Ok, those digitized samples made my jaw drop... Amazing what the SID could be made to do. Even as a synth it still sounds fantastic even today, so much character to it.
The Digi-Capabilities of the SID weren't actualy all that outstanding. Even back then, Audio-DACs weren't all that expensive. What makes this demo so great is the fact that they managed to get real crystal clear audio eventhough the VIC2-Chip stops and blocks the CPU and databus many times a second to render the bitmap/characters on the screen - which negativly effects the playback quality of the digi-sounds. Thats why many digi-players usualy turn off screen rendering during playback.....
@@monarch73 Availability ... Compare how much people for example had a Philips TDA1540 or an E-mu Emulator II or access to technology/instruments suitable for the stage (me:P) in 1984-1988 [1], versus millions of kids who got in contact with the concept of audio synthesis BECAUSE of the home-computer revolution of that time. You are joking, aren't you?! Because otherwise you're sitting on a pretty high horse. Your view is in no way consistent with historical reality. It seems to me rather glorified and defiant, maybe even boastful? Anyway, I think the same with the rest of your comment, great handiwork on display here. But your first two sentences are untenable and demonstrably stupid! Sorry, but they are:) [1] Hey, and who would've guessed it, those people ACTIVELY bought it or had a reason to do so and KNEW about such devices.
@@dieSpinnt Ich überlege jetzt schon seit Tagen, an welcher Stelle ich in den zwei Sätzen "boastful" gewesen sein soll. Ein DAC besteht in der Regel aus einem Bündel Spannungsteiler (eine Hand voll Widerstände) und einem Impedanzwandler (simpler Op-Amp). Webseiten, die sich mit dem Aufbau eines DACs beschäftigen, gibt es zu genüge! Das ist keine teure Hardware. Auch damals nicht! Was wirklich teuer war, war die Peripherie, die nötig war, um eine saubere Widergabe zu gewährleisten. Das Problem aus jener Zeit saubere, klare Samples widerzugeben besteht einzig und allein aus der begrenzen Speicherkapazität der Systeme und dem Timing. Sampledaten müssen gleichmässig zum DAC übermittelt werden, um sauber zu klingen. RAM war teuer und CPUs mussten ein sehr genaues Timing einhalten, konnten also sonst nichts anderes machen.
Mal im ernst ? Was gibt es besseres als diese Demo? Einfach nur geil oder ? Ich bin hin und weg ! "Censor Design" ihr habt meinen vollen Respekt und ich werde alle Demos auf auf meinen Kanal zeigen. An alle C64-Freunde einen lieben Gruss an Euch. Euer Retrobulle.
I think this just easily surpasses everything we've seen before. It's just unbelievable. Beyond all comprehension of perfect coding. I am in total awe.
That is just sick! I was amazed when I bought my C64 (pretty late... in 85-86) of the demos then... but this blows your mind! just awesome stuff! and done 2013! that is amazing. I wonder what would happened if a demo of this kind was released 1982... Commodore would have ruled the world as we know it...
@@CardiacCat The open standard won. IBM accidentally created a monster they could not control. Their boring business machines with PC-speakers and awful monochrome and CGA colors slowly morphed into gaming machines from the sheer pressure of third party hardware developers adding VGA, sound cards, better CPUs, CDROMs, flight sticks, joysticks and all manner of widgets, most of which were kind of trash. When they released the PS/2 to try and lock things down again into a proprietary standard they could control it was already too late. IBM PCs was a joke until about 1990; by 1992 they had caught up and surpassed Amiga in *software* without hardware acceleration or a BLIT and 3D games really didn't benefit much from a BLIT anyway. 1992 had Ultima underworld; a game so bizarrely ahead of its time that it was like time traveling aliens made a game for the 386DX. And Wolfenstein 3D of course. Next year came Doom. Commodore had two major problems. They iterated so slowly and stayed on the same basic hardware so long that when they finally released anything substantively better most people just went "meh" and kept buying games for, developing games for and using the Amiga 500. They could not benefit from the "throw shit at a wall and see what sticks" approach of having thousands of hardware companies making all manner of weird hardware to chart the way; just seeing what works and gets adopted.
