Tubular Track Tutorial - Lionel, Marx, and More
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2021
- O gauge. O27. O42. O72. What does it all mean? What kind of track do I need?
Episode 61: With dozens of manufacturers making O gauge trains for over a century, many terms have changed meanings over the years. The jargon can be very confusing for a beginner in the hobby - or for someone who has been away from the hobby for a decade or two.
This video attempts to answer the basic questions about tubular track.
Things that I knew once upon a time, forgotten in the depths of memory. Know remembering again thanks to this video.
You're welcome. That's why I started this channel. So much information that was once common to the hobby is being lost as digital control takes over.
One of the best explaination I've found to O-27 "VS" O gauge. Very charming explained! THANK you!
I think the O-27 (or whatever radius O-...) looks a bit better because it's finer. Also the ties looks nicer/ slim.
Although I like the black ties more than the brown.
I my opinion the O or 0 (zero) gauge is the best scale (~1:45) outdoors, indoors.
I have Amercian Flyer S gauge, but more because they made better technics than Lionel.
Or let us say they were more inventive. T-trackprofile 2 track AND A.C. (great!) and the T even in tin-steel and not as a ful profile.
Cordially
Géréon
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
Literally every feature you pointed out I audibly said something along the lines of OH MY GOD THATS SO COOL. Man I fucking love trains
:-)
Thank you. As a child I was completely baffled by what 0-27 was and now, some 50 years later, are just starting to have the cloud of confusion lifted. Dear god like the teal railroads, government should’ve intervened and standardized what is “0”!
Even though each manufacturer had its own proprietary systems, a great deal of standardization took place in the O Gauge world. I use Lionel, K-Line and Marx track mixed together on my O27 layout. Since the 1970's, most couplers are compatible, and even in the 1950's Kusan and AMT made Lionel-compatible couplers [Marx was the weird one in that vein]. I'm amazed that I could run a Lionel locomotive from 1917 and an MTH locomotive from 2021 on the same layout if I wanted to!
Some things of note: The O gauge track was also made in 054 as well. I often wondered why the regular straight sections were shorter on the 027 as compared to the 0 standard gauge straight. I think the answer is geometry. When making a figure 8 crossing the parts have to fit, if they were longer they would not fit without having to have pieces cut to make it fit. Maybe that goes back to the Ives 027 design as well. Also in reading other comments, one has to be wise when using mixed other brands and different radius curves to have the correct crossover. A 027 crossover will not fit correctly with standard 0's shape. There are different cross overs for different brands and track lengths so having the right one or the correct radius curves does matter.
Cutting tubular track is easy to do, and is sometimes necessary even if you use a single brand and track radius. For example, try making an 027 using O42 curves (O27 profile) and you MUST cut track because half sections of O42 curves are not available. Thanks for the comments!
BTW ....027 was not only Lionel's cheaper track.. Lionel's 027 train sets and other rolling stock labeled 027 was actually "S" gauge with "O" gauge trucks.
027 was designed as cheaper sets for little boys who were not aware or did not care about the scale mismatch. They were just happy to get a Lionel train set.
Well, not always. Many "O27" items are actually O scale (1/48) such as NW2s, F3 (some were marketed as O27) GP7/9 (ditto F3), 2 bay hopper car, N5C caboose, and others.
Tubular track is great for kids' layouts on the floor that will be taken up and put down frequently because it's rugged.
Something like Lionel Fastrack is good for a permanent layout because it looks good, but doesn't handle being connected and disconnected a lot and the pins get loose over time from repeated connecting.
I do the opposite. I use tubular on my permanent layout and MTH RealTrax on my display layouts!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Interesting. I never used MTH RealTrax. It must handle constant connecting well. 🙂
Cool thanks for the info and video
Happy to help!
Mike I enjoy your videos I have a hodgepodge of tubular track marx 027.gauge Lionel 027.gauge fastrak and menards o gauge tubular track
Thank you!
Excellent presentation for anyone (like myself) expanding my electric train hobby to include O gauge, as well. 😊
Thank you!
Another great video, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Menards makes a 090 curve track. It's huge.
