Love your video specially since you actually explain unlike other people that only show the process. It would be great for you to make a five or six exit CNC machine from scratch just how you did it right now but in simple process the assembly‘s. As well the configurations in the program that you use. Right now I have all the materials and I am in the process of building a six access machine
Hi William. Are you using a paid for version of Fusion 360? the latest hobby version does not have multi axis, I am in the process of building a 5 axis mill so any advice on software would be appreciated.
Hi. I am using a paid version of Fusion 360 now. However, when I built the 5th axis, I was on the (free) startup version. As I mention in the video, the startup version I was using only had access to a subset of Fusion's multi-axis operations. For the full suite of operations, the manufacturing extension module is required. This is unfortunately rather expensive. Good luck with your project.
Would this process be possible with a tormach?I know they can be upgraded to 4th axis and they don't have a 5th axis option at the moment but would this be possible with tormachs stock controller or would it need a 2nd controller of some kind to make it function? obviously most 4th or 5th axis work isn't gonna be done at the control it'll be done in cad/cam but if someone wanted to do something simple could they do it from the control or would they need to use cam? And would the tormach post processor do it or would there need to be a work around? Awesome build I look forward to hearing from you
Thanks. It's quite straightforward with LinuxCNC? Parallel port pins are allocated for each axis. The servo motors of the A & C axes are in stepper control mode, so they take step and direction signals directly from the parallel port. It all works really well.
@@girvaw Got you - i was referring to using this as a machine that either drip feeds commands through a software program or X and Y co-ordinates created by a software program then fed into the machines controller via a USB stick.... I guess you manually programming each step and pausing between each command change between the mill and then the added 4th and 5th axis? To get this to work simultaneously would you be able to achieve this?
@@TurboDirectSA the toolpaths are generated from the 3d modelling software - Fusion 360 in this case. All of the axes can move simultaneously. This is dependent on the gcode generated by the Fusion 360 post processor in question and the CNC controller. See Tool Centre Point control (TCP) for further reading. The 4th & 5th axes could be driven using their native API, however in a CNC context this would not likely be practical.
@@girvaw So are you using a single controller board to manage all 5 axis at the same time? Like a Fanuc control or Siemens? I understand Fusion360 will output the code which i assume you are either drip feeding to the machines controller (which controller are you using?) or you plug a memory card into the controller - but either way you using a controller of sorts - what are you using for this?
@@TurboDirectSA axes X, Y & Z have their own stepper drivers which are driven by LinuxCNC via parallel port pins. A & C don't need drivers, as they have TTL-level inputs that can be driven directly from the parallel port. See LinuxCNC docs for an explanation of how this works.
I learn a lot in this video. Thank you for sharing. Please if you don't mind, what is the size of the stepper motor you used on the x and y axis (torque, size & step angle)? Can I use stepper motors instead of servos for the whole axis?
Hi. The servos used are harmonic drive-based. Direct-drive stepper motors would not be suitable for this type of application. Perhaps a stepper with a toothed-belt reduction might be feasible.
Hello, I'm very impressed from this project; really great work ! But there is a problem with the F360-file from GRABCAD. A fault comes up when import in F360. Due to the fact that I love this project please upload a correct version. Thanks for help... Greetings from Hamburg
@@girvaw It might be easier to share the a360 file. There still seems to be an issue with the Grabcad model. It seems to be missing components that the model references.
Thanks ! As far as I'm aware, xyzac-trt doesn't support TCP out of the box. There's some commentary on this on the LinuxCNC forum here: forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/31813-tcp-5-axis-kinematics?start=120#139881 This is a subject I'm going to be looking at in the near future, so keep an eye on my channel.
Bonjour, Superbe réalisation ! Une question: si je ne me trompe, les efforts de coupe sont encaissés directement par les axes des moteurs pas à pas. Pour le cendrier, tu as pris des petites passes dans de l'aluminium, qu'est ce que cela donne lors que tu usines de l'acier ? A bientôt
Bonjour, Normalement oui. En revanche, avec l'opération "Swarf", on peut attendre qu'après le positionnement des axes x, y et a, on verrait uniquement le mouvement des axes z et c. Cela dit, Autodesk a beaucoup de savoir-faire dans ce domaine et la qualité des surfaces est évidente. J'ai pris des petites passes parce que c'était le première essai. Normalement, on prendrait des passes plus profonde et plus rapidement. Cela dit, c'est une petite fraiseuse avec une faible puissance (500W). Je n'attendais pas de problèmes avec l'usinage de l'acier sur le 5eme axe - il est super rigide.
