Hearthstone Pro Tries to Guess if a Yu-Gi-Oh! Card is Banned! ft.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
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Yata Bad card true he's very oppressive No he's weak 200 atk! Are you sure what about spirit reaper? Still weak! 😂
When you were going over Cyber Stein you didn't mention Cyber End Dragon which is even better than Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon.
Last Turn is banned because lazy employees ain't now way.
The amount of ads in this video is so cringe
Sad that Chaos Emp Dragon wasnt on list! Fav combo wit sangan or WBF. Special summon dragon wipe board then search yata then win
We need to start checking the statement, “the more word the stronger the card is” when historically the cards with less text have been the most powerful.
"Draw 2 cards" 😂
_The_ strongest cards have few words, but it might still be correct to say that power ∝ amount of text in general. (a ∝ b means "a is directly proportional to b")
Tbh that argument only holds up if you analyze cards in a vacuum and not as part of a deck engine, we've already seen very powerful but unsearchable or 1 off cards be dropped in favor of more modern, versatile, '3 effects' engine cards. Draw and Handrips are the most resilient simply because card economy rules YGO.
Not to mention that Konami has banned cards, and then printed a weaker version with a paragraph of restrictions. Sometimes more text is worse.
Usually the aditional text is restriction or "once per turn" clauses.
The Rarran logic loop causes a lot of misunderstandings when evaluating a card:
Reads card -> translates to effect on hearthstone -> subconsciously attaches a mana cost to said effect that Yugioh does not have -> compares to other tcg that also has cost -> finally returns to evaluation of card with all that extra baggage -> gets wrong answer
Well he generally doesn't really consider the yugioh non mana system. It's hard to see someone not adjusting to a different card game. Yugioh is complex, but those cards were universally easy to understand. Confiscating ripping a card and card knowledge would be good in almost any game. But considering how fast the game is and therefore how a little bit of knowledge turns a game around should've been enough info. But yeah you have to connect the dots in your head.
@@dsamurai4725I can imagine someone seeing it the other way around - if you play modern YGO for a few weeks like Rarran did, and you see a whole slew of cards that win the game by themselves, maybe you think a one-for-one trade that gives the bonus of hand knowledge isn’t nearly as impactful as normal summoning Snake Eye Ash?
Players new to YGO (particularly on Master Duel) tend to really overvalue engine cards, since their initial impression is “I need to resolve my craziest possible combo because that means I’m almost guaranteed to win the game”. It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking it’s better to open 5 cards that combo together and set up a near-unbeatable field full of boss monsters, than opening a lower-ceiling 1-2 card combo alongside a card like this which lets you remove a card capable of preventing/nullifying your combo and removing almost all guesswork from the opponents attempt to out your field due to hand knowledge.
@@utopia19876 I was baffled when he said confiscation would be good in Hearthstone, as if to say its not 10x better in a game where everything costs 0 mana
@@utopia19876 Bch he hates YGH and doesn't care about ygh and thinks it is a stupid game.
@@noprisoners8621 I dont think its just bias. It seems like he is generally not really into card games and balancing.
Cimo not explaining Reasoning is funny, Rarran talked himself into thinking the opponent is the one that mills and that you could use Reasoning as a side deck card to mill out your opponent's deck
Catapult turtle was not just an early card:
Catapult Turtle was in the MAIN CHARACTER'S DECK in the anime and it was in fact the star of one of the most hilariously ridiculous duels of all time when Gaia the Dragon Champion was catapulted by the turtle into Castle of Dark Illusions' flotation ring so it fell on top of the opponent's monsters, destroying them all and causing enough battle damage to end the duel in the protagonist's favor in one of the most ridiculous duels in the entire anime's history.
So it was shown off to everyone and somehow the real version of the card is even more busted than it was in the anime, which is not often the case.
Or yugis dual with mai where he just catapults Mai’s monsters for some reason
@@bananaslamma35 i wouldn't call the real version of the card busted, he just happened to have a dumb interaction with Magical Scientist and other similar non-once per turn clause effects. It's not Catapult Turtle's fault Konami didn't realize what they had done when they made Magical Scientist (as a common no less).
@@williamcronshaw5262 Well, no, in this case you absolutely can call Catapult Turtle busted because its effect had to be nerfed with an errata because it was an inherently problematic effect, and there's been a ton of different ways to swarm the field with monsters that would result in a ton of different FTKs if old Catapult Turtle still existed.
In YGO that effect is just too insane to be allowed to exist, since it's possible to basically summon infinite monsters if you set up your deck to do that.
@@bananaslamma35Even the Errata wasn't enough as all you have to go is summon a monster with 16000 ATK to win... Which has become surprisingly more achievable as time has gone by.
another reason why Trunade is banned is because it doesn't destroy... and there are a lot of cards that prevent destruction, but there's almost nothing good to prevent bouncing of cards to hand...
That's probably the biggest reason why people want it back. I would kill for it as an answer to runick stun. Also as an answer to lab that they can't set roll back cl2 with traptrick/lady, but situations like that do have it feel more unfair.
Not only does Giant Trunade bounce back your SOPT effects, but it also bounces your floodgates like Summon Limit so you can play unrestricted…
The fact it didn't destroy stuff became more relevant when Stardust Dragon was released so you could get rid of backrow and run it over with a stronger monster. The fact it cleared the way for you to push for lethal damage back in the day made it a worse albeit still really good second Heavy Storm for that purpose. Being able to bounce floodgates in case you need to use them again became more relevant as older floodgates became more exploitable and newer floodgates got released.
@@shawnjavery the problem is that it can still allow you to abuse your own cards, I think the best design would be to make it only hit the opponent's board and maybe add a restriction or activation condition
@@rajkanishu yeah it does dumb stuff. Lines like s/t ash blossom off of poplar then bounce with trunade would certainly come up and feel awful when done. But I don't think there's any consistent way to abuse it, and I really do think a way to deal with runick stun would be nice for the format.