I seem to remember years ago pins that were transitions from O to 027 . Two different sizes on one pin. When I was a kid I had both
I am unaware of O/O27 transition pins, but connecting the two types is pretty easy. Use the pins in the O27 section and insert them in the larger O31 hole. Then shim the O27 ties to match the O31 rail height. I have done this successfully in the past when I needed a #6019 O27 uncoupler but I only had a UCS on hand. I made it fit.
Just found your channel, I liked and subscribed. I started with the hobby back in the early 80s. Started with O-27. Found much more regular O. Most of my layout is regular O. I actually have some 0-96 mainly for the big boy. O-96 I have with on fastrack.
Wow! I wish I had room for O-96 and a Big Boy! But my O42 curves and small Hudsons work for me. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
Well done! Very good explanation. Do know that Lionel made turnouts for O27 track with 42" curves. I prefer the smaller profile rails on my layout Nd the larger locos run well over these switches as well.
Yes, Lionel and K-Line made O42 turnouts for O27 profile track - I use them on my layout. Thanks for watching and for the great comments!
Personally wish they'd start making O-27 track again, particularly switches. It's great for getting a layout in a small space.
Lionel says they may resume O27 production if the supply dwindles and the demand rises. They make track in very large batches, and if it takes 5-6 years to exhaust the supply, it's not worth it. Meanwhile, there is plenty of O27 available on the secondary market.
Ebay
@@Chungustav
A good enough source, I suppose, but a lot of used track is in poor shape from heavy use or improper storage, have to be careful what you buy.
Lionel made switches for O27 with 42" curves. They can be found on Ebay and at trsin shows very reasonably priced.
@@richardsobieck9660
The wider diameter sort of defeats the point, as I use the 27" diameter curves and switches to save space.
I use what ever track that i have marx Lionel or menards i use menards. O gauge track only on my new layout i like menards track because i can buy it by the case or by the piece i run with a 54 degrees radius circle
Well done.
Thank you!
So - all else being equal (which it's not, but bear with me), the majority of O-gauge equipment can navigate a curve twice as tight as the smallest commercialy available HO-guage track? And 15" radius curves are nowhere near negotiable for the majority of HO-guage equipment!
I can't resist the following pun: Totally tubular, dude!
Yes, but there are trade offs - "swinging pilots" on locomotives and truck-mounted couplers that make train handling very difficult on reverse moves.
I have a bunch of Lionel tubular, but also have a bunch of k line shadow rail, and really love it, and keep my eyes open for it at all shows. Both are tubular, and fit together no problem, I just prefer the k line because of the plastic ties which I never have any issues with shorting due to bad insulation on center rails which I've had on really old track. I like the tubular since I have a number of engines that are magna traction. Good video.
Shadow Rail is great if you can find it!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks , one thing I just thought of... I used to clean my track with alcohol, but switched to surface prep ( a automotive paint product) because it doesn't have any water in it, and keeps metal from rusting) been using it now for a couple of years now and am very happy with the results
I run my orange track cleaning car once a month to keep things happy. Just a thought...
@@bsalightning69 Excellent tip!
Thank you very helpful
I've noticed that Marx O27 track is virtually identical to that of what Ives used before being bought out by Lionel. Sakai made a track that looked like a combination of Lionel and Marx (using the double hole ties as Marx/Ives, while also using rails and pins identical to Lionel). The O27 track piece you've shown at the beginning might be Sakai, assuming those are the original track pins. Interestingly enough, Ives also made a banked 27" diameter curve, but in traditional O gauge tubular track profile, I have a few of them lying around.
Thanks for the information. The piece in question is Marx (it came in a boxed Marx set) with Lionel pins. I have a pair of Sakai turnouts and they, like Sakai trains - look like Lionel/Marx hybrids. I saw a photo of the Ives banked track years ago in an issue of CTT, but I've never seen them myself - neat!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Thanks, I found the Ives track as well as a couple of A.F. O40 curves at a hobby shop, well buried amongst a large pile of old Lionel track. They were pretty well rusted until I cleaned them up. The rails are nice and shiny again, and I'm currently in the process of repainting the Flyer ties.
