A friend and i were joking that clash should be considered a curse then realized it's worse because it doesn't trigger the curse bonus effects like the relic that gives str for every curse
It's crazy learning just how bad it sucks because Clash actually kind of carried me in my first ever run. Of course that's mainly because it was before ascension and Ascender's Bane is the thing that makes Clash suck so consistently.
@@mofire5674 it's underrated, not good Even at a20 it can sometimes be decent just to chunk thru early elites if you don't get anything else It's still awful but creators are like, NEVER willing to take it
@@d.s.alcoda There are several Baalorlord A20 videos where he takes it and kills heart, so I'd unfortunately have to disagree. It does have applications and good players will know when that is.
The pressure points question was so dirty lol. I feel like mentioning that it bypasses block but not that it is stopped by artefact is such a bait. I respect how content pilled both of them are
yea and i dont even agree with frost, like yes its not the best card to put in just any build, but if you can get 2 or 3 of them, make your deck extremelly small and have a vault it can actually go really hard.
@@justacryptid4687 that's false: scry, calm, empty mind, any card draw and any card/relic that relies on not playing attacks work really well with it, You even have some neutral cards that it also really loves. I'v beaten the heart a number of times with it.
@@justacryptid4687 yea and i have won with decks that use preasure point and vault that just win before any enemy can do anything about it. even on A20
Rarran absolutely got robbed on the Pressure Point question with how much Frost gassed it up in panic, but then handed him and the believers the win at the end so... Happy Ending!
I mean, I just grab claws on floor 1 and ignore them later if I don't have at least 2-3. They're serviceable later on but if you get enough of them, they go extremely hard
As a watcher main, I've never seen that last card. I imagine a lot of people haven't because who is deranged enough to take wish and then use it for plated armor!
Another good aspect of TOTT that no-one mentions is that it's draw-neutral (doesn't increase the number of cards you have in your hand) each turn. It therefore doesn't have anti-synergy with other draw-cards (since there's a handsize limit). This is particularly important for Draw-to-X effects like Expertise.
Yeah but like you shouldn't have actively negative cards in your deck for most of the game, like Decay and Normalcy you cut as soon as you're able and you can also just use one of the silent's billion other discard cards like Survivor, Acrobatics etc.
@@tomekk.1889 the other %20 it's amazing, watcher really loves strength and dex, Wallop and Just Lucky procs both strength and dex, wrath doubles the damage from strength, Halt gets double block from dex, vulnerable stacks with strength and wrath etc.
@@Ghorda9wallop doesn't actually proc of dex, only of strength. A good rule of thumb is if it gets blocked by panic button it interacts with dex, and wallop doesn't get blocked by panic button.
Rampage is like, exactly average You take it sometimes just for a bit of early numeric value, and then later its just whatever that you might play if you dont draw better damage for the turn It gets memed on because it SEEMS like an epic build defining card that fails to do that
I disagree, rampage wins 1/3 to about 1/5 of the run mostly by itself, which allows you to skip on other strong early game cards you would not want later but would have needed to take otherwise. This usually means you end up with stronger deck because you were offered a rampage. Card is nuts. Great early because it wins fights, great late because your deck is more optimized because of it. Exact same reason why glass knife is so good.
Frost had said before that if there are more "mark" cards pressure point will be very good. Also rampage is underratted imo. I beieve that it is above average
In a vacuum i think pressure points is better than rampage as it bypasses block, scales with copies of itself and you may choose to divide the damage among more targets if you so choose, i believe it would be insane in a silent deck by itself but in a watcher deck it really makes no fucking sense. That said, i also think rampage is really bad and the reasons given here are bullshit as "it scales with strength and vulnerable" would also describe a basic strike, it only gets a pass because ironclad is weak overall and his lack of deckbuilding potential is supplemented by healing every floor.
I had a run where Talk to the Hand + Tantrum (+ Fear no evil + Rushdown infinite) was my blocking solution, and Pressure Points was an excellent spiker solution for me. However, even with Wave of the Hand to absolutely demolish enemy artifact, Pressure Points still felt weak as an attack. I think the problem is just that the Watcher's primary draw/energy strategy (rushdown + stance dancing) involves better damage cards, and other methods (study/evaluate + deva/deus/collect) are kinda meh. Scrawl sortof works, but Scrawl + Stance powers + Stance dancing is soooo much better.
Another difference between heathstone and slay the spire people.have to remember is that in hearthstone you keep your hand at the end of the turn so a draw 1 discard 1 is much more valuable to cycke for your gg card in hearthstone while in spire you focus on cycling deck to get best dmg per turn while minimizing damage taken with armor.
Judgements I disagree on: Tools of the trade: Good : Extra draw at least 2 turns from now, 0 cost power on upgrade meaning pellets synergy is high, already a very high synergy due to discard cards with the Silent Bad: Draw negative 1 turn, 1 turn draw Neutral, -1 Energy if not upgraded, if run is lucky on removable events it becomes worse I think its still a really good card, just for the fact that the Silent will almost always want to have discard synergy or at least pellets on them. Cards like eviscerate, sneaky strike, Reflex and tactitian as well as kite, tingsha and bandage are all REALLY good with this card because of the innate ability to discard. I think Rarran was done dirty on this one since his explanation was almost flawless. Pressure points: You really robbed him. He gave you every bit of explanation completely right and then ending off with "its leaning towards bad" This is a competition to "good" or "bad" and if he says "leaning bad" then its definitely not falling into the good category. (Also Alpha is worse, your last watcher win with pressure points showed how good it is. Either you take at least one omniscience and more draw +energy with watcher to make up for Alpha OR you take extra pps who are stacking faster than an Alpha will in single target fights and if played smart in AoEs as well) Rampage: Good: Ramp up for Bosses, decent scaling with small decks either by nature of by exhaust Bad: Fucking sucks for elites in A2-4, awful in AoE, NEEDS to attack to scale meaning if you draw this on a bad turn it wont scale at all for a whole rotation Very dependant on deck, if we go by the way you tried to make this consistent of in "will I play this more often than not?" then its still a 50/50. Its a glorified Strike on a character that likes to play aggressively, but has better options available as well as strength scaling most of the time anyway. Either answer is good here Rarran should've won this challenge 8-2
I would say Tools of the Trade would be decent even in other characters’ decks simply for giving you more draw and hand control. The fact that Silent has some good discard synergy is icing on the cake.
