I just did this conversion following your steps. Worked out great! Just had to mess with the tuning and make sure my battery was charged up. Ran 1/2" hose 25 ft but haven't load tested it for performance yet. Just wanted to thank you for the great instructions!
After reading many of the comments, especially about trying to run NG directly rather than through the outboard regulator, I'll share some thoughts about that regulator. While it functions like a common pressure regulator, in service it's more like a flow regulator that's based on demand. In a typical regulator like the ones you might find on your gas grill, the regulator is there strictly to manage downstream pressure. Between that and each burner you have a valve to regulate the gas flow to individual burners. Each valve depends on having a constant upstream gas pressure so one burner doesn't change as flow to other burners' flow is changed. The regulator needed for the NG conversion is similar, but has a downstream pressure 'setpoint' that's slightly lower than atmospheric pressure. It's trying to maintain a slight 'vacuum' if you will. The outlet port senses the engine drawing on it while running, and opens to maintain that target 'vacuum' level by adding more NG as the engine asks for more air/fuel with load demand increase. With engine stopped, the regulator senses that outlet pressure is too high (above its slight-vacuum target pressure) and stops adding NG. Absent that level of flow management, a 'normal' regulator with a target out pressure slightly higher than atmospheric as the propane regulators do, would open instead and try to add more NG to bring the engine inlet pressure up. That situation happens when the engine isn't running. Bottom line though is that you MUST have something that shuts off NG flow when the engine isn't running. Using the regulator adds some self-adjustment to fuel flow as load and RPM's change in running service, something a solenoid valve won't. The gory details: On this generator's propane side, there's a solenoid-operated shutoff valve. It's open when the engine is running, closed on not running. If the engine is off or, more critically, if it stalls, that solenoid valve closes and blocks propane flow to the engine inlet. The actual flow metering is dependent on the size of a Venturi tube in the engine inlet. There's some flow physics involved to get the correct propane flow through that nozzle. Since the supply gas density and the ideal fuel/air ratios between the two gasses are different, a Venturi and flow restriction sized for one gas won't translate well for the other. In some ideal configuration, a separate larger venturi nozzle would be installed just for the NG fuel. Whether you used a separate flow regulator or not would be a choice that would include having a solenoid-operated shutoff valve for fuel flow, function similar to how the existing propane solenoid functions. Assuming sufficient supply sizing to maintain relatively constant inlet NG pressure through that second valve to the nozzle, it would run in load-sensitive mode quite nicely. This particular generator is an inverter type, so the throttle is RPM controlled based on load demand. More demand, more throttle and some more RPM's. In classic generators, a throttle governor is set for a constant 3600 RPM to maintain 60hz AC output frequency. The throttle is adjusted continuously to maintain that constant RPM. Using the Venturi nozzle for propane solves a large part of the fuel flow and mixture management while 'solving' for both RPM and load variations with the inverter. Adding another larger Venturi tube requires a larger and longer section of inlet piping if two are in the same piping. For compact/portable generators like this, there really isn't enough room to extend that pipe between the carburetor throttle and the two separated Venturis without having the carburetor throttle and air cleaner outside the casing. Instead of that second precise Venturi doing the flow and mixture control for us, we depend on that large regulator to vary the pressure upstream of the engine inlet, and include that adjustable bolt for fine-tuning single-point/load fuel flow management. Not ideal, but it seems to sort-of work OK. For longer-term flow management, I'd probably replace tune-by-ear with periodic inspections of spark plug color, after some run time in a typical use period. Finally, the look-see down behind the controls in the video shows the limit switch on the fuel-selector knob as a too-common microswitch. In a situation where there's a somewhat reasonable chance of having gas fumes I'd be looking for something that's just bit closer to 'intrinsically safe'. Portable generators aren't subject to the same rules for electrical components as fixed stations, and of course they are sold to a market price point, so such things are forgotten by cost managers. As we do our conversions and think about not having a hard and specific fuel shutoff on engine not running, think about those relatively open switches and the size of the fireball.