Great job! A question: Did you measure how much the C axis plate flexes, after installing it on the A axis plate? It was great to see you tested that of A axis
Uff almost 800€ for the servos. That is not cheap at all but they are a beautiful piece of engineering. They seem ideal for that kind of work and the specs look good too.
Thanks for your feedback! Firstly, I should note that I have an interest in Robot Articulation. The servo motors used in this project are Mercury M30 models. They are currently only being released to early adopters. Unit prices are TBD, but the aim is to have them very competitively priced. If you wish to stay informed, contact Robot Articulation via the contact page on their website. If you're in a hurry, there are alternatives: - Dynamixel Pro servos have cycloidal bearing outputs, so should have very little backlash. I'm not sure how much axial and radial forces they can tolerate. They are however expensive. I've used both AX and MX series Dynamixels in the past. I found that the metal-geared MX versions had significant backlash and were nowhere near rigid enough for this type of application. - Harmonic Drive LLC produces various models of motor+controller+harmonic-drive in a single unit, but again they appear to be quite expensive. Discrete harmonic drives could also be used, but the combination of a motor+harmonic-drive would probably necessitate a much taller a-axis centre of rotation. - Another alternative is to use steppers with some type of belt-drive mechanism. At the end of the day, harmonic-drive based solutions are ideal for this type of application due to both the lack of backlash and the rigidity provided by the heavy-duty crossed roller bearing output. Hope this helps.
Thanks. The constant movement of the y (and X) axes is a result of the toolpaths generated from Fusion 360's multi-axis Swarf operation. I don't know the rational behind this. That said, the surface finishes produced by these operations were very good.
@@girvaw Thanks. Can you read the gcode? It would be interesting to see if x and y were being driven as we see. Another question if you don't mind. Can the 4th and 5th axis be manually backdriven? If so how much? I'm retrfitting a small lathe at the moment and I only use servos. These are easy to backdrive which is a downside compared to steppers which have max torque when stationary. Not that I have ever had any problems. my existing lathe has servo driven spindle and I cut gears and accuracy is not an issue.
I'll have a look at the gcode when I have a moment. Regarding the back-drivability of the servos, with no power applied, the back driving force is specified as 5 Nm. See robotarticulation.com/pages/product_mercury_m30.html Backdriving when running would be very unlikely, as the servos are closed loop with high stall torques. They do however have a torque control mode, which would allow this, but this mode would not be used in a CNC application.
@@girvaw That's crazy code. I don't know enough about it to suggest why. Perhaps a not so good post processor? The fact that the servo has a backdrive torque almost the same as the rated torque says to me it is pretty dam good.
bir şeyler hayal eden 3 eksende de işini görebiliyor. hayatın bütün alanlardaki sanatlar ile daha rahat bir şekilde meşkul olanlar 5 eksenli cnc de kullanmak istiyebilir tabi. keskin ekipmanlar işi dahada kısa sürede görebiliyor tabi. bir gözleme göre kız veya erkek arkadaşlarıyla beraber böyle çalışmalar yürütenlerin daha başarılı olduğu görülmüş.
@@walkbehindtrimmer_attachment Hi. Thanks for the proposition! Unfortunately it would not be viable to produce these commercially with my lightweight machines. In addition, hand scraping is very time-consuming so a surface grinder would be required.
Love your video specially since you actually explain unlike other people that only show the process. It would be great for you to make a five or six exit CNC machine from scratch just how you did it right now but in simple process the assembly‘s. As well the configurations in the program that you use. Right now I have all the materials and I am in the process of building a six access machine
This is high quallity content. Instant subscribed.
William, you know.. smashing a grand slam on your first At-Bat.... sets a high bar for your followup :-)) +1 on the "Instant Subscribe" list
Brilliant. Mentally around diggers. No fingers. Thanks stepper. Dave
Hello william,great project.i would need to build a rotary table too,so where can i find your project with drawings?
Nice performance!!
Can Linux cnc do plane commands?