Fun fact if you get the yata lock in any yugioh game the opponent will surrender and you will get a alternate win screen saying they gave up due to the yata lock
Yeah, that was an actual achievement in old Tag Force games
@@filiplucic also legacy of the duelist or yugioh gx duel academy on gba in fact you get a bonus of dp if you do it in that game
This is funnier when you realize it's a flawed system. There are situations where you pull off Yata Lock but don't have enough cards in your deck to kill your opponent with Yata but the computer will still surrender regardless.
Yeah, the Chaos Emperor Dragon and Sangan/Witch of the Black Forest combo is really unfair when done right!
@chimmyinfernape9189 i thought it didnt apply for gx duel academy as i tried it way back but guess im wrong
Yata Garasu was literally part of the first ever ban list, 1 of only 4 monster cards.
The “Yata lock” specifically consisted of Chaos Emperor dragon nuking board and then playing Yata for the win.
Yeah I'm surprised he didn't mention CED or any of the previously mentioned handripping cards when discussing Yata, though I can understand why since the more cards he knows about the less can be shown to him in future videos of this kind
If you start your turn with Sangan or Witch of the Black Forest on the field (or find a way to special summon them, but that's not something you can do in old Yu-Gi-Oh (and maybe Witch was banned at that time)) CED wins on the spot.
Otherwise you can normal summon Sangan, special summon CED, activate CED and search for Yata, hoping that the 1 draw you allow your opponent to have doesn't stop Yata
@@laytonjr6601Witch couldn’t have been banned because Yata was part of the first list to ban cards
Yeah there was a wild amount of context missing from the Yata Lock explanation in this video and it's not just Chaos Emperor Dragon. The era of the Yata Lock was one when there was enough hand disruption in the game to reliably destroy your opponent's hand in a single turn (Confiscation, Forceful Sentry, Delinquent Duo, Drop Off and Don Zaloog which you could run 3 of each, and of course CED), then poke them once with Yata-Garasu and the game was over. I personally double FTK (playing second) Yata-Locked one of my matches at regionals back then; From my perspective it was hilarious, but to my opponent they traveled to regionals just to get locked twice and not get to play the game. It's not like I outplayed him or anything, I just got lucky and there was no possible counter-play.
While TCG theory has evolved a ton over the years, the original release of Yata-Garasu was still after more than a decade of MTG. Plenty of YGO players were MTG veterans, it wasn't just kids trolling each other (not entirely). The Yata-Lock was the best strategy of its era to build around, and it wasn't close.
I don't think Yata was even that strong, it's just such a toxic and unfun mechanic and it feels shit to lose a game over the course of multiple turns where you literally just can't do anything because you can't even draw.
The yata lock to me is better explained as "if u didn't have a card to deal with it the first turn, you will never be able to draw a card to deal with it for the rest of the duel". Also the infernoid catch for reason
I think the biggest thing Rarran doesn't understand about YGO is that tempo doesn't exist since mana doesn't exist. If every card in Hearthstone cost 0 mana, you don't play cards when you don't have to for "tempo". What is important in YGO is the ability to create a board and to break apart opposing boards.
tempo absolutely exists but missing a beatin modern ygo is a death sentence so you dont feel it
but in oldygo it was absolutely a factor, you might've heard the phrase "behind a turn" that is exactly a description of tempo
@@guythat779 Well, in that way, just going 1st is "tempo". How I see it in MTG/ HS, tempo is when you don't want to float or waste mana so you play a "on curve" card inefficiently in a manner that you waste the effect. That never happens in YGO.
@@mudkipmilk idk what the fuck you're on about but yes, going first does let you set the tempo
Tempo in yugioh is the board. Specifically the negates and ending board. The difference is your tempo can interfere with the opponent’s tempo even before they start with a cherry blossom and infinite, or other handtrap. This is why modern yugioh is so fast cause you can essentially stop your opponent from playing.
In old school yugioh tempo was dependent on field presence, both monsters and back row, which would influence the opponent’s next move. The person with more card in the hand and field usually won cause they probably had an out to whatever you came up with. This is why pot was originally banned cause it would probably provide you with the option you were looking for or at least get you closer to drawing that card
@femain1788 that modern ygo analysis was too narrow minded to one playstyle
It's strange that Rarran underevaluated Confiscation so hard when in Hearthstone Theotar was a 4 mana card that allowed you to look at 3 cards in both player's hands and swap them, it was a staple in everything and had to be nerfed twice to be considered balanced. Very similar in effect to Confiscation, so I don't know why he thought it was bad
Worst case scenario, he only had that last nerfed version in his mind when evaluating Confiscation.
The first time I saw someone use Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End to clear both player's hand and board, including their own (pre-errata) Sangan or Witch of the Black Forest to search for Yata and execute the Yata Lock that way, I almost quit card games entirely.
"They hate it just as much, but its legal, so they have to deal with it"
seems like that sentence applies to a lot of things in live 😂😂
Summon limit
Cimo: Do you have a card similar to this in hearthstone?
Rarran: No
Reno hiding behind a barrel
Hahah i was thinking the same
It actually becomes even closer to its effect too if you take Wild format into account. Shudder Shaman can loop Reno Lone Ranger and force your opponent to try playing a 10+ mana battlecry or spell (due to loatheb/bully replays) with only one board spot for the minion
I can't believe Rarran forgot that Reno Jackson Lone Ranger, limiting how many monsters your opponent can summon.
PTSD blanked it from his memories
Reno doesn't limit the summon number but only the board space, it's closer to Kashtira than Summon limit. I guess horreb or prenerf celestial alignment are closer translations
@@aure2549 It doesn't technically but it does functionally. Unless the minion you play dies you aren't summoning another one.