I did the conversion on my Firman WH03242. Replaced the existing 1/4" propane quick connect adapter on the generator with a 3/8" NG quick connect adapter connected thru the existing hole with a brass bulkhead fitting. Had to drill out the inside and outside holes on the generator by about 1/8" to get the new fittings to work. Used 3/8" barbed fitting on the back of the bulkhead adapter. Needed to cut the hose a bit and heat it up to fit on the barbed fitting. Replaced the quick connect adapter on the existing regulator/hose that came with the gen to NG quick connect so that I could swap back and forth between NG and LPG. This does require two separate regulators/hoses to be stored! Everything worked absolutely perfect until I did the load test. Could push the unit to over 3000 watts on LPG but only get to about 2000 watts on NG. Zero obstructions in everything I did. Decided to look at the carburetor. The hose going to the carb is definitely large enough. Issue is the brass pipe connecting the carb to the hose. Its inlet is very small. Like 3/16" or less. That is way too small for NG to run at full power. I am wondering if they changed carbs between our unit builds. Like I said, I am able to get about 2000 watts perfect but pushing any further it starts bogging down. Happy with the conversion but I wasted a ton of time for no gain. For anybody looking to do this conversion, recommend taking gas tank out, removing hose from carb and examine the inside diameter of the brass fitting coming out of the carb. If something like 3/16" or less, just connect to the generator using the propane quick connect.
I'd be a bit surprised (not terribly surprised) if they changed the inlet to the carburetor. Is there any chance that you forgot to remove the air inlet plugs on the natural-gas low-pressure regulator? (I forgot to remove those plugs twice, and it didn't run well.) Did you try running it without a natural-gas low-pressure regulator?
I wouldn’t be able to run it without the regulator as I couldn’t get it started. I did remove the plugs. That I did find out about the first time I played with it. The NG regulator works perfect on my ryobi that I had installed an aftermarket carb that supported trifuel. I should have taken a picture of the carb inlet. It is seriously small compared to the hose that connects to it. Talk about being disappointed…. Thank you though for your great video.
@@dannyjones6251: I'm not sure if it would help, but it could be that your low-pressure regulator is set to be too restrictive. Apparently, they are not all set identically. You might want to watch the following video from "Vlad F K" about how to adjust a Garretson low pressure regulator. (Remove the locking screw above the gas inlet, and then tweak the adjustment screw.) I didn't need to do this. th-cam.com/video/d8A-k-TUnwg/w-d-xo.html
@@CharledKimble: I explained that in my video. On natural gas my Firman WHO3242 generator runs smoothly up to at least 2650W (and 3000W on LPG). Dannyjones6251 commented above that he was only getting 2000W on natural gas.
Well, this is exactly what I was looking for to use my WH03242 with NG. Idk why TH-cam didn't show me this video in the results when I was looking but thankfully someone else linked it and it looks like everything I would need to do this is covered in the video so thanks for putting this together.
I'm happy that you found my video and disappointed that it didn't show up on your TH-cam search. I added every relevant keyword that I could think of so that it would be searchable. May I ask where you saw the link? (Maybe I should post links on some relevant forums or product reviews.) I hope my video helps you. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!
Wow extremely detailed and super helpful video. Post Hurricane Beryl, I realized that running off natural gas is almost a necessity because fuel and propane was scarce around my area. I ended up returning my unit because there's not enough power to run my window ac unit, refrigerator, lights, modem/router, and computers. My friend has this generator though and I forwarded your video to him.
There are lots of tri-fuel generators, but unfortunately no compact ones. I guess that the generator manufacturers assume that people with natural-gas-fed houses have enough space for big generators.
