Making the Church Unnecessary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2022
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Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
A church that merely affirms people in who they are, how they behave, and what they know, is a church that has admitted to itself and anyone watching, that it doesn't need to exist. If we believe that the Church should exist, then it can only be because it has something to offer the world that it doesn't already have. That necessitates a counter-cultural Church - one that stands firm in opposition to the incoherent and prevailing fashions of the day.
Podcast Version: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/
A church/religion that abandons its creed and traditions for the sake of modernity merely becomes a meaningless hobby. I’d much rather go fishing.
90% of protestant churches
The church of England has done this well.
And a church that has been caught abusing it's most vulnerable members in the most dispicable ways is OK with you?
@@kevinkelly2162 That's not really a valid argument against the Catholic church, it's just an emotional response. Would you say we should now condemn Baptist because they have had scandals? Imperfect men will do imperfect things.
@@kevinkelly2162 lol where did I insinuate I was okay with that? 😅
I thank the Lord for leading us to the tlm in 2019. I love the one holy apostolic true catholic church.
Unfortunately, most don't have access to it. 😟
@@Ripplenator true… so sad
@@mariepaukowits1709 The TLM is not very traditional in many ways. For one example (of many), the Apostles and Church Fathers would be aghast at people receiving only the Body of Christ and not the Blood (against Christ's commandments when he told his followers "Drink of this all of you"). The Orthodox Church is the only Church founded by Christ.
The "Orthodox" Church is not one, true church. It has just as many denominations as any protestant sect.
It doesn't evangelize and cannot be found in every country across the world (unlike the Catholic Church) because it caters to specific ethnicities, mostly Eastern European.
The claim that it's founded by Christ is false because it has no union with the pope who is the succesor of St. Peter.
Remember St. Paul needed to go to St. Peter to get permission to preach the Gospel. It was St. Peter who confirmed, affirmed and allowed St. Paul to evangelize in the name of Christ. Without St. Peter the epistles of St. Paul wouldn't even exist in the Bible.
Essentially, the Orthodox Church has rejected St. Peter by rejecting his successor, the Pope; and by rejecting St. Peter you reject the rock by which Christ founded and built His Church upon.
It is only pride that stands in the way of reunion between the Orthodox and the Catholic Church. A silly and ridiculous pride of total autocephely apart from St. Peter's successor who is Christ's rock.
The Church is in the world but not of the world, sometimes many Christian Catholics need to be reminded of that.
Maybe that's what religious people think but studying the history of the church I can't help but come to the conclusion that churches, all churches, are just human organizations like any other, and behave in very similar ways.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
Brian, you are a voice we need to hear. Please continue and don’t let doubts stop you. God is with you . God bless you, Mary
I needed to hear this. It explains why I keep coming back to the RCC. I resist and push back, but by golly, at least I know it stands for something and there are boundaries to push against.
As a former Church of Sweden Lutheran - but now a Catholic - this is exactly my thoughts about the calls for ”renewal” within the Roman-Catholic Church and the so called ”Synod of synodality.”
Welcome to the Church! Do you live in Sweden?
Have you considered the Orthodox Church?
As a former episcopalian, the same thing is happening here in the US to the Anglicans/Episcopalians here. They have woked themselves into irrelevance. The one was used to attend in our city closed down. It was rented by a non-denominational church for a little while and now it just stands empty. Our parish is trying to buy it so we can ask a group of nuns to come here.
@BVale we are pretty lucky in our bishop. I wouldn't call him a traditionalist but he's not modernist either. So far the hold up has been that the Episcopal bishop of the area seems more content to let the building be empty and costing them money instead of selling it to us dirty papists. 😅 Being a former member of that now closed Episcopal church, that attitude doesn't surprise me in the least. We got a lot of hate when we converted.
Have you considered the Orthodox Church?
@@cjgumbert for one, there isn't any in my area at all, for at least several hours in any direction. :) We do have a Russian church in communion with Rome but given it's not my culture I didn't feel called to attend there. And then also, I considered all views before converting and was convinced by the Catholic views to be the truth. I love my Orthodox brothers a sisters though! ❤️ I pray we can be one church again.
@@Mrs_Homemaker Ah, I must have misunderstood. By your mentioning that the "same thing" is happening to the RCC that happened to the Episcopalians, I was under the impression that you weren't entirely convinced by the Roman claims. If you'd ever want a decent Orthodox introductory perspective on the schism, I'd highly recommend Michael Whelton's Two Paths. May God bless you.
@@cjgumbert oh sorry, I meant the "same thing" to American Anglicans as to the English ones mentioned in the episode. They sort of operate slightly separate, but their fate has been the same as the English church.
Lord, we need the Catholic Church NOW more than ever. With all it's beauty and sacredness. With Truth To be a witness in this modern and corrupt world. Lord help us 🙏⬆️.
Well said. My prayer too.
Women originated the priesthood?
Says who?
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
@@RepentJC you may wish to study up on the Catholic Church before you continue to proclaim it isn’t a Christian religion. It would proclaim itself as the originators. Seems to me that Fake Christians seek enemies of other Christians and those who aren’t Christians but have Christ like beliefs.
