Some kind folks have done additional testing and replicated this with a handful of other characters (falcon, spacies, dk, pichu), so this definitely isn't ganon specific like the video says! It looks like there's an interaction between the size of the box you put someone in + what height the grabbed character ends up at, so there's likely a wide variety of combinations.
I have a theory for why this might be happening: When you grab Ganon, he's 'standing' on a block, which is destroyed when you pummel him. Maybe his state isn't set to airborne yet for some reason, so the game thinks he should be on the ground, on that block. Then, a 'new' block is spawned, but games are often programmed in a way to re-use objects... so maybe it takes some properties of the previous block, or replaces it in memory, meaning whatever pointed to the old block now points to the 'new' block. And what pointed to the old block? Ganon's intended floor, so Ganon thinks he's supposed to be standing on that block. Many games with moving platforms have some kind of a 'follow ground' function, which mainly helps characters and objects move with any moving platforms beneath them. For example, if a platform moves left 1cm every frame, then any objects 'standing' on it also need to move left 1cm every frame. A similar function likely exists in Melee, so maybe it thinks the ground/block beneath Ganon moved really far up and to the left because the 'new' block up there is somehow the same as the block that was just destroyed, so Ganon follows the block like a moving platform. I hope that makes sense. As for Bowser and Pichu: We can see Bowser is still in his grounded grabbed animation after getting pummeled, which could mean he's big enough that he still detects the second/further block as ground beneath him. As for Pichu.... I have no idea. Maybe the ceiling really is involved somehow.
Some folks theorized a very similar explanation on reddit and I think it's highly plausible. I've gotten responses saying it replicates on certain matchups other than Ganon v. Ganon, so it definitely has something to do with the position of the person getting grabbed. Given that it happens on both sides and only when a new block spawns in, I think the "reused block" theory is much more likely than my original guess about the game not knowing where to put someone (which was more or less based on how Source handles those types of interactions).
Yeah that was my guess is the game just wants to keep ganons ecb on the “same” block no matter where it spawns. Ecb’s have weirdly specific characteristics, so other characters don’t always behave how you’d expect based on size alone. Super neato find!
so while we're at it, some time in 2015/16 my brother and I discovered that if you do a grounded up b as ganon on the left side of dreamland from right below the platform onto the platform & get hit with a doctor mario pill as you're passing through the platform, ganon will teleport to where he started the up b. it happened once in a match by accident and we were like "what just happened" and then we were able to successfully re-create it a few minutes later. This was like 8/9 years ago though so i'm a little fuzzy and exactly which frame ganon needs to get hit.
I was not recording, and I cant do it again, but I managed to teleport DK, but the setup aint the same. You need to break one more block (the one under DK)
The reused asset theory is my first guess, glad that someone else said it. It's probably similar to stale reference manipulation (SRM) in OOT and MM, where a pointer for to an object is loaded while the object itself unloads, then a new object is put into that position in memory and the stale reference to the old object now points to the new object and the game follows the pointer to the new i ject and incorrectly places ganon in the wrong block. Just my best guess tho
![[CS2] Silver 1 is a Magical Place](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5zpeN2caKWI/mqdefault.jpg)
Some kind folks have done additional testing and replicated this with a handful of other characters (falcon, spacies, dk, pichu), so this definitely isn't ganon specific like the video says! It looks like there's an interaction between the size of the box you put someone in + what height the grabbed character ends up at, so there's likely a wide variety of combinations.
I have a theory for why this might be happening:
When you grab Ganon, he's 'standing' on a block, which is destroyed when you pummel him. Maybe his state isn't set to airborne yet for some reason, so the game thinks he should be on the ground, on that block. Then, a 'new' block is spawned, but games are often programmed in a way to re-use objects... so maybe it takes some properties of the previous block, or replaces it in memory, meaning whatever pointed to the old block now points to the 'new' block. And what pointed to the old block? Ganon's intended floor, so Ganon thinks he's supposed to be standing on that block. Many games with moving platforms have some kind of a 'follow ground' function, which mainly helps characters and objects move with any moving platforms beneath them. For example, if a platform moves left 1cm every frame, then any objects 'standing' on it also need to move left 1cm every frame. A similar function likely exists in Melee, so maybe it thinks the ground/block beneath Ganon moved really far up and to the left because the 'new' block up there is somehow the same as the block that was just destroyed, so Ganon follows the block like a moving platform.
I hope that makes sense.
As for Bowser and Pichu:
We can see Bowser is still in his grounded grabbed animation after getting pummeled, which could mean he's big enough that he still detects the second/further block as ground beneath him. As for Pichu.... I have no idea. Maybe the ceiling really is involved somehow.
Some folks theorized a very similar explanation on reddit and I think it's highly plausible. I've gotten responses saying it replicates on certain matchups other than Ganon v. Ganon, so it definitely has something to do with the position of the person getting grabbed. Given that it happens on both sides and only when a new block spawns in, I think the "reused block" theory is much more likely than my original guess about the game not knowing where to put someone (which was more or less based on how Source handles those types of interactions).
Yeah that was my guess is the game just wants to keep ganons ecb on the “same” block no matter where it spawns. Ecb’s have weirdly specific characteristics, so other characters don’t always behave how you’d expect based on size alone. Super neato find!
@@smokedem Try it with Captain Falcon.
Flight of Ganon melee edition
so while we're at it, some time in 2015/16 my brother and I discovered that if you do a grounded up b as ganon on the left side of dreamland from right below the platform onto the platform & get hit with a doctor mario pill as you're passing through the platform, ganon will teleport to where he started the up b.
it happened once in a match by accident and we were like "what just happened" and then we were able to successfully re-create it a few minutes later. This was like 8/9 years ago though so i'm a little fuzzy and exactly which frame ganon needs to get hit.
Still finding new tech. Thanks for sharing !
Its one thing to capture this glitch and its another to replicate it but doing it with TAS is even better. I'm loving the content.
This is insane lol wild find I fucking love melee
I was not recording, and I cant do it again, but I managed to teleport DK, but the setup aint the same. You need to break one more block (the one under DK)
thank you
based
This is so awesome thanks for sharing
nice find
The reused asset theory is my first guess, glad that someone else said it. It's probably similar to stale reference manipulation (SRM) in OOT and MM, where a pointer for to an object is loaded while the object itself unloads, then a new object is put into that position in memory and the stale reference to the old object now points to the new object and the game follows the pointer to the new i ject and incorrectly places ganon in the wrong block. Just my best guess tho
sick video!
Meta redefining
Maybe you can try it with Falcon too?