it's not that hard to play omega on turn two or three, the great thing about it is that you don't ever need to attack and just use that energy to draw cards and block, scry even helps you get it sooner rather than later
I would say the main consideration not brought up in the video is that Silent has a sick turn 1 so this card can make the rest of ur turns slightly better. That said if you draw it literally any other turn it feels garbage because you might be taking 20 and would rather be doing damage/blocking. However you would much rather be picking better rares/more synergistic cards. If it was a card you just got for free without using a card reward it would be much better, but the fact you mostly see it as a boss reward just makes it so much worse
I stand with my boy Rarran as well. He was right on all three of those cards and despite pressure points being a meme card, it can get there against bosses. Rampage is a feelsbad card for ironclad. Only good if you got nothing better for the whole first act.
Tools of the trade: Good : Extra draw at least 2 turns from now, 0 cost power on upgrade meaning pellets synergy is high, already a very high synergy due to discard cards with the Silent Bad: Draw negative 1 turn, 1 turn draw Neutral, -1 Energy if not upgraded, if run is lucky on removable events it becomes worse The main issue with tools of the trade is that the Silent has Acrobatics and Backflip which makes Tools of the trade superfluous and not really worth adding to your deck. If you don't get Acrobatics then yes Tools is decent but most of the time you would rather have Acrobatics because of the more immediate effect (and it is usually easier to find or cheaper to buy)
Wraith form is much more Swords of Revealing Light than it is Waboku But yeah I think he overestimates the value of dealing damage in card games with meaningful ability to interact on your opponent's turn
Fact is a card like wraith Form did exist I HS. It was thet mage spell that means you only take 1 damage until your next turn and it was played in every mage deck. Also Ice Block.
I mean to some extent an effect like this has caused issues in the past, with a card like One Day of Peace. Obviously not applicable anymore, but to be fair we don't have any true conversion of this effect. The combination of just being able to safely pass several turns that can't be removed in an environment where it can't be negated is a relevant difference.
Note that for slay the spire since games aren't independent, drawn wr has a similar bias to played wr, because catch up cards will have a lower wr, and cards that you only pick while winning will have a higher wr.
As someone not great at Slay the Spire, it amuses me to no end that the only Watcher run I’ve managed to complete was just stuffing my deck with nothing but the worst card they have lmao (pressure points)
Runic pyramid and X cost cards also work great with recycle, you can recycle an X card to double your current energy or recycle a high cost card to fuel an X card
That's the beauty of this game: It feel so good, when you have a deck set up, that supports those niche cards and makes them absolutely erase everything in an instant.
Chat saying hyperbeam is bad isn't understanding that the focus loss doesn't matter if the enemies are dead. Yeah if it's the literal start of the fight and the enemies have like 100 HP don't use it. But if everything's at 26/etc or less, you no longer need focus, the fight is done.
Heavy blade is bad? It carried me pretty damn hard in an ironclad run this morning, the build basically was a very small deck running a lot of block, draw and strength buffs, and I just cycled until I could heavy blade for like 50+ damage. I'm not saying it's the best, top tiered ironclad attack, but it's bare minimum C tier.
That was my thought too. I guess he's rating based on Ascension 20, but I'd bet the majority of StS players don't go above A5 or even less, myself included. I play games to have fun, not bash my head against the wall, and on my runs, Heavy Blade is awesome.
Wtf were you on when you were shilling Rampage lol? You haven't taken that shit once and it's definitely below rate, which is what you would classify as a bad card here. Rarran got scammed
I think the problem with rating if a card is good or bad is that you build your deck as you play, and wont always be shown a card you're looking for. Ex:You said thousand cuts was bad because something like eviserate might be better more often, but thousand cuts is a card that can help solve the problem of "how do I do enough damage to kill enemies" and scales well with things silent already wants to do, but you dont need to take it if your deck already has a way to kill the enemies effectively. Once you've added cards that solve "how do I do damage" you dont really want to add more attacks or damage card even if they might be better than cards already in your deck
Don't be. The take here is really bad. For example, yes the Wraith for is really good...IF you can kill the opponents within 2-3 turns and you may sacrifice a good damage turn to play it. Meanwhile, tools of the trade that was deemed bad, goes positive by second round, if upgraded you start with it, so you gain the benefits as soon as possible and synergies with half the Silent card pool. Also notice that they didn't take cards that are good or bad in any situation. Like, why not judge Adrenaline? Because the answer is straight and you can't bs your way into saying it's bad.
"Meanwhile, tools of the trade that was deemed bad, goes positive by second round, if upgraded you start with it, so you gain the benefits as soon as possible and synergies with half the Silent card pool." I think Tools is decent the main issue is that Acrobatics is great and basically does what Tools does but front loaded which is usually better and Acrobatics has a lower rarity so you are more likely to see it. Of course if you don't get offered Acrobatics then Tools of the Trade gets a lot more appealing
Today's daily climb was a relicpilled Watcher run. I ended up with an alpha build (not pure alpha but that was my wincon) and cleared the Time Keeper in five turns. That was my second victory with an alpha-focused deck, out of four Watcher victories. It also used Deva Form, two Deus Ex Machinas, and two Wishes, which I used for money in almost every fight. Edit: Just now won another Watcher run using a "hard Alpha" deck - as in, alpha was literally the only way to do damage. I removed every Strike and Eruption; my only attack was Cut Through Fate, and that was just for the scry. Early on I picked up the Prismatic Shard, which definitely helped - Armaments, Burning Pact, and Exhume from the Ironclad all helped shore up the deck in different ways, but the less said about the vast gulf between how useful I thought Machine Learning and Stack would be and how little I actually played them, the better for my pride. Still, can't complain about a 3 damage, 6 turn Watcher fight in which it only got off one attack in phase 2. Almost makes me wish I'd collected the keys and gone up against the Heart, although if I'm being honest I was not confident I could have done without resting as often as I did (even if the results of the final battle clearly say I could have). And I certainly could have passed up on one of the chest relics; I don't think Unceasing Top ever triggered. Edit 2: Unceasing Top was actually an Elite drop. I would have had to pass up on Mango, and although that wouldn't have lost me the run had I done everything else the same, I definitely wouldn't have spent 10 of my last 11 health on Sensory Stone, and the Dark Shackles I got out of that may have made all the difference on turn 2 of the boss. I also definitely couldn't have even reached Act 3 without Anchor, so I would have had to pass up on Mercury Hourglass in Act 1... most fights lasted three or four turns at most, but I don't know if that damage would have still made the difference tipping an important enemy into lethal. So maybe I wouldn't have been able to reach Act 4 anyway. On the other hand, if this is a revisionist history anyway, I might go back and scrub away some obvious piloting errors that cost me a potion I didn't need to spend in the Act 1 boss fight, and who knows what knock-on effects that would have had. Whatever. Edit 3: Wait, I'm so stupid. If I'd remembered I had Unceasing Top, this deck would have been even more unstoppable. I probably could have been popping two turn one Omegas every fight with just a little luck, and then Exhuming the betas on turn 2. You know what they say about hindsight: It makes a hind out of you and sight.
