Kwaku, I’m pretty sure the millennium is the time for Jesus to make sure that all people even those undocumented will have an opportunity to accept him. They are not destined to have to wait forever
Exactly. He doesn't seem to know that... Looks like he needs to focus more on his own. Supposed religion and stop studying others until he learns his own😅😅😅
@@withkwaku Just as all of our experience on this Earth: to help us grow and become like God. It is done now to give as many people now a chance to serve and grow. He gives us this chance to participate in the work of Salvation. Every step of His plan we can say, hey it would've been easier to do it this way...but that's not the point. It would be a lot easier for me to always make my kid's breakfast, but they like helping me. It makes more of a mess, and breakfast will get made regardless of the wasted food and time. But by letting my kid help, it becomes a learning opportunity. I'm sure my kid would learn how to make an egg eventually, but the process of learning early is better.
@@withkwaku Are you serious with this question?... That their hearts may be turned towards their fathers?.... Genealogy... Service.... A christ-like act... Saving people... Isn't that the whole point of this estate? But we can't do it all. So obviously we have to do some in the millininiam 🤷.. with that line of thinking, we should just wait until the next life to get baptized as well, eh? 🤦
@@withkwaku Just remember! We are here to practice. Your points are worth considering though especially about what Jesus Christ said in the Mount of Transfiguration.
How are the dead raised if they were transmigrated? What benefit is this life if we have no memory of it in the next? Is there any urgency for repentance? After how many lives did Jesus come as the savior? Are we guaranteed to be a person when we transmigrate? Or can I be a tree? What about premortal decisions? Did they matter? Do the decisions I make to raise my children matter? Or will they simply have to live a crappy life in the next one? Transmigration relieves anyone of responsibility to do good. Agency is now only important when circumstances are bad? I’m not convinced “Do not delay the day of your repentance”
Kwaku, to address what you're saying at 7 minutes or so, it's well understood doctrine in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that temple work will continue throughout the millennium, which will be a time when both the spirit world and physical world will be able to communicate. I have to imagine that "recordless people" will simply tell us their names, and their work will be done.
This is so good Kwaku. So many good questions to ask oneself. True Enlightenment comes when we stop making excuses for a belief system we have been brought up in and allow it to run our lives in programs and patterns like robots. All belief systems should be scrutinized. We are here to awaken to our true selves our true nature. 💚
I like your thought process of what shapes ones world view, which is ones world circumstance. The concept of a loving, peaceful, selfless individual, that gives 100% to the Great Bamboo God, never knowing the teachings of the Savior, is simply preposterous.
Being born again in a literal sense in the flesh wasnt just a commandment, but a promise of a covenant. The belief isn't that those whose names were forgotten won't be saved. The teaching has always been during the millenial reign of Jesus, all those who couldnt be baptized will be able to. Its not just a ritual action. Its a literal change of the self.
The Greeks believed that u had to be righteous or whatever for three lives before you could be in their highest heaven. I really liked the Nemenhah take of reincarnation. I believe that through Christ that we will not have to “go out again.”
So how would this sort of system work? Would you just keep coming and living new lives until you “figured it out?” And how could you progress if you have no memory whatsoever of your past lives? And what if you accept Christ in one life, then reject him under different circumstances? Which counts? How would you know you’re saved? Why would God need to send you down multiple times just to figure out how things would play out for you under different circumstances? Wouldn’t an all-knowing God already know the results?
Reincarnation is only true in the sense that We live multiple lives. We lived a life before this mortal one. We live a mortal life. When we are "born again" in Jesus, we start a new life. In the spirit world we live again. And then we continue on afterward as well.
1. My experiences do not form even a part of my identity since I could have had different experiences. 2. If my experiences do not form even a part of my identity, why would they tell me anything about who I am? 1. I am something that is identified by its tendency to act in different ways in different situations. 2. I'm not formed by my experiences. 3. I'm therefore determined to act in different ways in different situations since I could not have chosen otherwise. 1. I do not have knowledge of my experiences in my past lives. 2. So I cant learn from my experiences in my past lives. 1. God knows everything. 2. Therefore there is no need for God play these games. 1. My goal in life is to know myself. 2. I'm not determined by my experiences. 3. Therefore it seems like there is part of me that is determined to act in certain ways and a part of me that seeks to know "the algorithm of me". Reincarnation is incoherent and certainly not a Christian idea. But this idea that we are passive watchers of the movie of ourselves does kind of separate us from this realm which is the gnostic and eastern way. We come to realize that we are essentially not part of this world and therefore we are emancipated.
Kwaku, great video as usual. I would love to see a video with you and Lance Weaver together expanding on this topic. I assume you’re aware of some of his writings on reincarnation . I also love the reference you made to the phrase found in the Book of Mormon “to go no more out”. I had read those verses so many times growing up, but when I read them through the lens of reincarnation it was like a huge leap forward in my understanding and acceptance of the possible reality of reincarnation.
I remember when this first took hold for me, I was reading a conference talk (don’t remember which one) that stated we would receive all necessary preparations in mortality in order to follow Christ’s path. I wondered then “Well, how can mortality prepaid us for everything Christ did if we only go through once?” However, even with that, this discussion including mention of “day” and “sun” in a reincarnation context brings new light to this from the Sermon at Bountiful, 3 Nephi 13: 34: “Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient is the day unto the evil thereof.” If seen in light of reincarnation, it seems to suggest that focusing too much on the “morrow” (or even worrying about previous “days”) may distract from the tasks at hand. This “day” has enough trials to focus on as it is.