I would think Real Christians accept that other people may have found a way to commune with God without Christ. Maybe I’m just stupid and ignorant, though? If that is stupid ignorance, and it leads me to Hell, then what can I say except that’s where I’m happy to go.
@@RepentJC Take your lies somewhere else. We don’t care what you think.
Cutting us from Tradition is like undercutting the roots of our existence. Sometimes I think, that it is done in purpose. Let us pray for strength
It is definitely done on purpose. It is an attack against Christianity/ Western culture & values.
I completely agree. Lots of people think that we should reject traditions and move forward. They do not realise however, that if a tree wants to grow, it needs roots, otherwise any kind of wind, however weak, will lay it down.
@@MatejCrhak And without the references and lessons of the past, from the suffering of past generations, it only allows for future mistakes and depravities to be repeated in the future, making past sacrifices meaningless and a disrespect to those people who suffered for us, so that we may have lived a better life.
@@redheadsilver8041 Exactly!!
Ikr?🙂
Well put.
Anglicanism isn’t going anywhere in Africa (from what I’ve seen), and there are still pockets of more traditional Anglicanism throughout the world, but to your main point, it’s an accurate indictment of the Church of England, and frankly a sobering warning to the Catholic Church in the West. If we lack moral teaching and care not to practice moral authority, we become a caricature of something like a distant overindulgent aunt instead of the gentle but firm Mother Church.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
@@RepentJC who are we to judge who will be saved or not.
@@RepentJC Great job quoting from the Bible, my favorite Catholic book!
Right! This HAS been tried before, and without the call to be Saints, man will just use the excuse "I'm only human" then be a Spiritual Minimalist calling it being a "good person."
It’s interesting (and intentional) today how so many are offended by definitive definitions for words like “good” and “person.”
Perhaps churches are still in the process of losing the "mushy middle", or the "lukewarm", and we're surprised by how many of those people are in positions of responsibility and influence in our churches and denominations.
I accidentally cut myself off. I am not catholic but agree with the gist of what you say, althogh this conforming to the ways of the culture is not just an Anglican problem. Stay strong my Catholic brothers and sisters!
Right. Just here to provide some support and fortification. I’m actually over there with the Jews and Protestants. But, since I have an Irish grandpa I figured I better take advantage of the whole Remus/Romulus metaphor in my circumstance😎
Here’s the thing trendy Christians- the secular institutional leaders just aren’t that into you. And as you continue to shrink they will be less friendly to you because you’ll be less useful to them.
Very true
The term "myth" is highly underrated.
Myths aren't, in the popular sense, just fake stories people tell to make themselves feel better.
Catholicism is a living myth. It is a way of life that sprung up because of a story about a man who claimed to be God, who showed us what God would do if He were a man. That God-man died for us, and then rose to show us what we could become if we do the same.
That myth was not merely written on paper in books. It was written it its first disciples:Peter and Paul, Andrew, James, John,Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude, Matthias. All lived, and most died, living that myth in their bones. A myth they had touched the origins of intimately.
And the best part of the Catholic myth - they knew this about its origins - is that it's real, historical fact as well.
No other myth, not Islam, not Buddhism, not Marxism, none of the other ideologies has that going for it. Most are dreams. Some were visions. Ours is real.
We have the one real myth you can only deny by turning a blind eye.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
@@RepentJC - you cannot say you accept Christ when you reject His Body the Catholic Church.
The Church wrote the New Testament, decided in 382, 393,397 and 419 which books even belong in the Bible, has had unbroken historical connection to Jesus and His Apostles and has taught from day one what she teaches today. Nobody has the Authority to interpret Scripture except the Church the God Man founded and gave His Authority and power to. You’re an amateur who’s like a little kid dressed up in a cop uniform. You can blow your whistle and cite laws chapter and verse but in the end you’re a poser with zero Authority. Like all religions except Catholicism. You’re welcome. Glad I could help you out.
@@RepentJC Amen, brother. That's why, in Matthew 16, Jesus asked at Caesarea Philippi, at a huge rock filled with idols, "Who do people say that I am?"
Peter rightly answered, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16, KJV)
To which Christ replied that he was correct: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." (v17)
Peter was blessed by the Father with the Truth of who Jesus is. And Jesus further said:
"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (vv. 18-19)
Later, indeed two verses later, Jesus tells the disciples he shall be handed over and crucified, and Simon "began to rebuke Him" (vv.21-22). And Jesus rebuked Peter, saying:
"Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." (v23)
This is the example of papal infallibility: not that the Pope always says what is right. He is a human being, and can fail to "savour the things that be of God".
But when called by God to answer a contentious question, particularly of the Faith, after examining what is said about it, the Pope is blessed by God to make a right judgement.
This is also how Petrine authority is exercised over the Judaizers at the Council of Jerusalem, in Acts 15 (see specifically vv. 6-7).
The Pope is not the first word in a contention. He is the last. Then they get on to doing their job of bringing the Gospel to the world.
The use of the word myth when referring to the the Truth in Sacred Scripture was brought into use by scripture 'scholars'.