@@Mythodyn if you have 10 1/1 rush in your hand you can still play them all one by one and trade, but if your opponent played celestial alignment or sword of a thousand truth you can only play one
@@aure2549if you have 10 1/1 rush minions in hand against a Reno player you have bigger worries than being able to play them all
With Stein, Cimo should’ve mentioned the time in late ‘06 when a guy won the finals of a tournament in 3 turns (not just in one of the matches, but across every game of the best-of-three), using Cyber Twin/End Dragon and Limiter Removal
One of the things about Giant Trunade that is good in the modern era, is that it doesn't destroy cards.
That means it bypasses the negation cards that would prevent your cards from being destroyed, because they are not being destroyed and they aren't even being targeted.
Heavy Storm is banned but Harpies Feather Duster is legal. Giant Trunade needs to be banned but a one sided version would be fine
reasoning never saw play in a format-shaping, tier 1 deck
*proceeds to explain magical scientist ftk, the format-shaping tier 1 deck playing 3 reasoning*
And then there's Infernoid just chilling in the back.
@@bl00by_i mean...infernoid did things on release with it...and then just slowly died a sad death from which it has never truly recovered.
@@KuroeNezumi Zoo noid was good, for like a format or two. Then it just vanished..
Noid constantly has felt to me like a deck that should do something, but it's just slightly too restrictive and the payoff has been powercrept a LITTLE, especially their OG boss - but that's a symptom of the GY not being a naughty corner anymore. It takes banishing shit, potentially face down, to really slow some decks.
Tear was an extremely fun tier 0 period, though. If it wasn't for the price I would've played it in paper, because just doing stuff online felt as complex and as fun as everyone says YGO supposedly is.
Scientist FTK was never tier 1, it existed in the same format as Chaos Control (which was tier zero) and was banned at the same time. Scientist was actually banned because he was being played in literally everything, he was a highly searchable 1 card out to basically every situation.
"No other game than Yugioh would have a card like last turn" Well, I feel like old magic (eg: shahrazad) and un-sets (eg: R&D's secret lair) can match it, but yeah, I can't think of any other examples.
Un-sets don't count
They are cowardly, yugioh prints that shit straight to black border
Marvel Snap's Galactus is as close as another card is to Last Turn
@@jamesaditya5254 What does it do?
@@chrisb.2028 basically the game has 3 of these locations you're trying to win by assembling the higher point on at least 2 locations.
Galactus says when it's revealed (played) if it's the only card you have in that location and you're also winning in that location, you win the game. Meaning, the other 2 locations doesn't matter anymore but also Galactus has to win the point check on its own
Magic has Amulet of Quoz.
I hope History of OCG comes back. I was looking forward to it every Friday.
I just wanna throw this in the room for the "can Magical Scientist be returned" argument. Sometimes there are no Banlist tournaments in the OCG, the last one I followed was dominated by tear with Magical Scientist, the runner up was Magical Scientist FTK, and there was a victory Dragon Deck that won the tournament, but 14/16 Decks played the scientist
I kind of wish Cimo had brought this up in the video, but one of the most busted things you could do with Magical Scientist in modern decks is legitimately just put Xyz and LINK material on the board because even just that much is broken to hell and back. That's exactly what he and Gage were doing during Xyz era in Progression before they decided to Hall of Fame it.
How in the world did victory dragon win?
@@voidbehemoth by attacking for game? No-banlist tournament decks basically play with infinite ressources and 95% consistent combo lines, getting a victory dragon on board is trivial. Setting up the match-win is actually worth it in that format.
@@voidbehemoth
you have 2 chances to outright win the match. while the opponent actually has to win 2 duels.
handtraps exists and stuff.
@@mauer1besides in the OCG the opponent has to accept the surrender.
Rarran: "I hate Yugioh."
Also Rarran: *Keeps coming back for more*
At this point, I wonder if it's more "As a game, I don't like PLAYING it, but the sheer DIFFERENCE is fascinating."
It's a love hate relationship
honestly think this guy's grifting by hate-playing yugioh because he sees that these cross-content videos get more views. he's just pretending to not know how to play to get people to be mad at him not knowing how to play, and then commenting about it. why are we still giving him attention again?
I'd call it morbid curiosity
@@overlyasian3488 Getting people from random other card games to review cards from Hearthstone and vice-versa is one of his main kinds of content. He's done it with YGO, MTG, Pokemon, Runeterra, Slay the Spire, possibly also Lorecana. YGO and MTG just both have very big and very active TH-cam scenes to regularly collab with. It's their job to make content that people enjoy and to both sides' benefit to do these collabs. That's not grifting, that's just running a business.
Surprised Rarran missed Giant Trunade. He put together that it's a must-negate effect or you completely forfeit the ability to interact, and he still went on to say "not banned."
Well, Harpies Feather Duster is not banned and Trunade is a worse version of it (if you don't count the broken upside of returning your own cards to hand)
So is Junk Speeder but that card is still legal.
damn rarran is freaking clueless, even in Hearthstone the confiscation effect would be broken
With magical Scientist you could just tell he was thinking to himself that this was some sort of battle cry or one per turn.
Might go unnoticed but at 35:00 Cimo saying 'I'm giving you the first printing' was super clever. Otherwise Rarran could have picked up on 'fusion deck' and known it was still banned
I do feel like Cimo underrated Reasoning. Like when it was banned Monarch, Kozmo, and Infernoid all abused it really effectively. Nowadays though probably not really all that good.