I’ve mentioned this on Twitter, but you might’ve missed it so I’ll ask it here too: When the Apostles saw all things and asked to “come speedily into [his] kingdom” (D&C 7: 4-5, 45: 2-3; mirrored by the 12 disciples in 3 Nephi), the scriptures say they “looked upon the long absence of your spirits from your bodies to be a bondage.” If they would have been reincarnated after death without specifically requesting this of Christ, where would the long absence fit? And if they had already lived so as to “go no more out,” why would they need to request this? Having said this, these are good points, verses I haven’t considered before. I’ll definitely review them in their original Hebrew to see if these interpretations still fit. This is a topic I’ve considered and researched a lot, and I appreciate the renewed discussion! (Though, to touch on a new point, didn’t Elijah directly ascend in a chariot? Or was that symbolic where most of your points are to be taken literally? For what it’s worth though, I don’t think him ascending would prevent reincarnation, it was just an odd argument.)
This is a great video! I enjoy your insight. Being raised in the church, I naively held to a literal interpretation of the scriptures. This lead to a faith crisis that led me away from the church (and main line Christianity in general). I began studying Esoteric Christianity and eventually I stumbled on two articles that changed my mind about Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith and Kabbalah The Occult Connection and Joseph Smith America's Hermetic Prophet. Both by Lance S. Owens. These articles opened my eyes to a new way of looking at Mormonism and the possibility of reincarnation. Especially since reincarnation is found Jewish Mysticism.
Also, here are a few things that have been rattling around my head for awhile. Not saying they are true. Just food for thought. The Adam-God theory has a lot of similarity to the Kabbalistic teaching of Adam Kadmon. And Kolob also has a lot of similarity to Keter. First of the ten sefirot in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Lehi's vision of the Tree of life in the 1st Book of Nephi has a lot of esoteric symbolism contained in it as well. :)
Many people criticize Joseph Smith for stating that Elias and Elijah appeared in the Kirtland temple. If this is the same person/messenger in 2 consecutive visions, how do you make sense of “for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us?” Can you be translated and still be transmigrated?
Brigham young, Eliza R Snow, Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt (to name a few) and Joseph Smith all taught this to varying degrees in early days. Sadly the doctrine has been all but lost to modern LDS understanding. It’s also in a handful of resurrection texts in D&C and in other special places when it uses the term “eternal lives” (plural) Once studied in detail … it makes an incredible amount of sense with Adam, Christ and other glorified beings intervening for the salvation of men on earth because how did they gain their glorification in the first place?
Reincarnation makes more sense to me than many other propositions on what happens to a soul at death. One life is clearly not enough for a person to get things right, before having their true character judged. That being said, the New Testament can be, and has been used to promote many and sundry ideas, some of which cut against the case you made from the verses you shared to support reincarnation. Maybe that is what Jesus meant. Many things are possible. Yet if it was, how did Christianity lose the plot so badly? Interesting topic, Kwaku. Keep it up.
Reincarnation is distinct from transmigration. Reincarnation is not a truth taught by the Church of the Firstborn, nor is it part of the teachings about the Kingdom within us or the Kingdom from which we came.
@@withkwakuAre you trying to convey that we are born into a completely new body that didn’t exist before? Are you suggesting that the body we had before coming to Earth is different from the one we inhabit now, and that our body after death will also be different?
@withkwaku Belief in a reincarnation to another human in another life does have impacts on the nature of our covenants and the nature of key doctrines like the atonement, final judgement, and exaltation. The true doctrine is we will be continuing to improve forever in Gods kingdom. The question then is why do people get insight into past lives. My answer is we spiritually ministered to previous generations in the spirit world under Gods hand and our souls carry that memory of us ministering to past humans. Just my thoughts
If correct, this proposal seems to suggest that final judgement will be based on our cumulative set of experiences. ie: its OK, that someone in South America didn't get to know Jesus 2000 years ago because at least one of their reincarnations will have the opportunity to become Christian. Do you think the reverse is also true? As long as someone was a Christian in one of their past lives, is it non-critical that they become Christian in their current life? ie: If Thomas Aquinas's soul is currently living as a Buddhist Mongolian shepherd, has he already locked in salvation from his past life experiences?
This is great to see you coming to this realization about reincarnation, Kwaku. These teachings have been around for many years though. How is that you are just discovering this now?
Kwaku, I see what you're saying, but it does seem like a lot of cherry-picking cost out in left field, to mix metaphors. But I have some follow-up questions, to entertain your discovery: 1. Are you saying it is not important (or not necessary) for a person to learn of Christ and be converted to His gospel, but only to progressively learn the attributes thereof even without His name? 2. If a person does have to be converted to Christ, is there a successive life where God just says, "meh, you're close enough, you can learn the rest from the afterlife missionaries"? 3. How many lives does it take, and where is the evidence of people reaching their full reincarnated potential? I can think of only a few handfuls of people who seem Christlike enough in the last few generations, namely, for example, LDS leaders, mother Teresa and Fred Rogers. How many lifetimes do you think it took them, and are the other billions of us just too beginnery? (I'm not trying to be facetious, I really am curious how you approach this). As satirical as it is, the TV show *The Good Place* ends its series with an afterlife model of people in the Bad Place correcting their mistakes in mind of a reincarnated way (though they're just repeating their own lives with glimmers of how to get it right) until they earn the Good Place. Your video somewhat reminded me of this. But how far along the path does a person have to be in order to be worthy enough, and does your model conflict with the model of three kingdoms of glory?
