FM Match Engine Creator Reacts to YOUR Clips
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2021
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The Football Manager match engine is the stage on which the drama of the game is played out. I do sometimes jump around after signing a wonderkid, but the most dramatic moments when I’m playing FM on stream are when the transfers we’ve made and the scouting we’ve done comes to fruition on the match engine itself. There is also the slight problem of football manager glitching out, which is usually referring to the match engine too. I decided to have Nic Madden on, the guy that actually makes the match engine, to make sense of these weird things we’re seeing.
We take your dramatic match engine clips and glitches on the football manager Reddit and talk through what pieces of FM are in play to make this visual spectacle take place. The answers could help your save, or just help your tactics adapt to what you’re seeing. This was also a glorious opportunity to ask all those burning questions about SI and FM that I had never had the chance to ask before. So, for everyone that says I’m making stuff up, this is a chance to hear the facts from the person who makes the match engine - take that football manager trolls.
Much Love,
FM Senpai
Podcasts:
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#FootballManager #Gaming #Hashtags - เกม
FIFA: ugh sweaty goal
FM: OH MY DAYS HES ACTUALLY SQUARED IT
Just never happens😭
So relatable 😭😭😭😭
"that is breathtaking" he says
in my country in fifa or pes that goal its not allowed to score that way either you shot it or cross it to a teammate
Lies! Doesn't happen in FM! Video proof or it didn't happen! 🤣
The shooting when there is a player right in front of the defender "issue", ive never seen it as an issue. Im a Man Utd fan, Rashford and Martial do that like 8 times a game.
still an issue to be fair! 🤣
Rashford not Martial
exactly, I don't see why people see it as an issue if players irl do it all the time
It's Antonio's preferred approach having created his own chance and ran toward goal too
Not to mention can be influenced by tactics and player preferred moves.
Nick: Teamwork
Every FM player: WRITE THAT DOWN!! WRITE THAT DOWN!!!
Now i play Kante and Lingard as a striker duo
What exactly teamwork does is the biggest mystery of football manager
@@Xsawerus thankfully it was answered in this video
@@Xsawerus Concentration too
@@davidrichards613 concentration and a lot of mental attributes i ignore too
This guy is the Bob Ross of football. The way he speaks so calmly "in this video". I'm dead.
Even Nick was shocked when the ball was squared.
My favorite part of the matchengine: When players shoot over the bar, and they actually look like they are leaning back.
My least favorite part: When defenders on the counter just stand by, do a few slow backsteps, and let attackers run past them. Once they are behind them, the defender starts to sprint.
That second part is reasonaby accurate its just not particularly well animated in the engine. I feel most issues people have are down to the way they're displayed in game and not the actual situations themselves
The 2nd part is supposed to simulate the attacker defeating the defender 1v1 but due to lack of animations they just run it Also happens when player are standing and attacker phases across him its supposed to show the attacker dribbling past the defender
@@branthall1787 just imagine fm with fifa/pes animations fifa will go bankrupt
@@issamasghar5203 fm would go bankrupt trying to incorporate those graphics with their complex game system
So what i learned from this is that concentration is a very important attribute👀
Everytime and everywhere! :D
Every attribute is important for different scenarios. People think the game is flawed because they literally have some wonder kid with insane tech and physical stats and low mentals and wonder why the guy is missing sitters. I’ve always focused physical -> mental -> tech in that order and have never had issues with my tram doing dumb stuff
If the opposition cb has low concentration /decisions ,press always
Also the hidden attributes - pressure and consistency, and important matches. I imagine these are like DMs on a players actions.
"It's incredibly hard to motion capture slide tackles"
Me: Dibs on wiping out Zealand 100 times in the name of FM Science :-D
The centre back running away from the counter attack is entirely realistic - it's the simulation of Harry Maguire
LOL))))
7:35 REECE?! Zealand’s gonna throw a water bottle at you and put you in the under 18’s
You know, I watch every video and that's the first big editing mistake I've seen in months.