There are two things here that completely blew my mind as an old Demoscene coder on the 64. 1) The scrolling with 5 shades of grey without any flickering. 2) The sampling quality. I got a headache just from my mind trying to come up with theories on how they did this.
If this runs on original c64 hardware then it is Pure genius work. The graphics, music, composition of ideas to maximise the wow factor, and above all the coding is mind blowing. when I was 14-15 years old i coded a few demos in the late 80s (I’m early 50s now!) for the c64 using the monitor app on my expert cartridge (didn’t have a true assembler app and was self taught by dissembling other demos to learn techniques) bouncing raster bars running from pre called sin data, deleted borders, text scrollers and sprite multiplexing was best I ever achieved. But I felt I had a good grasp of the hardware, limits and areas you could exploit the cpu and vic. I guess that gives me an understanding of impressive this demo is. Granted they had modern tools for dev, graphics and audio to help, but make no mistake this is insanely brilliant, there is stuff here I truly can’t figure out how they did it, I’d love for the team that produced this to do a masterclass and break it down. I salute you all!❤
I am so blown away by the excellent quality and speed of these demos. The software pushes the VIC and SID chips way past what the designers ever imagined. I'm left wondering if these demos would run as well on my 40 year old humble original C64.
Imagine if these demo's happened in 1983 or 1984. Just the FLI images alone would have shocked us back then, making it superior to CGA & also just before the days of Amiga. And then you put the quality music on top of that.
When converting C64 output to modern 16:9 video formats, try making the VIC chip pixels fill more of the screen, then use the border color value for to pad it to a full modern size, as if added to a new version of the chip. In this video you included the original padding to fill 12:9 TVs, then you added that texture on both sides.
Excellent demo. Most C64 demos are boring with a lot of text to read, but this is one is cool!👍 How much RAM does it require for this Kraftwerk Boing Music Non Stop sample?
Yes I heard about. But back then we had long loading times. That's exactly the feeling I want to convey. Feel free to skip the videos if it bothers you :)
Ok, those digitized samples made my jaw drop... Amazing what the SID could be made to do. Even as a synth it still sounds fantastic even today, so much character to it.
Then you need to check out Wonderland 13. Good luck picking your jaw off the floor. You were warned. ;)
This is modern thing 2013
The Digi-Capabilities of the SID weren't actualy all that outstanding. Even back then, Audio-DACs weren't all that expensive. What makes this demo so great is the fact that they managed to get real crystal clear audio eventhough the VIC2-Chip stops and blocks the CPU and databus many times a second to render the bitmap/characters on the screen - which negativly effects the playback quality of the digi-sounds.
Thats why many digi-players usualy turn off screen rendering during playback.....
@@monarch73 Availability ... Compare how much people for example had a Philips TDA1540 or an E-mu Emulator II or access to technology/instruments suitable for the stage (me:P) in 1984-1988 [1], versus millions of kids who got in contact with the concept of audio synthesis BECAUSE of the home-computer revolution of that time.
You are joking, aren't you?! Because otherwise you're sitting on a pretty high horse. Your view is in no way consistent with historical reality. It seems to me rather glorified and defiant, maybe even boastful? Anyway, I think the same with the rest of your comment, great handiwork on display here. But your first two sentences are untenable and demonstrably stupid! Sorry, but they are:)
[1] Hey, and who would've guessed it, those people ACTIVELY bought it or had a reason to do so and KNEW about such devices.
@@dieSpinnt Ich überlege jetzt schon seit Tagen, an welcher Stelle ich in den zwei Sätzen "boastful" gewesen sein soll.
Ein DAC besteht in der Regel aus einem Bündel Spannungsteiler (eine Hand voll Widerstände) und einem Impedanzwandler (simpler Op-Amp). Webseiten, die sich mit dem Aufbau eines DACs beschäftigen, gibt es zu genüge! Das ist keine teure Hardware. Auch damals nicht! Was wirklich teuer war, war die Peripherie, die nötig war, um eine saubere Widergabe zu gewährleisten.