Good day
Can i get gear ratio and torque of servo motors for bangel engrawing ?
Fusion reports a permissions error, possibly there is a reference to a component that is not included in the file. A step file export would solve it.
Hi William.
Are you using a paid for version of Fusion 360? the latest hobby version does not have multi axis, I am in the process of building a 5 axis mill so any advice on software would be appreciated.
Hi. I am using a paid version of Fusion 360 now. However, when I built the 5th axis, I was on the (free) startup version. As I mention in the video, the startup version I was using only had access to a subset of Fusion's multi-axis operations. For the full suite of operations, the manufacturing extension module is required. This is unfortunately rather expensive. Good luck with your project.
Thanks William, Very detailed and nice project.
sorry for asking but do you sell all of the parts so I can put together
Would this process be possible with a tormach?I know they can be upgraded to 4th axis and they don't have a 5th axis option at the moment but would this be possible with tormachs stock controller or would it need a 2nd controller of some kind to make it function? obviously most 4th or 5th axis work isn't gonna be done at the control it'll be done in cad/cam but if someone wanted to do something simple could they do it from the control or would they need to use cam? And would the tormach post processor do it or would there need to be a work around? Awesome build I look forward to hearing from you
Nicely done - how did you connect controllers to work together with the existing mill?
Thanks. It's quite straightforward with LinuxCNC? Parallel port pins are allocated for each axis. The servo motors of the A & C axes are in stepper control mode, so they take step and direction signals directly from the parallel port. It all works really well.
@@girvaw Got you - i was referring to using this as a machine that either drip feeds commands through a software program or X and Y co-ordinates created by a software program then fed into the machines controller via a USB stick.... I guess you manually programming each step and pausing between each command change between the mill and then the added 4th and 5th axis?
To get this to work simultaneously would you be able to achieve this?
@@TurboDirectSA the toolpaths are generated from the 3d modelling software - Fusion 360 in this case. All of the axes can move simultaneously. This is dependent on the gcode generated by the Fusion 360 post processor in question and the CNC controller. See Tool Centre Point control (TCP) for further reading. The 4th & 5th axes could be driven using their native API, however in a CNC context this would not likely be practical.
@@girvaw So are you using a single controller board to manage all 5 axis at the same time? Like a Fanuc control or Siemens? I understand Fusion360 will output the code which i assume you are either drip feeding to the machines controller (which controller are you using?) or you plug a memory card into the controller - but either way you using a controller of sorts - what are you using for this?
@@TurboDirectSA axes X, Y & Z have their own stepper drivers which are driven by LinuxCNC via parallel port pins. A & C don't need drivers, as they have TTL-level inputs that can be driven directly from the parallel port. See LinuxCNC docs for an explanation of how this works.
Two Words: AWESOME!
I learn a lot in this video. Thank you for sharing.
Please if you don't mind, what is the size of the stepper motor you used on the x and y axis (torque, size & step angle)?
Can I use stepper motors instead of servos for the whole axis?
Hi. The servos used are harmonic drive-based. Direct-drive stepper motors would not be suitable for this type of application. Perhaps a stepper with a toothed-belt reduction might be feasible.
@@girvaw Sir, I am asking about the stepper motor on the Y-axis 11:18 , not the servos. What is the configuration of the stepper motors?
@@mmnyako Steppers are all NEMA 23s. The drivers are set to 1/8 micro stepping. I don't have torque figures for the steppers. Supply voltage is 30v.
Beyond brilliant sir. Subscribed.
Hello, I'm very impressed from this project; really great work !
But there is a problem with the F360-file from GRABCAD.
A fault comes up when import in F360.
Due to the fact that I love this project please upload a correct version.
Thanks for help...
Greetings from Hamburg
Thanks ! I'll take a look at the model. It's a bit odd, as the assembly looks fine in Fusion 360. I'll let you know when it's fixed.
@@girvaw It might be easier to share the a360 file. There still seems to be an issue with the Grabcad model. It seems to be missing components that the model references.
Hello. Is there any shaft brakes located on the 4th and 5th axis?
Hi. There are no brakes on any of the axes.
10:37 A axis touched off at g54? The video cut out.
Hey this is super cool! Do you know if the XYZ-AC-trt config would support TCP out of the box?