#PayDecreaseForReece
@@ReeceTheEditor no, you are too good and beautiful for a pay decrease. #PayRiseForReece
@@ReeceTheEditor #PayDecReece amirite?
I still think with FM, the main problem is not the match engine but the graphical representation. If the match engine looked better graphically then I don't think that people would get quite as frustrated with it.
Or the other way round. If the visual representation of the match was more abstracted, we would not notice odd details. A lot of players stuck to 2d for years because the detail in the 3d engine really showcased the strange stuff going on in the engine. When it is just a 2d circle, you can more easily fill in the blanks yourself.
Mostly true, but not for a particular bugbear of mine: Players not squaring the ball and instead trying a difficult shot from a tight angle.
@@dhauz___7855 Then get better players... with high teamwork. Also the trait looks to pass rather than score would be a benifit - and the other thing is having a yellow connector with his strike partner - i.e. he knows where his partner will be.
@@MartinSparkes-BadDragon In pretty much every save I do, even ones at lower levels of the game, I go out of my way to sign players that have at least 11 in work rate/team work/composure; decisions too if I can find players who tick all those specific boxes. If I have to make a choice between two or three players for one position when it comes to signings, I will almost always (and within reason) prioritise mental attributes over technical ones. At higher levels of the game and with bigger budgets and the luxury of only buying really quality players, I will have entire squads of players with high teamwork/work rate/decisions; they're necessary to play a high-pressing and passing game anyway.
And I honestly still feel like players shoot from bad angles too often even when I build those sorts of teams. Of course it's realistic that players will sometimes try it; there are moments when even composed, unselfish players do it in real life. I don't resent the idea of it happening at all, but in FM it happens too often. Inside forwards/inverted wingers will cut inside and taking on low-quality shots multiple times every match, when there is a striker right there or an advanced midfielder making a run into the box.
That red for tackling your own player is very realistic since it’s Newcastle 😂
It was Joey Barton's signature move.
Also is serious foul play, regardless of who is on the end of it
Some of these are proper cop out answers I’m not going to lie
"*Randomness*"
"If you think about it, this happens in real football all the time"
Yup...
11:00, after seeing that happen a lot i actually figured out the problem with testing. That CB has a man mark on a specific player that just happens to be in drop back set piece instructions, so when the ball goes forward, the CB is looking for his guy to mark, because he's in the opposite area when the ball is cleared, he sprints to mark him.
makes sense, but then the match engine is not really simulating human behaviour and rationality.. which of course is terribly hard to do. Right now in FM 2020 I am pulling my hairs out every time a player walks a ball across the line because he has to touch it, even if it would be a corner for us if he did not. It is on these occasions that such automated choices ruin the lifelike feel of a further perfectly great simulation
It's a classic SI move of bad programming overriding common sense
@@ArjanSchaeffer that one is annoying, also seen one where the ball is cleared and drops right inbetween the CB's and the GK and neither decide to go for it and just stay looking at each other while the forward runs from his own half and picks the ball completely alone. It happened like 2 times but when it does it just makes me want to smash the keyboard.
@@Snarg83 or when a ball is about to go out of bounds, the defender decides to stop it within bounds, only to actually pass it physically because he cannot stop in time and the attacker who follows leisurely picks it up, waves a thanks and moves forward, leaving the defender behind. I just do not see those occasions as 100% realistic situations. And SURE it will have happened somewhere in all the football matches in the world.. if you put thousands of apes behind a typewriter, one will cram out a word at some point.
@@James_Byron for sure, I still appreciate the work they've done and the FM21 engine is actually pretty good, i think, over all the years of playing FM I kinda trained my mind to pretend those things are just visual miscues and that the play was meant to happen some other way with the same final result. I still want to punch something at times but that illusion I give myself usually makes it better 😄
"we do have those in reallife. that has happened already"
I wasn't expecting to have PTSD flashbacks to the 2018 champions league final by watching this. Thanks guys
This was really good in parts, getting to hear some of the under the hood stuff that causes these moments, but I can't help thinking it was a missed opportunity too. Nic has clearly either decided or been told not to admit that there are any errors in the match engine. The final one where the goalkeeper ignores a ball that has just been chipped gently towards him and lets it go over his shoulder without even raising his hands is clearly at the very least an animation issue, and possibly a match engine issue that needs to be looked into. It would have been much better to hear Nic say that there's clearly some sort of issue there and he'll look into it, rather than fumbling around for a justification and settling on the fact that it's all ok because the Goalie looked sad afterwards.
