Whenever I think about these things, I remember my best friend telling me he was gay and being so afraid to lose me as a friend. I don't want anyone to go through that kind of rejection, not from people and not from any church.
I defected from the Church to join Buddhism. Humans are religious and I am so happy to be a gay man in a religion that accepts reality. Leaving Christianity was the best decision I ever made.
especially when these priests and popes tell YOU being gay is a sin all while they are sexually abusing under aged boys themselves. These people have turned religion into a scam and a cash grab more than anything else and hide behind it
But God can, and that is what maters. When you realise that your opinion and goals have no importance when it’s not according to God’s plan, you become really humble, take your cross and follow Jesus. Otherwise you are not worthy of Him.
I am now an old man, born 1936. In my hometown I guessed to be the only gay person. I had the chance of meeting a wonderful girl, very attractive, intelligent, good character and prepared to try together the most extravagant things, as emigrating to the Amazonian forests . She was a perfect match. Then there was thiat same sex attraction and I dropped the relation without coming out. I made quite an impressive business career but fell in the trap of wild gay life in Paris and later San Francisco, with sex parties and drugs. I went through hell! It was very difficult to get out of this scene ! In California I met a highly cultivated man, son of a well to do upper class family and very catholic. Without any egoistic intentions he helped me to get free and convinced me to attend mass. He was one of the best persons I have ever met in my life. Now I am living since nearly 40 years with the same partner. We go to mass every Sunday and thank God for a fulfilled life and that we have one another..
Love Justin! I honestly don’t know how he does it, the level of vitriol and hatred directed to him by so called loving Catholics in his IG comment sections is off the charts. I honestly believe that for many of them being a gay affirming Catholic is seen as much worse than being a gay atheist. Kind of interesting to witness.
The one on the right has his head screwed on, although I fear the one on the left has a long way to go (although can’t judge not least because of how at 22 years old he is still young).
I am a Catholic and I decide to have a celibate life. I respect what you do to find your path and discuss it openly. Sometimes when I feel lonely and will rewatch this video again. Thank you
@GayExTrad Though the interpretation of Catholic church is not always correct (eg for sure there is no ground to claim that priests should be single), God exists, only the church (especially religious Order) not follows God's will.
Some good one-liners. I will go back and listen again and jot a few of them down. As a 60-ish year old, single, never partnered, and (not fully) fallen away catholic (I still hold on to the 'real presence' doctrin somehow while even thinking if J. was even real). Anyhow, all I can say it is tougher to 'date' as you grow older - young love is good love, less baggage, less finances, more time ahead of you. That being said, Justin said (paraphrasing) "it is tough navigating/finding love', it is actually 'mathematically' more challenging less of a population to choose from if 10% of the population are gay, and half of that population is cis-the-other-gender the math is working against you - so you have to bring a lot to the table and be bold earlier on. Say, YES more often. Define what you need and want, and what is acceptable at a minimum (non-smoker, not a drug addict, stable, etc.) Don't exactly look for the 10 (if it even exists), look for the 5+, and work on getting each other up to a 10, and heaven - and the people you meet on the way. It will become your journey together. Stay safe, be happy, take chances, be true to yourself and others. Note: I like how Justin said something like: When I tell God what I did with my life.
I'm glad you are expanding your podcasts. Was this done at your new studio you were talking about. You are a very good interviewer. I just saw your second interview on the Dragons of victory. Have you considered sort of turning the tables and interviewing Anthony from the dragons of victory on one of your shows ? Both times I had to go back and watch your interviews with him twice because there was so much interesting substance in what the two of you were talking about. Thank you for doing what you are doing. These are conversations that I have been hoping to find but have not until I discovered you and your podcasts. I can't wait to see what you have coming up next. Keep up the great work you are doing !
Love seeing video of you speaking with other on thier experience and spiritual journey. I hope you can get more people to interview with. Lot's of love from the Philippines 😊
I like your conversation and as Catholic Latino therapist I’m always open to learn from everyone talking about this important topic of faith and sexuality which I had treated and I’m not referring to any conversion therapy. Those who had come to therapy were happy to understand that they can be sexually beings and have faith.
„He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.“ (Matthew 10:37-40)
This was a great interview! My Catholic parish has forbidden us to even DISCUSS lgbt issues in the parish, so it's great to hear and open rational respectful discussion of a difficult topic. GOOD JOB!
I was on the same boat before. Until I realized that it isn't about me. It's not about us. Nor was it ever about satisfying our human desires. We are all flawed. And conquering our flaws makes us worthy children of God. Let's not redefine our faith to suit our lifestyles. Let us not live comfortably in sin. Instead, let us rage against our worldly desires and be aflame for God! Let our hearts burn with desire for God, and God alone! It is not wrong to love. God commands us to love. But that love should be oriented towards God. Our love for each other should lead us to God, not to sin; not to hell. Our journey (life) will only lead us to our destination. There are only two choices. And we get to choose where we want to go. I am still struggling with sin. But this life is not meant to be easy. The devil is cunning. He is a deceiver. He wants to separate us from God. Our God who has loved us even before we were born. The God who has created us. The God who waits for us to come home. May God bless us all. 🙏
As a gay man, I would encourage you to reflect deeply on whether the Catholic Church aligns with your values and supports your journey toward happiness. While it’s worth having open conversations with Church leaders about their stance on homosexuality, it’s also important to acknowledge that many find fulfillment and authenticity outside its structure. Exploring communities that fully embrace and affirm LGBTQ+ identities might lead to a more supportive and enriching spiritual experience.
