There is a place for kicking and a place for jumping. Those that are against jump cues are usually those that can't develop the skill to use one. Play better safes if you don't want your opponent to use one.
Doesn't take skill to jump and hit the ball, that's the issue. I jump but only if I can't see the kick. It's a shortcut that I have no problem with but can see why people do.
@@wdiddy1 absolutely takes skill. Easy to prove that it does. People who have a problem with it should have a problem with chalk because it "takes no skill" to spin the cueball when using chalk.....
Wow you're pretty passionate about the topic of jump cues. I can't still believe this is an issue. I enjoyed some of your arguments and loved your analogies.
When you calls "doctor cue" you mean Tom Rossman? I saw him perform in Moscow about 20 years ago... It was awesome! I was just starting to play then...
The main issue I have with jumping is that the local pool halls in my area don't allow you to practice jump shots but allow them in the tournaments. I own a jump cue and can't jump because I'm not allowed to practice with it. I don't think you should allow shots in a tournament that can't be practiced between game days.
Gentry Jenkins that is a solution to getting practice. I personally don't know of any bars that would allow me to walk in and start doing jumps. Maybe if I was a regular in those places I could get a pass, but that means I have to hang out in shit holes. I'm just going to offer my garage as sacrifice to the pool gods.
Why need to ban jump cue or jump shot? If you can't jump, learn to jump. Jump cue is pretty affordable nowadays, some r even cheaper than a kamui chalk. With so many nonsense complaints, y don't just ban break cue or ban multi layered tips as well? It takes d right skills n the right tools to perform the shot.
@@TheCicakfly Jump cues are for people who can't play cusions or kick shots as well. Jumping is easy. Playing a 2 rail kick into the dead of the pocket is a real pool shot.
After reading the comments , I'm not sure how I feel. I own a jump cue and I'm pretty proficient with it. But when I was growing up in the 70-80s I learned the diamond system. We had a table in the basement and my father wouldn't shoot me unless I learned it. He told me a player has no right to half a$$ at learning something. Learn the game. When he finally came to see me shoot in a tournament I was hooked and jumped a ball with my jump cue . I missed the shot and after the match he jumped down my throat bc he told me I could have kicked the ball and kept more control of the cue ball . Now not saying he is right or wrong. He said as the game changed to speed up for TV . Is when a lot of the chess match of the game changed.
Very nice video. I do agree. I think you should go by the rules of the pool hall and/or the league. If jumps are allowed, I see no reason why the stick can't be used. If they are not, one shouldn't make a big deal about it, and do the kicks only. Pool should be fun.
I'm not saying that I disagree or anything like that. But the fact that "it's been 30 years" doesn't mean anything. Only because sth has been the same way for a long time doesn't automatically mean it's good and shouldn't be changed.
Oh yeah, one more thing. The magnetic ball, which isn't magnetic at all, would be found on a coin operated table, wouldn't be harder to jump with because of the ball itself. I would be harder to jump because of the slate, its thickness and the fact that it just lays on the frame, not bolted to the frame like a regulation table. And I can play just as good with a house cue as any two piece cue.
well again that's your opinion and not based on actual facts. I didn't even get into the balls and how they affect jumping that much. When I owned the Bunjee Brand I had over a dozen different cueballs. On a Valley bar table and even with a jump cue some of those cueballs, some of which were magnetic we nearly impossible to get off the table. I had them marked and I could make anyone who thought they were a good jumper look foolish by simply switching out the cueballs. Unlike you I have actually done quite a bit of research into the different variations of cueball, table, jump cue to understand how each combination affects the outcome of attempted shots. So much so that I have $10,000 to bet that every word I said is 100% true and can be demonstrated. So if you want to come on here and tell me I am wrong bet what you're comfortable with up to 10k and lets let neutral parties make the call when I produce the video proving what I say.
"Magnetic" balls are referred to as such because they have either metal flakes or metal cores in them that make the attractive to magnets. I was using a standard industry term as you should know if you really own a pool room.
Personally, I believe jump cues are gimmicky. It also takes a lot of tactics out of the game. Watching 9-ball before jump cues became popular was quite a bit better. However, until they are banned, gotta keep up with the Joneses I guess.
Jump cues give mediocre to good players a chance to make that shot but without a jump cues only the very best players have a chance to even jump the ball I'm cool with both types of tournaments with and without jump cues he'll give all players lasers to line up the shots only the best players will line it up correctly, right?! Hmmmm
You said it .With a thousand hours of practice you can play without the cue ball leaving the table like a real pool player ,or learn to jump in a couple of hours. If you took all the turns out of NASCAR,it would just be drag racing.
Pretty sure I didn't say that. Pretty sure I said you can learn to kick in minutes but it takes time to master the intricacies. We can BET SUPER SUPER SUPER high that a person who has never used a jump cue before cannot master jumping in a couple hours.