Exactly this , this guys utter lack of putting his hands up and explaining the way the 3D is poor is some situations bothered me
Either he believes his own BS which is worrying , or he doesn't see it, which is worrying
I came away worried about the future.
Yeah, see this happen a lot from Penalties and Free Kicks where a ball kicked so obviously at the Goalkeeper that has to actually clip through the keeper to go into the net and be a goal happens. The keeper should have saved that, or the ball should have been deflected off the keeper as in the earlier example where a player kicked the ball into another player. There was no excuse here except this is a match engine thing that needs to be addressed for the next game. Goalkeepers are solid bodies, they are not Etheral balls should not just pass through them. But nice to see Nic trying to fumble on the spot and come up with some spin doctory to explain why this is a real and valid thing to be in the game.
Or maybe yall just completely misunderstood what he was sayin
@@nickchivers851 this
personally i think that either spending all his time working on the match engine he doesnt want to admit anything is wrong because of the trolling that sometimes happens about his work or the company want to keep their pr up and said that he cant explictly say theres a problem, instead wanting him to 'debunk' these issues. he probably has spent so long on the match engine that he can find a way to explain a way a lot of things because he knows how much he had implemented. still so cool that football can be simulated so faithfully most of the time at least
So sign players with high concentration and teamwork, got it
I'm literally a decisions merchant, a winger who can get past Sergio Ramos won't ever get on my team if he's in single digits on that stat
Next have him do the 'dubious penalties compilation' from DoctorBenjy
I appreciate what the developer said for his explanations but I think he's covering himself for a few obvious match engine errors. I get that the errors in the video have happened on a rare occasion in real life, and the match engine have programmed this in to give the game that random/human error element to the game. But there's no shame in admitting that errors like with the defender running away from the counter attack are due to the coding. Yes, we've seen players take one or two steps in the opposite direction because they've read the game wrong or we've done it ourselves when we play, but I've never seen a defender continue to run for yards in the opposite direction when being countered. Same applies to the penalty, it was purely down to the animation.
I think he's being fairly upfront about how the limitations in the match engine's simulation tick rate caused that defender to run weirdly far in the wrong direction,
@@sharpe3698 it looke to me like he was trying to play him offside but got it horribly wrong because he wasn't paying attention at the start. I agree it was exxagerated in the engine. what was interesting is zealand saying he's had it once or twice? Maybe because I've managed more and been stuck in lower leagues because I'm not very good! I've had it happen a lot more than once or twice...
Not signing any player with a concentration below 15 from now on! Great Video
Haha imagine getting offered mbappe and haaland for free but not signing them cuz they have 14 concentration🤣🤣
We need more videos with Nick Madness cause maybe finally we will understand what happend instead of guessing, cause this game dosent have any good official instruction with explanation :)
The amount of cop-out answers and justifications to shroud the errors with the engine, is just a marvel to observe.
The justifications make sense atleast
Zealand, thank you so much for this video. We’ve all had those moments with the FM engine and this vid was extremely insightful. Cheers from NZ mate!
i absolutely love the 'You've been framed' reference from him LMAO
regarding the defender and the goalkeeper kick... I think it is a bit covering up match engine imperfections to just call it concentration issues... in both cases it is just not natural.. even though 'it occasionally happens in real life'
Exactly. Just feels like excuses for what are clearly bugs. It's fine that bugs exist, but this just comes across as completely delusional.
