Finding the right DAWLESS setup // MPC is too good to be true 😢
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Finding the right DAWLESS set up // MPC is too good to be true 😢
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MPC is a beast as a brain of the operation but it has an obvious weak point.
CONTENT OF THE VIDEO:
0:00 Hello
0:09 my DAWLESS experience
2:28 Set up + Concept
4:20 DAWLESS iterations
5:45 Syncing + Tracking
6:18 Program Change
7:30 MPC + Midi Control :-(
9:44 (MPC) Alternatives and Insights
11:06 Distribute your music with DistroKid // How to use Hyperfollow
12:06 Thanks for watching // Ways of supporting me
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#dawless #akai #mpc #elektron - เพลง
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As a former engineer I would say that Flaky functionality is included because the marketers/project managers insist.
Yeah I totally understand that.
Years ago I had the Kawai Drum machines they were amazing machines for the time...I left electronic music for decades and returned a few years back.
Buying a few brands like The Roland Tr8-S, Deluge, but I have had the Mpc One sat in its box for ages and finally got it up running properly , this is the one I was looking for. Its pads are great for finger druming live into its amazing sequencer and all of its other features like the fact you can easily sample vinal .
Amazing machine .
Awesome! Glad to help! :-)
roughly the same setup approach for my live project and I ended up with an Octatrack MK2 after countless attempts with Akai MPC one and a Digitone / Nord Drum3p.. sold the MPC in the end.. :) now I'm super happy and comfy with my all Elektron setup! seamless pattern changes, super performance oriented and endless possibilities comes with them cheerfully 🤩 good luck ! ✌
Honestly…Elektron might just be the way to go for me too…it’s just so solid
@@LiamKillen definitely! no need more adventures for me tho.. :) Right now I'm using a Syntakt & Digitone with the OT as master, amazing combo and highly recomended!
@@LiamKillen Elektron boxes including the OT are of the most solid devices i've used (apart from all analogue ones that is). Once you're used to their workflow they open up a lot of possibilities.
One thing they all share is the fact they're hugely performance oriented while also giving you the ability to just build sounds, patterns and such. But you always are right there at the controls.
Where they differ is.. well they all have their own little quirks and differences. The way kits, sounds and patterns are handled arent always the same, but they usually have the same depths. So it's just a matter of getting used to it.
The Octatrack is just super quirky but also very useful for many things - mixer, live looper, playback for samples/stems, midi sequencer. It's hard to make it do all and everything at once but to be honest, in that case I'd rather use two anyways because its just a lot to deal with on a single device.
It's also singlehandedly the most creative box I own.
And if I remember this right elektron boxes can do things like pattern changes instantly between each other, but usually not with other gear you have from different companies.
Thanks for the reassurance I needed. Look, I’ve struggled with external midi for many months on my MPC Live, but finally had a breakthrough today, with my Blackstar midi foot controller. None of the forums really helped, it was a matter of trial and error, and regularly questioning my will to keep trying. Seems the MPC is worth the effort, and the updates are superb - looks like version 3 of the software will be unreal, 3rd party plugins, and perhaps Midi2.0? Good luck in your live adventures
I know it gets to a point where it’s so specific that you have to figure it out yourself lol
From one drummer to another...I love synths etc too.
Drumma brotha
@@LiamKillen 👍 there are musicians and there's drummers...hehe. My friend beta tests and works with the Akai development team and he's helped with midi implementations for other companies. I'm going to share this video with him. I think he will be interested to see this feedback. I'll keep you posted if I get anything back from him.
And lastly that track at 9:30 seconds is smooth. Keep making music!
Always! Appreciate you watching
Great video and excellent points! I've talked about the mpc with you before and after watching this, I do agree with your opinions about the issues. I use my mpc as strictly a studio midi brain and I could definitely see the flaws in a live atmosphere with it. The new update is sort of bitter sweet to me because I like the added probably a lot, as I depend on my kids to make music(if they are still head bobbin' and grooving and haven't left yet then I'm ok), so keeping the music evolving is a nice touch and is something I liked about other products. But I do noticed that now ny mpc constantly forget what USB midi I use and I have to reset it almost every time I turn it on, sometimes more than once. It's a bit annoying, not a deal breaker, but definitely not cool. But I really love the machine for what I use it for, which is sequencing external gear. Can't wait to see what you come up with. The octatrack does look sweet
If you can work around it in the studio that’s fine but I’m a live setting…nope
I went dawless with Mpc live for a few years. I enjoyed my time with that approach. Now days I am more like 60% dawless where I eventually get the tracks into Ableton for the final arrangement and mixing. I still use the Mpc, but lots of other groove boxes and instruments too. I now feel like I am getting the best of both worlds.
In terms of music they I release that’s pretty much where I’m at too!
MPC is a DAW.
Kinda. I mean it's basically a DAWaaI (DAW as an Instrument) similar to the Ableton Push. Still gets rid of the need for a traditional computer DAW setup@@chriskropotkin9643
Akai force is like Ableton in a box. You can see all your sequences on 8 tracks, control CV, midi but the footprint is bigger.
*in Obi-wans voice* “ you need the force Liam!”