Kind of looks like you proved the point for actually learning the game instead of jumping. Besides, if you're forced to play on bar tables like I am (small town with no pool hall) you would see the results of idiots constantly tearing up the cloth trying jumps with bar cues. It SHOULD be outlawed in my town if you ask me! Learning how to kick and bank will make you a better player. Jumping is a convenient short cut and teaches you nothing about the game. Of course this is all just my opinion.
ALSO if you are telling me that people in your town are tearing up the tale trying to jump with house cues then the problem isn't them it is YOU and the staff in those rooms for not bothering to teach those players how to handle the cues and how to stroke properly and how to jump with a house cue.
@@jbideastoo Good lord what a stupid thing to say!!! So I'm supposed to hang out at the bar all day and night, every day, to teach all the drunks how to play? LMAO! You just lost any credibility you may have had with that statement! And... it's called cloth not "tale".
lol you are talking about bars and drunks while on a thread about jump cues in competition. In just about every bar around jumping and masses are banned precisely because of drunks playing. But any time there are capable players they generally won't bother them for jumping.
@@jbideastoo I wasn't going to bother replying but I saw an interview with Earl Strickland and he said: (th-cam.com/video/0icxfUEjbWc/w-d-xo.html) "I think it (jumping) hurts the game and takes away from more skilled players". He also said "I think they should be banned from professional pool". I think Earl's opinion carries a little more weight than yours so reply if you like but I'm done.
Those who are too lazy to study or too stupid to learn how to lock up the cue ball in a defensive shot complain about people who jump out of their weak-ass defense
@@verbalkint6702 another loser who admits that she has to use the bitch stick cause she is too lazy /too stupid to learn the game. probably the same kind of lowlife who used to scoop the ball and thought he was cool.
I'm not a tournament or pro player, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'll just say that Jumping is an art form and I enjoy watching those players who can do it well. Anyhow, I'd hate to see it eliminated from the game.
It’s a game. The rules are whatever everyone agrees on. When we play we aren’t indentured servants subject to the rules of the APA or whatever. I play in 3 leagues. No jumps allowed. This is OUR rules.
Why do great players like small pockets because it really eliminates the weaker players that's why they don't like jump cues it eliminates people without certain skills
1) The Incoming Player should have the option to give the turn back to the outgoing player if they leave the incoming player hooked. No matter if it was intentional or not. This promotes high skill shot making without playing "defense". Defensive battles are time wasters. 2) Making any ball leave the surface of the table intentionally like a jump shot or top spin into the rail should be illegal. Yes it's creative but it circumvents pool playing strategy. 3) That jumping has been introduced and players were FORCED to learn the skill does not mean it should be a part of the game. We should always REEVALUATE rules over time not blindly accept them.
Ban the jump shot entirely imo. Kicks are possible most of the time, and doing that makes the game a little more tactical which I think is a good thing. The exception is the smaller tables, where balls can become more congested. However I would also ban those. Professional Pool should only be played on 9 or 10 foot tables. Also while I am at it I would change the cut of the pockets to be more like Snooker tables. That would sort the men from the boys!
well one of the good things about pool is that it can be played in lots of forms. If it weren't for bar tables pool would be pretty much dead in the USA.
Yes the snooker pros are jumping balls all over the place. This is why there are 50 snooker pros fighting for millions and the 9 ball players cant make a living. It has become apparent to me that there has become 2 versions of EVERY game now. The SIM version and the ARCADE version. In trying to appeal to TV audiences in the 80's after TCOM came out (instead of enthusiasts) 9 ball became the fad and anyone with some hand eye coordination could master the game in a couple months and far too many lazy people became rock star pool players and now 35 years later there is a 1000 guys who are experts at 9 ball. I don't knock a guy who makes a quality product, but I will knock a profession that cannot adjust to this by inventing a more difficult game. In 2006 they tightened the pockets to identify the best players and all the American players cried, the Chinese finished top 2 and the sponsors said We OUT And as always the sponsors should make the rules since they put up the dough. The appeal of pool back in the day was not the game but the wave you rode betting and hustling on dark roomed matches on a table that has a funky pocket or roll that you have to know or b-bye money. its all fine mind you but I think most people would rather watch a expert shot compilation than a race to 5 where a 14 year old could run out Efren. I don't know what I'm talking about and starting to ramble like you..... great job
Well, snooker had the backing of the ONE MAJOR NETWORK in the 70s onward, the BBC. Pool has never had anything close in America, ever. Pool did boom in the 90s as you correctly point out but this has nothing at all to do with jump cues. Pool is diverse not monolithic like Snooker. Even Snooker though has changed equipment specs, rules and formats to appeal to audiences and keep interest at a high level. Not really sure what event you are referring to with the tightened pockets but yes in general those players who play on the tightest pockets more will do better on them than those who don't. There are lots of variables in play as to why pool in the USA is not where we would like it to be. But jump cue usage is not one of them.