Applying PvP language to static PvE games like that is just weird, yeah. It's like how speedruns for games don't have a meta, they have players getting better at the game and optimizing and finding new tricks. Metagames describe the "game outside the game" where you're picking decks/classes/strategies based on both what is good and what is popular.
Recycle is definitely good for thinning out a deck of cards that are not so good during a certain matchups. I’ve made claw builds bonkers by using recycle to thin the deck out so I could draw claws back to back to back.
Tools of the Trade is bad? Seriously? It's got a lot of synergy with Silent's card pool, makes Hovering Kite reliably proc at the start of every turn, and provides consistent discard, and helps you cycle through your deck consistently faster. It also upgrades to zero cost. I'll accept that it might be somewhat situational, but "bad" is crazy.
You can tell the different mindsets based on the respective game. In hearthstone, you want a strong build identity, in slay the spire, you want flexibility to solve a multitude of problems.
I main Defect and I try to build around all for one with beam cell and go for the eyes because they do well for adding and negating damage, with claw added in there for some nice boss shredding capabilities. Also Recycle and Overclock to keep cycling through my deck to get all for one again. And that’s how I aim most of my runs.
Tools of the Trade beats Acrobatics spam for discard synergy. Acrobatics spam is 1 mana per turn for 1 discard each turn while Tools of the Trade is 1 mana per fight for 1 discard each turn. And it is only 1 card in your deck that removes itself so it doesn't block you from getting cards you want to spend your mana on. it is also only 1 card selection instead of several so it has lower opportunity cost. A 1 mana Power is not bloat, especially upgraded to 0 mana! I'd rank it around 30th percentile of The Silent's Rare cards, I'd only call 15-20th percentile bad... If you are calling everything in the 50th percentile bad then sure it is bad.
Gotta love the heavy misdirection at the start that most of the card ratings are just based off of Jorbs' analysis. Especially since Jorbs has more or less made every card in sts look good at some point in time even when he himself says the use cases for many of them are limited.
Out of curiosity, are you the same frost who brought pepperoni pizzas to an MtG game night at a vegetarian's house in upstate New York in like 2012, 2013?
stupid question. How does a PvE game thqats been out for 6 years and doesn't really do balance patches have a "shifting meta". When things are done the Meta gets solved. just curious
It's fairly complex and the "meta" is largely from people following the top few people's opinions on the game. They play the game at A20 and aim for winstreaks or increase in winrates on certain characters. Their opinions slowly shift over time because they find more consistent strategies and ways to utilise things they didn't before to squeeze out slightly higher winrates.
I got to A20 with the first 3 characters and now I'm climbing with Watcher (A6 rn) and my thoughts on Pressure Points is that it actually does have niche synergies with some Watcher cards. Signature Move, Swivel, Wreath of Flame + Multi-hit Moves like Ragnarok, etc, because it allows you to deal damage while not playing an attack card. Even with those synergies, the frequency of artifact on enemies makes it often a dead card. So I can't disagree with the rating, but it *does* have synergies
I think you should reach out to Snnuy. He has done card ratings with Rarran in the past, but for Legends of Runeterra. I think it would be fun to watch you try and rate some of the LoR cards, especially with your past in League. Though, I understand if you wouldn't want to, especially with the (semi) recent news about Riot not planning to add on to the PvP. I also understand that it can be hard to reach out to other content creators out of the blue. Thanks for considering it at least!
Pressure points has synergies; they just don't exist in the Watcher's kit. So if you are playing custom runs with multicolored decks it becomes a lot better when you can use holograms, rebounds, and headbutts to keep getting it back into your hand. Yeah, in a monopurple it kinda sucks, but even then, have you ever made a draft or sealed deck that was nothing but pressure point? It's actually absurd how well it can do.
I super disagree with the analysis of Tools of the Trade, the first card discussed. Draw/Scry is so beneficial in almost all scenarios. It boils down to take the better card or leave it. Early game, I can see how limited energy makes it less appealing. But it is a super powerful utility, IMO.
Started playing Slay the Spire because of this video. And now having played it too much in the last couple of days I'm finally ready to watch this in its entirety
Another thing that makes Rampage better than Pressure Points is that for Pressure Points the damage increase sticks on the enemy and vanishes when the enemy dies, whereas with Rampage, the damage increase sticks to the card and sticks around for the next enemy (in the same battle)
The only thing that matters in the distinction between Rampage and Pressure Points is that Gremlin Nob and Sentries exist. Rampage works in those fights and Pressure Points doesn't. Act 1 elite fights are crucial for securing relics for the rest of the run. It's the only reason Pressure Points isn't good and Rampage is.
ill never forget the first time i chose wraith form. I didnt realize it was taking dex EVERY turn, thought it was just once for some reason. Really messed that run up obviously. Both, alpha and pressure point, i wanted to work so bad (knowing they werent good) that at various high acesions while moving up, i just got stuborn and went for them until they got me a win lol
I also thought tools of the trade was a good card, and I thought Rampage was bad. I got the other ones. In a world where there are only two answers, "good" and "bad", you should've given him the point for pressure points. whoa...I don't think I've ever seen "live forever" either.