Das Problem aus jener Zeit saubere, klare Samples widerzugeben besteht einzig und allein aus der begrenzen Speicherkapazität der Systeme und dem Timing. Sampledaten müssen gleichmässig zum DAC übermittelt werden, um sauber zu klingen. RAM war teuer und CPUs mussten ein sehr genaues Timing einhalten, konnten also sonst nichts anderes machen.
Mal im ernst ? Was gibt es besseres als diese Demo? Einfach nur geil oder ?
Ich bin hin und weg ! "Censor Design" ihr habt meinen vollen Respekt und ich werde alle Demos auf auf meinen Kanal zeigen.
An alle C64-Freunde einen lieben Gruss an Euch. Euer Retrobulle.
I think this just easily surpasses everything we've seen before.
It's just unbelievable. Beyond all comprehension of perfect coding.
I am in total awe.
That is just sick! I was amazed when I bought my C64 (pretty late... in 85-86) of the demos then... but this blows your mind! just awesome stuff! and done 2013! that is amazing.
I wonder what would happened if a demo of this kind was released 1982... Commodore would have ruled the world as we know it...
Yeah - its more than amazing :) thx for your command.
They did rule the world for a minute.
Had mine around 1991 ......
They had something even better than this, the Amiga. Unfortunately they just didn't know how to rule the world even with the keys in their hands.
@@CardiacCat The open standard won. IBM accidentally created a monster they could not control. Their boring business machines with PC-speakers and awful monochrome and CGA colors slowly morphed into gaming machines from the sheer pressure of third party hardware developers adding VGA, sound cards, better CPUs, CDROMs, flight sticks, joysticks and all manner of widgets, most of which were kind of trash. When they released the PS/2 to try and lock things down again into a proprietary standard they could control it was already too late. IBM PCs was a joke until about 1990; by 1992 they had caught up and surpassed Amiga in *software* without hardware acceleration or a BLIT and 3D games really didn't benefit much from a BLIT anyway. 1992 had Ultima underworld; a game so bizarrely ahead of its time that it was like time traveling aliens made a game for the 386DX. And Wolfenstein 3D of course. Next year came Doom.
Commodore had two major problems. They iterated so slowly and stayed on the same basic hardware so long that when they finally released anything substantively better most people just went "meh" and kept buying games for, developing games for and using the Amiga 500. They could not benefit from the "throw shit at a wall and see what sticks" approach of having thousands of hardware companies making all manner of weird hardware to chart the way; just seeing what works and gets adopted.
There are two things here that completely blew my mind as an old Demoscene coder on the 64. 1) The scrolling with 5 shades of grey without any flickering. 2) The sampling quality. I got a headache just from my mind trying to come up with theories on how they did this.
It is called assembly programming - just google it!
If this runs on original c64 hardware then it is Pure genius work. The graphics, music, composition of ideas to maximise the wow factor, and above all the coding is mind blowing. when I was 14-15 years old i coded a few demos in the late 80s (I’m early 50s now!) for the c64 using the monitor app on my expert cartridge (didn’t have a true assembler app and was self taught by dissembling other demos to learn techniques) bouncing raster bars running from pre called sin data, deleted borders, text scrollers and sprite multiplexing was best I ever achieved. But I felt I had a good grasp of the hardware, limits and areas you could exploit the cpu and vic. I guess that gives me an understanding of impressive this demo is. Granted they had modern tools for dev, graphics and audio to help, but make no mistake this is insanely brilliant, there is stuff here I truly can’t figure out how they did it, I’d love for the team that produced this to do a masterclass and break it down. I salute you all!❤
Imagine showing something like this in the window of a shop where the Commodore 64 was sold in 1984 - it would sell five times better!
This is some kind of black magic sorcery. lol
Yes - but it would be a lie. Just as when you go home with a chinese woman from a bar and discovers it was all make-up. I.e. fakery all the way.
The most insane demo I've ever seen! Wow
Yes its INSANE !
Absolute incredible amazing. I never thought that this is possible. Just great!
Absolutely brilliant!!! I just drift away in an 8 bit wonderland..
One of the BEST Demos EVER... JMHO
Epic Masterclass !
YES !!!