Very nice instruction to modify for Trifuel. I have a ng whole-house Generac and a Gas/Propane portable for backup but being that Generacs are unreliable, wanted a backup solution. I noticed several manufacturers have just released trifuel inverter gennys but they are expensive and currently only offering the larger sizes so this is a great alternate smaller gen solution.
I mocked up the same thing on a champion 4250 dual fuel open frame inverter generator (model 200914). This was for testing so I went ultra budget at the expense of ease of use - no quick disconnects, extra line, splitters, ect... I opted for 20ft of 1/2 gas line 2x female flare (South Bend brand) and a regulator from "Mikatesi" store on Amazon which came with the loadblock and some barb fittings. After that I only required the 3/4 MIP to 1/2 male flare adapter. Like your set up, there is no permanent modification to the generator. The 4250 comes with internal 3/8" propane line so I disconnected the hose via the access cutout in the control panel then just ran it directly to the knock off Amazon regulator's loadblock barb. I connected it to an old 1/2" gas dryer line in the basement and ran it out the window. This was because it provided the easiest access and I didn't want to wrench on my very dated gas meter. It's definitely on the butt end of my house's nat gas line - not ideal. In quick testing it happily managed 2210 watts in eco mode. I didn't have anything readily available to properly ramp up the load so I turned off eco and threw on a 3125 load - it sputtered to an unrecoverable stop despite killing the load early - not surprising. Started right back up without issue. The results were encouraging enough that I'm going to put the effort and expense into testing/refining the set up. Originally I was going to modify my Honda eu3000, however I caught a really good deal on Amazon for the Champion ($325). For $325 generator + $120 in conversion parts I'm in the same ballpark as what it would've cost to convert the Honda, but I have a spare generator and I'm not modifying a $2k machine... For anyone on a tight budget, wait for the Firman refurb sales on Ebay + coupons or Champion deals on Amazon (Prime Day?). If you want to deviate from these specific generator models (Firman WHO3242 or Champion 200914), look up the parts diagram for whatever model you have in mind and see if their propane hose diameter is 3/8" (good) and if there's an internal gas regulator (less ideal) or external detachable regulator (good). Thanks for the inspiration, Dave!
Interesting information! Thanks for sharing! Happy to hear that my video helped! Yeah... as you probably saw at 23:09 in my video... Just like your experience, when I added a large incremental load (rather than smaller, incremental loads) that pushed my generator somewhat near its limit, it also caused my generator to stall unrecoverably-- even though I quickly removed the load while the engine was still struggling. At $325, you got a heck of a deal on that Champion 200914 (currently ~$600 on Amazon). Let's hope that our efforts were all for naught and we'll never need to use our generators!
Awesome vid . I ordered an ai power 7100 today and I want to add NG capability to it. Hopefully it’ll be a similar set up. Thanks again for the detailed information.
This generator is currently on sale @Costco for 650 online or 599 in store till the end of March 2024.. Got one yesterday and it started right up on Propane. It now ships with a 3/8" quick connect so it's an easy conversion to add Natural Gas with a low pressure regulator like in the video.
@@DaveRaveVideo Well scratch that Dave. There is a part number on the chassis mount quick connect of XQ14 which crosses to be 1/4". My confusion is that the supplied connector on the Firman regulator is bigger than my standard 1/4" connections I have around here. That's a weird connector.
@@tramonson Bummer. The male & female 1/4" quick-connects on mine seem to be standard, because they work with other 1/4" quick connector components that I bought on Amazon. However, at 8:46 in my video I mention that I bought a 1/4" quick-connect kit at Ace Hardware that would not mate with the generator. I assumed that the Ace kit was non-standard, but maybe it's a difference between a US standard and metric standard?
Did you consider just changing the propane quick connect to a 3/8"? Maybe not as easily replaceable but would avoid the coiled hose. You would also need another adapter to use the supplied propane supply hose, but that's it, 2 adapters. And the on demand NG Century kit of course.
