducing the Glory Be after national anthems or a pledges of allegiance.
No servant is greater than the Master; if they persecute Me, they will persecute you.
Trent may have said that but the first person I heard to say this was Atheist Penn Gillette.
I whole heartedly agree with your fundamental premise, however, do take into account the caveat when it comes to spiritual direction in the cases for the need of good counsel and life advice, a person's friend maybe ill equipped to advise sufficiently on the person's needs for lack of insight and silence might be the best. Even if you have the good news they need to hear it may not be prudent to share it, as the person may be well aware of their sin but are obstinate in their belief to remain in it. There is a time and place to fight.
E.g: Mature Coworker is in a gay marriage, they know you are Catholic, they ALREADY know what the religious think about gay marriage you do not need to inform them as there is a "reason" why they are vocal about it after all. Unless that person comes to you for counsel about it or, asks you specifically, you are under no obligation to counsel them as they have prior understanding and complicit knowledge, and it would put you in a precarious position at work, since more often than not these people are vicious and unreasonable and lack tolerance for other perspectives that disagree with their choices.
There is a time and a place for everything, and it might not always be cowardice (a lot of the times that may be the case) but sometimes it is prudential judgement. You can usually tell if someone is open to receiving pearls and you don't want to cast them before swine, lest they turn and tear you to pieces.
Do you think is there a way for religion and science to come together and examine each others benefits and faults?
Science is a tool. Science is a daughter of Religion, specifically Catholicism.
Only if you could point out the benefits of religion. Science can point to a number of things like medecine. Religion has taught us nothing.
Do you know the history of science and who were its patrons, how many learned religious laid the groundwork for the science of today ?, start with Gregor Mendel.
The Catholic Church has always supported and promoted scientific research.
What about what Jesus said in Mark 16:15, “Go into all the world and listen to all creation?”
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to the whole creation.
Mark 16:15
And He said to them: Go ye into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15
Joseph Bell: Honestly, there's nothing said about listening to all creation.
i have a question. Is the holy Catholic church different then the Catholic church
No, they are the same.🙂🙏
There is one true Church.
The Catholic Church.
Established by Our Lord Jesus Christ.
One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.
Every other organization called "church" is a man-made institution.
When I go talk to a priest I want advise
While its clear where this is coming from with how crazy the world has been, I think there has to be sharp wisdom with this approach. NOT laxity or cowardice or candy coated pandering but, like you said, a genuine understanding for the other, to will their good and to know them well so that we can speak in a language they understand- a language communicating the TRUTH of Christ without dilution.
For although the way you portrayed spreading the Gospel seems plainly straightforward at first, even Paul “pandered” to an extent- not for the SAKE of pandering or being buddies, but instead out of a pastoral and genuine concern for the peoples he encountered.
By his own account he “became all things to all people”, and when encountering pagan temples he found the truth within and used it to proclaim Christ. He met the Athenians where they were at in a way that catered to their understanding and their worldview while firmly rooted in the Spirit of Truth. And yes, he was mocked by some when he mentioned the Resurrection, but others respected his teaching and knowledge, very likely due to the way in which he delivered it- free of blind triumphalism but full of devotion to the truth of God, putting Him above all things.
There is a way as wise as serpents, a way to reconcile true listening, which leads to understanding, in order to respond in the most effective, most charitable yet unflinchingly courageous ways, never bending to the crooked self-worship of the world. In this world where we seem more and more forced to be steel cold tanks or the cushiest doormats, it seems to me that the way of true charity is above either.
You can take an ought from an is though. Isn’t that what natural law and teleology are?
You listen first to understand. That's why we listen. Listening is a starting point, not an ending point. But listening without action is truly useless. "the highways of the world are littered with corpses of indecisive squirrels."
With V2, the Church threw out St. Thomas Aquinas and the handmaidens of Faith and Reason.
What if Jesus only listened when he walked the earth?!! Ridiculous!!! We have some blessed shepherds who proclaim the truth. But, clearly, not enough. Why did only a few of these cheer last week’s SCOTUS decision. So disappointing.
Maybe they saw that your judges had to lie to get on the court and they know lying is a sin?
@@kevinkelly2162 What lies and to whom did they lie to ?.
@@wambaofivanhoe9307 That is a truly a horrendous situation. Such evil will be answered by God’s justice. The fact is, that Roe V Wade made abortion on demand a contraceptive choice and killed millions of babies. We have to beg for God’s mercy and pray his justice doesn’t hurl us into the fiery depths of damnation. And welcome all babies into this life. I pray that you may be joined with God’s truth and majesty.