John i have had a an issue open for some time on your site and it has not been addressed... its been open for over a month... just close the damn thing out... you guys were not helpful at all... thanks for nothing
Fuck, who are you Ralph Freshour ?? That’s right: A nobody. John Barton is actually an acclaimed cue case builder and an avid billiard player. Do your research next time, you fool!!
It is a tad sporadic I'll give you that, but John covers quite a wealth of information as well. And I would also say this...I could not make a better video. But maybe you can, and I look forward to seeing it for comparison.
if it were just the noobs complaining about jumping, no one would care. i think the argument for banning is because it makes another part of the game easier. you get hooked, and before you have to kick. now you can just jump. i agree it's not easy to jump, but it makes that part of the game easier. jumping is part of the game, you can not ban someone from simply jumping, because you can jump with a full cue, but people like earl say ban the jump cue, so that you limit this part of the safety game. THAT is possible, because that is just a rule and regulation on equipment, just like steroids or simple lines on a court dictating area of play. for steroids, it's not that you can't use strength, just not artificial. or for basketball courts, it's not that you can't jump out of bounds, as long as the feet and ball do not step out of bounds. These rules are just rules, it's enforceable. no one is saying it's easy to jump accurately, that's obviously not true. but like the no rail contact rule, or breaking behind the line, these rules are simply there to limit the game in a desirable way. who's to say it's desirable, that's on the consensus of all players. that's the debate, there's not right or wrong. if there was a laser to measure how high balls go off the table, then people might think about that rule, to widen the 'snooker' shot. it would rule out the chance of jumping if the ball is like 1 foot from a snookering ball, or at least limit the amount of fouls where people mishit and hit the ball blocking them :)
33:14 haha, this statement right here might break your argument :). kicking takes billiard knowledge, which is related to banks. jumping is simpler, but the execution is much harder. i don't have a stake in the argument, not a jumper, but pretty funny that you admitted it seemed like guessing. which the implication is that it's much more complicated(!), since it's not actually random, it's pure physics and execution.
The jump shot should not be banned but the jump cue should. Kicking is a much more integral part of the game than jumping. Some tournaments have resorted to jump shots with your playing cue only. I applaud them.
Then why allow any jumping at all? Or why allow any cue differences? After all it's a fact that some cue/taper/tip/chalk combinations do some things better than others...so why should any player have any sort of "performance" enhancement with his particular setup? Why not make everyone play with the exact same cue/tip/chalk setup? The jump cue is literally to jumping what chalk is to sidespin. It makes the jump shot possible but it doesn't make the jump shot by itself. Same for chalk as it makes sidespin possible but does not make the cue ball draw two table lengths.
John I'm not looking for an argument here, this is just my opinion. One can make an argument either direction. Another would be, why limit technology, just make the tables harder to play ie. make the pockets smaller, change the angle of the pocket openings to make it more difficult for the pocket to accept a ball, use slower cloth and make the players have a stroke and hit the ball hard on almost every shot, require solid shafts and take away the low deflection shafts that have made a ton of folks better players but all that would detract from the game and drive people from the game. I also think that the equipment should be standardized. Its completely asinine to have a tournament with 4.5" pockets but the TV table has 4" pockets. I don't want to limit the technology of any game as that technology makes many players better and that keeps them involved in the game which in turn keeps folks like you making a quality product in business, a trickle down affect if you will. I just believe that the game is intended to be played on the surface of the table as the game pieces are spheres.
I understand and I am not arguing so much as making counterpoints. The game of pocket billiards has been in a constant state of evolution for the past couple hundred years. In fact there was a diagram of a jump shot in a minguad book in the late 1800s if I remember that right. I simply feel that jump cues have become part of the game because the rules of the game charge such a high cost for not contacting the lowest numbered ball. They allow the player to perform that shot to the best of his ability without being artificially handicapped by the pool cue he is using. If you want the jump cue to go away then ban the jump shot and amend the rules to balance the penalty. Make all pool a call shot call safe game so that incoming players are not punished by missed shots that result in a safety. Allow players to push out of those safeties with no penalty instead of requiring them to kick to hit.
Maybe instead of playing cue I should have said full length cue. As in many of the tournaments that do not allow a jump cue the players resort to their break cue. That way the player is not nearly as handicapped by using their playing cue. I do agree with you however that all games should be call pocket, call safe. I've watched too many top players luck a ball in and continue to run out in 9 ball. Would that have changed the outcome of the match, nobody knows but there could be a change in momentum to their opponent...or not. Taking the rules back to the days prior to Texas Express in my opinion would be regressive. Texas Express rules is one of the things that gave pool a shot in the arm so to speak and got it more televised events. At one time pool was the most played recreational game played after Texas Express rules were implemented. We can all rant one way or the other but until we get one regulating body and some consistency between tours, and leagues pool in the US will continue to stagnate. If we cant get pool out to the forefront in the near future the game will never surpass a recreational sport and making living for only a few, primarily industry members from those gullible enough to think this or that will get them over the hump. I could go on and on but for now I'll call it quits.