If you haven't already done so do you think you could make a video like this about the switches as well?
This clears a lot up for me
Glad to be of help. There is a lot of confusion out there!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I have been in model trains for 20 years HO/N and still was completely unaware of the differences in O
Tinplate O and O-27 is easy to use and install, you can cut it into any length you want, and by adding ties and ballast and painting it, give is a creditable look. Bring it back!!!!!
Menards makes O tubular track.
I am a newby! Thanks for posting this!
Happy to help!
Nice to hear you refer to the zero gauge historical context. Really puts the age of the trains into the early pioneering days, it's good.
Anyway, your thoughts please: admittedly I haven't any O to try, however I believe that proportionally, O31 is identical to standard in geometry.
Right, back to your thoughts; the 90 degree crossing, with two standard turnouts (standard is 210, 223 etc, same as the O31 turnout) placed curve to curve, the crossing being on the straight. Period Catalogues depict this arrangement fairly regularly.
Problem is, it doesn't work - the crossing being sized for a figure 8.
Did kids just assemble layouts with large gaps between the rails? Did lionel depict their layout designs without checking if they actually could be assembled? Did no one care?
For all peoples grief about 3 rail tinplate toy train track, theres something quite magical about it. And it works.
Fantastically enjoyable channel by the way, so good to hear someone who is so knowledgeable, and actually has a clue about toy trains from the past.
If you're interested even postwar Marklin were still labeling what we today know as HO as "null null", this being zero zero, catalogues obviously referring to gauge O as spur null (gauge zero). The originators bing just named it table top, Henry Greenly (the proginator) seemingly to vaccilate between OO and HO for the same product.
Anyway, keep up the good work
Well, there's a lot to digest there. As far as the turnout/turnout/90 degree crossing layout, I cannot say for sure regarding standard O or Standard Gauge, but I know it works for Lionel O27 because I have done this many times on different layouts. As far as rail "gaps", well - there is often a bit of "wiggle room" in 3 rail track, so sometimes the layout designs were "close enough". Thanks for the comments!
Show us how to replace Lionel coupler some of my nickels will not open. Thanks
my 2 Maerklin Electric low voltage O Gauge trains run just fine on Lionel 27 tracks...
Good to know!
Thanks for writing Märklin corretly as Maerklin! ä= ae, ö= oe, ü= ue
Just came across this vid Mike. I seem to recall you saying the early F 3 locos with horizontal motors won't negotiate 0-27 curves. I passed on. New York Central for that reason. Could you clarify. Hope you had a great July 4
There are two parts to the answer. First, the original version of the 1121 turnout featured a different motor housing than those of 1954 and onward. Once the turnouts were redesigned, some F3s were considered O and some O27 for marketing reasons, but both will navigate the modern O27 turnouts. As for the original horizontal motors, Lionel marketed these strictly as O gauge models. While I do not own any of these myself to test, I have been told by knowledgeable operators that the horizontal motor trucks have less lateral motion available to them and thus they struggle with O27 curves. I hope this helps.
Gargraves track and Ross custom switches are all american-made and cheaper than what Atlas charges for stuff made in China. Weaver made great 0 scale freight cars and locomotives in America cheaper than what other companies we charge for their crap made in China. I wish someone had taken over and continued Weaver's line of trains.
Checking their web pages, Atlas O lists a remote O72 turnout for $136. Ross Custom lists an O72 remote turnout with the DZ switch machine at $126. Cheaper, but not by much.
The Marx 21 FT diesels require 036, which they manufactured as well 👍
I know that Marx made O34 curves (I use them on my home layout), but I did not know the #21s required them. I thought the #21s used the same drive as the E7s, which I run on O27 with no problem. Thanks for the info!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks my apologies, 034 is correct (036 is super o if I recall correctly), I had a pair of 21s and they did not negotiate the 027 curves, the E7s did fine on 027
I got tired of my Lionel Fastrak and sold it all. I have boxes of Lionel and K-Line 027 profile. Then I started a new 96” by 77” layout and I needed 42” curve and now I’m buying Menards O gauge track.