Is it about alignment with the Catholic Church or about aligning with God and your relationship with God. Who are we worshipping exactly and having a relationship with? I go to church but I take from it what I need and ignore what I don’t. My focus is God always and in all ways not the people in those pews. I can live with myself. Isn’t that what really matters?
I left the Catholic church when I was about 19, so in 2007. I was attending a young adult retreat, and there was one guy at this retreat that gave a talk. It was a pretty generic talk, but at the end he said something to the effect of "Follow your heart, it cannot lead you astray." That stuck with me, and during a meditation later that day, I had my own heart-to-heart with Jesus. He said that no matter where I go, he will always be with me in my heart. I was still young and naive, but those words have stuck with me through the years. In my mind, Jesus gave me permission to be free and follow my heart that day. Has it always been easy? F*ck NO!!! But even through the worst of it, there has always been a deep inner calm in my heart. It beats alongside my heart relentlessly. A call to live my deepest inner Truth. I'm still finding it and figuring it out what it is, but this I know to be true: My heart's deepest desire is, "To live as authentically as possible". Do I have religious trauma? Yes. Have I let it hold me back from living life to the fullest. No. Am I healing? Absolutely. Will I be perfect? Only after I'm dead. My point is: My end goal has always been the same. To seek Truth. To know Truth. To live Truth. To be Truth. I like to think I'm living proof now.
It is more progress than I could have hoped for in my life that the topic is even discussed publicly. For me, coming out has been a very long process, not an event. It still is not perfect or total, but certainly light years from the padlocked closeted existence of my troubled youth. Best to both of you beautiful boys. God's love is unimaginable, and sadly, His church often gives him very poor P.R.
An important point is raised in the video as to the fact that little to no church teaching has been brought forth on the topic of sexuality, despite its relevance. The question arises, why has the Catholic Church been silent, or near silent on the topic? Some might take this silence as condemnation of homosexuality. However, couldn't the same point be made in reverse? There are numerous Protestant denominations who have been far more outspoken against homosexuality with statement after statement after statement of the strongest condemnation from their church leaders. Why is this voice of condemnation so much quieter or far less frequent in their response to the topic of homosexuality in the Catholic Church?
When I returned to the church (Traditional Latin Mass), regular attendance, daily rosary prayer, all aspects of my life improved without effort, and sexual temptation and obsession disappeared 🎉
@@terrlaw328 I remain SSA to a degree, men still capture my attention, but I have no lustful compulsion to indulge; this is a radical change from the very active lascivious and indulgent lifestyle I used to live, and again, it just fell away, I did not have the intention to change that part of me.
I'm curious as to whether or not many, if any, gay catholic people would let themselves be open to a life with a non-catholic or non-religious person or is it a strict matter of following the, "Do not be unequally yoked" idea.
While I ultimately believe the Catholic Church will never truly, fully, affirmingly make space for queer people, I fully respect you and Justin for having this conversation. While I (cishet ally) have gone fully ex-Catholic and personally believe the Church deserves to be abandoned, I get that faith and humans are complicated, and we all need to find what works for us.
Thanks for your sincere sharing. Unfortunately, your questions are all humanistic. You should ask God centric questions and see the difference. Your answer to who is God should be about what He says about Himself in the Bible, not giving Him the attributes you WANT Him to have...in effect making up your own Jesus. Human psychology studies are irrelevant...humanism to the max. Instead of asking what life you want to give to God you need to ask "what life does God want me to lead for His glory?" Those answers are dramatically different. Praying for both of you as I believe you both sincerely have a desire to know and live for God.
Thanks for watching! Yes, these questions are definitely humanistic. I prefer questions that way, because we don't have any solid or investigable way to investigate what a divine agent may want to communicate, let alone of they exist or have the capacity to communicate an imperative.
@GayExTrad God clearly speaks in the Bible. The problem is we don't often like what He says so we say it "isn't clear" when actually it's crystal clear. I find myself often wanting to trust my rational intellect rather than the Bible. The Bible tells us that it contains ALL we for life and Godliness (2 Peter 1.3) Of course, God instructs us not to lean on our own (humanistic) understanding (Proverbs 3.5) but instead to completely trust Him.
I am gay. I left the Catholic Church many years ago. I am an Episcopalian now. I love the Episcopal Church. It is so accepting of gay people. We have same-sex marriage, openly gay priests, etc. I strongly urge anyone interested to give this wonderful church a try.
10 years ago, I would have LOVED seeing this video. Sadly, there was nothing like it. I had to come to terms with my sexuality by my own despite the shame and fear. Creating a community for catholics is a contribution incredibly needed at this moment. Thanks for sharing
I believe in the Blessed Virgin Mary and I am so enamoured with Roman Catholic piety and religiosity. To me that is more important than the sexuality because the Blessed Trinity is inherent in all human conscience. ♥️
@ I believe that the Holy Trinity made humans in his own image and likeness and we possess a small part of divinity in our Mind and Soul, which guides our Free Will and conscience. Being Gay is a non-issue for me as long as we worship Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother who is the replacement of Adam + Eve according to Traditionalist Catholic theology.
@@GayExTrad excuse me ☝️ if you demand for the Catholic Church to affirm queer identities unconditionally then why do you sound annoyed when a someone of Catholic faith is talking about God and the trinity. Can we put away the double standards for these kinds of discussions please?
Very inspiring to see a couple of young men taking up this important topic with depth, commitment and maturity. Please continue to set this needed example for many in our community. God bless you both!