The TE Rules didn't make pool the most played recreational game (don't think it ever was that high but I understand your point). TE Rules were done to speed up tournaments. Otherwise, there was simply no way to start a full board on Friday night and finish by Sunday. Then and now 8 Ball was the most played game in pool and TE rules at that time didn't affect 8 ball. It wasn't until much later that the BCA and WPA adopted the ball in hand rule anywhere-after-a-foul for 8 ball. And this is the crux of the jump cue argument IMO. Because the penalty for a foul is so high the player should have every chance to make a legal hit. Even with a jump cue the shot still requires skill, knowledge, dexterity, speed control, spin control, proper judgement of trajectory. In other words a jump shot requires everything that any other shot requires with the addition of figuring the angle for another dimension. Why punish the equipment makers who spent time figuring out how to create tools that adapt to the rules and which allow for a lot more shots to be added to the game? In other words, it's not a matter of kicking vs. jumping. A well rounded player masters both because both are absolutely neccesary in modern pool with modern rules. The rules are unlikely to change for the national and international organizations. But at the local level promoters can continue to drag pool down by doing things like banning jump cues. People forget that kicking was NOT a big part of the game in 9 ball BEFORE Texas Express rules. Because we could push on every shot making was more prevalent as you had to be ready to take the shot when the other player challenged after a push. Only after TE rules did kicking take on a greater importance. So when we speak of the "tradition" of the game we need to keep in mind that the rules in other decades determined how the game was played. And the rules dictating the strategy will continue to be what shapes the way players approach the game.
I think ball jumping should be banned period, and it's based on the idea that the ball should never leave the table. also jump shots heavily favor Taller players. Having to use rails favors no one. it also takes more skill to come around rails. I also think ball in hand needs to go. shit rule.
Strickland is wrong. Plus he thinks everything is killing the game of pool. right now there is a new pool tour with all the rules he wanted and he isn't dominating it. Earl is a GREAT player no doubt. I have played against him and he is an absolute savant on the table. But he is a major whiner who does nothing to advance the sport in any way. And on top of all that he uses a jump cue.
bryan sullivan no, he didn't use the type of jump cue that he rags on until after he was dropped by Cuetec. but what people don't know is that he had a cue that was 4" shorter than his cuetec playing cue but which looked just like the playing cue. so when he saw he would need to jump he just grabbed it and let everyone believe he was jumping with a standard length cue.
I agree with John here.. a player still needs to know how to jump and 'control' the cue ball. No jump cue is going to automatically do this for you. If you hate jump cues you should also hate low deflection shaft or new fast cloth...
Go back to the original game and get rid of all the BS coward rules. NO! Ball In Hand, No Roll Outs, No Safeties etc. What is now being played is cowards pool, not manly pool. Either shoot to try and make the ball every time or get your coward-ass the hell out of the game!!!
There is a place for kicking and a place for jumping. Those that are against jump cues are usually those that can't develop the skill to use one. Play better safes if you don't want your opponent to use one.
I agree...those who complain about jumping can't jump...
Doesn't take skill to jump and hit the ball, that's the issue. I jump but only if I can't see the kick. It's a shortcut that I have no problem with but can see why people do.
@@wdiddy1 absolutely takes skill. Easy to prove that it does. People who have a problem with it should have a problem with chalk because it "takes no skill" to spin the cueball when using chalk.....
Hey John . Is that a James Hanshew custom jump cue?
seems purple heart wood jumps the best
thanks for the video man. btw which jupm cue are u using? greets
@Sze Cheuk YOUNG thank you for the info.
Wow you're pretty passionate about the topic of jump cues. I can't still believe this is an issue. I enjoyed some of your arguments and loved your analogies.
what kind of jump cue is that john. is it a James Hanshew custom?
When you calls "doctor cue" you mean Tom Rossman? I saw him perform in Moscow about 20 years ago... It was awesome! I was just starting to play then...
The main issue I have with jumping is that the local pool halls in my area don't allow you to practice jump shots but allow them in the tournaments. I own a jump cue and can't jump because I'm not allowed to practice with it. I don't think you should allow shots in a tournament that can't be practiced between game days.
Thomas Odom go to shitier places to practice
Gentry Jenkins that is a solution to getting practice. I personally don't know of any bars that would allow me to walk in and start doing jumps. Maybe if I was a regular in those places I could get a pass, but that means I have to hang out in shit holes. I'm just going to offer my garage as sacrifice to the pool gods.
I go to Mexican pool halls to practice jump shots
Thomas Odom
You can always play golf. All the clubs get the ball off the green except soft hits on the putter.
Gentry Jenkins
Where are these Mexican places?
Why need to ban jump cue or jump shot? If you can't jump, learn to jump. Jump cue is pretty affordable nowadays, some r even cheaper than a kamui chalk. With so many nonsense complaints, y don't just ban break cue or ban multi layered tips as well? It takes d right skills n the right tools to perform the shot.