At 9:14 in my video I said that I wanted to replace the 1/4" female quick-connect with a 3/8" quick-connect but, (1) I couldn't find a 3/8" quick-connect that had a threaded end that it could be mounted to the internal bracket, and (2) I couldn't find one that was thin enough in diameter to fit into the hole where the 1/4" quick-connect resides. (I didn't want to enlarge that hole and void the warranty.) If you find one please let me know. That would be a much nicer solution. It wouldn't be too difficult to adapt the propane output fitting and there are extension-cables available for the propane solenoid cable.
Holy smokes! This video could not have had better timing for me! We had a massive storm blow through Houston just now that knocked out The power on something like 900,000 homes. At about 8:00 p.m. I finally pulled my same generator out of the box in the dark and by cell phone flashlight added the oil and finally figured out how to fire it up. I had to cut off one of my 20 amp capable extension cords in order to backfeed that into my electrical panel. Of course I was not fully prepared with a list of breakers to feed my refrigerators so I struggled for 2 hours trying to figure out which breakers would feed the refrigerators to no avail. I have no idea what the hell is going on but I was able to trigger one of the GFI outlets in the kitchen so I just plugged in a couple extension cords internally in the house to power the refrigerators until tomorrow morning. I have a couple 30 lb propane tanks and three 20 lb tanks but it doesn't make any sense to do that since I have natural gas right at my grill like you do. So thankful for you and you taking the time to put together this extremely competent video for the rest of us who don't understand how to convert something like this. Amazing job sir and thank you for the bottom of our hearts in our home in Houston! I will use your links purchase the items that you listed.
The damage from that Houston storm made the national news this morning. I hope your power outage is brief. But if it's not, I hope that you're able to get the needed parts quickly or at least refill your propane tanks. Good luck! FYI: I did not want to go through the hassle & expense (including permitting and building inspection) of adding a generator interlock switch to my circuit breaker box-- especially for such a low-power generator. So I bought some extension cords & power strips (and 2 shore-power inlets) that I can use to bring electricity into the house and power some essential items like my refrigerator, gas-furnace, router, gas-range, Internet modem & desks/PCs, garage-door opener, LED string-lights, TV, etc. Just in case I'm away from home (but my wife & kids are home) during a power outage, I also added extension cords for difficult-to-move-or-reach appliances (fridge, range & garage-door-opener) such that the extension cord & appliance-plugs discretely emerge from behind the appliance, thereby enabling those appliances to be easily unplugged from the house-power and plugged into the extension cords from the generator, without moving the appliances from their cubbyholes. I also added a generator transfer switch to my gas-furnace so that it can easily be connected to the generator. www.amazon.com/Veepeak-Flanged-Waterproof-Trailer-Straight/dp/B0B87MNXLF www.amazon.com/BOYISEN-Generator-Transfer-Switch-Certificated/dp/B0BW91KN19
@@reese2694: Yes. An interlock is required by code to prevent back-feeding that could injure or kill repair crews. It also prevents damage to the generator from front-feeding (when the power returns). It would be illegal, but I think that both of those problems could be avoided if the incoming power supply to the panel is cut-off, but people forget to do that, which is why the interlock is required by code.
Dave, It is getting difficult to find propane in Houston and they are estimating we have another four or five days without power in my particular area. I absolutely hate cleaning carburetors out after using gas. Do you happen to know if I use regular unleaded gas in the generator to get through this event, am I then able to just run the generator for an hour or something like that on propane or natural gas to then completely clear the carburetor and the bowl out from having any regular gasoline remaining? My goal is just to not have to drain and clear that carburetor the old fashioned way if these systems are set up to work like that?
@@AndTodaysProjectIs: Thanks for confirming my concern that propane could become scarce in a major power outage. I don't know if running the generator dry of gasoline, and then running it on propane would clear all of the gasoline from the carburetor. It's an interesting idea, but I just don't know how the dual-fuel carburetor is set up. If switching to propane simply cuts of the gasoline-flow and if the propane simply feeds into the carburetor's gasoline bowl, then we might expect the propane flow to evaporate any remaining gasoline from the gasoline bowl (and its sediment pit), float, jets, throttle, etc. But I just don't know. If you find out, please let us know. Good luck!