Calling Tools of the Trade a bad card is insane It's power isn't in the draw, it's in the free discard allowing you to reliable build a discard synergy every single term. It also enables Hovering Kite every single turn, making it the single best energy relic in Silent's pool
I remember when I used to think Wraith Form was trash. Granted, I was right, because dealing damage to a random enemy whenever you played a skill wasn't worth the energy cost.
im not pro by any means , but i still dont udnerstaband why tools of trade is a bad card, i mean every turn u draw something that you dont need for that specific turn, so discarding it doesnt loose you anything , but you still draw another card and its a 1 cost power , who doesnt like 1 cost power, the silent also has very good synergies with discard
I think the call on rampage was so scuffed. Frost extolling its virtues while literally almost never taking it in any run. He's like oh, I take this often. I would like to know when the last time rampage appeared in one of the youtube videos was. When was the last time he won a run with this card in his deck lol.
I would argue tools of trade being good since it lets you discard drawn status or curse cards to prevent you from feeling the effects. Situational, yes, but against monsters that give you status effects or if you have a curse (like any of the book curses, which you probably have) then it gets its use. It makes your play more consistent, which is good. The initial observation of it being a negative for the first two turns is certainly valid criticism though.
On thousand cuts. I really like it in nightmare decks. It’s really bad as is. But I recently had a nightmare deck where I got off 6 blurs and 6 thousand cut + then it was a discard block build setting up a wraith form duplication to deal with time keeper. So yeah starting with Pandora’s box is fun
@@blazingbrazen Ah, thanks! I knew ut was Crash related because it sounded like something straight out of Tag Team Racing, which I used to play a lot when I was younger, and that OST is also a banger!
Clash is playable, if you have a zero cost deck and a top. Every card has a place where it's good and a place where it's bad. It depends on your deck and relics.
A friend and i were joking that clash should be considered a curse then realized it's worse because it doesn't trigger the curse bonus effects like the relic that gives str for every curse
It's crazy learning just how bad it sucks because Clash actually kind of carried me in my first ever run.
Of course that's mainly because it was before ascension and Ascender's Bane is the thing that makes Clash suck so consistently.
Clash is slightly underrated tho imo
I'd basically never add a curse, but I WOULD add an early clash to stomp elites sometimes
@@d.s.alcoda Clash ain't underrated, it's decent Act 1 pre A10, however most content creators play at A20 so it shifts the perception.
@@mofire5674 it's underrated, not good
Even at a20 it can sometimes be decent just to chunk thru early elites if you don't get anything else
It's still awful but creators are like, NEVER willing to take it
@@d.s.alcoda There are several Baalorlord A20 videos where he takes it and kills heart, so I'd unfortunately have to disagree. It does have applications and good players will know when that is.
The pressure points question was so dirty lol. I feel like mentioning that it bypasses block but not that it is stopped by artefact is such a bait.
I respect how content pilled both of them are
Yeah and Rarran honestly had the reasoning right haha he would have won it if it wasn't for the 5-5
yea and i dont even agree with frost, like yes its not the best card to put in just any build, but if you can get 2 or 3 of them, make your deck extremelly small and have a vault it can actually go really hard.
@@Bomsanchu pressure points just doesn't flow with the rest of the watcher build though, and watcher already has insane damage
@@justacryptid4687 that's false: scry, calm, empty mind, any card draw and any card/relic that relies on not playing attacks work really well with it, You even have some neutral cards that it also really loves. I'v beaten the heart a number of times with it.
@@justacryptid4687 yea and i have won with decks that use preasure point and vault that just win before any enemy can do anything about it. even on A20
Rarran absolutely got robbed on the Pressure Point question with how much Frost gassed it up in panic, but then handed him and the believers the win at the end so... Happy Ending!
"it has 0 cost so it has infinite value."
MY MAN! (Ascension 1 defect btw totally not a sign)
Draw is a cost too!
someone hasn't taken an intro to economics claaaaass~
the claw review after the last defect video run is gold
Claw could be salvaged if the damage boost was for the floor, and not just for the fight.
@@Babbleplay Claw would be broken if that was the case
I mean, I just grab claws on floor 1 and ignore them later if I don't have at least 2-3. They're serviceable later on but if you get enough of them, they go extremely hard
1:03 Andrew purposefully misaligning the audio in the clip, I see you
That was great, bravo Andrew
I was gonna say the exact same. We see your attention to detail Andrew
As a watcher main, I've never seen that last card. I imagine a lot of people haven't because who is deranged enough to take wish and then use it for plated armor!
My greedy ass trying to survive after one too many elites
NorthernLion, every time.
Omniscience -> Upped Wish for 16 plated armor is pretty good....
Now we need frost rating Heartstone cards
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
Tools of the trade is also useful to discard punishment curse/bad cards
Another good aspect of TOTT that no-one mentions is that it's draw-neutral (doesn't increase the number of cards you have in your hand) each turn. It therefore doesn't have anti-synergy with other draw-cards (since there's a handsize limit). This is particularly important for Draw-to-X effects like Expertise.
Yeah but like you shouldn't have actively negative cards in your deck for most of the game, like Decay and Normalcy you cut as soon as you're able and you can also just use one of the silent's billion other discard cards like Survivor, Acrobatics etc.
@@jacobwansleeben Its draw negative for 2 turns because the card itself is in the deck taking a draw.
Yeah so fun fact: Live Forever used to give you 1 plated armor EVERY TURN. Rarren is closer than he thought!
"a lot of you are horny, and furries"
entirely correct
nah what I got called out
Called us all out
sadly
...yeah.
hiiii
I feel like fasting would’ve also been a very interesting conversation, maybe for when he plays watcher more though
Fasting is a MAYBE. 80% of the time it's terrible and the other 20% it's slightly okay
@@tomekk.1889 Sounds like a "bad" to me
@@tomekk.1889 the other %20 it's amazing, watcher really loves strength and dex, Wallop and Just Lucky procs both strength and dex, wrath doubles the damage from strength, Halt gets double block from dex, vulnerable stacks with strength and wrath etc.