"It was never tier 1" if you don't count the time it was played at 3 copies in Magical Scientist FTK
In early Yu-Gi-Oh you would play it in any deck with a high level of monsters which weren't specifically level 4 as well. If you were playing 4-6 5 and 6 star monsters and several level three monsters it was worth it to tech into if for no other reason than special summoning was really limited back then, and so any way to get a couple of extra summons in a game was typically worth the slot if it had a reasonable chance of getting something extra onto the board.
I also remember playing it in the synchro era a bit due to all the extra levels of monsters in people's decks (admitted this value decreased as more and more level 4 tuners came into the game)
@@laytonjr6601Magical Scientist FTK was never tier 1 though, it existed in the same format as Chaos Control which was tier zero.
@@williamcronshaw5262It was played in Bloo-D, which was certainly tier 1.
@@TK-sn3rx Magical Scientist was banned by then dude.
I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time Rarran has had to evaluate Last Turn, so it's hilarious if that's the case, that he forgot about it xD
I believe it was "real card or not" type
To be fair, rarran evaluations all kinds of cards of all kinds of card games, so he may be excused for not retaining every single one of them
Yeah I listen to his card reviews a lot when I just need a video to listen to while driving and he has definitely rated several of these cards. Granted as old mate also said he rates so many cards and it was almost certainly ages ago and who's gonna remember cards they see one time after so long. Regardless great video out of 10, keep up the great work both of you
Pretty sure he evaluated Yata Garasu with stevie on his channel already
History of the OCG is my favorite series!
History in general is my favorite series!
An important part of why Yata was so broken is that Chaos emperor dragon + Sangan/Witch was a 2 card combo that won you the game, which might have been be fine if it weren't for the fact that all 3 cards were super meta and played in every deck for other reasons
Do you have any idea how inconsistent that combo was? Yata was meta a whole year before CED was even released.
Not only was Yata infamous, it was the reason we have a banlist at all today, haha
It was an accomplice at best or it would've been banned sooner. Chaos Emperor Dragon was the creator of it.
@@ShiningJudgment666 I mean they were an infamous combo.
@@ShiningJudgment666Chaos Emperor Dragon wasn't on the very first OCG banned list. Yata was.
Last Turn isn't complicated, it's just that Upper Deck was incompetent in handling the early game. The OCG rulings are entirely straightforward and the card is still banned there because it's just straight-up overpowered.
I used to play Yugioh back when it was new and for the first few years. I had two friends that I played with often and one of them told us about the magical scientist combo. So all three of us rolled up to a regional tournament that had about 60 players at the time where none of them had seen this combo before. The judge got called almost every single round and the three of us made it to top three despite being paired against each other a few times. Our games basically revolved around playing rock paper scissors to who would go first and win. It was nearly impossible for the deck to not find all the combo pieces on turn 1 because there was so much draw like pot of greed, graceful charity, reload, card destruction, etc. Definitely one of the most memorable experiences I had as a Yugioh boomer.
I wish Rarran would try Edison format Turbo Duels. He often says it's crazy that YuGiOh cards have no resource cost, so it'd be interesting to see him play a YuGiOh format in which spells actually do require "mana" (Speed Counters) to play.
Rip history of the ocg, wish he atleast told us if it's really gone or not
Oh, didn't even notice it till you pointed it out. Weird how it hasn't been touched in 3 weeks.
Janjo Zone's niche, I suppose.
They did address it on a post. It's getting a soft reboot or something to that effect
@@nykthosacolyte5710 Where? I didn't see one at all
@@Seawolf.Gaminga community post on cimo's channel like 3 weeks ago. but it read more like a soft reboot to jank, not ocg
The funniest thing is that even with the once per turn you can still FTK with the thing. The new Tachyon cards can search Catapult Turtle while getting out a 17k attack Numeron Dragon without using their normal summon.
Raran is my second favorite streamer to see reading yugioh cards. The first dzeef.
Dzeef doesn't read, what are you talking about?
@ThatsKasch when he does, its the best thing ever.
I think there are a few other major factors to consider in Change of Heart's unban, though these concepts would be a little complex for a relative newcomer to the game. From least to most complicated:
1) The card used to be good in the main deck, but in a Turn 3 meta you really dont want to see any "dead" cards in your hand going first, so CoH is relegated to the Side Deck.
2. More cards than ever can dodge the sort of removal Change of Heart is bringing to the table, be it S:P Little Knight (no coincidence Snatch Steal came back right around the time of its printing), I:P Masquerena, or the countless monsters that can trade out for another member of their archetype. Unchained, for example, doesn't even blink at these cards, destroying and replacing themselves in response.
3) Even a few years ago, the card might have been too good going 2nd, as the power of endboards was too concentrated in a few on-field monsters. Even in 2019, Sky Striker would fold to it, decks that ended on CDI or Appo would fold to it, stealing a Dingirsu is crazy. However, considering the power for decks like Tear and Snake-Eyes are concentrated not only in multiple monsters but also monsters in other zones like the GY and S/T, the card isn't so much of a thorough swing.
4. Even more recently, and exemplified by Snake-Eyes, we've seen a shift to decks running not only their one-card starters, but multiple of them, all leading to their main combo or generally a lot of advantage. The ability to rebuild so easily on Turn 3 from a single draw makes going 2nd decks weakers than ever. This invites a higher quality of going 2nd staples - including Change of Heart and adjacent cards like Snatch Steal - than would've been reasonable in the past, especially when they're rarely more than a 2-for-1 (steal a monster with a removal effect).
Talks about why Yata was banned. Doesn't mention CED. That's so weird.
@@DoctorFalchionEspecially considering he went down the Reversal Quiz chain.
Why in the world would you bother explaining that whole meme line and not a comparatively basic setup that people used to actually use for Yata?
He really needs to just go back to History instead of these random inconsistent garbage videos.