I so very much wish that someone made 0 to 027 mating pins. I guess that Lionel made it years ago.
Insert O27 pins into the O ends and shim the O27 ties to match the O height. Solder feeder wires if necessary for electrical continuity.
I have a question - I am thinking about buying a Marx O27 train set - how do I use Marx track clips? I think they are supposed to hold the track together if you are not permanently mounting it.
Hmmm...I know that Marx made track clips that attach to straight track sections, but I have never seen them installed so I am uncertain as to how they actually work. Lionel's track clips connect to the track ties, but they are incompatible with Marx ties. A solution I have used for temporary layouts is using small zip ties to connect the track ties together. You can either run the zip ties around the track ties or through the nail holes in the ties depending on the size of zips you have.
How is all that track labeled as I am getting ready to get my fathers old 027 train and I know that some of the track is mixed up and I intend on going through all of it and straightning it out and keep it that way
The track really isn't "labeled" per se (except sometimes it may say "Lionel" on the crossties). O27 profile track is shorter, just as in the diagram on the thumbnail. Have fun with the trains!!!
It's interesting when we start to discuss the differences, which seem so simple, that things get complicated. Several postwar Lionel engines and passenger cars will not clear a Lionel 027 switch motor. Marx engines, because the wheels were geared all the way to the flange will not navigate Lionel switches. The manufacturers must have had specific tables developed so developers would design engines and cars to work on specific track systems. BTW, on my 1948 vintage layout I made the trolley line out of 027 track to simulate the light rail used for trolleys. Fun.
Marx motors WILL run through Lionel O27 turnouts made before 1952 (before the #1122). Prior to that, Lionel's O27 turnouts had no guardrails. For Lionel, the incompatibility with Marx was a plus - "If you buy those CHEAP Marx trains, you can't run them on your friends' Lionel layouts. That's why you need a REAL Lionel!" (And then they undercut their own argument with the Scout line and their weird couplers.)
From what I have heard, Marx single reduction motors won't clear, but double reduction ones will clear a Lionel switch motor.
I have an old issue of model railroader magazine from the 1940s an advertiser advertises a sheet metal type of roadbed that Lionel track dress fits right into and makes it look so much more realistic as well as the pieces lock together so you can hang your layout on a wall when you are done playing with it back when you played with trains. I called a guy who used to offer rubber roadbed for standard gauge track and he was done with it and he offered me the machinery to produce it for free. If I was thirty I'm might have taken him up on it because there are lots of people who have nice standard gauge layout and the rubber roadbed is similar to what American flyer made for it s tinplate track. I was at a train show and I purchased a whole suitcase full of standard gauge track including some switches and a crossing for $20. I like to get standard gauge cars and locomotives for decent prices not sky high BS collectible prices. I believe if I am not mistaken that Marx made track up to 0-54. I have a almost complete circle of their 042 track . M a r xo-27 profile track is better than lying else because it has more ties per piece of track making it look more realistic if lional had any less than three ties holding their track it would fall apart. There was an American flyer commercial on TV where a guy steps on a piece of Lionel track picks it up showing it being deformed and promoting its lack of quality. This was one of the reasons they Rush super-0 into production prematurely. Super o gauge track was 0-36 so you could use the atlas track planning books in making your layout. I still have some of those when they were priced at $2. My dead uncle gave them to me. Back when he was still alive I mean you know. I had an outside layout with some old American made lional track and some new Chinese made lional track and the chinese-made track turned black and crumbled away in 6 months forcing me to redo the layout. It also did not conduct electricity very well and I needed 5 lock on to make sure electricity got all the way around the layout. Imagine The pride you had in the old days working at Lionel trains and in one day you could make 800 train sets. After WWII because the Russians did not pay us any of the 11 billion dollars we gave them to fight the Nazis everything tripled after the war in price. Lionel wanted to continue to pay employees pre war wages so people had to strike to get a decent paycheck nowadays they would just shipped the whole factory to China and you would be out of a job. Frankly for what the manufacturer's charge for crap made in China where they pay $2 an hour they could make the trains and everything here but they would make less profit because they would have to pay their employees a wage they could live on. This was also the reason for the Nationwide railroad strike in 1947.