So wait...your generator's 1/4" LPG inlet actually has a 3/8" barb on the back? And all 3/8" gas lines to the carb? That's extremely fortunate. My Champion has all 1/4" gas lines to the carb, which I guess means I need to find another option. But outstanding video, and it still helped me navigate options.
Yes. Fortunately, on the Firman WHO3242 generator, the backside of the 1/4" propane quick-connect is a 3/8" barb, with a 3/8" hose feeding the carburetor. Not sure why Firman didn't use 1/4" hose, but I'm glad that they didn't. Since tri-fuel generators have natural-gas wattage ratings that are about 81% of their propane wattage ratings, if your Champion generator is rated for less than ~2,250W on propane, then 1/4" line is probably good enough supply it enough natural gas for (0.81 x 2250W=) ~1800W. My generator ran nicely on natural gas through the propane quick-connect up to ~1800W so I'm guessing that's the power limit of 1/4" hose.
@@DaveRaveVideo That's an excellent point. Thank you! My Champion 2500 is indeed small, with propane running watts = 1665W. Thus it should be capable of approx. 1350W with natural gas (0.81 x 1665W). Enough to run my fridge and a few lights. And the Champion's engine is 97cc, which is half the size of the WHO3242 engine. So I'll bet that you're right, and that the 1/4" propane inlet and internal lines won't be a bottleneck on performance with natural gas at this low level of power. I'm going to give it a shot and load test it. Thank you again!
@@noads6566: Yep. I GUESS she'll run up to her natural-gas power-limit (~1350W) without being bottlenecked by the 1/4" line. I (and perhaps others) would be very interested to hear your results. Good luck!
@jotunofficial Yes, I bought a natural gas regulator and all the fittings and hose to connect to my Champion dual fuel 2500. I tested it with variable-power heat gun and measured the watts drawn with a kill-a-watt. It ran fine up to around 1500-1600W. I didn't run it at that level for too long, but I'm comfortable that it'll run a fridge plus some lights just fine on nat gas.
Thanks for your efforts. Your numerous side experiments were interesting and show you have an inquiring mind. Am I correct in thinking that if a person is satisfied with 1800 Watts output, then using a 1/4 inch male quick connect natural gas hose connecter to the female generator quick connect orifice (rather than the Y hose addition) should be OK all else being the same?
IMHO, yes. If you're satisfied with ~1800W, then you can just run natural gas (NG) through a low-pressure regulator (for safety) to the built-in 1/4" propane quick-connect. Alternatively, you could probably just remove the 1st stage, metal propane regulator (that is connected outside-the-blue propane regulator) and directly connect gas into the second stage of the blue propane regulator. According to my notes... AFTER (not before) the engine warmed up really well, I was able to run it up to 1900W with it sounding pretty good. Above 1960W, it really started to bog down sounding unhealthy, and bordering on stalling. Once it started to falter into a stall, it usually would not return to running smoothly-- even if the entire electrical load was removed. (Not sure why. I guess it has something to do with the engine's computer not being programmed to deal with natural gas and getting "confused".) So if I were going that route, I'd target running it at 1800W or less. I seriously considered going the propane-quick-connect route instead of teeing-in a 3/8" NG line because 1800W is enough to run my refrigerator (370W), furnace (425W), Internet modem & router (~29W), a few laptop PCs (25W each), monitors (~27W each), a desktop PC (~200W-500W), gas range (2W) and some LED light strings. But as a rule of thumb, motor-startup surge is typically about double the running wattage, and so my fridge motor probably surges to 740W on startup, my gas furnace probably surges to 850W, and my electric garage-door-opener (445W) probably surges to 890W. So I was concerned that a startup-surge could stall the generator. I was also concerned that I wouldn't have much headroom to run "less-essential" electronics like a big-screen TV (170W) & coffee maker (1100W). So I decided to go through a bit more effort and cost to get it to run at a sustained 2430W (with an occasional surge up to 2650W being OK). If you go the propane-quick-connect route, please make sure that you buy a male 1/4" quick-connect that has a relatively thin rim as I showed in the video. The first one that I bought at Ace, didn't mate with the generator's female connector, but I THINK that's because it was non-standard. Not sure. Most of the ones that I see on Amazon, SEEM to compatible based on the photos. Good luck!
