Nice video, and I love the sand idea (method 1) :) maybe a few notes: During the annealing process the Tg doesnt change (it is intrinsic to the material) I think you were more referring to the heat resistance increase (maybe referring to its HDT or VST). I would highly not recommend using 100% infill, the shrinkage is not mainly depend on the infill pattern but rather the polymer orientation which means the printer path, 100% infill is more for supporting the structure when heating up above Tg, but the more material the worse the dimensional change. And maybe a last quick point is that the sand is not going to prevent part deformation (shrinkage) it will only act as a support for the part when the temperature will be in between Tg and Tc :) I hope this can be as useful for your community as your great videos :) (I would also explain the innovation behind the HT PLA which i guess is playing with an optimize nucleation process to allow the crystallization during the printing process, allowing it to enjoy better resistance during the annealing process :) )
for hundreds of years, cultures have baked food in a salt crust. Basically, what you are doing in this video, but with salt. It works very well. I am going to be trying it with cornstartch, baking soda, washing soda, and maybe something else.
As in the kitchen, the salt must be WET. When is backed It will be hard like rock. I have cheched PLA with salt for 40 minutes and 140 Celsius ( 284F) degrees and left slow colding. PLA seems fine.
I wouldn't use anything used for food processing to work with your print jobs. Even if it doesn't harm you, you can be sure that you'll taste it in your food.
@@GreenGreen-bo5qe Pla prints emits a lots of tinny particles, so dont sleep.in the same room whith yuor printer print.Maybe today yuo dont feel nothing, but remember, its a matter of time an exposition.
@@noway8233 one time i was printing pla+ at 230c and i sat inside the room for a few hours, i started to feel sick and nauseous and i think it was the filament. Since then ive had a makeshift enclosure with a duct and fan exhausting air outside. Best ghetto box ever.
Does anyone have any tips for heat treating metal fill pla? I just purchased a sintering/vacuum/muffle furnace with the intention of making these parts/items a ton more durable. Trying to get a little info to help guide me along.
I am still waiting for an all around good engineering filament. The best at the moment is PETG in my experience. It prints easy enough and does not suffer as much from warping. However, PETG is too flexible. I wish I could print something like PC as easily. My ideal filament would be: 1. something that prints without an enclosure 2. Good up to 100 C at least 3. Maybe reinforced with fiber 4. Stiff This is why I think the future I'd desktop aluminium printing. Aluminum is orders of magnitude better than FFF plastic
In my experience, carbon fiber PETG is significantly stiffer than regular PETG and may be what you're looking for out of stiffness, but I haven't put it through any thermal tests. - Alec
@May the Schwarz be with you there are some special filaments that can be acquired that allow one to print in FDM but you take the print and throw it in some sand in a crucible and heat it to crazy Temps. The original substrate gases off and you are left with mostly metal. As you can imagine the technique tends to warp the living hell out of the print amd it isn't priced low enough to accommodate failed/test prints.
I'm gonna try this on a PETG print tonight and see what happens with this solid part. It's ALREADY strong, but I think it will be virtually indestructible and in order to damage my part, you'll have to break it INTENTIONALLY. I have desert sand and a metal can.
The safe way to play it is to get a separate oven for non food items. They are cheap enough and you can use it for other for non food fun, like warming up CDs just enough so you can cut them without them shattering to make dazzling mosaics 😊
Timely video as I was just getting ready to anneal some PP HTPLA. It was for an object that had various different thickness and widths. Needless to say the different areas all shrunk differently so the piece is not even usable any more. I was hoping to get a shrinkage ratio so I could adjust the print accordingly. Does the HTPLA offer any improvements for temperatures without annealing?
Annealing is NOT "stressing your 3D prints". Its the exact opposite. Its done to relieve internal stresses.
Nice video, and I love the sand idea (method 1) :) maybe a few notes: During the annealing process the Tg doesnt change (it is intrinsic to the material) I think you were more referring to the heat resistance increase (maybe referring to its HDT or VST). I would highly not recommend using 100% infill, the shrinkage is not mainly depend on the infill pattern but rather the polymer orientation which means the printer path, 100% infill is more for supporting the structure when heating up above Tg, but the more material the worse the dimensional change. And maybe a last quick point is that the sand is not going to prevent part deformation (shrinkage) it will only act as a support for the part when the temperature will be in between Tg and Tc :)
I hope this can be as useful for your community as your great videos :)
(I would also explain the innovation behind the HT PLA which i guess is playing with an optimize nucleation process to allow the crystallization during the printing process, allowing it to enjoy better resistance during the annealing process :) )
Hi,
do you have a blog/Reddit or something?
I’d love to read more of what you write. I think there’s not enough stuff on 3d printing science.
for hundreds of years, cultures have baked food in a salt crust. Basically, what you are doing in this video, but with salt. It works very well. I am going to be trying it with cornstartch, baking soda, washing soda, and maybe something else.
As in the kitchen, the salt must be WET. When is backed It will be hard like rock. I have cheched PLA with salt for 40 minutes and 140 Celsius ( 284F) degrees and left slow colding. PLA seems fine.
@@JuanPab521 why must it be wet? Wouldn't it be the same as sand if it were dry?