Midi control is probably the same sort of deal though! I lost confidence in it
@@LiamKillen one of the biggest features in ableton is “session” view. You can see all your sequences (1,2,4,8 bars etc etc) and literally trigger them per sequence or all at once in a row. I had the MPC Live, great instrument but not built for what you’re trying to accomplish. The Akai Force is literally the MPC “in the style of” Ableton. I use both and I can say without a doubt that this would be what you’re looking for. Plus you can map that midi beast to whatever parameters in Akai Force and then some. When the force first came out it was $2300. I bought it at that price ;-( , then is dropped to $1200 (a steal) now it’s up to $1600. I think you can get used ones for $1000-1300 range.
I have found a new love in the Polyend Play. It’s a super minimal setup that plays well with all my synths.
I’ll probably have my hands on one in the near (ish) future
@@LiamKillen When you consider how portable it is for your live sets, you might find yourself saying , “Where have you been all my life?” You can charge your phone and the Play on the same usb bank.
I’m totally dawless. I only use my Mac to record. As for my live setup: mc707, sp404, Korg Miniloguexd, iPad Pro. The iPad is a great tool, I can trigger sequences on the fly with different apps that eliminates more physical gear. Depending on the gig, sometimes I bring the MPC One. And always bring my bass.
You’ve got everything ya need right there
Which generation? May I ask, how old of an ipad pro could I use, considering limited funds?
Ableton and push 2 or the original DAW in a box - Octatrack are your ideal tools. The Octa with scene morph and live resampling and mixer capabilities is your best bet IMHO. And you already know Elektron workflow so you’re almost there.
Yeah it seems that's where it's gonna go- that or ableton. Or maybe both.
I totally agree that the MPc software doesn’t place nice with external controllers, however I am not really worried by that as I don’t use it live. If I were to use it that way I think I would re program the q links for each sequence for effects parameters, cut off etc and use the screen for track mutes next sequence and so on. It’s a different workflow but with practice I think it could be practical. I find one of the benefits of the MpC One is there really isn’t that much menu diving as there is a button that gives you quick access to most things. Workflow however is a very personal thing so like others have mentioned learning Ableton or a Deluge could be a good call.
Yeah internal is the way to go however I’m trying to eliminate jumping back and forth between pages which is why I’m using this controller
I snagged an Akai Force specifically for live stuff, could be the move, but it's still Akai so it will likely have the issues you had on the One. The force does have disk streaming though which helps for live stuff with stems.
I’ve heard great things but have sort of ditched the idea of MPC for midi control. I need something solid for a live set up and I kind of lost confidence after this
@@LiamKillen that's so understandable dude! Octatrack or digitakt and SP404mk2 might be the move
@@LiamKillen Have you seen EZBOT talk about using his Octatrack for live perf and how much he loves it? I mean ...the newest one where he discusses this...it's a common theme over at his space lol th-cam.com/video/_0x-q-skkN8/w-d-xo.html
Made me want one even more badly...but wife said we cannot afford my gear addiction, no more new gear for at least one year. Sad.
@@LiamKillen I'm reluctant to recommend something you don't have since 'the grass is always greener' and such, but I came here to mention the Force too. The reason being is the ableton live looping/clip launching it does really leans into what your trying to do, and if your using it as a clip launcher+ you won't need to menu dive when live.
If you go the ableton route for looping and clips (a good non akai solution) I feel you'd want to add some sort of launchpad to utilise it.
I would have a talk to tubedigga about the force I feel he'd know if there's bugs with what your trying to do.
I first started with the NI Maschine MK2 but slowly switched to DAWless. I can very much relate to the struggle. There isn't an honest to god "master brain" DAWless box out there. The closest thing to. that IMO is a collection of Elektron boxes. If you haven't watched Analog Kitchen, check him out. He uses the MPC and Octatrack together and often explains his whole setup. The Elektron pattern change issue is real fun. Also, I recently got an Octatrack MK2, and it's the most difficult-to-learn piece of gear I have. Takes a lot of effort to get things set up how you like, but can do a million different things. I've decided I'm just going to use it as a live performance mixer like EZBot does. Nothing else on the market can do that specifically. But the downside is you only get 4 inputs lol. So yeah. The DAWless world really needs something new that solves a lot of these issues.
Yeah Elektron is where I’m at since filming this video!
I love the channel and this video was great but what is a MeeDee controller? Also you might want to try and akai Force. It's a great Segway from MPC to Ableton
I lost confidence in akai for what I’m trying to do
If I were to quit doing music, I'd still hang onto the Blackbox. It hit everything I was looking for and behaves pretty much exactly as I want something to.
Last week we did this sort of play over a mash-up "radio" broadcast...and that Blackbox handled playing the 20 minute base sample, with a dozen other samples such as drums, running at the same time. Sent a few out through other channels for some heavy distortion effects...and it never blinked once. Let a friend borrow it and he used it for a podcast where he needed to play back clips during an interview, which was really under-utilizing it, but it mixed in flawlessly. And it's been used to do some quick and dirty full song playbacks, so it could be sliced up and re-arranged to try out some different structures and flow on it. It's getting to the point I just want to carry it everywhere just in case.
Playing wise, we don't rely on syncing anything up except by ear and nothing is clocked. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. (We opted to draw a line far from an idea where'd feel like we were just hitting play and everything would be perfect.) None of the gear is really connected except the Beatstep to the Blackbox, the Keystep to several synths, a couple of which are set to the same midi channel and we just turn the volume down if we want one standalone, and then there is a passive matrix mixer for a few other ... "synths" I suppose they could be called, for doing various combinations of mixing and routing them through pedals or effects.