Although I wouldn't use the word legend, it is more appropriate as legend is based on truth, historical fact as myth is not truth based. Unfortunately, many adopt this insult to God and the one true Church of Jesus Christ. Ascribing myth to Christianity lowers it to common value or equality with the many other 'faiths' and ideologies. It's then a pick one, any one, one is as good as another 'truth'.
Appreciate the commentary, Brian you always give me a lot to reflect on thank you.
Amen! Thanks brother!
Brian, you have a gift for getting to the heart of the situation and clearly explaining it. Thank you!
Excellent video! Thank you for your clear illustrations.
When I looked at the thumbnail with Cardinals Tobin and Cupich, an expression ' Happy Knives' popped into my head, then I thought about that term for a bit and realized the term was actually was *_Gay Blades._* The Church needs our prayers now, more than ever.
" No heresy, in 2000 years of the Catholic Church's existence, ever succeeded unless it was promoted and backed by the bishops"
Fr. John Harden
I was shocked when I first heard this but now it makes sense!
@@drjanitor3747 and unfortunately it only seems to be getting worse. If the German Bishops have their way, they will be marrying each other
Outstanding commentary. Well done.
It makes sense. Very wise words! Thank You Brian!+
Brilliant illustration. Simple and clear.
I wrote my diocese the other day and asked for our focus to remain on orthodoxy. I stated that an Orthodox Church was the greatest draw for the sinner. Not a go with the flow institution. Great video Brian.👍🙏
Thanks for this thoughtful reflection.
Intelligently stated, as always. Much appreciated, Brian.
Well put, Brian.
Good analysis. Thank you so much.
Great analogy.
3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻
Incredible video man thank you
What did G.K. Chesterson say? (and I'm paraphrasing): "Only dead things flow with the current; only living things swim against it."
Spot on as always.
BRILLIANT!!!HEAR,HEAR
Great video...so true!!!
Absolutely spot on!
Perfect, Brian.
Always on point
Well put.
This is such a great angle. This is going to preach strong.
I agree with everything you said. The education analogy is apt. The Church’s mission is to teach.
The school example is great metaphor for what is happening now in the Catholic Church
Absolutely agree! Catholic schools are woke! No authority no guidance from the Church, anything goes and everyone is afraid to say anything. Bullying attitude from parents and pupils. They've turned into Anti-Catholic institutions instead of somewhere to be safe in the Faith!
Sorta long-winded but good point. Thanks for the content as always
What you say, ironically, is also a description of the public schools in the United States. They are no longer teaching anything of real consequence.
Thank you Brian for your clear analysis. Absolutely right. The true Roman Catholic Church is very much alive and growing through the Society of St.Pius X. They ate in an irregular canonical position with the Modern Novus Ordo but are growing and keeping the treasure of the real faith for the world. We pray fervently for the conversion of all to the Sacred Hearts of Mary and Jesus.
Not just the TLM. Also the Catholic Ordinariate for former Anglicans And the Eastern Catholics.
Ya, apparently they forgot that Jesus drove the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder what He would say about miniature golf.
Literally my first thought on seeing those pictures. There is nothing new under the sun.
Persevere, Brian. You are on the right track. IMHO
We must Pray that the Pope will stop the heresy in the German Church or we may face the same end.
You do not need to go to Germany to find heretcis, the Bishop of Zaragoza in Spain is for ordaining women and ditching celibacy. I am astonished
@@cinderelladevil1687 I think there is room for a married order of priests in the Church. Clerical celibacy is not a doctrinal matter, it is an ecclesiastical discipline. It could be modified without contravening any Catholic doctrine. I think there will always be an important role for celibate orders in the Church but I think it could be good to have at least one order of priests in which marriage is an option.
@@blakemoon123 I know it is not a doctrinal matter, but I am married, and my own family troubles would distract me from my vocation if I were a priest. The tradition keeps wisdom, and I think celibacy is a wise matter
@@cinderelladevil1687 Yes, I see your point. They are reasonable arguments. But on the other side of the coin, I think there could be benefits to having priests who have hands-on experience of their own family life in terms of their ability to really empathise with the experiences of the laity and wider public. And it might help to boost the number of vocations, especially in the Western World and to further minimise the likelihood of more cases of sex abuse in the Church, although I realise that last point is open to debate ( I know that the degree to which celibacy played a role in the sex abuse cases is a matter of contention. )
@@cinderelladevil1687 And remember, I support maintaining celibacy as an important spiritual discipline and counter-cultural sign in most Catholic clerical and monastic orders. I’m just saying that I think the Church is capacious enough to incorporate perhaps one order of clergy who have the option of marriage.
This is a great analogy. Unfortunately, many of us are in parishes that do not chanllenge us. The sermons I heard were more of suggestions that do little to turn me away from sin, challenge my discipleship and rarely impart to me very useful principles. It does very little to make me act in a certain way in accordance to what Jesus demands of us. Iron sharpens iron and its tough for me if no one is sharpening me as well.
Last week I was at an event and talking to a priest I know. I told him that we attend a parish 20 miles away for the reverent liturgy and I also told him I need to be challenged.
He stopped and turned around to another priest and told him what I said and asked me to repeat it that I want to be challenged.