Thanks ! As far as I'm aware, xyzac-trt doesn't support TCP out of the box. There's some commentary on this on the LinuxCNC forum here: forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/31813-tcp-5-axis-kinematics?start=120#139881
This is a subject I'm going to be looking at in the near future, so keep an eye on my channel.
This is amazing!! I have been wanting to make a dedicated mini 5 axis CNC!
Thanks !
This Could be an interesting project from start to end , a full cnc .
which of the motors did you use?
They are both M30 models.
@@girvaw What was the approx price of the motors? I'm looking into making my own and I really like your approach.
G’day William. Hey mate. Where do you get those drive motors from.Cheers
Bonjour Bryce. You can find the servo motors at www.robotarticulation.com/
@@girvaw thanks mate I’ll check em out. 😊
Bonjour, Superbe réalisation ! Une question: si je ne me trompe, les efforts de coupe sont encaissés directement par les axes des moteurs pas à pas. Pour le cendrier, tu as pris des petites passes dans de l'aluminium, qu'est ce que cela donne lors que tu usines de l'acier ? A bientôt
Bonjour, Normalement oui.
En revanche, avec l'opération "Swarf", on peut attendre qu'après le positionnement des axes x, y et a, on verrait uniquement le mouvement des axes z et c. Cela dit, Autodesk a beaucoup de savoir-faire dans ce domaine et la qualité des surfaces est évidente.
J'ai pris des petites passes parce que c'était le première essai. Normalement, on prendrait des passes plus profonde et plus rapidement. Cela dit, c'est une petite fraiseuse avec une faible puissance (500W).
Je n'attendais pas de problèmes avec l'usinage de l'acier sur le 5eme axe - il est super rigide.
Do you have anymore information on the servos?
What kind 5axis drive motor?
Great job!
A question: Did you measure how much the C axis plate flexes, after installing it on the A axis plate?
It was great to see you tested that of A axis
Thanks Yes, I did measure the c-axis flex, but forgot to record the footage! The flex was minimal even with quite a bit of pressure being applied.
Uff almost 800€ for the servos. That is not cheap at all but they are a beautiful piece of engineering. They seem ideal for that kind of work and the specs look good too.
Very nice indeed!
Hi, the file on grabcad doesn't work in fusion 360 I get an error message , can you please reupload?
Yo that crazy 🙌❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
Very impressive...nicely done! Which servo motors are you using and can you say how much they cost? Robot Articulation does not seem to list prices.
Thanks for your feedback!
Firstly, I should note that I have an interest in Robot Articulation. The servo motors used in this project are Mercury M30 models. They are currently only being released to early adopters. Unit prices are TBD, but the aim is to have them very competitively priced. If you wish to stay informed, contact Robot Articulation via the contact page on their website.
If you're in a hurry, there are alternatives:
- Dynamixel Pro servos have cycloidal bearing outputs, so should have very little backlash. I'm not sure how much axial and radial forces they can tolerate. They are however expensive. I've used both AX and MX series Dynamixels in the past. I found that the metal-geared MX versions had significant backlash and were nowhere near rigid enough for this type of application.
- Harmonic Drive LLC produces various models of motor+controller+harmonic-drive in a single unit, but again they appear to be quite expensive. Discrete harmonic drives could also be used, but the combination of a motor+harmonic-drive would probably necessitate a much taller a-axis centre of rotation.
- Another alternative is to use steppers with some type of belt-drive mechanism.
At the end of the day, harmonic-drive based solutions are ideal for this type of application due to both the lack of backlash and the rigidity provided by the heavy-duty crossed roller bearing output.
Hope this helps.
you can find a 80mm bldc drive with 30Nm and harmonic drive for $400 on aliexpress. 30RPM.
Thanks for a great vid. At the start of your vid, the Y-axis drive coupling is moving back and forth. Why is this?
Thanks. The constant movement of the y (and X) axes is a result of the toolpaths generated from Fusion 360's multi-axis Swarf operation. I don't know the rational behind this. That said, the surface finishes produced by these operations were very good.
@@girvaw Thanks. Can you read the gcode? It would be interesting to see if x and y were being driven as we see.
Another question if you don't mind. Can the 4th and 5th axis be manually backdriven? If so how much? I'm retrfitting a small lathe at the moment and I only use servos. These are easy to backdrive which is a downside compared to steppers which have max torque when stationary. Not that I have ever had any problems. my existing lathe has servo driven spindle and I cut gears and accuracy is not an issue.