I’ve had a minute with the black box! But didn’t get that far into it
I'm finally dawless now! It took a while but finally there. Running an MPC X as my brain, synced with two RC505s (one for instruments and one for vocals) and using a Zoom L-20 for the mixing.
I'm in a similar boat as you when it comes to being clueless in Ableton. Gonna try out the Force and see if i can make it work. You might be able to use the force for what you're trying to do as well. Great clip launching capabilities for performing released songs.
Sounds like a VERY sick set up.
Really be interested in watching a follow up to this and hearing what final set up was for the gig. Im in a similar boat of having a few pieces of gear but wanting to go dawless for live performances (and a logic user).
I have the next iteration coming out pretty soon actually
The drumbrute impact syncs nice with the mpc as a second drum for transition
I bet you’re using the MPC as a brain then right? It’s killer for that sort of set up but when you try to control IT…different story
I’d love to hear your perspective on the maschine mk3/plus unless you’ve already covered it! Great stuff
I'm not super familair with it - BUT i'm sure there's a bunch of people in my Discord that can give you a better opinion: discord.gg/xj8J2xJuBP
You should try the Synthstrom Deluge. It plays stems very well and you can make scenes. Also midi mapping is easy and it is stored per project. The effects are ok so adding some external FX would complete the setup.
It keeps coming up and is def on my radar
This.
I used Cubase for ten years and now Studio One for 4 years, but that being said, I know Ableton pretty well. It's not very difficult to get used to, pretty intuitive once you get the basics down. 👍🏾
Yeah that’s what I figure. Lap top on stage though…that I’m still not sure about
@@LiamKillen yeh, feels ya... Will send some thoughts to the mpc programmers to sort out the midi issues instead then
Also maybe the X might be for you... Not quite as portable but the q links might help instead.
You don't need a smart midi cable to do your program change. On your MPC you go into List Edit and on the first beat of the bar you send a CC message 35 (start/restart) and on the last beat of the bar you send a CC message 34 (stop).
Basically it tells your Digitakt stop and restart immediately. So it stops your Digitakt sequencer at the end of the bar, the program change happens and the sequencer starts again. This also works for an Octratrack for example. The stop and start/restart happens so fast you won't notice it.
Oh that’s great! Thanks!
Great video I’m looking forward to your dawless performance solutions in the future! Look into the Akai Force, i’ve heard many reviewers say it’s the closest thing to a dawless version of ableton. I have an MPC one and I have been looking into using it for dawless performance too so if you could make that work some how that would be epic indeed
Kind of lost confidence in akai for live dawless tbh!
I was scared of Ableton too at first. Once I got the basics I refuse to go back to Logic.
For now i'm sticking to DAWLESS just because that's sort of what this channel has become about- but I actually own Ableton! Just never got around to learning how to use it.
@@LiamKillen I dig it. I love dawless and daws.
Well I like to play my instruments (piano and synths) dawless or … like instruments. But when it comes to sequencing and effects … I feel that nothing beets Ableton honestly. While I like the MPC for messing around with samples and chopping I vastly prefer Ableton for sequencing and effects. It just works. Add some nice MIDI controllers and it‘s just perfect.
Op-Z (2x 1/4”), iPhone (usb-c), mic (mic in) all into the SP-404-mkii. You could even daisy chain the op-1 field thru the op-z. Live this gives you an easy, uncluttered sound with just enough limits. And KILLER master fx.
😏
I've got the MPC working well in my dawless setup now. There's one particular thing that was causing freezing and bugs that I figured out how to avoid. Full video on it here:
th-cam.com/video/AeJEYK78elM/w-d-xo.html
Also, Liam, I've found your videos thoroughly inspiring, entertaining, and enlightening. (We walk a very similar path.. here in Canada).
Thank you ! Mad respect.
Oh thank you Mike! I appreciate you stopping by 😊
First of all I love your videos so far, very informative! I'm commenting to say though that you would absolutely love Ableton live. With all the experience and all the samplers you have you would learn it in a second. And I think you would be pretty mind blown by how easy it is to use and how powerful it is. Just a thought. Thanks for the videos!
Here is my followup video to this comment haha: th-cam.com/video/XPA1Cb7nTSE/w-d-xo.html
Great video 👍. I've been trying to build a set-up around my MPC One but I have a tendency to overcomplicate. That's led me to conclude that I'll just put a lot of stuff in prepared loops with just a bit of live play over the top.
If you’re using at as the master it can handle it- it’s just when you start to try and control it
It’s an alpha!
@@LiamKillen my big hang-up is that one either has to have the whole set in a single song on the One or have a way to let other gear bridge the gap while the One loads another song.
Yea I'm going DAWless too... I'm using a Korg minilouge XD module, Arturia minibrute 2s, and it's being sequenced by the MPC live 1. The MPC is doing the drums, minilouge is doing synth stuff and the minibrute is doing arpeggios. When I have the Korg plugged in via USB, it's constantly sending midi clock to the MPC even though midi clock is off so I got a midi cable going out to the minilouge. The minibrute works great using either USB or midi cables... I'm using an M-audio keystudio to play all the parts except the drums. The MPC still crashes every now and then, it's so frustrating... I'm thinking about selling it and trying out the MPCX just to give it one last shot. There's a guy on TH-cam named Ben Cottrell that uses Roland FANTOM with his MPC X and he swears by it. I'm about to put a Fantom-08 in layaway tomorrow because I want the 16 midi tracks and the sounds in the keyboard. After that my setup will be complete!!! 🤩
Set up for champions over here!