Right? We need to form a protest to lower the price of kamui chalk!!
Daniel Clark Hahaha, I wish too... But it lasted for 6 months or more, so it ain't that expensive honestly...
@@TheCicakfly Jump cues are for people who can't play cusions or kick shots as well. Jumping is easy. Playing a 2 rail kick into the dead of the pocket is a real pool shot.
After reading the comments , I'm not sure how I feel. I own a jump cue and I'm pretty proficient with it. But when I was growing up in the 70-80s I learned the diamond system. We had a table in the basement and my father wouldn't shoot me unless I learned it. He told me a player has no right to half a$$ at learning something. Learn the game. When he finally came to see me shoot in a tournament I was hooked and jumped a ball with my jump cue . I missed the shot and after the match he jumped down my throat bc he told me I could have kicked the ball and kept more control of the cue ball . Now not saying he is right or wrong. He said as the game changed to speed up for TV . Is when a lot of the chess match of the game changed.
Very nice video. I do agree. I think you should go by the rules of the pool hall and/or the league. If jumps are allowed, I see no reason why the stick can't be used. If they are not, one shouldn't make a big deal about it, and do the kicks only. Pool should be fun.
I'm not saying that I disagree or anything like that.
But the fact that "it's been 30 years" doesn't mean anything. Only because sth has been the same way for a long time doesn't automatically mean it's good and shouldn't be changed.
Just tell me your tournament/house rules, and I will follow them. Pretty simple.
I can't be the only one that knew that cue was gonna fall I've done it too many times
Jumping isn't part of my game for any reason.
John went kind of cue do you play with?
most of the time a Jerry Olivier with a Gilbert shaft.
@@jbideastoo
What about your jump cue ?
Oh yeah, one more thing. The magnetic ball, which isn't magnetic at all, would be found on a coin operated table, wouldn't be harder to jump with because of the ball itself. I would be harder to jump because of the slate, its thickness and the fact that it just lays on the frame, not bolted to the frame like a regulation table. And I can play just as good with a house cue as any two piece cue.
well again that's your opinion and not based on actual facts. I didn't even get into the balls and how they affect jumping that much. When I owned the Bunjee Brand I had over a dozen different cueballs. On a Valley bar table and even with a jump cue some of those cueballs, some of which were magnetic we nearly impossible to get off the table. I had them marked and I could make anyone who thought they were a good jumper look foolish by simply switching out the cueballs.
Unlike you I have actually done quite a bit of research into the different variations of cueball, table, jump cue to understand how each combination affects the outcome of attempted shots.
So much so that I have $10,000 to bet that every word I said is 100% true and can be demonstrated. So if you want to come on here and tell me I am wrong bet what you're comfortable with up to 10k and lets let neutral parties make the call when I produce the video proving what I say.
"Magnetic" balls are referred to as such because they have either metal flakes or metal cores in them that make the attractive to magnets. I was using a standard industry term as you should know if you really own a pool room.
what jump cue are you using? in The video
Seems to be a standard Henshew jump cue.
@@lanternman13 yeah looks like one of Hanshews
Cracking me up trying to figure out that 2 rail kicking method. All is good,,you handled it ok!! lol
lol sometimes it would be helpful if I would study a little before turning the camera on.
Jump cue just makes your safety play better!
Personally, I believe jump cues are gimmicky. It also takes a lot of tactics out of the game. Watching 9-ball before jump cues became popular was quite a bit better. However, until they are banned, gotta keep up with the Joneses I guess.
how so? adds a ton more shots and forces tighter safeties.
Jump cues give mediocre to good players a chance to make that shot but without a jump cues only the very best players have a chance to even jump the ball I'm cool with both types of tournaments with and without jump cues he'll give all players lasers to line up the shots only the best players will line it up correctly, right?! Hmmmm
“I’m gonna make a real quick video here about jumping...”
[37 minutes later...]
ur a lil nuts but this was informative as hell.
Oh yeah he's crazy as shit. But he makes great cases
@@RobertLandrum13 A great teacher
18:16 Rookie mistake ....18:45 ghost moves cue ..... 18:54 ghost knocks cue over ...... 19:05 Rookie Mistake #2
19:10 puts it back in same place.... oh it'll never happen again...
IT TAKES WAY MORE SKILL TO KICK SAFE THAN TO JUMP OVER A BALL WITH A F%^^% JUMP CUES. WANT TO JUMP JUMP WITH YOU BREAK OR PLAYING CUE.
I have no talent in kicking, so I depend on my wares to save the day. There is consolation in mediocrity.
You said it .With a thousand hours of practice you can play without the cue ball leaving the table like a real pool player ,or learn to jump in a couple of hours. If you took all the turns out of NASCAR,it would just be drag racing.