Kwaku, I am a traditional Christian and believe this. My close friend who is LDS is writing a book on this topic. I would like to discuss this with you.
Thanks Kwaku. I completely agree with you. It's amazing that when you realize that reincarnation is true, you begin to see it EVERYWHERE in the scriptures. There is strong evidence that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others knew of this doctrine (read "Teachings of the Doctrine of Eternal Lives" by an anonymous LDS member of faith). The gospel makes more sense with reincarnation considered, and also gives us a sense of urgency to follow Jesus Christ. Hundreds of NDEs affirm reincarnation, even the countless stories coming from a Christ-centered perspective. We can't simply write-off these experiences, but should at least consider this as a possibility. With this new information, we should have nothing to fear.
If John and Elijah are the same reincarnated spirit, when Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery saw John the Baptist and then later Elijah, did they see the same physical body? As far as I know neither of them said they looked the same. I think that would have been astounding and something they would have remarked on if John and Elijah appeared to be the same person.
I think this is where Elias as a calling comes in to play. Jehovah had a pre-mortal body, name and calling before he came as Jesus. If a Prophet wanted to speak with Jehovah and Jesus at different times, he could. One would have holes in his hands, the other wouldn’t. They would look similar but could also be one spirit sharing two bodies. Same with Elijah.
Perhaps there are "recombinant spirits". Perhaps you are the only you that will ever exist, but "you" is actually a unique recipe of pre-existing spirits sent to this world to be perfected. Maybe "you" are not reincarnated but a slightly different recipe is sent down to Earth for the next go round? Eventually the recipe is correct, and the life lived is sufficient, and that version of you gets to move forward to the next level, as Enoch did? I don't necessarily believe this, but it is one of the more creative ideas I've had that seems to still conform to scripture. I would like your feedback now that you appear to be exploring all possibilities.
Ive often times entertained the thought that since our spirits have existed from the very beginning, maybe we've inhabited multiple bodies before this life, not like oh i was alexander the great, but perhaps in the universe before this one. Perhaps I born a member because in the last universe, my spirit had accepted the gospel in its existence. Idk man my brain no does good think.
Can the pre earth life help us understand a little of why we have been born into different situations? In the pre earth life everyone that would come to earth put there faith in Jesus. This mortal life is the test of seeing if we seek out the good without knowing it’s good for us. Everyone has a different level of accountability based off there knowledge, but none can gain exhalation without covenant bond with Jesus Christ. Jesus will make sure everyone has the opportunity to get in the millennium? Why do we need multiple lifetimes if we lived in God’s presence before and followed him, and built our character as best we can in this life and then after are given the knowledge of Jesus we where not given opportunity to receive.
Mommy!!!!.... Kwaku is scaring me again! ... He's going culty again! 😬 I've always thought this way about reincarnation. But according to our beliefs, as I was always told by members, is that we don't believe in reincarnation.... So I just left that idea alone and took it as not doctrine. But now!!!????...😬😳 ....I got a lot to think about!!! Now it makes me think more outside our doctrine.... Could it be that maybe Jesus has lived many lives in another world, to gain His experience, obedience, patience, worthiness, perfection to take on the role as Our savior and put into motion Our Heavenly Father plan of salvation etc.???? Where would Jesus attain such sacrifice and dedication to a life of serving others without sin? From what I understand is that we were sent here on earth to attain physical bodies, to experience physical life and everything that pertains to living in the physical.... Something that the spirit form could not provide. So Jesus must have been given an opportunity (or opportunities) to experience physical life to prepare for the role of our Savior for this earth I mean, after listening to this video, one could only assume that this could actually be possible.... right????
I love this topic and I believe in some form of reincarnation myself. Although I really struggle with the sin and forgiveness aspects due to my own religious trauma in the church, but have you wondered if the Church would censure you or threaten discipline for departing from the church's mainstream theology here?
Very interesting. I definitely don't think 85 years on earth can dictate our eternity. To me, even a full life isn't enough time to grow, change. That puts limits on Christ's Atonement and upon our divine potential as children of God.
In your example, the "privileges" of this world are actually obstacles to the Spiritual journey. Christians are called to die to the world. The comforts and possessions in the girl's case arouse the passions and make it harder for her to live by the Spirit. The poor and forgotten don't have this problems. Of course that doesn't mean they don't have other problems/passions of their own to overcome. The point is that the things of the world are never advantages in the Spiritual life.