Great subject and video! I use a live drum kit with a few synths and Korg Kross 2. Keystep Pro changed things for the better for me. Room for 16 projects which can be doubled (or more) using the Scenes. I sketch the bass, synths, piano and drums in then add to those live with other keys and percussion. I came here because I can see I'm going to run out of Project space. Thanks!
It's a pleasure! Thanks for watching :-)
Really enjoyed that video Liam. I'm on a similar quest as you are/were trying to sort out a dawless setup for live shows. On the MPC One, if you upload a sample at say 130 BPM, does it stay at that tempo or if you're playing and the master tempo is set to 135 BPM, will the sample loaded still play at 130 or will it stretch to 135?
I'm not too certain on the time stretching / tempo question.
as from 15+Ableton produser's perspective, who is fully into MPC ONE nowadays - I do absolutely agree!
PS: there is one major con though - I cant fc7ng finish any of my 8 bars ideas 😅
Lol!
SAME
Cheers to your always comprehensive and seamless recaps .. which makes it so easy to process !
🍻
My setup is super minimal. MPC one, arturia minilab controller. I stopped doing sequences and just started making one long sequence basically using the grid mode as a linear daw. Now I can complete songs 🤷🏽♀️
Hey if it works it works
Interested video. We are not their yet with the perfect DAWLESS solution. Been messing around with the same inspiration but using the Polyend Tracker as the brain. All depends on music type and the MIDI word! Maybe bring a iPad into the mix and use AUM as the main Audio midi router and effects and use midi learn with a decent Akai controller.
It’ll never be perfect!
I took a different approach with MPC ONE, I use a audio interface and route the individual channels to a mixing board were I can control everything manually.
Oh nice!
I love Ableton!
Most people who use it do!
You really should take a look at Force if you want something like Ableton in a box. Force has really great macro controls, a clip launcher, and an arranger. The arranger can handle that foundation of the track you were talking about, and then you can improv over the top with clips, playing other devices, and so on. You can assign macros to the buttons on the matrix, and the OLED knobs have two sets that you can switch between for a total of 16 real time controls. Pretty much all your MPC knowledge will transfer.
A bunch of people have suggested it but I lost confidence in cc midi control in akai stuff for what I’m trying to do
@@LiamKillen the macros feature on Force is something different and a lot more sophisticated than midi learn.
What were you trying to do with midi learn that didn’t work? I saw you said the MPC was forgetting your parameters, which sucks obviously, but were you having issues with setting up the midi mappings in the first place as well? I’ve only played with midi mapping once for my MPK mini over USB, but once I enabled CC on the port I don’t remember having any problems. Then again, as I said I only used it once. If you can tell me what you were trying I’ll see if it’s buggy on Force as well.
Also, were you using 2.10.X or 2.11.x firmware?
TH-cam recommend your clip to me. It's interesting because I used to have a Force. But that machine was a bit too much for me and I sold it. Im currently using a polyend play. Absolutely perfect for my level and messing around in performance mode.
I’ll most likely have the play in the near future
Hi Liam - love your videos, would you consider doing a video on how you have mapped and set up your FF with your Digitakt? (and any of the issues and limitations with that set up)
Also - would you potentially be able to control BOTH a Digitakt and Digitone from the FF?
Something to consider for sure!
As for controlling both you can absolutely do that
I’ve decided on a combination of SP-404mk2 as an effects unit fed by the Polyend Play and the 1010Music Blackbox for stems and syncing all that. I’m using a DJ mixer with Elektron Heat at the end of the chain. I just got Stimming’s IMC but haven’t got my head around that yet to actually use it. The mixer is the 4 channel Model 1. I still think there is a way to capture loops or just play back loops from the SP404mk2 alongside its insert effects duties - but haven’t proved that out yet. I really like the Polyend Play. It’s a remarkable machine imo.
Can't wait to get my hands on the play!
And also, the MK2 is slowly but surely becoming the sampler of choice-especially with all of these new updates that they keep adding.
@@LiamKillen agreed. The other option for capturing loops on the fly for playback is the RC-505 mk2 which has a lot of features and good tactile interface. But it’s a bit complicated vs it’s mk1 version but has better sound. And more dedicated outputs. There is a small two channel version that might work too. But the more you add the more you have to learn, which is no bueno if you are on stage and have a brain fart and lose yourself and where you are at in your set. Thanks for your well considered videos. I enjoy them a lot.
FWIW I use an SP-555 (I retrofit a battery into it) with my MPC Live II so that I have loop functions and the filters/effects of the 404 over the USB audio compliant connection.
I use the old MPC models to sequence my outboard gear. Once I have it set up it does what it says on the tin. I've not used the new MPCs yet. To me they negate the need for outboard gear and TBH I want to use outboard gear and not plugins. I use either my MPC3000 or my MPC2000XL to control my Moog Sub37 and Korg Prologue. Anything else I have is sampled into the MPC. I prefer to keep it simple and that works for me. I only use a DAW like a tape machine to record multi-tracks
They’re very strong at controlling- not as strong at being controlled
@@LiamKillen That's what they were built for, controlling, Music (MIDI) Production Center. It's meant to be the brain. It can be controlled although I admit I've not used it that way and I don't use the new ones so I can't speak for them but so far I've been able to do what I want with my MPCs
very nice! do you ever plan on performing in toronto?