" I am going to be trying it with corn startch, baking soda, washing soda" How did you go?
@@johncrow5552 no one ever does what they say they will do
Do either of the PLAs outgas during annealing? Would it be safe in a standard oven that is also used for food preparation?
I wouldn't use anything used for food processing to work with your print jobs. Even if it doesn't harm you, you can be sure that you'll taste it in your food.
@@GreenGreen-bo5qe Pla prints emits a lots of tinny particles, so dont sleep.in the same room whith yuor printer print.Maybe today yuo dont feel nothing, but remember, its a matter of time an exposition.
@@noway8233 one time i was printing pla+ at 230c and i sat inside the room for a few hours, i started to feel sick and nauseous and i think it was the filament. Since then ive had a makeshift enclosure with a duct and fan exhausting air outside. Best ghetto box ever.
Does that also help for painting? In that sense that the paint would stick to the plastic better after it's been annealed?
Instead of sand, i would use salt as it can be dissolved in water, making it easy to remove
i wonder if cornstarch would work or even baking soda
@@LT72884 salt has a relatively high melting point.
@@brianfoster7064 exactly. Baking soda does as well. If you bake baking soda at 450, it turns to washing sods.
@@LT72884 I think they might absorb the plastic more once it's hot enough, so something hard and very fine-grained might be best.
@@LT72884 Corn starch is flammable, I would be very hesitant to use it.
Does anyone have any tips for heat treating metal fill pla? I just purchased a sintering/vacuum/muffle furnace with the intention of making these parts/items a ton more durable. Trying to get a little info to help guide me along.
Think green sand (sand used for sand casting metal parts) would work well?
What if you put the print in sand, and then heated it in a pressure cooker. Would the pressure help to hold the part in it's original shape?
Looking to print some shelf pegs. Would you recommend this for that? Does annealing help with shearing?
I am still waiting for an all around good engineering filament. The best at the moment is PETG in my experience. It prints easy enough and does not suffer as much from warping.
However, PETG is too flexible. I wish I could print something like PC as easily.
My ideal filament would be:
1. something that prints without an enclosure
2. Good up to 100 C at least
3. Maybe reinforced with fiber
4. Stiff
This is why I think the future I'd desktop aluminium printing. Aluminum is orders of magnitude better than FFF plastic
In my experience, carbon fiber PETG is significantly stiffer than regular PETG and may be what you're looking for out of stiffness, but I haven't put it through any thermal tests. - Alec
@@MatterHackers I would love to see a fiber filled PETG from matter hackers at an affordable price, maybe 50 usd per kg.
What about PC PETG blends?
There is an affordable aluminum 3d printer?
@@firearmsstudent no, there is not
@May the Schwarz be with you there are some special filaments that can be acquired that allow one to print in FDM but you take the print and throw it in some sand in a crucible and heat it to crazy Temps. The original substrate gases off and you are left with mostly metal. As you can imagine the technique tends to warp the living hell out of the print amd it isn't priced low enough to accommodate failed/test prints.
Is it cold in studio?
Salt might be a good sub if you don’t have sand.
Good ideas. Thanks for the vid
Wonderful idea, I might try this while I'm trying out everything during this learning phase
Does this work for Polymaker PLA Pro?
What type of fine sand should I use
I'm gonna try this on a PETG print tonight and see what happens with this solid part. It's ALREADY strong, but I think it will be virtually indestructible and in order to damage my part, you'll have to break it INTENTIONALLY.
I have desert sand and a metal can.
Is my oven after doing this still foodsafe or do y'all use a separate oven
The safe way to play it is to get a separate oven for non food items. They are cheap enough and you can use it for other for non food fun, like warming up CDs just enough so you can cut them without them shattering to make dazzling mosaics 😊
Would this be good for prints that might sit in a hot car?
This would work well for that. I've seen tests comparing non anealled and anealled and without the treatment, plastic melted. Anealled was fine though
Grinded salt tend to be better than sand.
instead of sand would perlite work?
Perlite grains are usually too large in size
Timely video as I was just getting ready to anneal some PP HTPLA. It was for an object that had various different thickness and widths. Needless to say the different areas all shrunk differently so the piece is not even usable any more. I was hoping to get a shrinkage ratio so I could adjust the print accordingly.
Does the HTPLA offer any improvements for temperatures without annealing?
Yes. I was the 50ith like
100 percent infill...? Nope! Annealing is a pass for me.
PRE HEAT PLA, i USE A BISCUIT TIN 3 HOURS AT 62 c THEN TUrN THE SPOOL OVER AND REPEAT 62 c FOR 3 HOURS tHIS hELPS STOP SNAPPING... OPPS cAp LOCKS ON
Anybody used 999999 top layers instead of 100% infill?
yessss
Yeah, Cura do that automaticaly when yuo set infill to 100%, an honesty i dont like it, cause i like to have top layers..
This guy looks like a he’s ever baked
You talk wayyyyyyyyyyyy too fast buddy. SLOW down pal, you're not in a speech race, you're here to educate us
Either drink a cup of coffee or play the video at .5x.
Will it work on Makerbot MethodX? On tough pla [slate grey]?