You are so helpful🙂. Thanks a lot. BTW I sent a message to Firman suggesting they consider making a natural gas harness optional or standard with the generator (because it would be popular and profitable). There are a lot of power outages worldwide these days and this easily stored /powerful generator would fill a niche.
@@alexbaskous3603 Yeah... It's unfortunate that there are no compact tri-fuel generators from ANY manufacturer. I guess they all figure that anybody with a natural-gas powered house has plenty of space for a big open-frame tri-fuel generator. They probably figure that compact generators are primarily used for RVs & camping. It wouldn't surprise me if they are correct that the market niche for compact tri-fuel generators is too small to address.
Maybe, but their low price and unique natural gas addition might give them an edge on the competition for “small generators. BTW I’ve been impressed with a friction lowering product called “Tufoil” used by the US military to prolong engine life. You might want to look it up. Thanks again.
IIRC, the pop-pop sound only occurred when it was IDLING too rich (not when it was running with a load). I don't know how many turns it took on the load block but I started with the load-block wide-open and then (with a full load attached) I screwed-in the load-block bolt until the engine just started to bog down from lack of fuel. At that point, I unscrewed it about a 1/4 turn (until the engine ran smoothy again). Fortunately, when I removed the load, it idled smoothly without the pop-pop sound. Is that what you did? Is it making the pop-pop sound only when idling, or also under load?
@@daveriola163 combination of both. I was able to get the unit started fairly easy and although the popping is less under load, I can still hear it a bit. i was able to run 2 hair dryers on low for about 2500W but unit will not run one on high at 1800W on NG.
@@ArturoPalaciosJr : Hmmm... Are you using a Garretson-Impco style low-pressure regulator? Did you screw in the bolt until the engine bogged down and then just barely back-out the bolt? Is the generator the Firman WHO3242 (not that it should matter).
excellent video. can you please specify the parts you used for the restriction block (3/8) that is in the output of the regulator? the link you sent to amazon is different , and have a low rating, as people claim it leaks. also, it takes 2 weeks to get it. thanks.
Thanks! The "Nash Fuel" brand Hose Block Power Valve linked above (3/8" NPT x 3/8" barbed) is the correct part. It was 2-day Prime shipping when I bought it, but now it seems to be 1-2 weeks on Amazon. Nash Fuel also sells it directly from their website. The price is a bit higher including shipping, but their website currently says "3-4 days". (I'm not sure if that means arrival time.) Nash Fuel also sells it on Ebay but the shipping time is 2-3 weeks. Currently, it has a 4-star rating on Amazon (with 29 ratings). Currently 2 of the 3 written reviews are bad but I think that those 2 reviewers are probably trying to use it for a different application, because they complain of gas leaking. In this application, the engine is sucking fuel from the regulator so the hose block power valve doesn't leak gas out. If anything, it leaks a bit of air into the fuel that's getting sucked into the engine.
@@DaveRaveVideo thank you for the quick response. as i looked at the part that is in your video, it looks different than the "off the shelf" Nash fuel part in amazon. yours has adaptor between the Tee and the regulator. they must have changed this . thank you!