Nothing booked yet- I’m all honesty it might be a bit before I have an actual set prepped
Hi! Just came from Instagram to see your video. But if I use the MPC as a master clock and MIDI sequencer and sequence my TR-8s drums without using the TR internal sequencer, will I still have issues?
Yeah that should be fine although I haven’t tried it
I have a rig that is fairly spread out and I've gotten used to controlling it. But it took over a year. One thing is, don't try to have one brain. I use several sequencers from several machines. It seems the move to use one brain, but it never works for me. I sync them and run 4 or 5 at a time.
I’m going for a 2-3 machine set up for now but with bigger set ups yeah this is something I’ll consider
I was worried about the lack of screen, but if you can get over that, the Synthstrom Deluge is perfect. Haven't tried the MPC myself, but the Deluge is a lot more than just a DAW in a box, and I haven't missed having a screen at all. You'd have no issue mapping anything you wanted to all your knobs, and it also has easy built-in live looping.
Keep hearing amazing things about it
I second this. The deluge is just a no brainer.
Thanks for doing this video! Like many, I've been trying to figure or configure(ayyye) this out too. Really appreciate your effort here. Such a tough topic. I had an idea for you though. Maybe you could incorporate your live drumming skills and a loop pedal for help transitioning. Kinda like Reggie Watts gnome'sayin? Idk just a though 💭 good luck my gee
Yeah not sure how I’d do that 🤔 maybe with those sun house drum triggers
cool video!!👍 not easy to choose on my side I think to drop my Digitakt (more instinctive), I think to take the MPC One as the center of my little set up, by plugging small synthesizers into satellites and connecting them to an analog mixer with quality effects you can really experiment, I hope that behringer or another brand will release their series of mini synthesizers (like the Volcas) it can be cool of course if you use a mixer and real effects
Thank you for watching!
Yeah I’m the end it all depends on the set up 😊
Ableton isn’t that hard to learn. The stem track, trigger, looping functions you seek are solid and accessible in Ableton. I appreciate you pushing the envelope and documenting your DAWless journey! It’s good to see the -/+ in both worlds.
It needs to be documented! Hopefully it saves people time + energy.
Grateful for this as well
Idk. I kno ableton. There’s nothing extra if you know any other daw
@@LiamKillen The reason Ableton is so easy to learn is because everyone finds HIS way to use it and learns like that, then it's so flexible that changing his own ways is just a breeze.
I've put my hands in most DAWs and there is nothing like that really. Plus Elektron Overbridge with Ableton is just insane, if only AKAI had made such a great VST/plugin to integrate their products to DAWs...
Dawless is always better
Learning Ableton is essentially learning how to make your own live jam workflow exactly to your specs. You should still grab live 11 and a push2 and compare. Plus That faderfox would do serious damage in an ableton live set. Super envious of that one. ;)
I know you’re right but also DAWLESS is so fkn fun
@@LiamKillen indeed. I had an akai force for a few months and enjoyed making / prepping jams in the comfort of locations outside the studio.
Have you ever looked into the LMN-3 open-sourced DAW in a box? It's one of the most interesting community-sourced projects I've seen in a while and I feel like if it gains traction it'll change the market as the OP-1 did (LMN as in before OP?) Seems like it would compliment your performing setup 🙂
I’ll have a look! Thx for the suggestion 😊
Have you tried connecting the elektron to the akai through usb and run the setup with the elektron being an external USB interface for the mpc?
I have an akai force (basically a standalone bastard child of Ableton push+mpc) and I wish I had an elektron drum machine instead of my TR-8s. Elektron has class compliant usb audio so you can easily add effects to each channel on the digitalt IN ADDITION to everything that’s already on the force, which supports external usb class compliant audio interfaces. I added a TB3 to the mix to add variation to the basslines of the tb3 (underrated beast of a synth that can be unlocked with a third party software that allows you to manipulate parameters).
Yes that’s possible but it doesn’t eliminate menu diving on both instruments which is what I’m trying to pull off
Many years ago I got excited about using a DSI Tetra with Behringer BCR2000. It would have solved so many frustration with the lack of knobs and menu diving on the Tetra. Yah that was rude awakening. The Tetra flakes out when you send multiple midi messages at it.
Fkn gear eh?
Thanks so much for sharing your dawless journey. I've been really interested recently in putting together a minimalist, dawless live setup. I sort of landed on the MPC as the best option, because of its built-in sidechain (something that is surprisingly hard to find in other drum machines and samplers). But the MIDI bugs and occasional crashes are something to consider. I'd love to see more updates on your dawless setup!
There will def be more!
Wooah! What’s the mixer under the Digitakt?
Midi controller!