Coming from a Mormon background, I had a very similar experience religious wise! Very grateful gor my journey, I still maintain a strong relationship with God, but no longer feel the burden to listen to the middle man. You can learn great things from church, but a true relationship with Diety comes from within. 🩵 Great video!
Braver than the marines is quite the compliment - but yes, Justin is a strong dude who's out there speaking his truth, and getting shellacked by bigots online in the process
As a gay former Catholic and seminarian, I left the church many years ago and am a happy agnostic. Funny questions for an church where more than half the clergy are closeted gays.....lol
Christianity is about your character, you dont have to be in church to be a Christian, Jesus loves everyone and he wants us to live happy lives not causing harm or sadness to anyone. Other Christians who think you are wronged Because of your sexuality should have God to content with. You don't have to beg the church or anyone for acceptance. Dont fake your life for anyone, it's traumatising.
When we first meet Jesus, I don't think the first thing will be telling him what a wonderful life we've lived; if we're going to believe what the Bible says, it will rather be "standing before the Judgement Seat of Christ". He already knows everything about your life, and now it's time to "burn" away everything that's not of him ( = good and holy) in us. Totally redefining "suffering". The early Christians: being persecuted and killed for their faith. In this podcast: dating is "suffering". Quite typical for our time and culture.
Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality by Wesley Hill and Kathryn Greene-McCreight and Eve Tushnet | Sep 13, 2016 4.6 out of 5 stars 324
The idea of “getting to heaven” was mentioned. This deserves more discussion. Being spiritual beings we are all going to survive the change called death with our same mind, character, personality and a spiritual body. The physical body disintegrates where it is recycled into something else. People who are near death report seeing, hearing and feeling deceased relatives, angels and others. There will be someone who will great us when we make that change called death and we find ourselves back home in the Spirit World. Most Christians do not realize that when Moses and Elias appeared materialized on the mount of transfiguration Jesus was a medium who held a séance. The spirit guide, Evening Star, told us in a seance, “What is Heaven for one person is Hell for another.” She cited the example of listening to rock n roll music. Some people listening to hard rock would be in Heaven, while others would be in Hell. We need to realize that people are different and their idea of heaven and hell are going to be different and change over time. When we were young getting a toy made us happy, later in life we want something different. Heaven and hell are mental and emotional states of consciousness that we experience on Earth and in the Spirit World. Rod McKuen would say words similar to the following at the end of every act. “It does not matter who you love or how you love, but that you love. The good in man is God made manifest and loving is the contribution to that good and to that only God. For in the end the act of loving anyone is the act of loving God.”
Sadly, the basic theological perspective of 'reward and punishment' makes any idea of a totally inclusive and loving God impossible. The whole set up is rigged into a 'win/lose' scenario for everyone. That is not a religion that I want any part of.
1 Corinthians 9 never said homosexuality was a sin until after 1946 with the new revised version. Even the translation from original Greek text doesn’t. Bible translations mattter.
The true original texts said a man shall not lie with an adolescent boy….it DIDNT say man. You have to think of how things were in Biblical times and back then men would sleep with young males “to teach them how to perform in the bedroom.” However, the term used in the original text was changed as if it were speaking of it being a sin for two men.
That's.... not true. The Greek word used is arsenokoitai, which literally means "men-bed", and it's a reference to Leviticus 18:11 which condemns homosexuality.
So many Christians I listen to, like here, seem to require a guidebook by which to live their lives. There is something to be said for using one's own inner guidance to make decisions in life, without having a religious rule-book defining every step you make, isn't there? I left Catholicism as a college student over 40 years ago, never looked back, and have had a full and spiritual life without Catholic doctrine defining my every footstep. It takes courage in oneself to listen and trust what can truly prompt one towards fulfillment. I know there are many other benefits to religion than the rules, but those benefits seem to be much more accessible once the rule-book is discarded.
I genuinely don't like abrahamic religions. It stem from an area of the world where violence were a common occur ancestors, oppressive control were a common accournace due to kings and tribes, amd they do have oppressive ways of thinking that few other religions outside the abrahamic trifecta has. Tbh it wouldn't of had spread without the war fare. Christians across Europe and teh America's spread through war and conquest, islam across north Africa and Middle East, and Judiasm is the only one that didn't spread much through war. I think the real discussion is that are we really considering the abrahamic religions that shaped our ancestral minds and culture through force or aquesition of following power or can we do away with such book and ideology and go back tonthe basics in actually following what makes our lives truly better
It's a club, you can join it or you can join another club. this club is founded on ancient Levantine myths of a Sky god and his wife, one among many gods worshiped by the Jews. Today we have science. We don't need to ascribe thunder to YHWH! when we know about electromagnetism.
I'm seriously interested in joining the Catholic Church, but even though I'm not gay, I find its stance on gay relationships very problematic and sometimes even disturbing.
@GayExTrad I'm not convinced of that right now. I do think that there are some serious problems. One can choose to work on those from the inside, though. I see Catholicism as a big ship that doesn't turn easily. Note that I'm not gay, so they're not asking the impossible from me personally.
This video is not about searching the truth, it is more about self satisfaction. And that is spiritually dangerous. The reason of our lives is not doing what we think will make us happy. We are not in this life to satisfy our fallen desires and tendencies, but to carry our cross and live according to God’s will. Whatever cost. We are all called for chastity, in a certain way, but homosexuals are specially called to it. Don’t deceive yourselves. Once you spiritually understand this concept you will find peace.