Yes. I would prefer to do that. But as I mention in the video at 9:15, I couldn't find an EXTERNALLY THREADED 3/8" quick-connector that could be attached to the existing bracket (with a nut), nor could I find one that is slim enough to fit through the front-panel hole. (I don't want to void the warranty by widening the hole.) Starting at 9:15 I showed several photos of the removed 1/4" quick-connector alongside a ruler and a caliper, just in case anyone wants to search for a suitable 3/8" replacement. (I should have clarified that in my video.) If you find a suitable 3/8" replacement, please let me know! If I could find and install a suitable 3/8" female quick-connector, I'd also try to adapt the Firman propane regulator's 1/4" male-quick-connect output to be a 3/8" male-quick-connect so that I could run on either natural gas or propane through the same female 3/8" quick-connector. If I did that, then the regulator's barrel electrical plug would likely need to be extended, but those extension cords are easily, cheaply available online. I'm pretty sure that the barrel connector is 5.5mm O.D x 2.1mm I.D plug, but it could be 2.5mm I.D. (It's hard to measure.)
I can't speak from personal experience but the widely used formula for this class of generator is: Gallons-of-propane-used per hour=Watts-used/3000×0.65. If by "50%" you mean 1500W, then the generator should use about (1500/3000x0.65=) 0.325 gallons/hour. Considering that "5-gallon" propane tanks really only hold about 4.75 gallons IF YOU HAVE THEM FILLED AT A FILLING STATION*, then that would be about (4.75 gallons/0.325 gallons/hour=) 14-hours per tank. This calculation jibes with the reviews that I watched & read about the WHO3242, wherein reviewers talked about how long a 5-gallon (20 lb) tank lasted in their real-world usage. If you gain better real-world knowledge, please let me know. *If you don't have your 5-gallon tanks filled at a filling station, and you instead do tank-exchanges like Blue Rhino or Amerigas, then the exchange tanks will only contain 3.5 gallons (15 lbs) of propane. In the calculation above, that would be 10.7 hours per tank.
After viewing untold TH-cam "Generators to Propane and NG kits"; I now believe that there is NO reason; to use a Regulator when using NG. Just connect it to the inlet* of the Carburetor. Yes, you DO need the Regulator when using Propane Gas. * you may need to use the "Y", but that is the only item you need when using NG. For what it's worth. Thank you kind Sir.
Carburetors are not leak-proof valves. So if you don't use a low pressure regulator, then natural gas will leak out of the carburetor when the engine is off. When I tried making a direct-connection to the carburetor I could smell the natural gas leaking out of the carburetor. The same is true of propane unless you have a normally-closed engine-activated solenoid valve (like the blue one that is included with the Firman generator). Also, if you don't use a low-pressure regulator (and a properly tuned hose-block-power-valve) you will essentially force-feed too much fuel to the engine, likely causing carbon build-up and reducing engine longevity. I tried direct connections with propane (without a solenoid valve) and natural gas (without a low-pressure regulator). The engine will run but it's dangerous, bad for the environment, and bad for the engine's longevity.
@@DaveRaveVideoMy natural gas manifold already has a low pressure regulator hooked up to it. If I tee in-I am assuming I am getting the lower downstream pressure from that. I know my main comes in at 2psi. Do appliances (stove, dryer, water heater) typically have a built in regulators, which i am assuming runs at .5psi or less?