So far my only hope for constructing live sets is Digitakt’s song mode and a few other ideas. I haven’t started to learn the process of it’s song mode yet, but when I do decide to invest the time, I’m hoping it will provide the solution I need. It’s a shame about the limited sample memory on the TR-8s as I also own it my self. Plus I own the 6s too. Ironically I jive with the 6s more then the 8s, to the point that I’m thinking of buying a 2nd one and getting a Faderfox UC4 & PC4 to mix between them both. I’m not sure it’s gonna work, but I have a friend that just got a MC-707 and we are gonna try to construct a set with his MC and my TR. So I’m on the fence. My intuition leans to the 2 TR-6s combo I described. Not to mention the SP404MKii clocked to the TR-8s. Then theres Digitakt’s song mode whispering in my ear. I’m kinda struggling with the game plan lol. I’m confused and just have to experiment with what works best. Regardless I’ll figure it out eventually. Interesting video, after watching it I don’t feel so alone on the subject lol I hope a solution was found after this video was recorded.
Thank you for your addition! :-)
@@LiamKillen you welcome, and thanks for your videos. Tomorrow is my first jam practice with the new (MC707 & TR-8s) gear. You have been a lot of help 🙌🏼
Would be nice to see your progress in learning Ableton. I also want to give it a try!
Btw, I know that feeling. I'm a software developer. And each time I ask myself - do I really need to adopt this new technology or I can use what I already know? Even if I see that what I use won't fit well the new project requirements. But there is always a desire to stick what you better know accepting pain, glitches and fewer performance.
Yeah there’s a healthy balance there for sure
I ve spent countless hours in the last days to find "my" perfect dawless setup and my findings are regarding the brain:
If you just have 1-2 external midi devices, focus on samples and being on budget -> Circuit Tracks
If you have more midi devices and dont care about sampling -> Polyend Play
If you have more devices and also focus on sampling and sound modeling -> Digitakt
Other devices i checked but ditched: 404 MK2, Blackbox, Korg SQ64, Deluge, RK 008, MC 101, MC 707 and most likely 10 more.
Hope this is of some help for people searching... i even bought TH-cam Premium. Ads drove me crazy while researching ;-)
Thank you for this addition! :-)
Synthstrom Deluge my man
🍻
Have you tried AUM on iPad to sync with your MPC for live performance? If you want full reliability, then I think the Force might be a good addition since that one allows clip launching and both are made by AKAI
Kind of lost confidence in Akai for this sort of workflow TBH
AKAI FORCE - ABLETON LIVE - SP404MK2 !!!
Yahoooo!!!!
Did you look into Synthstrom Deluge? As far as capabilities it seems to be pretty close to MPC. Its a sampler, a sequencer, does MIDI and CV etc. No touch screen, not a Windows PC under the hood. I don't have one, but if I ever get sufficiently frustrated with my MPC, I would start looking that direction.
That’s one I need to look into!
Also the elektron boxes appear to be more stable than the MPC stuff but more limited (I do use a lot of Akai gear but not much electron stuff so my opinion is pretty much hearsay) I would like to see a video or two about your foray into this dilemma.
I have a “solution” video to this one coming up- although it’s more of a “next iteration”
You might have to try AKAI force for that Ableton-like workflow…
Lost confidence in akai for this type of midi cc / learn workflow
I have a small doubt because I just ordered (and received and it’s for Christmas in few days) a faderfox EC4 with the wish to use it basically same as the 16 encoders of the MPCX or similar.
I’ve just read about some solutions on MPC forums with deleting existing midi-learn folder .. did you try it?
I think I will have to do it prior to connect MPC and faderfox, because I don’t really want to directly go into frustration 😅
I gave up after the amount of walks I ran into I figured it didn’t make sense to try and push the unit to do something it’s not really able to do. I found that with each new solution came a new problem with the MPC one- for this approach specifically I mean.
@@LiamKillen ok thanks! I will give a try the next few weeks!
I design software for a living and you're not wrong, Ableton's user experience is overwhelming and it doesn't really get easier. No question about it, I want out too. Why not use the OP-Z as a master midi controller? I'm trying to build a dawless setup as well and I think it's the right kind of tool for that.
I don’t think op-z is reliable enough for what I’m trying to do
What do you think about the 1010 Blackbox as the "brain" of your studio? Say, coupled with the PC12? I see the 1010 advertised as a suitable control center, but I have doubts. Maybe due to its size? Fewer ports?
I’ve heard it’s amazing- haven’t really tried it though!
Ableton Live is great but I still prefer playing and watching dawless live sets. I used to have a complex Live set with loads of hardware synths prone to failing, but recently figured out that the best is to go modular with a compact eurorack suitcase. Usually all modules are compatible and pretty reliable. Of course that may not be for everyone and it is quite expensive (you need to have a strategy and objective from the get-go otherwise you can easily fall to GAS).
That said, the work that goes into preparing a live set just makes me prefer DJing. It is way less stressful.
Absolutely with you there!
Down the line I might go Ableton but for now I’m sticking to DAWLESS - I have some pretty dope gear
i love my mpc one, i dont really like the UI it feels dated compared to other devices that have more character in the UI if that make sense. nice yellow skin for the mpc where 2 cop? great vid btw
Thanks! Cop it over at style flip!
I have an mpc one and the looping from hardware and manipulating it live is so bad. I feel like it would be so easy to incorporate. I’m an ableton user for many years as well but I don’t want to use a computer live . I come from an indie rock and jazz background so I want to do a performance as an instrument if that makes sense
Yeah it's not strong at everything that's for sure .
and ableton is also very intuitive, super easy to grasp imo, and this is coming from someone who also knows logic
Yeah I’m sure it makes tons of sense
Great video. I wonder for myself “DAWless” is really that if I am still on screens but they are just smaller ones… like if the idea is that we stare at screen too much, then maybe we use stuff without screens, but if we need a screen, why do we use little ones?