You can give a player 20 in every attribute and they will still make awful decisions
Yep I agree 100% , too just vehemently deny that the 3D gfx and ME clash because the 3D engine and animations are shit is worrying, the crap we saw is because the 3D engine is so out of date it can only be explained as bugs and poor animation.
To try and pass it off as the 3D players representing attributes is a joke, its clearly a system of 3D that is so bad it needs a complete rewrite imo, if you can't represent players even hugging because the animations and the gfx engine can't do it in 2021 , then what Hope do we have
10:48 isn't the defender there trying to play the offside trap off of the initial header and is just late?
Edit: Oh Zealand says it at 13:22
4:00 is just Osimhen doing Osimhen things really, nothing the keeper could do.
I think I can explain what happened to the CB running away from the play. Happened to me a few times. The reason it happened with me was always that I had that particular player marking an opposition player. So whenever the possession gets overturned, the defensive player's first reaction is to mark the player he is assigned to mark. Thats why he runs towards that opposition player. However, after the long ball is played, he realises that he should probably turn and help out his defensive teammates. By that time however, the attacker is clean through and has almost scored, so the defender ends up looking like a fool. Happened to me a few times, as I mentioned earlier. Lesson here is that the you should never use the players staying back at set pieces to avoid counterattacks to mark any opposition player.
I love how in the first clip he gets surprised that the player passed the ball, it's something that now even SI expected, the match engine to work sometimes. I hope he gets a raise for coming up with such great excuses for the worst part of the game.
I totally call BS on that goal. I've managed my team in my current save for 300 matches and have yet to see a striker square a ball across the box to his open teammate to score a simple side foot. They still in my game just keep running to the goal line and trying to smash the ball into the side netting. I've even tried having some 'God' players with max attributes via the editor to see if it's an issue with intelligence, decision making, teamwork attribute etc, but no just seems in my games match engine these types of goals don't happen or haven't happened since the game first came out. I have long suspected that some of the patch and updates that came out for this game, broke some of the good stuff they initially put into the game this year, like players passing in the box instead of shooting.
@@Cwattyeso it's either a bug or a failed shot that ended up looking like a pass (or a combination of the two) cause it seems everything that the players do is more a bug than a feature. The match engine is not good enough for players to do that sort of play. Most of the clips are things that shouldn't happen, from the overused volley animation (that a 3th tier Macedonian side scores 5x every week) to the ball and other players going through the players or a red card or a penalty for a clear tackle on the ball. The match engine is clearly better, but nowhere near something that should be in a 2020 game. The video is more a of a PR strategy for SI to try to say "we care".
LOVING the guests! Gold content.
need more of this, it would also probably help him with decision making for the ai
The CB that running away from the counter attack looks like trying to do an offside trap
100%! Be interesting to know if he had use offside trap on or not, maybe if it was off he would have ran to the ball!
that was me 😅. i didn’t have an offside trap or any individual player marking instruction on, which is why it confused me so much 😂
@@josephhowes2663 no way 😂😂 that’s crazy man 😂
I absolutely loved this video potentially my faviroute video on his channel. Loved the on-site that we got today
For the cleaning out your own player part the ref couldve considered it a 2 footed tackle, most scissoring tackles arent usually considered, but there have also been several sendoffs. I also remember from taking a fifa or uefa licensed refereeing course that you could give a red card for a tackle even if it doesnt hit anyone if it is sufficiently dangerous, with ill-intentions. So even if you get only the ball, if your tackle was fast, brutal and hard enough you can be sent off, especially if your body language signified ill intentions.
very interesting thank you for that information
did u ever ref any biggish game?
Great content Zealand - more of this please. And fair play to Nick for coming on.
With the CB (5) decision making issue - I used to get this a tonne more last year than this, especially from Attacking corners and the opposition breaking.
It definitely felt like it had something to do with Man marking a specific player too, as my Defenders would run straight at the person I'd given them instructions to Mark, regardless of the defensive situation developing.
Love this video. Great to understand why the match engine behaves the way it does. Never considered decision making and concentration having such an effect in the engine.