John the Baptist says he is not Elijah John 1:21 which is interesting. Elias was the Greek name for Elijah the forerunner of the lord, so he simply was that, the greatest high priest ever according to Christ! Forget this Aaronic priesthood stuff, he was a high priest the greatest one. All high priest WHERE a type and shadow of Christ, no more need for the type and shadow after Christ tore the veil, the real deal came and changed everything . Alma 34:32-36 paints a very different picture of multiple mortal probationary states, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed, it is interesting that it says the righteous shall go no more out, was Elijah to go out again? No he was righteous I presume. Does that mean the unrighteousness will have to go out again? Same scripture says if we procrastinate repentance until death the same spirit is on us at death and Christ spirit withdraws the final state of the wicked you are the devils. We are either free or captive in outer darkness or with God no 3 kingdoms . I do sympathize with how unfair life circumstances for many seem to be! It does seem unjust! But I think of the parable of the laborer in the field everyone got the same reward no matter how long they labored and it was just, there is no deserving from anybody in any circumstances yet Gods grace surpasses all understanding! We must grab hold of every thought, for not all thoughts belong to us, some of God, some of men, some of the devil, we must discern between the spirits and thoughts that come to our subconscious mind. The message of those scriptures is to repent, this is his doctrine to be born again of fire and Holy Ghost is a new life, while in this life, a new creature in Christ, not being born of physical nature again and again and again. Christ warns us of adding to his doctrine in 3 nephi11 being born again becoming like a child, Repenting . I don’t think I have met that requirement or the signs would fallow. What does it gain us to believe in reincarnation? To think we can deny the spirit within and get another shot. The same scripture in alma it talks about God not dwelling in unholy temples (not the lds kind of temple) the real temple, his creation not ours! The hearts of the righteous, he wants our hearts our will this is to be born again. Coming from a guy who is not! Lol
On the idea of God testing people by placing them in other places, what need have He of this? He has perfect infallible foresight of all things. He knows all things from the beginning to the end of the world. Proverbs 15:11 KJV, “Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?” Psalm 139:2 KJV "Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off." Isa 64:10 KJV "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
For some sects of Christianity, Heaven is the temporary waiting area until the Earth is renewed and we all live again. If we're in a cycle of reincarnation until the end times, then what purpose does Heaven serve? Purely for pre-existence and divine beings?
This is Awesome! Thank You! I have always secretly thought of this. But the LDS church was against this. Being "BORN AGAIN" or changing for the better is more important than the physical ceremony of Baptism. CHristian Religions put too much emphasise on the physical action vs the spiritual. Also I found out that Jospeh Smith taught when we die and get sent to the momron degrees of heaven Stars, moon, and the sun celestial kindoms.(why do we walk in each room/kingdom in the temple?) We are not damned to those kingdoms meaning we can always progress! Someon told me that Gods love is so unconditional he will not stop until everyone he can gets exalted. Thats the God I want to follow not a condemning daming ignorant and obedient Mormon God.
Despite thinking Kwaku is ridiculous and d-baggy a lot of the time, I like the general notions behind this video . I'm disgusted by people like Mark E. Peterson who use privilege to claim superiority--the notion of getting a different turn in different environments really does make a lot of sense. Let's all take a second to remember that Adam didn't inherently have his own form, and God had to choose a form for man in the Bible, so who is to say our physical human form is extremely inherent to us? When Rusty Nailhead goes to third world countries and says ignorant things like 'oh if you paid your tithing your country would be richer, God loves some more than others," it makes me want Rusty to be born into extreme poverty in his next life. Great stuff Kwaku! Mike Winger did a tiktok/TH-cam short that said people who believe in Reincarnation have a darkness enter their eyes them. And my only thought was: there's a lot of fairness inherent in Reincarnation that doesn't seem to be there in traditional Christianity, and the notions behind reincarnation can humble you in a way, so if anything it should bring more light into your eyes...
Very thought provoking take on some scriptures, and it reminds me a lot of that Andy Weir short story "The Egg". However, I don't think the evidence you've provided is compelling enough to convince me yet, especially considering the fact that this concept of transmigration of souls raises far more questions than it answers, at least to me.
based and glorious, anyone who doesnt know that the ancient jewish people practiced and believed in reincarnation... Gilgul (also Gilgul neshamot or Gilgulei HaNeshamot; Heb. גלגול הנשמות, Plural: גלגולים Gilgulim) is a concept of reincarnation or "transmigration of souls"[1] in Kabbalistic esoteric mysticism. In Hebrew, the word gilgul means "cycle" or "wheel" and neshamot is the plural for "souls." Souls are seen to cycle through lives or incarnations, being attached to different human bodies over time. Which body they associate with depends on their particular task in the physical world, spiritual levels of the bodies of predecessors and so on. The concept relates to the wider processes of history in Kabbalah, involving cosmic Tikkun (Messianic rectification), and the historical dynamic of ascending Lights and descending Vessels from generation to generation.
Reincarnation is no crazier than any other possibility really. All believe all will be saved or find God in the end, maybe reincarnation has something to do with this.
Kwaku, I’m pretty sure the millennium is the time for Jesus to make sure that all people even those undocumented will have an opportunity to accept him. They are not destined to have to wait forever
Exactly. He doesn't seem to know that... Looks like he needs to focus more on his own. Supposed religion and stop studying others until he learns his own😅😅😅
Then what is the point of doing it on Earth, if it can be done during the millennium?
@@withkwaku Just as all of our experience on this Earth: to help us grow and become like God. It is done now to give as many people now a chance to serve and grow. He gives us this chance to participate in the work of Salvation. Every step of His plan we can say, hey it would've been easier to do it this way...but that's not the point.
It would be a lot easier for me to always make my kid's breakfast, but they like helping me. It makes more of a mess, and breakfast will get made regardless of the wasted food and time. But by letting my kid help, it becomes a learning opportunity. I'm sure my kid would learn how to make an egg eventually, but the process of learning early is better.