This was a great interview. And I’m pretty sure your struggle with your sexuality and the Catholic faith is not an easy one. I will start by saying that the church was made for man and not man for the church. I’m not sure that I’m the one that’s qualified to say anything here, but I will say that the marriage covenant is between a man and a woman because it comes with a command to be fruitful and multiply. Same sex couples cannot achieve that through natural means. And just like single straight people you’re called to a life of Chastity and celibacy. I don’t think the church expects you to live your life alone. I don’t think the church has a problem with you having a companion, but you would still have to be chaste and celibate. The church will not go against your free will, God will not go against your free will. but at the same time, I understand that God doesn’t change and neither does his laws. Sometimes we have to pray for certain things to be removed from us. Sometimes we have to pray for understanding. I would say surround yourself with people that try to understand you with love in their hearts and to guide you in the right direction.There’s a difference between criticism and correction criticism is not always going to help you. Anyway, feel free to ask me questions if you like. God bless you both.
This may hurt you, but that is not what I intend, just consider other points of view and think for yourselves --> You are free to believe whatever you want, but you can't go around the Bible and Church teaching. It's either Christ or the World, you can't make both things fit in, it's either one or the other. You can't serve two masters at once. It requires picking up the Cross and denying one's desires, just because I feel the urge to go and sleep with women doesn't mean I must go and scratch the itch. Everyone has his struggle, the worst thing you could do is lying to people and telling them it's Ok. What is the next video going to be: polygamist Catholics? Also, not having children isn't a part o marriage by the way, intentionally childless marriage and contraception wasn't intended by God. Still, God's love is for everyone but it requires accepting Him and His Holy Law! And He can only be found in His Holy Orthodox Church ☦, unlike the imposter and liar pope Francis is.
"you can't go around the bye bol" I beg to differ. You definitely can. That's why not even people from the same faith can agree on the interpretation. As the institutions that once held monopoly over faith fractured, new sects appeared, each one claiming to be the one and only truth. Even you are going around the bible right now, when you worry more about the speck of dust in your brother's eye, rather than the splinter in your eye. Even though you commit sin every day and get away with it, you still feel the need to distill poison to other sinners, disguised as faith.
To listen to this interview and others, search 'Intrinsically Ordered' on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, TH-cam, etc. (@intrinsicallyordered). To join our discussion community for $1/month and get early access to videos, consider supporting my patreon: patreon.com/c/gayextrad.
Whenever I think about these things, I remember my best friend telling me he was gay and being so afraid to lose me as a friend. I don't want anyone to go through that kind of rejection, not from people and not from any church.
I found peace as a gay man. I left the church and religion altogether. Best decision I ever made.
Leaving the Church means leaving Jesus of Nazareth! Is it worth it?
I defected from the Church to join Buddhism. Humans are religious and I am so happy to be a gay man in a religion that accepts reality. Leaving Christianity was the best decision I ever made.
@@kitiowayep. Leaving Christianity is so freeing ❤
So happy for you!
Just don't leave the Father. He doesn't care who or what we are. Best to you.
this is awesome and you have no idea how long I have been waiting for this
So glad that you're enjoying it!!
No one, no priest, no pope, no king, no one, can tell me who I can or cannot love.
@@joekeller5067 true
say it louder for folks in the back!
@@joekeller5067 if that were true Chrst wouldn’t have said those who divorce and marry another commit adultery.
especially when these priests and popes tell YOU being gay is a sin all while they are sexually abusing under aged boys themselves. These people have turned religion into a scam and a cash grab more than anything else and hide behind it
But God can, and that is what maters. When you realise that your opinion and goals have no importance when it’s not according to God’s plan, you become really humble, take your cross and follow Jesus. Otherwise you are not worthy of Him.
I am now an old man, born 1936. In my hometown I guessed to be the only gay person. I had the chance of meeting a wonderful girl, very attractive, intelligent, good character and prepared to try together the most extravagant things, as emigrating to the Amazonian forests . She was a perfect match. Then there was thiat same sex attraction and I dropped the relation without coming out. I made quite an impressive business career but fell in the trap of wild gay life in Paris and later San Francisco, with sex parties and drugs. I went through hell! It was very difficult to get out of this scene ! In California I met a highly cultivated man, son of a well to do upper class family and very catholic. Without any egoistic intentions he helped me to get free and convinced me to attend mass. He was one of the best persons I have ever met in my life. Now I am living since nearly 40 years with the same partner. We go to mass every Sunday and thank God for a fulfilled life and that we have one another..
its wonderful to see that
@@JorgeStein-q6h sorry a little confused-is your partner that highly cultivated man or did you meet someone else?
Love Justin! I honestly don’t know how he does it, the level of vitriol and hatred directed to him by so called loving Catholics in his IG comment sections is off the charts. I honestly believe that for many of them being a gay affirming Catholic is seen as much worse than being a gay atheist. Kind of interesting to witness.
Yeah, Justin practices a lot of strength in pushing through so much hate online. Terminally online catholics are so terrible to deal with
I am a gay-celibate-Catholic-Christian. A convert. I LOVE my faith.
I am very happy and at peace.
I have been a priest for over 40 years and this is the firt video that maes perfect sense and isa great encouragement and guide for people. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed!
As a former cleric I agree with you 100%.
The one on the right has his head screwed on, although I fear the one on the left has a long way to go (although can’t judge not least because of how at 22 years old he is still young).
Thanks! Very interesting interview. 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am a Catholic and I decide to have a celibate life. I respect what you do to find your path and discuss it openly. Sometimes when I feel lonely and will rewatch this video again. Thank you
So thankful to have you listening - wishing you the best on your journey!