@@michellemcdermott2026 Well its "his" job to challenge you parishioners. If that was me, I'd slightly be offended. I actually submitted a 16-page report and letter to my bishop last May 27th where I reported much of the concerns that I could recall in our local church, about the liturgy, the Eucharist, the pandemic, the culture and even foreign legislation. I even included an article I found online about the reception of the Eucharist by the tongue because our diocese only ever allows reception by the hand since the pandemic which is wrong by the way. I also included my apologetic track and 5 editions of the evangelization gazette I made. I sneaked in at lunchtime, talked to the archbishop. He was friendly but said he had no time to spare after that and before I could finish talking, he interrupted me, had his priest secretary take my report. And I'm hoping to see them on the 24th this month and see if they read my letter that took me days to complete.
@@michellemcdermott2026 Go listen to Fr. Edward Meeks and Fr. Jeffrey Kirby here on TH-cam. That's how a priest and pastor should preach.
@@ramirreyes6414 I love them both
@@ramirreyes6414 I hope he wasn't offended lol. Praying for you.
Holding fast to the traditions is great but the REAL battle going on is now more important than simply worrisome Mass Liturgy practices. We have a division that is clear as day with the San Francisco Archbishop warning the Speaker of her danger in receiving the Eucharist yet the DC Archbishop is going to still offer her the Eucharist. This is the scandal that really should be front and center over anything else.
Well said Brian.
Random question - I would like to visit a Catholic Latin Mass. I'm interested in exploring Catholicism, so I obviously cannot receive the Eucharist as a non-Catholic. What is the appropriate thing to do while people in my pew are going up for communion? Should I sit in the pew? Get out of the pew so I don't block others?
Brian your point is accurate and poignant.🙏🏽 We need to hold tight to the truths of the Bible.
Everyone should read sr Lúcias last freely given interview to Fr Fuentes in 1957. It is so relevant to our situation today
Great word. And - thanks be to God - orthodox Anglicanism is growing world-wide and even in the USA
The religion of Cranmer? Hard pass. I'll take a troublesome Pope any day.
Can you link the article please?
I find your video simplistic. To take the case of education you use leads one to the conclusion you wish. If you stop and look at it more closely, the modern view on the individual could be shown that in the case of learning to write one not only must be able to distniguish scribbling and writing but also must consider if the individual is left or right handed or even has dyslexia. In the past without thse considerations much harm was done.
Often times insisting one size fits all, left handed individuals were forced to use their right hands. Churhces also made this mistake in their domain which eventuallly led to a decline in membership. Respect for individual differences could reverse this decline NOT increase it
The statistic about the Church of England is very sad but not surprising
Brian, can you do an episode on science (in general)?
So true.
Ah. Good video. Very resonant. The Church of England. It is one of the churches in the Anglican Communion, the "mother ship" so to speak. It suffers greatly because, with the monarch is at its head, for better or for worse it can be seen simply as a noble tradition and a means to meet important people (royalty, sometimes). The CoE suffers a lack of those who see it as a place to learn, reflect on where they/we fall short of the teachings, confirm what they believe, and then act on those beliefs. Many do feel it is a place for strong beliefs and acting on some beliefs that are incredibly "woke", but there are others who are excellent and worthy Christians.
As soon as any church or denomination is seen as a marker for a specific exclusive tribe, a way of indicating socio-economic class, instead of a marker of (what to the non-Christian amounts to) placing trust in a non-secular spiritual triune being, and following the practices toward worship and toward other people as outlined by that being, it becomes a social club and not a part of the Body of Christ. And that can happen in any congregation or denomination.
I have been considering Anglicanism, Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. I think that here is a good reason to narrow down the choice to only two options.
Brian also did a video about why he chose Catholicism over Eastern Orthodoxy.
@@julieelizabeth4856 Thanks!
The new Cardinal of San Diego is the kind of bishop who discredits the Church. He has nothing to teach us.
I am wondering if different terms could be used in your videos, instead of "Catholics or Christians ". Sometimes people also say "Catholics and Christians". Both of that terminology does not readily give the impression that Catholics ARE Christians. In fact, based on what other groups (I won't use Church - there is only one Church) believe, they can't be labeled Christian. To do so cheapens the word Christian. Could "Catholic and non Catholic be used? Also, saying "other denominations implies that the Catholic Faith is just one of many - instead of the one true Church Thank you!
I agree with you.
In a Catholic school I was taught to use Catholic and non-Catholic.
There is one true Church, and if your not Catholic then it really doesn't matter which other group you are affiliated with.
@@alhilford2345
AMEN! Thank you!
There's two things here that I think are worth noting.
First, the video appears to be largely unscripted and he is speaking off the cuff. To me, the way he says "…Catholics or Christians…" sounds like he's correcting himself. It sounds more like "…Catholics - no wait, all people who call themselves Christians…" than "…Catholics and - because Christians aren't Catholic - Christians…" to me. There's no excuse for sloppy language, and I agree that better wording would be a good idea, so I like the constructive criticism, but one must remember that he's not reading a finessed script, so there is a challenge there.