I'll have a look at the gcode when I have a moment.
Regarding the back-drivability of the servos, with no power applied, the back driving force is specified as 5 Nm. See robotarticulation.com/pages/product_mercury_m30.html
Backdriving when running would be very unlikely, as the servos are closed loop with high stall torques. They do however have a torque control mode, which would allow this, but this mode would not be used in a CNC application.
@@robguyatt9602 Here's a snippet of the Swarf operation's gcode. As you can see, there's even an oscillating movement of the A axis. It would be interesting to understand the mechanics behind this (seemingly) unusual tool path.
N100 X-0.286 Z25.793 A45.002 C147.609
N105 X-0.285 Y-68.827 Z25.79 A45.001 C150.008
N110 X-0.277 Y-68.826 Z25.791 A44.997 C152.416
N115 X-0.262 Y-68.825 Z25.79 A44.996 C154.835
N120 X-0.237 Y-68.826 Z25.785 A44.997 C157.271
N125 X-0.195 Y-68.827 Z25.778 A45. C159.733
N130 X-0.106 Y-68.828 Z25.774 C162.205
N135 X-0.133 Y-68.829 Z25.769 A45.002 C164.559
N140 X-0.157 Y-68.828 Z25.767 A45.001 C166.916
N145 X-0.18 Y-68.827 A44.998 C169.277
N150 X-0.199 Y-68.825 A44.996 C171.642
N155 X-0.217 Y-68.826 Z25.762 A44.997 C174.011
N160 X-0.231 Y-68.827 Z25.755 A45. C176.385
N165 X-0.242 Y-68.828 Z25.75 A45.002 C178.763
N170 X-0.249 Z25.745 A45.003 C181.148
N175 X-0.252 Z25.742 C183.539
N180 X-0.25 Z25.738 C185.938
N185 X-0.243 Z25.736 A45.002 C188.346
N190 X-0.227 Z25.735 A45. C190.766
N195 X-0.202 Y-68.825 Z25.738 A44.994 C193.202
N200 X-0.16 Y-68.826 Z25.734 A44.995 C195.664
N205 X-0.071 Z25.729 A44.997 C198.136
N210 X-0.098 Z25.726 A44.996 C200.49
@@girvaw That's crazy code. I don't know enough about it to suggest why. Perhaps a not so good post processor?
The fact that the servo has a backdrive torque almost the same as the rated torque says to me it is pretty dam good.
Super quality machining
Genius!
Great video !
what software do you use?
The 3D modelling was done in Fusion 360.
@@girvaw and Mach3? or?
@@Arjan-swets Linux CNC
Hi does anybody know if robotarticulation still exist ? Because they don't respond to my inquieries. Thanks
Great video! The Fusion CAD files have an error though due to permissions being denied. Could you re-upload?
Thanks ! I'll let you know when the 3d model is fixed and re-uploaded to Grabcad.
Great Idea. The grabcad .f3d file missing a and c axis
Well done
bir şeyler hayal eden 3 eksende de işini görebiliyor. hayatın bütün alanlardaki sanatlar ile daha rahat bir şekilde meşkul olanlar 5 eksenli cnc de kullanmak istiyebilir tabi. keskin ekipmanlar işi dahada kısa sürede görebiliyor tabi. bir gözleme göre kız veya erkek arkadaşlarıyla beraber böyle çalışmalar yürütenlerin daha başarılı olduğu görülmüş.
Thanks William.briliant
Great job sir thanks
Counter bored, not sunk?
do you sell this 5 axis? thanks
Hi. No, I just made it for use in my home workshop. It has turned out to be very useful for a variety of tasks.
@@girvaw could you make me one I pay for it as long as I can afford the price. Thanks
@@walkbehindtrimmer_attachment Hi. Thanks for the proposition! Unfortunately it would not be viable to produce these commercially with my lightweight machines. In addition, hand scraping is very time-consuming so a surface grinder would be required.
@@girvaw that will be ok and not a big issue - I can manage to surface my wast-board to be even and flat - me me one and I pay for it
I am not getting firmware for 5 axis kindly please me out from this
South African accent coming through
2x630(+tax) euro