I think the "listening church" is a backlash against those who have vaguely understood platitudes that they throw out at the first hint of someone voicing a difficulty. If someone complains that the water to their apartment has been cut off, neither just listening to the problem nor being told "you need a personal relation with Jesus" is going to solve the problem - which needs someone to help examine possible causes and talk to people who can get the water turned back on.
Similarly, for those who voice suffering feelings of being cut off from people, ignored and abandoned, there is a harsh reality within the complaint that have been brought about by the COVID social distancing, and in the Protestant churches the "safe church" program to prevent any possible court cases involving abuse or harassment. For the church to stand in vestments and preach from the pulpit a mechanistic Gospel of "Jesus Saves" and then walk away, they will not help as much as a message of Christ's love and hope by setting up telephone trees to contact each other once a day at a set time, or deliver grocery items at set intervals. Both Mary and Martha are needed and beloved and need to act within the Body of Christ.
For the young people in economically distressed areas, the loss of hope in getting a job is not helped by just listening (even though face-to-face listening may take them out of Internet algorithm traps). Talking with older folks who have also listened and heard the situation today is not the same as in 1949, and are interested in mentoring and helping the young folks look for opportunities to make a living in useful and achievable ways (not just "borrow money and get a college degree"), could be a great help. Why would someone in their "golden retirement" reach out and work with young people like that? Because THAT is part of the Gospel as well. And that needs to be preached, too.
Listening Church = Lukewarm Church
Honestly, I am not sure we are even a listening Church anymore. This is no more evident then the Synod report that was just released by our Diocese (I live in the same area as you do). It was clearly written by the Oprah generation, and people of our generation were not heard. I didn't see any of the concerns you have so eloquently and consistently outlined in your videos reflected. Yet I know I submitted similar thoughts to yours.
I'm pretty sure such quote was from Penn Jillette, the magician. lol
Father Altman did that and the church got rid of him.
More needed to do as he did. They can't get rid of everyone.
@@wambaofivanhoe9307
Democrat party goes against everything that the Catholic church teaches. The only thing I see with that party of politics is saying to God, F**k you, God.
So many of these politicians cause scandal when given the Eucharist by derelict clergy. I am quessing so many Catholics forgot what sacrilege is.
Then if you have ever read what St. Catherine of Remmerich said the punishment is for bad Christians, she had many visions. The many Catholic clergy are just to cowardly to mention anything that's why we have Catholics who believe in gay marriage and abortion because of the party of death the Democrat party.
Then all the homosexual sexual stuff in the church also, Father Altman ain't far off.
The very interesting thing during all this, a rainbow appeared over Father Altmans residence for 3 consecutive days.
Can't deny, God must of appreciated those comments.
Here it is pointed out how this absurd dynamic might come from psychology's pop influence and it's hidden intent of healing the soul (hidden in the sense of not accepting the religious terminology but dealing with the exact same aspect) while denying morality as capital part of the antidote. I agree psychology is a major source of disruption here, but let's consider an even deeper issue than denying morality. Most schools of thought in psychology believe to some extent, that the reason for the sickness of the psyche is in the repression of our compulsions (we Catholics call that sins). So for psychology, mostly, it is a case of letting yourself ABSOLUTELY loose to be cured, stop "suppressing" (or oppressing) yourself, get rid of all oppressions inner and outer, and that will begin to heal you. So they have a set of morals, only it is upsidedown. So much so that they won't call it "absolute" even though they act in an organized set of rituals directed towards a common goal, and there's a consensus on that. When we say "progressivism" for example, we might not be versed enough to know every little detail but we can generally point out at what their "ethos" is about, and they defend it as a consistent set of rules. They might say there are not absolute morals, but that's just part of their upsidedown ritual cause they do end up acting out a set of rules as absolutely moral, for instance, one absolute moral rule for them is to not offend the "victim of a particularity".
Considering that's the predominant speech, there we see the rhetoric root cause for this voluntary shutting down of everyone who should be preaching by example and word, but isn't. If I say anything "Gospel" to anyone I could be oppressing them and therefore I must be making them sick, and if they feel oppressed by me, who primarily am a Catholic then they will not be cured but besides that they will think Church is awful and then.... See where I'm going? But yes, the only solution to that is to talk with example and word, lead by the prudent gide of the Holy Spirit and never our own.