I feel like he's trying to say things in a way that would make non-Catholic viewers feel a bit more familiar with what he's talking about. I'm certain he's aware that "denomination" is a very Protestant term, and that Protestants (those that don't think the Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan at least) would consider Catholicism to just be another denomination. Based on the way he uses terms like that in this and other videos, I think he believes that he has a good percentage of Protestant viewers, so when topics like this one can apply to them as well, he uses a bit more of the "ecumenical language" to make that portion of the audience a little more comfortable… and thus not have them give up and leave.
@@markpugner9716
At one point, I looked up what the ELCA believes - as they were the main cocelbrant in 2017 with the Catholics to honor Martin Luther (I did all that I could to oppose this - the text was sickening). On one of the ELCA insurance websites, they answered a question from a participant asking if the ELCA insurance would pay for sex selective abortions. The answer was yes. I could give you numerous other examples from other non Catholic groups such as these. My point is, how could we dishonor Christ and His Church to the extent that we would call these groups Christians? We cannot perpetrate a narrative that uses words contrary to reality. They are not Christian. There is only one Church.
@@monicamohan4720 Personally, I like using the Nicene Creed as a basic benchmark for what defines a Christian. Sure, some Protestants would say "I don't use creeds" but still would agree with the statements within. On the flip-side, from a Catholic perspective, it's missing out on some important things. While I do believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, I also believe that there's lots of Protestants who are trying to have the best relationship with God that they can, but haven't been rightly exposed to Catholicism to realise their mistakes. I don't think saying that those Protestants aren't Christian would be a good way to help them along that path.
When I was an ignorant Protestant (knowing nothing of Catholicism other than thinking it was just a "more traditional" group of Christians), I started working for a Catholic-owned/run company. When my boss realised I was a Protestant (attending a Lutheran church at the time, though not an ELCA one), if he had just said "you're not actually Christian" or used divisive-though-accurate language in our conversations about the faith, I would have felt very off-put by it. Instead he, like Brian in the video above, used some of that more "ecumenical"-sounding language. Three years later, I joined the Church.
Of all non-Catholic groups that call themselves Christian, the ELCA is a rather "progressive" group. I find it interesting that you pick them as an example. I'm sure there are many within the "progressive Christian" groups who are there with a mission (and not Christ's mission). But I think there are also many there that truly think they are doing what's best for their relationship with Christ. Either way, I think it's important to note that they are in a minority among Protestants, and even many Protestants don't consider them "really" Christian.
Some Catholic Church documents even call Protestants separated brethren. I think that in and of itself is enough to show us Catholics that we should at least acknowledge that there are Protestants who are Christian, though ignorant, sorely mislead, or maybe (like my parents) too stubborn to allow themselves to see the Truth in the Catholic Church's teachings. I don't think we should just say that their traditions and beliefs are right and not worth discussing, but to go completely in the other direction and brush them off as not Christian would not help them become Catholic either.
In some of the Anglican communions, they have so much money escrowed from past times that they essentially no longer require donations to pay their ministers. That may seem like a blessing but it can also be a curse. Organizations can usually tell if they are pleasing to the people by the slowing down of donations, but when that is not needed, the ministers can just do what they want essentially. This means that each parish has the risk of simply being an ego trip of whoever is in charge and a lot of virtue signaling. A good example of this is that many of these parishes closed down completely during Covid-19. Not requiring donations, they did not need the parishioners either. It seems likely to me that many of those parishioners would not bother to return when the doors are open again.
The Catholics are feeling the pinch at the minute. Having to pay millions to abuse victims will do that. Did you hear that Cordileone has had to pay out $87 million? And that is just 125 cases.
@@kevinkelly2162 Everyone is feeling the pinch because the treasonous politicians take more and more money and make it impossible for their to be a middle class.
One victim of abuse is too much, and I do not wish to dismiss the gravity of such. However, with that being said, there are no more abuse cases in the Catholic Church then in any other institution both religious and secular. The highest institution of abuse cases is secular public schools. The highest percentage of abuse cases in general is in individual families. The statistics on this are publicly available since insurance companies constantly do this kind or research.
As for dioceses being sued, such things are covered by insurance in most cases, the same as any other institution. The dioceses that have to pay out of pocket is because those particular bishops (God have mercy on their souls) attempted to criminally cover it up rather than use due process. That is why no Catholic or anyone of goodwill should ever donate to any charity that does not have a proper and transparent process of abuse prevention.
By the way, I was not trying to pick on Anglicans. I was commenting on something I heard in relation to the video topic.
@@keithmayhewhammond5357 The bit you forgot to mention about schools is that the vast majority of these attacks were between children, not teachers and children. This is not true for the Catholic Church. It may have been a mistake but it does seem dishonest. It makes you come across as an apologist for child abuse which I am sure you are not.
@@kevinkelly2162 If I start my comment by saying that one case of abuse is too much, it is fairly obvious that I am not defending a crime or criminals, so it really cannot come across that way unless selectively read. As for what you say about the differences, that is something that I am unfamiliar with, so I will have to do further research on it to verify - but that was certainly not my understanding of the information I previously came across.