@@withkwaku Are you serious with this question?... That their hearts may be turned towards their fathers?.... Genealogy... Service.... A christ-like act... Saving people... Isn't that the whole point of this estate? But we can't do it all. So obviously we have to do some in the millininiam 🤷.. with that line of thinking, we should just wait until the next life to get baptized as well, eh? 🤦
@@withkwaku Just remember! We are here to practice. Your points are worth considering though especially about what Jesus Christ said in the Mount of Transfiguration.
Okay, that’s enough internet for me today.
How are the dead raised if they were transmigrated? What benefit is this life if we have no memory of it in the next? Is there any urgency for repentance?
After how many lives did Jesus come as the savior?
Are we guaranteed to be a person when we transmigrate? Or can I be a tree?
What about premortal decisions? Did they matter?
Do the decisions I make to raise my children matter? Or will they simply have to live a crappy life in the next one?
Transmigration relieves anyone of responsibility to do good. Agency is now only important when circumstances are bad?
I’m not convinced
“Do not delay the day of your repentance”
Kwaku, to address what you're saying at 7 minutes or so, it's well understood doctrine in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that temple work will continue throughout the millennium, which will be a time when both the spirit world and physical world will be able to communicate. I have to imagine that "recordless people" will simply tell us their names, and their work will be done.
Thank You. This
Temple work is a mockery to God. Read Moroni 8
@Sallygirl111 yes for children who die under 8. Not everyone else.
@@Sallygirl111 The Holy Temple is True. Ether 3 and everywhere else.
6:27 This relies on the assumption that revelation won’t play a part in finding these people
This is so good Kwaku. So many good questions to ask oneself. True Enlightenment comes when we stop making excuses for a belief system we have been brought up in and allow it to run our lives in programs and patterns like robots. All belief systems should be scrutinized. We are here to awaken to our true selves our true nature. 💚
I like your thought process of what shapes ones world view, which is ones world circumstance. The concept of a loving, peaceful, selfless individual, that gives 100% to the Great Bamboo God, never knowing the teachings of the Savior, is simply preposterous.
What about dealings? That’s my biggest issue with reincarnation. Do you live with your spouse and your families over and over?
Being born again in a literal sense in the flesh wasnt just a commandment, but a promise of a covenant. The belief isn't that those whose names were forgotten won't be saved. The teaching has always been during the millenial reign of Jesus, all those who couldnt be baptized will be able to. Its not just a ritual action. Its a literal change of the self.
The Greeks believed that u had to be righteous or whatever for three lives before you could be in their highest heaven. I really liked the Nemenhah take of reincarnation. I believe that through Christ that we will not have to “go out again.”
Yeah, it makes sense to me, too. But I often wonder, what good is a prior life if you can't remember it...
So how would this sort of system work? Would you just keep coming and living new lives until you “figured it out?” And how could you progress if you have no memory whatsoever of your past lives? And what if you accept Christ in one life, then reject him under different circumstances? Which counts? How would you know you’re saved? Why would God need to send you down multiple times just to figure out how things would play out for you under different circumstances? Wouldn’t an all-knowing God already know the results?
Reincarnation is only true in the sense that We live multiple lives. We lived a life before this mortal one. We live a mortal life. When we are "born again" in Jesus, we start a new life. In the spirit world we live again. And then we continue on afterward as well.
1. My experiences do not form even a part of my identity since I could have had different experiences.
2. If my experiences do not form even a part of my identity, why would they tell me anything about who I am?
1. I am something that is identified by its tendency to act in different ways in different situations.
2. I'm not formed by my experiences.
3. I'm therefore determined to act in different ways in different situations since I could not have chosen otherwise.
1. I do not have knowledge of my experiences in my past lives.
2. So I cant learn from my experiences in my past lives.
1. God knows everything.
2. Therefore there is no need for God play these games.
1. My goal in life is to know myself.
2. I'm not determined by my experiences.
3. Therefore it seems like there is part of me that is determined to act in certain ways and a part of me that seeks to know "the algorithm of me".
Reincarnation is incoherent and certainly not a Christian idea. But this idea that we are passive watchers of the movie of ourselves does kind of separate us from this realm which is the gnostic and eastern way. We come to realize that we are essentially not part of this world and therefore we are emancipated.
Kwaku accidentally became a manichaean
Kwaku, great video as usual. I would love to see a video with you and Lance Weaver together expanding on this topic. I assume you’re aware of some of his writings on reincarnation . I also love the reference you made to the phrase found in the Book of Mormon “to go no more out”. I had read those verses so many times growing up, but when I read them through the lens of reincarnation it was like a huge leap forward in my understanding and acceptance of the possible reality of reincarnation.
I remember when this first took hold for me, I was reading a conference talk (don’t remember which one) that stated we would receive all necessary preparations in mortality in order to follow Christ’s path. I wondered then “Well, how can mortality prepaid us for everything Christ did if we only go through once?”
However, even with that, this discussion including mention of “day” and “sun” in a reincarnation context brings new light to this from the Sermon at Bountiful, 3 Nephi 13: 34:
“Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient is the day unto the evil thereof.”
If seen in light of reincarnation, it seems to suggest that focusing too much on the “morrow” (or even worrying about previous “days”) may distract from the tasks at hand. This “day” has enough trials to focus on as it is.
I’ve mentioned this on Twitter, but you might’ve missed it so I’ll ask it here too:
When the Apostles saw all things and asked to “come speedily into [his] kingdom” (D&C 7: 4-5, 45: 2-3; mirrored by the 12 disciples in 3 Nephi), the scriptures say they “looked upon the long absence of your spirits from your bodies to be a bondage.” If they would have been reincarnated after death without specifically requesting this of Christ, where would the long absence fit? And if they had already lived so as to “go no more out,” why would they need to request this?