But see how backwards we're thinking, that we say if we water down the Gospel that's inspired by God cause that's "compassion", but if we just speak the exact same words of Jesus, the apostles and the prophets, like just quoting them, it is impressive how many people will say "oh no! Jesus wouldn't want us to say such harsh things! That's self-righteous!". Again, the upsidedown.
I lived this not listening. In the midst of fires and the worst natural catastrophes, we said We need help, silence, and everyone looked the other way. I was injured I needed help to get on my feet again, I am internally disabled, silence. Do you realise how cruel it is when a disabled person is injured and leaving them on their own to get back on their feet? Our nation and area, whole nations are being swallowed up by the sea, and we said we needed help, silence, look the other way. The contemplatives and meditators, will be interrupted beyond measure. Silence is screaming because of the neglect and negligence. Those that are listening to the ones that need healing are abusing them. But in the midst of that abuse the healing from understanding came through and there was nothing like the healing that comes through from finally being heard and understood only to have it taken away, because of the abuse done by the one that was listening did. after years of my soul crying because I was made disabled at the expense of others, at the corruption...my soul cries and cries and grieves beyond measure, because no one can give me 5 seconds of their time to hear what it was like. It keeps me in this disabled injury. The church in the earth has become so neglectful negligent, betraying and the list goes on, it is not forgotten, I never forget and neither does my nation we remember everything. Including when whole towns are being wiped out and we hear no one is coming. We listen, but no one wants to listen back, except for God, except for silence, silence is a fantastic listener, but why couldn't people listen? Why couldn't we have interactive listening, its called communication. Do you realise how rude the church, christians have become along with inhumane and cruel. We have a humanity that can't listen.
Can you explain this to my wife?
I have a question, what do you think about the idea that the Bible does not prohibit homosexuality and if it says something similar, is actually not refering to same sex relationships?
The burden of proof isn't merely on those who would claim it's wrong but on those who would claim it's good and right. The bible isn't a rulebook of prohibitions but a library of stories and teachings which also include assertions about what is true and good. Every time the Bible references marriage and sexuality, is based on the complimentary of male and female as created by God. It says that that God created them male and female and that man and woman become one flesh when united in marriage. It never condones or describes same-sex relationships as normal or part of God's plan, but it does describe them in no uncertain terms as being unnatural. Sodomy is the word used to describe sexual acts between men. This is, etymologically, drawn from the city of Sodom, where this was common, who sins were so grave that they cried out to heaven for vengeance. Lastly, we don't merely rely on the Bible, but on Natural reason and law from which, there are no good arguments for why it's normal or good and plenty that elaborate on what sex is, what it's teleology is, and how same-sex acts are excluded from that teleology.
many people that attend church dont actually have a relationship with God because they ignore the bible they are just going through the motions
john smith:
You must be a Protestant.
Mark 11:13((G.N.T.))🏅
I am not sure if Trent Horn talked about this... But, this is Penn Jillette (Penn and Teller), who proclaims himself to be an atheist:
th-cam.com/video/6md638smQd8/w-d-xo.html
I believe this is what you may be attributing to Trent Horn.
Put the ban upon them!
You really don't get it, do you? Listening is the first step in establishing a bridge. Have you ever been an ACTIVE member of the Legion of Mary? In reaching out, the first step is to listen. And you might need to listen many times and then bring the truth to them. That is what the Legion of Mary does. Read the handbook of the Legion of Mary. Sometimes, even though we listen, we start by inviting those we reach out to to pray with us. It is not fear but a way of inching, little by little, to the non -believers. Do you even remember how the priests who dealt with Alphonse Ratisbonne listened to him and prayed one hundred Memorares for him? That won the eventual conversion of Alphonse Ratisbonne, who sought to destroy the Catholic Church. And do you even pray for those you criticize, or do you just criticize? Why don't you join the Legion of Mary praesidium as an active (not auxiliary) member instead of talking and find out how it is to reach out to others, sometimes in the worst conditions, be it the weather or the human, spiritual or economic environments? Same goes for those who just criticize from their keyboards. Easy to be judgmental from your keyboards without doing anything. That's the one thing I notice about YT preachers. Constantly preaching via YT, yet not even making any effort to be an active member of the Legion of Mary. (Easy to be auxiliary, not easy to be active.)