If it is the case that there are a high number of abuses between children, then that is still a significant problem that those institutions need to fix. A parent does not want to hear that their child has nothing to fear from staff but only from students. What they want to hear is that their children will be safe, that there are measures in place to prevent this sort of thing, whether from staff, volunteers, or peers.
That being said, public schools was just an example. The main point of what I said was that the Catholic Church does not have higher cases then any other institution. If you would rather only make that comparison between other religious communities, then the result is the same.
Likewise, it is not as if I am randomly shouting facts at people. I am responding to a comment that you made on the subject.
@@keithmayhewhammond5357 But I ended my comment with ' I am sure you are not' so where the misunderstanding came from I do not know. I just did a quick Google and what I read said that in schools 70% of the abuse was between children. And how do you know that the CC has just as many cases as other institutions? They are closing ranks and protecting the perpetrators, something schools don't do.
The medieval Italian monk Joachim of Fiore predicted a time when formal churches,dogmatic creeds,clergy and all that sort of thing would become redundant and we would enter the age of the Holy Spirit -I think his predictions are coming true now -formal religiousity and creeds and arrogant clergy and church hierarchies might have been somewhat necessary in the past but now we are entering an era when we can ditch them -and that's actually happening if you can see the signs -the Age of the Spirit!
We were blessed to live in these times. The Church is divine, but she needs us as humans to support her. We will stay put in the Resistance.
Guys!! Relax. God is always in charge…😊
Or even worse turn away people like Calvin Robinson who want to be a priest for telling truth
Sadly the church of England is too far gone.
@@evacope1718 agreed
This makes me really sad because I'm an Episcopalian 😭
The church isn’t trying hard enough to push back against the world.
The Catholic Church should acquire the Anglican and Lutheran churches that exist.
It's because the state got involved with it that it lost it's spine. This is the same with every institution and community tho, tbh. It's the attempts to not offend anyone that we close ourselves off and don't fully express ourselves. This is why it's so easy to be charismatic these days, you just need to not be lukewarm.
The problem with your school analogy is that if school were rendered unnecessary then...
...it'd be a gread step towards reverting society to Biblical and/or Medieval ways of living, and therefore would not be a bad thing at all.
Positive videos please vs critical ones. Both are necessary. Critical ones are easier to produce but I believe produce less fruit at the end of the day. Thank you for your consideration. God bless
I’m convinced our Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, only church of Christ is the giver of truth that exists in the supernatural. If it is disseminated well, and received well, we transcend the trappings of the world and inch ever more closely to divine love and grace.
Right on point. Pas en Cristo, JO
Brian, this is the exact aim of the wolves in the Church today and from the beginning.
Those 'great gothic citadels' were Catholic citadels not protestant ones. They were seized and desecrated by the heretics of Henry VIII and his successors. Even Saint Paul's in London was an attempt to copy St Peter's in Rome. A historical point that sums up the inherent weakness of the Church of England. It is a sect which never really understood what it was or what it believed because it was founded by a tyrannical narcissist who tried to create his own church based on the Old Testament as a whim.
I agree.
And, after destroying statues of the saints and other Catholic works of art, the "reformers" decorated those cathedrals with statues of English royalty.
St. Paul's Cathedral does have some statues of the Apostles, but it also has over five hundred statues and memorials of "celebrities".
Are these other people equally worthy of respect and reverence?
Catholics are frequently accused of worshipping statues of saints, do Anglicans worship statues of kings, poets, actors, musicians, etc.?
There’s a big difference between Christianity and churchianity.
Proverbs 12:9((C.E.V.))😁
God bless the Holy Orthodox Church.
and God bless those seeking Holiness
Jesus told his church to go and convert the world to him, not for the church to convert to the ways of the world, its as simple as that.
Then to faithful Catholics, are the teachings of the Church redundant? Aren't you already Catholic? Don't you already believe that human life begins at conception? Don't you already believe that the complementarity between man and woman is a creation of God and not of man, and that a person's sex is unchangeable? By your reasoning, the Church is redundant then if it aims to "teach" you this since you already know these things. In the end, Jesus did not come to us as a teacher (or philosopher), although his teaching was and is an aspect of his mission. He came to us as our Savior. He saved us by his death and resurrection. ONLY if the Church ceases to be a vehicle for the salvation that Christ promises does the Church become redundant or unnecessary.
We follow because we believe, and we believe for we were taught, that is preached to in one form or another. The Church must spread the Word, admonish the world, and offer salvation, it is all part of its mission. The Church of England is making itself redundant by its refusal to do so, acting instead as a quango, preaching government approved niceties because its leaders have no faith. So goes with the Vatican II sect, saying all the politically correct things the world wants to hear, but none of the truth of the Faith. Only in the true Church, amongst faithful believers, is the truth being taught and reaffirmed, and so there is a purpose, a mission, to it all. There is no redundancy in preaching to the converted you see, as the Church aims to guard and perfect your faith, that it may grow and that you may ever be ready to receive Salvation.
If you stick with my original analogy, that's like saying the whole education system is redundant because some people have been educated already. It doesn't follow. Further, in the case of the faith, you could spend an entire lifetime studying and learning and have more to learn.
Elevate Bishops like McElroy to Cardinals.