Pretty sure I didn't say that. Pretty sure I said you can learn to kick in minutes but it takes time to master the intricacies. We can BET SUPER SUPER SUPER high that a person who has never used a jump cue before cannot master jumping in a couple hours.
19:00 did he just break of a tip of an expensive cue there? :(
You'd think this guy would know not to lean a cue against the table like that...what a newbie...
@@rfresh1011 yep newbie.....guess you're right....
Jump cues can't be banned on any pool tournament
The Joss tour northeast doesn't allow jump cues
18:00 in... I'm outta here 🙄😴
Kind of looks like you proved the point for actually learning the game instead of jumping. Besides, if you're forced to play on bar tables like I am (small town with no pool hall) you would see the results of idiots constantly tearing up the cloth trying jumps with bar cues. It SHOULD be outlawed in my town if you ask me! Learning how to kick and bank will make you a better player. Jumping is a convenient short cut and teaches you nothing about the game. Of course this is all just my opinion.
You are learning the game. Jump cues don't replace kicking. They add to the game.
ALSO if you are telling me that people in your town are tearing up the tale trying to jump with house cues then the problem isn't them it is YOU and the staff in those rooms for not bothering to teach those players how to handle the cues and how to stroke properly and how to jump with a house cue.
@@jbideastoo Good lord what a stupid thing to say!!! So I'm supposed to hang out at the bar all day and night, every day, to teach all the drunks how to play? LMAO! You just lost any credibility you may have had with that statement! And... it's called cloth not "tale".
lol you are talking about bars and drunks while on a thread about jump cues in competition. In just about every bar around jumping and masses are banned precisely because of drunks playing. But any time there are capable players they generally won't bother them for jumping.
@@jbideastoo I wasn't going to bother replying but I saw an interview with Earl Strickland and he said: (th-cam.com/video/0icxfUEjbWc/w-d-xo.html) "I think it (jumping) hurts the game and takes away from more skilled players". He also said "I think they should be banned from professional pool". I think Earl's opinion carries a little more weight than yours so reply if you like but I'm done.
Ban the glove 😆
those who are too lazy to study or too stupid to learn how to use the rails , use a jump cue so they can feel like they have skills..
Those who are too lazy to study or too stupid to learn how to lock up the cue ball in a defensive shot complain about people who jump out of their weak-ass defense
@@verbalkint6702 another loser who admits that she has to use the bitch stick cause she is too lazy /too stupid to learn the game. probably the same kind of lowlife who used to scoop the ball and thought he was cool.
I'm not a tournament or pro player, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'll just say that Jumping is an art form and I enjoy watching those players who can do it well. Anyhow, I'd hate to see it eliminated from the game.
It’s a game. The rules are whatever everyone agrees on. When we play we aren’t indentured servants subject to the rules of the APA or whatever.
I play in 3 leagues. No jumps allowed. This is OUR rules.
No jumps or no jump cues?
you should see the argument in english 8 ball having 2 shot foul rules.
Agree 100% with everything you said.
Why do great players like small pockets because it really eliminates the weaker players that's why they don't like jump cues it eliminates people without certain skills
No, it's because this fucking game is trying to become like Russian Billiards... that's why.
1) The Incoming Player should have the option to give the turn back to the outgoing player if they leave the incoming player hooked. No matter if it was intentional or not. This promotes high skill shot making without playing "defense". Defensive battles are time wasters.
2) Making any ball leave the surface of the table intentionally like a jump shot or top spin into the rail should be illegal. Yes it's creative but it circumvents pool playing strategy.
3) That jumping has been introduced and players were FORCED to learn the skill does not mean it should be a part of the game. We should always REEVALUATE rules over time not blindly accept them.
I'm in favor of getting rid of the JUMP CUE but not the JUMP SHOT with a full cue....JUMP CUES make it to easy for players with no real jumping skills
Full cue, correct? So, it is suffice to say that I can use my Break Cue to jump?
Ban the jump shot entirely imo. Kicks are possible most of the time, and doing that makes the game a little more tactical which I think is a good thing.
The exception is the smaller tables, where balls can become more congested. However I would also ban those. Professional Pool should only be played on 9 or 10 foot tables.
Also while I am at it I would change the cut of the pockets to be more like Snooker tables. That would sort the men from the boys!
Dave SigningOut i agree with that!
well one of the good things about pool is that it can be played in lots of forms. If it weren't for bar tables pool would be pretty much dead in the USA.
or just play snooker only.........
Dave SigningOut don't be so mad you never learned to jump a ball.