@@Ghorda9wallop doesn't actually proc of dex, only of strength. A good rule of thumb is if it gets blocked by panic button it interacts with dex, and wallop doesn't get blocked by panic button.
I only take Fasting if I can offset the energy penalty, whether with orange pellets, artifact, or otherwise consistently gaining more energy.
Rampage is like, exactly average
You take it sometimes just for a bit of early numeric value, and then later its just whatever that you might play if you dont draw better damage for the turn
It gets memed on because it SEEMS like an epic build defining card that fails to do that
Yeah, it's agressively mid, and it does it's job of being that really well.
I've definitely had some insane small deck runs based around rampage, headbutt, and battle trance
Rampage is great when you manage to slim down your deck enough to draw it every turn, maybe even twice a turn.
I disagree, rampage wins 1/3 to about 1/5 of the run mostly by itself, which allows you to skip on other strong early game cards you would not want later but would have needed to take otherwise. This usually means you end up with stronger deck because you were offered a rampage.
Card is nuts. Great early because it wins fights, great late because your deck is more optimized because of it. Exact same reason why glass knife is so good.
@@crazymanmot the hell it does fool
The sheer amount of gaslighting frost did during this was incredible.
I love seeing Rarran's facial expressions while he's listening to Frost's explanations, it's such a mood every time
The pressure points and the rampage ones were a robbery
why would you play a 1 cost deal 8 when the watcher can play 0 cost deal 200?
Nah rampage is shit, completely agree with you
Frost had said before that if there are more "mark" cards pressure point will be very good.
Also rampage is underratted imo. I beieve that it is above average
In a vacuum i think pressure points is better than rampage as it bypasses block, scales with copies of itself and you may choose to divide the damage among more targets if you so choose, i believe it would be insane in a silent deck by itself but in a watcher deck it really makes no fucking sense.
That said, i also think rampage is really bad and the reasons given here are bullshit as "it scales with strength and vulnerable" would also describe a basic strike, it only gets a pass because ironclad is weak overall and his lack of deckbuilding potential is supplemented by healing every floor.
I had a run where Talk to the Hand + Tantrum (+ Fear no evil + Rushdown infinite) was my blocking solution, and Pressure Points was an excellent spiker solution for me. However, even with Wave of the Hand to absolutely demolish enemy artifact, Pressure Points still felt weak as an attack.
I think the problem is just that the Watcher's primary draw/energy strategy (rushdown + stance dancing) involves better damage cards, and other methods (study/evaluate + deva/deus/collect) are kinda meh. Scrawl sortof works, but Scrawl + Stance powers + Stance dancing is soooo much better.
Another difference between heathstone and slay the spire people.have to remember is that in hearthstone you keep your hand at the end of the turn so a draw 1 discard 1 is much more valuable to cycke for your gg card in hearthstone while in spire you focus on cycling deck to get best dmg per turn while minimizing damage taken with armor.
Judgements I disagree on:
Tools of the trade:
Good : Extra draw at least 2 turns from now, 0 cost power on upgrade meaning pellets synergy is high, already a very high synergy due to discard cards with the Silent
Bad: Draw negative 1 turn, 1 turn draw Neutral, -1 Energy if not upgraded, if run is lucky on removable events it becomes worse
I think its still a really good card, just for the fact that the Silent will almost always want to have discard synergy or at least pellets on them. Cards like eviscerate, sneaky strike, Reflex and tactitian as well as kite, tingsha and bandage are all REALLY good with this card because of the innate ability to discard. I think Rarran was done dirty on this one since his explanation was almost flawless.
Pressure points:
You really robbed him. He gave you every bit of explanation completely right and then ending off with "its leaning towards bad"
This is a competition to "good" or "bad" and if he says "leaning bad" then its definitely not falling into the good category.
(Also Alpha is worse, your last watcher win with pressure points showed how good it is. Either you take at least one omniscience and more draw +energy with watcher to make up for Alpha OR you take extra pps who are stacking faster than an Alpha will in single target fights and if played smart in AoEs as well)
Rampage:
Good: Ramp up for Bosses, decent scaling with small decks either by nature of by exhaust
Bad: Fucking sucks for elites in A2-4, awful in AoE, NEEDS to attack to scale meaning if you draw this on a bad turn it wont scale at all for a whole rotation
Very dependant on deck, if we go by the way you tried to make this consistent of in "will I play this more often than not?" then its still a 50/50. Its a glorified Strike on a character that likes to play aggressively, but has better options available as well as strength scaling most of the time anyway. Either answer is good here
Rarran should've won this challenge 8-2
I would say Tools of the Trade would be decent even in other characters’ decks simply for giving you more draw and hand control. The fact that Silent has some good discard synergy is icing on the cake.
it's not that hard to play omega on turn two or three, the great thing about it is that you don't ever need to attack and just use that energy to draw cards and block, scry even helps you get it sooner rather than later
I would say the main consideration not brought up in the video is that Silent has a sick turn 1 so this card can make the rest of ur turns slightly better. That said if you draw it literally any other turn it feels garbage because you might be taking 20 and would rather be doing damage/blocking.
However you would much rather be picking better rares/more synergistic cards. If it was a card you just got for free without using a card reward it would be much better, but the fact you mostly see it as a boss reward just makes it so much worse
I stand with my boy Rarran as well. He was right on all three of those cards and despite pressure points being a meme card, it can get there against bosses. Rampage is a feelsbad card for ironclad. Only good if you got nothing better for the whole first act.