The issue with change of heart is that it's a purely going second card and a mediocre one at that, not too deep
@@tehy123 Trying to explain why Change of Heart is a "mediocre one" in 2024 when it was broken for 15-20 years is a complicated thing. Remember that Snatch Steal was made legal for one format in Pendulum era (2014-15) and was so strong that it was immediately re-banned.
Yeah surprised he didn't mention the chaos emperor dragon combo to facilitate yatalock in the first place. It was the first big notorious deck that was legitimately kind of like yugioh now, only it was way back in the early 2000's when there wasn't really ways to stop it since handtraps took a while to be invented. CED was just so dumb pre errata and they didn't really know what they were doing card design wise.
The thing about old school Yu-Gi-Oh! is that the cards were either terrible or broken due to the design not being as refined (like the lack of hard once per turn restrictions)
This is why cards like Harpie's Feather Duster and Change of Heart were only recently unbanned. They have effects that are pretty strong *today* , let alone back in the stone ages when T-setting was considered a pretty normal Turn.
I love how ram ranch has become a community staple. I hope we get more people like him.
He should have shown him Painful Choice.
29:07 Rarran calling Yata-Garasu bad...This man needs to understand the pain of a Yata lock.
Rarran seeing convulsion of nature now: "oh that's cool...."
Rarran seeing convulsion a year ago: "this card makes me want to go play it at my locals. I love this card!"
45:05 correction. Exterio doesn't just have to banish a card. That would be too balanced. Instead it banishes and Mills 1. So it is unlimited S/T negates. Banishing 1 and not milling would be too much like a cost
Most Yu-Gi-Oh card of all, Linear Equation Cannon.
Don't forget the sequel to it: Simultaneous Equation Cannons
The effect:
Banish 1 Fusion Monster and 2 Xyz Monsters with the same Rank from your Extra Deck, whose combined Level and Ranks equal the total number of cards in both players' hands and on the field, then you can apply this effect.
- Return 2 of your banished monsters to the Extra Deck (1 Xyz and 1 Fusion) whose combined Level and Rank equal the Level or Rank of 1 face-up monster your opponent controls, then banish all cards they control.
@@RenAki5You can tell the designers had fun with these cards
We need to keep adding to the last turn documents🤣
Rarran: "in swordsoul I had to do a whole song and dance to get a card out"
Normal summon Mo-Ye is a whole song and dance now?
When handtraps pretty much kill the normal summon mechanic nowadays, definitely.
@@Ticketman99Handtraps target special summons. There's no one that affects a normal summon.
@@sasir2013 You say that now
@@Ticketman99 well... of course. It's the current situation. When else would I say it?
@@sasir2013 is Mo-Ye a normal monster?
Cimo's laugh at "HOW IS THIS GAME STILL ALIVE!" is delightful XDD
Because the anime was cool? I don't know ...
"Is this card stronger than Maxx C?" and yet Maxx C is at 3 and Limit is limited in MD.
22:25 fun fact, trunade came off the list many times, always swapping places with heavy storm (until i beleive, 2011, or 2012, were both would be banned and remain banned to this day)
The Brain control errata is another nonsensical errata. I don't understand why Konami keep ruining old cards
Best use I’ve found for reasoning is cubics as that archetype Thrives on its spells and traps hitting the grave
Its wild how Rarran missed how good hand disruption could be, when Dirty Rat is one of HS "staples" for a looong time and it is so much weaker because it only disrupt combo-based minions and it could backfire when you pull bigboy out, but even after all of that it still used today just for a possibility to disrupt. And here you see whole hand, discard what you like and thats it.
Still a very good and interesting video, just find its kinda funny. I quess dude really not played against thoughtseize in MTG still, sweet summer child doesn't know the frustration (or joy when you doing it) of your cards get sniped for almost no cost :)
- "You can synchro with it.
You can link with it"
- "Ooooohhhh"
That "ooh" of not understanding a single word, hit me 😁
When is the history of the OCG coming back? It was fun to watch. Even though I also like this kind of content. I miss the Cimo and MBT banter about how broken some things were when it came to the history of the game.
While there aren't any spells or ways "look at opponent's entirehand" in a vacuum, there have been minions in hearthstone that can copy your opponents hand, and one of them is cheap enough to be used effectively for "information". Soulthief Azalina and Mindrender Illucia for those wondering. One of them got nerfed hard because it used to swap hands and decks, which with an aggro deck would basically skip your opponents turn after they dumped their hand for a push.
A very important fact to mention about Yata-garasu being banned: It wasn't just his effect that got Yata-garasu banned, but its interaction with a little silly card (who also got unbanned very recently) called Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End. This card says that, by paying 1000 LP, you can send ALL cards in both players hands AND boards to the Graveyard, ideally you'd play this card having something like Sangan on board, so you can search for Yata-garasu. Combine that with Yata-Garasu's effect and you have the real and infamous "Yata lock".
Not only was Chaos Emperor responsible for getting Yata-garasu banned, he was responsible for the fact that there is a ban list to begin with.
Clearly pre errata CED is the most degenerate card ever. Even by today's standards.
Thus it would have catched a ban shortly after even without the yata lock.
As I said in a previous comment, probably what makes Yata not just ban worthy but totally degenerate, is Sangan.
Without Sangan it would have been just a sacky one of, definitely ban worthy, but the fact you can basically play 4 copies of it thanks to Sangan and tomato is just stupid.
Except he wasn't even on the very first OCG banned list that never made it to the TCG. As someone who played back then I hate to tell you, but BLS was better than CED without Yata.
@@williamcronshaw5262 ban worthy doesn't mean the best thing in the format.
Ignition Priority BLS prolly was overall a better card than CED even when the Yata Lock was legal.
Having a bls sticking to your field definitely improves your chances to banish anything on the field which may facilitate your opponent at finding the Yata Lock pieces before you do.
That being said, CED is 100% more ban worthy than BLS.