Please do another video with him discussing like the importance of attributes and stuff like "doesn't like big matches", how much it actually effects the player :)
All my forwards will now have high teamwork after watching this video
Preach the words of our saviour
For schizzel. Sterling was so great at doing that in 20. God it pissed me off to no end 😆😆😆
So cool, great vid!
I had the same reasoning, about concentration. It's like I noticed some type of "reaction-delay" during my South-African career. I made the same argument about anticipation btw. Maybe the lack of the first even exaggerates the latter (and more attributes), as our attention-span influences our performance in real-lief aswell.
I do think that due to the amount of fm that is played we see these strange things more often than in real life
This content is next lvl! Loving it !
This is actually one of the best FM content I've ever seen on TH-cam
Not buying the red card for tackling your own player explanation... Or the defender running away from the counter attack
This was one of the most interesting videos you've done. It's so fascinating hearing it explained how and why things are happening the way they are in the match engine.
Wouldn't mind seeing a followup with even more clips
The best video you have ever made... brilliant guest.
Thanks Zealand & Nick...great insight to the game
This kind of content is the reason I’m subscribed, I’ve learnt so much from this video!
The thing at minute 10, i had that happen to me like every 2 offensive corners. Because i had both my fullbacks marking specific position (the opponent winger), when a corner was cleared, they instantly sprinted to their marker, ignoring the ball, letting the opponent striker run the entire empty half of the field. Cool match engine
One bug that I keep getting is my sub keep coming on with the away or third kit, even though my starting 11 is in the home kit
NOW THIS IS CONTENT
Great video.The randomness in FM is what make FM so good for me. And I loved the podcast. Great work Zealand.
This is an incredible video, I really liked it
Really insightful, great vid
this is illuminating. decisions + concentration are very very important
Some of those are just poor animations pure and simple, no reasoning behind it, no excuses.... the penalty for example, the ball physically went through the keeper, not his hands or arms, his body
It went slightly to the right of the keepers legs.
Great that they will talk about such things.
That's a huge credit to them and one of many reasons why I'm happy to buy this game every year....unlike the unaccountable EA and Fifa!
Plus the fact that I actually like FM.
I loved this video lol those mistakes really hit home but that red card on tackling his own player 😂😂😂
I had a match yesterday Sandhausen vs. Heidenheim. Heidenheim was 3:0 up at the first half and Sandhausen scored 7 goals in the last 30 minutes making it 7:4 for Sandhausen. Insane 😂
Thank you guys! Now I even more like the Football Manager! And tbh the Match Engine is realy awesome if you compare it to other Football Manager or even Football games like Fifa! For sure the most realistic engine on the market! Nice!
16:22 Talahassee wants it's accent back, holy moly Zealand
“It happens on real life”
famous line of the video
An example irl of the penalty happened the other night (monday) between kilmarnock and St mirren in the Scottish Cup QF. St mirrens first penalty in the shootout went straight down the middle...keeper didn't dive and still missed 🙈
4:10 this just happened in Romanian 1st league this week. CFR Cluj goalkeeper almost did this, ball went just close to the goal
Baring in mind I've gone from fm2007 to fm21 I really enjoy the match engine ,sometimes tho there is some really glitchy stupidness
Nick is a great guy!
I always go for this holy trinity of mentals:
Teamwork
Concentration
Decision making
These attributes have to be above 12 no matter the division!
Those are really useful, but can be a tough call to get in really low divisions. Teamwork is certainly one of my favourites.
11:00 Zealand aint buying that excuse LOL
This Nic Madden is lovely!
10:24 this happens for years when trying man marking. in corners, the marker running to his man no matter what. its like bug years and still continue i guess.
That Kettering goal was very DiCanio-esque!!
I love how we’re all so fascinated by a square pass for a tap in 😂. Stuff of dreams
In lower leagues offside goals happens like all the time, i don't know if it's made on purpose but it's an love or hate thing, cuz when it happens with my attackers it's total happiness and all, but with the opposite ones in the other hand...