Tools of the trade:
Good : Extra draw at least 2 turns from now, 0 cost power on upgrade meaning pellets synergy is high, already a very high synergy due to discard cards with the Silent
Bad: Draw negative 1 turn, 1 turn draw Neutral, -1 Energy if not upgraded, if run is lucky on removable events it becomes worse
The main issue with tools of the trade is that the Silent has Acrobatics and Backflip which makes Tools of the trade superfluous and not really worth adding to your deck. If you don't get Acrobatics then yes Tools is decent but most of the time you would rather have Acrobatics because of the more immediate effect (and it is usually easier to find or cheaper to buy)
First time stumbling across this guy's vids. This guy has the most 90's Disney movie antagonist look. I mean that in a good way
Rarran over here saying Waboku is a must-play card in YGO
He truely is a paleo player
Wraith form is much more Swords of Revealing Light than it is Waboku
But yeah I think he overestimates the value of dealing damage in card games with meaningful ability to interact on your opponent's turn
Fact is a card like wraith Form did exist I HS. It was thet mage spell that means you only take 1 damage until your next turn and it was played in every mage deck. Also Ice Block.
Lol when he said that I was like, “except YuGiOh”
I mean to some extent an effect like this has caused issues in the past, with a card like One Day of Peace. Obviously not applicable anymore, but to be fair we don't have any true conversion of this effect. The combination of just being able to safely pass several turns that can't be removed in an environment where it can't be negated is a relevant difference.
Day 678 of asking frost to play chess
The videos with rarran are really funny
Keep strong
One day Andrew will convince frost to play chess after you hit day 1000
It gets funnier how lost this puppy is
The fact that frost gave you a heart means that he know you have been asking for him to play chess for 678 days, so keep going!
@@laz.8039 I heard that his editor Andrew is the run who runs his TH-cam or something like that so hopefully andrew tells him 😅🤞
Note that for slay the spire since games aren't independent, drawn wr has a similar bias to played wr, because catch up cards will have a lower wr, and cards that you only pick while winning will have a higher wr.
I love draw 1 discard 1, it synergizes so well with pyramid, kite, status cards, it’s overall just a +, even better if upgraded.
Frost really lowballed by saying top level players have a 95% winrate with Watcher
As someone not great at Slay the Spire, it amuses me to no end that the only Watcher run I’ve managed to complete was just stuffing my deck with nothing but the worst card they have lmao (pressure points)
22:20
one thing I really like about the card game version is, they cut out Alpha and Beta, and you just get Omega directly
For recycle my first thought was "Wow, you get rid of 2 cards, to have mana to play 3 cards" totally disregarding any kind of draw mechanic.
Runic pyramid and X cost cards also work great with recycle, you can recycle an X card to double your current energy or recycle a high cost card to fuel an X card
That's the beauty of this game: It feel so good, when you have a deck set up, that supports those niche cards and makes them absolutely erase everything in an instant.
Chat saying hyperbeam is bad isn't understanding that the focus loss doesn't matter if the enemies are dead.
Yeah if it's the literal start of the fight and the enemies have like 100 HP don't use it. But if everything's at 26/etc or less, you no longer need focus, the fight is done.
How funny would it have been if Andrew purposefully desynced the audio because Frost didn't want to go along with the clap
Why, oh why do I ever get like only 10 minutes or so into a Frost Prime StS video before I've got to start the game up on my own!?!?
Oh boy. I like ranch ranch.
Represent my boi, Hidden Valley Rarranch
Rastafarian is doing a better job the expected.
Gotta love good ol' Rattan
Rawr "XD" Ran is always a treat to see in a collab
*ram ranch
Excellent content to help us improve, pay more attention and understand how you make decisions in other videos. Keep them coming! ❤
A Thousand Cuts feels like it wishes it was Panache.
That drop into "The 13th Struggle" after a moment of silence when Frost showed Rarran the bonus round image was *Chef's Kiss* editing. Nice job!!
i was really expecting the bonus round to be pride
38:50 "I remember when they first invented chocolate. sweet, sweet chocolate. I ALWAYS HATED IT!"
Heavy blade is bad? It carried me pretty damn hard in an ironclad run this morning, the build basically was a very small deck running a lot of block, draw and strength buffs, and I just cycled until I could heavy blade for like 50+ damage.
I'm not saying it's the best, top tiered ironclad attack, but it's bare minimum C tier.
That was my thought too. I guess he's rating based on Ascension 20, but I'd bet the majority of StS players don't go above A5 or even less, myself included. I play games to have fun, not bash my head against the wall, and on my runs, Heavy Blade is awesome.
The moment he mentioned defect I just started chanting 'claw claw claw claw.'
Wtf were you on when you were shilling Rampage lol? You haven't taken that shit once and it's definitely below rate, which is what you would classify as a bad card here. Rarran got scammed
36:20 An edit to the last time he took a Rampage would be great, because im pretty sure that was before Balatro release at this point
I think the problem with rating if a card is good or bad is that you build your deck as you play, and wont always be shown a card you're looking for.
Ex:You said thousand cuts was bad because something like eviserate might be better more often, but thousand cuts is a card that can help solve the problem of "how do I do enough damage to kill enemies" and scales well with things silent already wants to do, but you dont need to take it if your deck already has a way to kill the enemies effectively. Once you've added cards that solve "how do I do damage" you dont really want to add more attacks or damage card even if they might be better than cards already in your deck
I did a draft with several Claws, a bunch of other zero cost cards, rebounds, Holograms, and scrapes. It was solid, and fun as hell.
the fact that most of the cards i dont like are said to be good here, and cards i do like are said to be bad here, makes me feel bad
Don't be. The take here is really bad. For example, yes the Wraith for is really good...IF you can kill the opponents within 2-3 turns and you may sacrifice a good damage turn to play it.
Meanwhile, tools of the trade that was deemed bad, goes positive by second round, if upgraded you start with it, so you gain the benefits as soon as possible and synergies with half the Silent card pool.
Also notice that they didn't take cards that are good or bad in any situation. Like, why not judge Adrenaline? Because the answer is straight and you can't bs your way into saying it's bad.
@@THEO00900 thanks
@@THEO00900isnt tools of the trade upgrade a -1 energy cost upgrade
"Meanwhile, tools of the trade that was deemed bad, goes positive by second round, if upgraded you start with it, so you gain the benefits as soon as possible and synergies with half the Silent card pool."