Yes the snooker pros are jumping balls all over the place. This is why there are 50 snooker pros fighting for millions and the 9 ball players cant make a living. It has become apparent to me that there has become 2 versions of EVERY game now. The SIM version and the ARCADE version. In trying to appeal to TV audiences in the 80's after TCOM came out (instead of enthusiasts) 9 ball became the fad and anyone with some hand eye coordination could master the game in a couple months and far too many lazy people became rock star pool players and now 35 years later there is a 1000 guys who are experts at 9 ball. I don't knock a guy who makes a quality product, but I will knock a profession that cannot adjust to this by inventing a more difficult game. In 2006 they tightened the pockets to identify the best players and all the American players cried, the Chinese finished top 2 and the sponsors said We OUT And as always the sponsors should make the rules since they put up the dough. The appeal of pool back in the day was not the game but the wave you rode betting and hustling on dark roomed matches on a table that has a funky pocket or roll that you have to know or b-bye money. its all fine mind you but I think most people would rather watch a expert shot compilation than a race to 5 where a 14 year old could run out Efren. I don't know what I'm talking about and starting to ramble like you..... great job
Well, snooker had the backing of the ONE MAJOR NETWORK in the 70s onward, the BBC. Pool has never had anything close in America, ever. Pool did boom in the 90s as you correctly point out but this has nothing at all to do with jump cues.
Pool is diverse not monolithic like Snooker. Even Snooker though has changed equipment specs, rules and formats to appeal to audiences and keep interest at a high level.
Not really sure what event you are referring to with the tightened pockets but yes in general those players who play on the tightest pockets more will do better on them than those who don't. There are lots of variables in play as to why pool in the USA is not where we would like it to be.
But jump cue usage is not one of them.
John i have had a an issue open for some time on your site and it has not been addressed... its been open for over a month... just close the damn thing out... you guys were not helpful at all... thanks for nothing
And who is this guy? He's all over the place...no focus...jumping from topic to topic...takes 9 mins to get to the subject title...
Fuck, who are you Ralph Freshour ?? That’s right: A nobody. John Barton is actually an acclaimed cue case builder and an avid billiard player. Do your research next time, you fool!!
It is a tad sporadic I'll give you that, but John covers quite a wealth of information as well. And I would also say this...I could not make a better video. But maybe you can, and I look forward to seeing it for comparison.
if it were just the noobs complaining about jumping, no one would care. i think the argument for banning is because it makes another part of the game easier. you get hooked, and before you have to kick. now you can just jump.
i agree it's not easy to jump, but it makes that part of the game easier. jumping is part of the game, you can not ban someone from simply jumping, because you can jump with a full cue, but people like earl say ban the jump cue, so that you limit this part of the safety game. THAT is possible, because that is just a rule and regulation on equipment, just like steroids or simple lines on a court dictating area of play. for steroids, it's not that you can't use strength, just not artificial. or for basketball courts, it's not that you can't jump out of bounds, as long as the feet and ball do not step out of bounds. These rules are just rules, it's enforceable. no one is saying it's easy to jump accurately, that's obviously not true. but like the no rail contact rule, or breaking behind the line, these rules are simply there to limit the game in a desirable way. who's to say it's desirable, that's on the consensus of all players. that's the debate, there's not right or wrong. if there was a laser to measure how high balls go off the table, then people might think about that rule, to widen the 'snooker' shot. it would rule out the chance of jumping if the ball is like 1 foot from a snookering ball, or at least limit the amount of fouls where people mishit and hit the ball blocking them :)
33:14 haha, this statement right here might break your argument :). kicking takes billiard knowledge, which is related to banks. jumping is simpler, but the execution is much harder. i don't have a stake in the argument, not a jumper, but pretty funny that you admitted it seemed like guessing. which the implication is that it's much more complicated(!), since it's not actually random, it's pure physics and execution.
What the hell are you even talking about
Watch it again if not clear.
The jump shot should not be banned but the jump cue should. Kicking is a much more integral part of the game than jumping. Some tournaments have resorted to jump shots with your playing cue only. I applaud them.
Then why allow any jumping at all? Or why allow any cue differences? After all it's a fact that some cue/taper/tip/chalk combinations do some things better than others...so why should any player have any sort of "performance" enhancement with his particular setup?
Why not make everyone play with the exact same cue/tip/chalk setup?
The jump cue is literally to jumping what chalk is to sidespin. It makes the jump shot possible but it doesn't make the jump shot by itself. Same for chalk as it makes sidespin possible but does not make the cue ball draw two table lengths.
John I'm not looking for an argument here, this is just my opinion. One can make an argument either direction. Another would be, why limit technology, just make the tables harder to play ie. make the pockets smaller, change the angle of the pocket openings to make it more difficult for the pocket to accept a ball, use slower cloth and make the players have a stroke and hit the ball hard on almost every shot, require solid shafts and take away the low deflection shafts that have made a ton of folks better players but all that would detract from the game and drive people from the game. I also think that the equipment should be standardized. Its completely asinine to have a tournament with 4.5" pockets but the TV table has 4" pockets. I don't want to limit the technology of any game as that technology makes many players better and that keeps them involved in the game which in turn keeps folks like you making a quality product in business, a trickle down affect if you will. I just believe that the game is intended to be played on the surface of the table as the game pieces are spheres.