Haha it’s really just what’s right for you lol
Ableton is baller, but I'm with you, trying to go dawless. My first choice was to do sets from Ableton like the guys from the minus label. I fiddled with it for YEARS.. One day someone handed me a crappy controller and I had a copy of tractor and BOOM, love at first touch.. I ended up playing in clubs and even a few other cities and Miami music week. Fast forward I'm not gigging since covid, and my dream of live performance is back up on me. I love elektron and they make some of the coolest and most mack daddy stuff.. however (clears throat).... I'm thinking akai force might be the way to go, especially since elektron boxes are really geared to minimal techno. Also, if you've been a part of setup and teardown, it's a total pain in the a$$. One box for your live set and leave everything else at home... Kind of magic. Just my 2 cents.
I've also seen that 2 of those m8 trackers with a small faderfox in the middle could be amazing too, just now I'd have to learn trackers.. good grief..
I’m struggling with just straight up dj ing my tunes lol
I never used Ableton but do use Logic (not expert by any means). I'd be curious to better understand what the Ableton Live Loops do better than the Logic Live Loops? Please educate me here!
I don’t know much about Ableton but Logic Live Looping isn’t actually meant for live looping. It’s geared towards making loops in Logic and then exporting them to the grid. It doesn’t track well at all which is why I dropped it right away
Is the Faderfox PC12 to MPC parameter mapping reliability any better these days?
Nope
Dude, just a thought from me. Try to use the ableton live on session view. Then use MPC One connection to ableton via ethernet cable so you can do ableton link, and you can control ableton with MPC One. There is a video about this on AKAI youtube channel.
MPC One also can still perform in standalone mode simultaniously with that system. Then the other 2 hardware can go straight to ableton. It would be awesome if the digitakt can going to the ableton with separate multi-output via USB. Don’t have it so I don’t know anything about it.
I really have same background with you, Logic Pro X user more than 10 years and just got MPC One December last year. Turns out after using MPC for half a year, ableton looks easier much much more familiar now, especially the session view workaround. I even half jokingly said to my friends, ableton is the grand grand son of MPC, and they have their own arrangement view as a progression from MPC, so it can be defined as a DAW hahaha.
But that sort of defeats of the purpose of not having a laptop on stage
@@LiamKillen yeah, but maybe you can give it a shot, just for fun.
What about your former setup of the Digitakt, TR6S, and Keystep 37?
Haven’t been there for a while.
I've been enjoying your vids. Really the setup to beat seems to be Ableton Live with a Push2 and/or other controllers. It is designed for live performances. It seems like it is the industry standard. You could check out Rachel K Collier on youtube - she has a great paid course on Ableton Live setup for live performances - she does exactly what you want to do with live looping. You could also check out any number of acts which feature on Cercle. There's almost always a macbook somewhere running Live.
Yeah she’s dope- thank you for pointing me in this direction!
Just an idea how about using an older Mpc 1000 with Jjos
I’m a little turned off by mpc + midi compatibility in general TBH
I’m really hoping they fix the mpc midi input in the next update.
I want to go less daw rather than dawless, but not being able to easily mess with filters or levels really stops me being able to do that.
Honestly it bothers me they didn’t fix it this one 🤷♂️
@@LiamKillen fingers crossed for 2.12
What gear is used to make that track at 9:30?
I can’t remember exactly but probably DAW / MPC / digitakt
@@LiamKillen nice. Sounds good
If you have an iPad have you thought about going the ios route? Or do you consider that using a daw as well? I find the tactile feel of ios music making apps combined with some daw conveniences to be a satisfying and intuitive experience. iPad + midi controller(s) + audio interface for external gear covers a lot of ground and is very flexible imo. I’m not a performer though so I might be missing something.
I haven’t wrapped my head around touching an I pad screen during a live set…yet
@@LiamKillen I think the PC-12 might work with the iPad..?
Have you looked at the Synthstrom Deluge? It's an incredible performance machine, super tactile, direct and powerful.
I believe it would be a great solution for what you are looking for
Novation is a company I haven’t explored at all
Def interested though
@@LiamKillen Would recommended this video as an example, this reminded me of what you where trying to get to: th-cam.com/video/LypQg0OJJ7Q/w-d-xo.html
Very easy to assign midi inputs to different parameters on the Deluge like track volume, filter, anything you want really.
And on the Deluge itself you already a lot of direct controls for performance
@@LiamKillen or this comprehensive walkthrough from Red Means Recording on how he prepared a performance on the Deluge: th-cam.com/video/l7zjKQkY5iw/w-d-xo.html
@Liam Killen the Deluge is not a Novation product, it's from Synthstrom Audible. And I agree with the others, it's an amazing instrument and more than likely a solution to your challenges. My biggest issue with the Deluge is it cured a lot of my GAS. Every time I get excited about new piece of kit, I soon realise my Deluge already has those features and does it better. BTW, it's known for it's powerful live looping implementation.
MPC Workflow today: fixing bugs.
😂
Interested in your pc12 work, could you do a more full depth tutorials on it? How to change from ableton script to generic controller? Manual doesnt contemplate all the options in the controller. Thabk you
Something to consider for sure! Thx for watching :-)
@@LiamKillen amazing, thanks, looking forward for it. It is a great controller, but initially bit overwelming for a daw workflow type guy.