Imagine you play your game, resources are exchanged, damage is dealt. Then you find yourself in a spot with 10ish cards total on the board+hand and you are close to 3000 lp. CED and you lose on the spot.
Now, I don't like BLS in any ignition priority format either, but CED is insane for the same reason tamer cards such as RoD and Dark Strike Fighter eventually were put righteously on the banlist.
Prio BLS is degenerate but you may cope with it a little bit more.
@@ivanmaterazzo2631 What am I coping with? The op said CED is the reason the banned list exists when he wasn't even on the very first banned list but now you're trying to change the argument. That's the definition of cope.
The banned list exists because around 2004-2005 everyone's deck consisted of the same 37 staples with 3 flex spots. No one card is responsible for the banned list.
@@williamcronshaw5262 have you read my message at all? I haven't touched a single point you brought. I'll make you easier for you:
BLS>CED in a vacuum, CED>BLS in terms of degeneracy. Hope your deficient attention span may COPE better with it.
Cimoo describing the library ftk just sounds like the most yugioh paragraph I've ever heard
The funny thing is that maxx c is legal in master duel but they ban it for every event
That's just because everyone complains about it even though it did nothing wrong. Like the Floowandereze cards that got limited.
@@Greg501-people complaining about the single most powerful card ever printed still somehow being legal in the game?
Man that's crazy.
@@pro711200 No, that slot is reserved for Mystic Mine, today's meta would fold to it, so Konami banned it to sell packs (oh and I guess everyone was complaining about that card too.)
It’s kinda like Max C is an unfair and unfun card for both players.
@@Greg501-a floo player is ok with Maxx "C". Checks out
Fun fact about magical scientist for anyone who didn’t know, the ocg did a couple no banlist (yes every card in the game at 3) tournaments not too long ago, and while ishizu tear won the first one, magical scientist with modern cards all legal is a 1-card ftk using only your extra deck. So it’s literally just scientist, ways to find scientist, and non-engine. It was probably the third best deck at the tournament, after ishizu tear and dragon link victory dragon match-tk (which is a whole other story lol, it won the second tournament)
Here's a fun one. Magical Scientist can summon independent nightingale.
8:58 fun fact about magic: Gitaxian Probe is a one-mana blue spell that was been banned in Modern and Legacy, and restricted in Vintage due to it basically being free, seeing an opponent's hand, and drawing a card
What happened to the history of the ocg?
Isn't it wcq week. MBT was probably busy
@@TheTyranex idk, they usually film weeks in advance, plus he hasn't put out an episode for a while now
@@TheTyranex We haven't had an episode in 3 fucking weeks now.
55:46 unfortunately the convulsion of nature will be sent for cost by reversal quiz, thus flipping the deck back over for the resolution of reversal quiz. This is typically not an issue however as there are cards like feather of the phoenix that can be played to stack the deck while in its face-down state, or the player has memorized their list and gone through all of their monsters at that point and can call spell with 100% confidence.
This gives me Ruxin’s “does this player know about” series vibes.
Confiscation = theo but you get to see your opponent's whole hand. When Rarran went through his thought process, I already know this vid was gonna be fire.
"Does tempo really matter in YGO?" My brother in christ, the games last an average of 1 turn. It's entirely tempo-based.
But equally... If there is only one turn, there is no tempo at all. You got from zero to winning, there is no getting ahead.
That's not what "Tempo" means in other card games. "Tempo" is basically purposefully trying to slow the game down and deny your opponents resources so much that the smallest advantage you can get will win you the game over the course of, like, 10-20 turns
@@tigerguy529 That is most definitely not what tempo is. I've been playing Magic for almost 20 years, won Nats in Canada in 2008 and was on the PT for 3 years. Tempo is a nebulous term, often referring to a combination of time and resources. If you present a threat that costs your opponent more resources than you've spent to create it, you have gained a tempo advantage. If you and your opponent do the exact same thing but you're the first to do it, you have a tempo advantage. Playing first is a tempo advantage, as you're the first to be able to take advantage of resources and present threats. YGO typically only lasting until a player's second turn means whatever the first turn player is doing is usually an extremely large tempo push and each turn has tempo swinging wildly between players.
I'm not buying it. Tempo is UW Spirits, not every deck being Storm with Pyro Ascension in the yard and 5 mana to start the game.
17:00 change of heart is like threaten effects in magic. I take youre guy, he gains haste, attack you with it, sacrifice it for value, go.
Loving Rarran’s visits to the yu-gi-oh community
Im surprised when bringing up the yata lock, he didnt talk about chaos emporor dragon envoy of the end combo, to discard your opponents entire hand and wipe out the field and then use your sangan or witch of the black forest that just died to search yata garasu, and force the lock
You can still technically do the lock though not with Chaos Emperor Dragon.
can we get some sort of official announcement on the status of the history of the ocg?
I am surprised rarran didnt get the first card when loatheb was so strong for so long and theothar was nerffed twice
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but regarding Alex's story about Reversal Quiz FTK: Isn't that deck like, nowadays, considered to be one of the absolute best decks in GOAT format? And the only reason why you hardly see it is because most of the playerbase has almost entirely collectively agreed to not play it?