I think Tools is decent the main issue is that Acrobatics is great and basically does what Tools does but front loaded which is usually better and Acrobatics has a lower rarity so you are more likely to see it. Of course if you don't get offered Acrobatics then Tools of the Trade gets a lot more appealing
@@THEO00900wraith form is a good card, and cards like adrenaline are obviously good and cards like riddle with holes are obviously bad
Today's daily climb was a relicpilled Watcher run. I ended up with an alpha build (not pure alpha but that was my wincon) and cleared the Time Keeper in five turns. That was my second victory with an alpha-focused deck, out of four Watcher victories. It also used Deva Form, two Deus Ex Machinas, and two Wishes, which I used for money in almost every fight.
Edit: Just now won another Watcher run using a "hard Alpha" deck - as in, alpha was literally the only way to do damage. I removed every Strike and Eruption; my only attack was Cut Through Fate, and that was just for the scry. Early on I picked up the Prismatic Shard, which definitely helped - Armaments, Burning Pact, and Exhume from the Ironclad all helped shore up the deck in different ways, but the less said about the vast gulf between how useful I thought Machine Learning and Stack would be and how little I actually played them, the better for my pride. Still, can't complain about a 3 damage, 6 turn Watcher fight in which it only got off one attack in phase 2.
Almost makes me wish I'd collected the keys and gone up against the Heart, although if I'm being honest I was not confident I could have done without resting as often as I did (even if the results of the final battle clearly say I could have). And I certainly could have passed up on one of the chest relics; I don't think Unceasing Top ever triggered.
Edit 2: Unceasing Top was actually an Elite drop. I would have had to pass up on Mango, and although that wouldn't have lost me the run had I done everything else the same, I definitely wouldn't have spent 10 of my last 11 health on Sensory Stone, and the Dark Shackles I got out of that may have made all the difference on turn 2 of the boss. I also definitely couldn't have even reached Act 3 without Anchor, so I would have had to pass up on Mercury Hourglass in Act 1... most fights lasted three or four turns at most, but I don't know if that damage would have still made the difference tipping an important enemy into lethal. So maybe I wouldn't have been able to reach Act 4 anyway.
On the other hand, if this is a revisionist history anyway, I might go back and scrub away some obvious piloting errors that cost me a potion I didn't need to spend in the Act 1 boss fight, and who knows what knock-on effects that would have had. Whatever.
Edit 3: Wait, I'm so stupid. If I'd remembered I had Unceasing Top, this deck would have been even more unstoppable. I probably could have been popping two turn one Omegas every fight with just a little luck, and then Exhuming the betas on turn 2. You know what they say about hindsight: It makes a hind out of you and sight.
"the meta has shifted"
BROTHER the game hasnt changed for YEARS
Applying PvP language to static PvE games like that is just weird, yeah. It's like how speedruns for games don't have a meta, they have players getting better at the game and optimizing and finding new tricks. Metagames describe the "game outside the game" where you're picking decks/classes/strategies based on both what is good and what is popular.
Metagame is such a stupid term. The understanding of the games mechanics and balances is always been party of the game
I like how Frost is very honest in round 9. ‘I’m gonna dock you for content’ lmao
"Is Rarran smart? In this PowerPoint Presentation, I will...."
Recycle is definitely good for thinning out a deck of cards that are not so good during a certain matchups. I’ve made claw builds bonkers by using recycle to thin the deck out so I could draw claws back to back to back.
Tools of the Trade is bad? Seriously? It's got a lot of synergy with Silent's card pool, makes Hovering Kite reliably proc at the start of every turn, and provides consistent discard, and helps you cycle through your deck consistently faster. It also upgrades to zero cost.
I'll accept that it might be somewhat situational, but "bad" is crazy.
Man Frost and Rarran are such a good combo; I’d love to see more vids with y’all together in the future.
Hope you make more of these, would like to see thoughts on so many other cards, including Iron wave, some of the poison cards etc.
Is Claw good? Is Claw bad? Doesn't matter! It's iconic! They even made a whole separate thing just for it in the board game!
This has made an interesting commute, thank you.
I wish thousand cuts was "when you play a card or deal damage deal 1 damage" so that multi-hit cards procced it several times.
Pressure point stacks so absurdly well bro
Does anyone know whats the song that starts at 34:04 ?
This is from Crisis City in Sonic 06
12:41 Shout out to the chatter doing the math on the ABV ratio of the Blood of Christ
You can tell the different mindsets based on the respective game. In hearthstone, you want a strong build identity, in slay the spire, you want flexibility to solve a multitude of problems.
I'm so down for this Rarran meta of rating other games cards to transfer to the goated STS streamer himself No Balls Prime
I main Defect and I try to build around all for one with beam cell and go for the eyes because they do well for adding and negating damage, with claw added in there for some nice boss shredding capabilities. Also Recycle and Overclock to keep cycling through my deck to get all for one again. And that’s how I aim most of my runs.
Tools of the Trade beats Acrobatics spam for discard synergy. Acrobatics spam is 1 mana per turn for 1 discard each turn while Tools of the Trade is 1 mana per fight for 1 discard each turn. And it is only 1 card in your deck that removes itself so it doesn't block you from getting cards you want to spend your mana on. it is also only 1 card selection instead of several so it has lower opportunity cost. A 1 mana Power is not bloat, especially upgraded to 0 mana!
I'd rank it around 30th percentile of The Silent's Rare cards, I'd only call 15-20th percentile bad... If you are calling everything in the 50th percentile bad then sure it is bad.
You can play infinite acrobatics in one turn if you have tactician and/or concentrate, so the ceiling for acro is way higher than tool
Gotta love the heavy misdirection at the start that most of the card ratings are just based off of Jorbs' analysis. Especially since Jorbs has more or less made every card in sts look good at some point in time even when he himself says the use cases for many of them are limited.
are you going to do the oppisite? you ranking heartstone cards? i always love watching the rarrost content
andrew edited berserk ost. he's officially the goat and one of the boys
I’m trying so hard to remember the name of the song at 37:50 it’s driving me insane
Out of curiosity, are you the same frost who brought pepperoni pizzas to an MtG game night at a vegetarian's house in upstate New York in like 2012, 2013?