You are probably aware of the Dawless Jammer TH-camr. What she does is just DJ her produced tracks and adds live effects on them using Roland 404. I would love to see you play some live drums with recorded stuff. The New York band Japanther does that really well
I think you might mean Lol bad snacks?
Anything is possible at this point! Thank you for watching.
I thought I was the only one having problems with the midi. I have an novation xlcontrol as midi. Always buggy with the mpc. I thought I had a broken mpc so in a way I'm happy 🤷♂️😅
It’s disappointing
Well as an update based on some previous comments. I finally received an MPC One and alas issues on day 1-can’t update firmware no matter the method because it will not recognize that the device is plugged in. When attempting to update via the thumb drive, it will just error saying the file has a problem. Tried countless firmware versions, different thumb drives, different usb cables. Nothing works. I’m stuck on 2.9 firmware it seems eternally.
Hmmm…not sure what the issue there is but I’m sure there’s a way around that
@@LiamKillen What can ya do man. It was a refurbished "B-stock New" that I purchased from a seller on Reverb. I believe the seller actually is InMusic--a direct distributor. This is actually a documented issue with some of the MPC Ones and it has something to do with the PCB carrier board and/or grounding/electrical issue. It's under warranty, so I think the best bet is to send it in for repair or replacement...but, kind of a bummer.
I’m totally down with the Octatrack, but it has it’s own idiosyncrasies. By default CC Controls affect both internal + External events which frustrated the hell outta me until I figured out how to change that. The Octa has a serious learning curve though, but stick with it and it’s worth it.
Just got it 😏 about to dive in
@@LiamKillen see, and I just picked up my MPC Live ;)
Ricky Tinez’s videos on the Octa have taught me so much - well worth checking out!
Liam,
I think you just need to look into refreshing your MPC’s firmware.
Sweetwater did a video on the touring keyboard rig for The War on Drugs, and he has an MPC triggered by midi for their tour.
So you should definitely be able to rely on the MPC, and something just needs to be solved.
I’m sure if you reach out to Akai, you could really sus out the issue.
If a huge touring band relies on an MPC for live gigs, then you should too.
Silver Rabbit,
I appreciate you reaching out.
I’ll look into his set up. I’m assuming he’s either using an akai controller or is triggering in a basic + simple way.
For me the issue came about when I tried to midi control several FX / bus which I’d have full control over in a live setting- It was beyond buggy when I stacked FX even with update 2.11 - not sure what else to say 🤷♂️
I did all the research I could and across the board people confirmed it’s not reliable for this sort of workflow.
Silver Rabbit,
I just checked it out- yeah he’s controlling volume with a sustain pedal and triggering samples on the MPC which is a very straight forward set up- I’d hope he didn’t run into any issues with that!
@@LiamKillen Oh, I see what you mean now. As soon as i saw that video I immediatly thought of you. Good luck building your rig.
remember, youre walking the same path as the greats when trying to perform and being limited by your gear.
Have you considered the force instead since it’s interface is clip and scene based?
lost confidence in akai for this sort of workflow. I can see now that they're geared more towards being a DAW/studio tool and not so much for live performance- especially after this.
@@LiamKillen damn I was hoping they would be able to bridge that gap between daw and live performance workflow. I just got a force and have been searching for the type of workflow that lets you loop things on the fly and act as a brains for other instruments as well
Analog kitchen has some good videos using mpc as a hardware sequencer
Works great as a master- not so much when you tell IT what to do
It’s a narcissist
@@LiamKillen as it should be!
I run the MPC One and MC-707 next to each other, I really like that setup. You can offload a lot of audio processing into the MC-707 and reduce the load on the MPC. Plus sliders :)
Yeah that does sound killer actually…
Aa of today what would you say is the closest machine to Ableton?
there's nothing quite like it but the SP-404 mk2 with the latest update is a step closer in that direction. Here's a video actually; th-cam.com/video/lt3qH6IR-28/w-d-xo.html
@@LiamKillen cheers!
the akai force would be a perfect candidate for you if youre trying to get into ableton style live looping
still dawless and the same vibe its my main setup and I looooove it
Noted although not sure I trust akai for what I’m trying to do anymore
@@LiamKillen i will say midi learn is a bit frustrating but the 8 knobs can be very expressive in combo with the touch screen, the more standalone I get with it the more together the set feels
Reading the comments here and I'm like: Recommending hardware & software primarily used for music production as tools for live performance is absolutely ridiculous.
Serato DJ Pro or Algoriddim's Neural Mix attached to Reloop's Mixon 8 Pro is an option you should check out. Neural Mix should be easier to learn than Ableton. And the Mixon 8 Pro has all the hardware control you need and that frees your other gear like Elektron, Akai, Roland boxes, etc. to do what they do best while you're performing on stage.
I’ll consider all of this- thanks
@@LiamKillen I should add this to my comment since you don't want to learn/use Ableton or have a computer as part of your live setup, check out Eelke Kleijn's live setup: th-cam.com/video/7yn-b5wdSIU/w-d-xo.html
DJ TechTools has other people showing their live setups...and that could spark some ideas with what you want to do.
I've got the faderfox. Those pots never did it for me. Ended up getting a trio of midi fighter twisters with endless encoders and never looked back. I've still got the PC-12 though, can't bring myself to let it go.
The one with faders is great too