@GayExTrad Though the interpretation of Catholic church is not always correct (eg for sure there is no ground to claim that priests should be single), God exists, only the church (especially religious Order) not follows God's will.
This was well-timed as I just came out to one of my friends last night. And we kind of had a similar conversation like this.
So happy for you!!
In a support group environment I was a mediator in a Catholic church between a group of men. This is huge and insightful.
hmm?
Some good one-liners. I will go back and listen again and jot a few of them down. As a 60-ish year old, single, never partnered, and (not fully) fallen away catholic (I still hold on to the 'real presence' doctrin somehow while even thinking if J. was even real). Anyhow, all I can say it is tougher to 'date' as you grow older - young love is good love, less baggage, less finances, more time ahead of you. That being said, Justin said (paraphrasing) "it is tough navigating/finding love', it is actually 'mathematically' more challenging less of a population to choose from if 10% of the population are gay, and half of that population is cis-the-other-gender the math is working against you - so you have to bring a lot to the table and be bold earlier on. Say, YES more often. Define what you need and want, and what is acceptable at a minimum (non-smoker, not a drug addict, stable, etc.) Don't exactly look for the 10 (if it even exists), look for the 5+, and work on getting each other up to a 10, and heaven - and the people you meet on the way. It will become your journey together. Stay safe, be happy, take chances, be true to yourself and others.
Note: I like how Justin said something like: When I tell God what I did with my life.
Love it!
@@df29208 this was great, great advice.
I'm glad you are expanding your podcasts. Was this done at your new studio you were talking about. You are a very good interviewer. I just saw your second interview on the Dragons of victory. Have you considered sort of turning the tables and interviewing Anthony from the dragons of victory on one of your shows ? Both times I had to go back and watch your interviews with him twice because there was so much interesting substance in what the two of you were talking about. Thank you for doing what you are doing. These are conversations that I have been hoping to find but have not until I discovered you and your podcasts. I can't wait to see what you have coming up next. Keep up the great work you are doing !
Definitely an idea that I've had! Anthony is great
Love seeing video of you speaking with other on thier experience and spiritual journey. I hope you can get more people to interview with. Lot's of love from the Philippines 😊
Yes - please checkout my second channel: intrinsically ordered. I have many interviews with folks who are still religious
I like your conversation and as Catholic Latino therapist I’m always open to learn from everyone talking about this important topic of faith and sexuality which I had treated and I’m not referring to any conversion therapy. Those who had come to therapy were happy to understand that they can be sexually beings and have faith.
That's awesome!
„He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.“ (Matthew 10:37-40)
based?
This was a great interview! My Catholic parish has forbidden us to even DISCUSS lgbt issues in the parish, so it's great to hear and open rational respectful discussion of a difficult topic. GOOD JOB!
Oh wow, I'm sorry your parish is that way, but I'm so glad to have you here listening!
If any person or authority ever tells me I cannot discuss something or voice my opinions….then to hell with them !
I was on the same boat before. Until I realized that it isn't about me. It's not about us. Nor was it ever about satisfying our human desires.
We are all flawed. And conquering our flaws makes us worthy children of God. Let's not redefine our faith to suit our lifestyles. Let us not live comfortably in sin. Instead, let us rage against our worldly desires and be aflame for God! Let our hearts burn with desire for God, and God alone!
It is not wrong to love. God commands us to love. But that love should be oriented towards God. Our love for each other should lead us to God, not to sin; not to hell.
Our journey (life) will only lead us to our destination. There are only two choices. And we get to choose where we want to go.
I am still struggling with sin. But this life is not meant to be easy.
The devil is cunning. He is a deceiver. He wants to separate us from God. Our God who has loved us even before we were born. The God who has created us. The God who waits for us to come home.
May God bless us all. 🙏
Great and very thought-provoking video. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
As a gay man, I would encourage you to reflect deeply on whether the Catholic Church aligns with your values and supports your journey toward happiness. While it’s worth having open conversations with Church leaders about their stance on homosexuality, it’s also important to acknowledge that many find fulfillment and authenticity outside its structure. Exploring communities that fully embrace and affirm LGBTQ+ identities might lead to a more supportive and enriching spiritual experience.
I fully agree - I've left all together but wanted to post this interview to help folks still wrestling from within the church
Is it about alignment with the Catholic Church or about aligning with God and your relationship with God. Who are we worshipping exactly and having a relationship with? I go to church but I take from it what I need and ignore what I don’t. My focus is God always and in all ways not the people in those pews. I can live with myself. Isn’t that what really matters?
I left the Catholic church when I was about 19, so in 2007. I was attending a young adult retreat, and there was one guy at this retreat that gave a talk. It was a pretty generic talk, but at the end he said something to the effect of "Follow your heart, it cannot lead you astray." That stuck with me, and during a meditation later that day, I had my own heart-to-heart with Jesus. He said that no matter where I go, he will always be with me in my heart. I was still young and naive, but those words have stuck with me through the years. In my mind, Jesus gave me permission to be free and follow my heart that day. Has it always been easy? F*ck NO!!! But even through the worst of it, there has always been a deep inner calm in my heart. It beats alongside my heart relentlessly. A call to live my deepest inner Truth. I'm still finding it and figuring it out what it is, but this I know to be true: My heart's deepest desire is, "To live as authentically as possible".
Do I have religious trauma? Yes. Have I let it hold me back from living life to the fullest. No. Am I healing? Absolutely. Will I be perfect? Only after I'm dead.