Not sure I'm comfortable with the hint of triumphalism here
?
I didn’t pick up on that.
He’s going by an analysis by an Anglican… I definitely disagree that Anglicanism as a whole is going to be gone in a generation, there is too much energy and orthodoxy in the African dioceses, but as for the Church of England? It is definitely in a major decline. Not gloating, it’s just the truth.
But we Catholics had better watch out. The Church in the West is, in places, moving in this direction at breakneck speed.
Which is only problematic, insofar as the Anglican example is concerned, if Anglicanism is ultimately the Truth - otherwise, we might as well be mourning the demise of astrology...
To your education analogy, imagine a child going into school already speaking English at age-appropriate levels, and the teacher tells the child they are wrong and insists on teaching students to talk in a dialect similar to what was used in the time of Shakespeare or the writing of the KJV. I would argue this analogy better represents what the church teaches as it relates to, or better yet differs from, how our understanding of the world has evolved over time.
Except my analogy fits a particular argument. The argument is, an institution that is designed to teach something becomes unnecessary if it declines to teach as a school that refuses to teach would. Yours is an analogy to support a mere assertion. The assertion is, the Church is outdated and it needs to progress with the times. Ironically, your analogy works against your assertion, because Shakespeare is the most beautiful prose ever written, but you would rather people think, read, and write like imbeciles because "time has passed and, therefore it's better." Your assumption (as all assumptions related to progress are) is that things automatically get better with time and therefore, that which is old, is less valuable. This is something that needs to be demonstrated rather than merely asserted and you've made no such argument.
@@BrianHoldsworth I find it ironic that you essentially said you yourself are writing like an imbecile since you are not writing in the way Shakespeare did. I’m really not trying to sling mud here, but that is an implication of your argument.
Furthermore, I don’t think your claims about what I was saying accurately represent what my actual statement was. I would be happy to clarify further, but not if you are just going to tell me what I was saying.
@@jimurban5367 I'm referring to the average literacy and writing ability of someone with 12 years of education as compared to someone with 12 years of education in Shakespeare's time. It's night and day - things have not improved in that regard. So if that's the analogy, I answer, that literacy has gotten much worse and we should go back to the classical education that people received in that day.
@@BrianHoldsworth At the risk of going down a tangential rabbit hole, I have to ask the following. Where are you getting the information about literacy and writing abilities in Shakespeare’s era, and how are you making an apples-to-apples comparison to the modern era?
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
The QUALITY of that school is VERY BAD, this is the real reason of the decline! Just for example, condemning people (homosexuals) for "disordered" behaviour, what does it mean ? Is "being disordered" a sin? Everything is very bad, ungrounded, SUPERFICIAL. Rethoric and hypocrisy.
Churches are actually unnecessary, even if God exists. Reason: Per the story, if we give it all the leeway possible and say God has heaven as a reward for the sincerely good people of the world, then the people who live that kind of life without a church beating them over the head constantly would be truly good people God would want to reward. But with churches all you get are people trying to qualify for such a reward, or avoid the punishment. It's not a pure motivation, they aren't actually good. They are just being bribed into compliance. So heaven would get populated with frauds basically. But without churches, the frauds self eliminate and heaven is the idyllic place the idea of heaven brings to mind. All in all it's a ridiculous and fictional story that no one should take serious, so again, churches are unnecessary, except as part of the religious industry to keep the money flowing and keep their power base.
> So heaven would get populated with frauds basically.
You say this like God doesn't want to save frauds
@@markpugner9716 He certainly employs a lot of them.
@@avi8r66 Yep!
I like to go to Anglican/Episcopal churches because in their history they said they aimed for a "middle way" between Catholicism and Protestantism. I think that speaks volumes in terms of ecumenism, which is something we need right now
The religious fail to understand "modernity." This is not an accident because the institutions were captured long ago. Modernity is a part of what is called Capitalism. This is the system of economic and political power that replaced the European monarchies. The New World Order is the empire of money that replaced the Empire of Charlemagne. In order to displace the monarchies, a message of secular equality was born. The is the birth of "modernity."
As the empire of Capitalism expanded, the banner of Egalité was asserted before it. What did this mean to traditional Christianity, which had ascended to its zenith in the age of Charlemagne? It meant it would gradually have to yield to this new force overtaking economics and politics. Roman Catholicism was targeted for fracture under the Protestant Reformation.
The Reformation was a revolt inspired by desire for Egalité. The people had in their mind that they did not need a hierarchal Church to mediate their spiritual experience. The Reformation was a reflection of the rejection of the monarchy. This was not happenstance but design. For Capitalism to expand in influence, it would have to chip away at the institutions. The Church of England is especially noteworthy for being hollowed out because England was the Capital of Capitalism.
We are approaching the zenith of Capitalism much like the Holy Roman Empire peaked centuries before. The remnants of a massively gutted Roman Catholic Church is desperately try to cling to its history and Magisterium which the banner of Egalité says is no longer sustainable. Roman Catholicism will be worn as a pelt if people do not finally understand the reality which has been kept veiled. The leaders of the Church are assisting this New World Order come into fruition. They have long marched through the institution to fully capture it. Their coup d'eglise occured when Pope Pius XII died and the Second Vatican Council was called to "modernise" the Church.