I have a wiring question how could I wire two tracks into one accessorie say a crossing gate or a gate man
On on-off type accessories like the gateman and crossing gate, it's really pretty easy. Wire one terminal of the accessory to your constant voltage "hot" power. On each of the two (or more) activation tracks, create an isolated outside rail [On tubular track, unfasten the metal ties and insert a spare track insulator, strip of paper, or small piece of electrical tape around the rail where the tie goes on one of the outside rails. Then reattach the ties. Add an insulated track pin to each end of the isolated rail. You have now electrically isolated your outside (common) rail.] Run a wire from the isolated outside rail to the common post on the accessory. [For multiple tracks, attach EACH of the isolated rails to this post]. When the train(s) passes, the metal wheels will complete the circuit from the regular outside rail to the insulated rail and complete the circuit to activate the accessory.
It's similar to this, except this shows the accessory running on track power. For your application, you want constant voltage so the power from the multiple tracks do not cross-feed. So, the wire going to the center rail connection in the diagram goes to accessory power instead. photos.app.goo.gl/xXqcwy9J1FVdWHpf6
What radius is the new Fastrack?...what would an older "The General" train set run on?
Lionel FasTrack is O-36, meaning it has 36" Diameter curves. By the looks of it, The General could run on O-31, as that's the standard curve for "Standard O".
Original Generals could also run on O27.
How do you make a quarter turn with 0 gage track? I assume you have to cut it.
O27 and O31 track have 4 pieces to a semicircle. No cutting required for a quarter turn (45 degrees).
My dad and I have a Lionel southern pacific gp9. We have been unknowingly running it on O27 for years but I just read the box and it said 31 was the minimum. It has had a couple of repair issues, could this be from us running it on tract that is too small? Is running to big of a train harmful to the track and/or the train?
Regardless of what your box says, Lionel GP7/9/18/20/38 locomotives run fine on 027 track. The only potential repair problem I can think of when continuously running on tight curves is traction tires may wear out faster. Otherwise you should be fine. (There are SOME "scale" GP9s made a few years ago, but they require FasTrack (036) at a minimum rather than 031).
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks thanks for the reply. What will I need to look out for if I buy a bigger locomotive but want to see if it runs well on o27? Will it still run but just be harmful to the loco or will it just be impossible to get around the curves?
If it's too large it simply won't navigate the curves without derailing.
For O27 the following Lionel Postwar and MPC diesels will work: 44 ton, NW2, FA, F3, GP7/9/18/20, U36B, industrial switchers. Also the GP-38 will handle O27.
@@FredFred2476 you should hunt up the kaline Big boy locomotives they came out with in the 90s. Very well-proportioned nice-looking locomotive I ordered one and forgot about it until it was delivered a year-and-a-half later they wanted $100 restocking fee so I kept it in the box but when I do my 027 layout underneath my o gauge layout it will be the star of that layout. I remember the train magazines in there review of the locomotive lamented why did not make it also in American flyer to rail track because 027 is basically S scale. With three rails instead of2 rail.
I have very rusty track. Any suggestions?
Assuming your track is not attached to the layout, white vinegar works great. Watch: th-cam.com/video/IJs9aRtoOCs/w-d-xo.html
How come the tracks look all rusted?
The rails have been painted to make them look more realistic.th-cam.com/video/VXZHq2AgBcE/w-d-xo.html
And some pieces ARE rusted because they have been in my "junk box" for years.
Lionel was a cheap bastard the old gauge track is really standard gauge Rail and ties space to oh Gage. I find the 027 to be much more realistic with rail height and Thai size. The marks of 42 has more ties per track than Lionel and looks better. I only use tubular track on storage shelves and for yard tracking. I like the mic train house solid rail track with roadbed. I find solid rail more realistic.
Just a minor correction: Marx wide radius track is O34, not O42. Thanks for watching!
But don’t try to force O gauge track pins into O27 tubes... most likely will split the metal.
Correct. O27 will fit inside O, but NOT the other way around.
and it will be made in China for the next 100 years....?