Having said this, these are good points, verses I haven’t considered before. I’ll definitely review them in their original Hebrew to see if these interpretations still fit. This is a topic I’ve considered and researched a lot, and I appreciate the renewed discussion!
(Though, to touch on a new point, didn’t Elijah directly ascend in a chariot? Or was that symbolic where most of your points are to be taken literally? For what it’s worth though, I don’t think him ascending would prevent reincarnation, it was just an odd argument.)
Reincarnation has been talked about in some Mormon Fundamentalist spaces. Ogden Kraut and Ross LeBaron
This is a great video! I enjoy your insight.
Being raised in the church, I naively held to a literal interpretation of the scriptures. This lead to a faith crisis that led me away from the church (and main line Christianity in general). I began studying Esoteric Christianity and eventually I stumbled on two articles that changed my mind about Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith and Kabbalah The Occult Connection and Joseph Smith America's Hermetic Prophet. Both by Lance S. Owens.
These articles opened my eyes to a new way of looking at Mormonism and the possibility of reincarnation. Especially since reincarnation is found Jewish Mysticism.
Also, here are a few things that have been rattling around my head for awhile. Not saying they are true. Just food for thought.
The Adam-God theory has a lot of similarity to the Kabbalistic teaching of Adam Kadmon.
And Kolob also has a lot of similarity to Keter. First of the ten sefirot in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life.
Lehi's vision of the Tree of life in the 1st Book of Nephi has a lot of esoteric symbolism contained in it as well. :)
Kwaku, I would love to hear your review of the book Second Class Saints
Many people criticize Joseph Smith for stating that Elias and Elijah appeared in the Kirtland temple. If this is the same person/messenger in 2 consecutive visions, how do you make sense of “for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us?”
Can you be translated and still be transmigrated?
Brigham young, Eliza R Snow, Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt (to name a few) and Joseph Smith all taught this to varying degrees in early days. Sadly the doctrine has been all but lost to modern LDS understanding.
It’s also in a handful of resurrection texts in D&C and in other special places when it uses the term “eternal lives” (plural)
Once studied in detail … it makes an incredible amount of sense with Adam, Christ and other glorified beings intervening for the salvation of men on earth because how did they gain their glorification in the first place?
Reincarnation makes more sense to me than many other propositions on what happens to a soul at death. One life is clearly not enough for a person to get things right, before having their true character judged. That being said, the New Testament can be, and has been used to promote many and sundry ideas, some of which cut against the case you made from the verses you shared to support reincarnation. Maybe that is what Jesus meant. Many things are possible. Yet if it was, how did Christianity lose the plot so badly?
Interesting topic, Kwaku. Keep it up.
Reincarnation is distinct from transmigration. Reincarnation is not a truth taught by the Church of the Firstborn, nor is it part of the teachings about the Kingdom within us or the Kingdom from which we came.
Any argument or just a denial?
@@withkwakuAre you trying to convey that we are born into a completely new body that didn’t exist before? Are you suggesting that the body we had before coming to Earth is different from the one we inhabit now, and that our body after death will also be different?
@withkwaku Belief in a reincarnation to another human in another life does have impacts on the nature of our covenants and the nature of key doctrines like the atonement, final judgement, and exaltation. The true doctrine is we will be continuing to improve forever in Gods kingdom. The question then is why do people get insight into past lives. My answer is we spiritually ministered to previous generations in the spirit world under Gods hand and our souls carry that memory of us ministering to past humans. Just my thoughts
I'm more concerned with the weird shirtless picture bro, who are you? Fabio?? Why aren't you riding a horse bro?? Lol
How does reincarnation fit in with the temple?
If correct, this proposal seems to suggest that final judgement will be based on our cumulative set of experiences. ie: its OK, that someone in South America didn't get to know Jesus 2000 years ago because at least one of their reincarnations will have the opportunity to become Christian. Do you think the reverse is also true? As long as someone was a Christian in one of their past lives, is it non-critical that they become Christian in their current life? ie: If Thomas Aquinas's soul is currently living as a Buddhist Mongolian shepherd, has he already locked in salvation from his past life experiences?
This is great to see you coming to this realization about reincarnation, Kwaku. These teachings have been around for many years though. How is that you are just discovering this now?
Kwaku, I see what you're saying, but it does seem like a lot of cherry-picking cost out in left field, to mix metaphors. But I have some follow-up questions, to entertain your discovery:
1. Are you saying it is not important (or not necessary) for a person to learn of Christ and be converted to His gospel, but only to progressively learn the attributes thereof even without His name?
2. If a person does have to be converted to Christ, is there a successive life where God just says, "meh, you're close enough, you can learn the rest from the afterlife missionaries"?
3. How many lives does it take, and where is the evidence of people reaching their full reincarnated potential? I can think of only a few handfuls of people who seem Christlike enough in the last few generations, namely, for example, LDS leaders, mother Teresa and Fred Rogers. How many lifetimes do you think it took them, and are the other billions of us just too beginnery? (I'm not trying to be facetious, I really am curious how you approach this).