In sum, there is a history about which people are completely uninformed. Catholics like to target this vague spectre of "modernity" without having any useful knowledge where it came from and where it is going. They do not understand Fabians and Jesuits, infiltration schemes and elite capture. They do not understand the real danger of Bergoglio whom is leading the Roman Catholic Church into perdition (no, he will not triumph). Catholics dismissed the criticisms of Karl Marx. But Marx was right in identifying this new structure of worldly power that sought to destroy the old institutions while simultaneously virtue signal in the name of religion as well as secular egalitarianism in order to continue exploiting workers. We have not yet even begun to unpack the centuries of schemes. Instead we complain about felt banners and drum sets.
If the age of Capitalism goes into decline and we still have some ruins to cling to, Christendom has the opportunity to bloom once again.
Apparently we should communists according to you? Marx was proven wrong many times over with his economic theories.
I would not say that all religious Catholics don't understand this. Many do, but the overwhelming voice of mainstream conservatism does not. One possible reason that they tend to view Marxist analysis of Captilaisms influence negatively in the church is also because they sadly associate it with hostile militant Atheism. Catholics are not entirely wrong to do that was countries like Albania and the USSR were fairly anti-religious (at times) but the socialist policies in those countries did help the citizens significantly. Nevertheless, a lot of work still needs to be done for Christendom to shine brighter than it ever has before
Marx was more right than wrong. He was merely a philosopher who is useful for understanding the system of Capitalism. How people handle that knowledge is their responsibility. Most people don't know that Lenin and Mao's revolutions contradict what Marx explained the trajectory of Capitalism would be.
Marx is akin to Copernicus explaining a heliocentric model of the universe to recalcitrant Ptolemaics.
Leninism and Capitalism are mirror images of each other. Both are secular. Leninism however is organization by state bureaucrats. Capitalism is organization by bankers and corporate bureaucrats. People have a fantasy in their minds of a Christian free market paradise that is as unrealised as any version of Communism.
If you would like to argue that Capitalism always leads to economic improvement, would you say the prosperity of the Western worker has kept up in the last forty years?
If you would like to argue Capitalism doesn't kill, would you like to look at all the countries that have turned into bloodbaths for the sake of spreading freedom, defeating autocrats, and disarming terrorists of non-existent WMDs.
If you want to say Capitalism is Christian or even tolerant to Christianity, look to Rome and look at any Western country.
I'm only advocating to see what ought to be plain. People assign meaning to things that other people have meaning to rather than investigating for themselves. Gripes about modernity are not even taken seriously by the the Church hierarchy, and people should understand why. Why is the Church dismantling itself if it's mission is ostensibly to zealously spread the Gospel to the ends of the Earth?
@@dmfuerte Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system in this history of the world. By contract socialism has killed about 100 million people in the bloodiest century on earth the 20th century.
That’s not saying anything goes in capitalism it isn’t in practice as good as the theory of it. The same is for socialism. Socialism looks much more benign until it’s put into practice and in practice it led to tens of millions murdered and starving to death
I think it's a good thing Protestantism is dying with a lot of its former members becoming Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. It should have died in the 1500s with Luther and Calvin.
If, on this 3rd day of June (Pride month 2022), you are saying that the Church's reason for being is to be anti-gay, I beg to differ.
If you know ANYTHING about the Church, it is that it has always adapted itself to new understandings of the human condition, and brought spiritual life into those new ages. How to pray; how to live a spiritual life; how to die. It's the same challenge today.
If you would had a church that accepts sin and does not correct sinful conducts then is what Brian is saying, it becomes obsolete.
@@Feoliveiran Yes, a legitimate Church denounces sin. Two adults of the same sex who love each other in fact LOVE each other. Love is the opposite of sin. A church that does not recognize love is doomed to obsolescence. That is why the Church will come around on gay marriage -- it will not go obsolete, it will come to understand.
@@fredphilippi8388 you a have a twisted perception of reality. Interesting how high is the suicide rate among people that, as you said, love each other... Something is not right.
@@fredphilippi8388 "Two adults of the same sex who love each other in fact LOVE each other" Indeed - but that doesn't mean they have SEX with each other. And therein lies the perversion: to equivocate LOVE with SEX - one an altruistic commandment tempered by intellect, the other animal instinct fueled by emotion. The Church won't come around on gay marriage, for the same reason it won't come around on square circles - no matter how many German bishops you throw at Her, the gates of Hades are still not going to get the upper hand...
@@Feoliveiran The UCLA Williams Institute did a study indicating that more than 60% of suicide attempts among LGBTQ people happen within 5 years of realizing they are LGBTQ, i.e., when they are teenagers. What that tells me is that there are many parents who give their kids the message that it would be better to be dead than to be LGBTQ. Not a very good way to raise children. Among LGBTQ adults who accept their identity, date and marry, there are no more suicides than there are among hetero married couples.
The Church has always been unnecessary.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Only by believe in your heart and conffesing that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins you can be saved.
Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
> Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it, will not save you.
Why do you say this? Catholics don't believe that Catholicism saves them.