Rarran: Claw is only good in niche builds
Frost: Claw is only good in niche builds but I don't think that's what you said
stupid question. How does a PvE game thqats been out for 6 years and doesn't really do balance patches have a "shifting meta". When things are done the Meta gets solved. just curious
It's fairly complex and the "meta" is largely from people following the top few people's opinions on the game. They play the game at A20 and aim for winstreaks or increase in winrates on certain characters.
Their opinions slowly shift over time because they find more consistent strategies and ways to utilise things they didn't before to squeeze out slightly higher winrates.
Shout out to the editor. Great work
i never realised the live forever beta art had meaning beyond the spongebob reference
I got to A20 with the first 3 characters and now I'm climbing with Watcher (A6 rn) and my thoughts on Pressure Points is that it actually does have niche synergies with some Watcher cards. Signature Move, Swivel, Wreath of Flame + Multi-hit Moves like Ragnarok, etc, because it allows you to deal damage while not playing an attack card. Even with those synergies, the frequency of artifact on enemies makes it often a dead card. So I can't disagree with the rating, but it *does* have synergies
I think you should reach out to Snnuy. He has done card ratings with Rarran in the past, but for Legends of Runeterra. I think it would be fun to watch you try and rate some of the LoR cards, especially with your past in League. Though, I understand if you wouldn't want to, especially with the (semi) recent news about Riot not planning to add on to the PvP. I also understand that it can be hard to reach out to other content creators out of the blue. Thanks for considering it at least!
Pressure points has synergies; they just don't exist in the Watcher's kit. So if you are playing custom runs with multicolored decks it becomes a lot better when you can use holograms, rebounds, and headbutts to keep getting it back into your hand. Yeah, in a monopurple it kinda sucks, but even then, have you ever made a draft or sealed deck that was nothing but pressure point? It's actually absurd how well it can do.
I super disagree with the analysis of Tools of the Trade, the first card discussed. Draw/Scry is so beneficial in almost all scenarios. It boils down to take the better card or leave it.
Early game, I can see how limited energy makes it less appealing. But it is a super powerful utility, IMO.
Started playing Slay the Spire because of this video. And now having played it too much in the last couple of days I'm finally ready to watch this in its entirety
Me. What’s your highest ascension?
@@adamsheppard2451 for me ATM 6
I'd kill to see a roundtable discussion/podcast between a bunch of card game experts. Hearthstone, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering, Pokémon TCG...
Another thing that makes Rampage better than Pressure Points is that for Pressure Points the damage increase sticks on the enemy and vanishes when the enemy dies, whereas with Rampage, the damage increase sticks to the card and sticks around for the next enemy (in the same battle)
The only thing that matters in the distinction between Rampage and Pressure Points is that Gremlin Nob and Sentries exist. Rampage works in those fights and Pressure Points doesn't. Act 1 elite fights are crucial for securing relics for the rest of the run. It's the only reason Pressure Points isn't good and Rampage is.
ill never forget the first time i chose wraith form. I didnt realize it was taking dex EVERY turn, thought it was just once for some reason. Really messed that run up obviously.
Both, alpha and pressure point, i wanted to work so bad (knowing they werent good) that at various high acesions while moving up, i just got stuborn and went for them until they got me a win lol
Zero build on defect is done with metamorphosis white card series, that adds cards and makes them cost 0.
The most fun deck ever.
8:04 Can someone please tell me what is this OST ?
I also thought tools of the trade was a good card, and I thought Rampage was bad. I got the other ones.
In a world where there are only two answers, "good" and "bad", you should've given him the point for pressure points.
whoa...I don't think I've ever seen "live forever" either.
Calling Tools of the Trade a bad card is insane
It's power isn't in the draw, it's in the free discard allowing you to reliable build a discard synergy every single term. It also enables Hovering Kite every single turn, making it the single best energy relic in Silent's pool
Frost is channelling Scamaz energy, justice for Rawrran
The Rarran multiverse continues to expand- great video
I remember when I used to think Wraith Form was trash. Granted, I was right, because dealing damage to a random enemy whenever you played a skill wasn't worth the energy cost.
Is that what Wraith Form used to be like? I wish there was like a compendium of every single card change
im not pro by any means , but i still dont udnerstaband why tools of trade is a bad card, i mean every turn u draw something that you dont need for that specific turn, so discarding it doesnt loose you anything , but you still draw another card and its a 1 cost power , who doesnt like 1 cost power, the silent also has very good synergies with discard
I think the call on rampage was so scuffed. Frost extolling its virtues while literally almost never taking it in any run. He's like oh, I take this often. I would like to know when the last time rampage appeared in one of the youtube videos was. When was the last time he won a run with this card in his deck lol.
It’s pretty clear frost entered this with an agenda to make rarran look stupid. Pretty cringe from him tbh
hyperbeam is a solid finisher, but you need to have a build that doesn't rely on orbs
I would argue tools of trade being good since it lets you discard drawn status or curse cards to prevent you from feeling the effects. Situational, yes, but against monsters that give you status effects or if you have a curse (like any of the book curses, which you probably have) then it gets its use. It makes your play more consistent, which is good. The initial observation of it being a negative for the first two turns is certainly valid criticism though.
0:15
Now that's a personal attack Frost 😂
On thousand cuts. I really like it in nightmare decks. It’s really bad as is. But I recently had a nightmare deck where I got off 6 blurs and 6 thousand cut + then it was a discard block build setting up a wraith form duplication to deal with time keeper.
So yeah starting with Pandora’s box is fun
Is that persona music in the background at 28 minutes?
2:40 Is the music here from a Crash Bandicoot game like Crash Tag Team Racing?
Crash twinsanity, the ost is all acapella and it's based
@@blazingbrazen Ah, thanks! I knew ut was Crash related because it sounded like something straight out of Tag Team Racing, which I used to play a lot when I was younger, and that OST is also a banger!
Frost, you can't just call me out in the first 20 seconds of your video like that man.
I love your co-streams with everyone.
Lol the outright refusal to do a clap sync and the editor response had me rolling 😂
Clash is playable, if you have a zero cost deck and a top. Every card has a place where it's good and a place where it's bad. It depends on your deck and relics.
in no world does rampage beat act 1. how many times do you cycle your deck in elite fights??
13th struggle is such a goated OST for the bonus round lmao