Problem is because people refuse to play it, we can't see a lot of results, but from what I've seen in videos from some people who are knowledgeable about GOAT format, they think it's the best janky deck, but not tier 1. It's still hard to say, since unlike modern formats where you spend 1000$ on a deck and travel half the country, continent or even world so you're absolutely prioritising winning stakes are lower for GOAT. Still, I think more people would play it if it was tier 1
@@nnnp634 Library FTK doesn't require reversal quiz to win, it's just the best wincon. Other common wincons when the deck was being refined were life equalizer+blasting the ruins (double upstart goblin gets your opponent to 10k) or triple blasting the ruins. Reversal Quiz OTK was a different (jank) combo deck entirely that revolved much more heavily around drawing a way to reduce your life points (wall of revealing light/solemn judgement), reversal quiz with a way to know the top card (spellbook organization, a feather of phoenix), and a burn spell like fuhma shuriken or ring of destruction. FWIW, I do think Library FTK is a strong deck (like you said, the strongest jank deck), and with enough reps and the right player, it might really be the best deck as someone who played goat format when it was the official format and has kept up with it a bit. However, back then, with information not travelling nearly as fast and formats lasting 3 months at a time, I don't think the deck was better than the "standard" style decks (goat/chaos, reasoning gate, etc.) given how much easier and closer to the previous formats those decks were to pilot.
Every single time I hear a Yu-Gi-Oh! player say "back in the day" all I hear is Cheese delivering a dissertation about how there ain't no back in the day.
What was the logic behind showing the old versions of these cards without PSCT?
oh man... the scientist turtle ftk, this takes me back to places i dont wanna be taken
As a quick follow-up, Last Tuen is in Yu-Gi-Oh link evolution, so there is a way to test some of the more modern cards with it in an official capacity if you ever want to know how a card is supposed to work with it. ( highly recommend trying that sometime since the game was supposed to have every card printed which means they had to include it.)
It's not even a complicated card, it's just that Upper Deck was really bad at curating the game since they didn't pay any attention to grammar of cards and seemingly had no unified judge system. In the OCG the rulings site, the section for Last Turn is 3 sentences because the card is actually very straightforward. It's still banned in the OCG because it's overpowered.
@@Zetact_"the card is very straightforward" well then, can you errata the card with PSCT to make it straitforward in English too?
@@laytonjr6601 "You can activate this card during your opponent's turn while your LP are 1000 or less. Select 1 monster you control and send all other cards on both players' fields and in their hands to the GY. After that, your opponent Special Summons 1 monster from their deck in face-up attack position and immediately attacks your selected monster (neither player can take battle damage from this battle). During the end phase, if only one player controls a monster, that player wins the duel. Otherwise, the result is a draw."
This is just the OCG text and it's entirely straightforward. Literally all you have to change other than some weird PSCT phrasing is point out that the win condition is controlling "a" monster, not specifically "the" monster summoned.
9:22 To answer this, there's a small technical "yes" to it. Never played Yu-Gi-Oh btw. "Reno, Lone Ranger" has the ability to limit the enemy board to one space for a turn. If you play a Minion, no other minion can be played on the board. If you have a Spell that summons a Minion, that one Minion will take up the space. While you can play as many cards as you want (depending on your mana/resources), if that one board space if filled up by a Minion you can no longer play another unless you kill that minion yourself to free up that space.
Hold on, Magical Scientist(im a dumb dumb, he cant get Ultimate, use Stein instead), summon Ultimate Dragon, and laugh at you opponent that probably doesnt have a monster that can beat it in a straight fight under last turn
Ultimate is too high level for that to work; Magical Scientist can only summon ≤ lvl 6 iirc.
@@delta3244 right, forgot, take Stein then, same result
Opponent takes spirit reaper, games ends as a draw
So interestingly, Reversal quiz OTK (not the Ftk) version, wasnt that bad in 2014 after the dragon ruler bans/limits, you didnt run royal magical library, instead u ran a ton of stall cards, letting your opponent hit u to lower your life points and using battle fader/swift scarecrow and kuriphoton, to help lower your life points and damage yourself
then using cards like upstart goblin combined with your life point loss you either allowed or inflicted yourself you would hope for escape and draw like 4 cards. So you could churn through your deck until you found your 3 card combo (u would run fuma shurikan since it dealt 700 instead of 500).
Now the SUPER interesting part is, i had just started replaying yugioh around 2014, i played fire kings for a few months until i decided to try something new. So i built a reversal quiz OTK deck, the problem was (looking back now) my reversal quizes (along with my pidgeonholding book of spells) were all PRE-errata, so i played an 8 round Regional event with reversal quiz OTK where i would have to guess the top card of my OPPONENTS deck to pull of the combo. And since non of the judges knew the card or the combo and non of the players did either, no one noticed. I went 5-3 where i lost LAST round vs spellbooks, having to RNG call the top card in game 3, in time, a judge standing next to me and everyone laughing at the craziness of the situation and im counting his grave tryna decide whether to call spell or monster, i end up calling spell, and this muther fucker flips solemn warning that he sided in to take damage and stop a random battle fader.
Wheres history of the OCG? :C
Dead
The Reno Hero card would be an example of a card in hearthstone sort of making a summon limit. Although ofc there's plenty of other stuff around that card (most importantly that Reno is probably the only card you're playing.)
So yeah, imagine playing your entire hand in 1 turn in hearthstone. and then dumping a 0 mana Reno at the end just for good measure
interesting that you didnt explain to him exactly why yata was banned, reiterating the power of hand rip cards and his beloved partner in crime CED
Even without CED and hand rip as pells Yata would have been banned, old Yu-Gi-Oh was essentially a battle of attrition, one or both players eventually ran out of cards.
4:50 But yes, there is Illucia, which used to read: "Change decks and hands with your opponent for a turn." now it only reads "Copy your opponents hand for a turn." and there is also Azalina Soulthief: "Copy your opponent's hand"
9:23 Wrong again. Reno Lone Ranger: "if your deck started without dublicates, remove all enemy minions. Your opponent can only Control one minion."
I recommend trying to get Nikachu, as an MTG competitive player, to do this also!
There was an annoying little goblin in my old friend group who used to always force a draw using Last Turn and Wall of Illusion. Wall of Illusion has an effect that any monster that attacks it is then sent back to the owner's hand, so even if you destroyed it, there would be no monster remaining on the field, forcing a draw every time
"Is there something like this in Hearthstone that limits how much can be summoned?"