My point is: My end goal has always been the same. To seek Truth. To know Truth. To live Truth. To be Truth.
I like to think I'm living proof now.
It is more progress than I could have hoped for in my life that the topic is even discussed publicly. For me, coming out has been a very long process, not an event. It still is not perfect or total, but certainly light years from the padlocked closeted existence of my troubled youth. Best to both of you beautiful boys. God's love is unimaginable, and sadly, His church often gives him very poor P.R.
Thanks for this. Thanks for helping!
You bet!
You open my deepest heart to live as I have been called. Thank you.
Wow, thank you
An important point is raised in the video as to the fact that little to no church teaching has been brought forth on the topic of sexuality, despite its relevance. The question arises, why has the Catholic Church been silent, or near silent on the topic? Some might take this silence as condemnation of homosexuality. However, couldn't the same point be made in reverse? There are numerous Protestant denominations who have been far more outspoken against homosexuality with statement after statement after statement of the strongest condemnation from their church leaders. Why is this voice of condemnation so much quieter or far less frequent in their response to the topic of homosexuality in the Catholic Church?
Good point!
Amazing content thank you for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Justin and I were at the same campus ministry when he was a missionary! Hi Justin, let's catch up soon! :)
Very inspiring
Yes to the next step ❤😊
When I returned to the church (Traditional Latin Mass), regular attendance, daily rosary prayer, all aspects of my life improved without effort, and sexual temptation and obsession disappeared 🎉
How long ago was that?
@@GayExTrad February 2022
I think you mean to say that you suppressed them temporarily. Been there, none that. You cannot deny your true nature.
@@terrlaw328 I remain SSA to a degree, men still capture my attention, but I have no lustful compulsion to indulge; this is a radical change from the very active lascivious and indulgent lifestyle I used to live, and again, it just fell away, I did not have the intention to change that part of me.
I salute you for bringing up this subject. The Catholic Church is like an large ship It takes many nudges for it to change direction.
This made me cry 😢
🫂🫂
I'm curious as to whether or not many, if any, gay catholic people would let themselves be open to a life with a non-catholic or non-religious person or is it a strict matter of following the, "Do not be unequally yoked" idea.
I would imagine most gay catholics are open to being in relationship with non-religious folks
While I ultimately believe the Catholic Church will never truly, fully, affirmingly make space for queer people, I fully respect you and Justin for having this conversation. While I (cishet ally) have gone fully ex-Catholic and personally believe the Church deserves to be abandoned, I get that faith and humans are complicated, and we all need to find what works for us.
Good interview. You should do one with Brandan Robertson
I may reach out - thanks for the suggestion!
Thanks for your sincere sharing. Unfortunately, your questions are all humanistic. You should ask God centric questions and see the difference. Your answer to who is God should be about what He says about Himself in the Bible, not giving Him the attributes you WANT Him to have...in effect making up your own Jesus. Human psychology studies are irrelevant...humanism to the max. Instead of asking what life you want to give to God you need to ask "what life does God want me to lead for His glory?" Those answers are dramatically different. Praying for both of you as I believe you both sincerely have a desire to know and live for God.
Thanks for watching! Yes, these questions are definitely humanistic. I prefer questions that way, because we don't have any solid or investigable way to investigate what a divine agent may want to communicate, let alone of they exist or have the capacity to communicate an imperative.
@GayExTrad God clearly speaks in the Bible. The problem is we don't often like what He says so we say it "isn't clear" when actually it's crystal clear. I find myself often wanting to trust my rational intellect rather than the Bible. The Bible tells us that it contains ALL we for life and Godliness (2 Peter 1.3) Of course, God instructs us not to lean on our own (humanistic) understanding (Proverbs 3.5) but instead to completely trust Him.
„Together with God all things are possible.“ (Dolly Parton)
dolly moment
I am gay. I left the Catholic Church many years ago. I am an Episcopalian now. I love the Episcopal Church. It is so accepting of gay people. We have same-sex marriage, openly gay priests, etc. I strongly urge anyone interested to give this wonderful church a try.
Very cool!
@@GayExTrad Thank you. I subscribed to your channel. I look forward to seeing more videos from it. All the best.
Thanks for the great video. I’m trans and Anglican.
Thanks for watching!
I’m glad to come out as lgbt in December 2024
So happy for you!!
Beautiful guys.
thanks haha
10 years ago, I would have LOVED seeing this video. Sadly, there was nothing like it. I had to come to terms with my sexuality by my own despite the shame and fear. Creating a community for catholics is a contribution incredibly needed at this moment. Thanks for sharing
thanks for watching! We neeeeed more voices in this space to help folks like you and I - wish we could've started pushing back earlier
I believe in the Blessed Virgin Mary and I am so enamoured with Roman Catholic piety and religiosity. To me that is more important than the sexuality because the Blessed Trinity is inherent in all human conscience. ♥️
Bruh, how in tf is the trinity inherent in all human conscience?
@ I believe that the Holy Trinity made humans in his own image and likeness and we possess a small part of divinity in our Mind and Soul, which guides our Free Will and conscience. Being Gay is a non-issue for me as long as we worship Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother who is the replacement of Adam + Eve according to Traditionalist Catholic theology.
@@GayExTrad excuse me ☝️ if you demand for the Catholic Church to affirm queer identities unconditionally then why do you sound annoyed when a someone of Catholic faith is talking about God and the trinity. Can we put away the double standards for these kinds of discussions please?
Very inspiring to see a couple of young men taking up this important topic with depth, commitment and maturity. Please continue to set this needed example for many in our community. God bless you both!