As satirical as it is, the TV show *The Good Place* ends its series with an afterlife model of people in the Bad Place correcting their mistakes in mind of a reincarnated way (though they're just repeating their own lives with glimmers of how to get it right) until they earn the Good Place. Your video somewhat reminded me of this. But how far along the path does a person have to be in order to be worthy enough, and does your model conflict with the model of three kingdoms of glory?
Kwaku, I am a traditional Christian and believe this. My close friend who is LDS is writing a book on this topic.
I would like to discuss this with you.
Top shelf material i really enjoy your content cant wait for more
Thanks Kwaku. I completely agree with you. It's amazing that when you realize that reincarnation is true, you begin to see it EVERYWHERE in the scriptures. There is strong evidence that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others knew of this doctrine (read "Teachings of the Doctrine of Eternal Lives" by an anonymous LDS member of faith). The gospel makes more sense with reincarnation considered, and also gives us a sense of urgency to follow Jesus Christ. Hundreds of NDEs affirm reincarnation, even the countless stories coming from a Christ-centered perspective. We can't simply write-off these experiences, but should at least consider this as a possibility. With this new information, we should have nothing to fear.
If John and Elijah are the same reincarnated spirit, when Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery saw John the Baptist and then later Elijah, did they see the same physical body? As far as I know neither of them said they looked the same. I think that would have been astounding and something they would have remarked on if John and Elijah appeared to be the same person.
I think this is where Elias as a calling comes in to play. Jehovah had a pre-mortal body, name and calling before he came as Jesus. If a Prophet wanted to speak with Jehovah and Jesus at different times, he could. One would have holes in his hands, the other wouldn’t. They would look similar but could also be one spirit sharing two bodies.
Same with Elijah.
Perhaps there are "recombinant spirits". Perhaps you are the only you that will ever exist, but "you" is actually a unique recipe of pre-existing spirits sent to this world to be perfected. Maybe "you" are not reincarnated but a slightly different recipe is sent down to Earth for the next go round? Eventually the recipe is correct, and the life lived is sufficient, and that version of you gets to move forward to the next level, as Enoch did?
I don't necessarily believe this, but it is one of the more creative ideas I've had that seems to still conform to scripture. I would like your feedback now that you appear to be exploring all possibilities.
Ive often times entertained the thought that since our spirits have existed from the very beginning, maybe we've inhabited multiple bodies before this life, not like oh i was alexander the great, but perhaps in the universe before this one. Perhaps I born a member because in the last universe, my spirit had accepted the gospel in its existence. Idk man my brain no does good think.
Bedroom Talks, episode one. More to come. Oooh yeah.
Can the pre earth life help us understand a little of why we have been born into different situations?
In the pre earth life everyone that would come to earth put there faith in Jesus. This mortal life is the test of seeing if we seek out the good without knowing it’s good for us. Everyone has a different level of accountability based off there knowledge, but none can gain exhalation without covenant bond with Jesus Christ. Jesus will make sure everyone has the opportunity to get in the millennium? Why do we need multiple lifetimes if we lived in God’s presence before and followed him, and built our character as best we can in this life and then after are given the knowledge of Jesus we where not given opportunity to receive.
Mommy!!!!.... Kwaku is scaring me again! ... He's going culty again! 😬
I've always thought this way about reincarnation. But according to our beliefs, as I was always told by members, is that we don't believe in reincarnation.... So I just left that idea alone and took it as not doctrine. But now!!!????...😬😳 ....I got a lot to think about!!!
Now it makes me think more outside our doctrine.... Could it be that maybe Jesus has lived many lives in another world, to gain His experience, obedience, patience, worthiness, perfection to take on the role as Our savior and put into motion Our Heavenly Father plan of salvation etc.???? Where would Jesus attain such sacrifice and dedication to a life of serving others without sin? From what I understand is that we were sent here on earth to attain physical bodies, to experience physical life and everything that pertains to living in the physical.... Something that the spirit form could not provide. So Jesus must have been given an opportunity (or opportunities) to experience physical life to prepare for the role of our Savior for this earth
I mean, after listening to this video, one could only assume that this could actually be possible.... right????
That’s an interesting way of thinking about things
Interesting concept, have you taken these questions to the Temple?
I love this topic and I believe in some form of reincarnation myself. Although I really struggle with the sin and forgiveness aspects due to my own religious trauma in the church, but have you wondered if the Church would censure you or threaten discipline for departing from the church's mainstream theology here?
An interesting spin on the New Testament and what happens to our spirits. Still, all religious ideas are speculation.
Very interesting. I definitely don't think 85 years on earth can dictate our eternity. To me, even a full life isn't enough time to grow, change. That puts limits on Christ's Atonement and upon our divine potential as children of God.
You should try to reach out a fellow TH-camr called Decode Your Reality. He is a really interesting person to collab with.
In your example, the "privileges" of this world are actually obstacles to the Spiritual journey. Christians are called to die to the world. The comforts and possessions in the girl's case arouse the passions and make it harder for her to live by the Spirit. The poor and forgotten don't have this problems. Of course that doesn't mean they don't have other problems/passions of their own to overcome. The point is that the things of the world are never advantages in the Spiritual life.