Schön zu sehen, was die Freaks aus dem guten alten Brotkasten noch so rauskitzeln konnten.
8:06 the following sounds made me think of “Paradroid”: I loved that game.
Makes the C64 sing!
This tune never gets old.
Thats true :)
Majority of the demos on the C64 are just insane for a 8 bit computer
Unfassbar. Splendid.
Genau. Unfassbar gut :)
Wow this is incredible! It looks like an Amiga demo.
I''ve heard rumors they took the inside of an amiga and glued it into a C64 to make you believe it was a C64?
I am so blown away by the excellent quality and speed of these demos. The software pushes the VIC and SID chips way past what the designers ever imagined.
I'm left wondering if these demos would run as well on my 40 year old humble original C64.
Thank you Norway!
Smells like genius spirit...
Fantasticus. And wen the source code will be available ? (given its now 10 years old)
Never ever :)
@@retrobulle718 lolz
The SID-track rocks. Espescially 9:24 to 9:50. Is this part based on anything? Does anybody know?
kraftwerk?
Yes. Kraftwerk - boing boom tschaak / musique non stop
Fantastic so cool
Thx :)
fantastic
Wonderland XIII ist ebenso geil 🤩
Au ja, die Demo habe ich auf meinem Kanal :) Die ist mal Hammer gut!
I REALY LOVE MY C64 ❤❤❤ FOREVER ❤❤❤
Those digis have a super sharp high frequency buzz with them, around 16 kHz
SID Sound❤
Imagine if these demo's happened in 1983 or 1984. Just the FLI images alone would have shocked us back then, making it superior to CGA & also just before the days of Amiga. And then you put the quality music on top of that.
Amazing. Is this running on pure C-64 with a disk drive or is there some kind of expansion?
it runs from a datasette, and just plays the tune from tape
Very nice! 👍
fantastic!
What else :) C64 rules
When converting C64 output to modern 16:9 video formats, try making the VIC chip pixels fill more of the screen, then use the border color value for to pad it to a full modern size, as if added to a new version of the chip.
In this video you included the original padding to fill 12:9 TVs, then you added that texture on both sides.
Terrible idea 😮
Excellent demo. Most C64 demos are boring with a lot of text to read, but this is one is cool!👍
How much RAM does it require for this Kraftwerk Boing Music Non Stop sample?
People these days don't realise how unbelievably good these are.
64k of bloody ram 🤣
aber das soll auf originaler C64er Hardware laufen, oder?
Mit Vice lief das einwandfrei. Auf orig. C64 Hardware mit Standart-SID wohl eher nicht.
JA LÄUFT AUF ORGINAL
git source?
cartridge memory could do full video output on c64
I have no memary card, sorry :)
new subscribe! I also talk about these magnificent Commodore computers!
Meine Jugend, da werden Erinnerungen wach
Au ja, wem sagst du das. Immer wenn ich am C64 sitze kommen Erinnerungen hoch. Und die geniesse ich einfach ausgiebig :)
@@retrobulle718 Damals gab es noch Trinity of Agile, die haben auch coole Demos gemacht.
Danke für den Hinweis. die schaue ich mir doch glatt mal an :)
Unglaublich, das daß auf einem C64 läuft !
Still Jealous of anyone who had a 64.. I had a Vic 20, took a week to program and record 'Blitz' to cassette. Happy Days! 🖖😎👍
I first had a VIC 20, then after three months I bought the C64 :)
Is it real?
It is :)
VIC-2 poradzi sobie z taką grafiką, ale do tego trzeba coś lepszego niż MOS-6510 1MHz. Np. MOS-65816.
Please write yote Commabnd in German or English.
I don't understand your language !
sieht für mich eher aus, als ob das für die S-CPU gedacht war. Aber trotzdem goil!
Läuft auf original hardware
@@thomassauer27.75 jepp :)
Wait, this is unreal.... What the....0o upd: wtf???? This is demo from 2013??? upd no2: WTF???
Ever heard about „Fast Load“? 😢
Yes I heard about. But back then we had long loading times. That's exactly the feeling I want to convey. Feel free to skip the videos if it bothers you :)
Still one of the very best c64 demos. Even today. 🫡