Coming from a Mormon background, I had a very similar experience religious wise! Very grateful gor my journey, I still maintain a strong relationship with God, but no longer feel the burden to listen to the middle man. You can learn great things from church, but a true relationship with Diety comes from within. 🩵
Great video!
🙏🙏
I saw that guy on insta, damn he gets so much hate in the comments, braver than the marines
Braver than the marines is quite the compliment - but yes, Justin is a strong dude who's out there speaking his truth, and getting shellacked by bigots online in the process
As a gay former Catholic and seminarian, I left the church many years ago and am a happy agnostic. Funny questions for an church where more than half the clergy are closeted gays.....lol
yesssss, it's a wild institution made of men who are both victims or perpetrators of homophobia/religious trauma
God is loving and patient 🙏💕💕🙏❤
Christianity is about your character, you dont have to be in church to be a Christian, Jesus loves everyone and he wants us to live happy lives not causing harm or sadness to anyone. Other Christians who think you are wronged Because of your sexuality should have God to content with. You don't have to beg the church or anyone for acceptance. Dont fake your life for anyone, it's traumatising.
Don't sin
Say it louder for folks in the back!
@@GayExTrad you cant be christian if youre simply going to ignore the bible lol
And that’s why I’m Episcopal
Love it!
Same. I left the RC Church many years ago and now I’m discerning the Diaconate in my Episcopal Church.
interesting video
🙏🙏🙏
When we first meet Jesus, I don't think the first thing will be telling him what a wonderful life we've lived; if we're going to believe what the Bible says, it will rather be "standing before the Judgement Seat of Christ". He already knows everything about your life, and now it's time to "burn" away everything that's not of him ( = good and holy) in us.
Totally redefining "suffering". The early Christians: being persecuted and killed for their faith. In this podcast: dating is "suffering". Quite typical for our time and culture.
Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality
Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality
by Wesley Hill and Kathryn Greene-McCreight and Eve Tushnet | Sep 13, 2016
4.6 out of 5 stars 324
What’s the thesis?
The idea of “getting to heaven” was mentioned. This deserves more discussion. Being spiritual beings we are all going to survive the change called death with our same mind, character, personality and a spiritual body. The physical body disintegrates where it is recycled into something else.
People who are near death report seeing, hearing and feeling deceased relatives, angels and others. There will be someone who will great us when we make that change called death and we find ourselves back home in the Spirit World.
Most Christians do not realize that when Moses and Elias appeared materialized on the mount of transfiguration Jesus was a medium who held a séance.
The spirit guide, Evening Star, told us in a seance, “What is Heaven for one person is Hell for another.” She cited the example of listening to rock n roll music. Some people listening to hard rock would be in Heaven, while others would be in Hell. We need to realize that people are different and their idea of heaven and hell are going to be different and change over time. When we were young getting a toy made us happy, later in life we want something different. Heaven and hell are mental and emotional states of consciousness that we experience on Earth and in the Spirit World.
Rod McKuen would say words similar to the following at the end of every act. “It does not matter who you love or how you love, but that you love. The good in man is God made manifest and loving is the contribution to that good and to that only God. For in the end the act of loving anyone is the act of loving God.”
Prove it!
Someone joined a cult
God loves everyone.
Great sentiment
Oohh I’m seated😊
🪑 👑
If it occurs in nature, then it is natural. The whole argument around "natural law," which is so old and stale, just doesn't make any sense.
This is an awful argument
exactly
Sadly, the basic theological perspective of 'reward and punishment' makes any idea of a totally inclusive and loving God impossible. The whole set up is rigged into a 'win/lose' scenario for everyone. That is not a religion that I want any part of.
112%
I left the Church but not the faith.
Nice!
Amazing, being Queer & having a relationship with God is not mutually exclusive.
For many, that’s very true!
I’m a celibate gay Christian, I left Courage Apostolate after they endorsed Fiducia Supplicans. I don’t need easy, empty liberal faith.
lmfao
Love is Love !!!
stop seeing your sexuality as something political
We help each other get to Heaven 💗🙏❤
1 Corinthians 9 never said homosexuality was a sin until after 1946 with the new revised version. Even the translation from original Greek text doesn’t. Bible translations mattter.
Interesting
Paul was a false prophet
The true original texts said a man shall not lie with an adolescent boy….it DIDNT say man. You have to think of how things were in Biblical times and back then men would sleep with young males “to teach them how to perform in the bedroom.” However, the term used in the original text was changed as if it were speaking of it being a sin for two men.
That's.... not true. The Greek word used is arsenokoitai, which literally means "men-bed", and it's a reference to Leviticus 18:11 which condemns homosexuality.
It's is 1 Cor 6:9-11 Not 1 Cor 9. "Malakos" actually means what it means.
So many Christians I listen to, like here, seem to require a guidebook by which to live their lives. There is something to be said for using one's own inner guidance to make decisions in life, without having a religious rule-book defining every step you make, isn't there? I left Catholicism as a college student over 40 years ago, never looked back, and have had a full and spiritual life without Catholic doctrine defining my every footstep. It takes courage in oneself to listen and trust what can truly prompt one towards fulfillment. I know there are many other benefits to religion than the rules, but those benefits seem to be much more accessible once the rule-book is discarded.
The main difference is I can prove sex exists 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂
It's easier to forsake abrahamic religions altogether. We can find our spirituality in the least probable places, specially closer to nature.