John the Baptist says he is not Elijah John 1:21 which is interesting. Elias was the Greek name for Elijah the forerunner of the lord, so he simply was that, the greatest high priest ever according to Christ! Forget this Aaronic priesthood stuff, he was a high priest the greatest one. All high priest WHERE a type and shadow of Christ, no more need for the type and shadow after Christ tore the veil, the real deal came and changed everything . Alma 34:32-36 paints a very different picture of multiple mortal probationary states, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed, it is interesting that it says the righteous shall go no more out, was Elijah to go out again? No he was righteous I presume. Does that mean the unrighteousness will have to go out again? Same scripture says if we procrastinate repentance until death the same spirit is on us at death and Christ spirit withdraws the final state of the wicked you are the devils. We are either free or captive in outer darkness or with God no 3 kingdoms . I do sympathize with how unfair life circumstances for many seem to be! It does seem unjust! But I think of the parable of the laborer in the field everyone got the same reward no matter how long they labored and it was just, there is no deserving from anybody in any circumstances yet Gods grace surpasses all understanding! We must grab hold of every thought, for not all thoughts belong to us, some of God, some of men, some of the devil, we must discern between the spirits and thoughts that come to our subconscious mind. The message of those scriptures is to repent, this is his doctrine to be born again of fire and Holy Ghost is a new life, while in this life, a new creature in Christ, not being born of physical nature again and again and again. Christ warns us of adding to his doctrine in 3 nephi11 being born again becoming like a child, Repenting . I don’t think I have met that requirement or the signs would fallow. What does it gain us to believe in reincarnation? To think we can deny the spirit within and get another shot. The same scripture in alma it talks about God not dwelling in unholy temples (not the lds kind of temple) the real temple, his creation not ours! The hearts of the righteous, he wants our hearts our will this is to be born again. Coming from a guy who is not! Lol
On the idea of God testing people by placing them in other places, what need have He of this? He has perfect infallible foresight of all things. He knows all things from the beginning to the end of the world.
Proverbs 15:11 KJV, “Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?”
Psalm 139:2 KJV "Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off."
Isa 64:10 KJV "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
For some sects of Christianity, Heaven is the temporary waiting area until the Earth is renewed and we all live again. If we're in a cycle of reincarnation until the end times, then what purpose does Heaven serve? Purely for pre-existence and divine beings?
Your completely forgetting we have chose christ before already in the pre mortal life so we have done it in multiple lives
you should explore Adam God some more while you're on the topic
This is Awesome! Thank You! I have always secretly thought of this. But the LDS church was against this. Being "BORN AGAIN" or changing for the better is more important than the physical ceremony of Baptism. CHristian Religions put too much emphasise on the physical action vs the spiritual. Also I found out that Jospeh Smith taught when we die and get sent to the momron degrees of heaven Stars, moon, and the sun celestial kindoms.(why do we walk in each room/kingdom in the temple?) We are not damned to those kingdoms meaning we can always progress! Someon told me that Gods love is so unconditional he will not stop until everyone he can gets exalted. Thats the God I want to follow not a condemning daming ignorant and obedient Mormon God.
Despite thinking Kwaku is ridiculous and d-baggy a lot of the time, I like the general notions behind this video . I'm disgusted by people like Mark E. Peterson who use privilege to claim superiority--the notion of getting a different turn in different environments really does make a lot of sense. Let's all take a second to remember that Adam didn't inherently have his own form, and God had to choose a form for man in the Bible, so who is to say our physical human form is extremely inherent to us? When Rusty Nailhead goes to third world countries and says ignorant things like 'oh if you paid your tithing your country would be richer, God loves some more than others," it makes me want Rusty to be born into extreme poverty in his next life. Great stuff Kwaku! Mike Winger did a tiktok/TH-cam short that said people who believe in Reincarnation have a darkness enter their eyes them. And my only thought was: there's a lot of fairness inherent in Reincarnation that doesn't seem to be there in traditional Christianity, and the notions behind reincarnation can humble you in a way, so if anything it should bring more light into your eyes...
Very thought provoking take on some scriptures, and it reminds me a lot of that Andy Weir short story "The Egg". However, I don't think the evidence you've provided is compelling enough to convince me yet, especially considering the fact that this concept of transmigration of souls raises far more questions than it answers, at least to me.
based and glorious, anyone who doesnt know that the ancient jewish people practiced and believed in reincarnation...
Gilgul (also Gilgul neshamot or Gilgulei HaNeshamot; Heb. גלגול הנשמות, Plural: גלגולים Gilgulim) is a concept of reincarnation or "transmigration of souls"[1] in Kabbalistic esoteric mysticism. In Hebrew, the word gilgul means "cycle" or "wheel" and neshamot is the plural for "souls." Souls are seen to cycle through lives or incarnations, being attached to different human bodies over time. Which body they associate with depends on their particular task in the physical world, spiritual levels of the bodies of predecessors and so on. The concept relates to the wider processes of history in Kabbalah, involving cosmic Tikkun (Messianic rectification), and the historical dynamic of ascending Lights and descending Vessels from generation to generation.
I dig the stache
Reincarnation is no crazier than any other possibility really. All believe all will be saved or find God in the end, maybe reincarnation has something to do with this.
11:45 - It’s less complicated than this actually. Though explaining it would likely sound complex 😂
interesting.
Would the term 'Multiple Mortal Probations' be a better way of explaining it, similar to early church doctrine?
keep trying...you are almost there...welcome to the high level physics of the gospel
And so it is…!!!
🙋♂️🙌🙏
I like the stories of Reincarnation it’s interesting
I've been waiting for the apostles to talk about reincarnation in general conference. Maybe if they see this video they might mention it.
how do i go to your discord?