Rarran: no.
WHAT YOU MEAN NO? RENO IS ONE OF THE MOST HATED CARDS NOWDAYS!!
21:04 what you all came to hear
22:00 my favourite combo in old Yu-Gi-Oh was to bounce Premature Burial.
Honestly, Giant Trunade doesn't have a reason to be banned anymore, modern Yu-Gi-Oh is now writing Once per turn on every of it's card. And to these days the old FTKs wouldn't be viable anymore
Only if they ban all other floodgates. Imagine, Skill Drain? lol no. Necrovalley? Nec-no-for me. The power to get your own floodgates off the field is also powerful.
But I mean, they really should just ban every single floodgate.
@@ethon6668 trunade would be way more used to out floodgates then to abuse your own floodgates
@@RanDoomPuff Harpies Feather Duster already does that, and it's at least legal. Giant Trunade being highly functional with multiple uses, including turning your own floodgates off, is why it's banned.
@@ethon6668 noone would side trunade to out their own floodgates because thats shit. If youre relying on a unsearchable card to out your own floodgate youre doing something very wrong.
@RanDoomPuff It would be Harpie's second copy. And if you have Field or Continuous spells with, on activation effects, you can fire them again
My feels on why this games survived things that would kill actual games is that there werent that many stablished games
I miss history of yugioh :(
As someone who has never played yugioh hearing some of these combos described are the best parts of these vids
Tbf Stein didn't do pretty much anything until Spright came out and could like bin it and reborn it with Elf to avoid the 2 lock. SHS (for the like 2 weeks it was allowed to exist) could also search it with Gigant X and pend summon it but that was more of a meme combo than anything. Spright is definitely the big reason it got shot again.
Stein has been completely broken at multiple points in Yugioh's history
@@JakeFish5058 The card was unbanned in 2019 and did LITERALLY NOTHING until you could consistently search him out of the deck like 3 years later.
@@amethonys2798 correct
@@amethonys2798 so what you're saying is that having access to stein every game makes the card broken? Bc that's what spright had over other deck, they could access it every game.
In other words, the card is broken but not consistent enough to see play. It couldn't be searched and cheated out. But the moment you could use the card consistiently it was banned.
You got it the other way around, when Cyber Stein got banned Elf was already banned for a few months. Stein access with Spright was not that much played, it was a bit too gimmicky.
Stein was indeed banned in the same list that hit SHS, because that deck was really abusing it. Not everyone played it but it was not really a gimmicky variant. And since the card was always broken by designed, having a good deck that could consistently get it out was a good way to get rid of it definitely.
Last Turn is not a difficult card to understand if you properly follow the card's instructions. Moreover, it results in really fun and interesting situations depending on what monster your opponent gets.
You select one monster, then send all cards in both players hands and fields except the selected monster to the grave. That is the entire resolution of Last Turn. After that, a special battle phase is conducted which determines the victory check at the end phase. The special battle phase is just one in that occurs in addition to the turn player's normal battle phase. What people often get wrong is that the selected monsters are the only relevant monsters with the victory check at the end.
He’s right, Yata Garasu is bad
It's not that it's bad. Skipping an opponent's Draw Phase is powerful. It's just a win more card now at best because if you're in a game state to where you can Yata-Lock your opponent, you've likely already won the game.
@@ShiningJudgment666 also if you drop a draw phase skip card in your opponent's turn (like time seal), you'll have to wait until their next draw phase (so turn 4 if you went first and played it turn 2) which is omega slow
@@kechitiabderrahmane6357 Time Seal would probably be a bit busted if it were a Spell Card but again, it could also have the modern day Yata-Garasu issue where it would just become win more.
@@ShiningJudgment666 I don't think so, if it was like that it would basically bea worse version of "shuffle 1 random card from your opponent's hand to the deck", considering decks are leaning to 1/2 cards combos this type of effects will just tickle them
If it shows you your opponent's hand as well tho it's a different story
Some context on Last Turn: I had a record of 96-13 playing Last Turn / Jowgen in sanctioned events. The major reasons that it wasn't more popular is because it required 2x Morphing Jar to really be able to pull off consistently and that was an incredibly rare and expensive card at the time, which is why a lot of folks didn't play it. It was also extremely complicated to pilot, especially if you didn't win on turn 1 in the Yata/CED meta that was going on at the time.
please bring history of ocg back next week
As a yugi boomer who came back to the game during covid, I was surprised about Giant Trunade was on the banlist. When it came out, it could be annoying to have it played on you, but not nearly as bad as Heavy Storm or Duster. And then learned about the OTKs and other scenarios and realized how good the could would be now
Same I totally blanked on why bouncing your own stuff was broken until I saw the crazy loops the Ice Barrier Tiger and the Gishki Ritual pulled off in the video games.
@@SeaHorseOfTH-cam Being able to get around Stardust Dragon and run it over and push for lethal unhindered was great but yeah, being able to bounce broken continuous stuff that didn't have any sort of once per turn restriction was busted. Upon release the game was slow enough that you didn't really benefit by using it.
Also, bouncing equip cards like Snatch Steal and Premature Burial to use again.
@@MrLeemurman Doesn't work like that with Snatch Steal. If Snatch Steal's removed from the field, the monster you've taken returns to your opponent.
"I almost wish I didn't start with current YGO"
THIS. No one shoule start with modern right away. Us long time players started simple and worked our way up slowly, and everyone should have the same experience. That's why a lot of new players including Rarran are turned off right away, they don't even know what's happening most of the time.
I honestly think that's true for all the major trading card games. Shit gets whacky the longer it's out.
I played a lot of old ygo (like pre 2008 or so) and I still have no idea whats happening in modern. I dont think it helps.