I fully agree
I genuinely don't like abrahamic religions. It stem from an area of the world where violence were a common occur ancestors, oppressive control were a common accournace due to kings and tribes, amd they do have oppressive ways of thinking that few other religions outside the abrahamic trifecta has. Tbh it wouldn't of had spread without the war fare. Christians across Europe and teh America's spread through war and conquest, islam across north Africa and Middle East, and Judiasm is the only one that didn't spread much through war. I think the real discussion is that are we really considering the abrahamic religions that shaped our ancestral minds and culture through force or aquesition of following power or can we do away with such book and ideology and go back tonthe basics in actually following what makes our lives truly better
Let's become pagan? Great take for Gay Christian. Our sexual inclinations take us out of the church.
It's a club, you can join it or you can join another club. this club is founded on ancient Levantine myths of a Sky god and his wife, one among many gods worshiped by the Jews. Today we have science. We don't need to ascribe thunder to YHWH! when we know about electromagnetism.
Full agree
For me leaving the RCC and just becoming a non believer I’ve found happiness and peace. #HAPPYAPOSTATE
Love that for you!!
I'm seriously interested in joining the Catholic Church, but even though I'm not gay, I find its stance on gay relationships very problematic and sometimes even disturbing.
I'll save you a few years of life by saying: don't join. They don't have any good reasons to join
@GayExTrad I'm not convinced of that right now. I do think that there are some serious problems. One can choose to work on those from the inside, though. I see Catholicism as a big ship that doesn't turn easily.
Note that I'm not gay, so they're not asking the impossible from me personally.
Consider the Anglican/Episcopal church which is more progressive if you can't find a home in Catholicism :)
to rely on psychology will get us nowhere
Hmm?
I want to marry Justin 😊
he's taken, haha
I just want to say, "Who cares."
Hmm?
❤
🙏
REALLY?!?!?! Hu ? … sounds like the blind leading the blind.
bruv
There are no saviors, not god, not king, nor hero.
112%
This video is not about searching the truth, it is more about self satisfaction. And that is spiritually dangerous. The reason of our lives is not doing what we think will make us happy. We are not in this life to satisfy our fallen desires and tendencies, but to carry our cross and live according to God’s will. Whatever cost. We are all called for chastity, in a certain way, but homosexuals are specially called to it. Don’t deceive yourselves. Once you spiritually understand this concept you will find peace.
blah blah blah
"And that is spiritually dangerous"
Spirituality is dangerous in itself. And now?
Paul wasn’t in favor in forcing chastity on others
This was a great interview. And I’m pretty sure your struggle with your sexuality and the Catholic faith is not an easy one. I will start by saying that the church was made for man and not man for the church. I’m not sure that I’m the one that’s qualified to say anything here, but I will say that the marriage covenant is between a man and a woman because it comes with a command to be fruitful and multiply. Same sex couples cannot achieve that through natural means. And just like single straight people you’re called to a life of Chastity and celibacy. I don’t think the church expects you to live your life alone. I don’t think the church has a problem with you having a companion, but you would still have to be chaste and celibate. The church will not go against your free will, God will not go against your free will. but at the same time, I understand that God doesn’t change and neither does his laws. Sometimes we have to pray for certain things to be removed from us. Sometimes we have to pray for understanding. I would say surround yourself with people that try to understand you with love in their hearts and to guide you in the right direction.There’s a difference between criticism and correction criticism is not always going to help you. Anyway, feel free to ask me questions if you like. God bless you both.
Sure seems like God’s laws sure have changed a lot …
@ in what way?
This may hurt you, but that is not what I intend, just consider other points of view and think for yourselves --> You are free to believe whatever you want, but you can't go around the Bible and Church teaching. It's either Christ or the World, you can't make both things fit in, it's either one or the other. You can't serve two masters at once. It requires picking up the Cross and denying one's desires, just because I feel the urge to go and sleep with women doesn't mean I must go and scratch the itch. Everyone has his struggle, the worst thing you could do is lying to people and telling them it's Ok. What is the next video going to be: polygamist Catholics? Also, not having children isn't a part o marriage by the way, intentionally childless marriage and contraception wasn't intended by God. Still, God's love is for everyone but it requires accepting Him and His Holy Law! And He can only be found in His Holy Orthodox Church ☦, unlike the imposter and liar pope Francis is.
Not the ortho bros spewing half-baked apologetics on my ex-catholic TH-cam channel
@@GayExTrad This doesn't make for an argument neither does it display Christian values
@@GayExTrad That doesn't make for an argument, neither does it display Christian values.
@@GayExTrad Neither does deleting comments
"you can't go around the bye bol"
I beg to differ. You definitely can. That's why not even people from the same faith can agree on the interpretation. As the institutions that once held monopoly over faith fractured, new sects appeared, each one claiming to be the one and only truth.
Even you are going around the bible right now, when you worry more about the speck of dust in your brother's eye, rather than the splinter in your eye. Even though you commit sin every day and get away with it, you still feel the need to distill poison to other sinners, disguised as faith.
What are afraid of most of the priest of your faith are gay especially the sect called the legion of christ some 60 000 strong resident of the Vatican
Yeah, the majority of priests are gay
Read some John Boswell RIP prof.Yale
I'll have to look him up
there is no conversation until someone proves there is a god.
I agree epistemologically, but I see this conversation more as helpful for those who still believe there is a god
To listen to this interview and others, search 'Intrinsically Ordered' on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, TH-cam, etc. (@intrinsicallyordered).
To join our discussion community for $1/month and get early access to videos, consider supporting my patreon: patreon.com/c/gayextrad.