I understand and I am not arguing so much as making counterpoints. The game of pocket billiards has been in a constant state of evolution for the past couple hundred years. In fact there was a diagram of a jump shot in a minguad book in the late 1800s if I remember that right.
I simply feel that jump cues have become part of the game because the rules of the game charge such a high cost for not contacting the lowest numbered ball. They allow the player to perform that shot to the best of his ability without being artificially handicapped by the pool cue he is using. If you want the jump cue to go away then ban the jump shot and amend the rules to balance the penalty. Make all pool a call shot call safe game so that incoming players are not punished by missed shots that result in a safety. Allow players to push out of those safeties with no penalty instead of requiring them to kick to hit.
Maybe instead of playing cue I should have said full length cue. As in many of the tournaments that do not allow a jump cue the players resort to their break cue. That way the player is not nearly as handicapped by using their playing cue.
I do agree with you however that all games should be call pocket, call safe. I've watched too many top players luck a ball in and continue to run out in 9 ball. Would that have changed the outcome of the match, nobody knows but there could be a change in momentum to their opponent...or not. Taking the rules back to the days prior to Texas Express in my opinion would be regressive. Texas Express rules is one of the things that gave pool a shot in the arm so to speak and got it more televised events. At one time pool was the most played recreational game played after Texas Express rules were implemented. We can all rant one way or the other but until we get one regulating body and some consistency between tours, and leagues pool in the US will continue to stagnate. If we cant get pool out to the forefront in the near future the game will never surpass a recreational sport and making living for only a few, primarily industry members from those gullible enough to think this or that will get them over the hump. I could go on and on but for now I'll call it quits.
The TE Rules didn't make pool the most played recreational game (don't think it ever was that high but I understand your point). TE Rules were done to speed up tournaments. Otherwise, there was simply no way to start a full board on Friday night and finish by Sunday. Then and now 8 Ball was the most played game in pool and TE rules at that time didn't affect 8 ball. It wasn't until much later that the BCA and WPA adopted the ball in hand rule anywhere-after-a-foul for 8 ball. And this is the crux of the jump cue argument IMO. Because the penalty for a foul is so high the player should have every chance to make a legal hit. Even with a jump cue the shot still requires skill, knowledge, dexterity, speed control, spin control, proper judgement of trajectory. In other words a jump shot requires everything that any other shot requires with the addition of figuring the angle for another dimension.
Why punish the equipment makers who spent time figuring out how to create tools that adapt to the rules and which allow for a lot more shots to be added to the game? In other words, it's not a matter of kicking vs. jumping. A well rounded player masters both because both are absolutely neccesary in modern pool with modern rules. The rules are unlikely to change for the national and international organizations. But at the local level promoters can continue to drag pool down by doing things like banning jump cues.
People forget that kicking was NOT a big part of the game in 9 ball BEFORE Texas Express rules. Because we could push on every shot making was more prevalent as you had to be ready to take the shot when the other player challenged after a push. Only after TE rules did kicking take on a greater importance. So when we speak of the "tradition" of the game we need to keep in mind that the rules in other decades determined how the game was played. And the rules dictating the strategy will continue to be what shapes the way players approach the game.
I think ball jumping should be banned period, and it's based on the idea that the ball should never leave the table. also jump shots heavily favor Taller players. Having to use rails favors no one. it also takes more skill to come around rails. I also think ball in hand needs to go. shit rule.
My friend is only 5"5' n he can jump very well...
@@TheCicakfly he's fortunate
The ball leaves the table on all forceful shots.
Jump cues ruined pool.
I agree with Earl Strickland....jumping is killing the game of pool.
Strickland is wrong. Plus he thinks everything is killing the game of pool. right now there is a new pool tour with all the rules he wanted and he isn't dominating it. Earl is a GREAT player no doubt. I have played against him and he is an absolute savant on the table. But he is a major whiner who does nothing to advance the sport in any way. And on top of all that he uses a jump cue.
John Barton of course he uses a jump cue...he forced to.
bryan sullivan no, he didn't use the type of jump cue that he rags on until after he was dropped by Cuetec. but what people don't know is that he had a cue that was 4" shorter than his cuetec playing cue but which looked just like the playing cue. so when he saw he would need to jump he just grabbed it and let everyone believe he was jumping with a standard length cue.
Is that you Earl? :-)
I agree with John here.. a player still needs to know how to jump and 'control' the cue ball. No jump cue is going to automatically do this for you. If you hate jump cues you should also hate low deflection shaft or new fast cloth...
Nut case buddy
TALK TALK TALK AND NEVER SHOW JUMPS.
pat pugliese - It’s a rant.... what did u expect?
boring
Go back to the original game and get rid of all the BS coward rules. NO! Ball In Hand, No Roll Outs, No Safeties etc. What is now being played is cowards pool, not manly pool. Either shoot to try and make the ball every time or get your coward-ass the hell out of the game!!!