Great video! Greetings from Austria
That was fantastic, great interview👍
As a Manchester United fan the centre back clip at 10:20 reminds me of the sort of stuff Harry Maguire does in real life, keep it in the game as its realistic.
This is mad interesting
Love stuff like this, that gives insight into how the game works.
that's a beautiful man if i've ever seen one
I had some cases in matches that my striker shoots at goal and suddenly their is a defender or a goalkeeper denying the goal but then you look at the replay and they seem to be unnaturally fast in that particular moment.
Really enjoyed video. 👍🏻
10:26 Look at Nick...
TFW you know your match engine screwed up
That's him trying to think up excuses lol
Exactly , and rather than admit its bad , he does his best to pass it off as the genius of his ME and not an appalling error.
At no stage does the graphics engine represent real life and he knows it, yet he won't say so, as soon as people won't accept a mistake I then won't accept anything he says.
What it shows is the slice of 0.25 seconds decisions is far far too slow. Its so far off the human mind, then how can this game cheaply show it with graphics that are 15 years out of date
Err guys this was a joke. Nick is a legend and he can't go criticising his dev team on all these videos.
@@Roscododger Not criticising his dev team =/= defending every single error by saying it's working as intended
@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa I agree that it's frustrating that he might not always say its an issue with the game but keep in mind the fact that if you were a dev watching this who has put hours and hours of work into this game, revamping the marking system which they did this year and your boss goes and starts pointing out issues with your work on a video with the biggest FM creator rn.
so what we learned from this is NOT to play in 3D because we might get dejected by limited animations.
Exactly, I learned they are either so shit at their job they can't make 3D ever work properly, or they are so up their own arses they don't accept there are many mistakes in 3D that they will never provide a proper game.
I was saddenend after watching this for the future of FM , maybe in 2100 a team might make that version look like 2020 graphics, in the same way we have 1995 graphics.
@@steve10 I think it's partially due to the fact that a large portion of the FM fanbase play on laptops and laptops that would be able to handle amazing graphics
@@morganbruce9087 but does that mean you have to compromise across the board, or that you have to find a way to make the graphics adaptable for every level of hardware? As I think most games actually are capable of... There are priorities in game development, I know, but it cannot be missed.
@@ArjanSchaeffer Yeah i do agree tbf. i'm gonna start using 2D to get around this
@@morganbruce9087 this is why I would prefer they did away with it alltogether , I have a decent rig that could handle graphical improvements, but my enjoyment is held back , rather than a watered down gfx engine I would rather they invested more into improving things it needs.
So eloquent. I’d love to learn from this guy
yeah very good speaker, coherent and simplifies what he is trying to explain
Well done for the guy in coming on and good to see Zealand with some SI recognition. A bit more ready acceptance of some of the issues would have come across better, the explanation to why the defender runs in the opposite direction to the play is good, but it doesn't mean it looks any less ridiculous and should still be looked at. With these limited clips I know it's not possible, but the other main ME issue is losses represented by your players just ignoring the instructions they have.
What about the 100s of great tackles that are always given as a penalty kick? So many given against me and for me I just expect every time a tackle is made in the box a spot kick will be given.
It is fantastic that the FM Staff are willing to come and talk about the game with social media channels. It helps us understand the reasons behind the game and educates us, which then makes us enjoy the game even more
Good to see that Ben Foster was involved in this video
I had two of the "goalkeeper punts the ball off a striker" happen twice in the same game. I was FUMING
Your interviews are the best!
Z rockin the Fellaini in this one.
this may be a wild guess, but maybe for the video where the defender ran away from the counter, the guy might have been using offside trap and the defender might have pushed up to catch oddei offside but was busy day dreaming
Best vid yet quality
this was a fasinating video. thank you
I’ve trained all my wingers to look for pass rather than shoot to get them to square the ball instead of shooting when all I needed was high teamwork?
Absolutely great video Z.
Nic has a banging job
I love this!!! More of this please!
Hours more of this please 👍🏻