@@jamahster I'm not sure what you mean by your "natural gas manifold" and I can't think of a reason why there would be a "low pressure regulator" downstream of your meter. So I'm guessing that by "low pressure regulator", you mean the service regulator at your gas meter. That is not a "low pressure regulator" like the Garrettson-Impco style regulator that I used in my video. From what I've read, natural gas from the street to your meter is typically ~2psi - 60 psi. The service regulator at your meter lowers that pressure to about 0.25 psi for your appliances to use. Natural gas appliances don't need pressure-regulators to further decrease the pressure below 0.25 psi because they were designed to work at 0.25 psi. Therefore gas appliances typically just have valves-- either (1) adjustable-valves that control the flame-height of appliances like stove-tops, or (2) on/off valves for appliances like water-heaters or furnaces where there's no need to adjust the flame-height. Low-pressure regulators take the pressure from 0.25 psi to 0 psi (or actually to something like MINUS 0.125 psi). Low-pressure regulators only allow gas to flow from their output if there is a vacuum on the output (i.e. gas is being sucked from the output). In this case, the low pressure regulator only allows gas to flow when the generator's engine spins and sucks air/fuel into the carburetor. Carburetors aren't like valve-controlled gas appliances. They don't get a force-fed fuel/air mixture from a valve. Carburetors suck in fuel/air. There is no leak-proof valve on a carburetor like there is on a stove-top burner. So if you don't use a low-pressure regulator, the natural gas (at 0.25 psi) will leak out of the carburetor when the engine is not spinning.
If you have a ng bbq hook up is that low enough ? Or still need low psi regulator Mine came with what I thought was a low pressure manufoukd for the propane attachment Can one use that ? Thx @@DaveRaveVideo
@@swormser865 A bbq hookup is not low enough pressure. It's the same pressure (~0.25 psi) as every other gas outlet in you house. If you don't attach a low-pressure regulator (as I did in the video for my bbq outlet) then natural gas will leak out of the engine's carburetor because (unlike a bbq's adjustable burner-valve) carburetors are not leak-proof valves. The low-pressure regulator reduces the pressure to 0 psi (or less). It will only allow gas to flow if the spinning engine sucks in the gas. Firman's included propane regulator is designed to regulate much-higher propane-tank pressures. It also has a solenoid that prevents propane-flow unless its electrical connector is attached to the generator. This prevents propane flow from leaking out of the carburetor unless the engine is spinning (as mentioned above). It is possible to use an adapter to connect natural gas to the inlet of that the propane regulator, but the natural gas flow would be restricted by the the 1/4" hose and quick-connect, and so you'd only be able to run the generator at about 1800W (because natural gas has lower energy-density than propane and therefore requires a 3/8" hose & connector).
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I just did this conversion following your steps. Worked out great! Just had to mess with the tuning and make sure my battery was charged up. Ran 1/2" hose 25 ft but haven't load tested it for performance yet. Just wanted to thank you for the great instructions!
Happy to read that my video helped somebody! Thanks for letting me know!
After reading many of the comments, especially about trying to run NG directly rather than through the outboard regulator, I'll share some thoughts about that regulator. While it functions like a common pressure regulator, in service it's more like a flow regulator that's based on demand. In a typical regulator like the ones you might find on your gas grill, the regulator is there strictly to manage downstream pressure. Between that and each burner you have a valve to regulate the gas flow to individual burners. Each valve depends on having a constant upstream gas pressure so one burner doesn't change as flow to other burners' flow is changed. The regulator needed for the NG conversion is similar, but has a downstream pressure 'setpoint' that's slightly lower than atmospheric pressure. It's trying to maintain a slight 'vacuum' if you will. The outlet port senses the engine drawing on it while running, and opens to maintain that target 'vacuum' level by adding more NG as the engine asks for more air/fuel with load demand increase. With engine stopped, the regulator senses that outlet pressure is too high (above its slight-vacuum target pressure) and stops adding NG. Absent that level of flow management, a 'normal' regulator with a target out pressure slightly higher than atmospheric as the propane regulators do, would open instead and try to add more NG to bring the engine inlet pressure up. That situation happens when the engine isn't running.
Bottom line though is that you MUST have something that shuts off NG flow when the engine isn't running. Using the regulator adds some self-adjustment to fuel flow as load and RPM's change in running service, something a solenoid valve won't.
The gory details:
On this generator's propane side, there's a solenoid-operated shutoff valve. It's open when the engine is running, closed on not running. If the engine is off or, more critically, if it stalls, that solenoid valve closes and blocks propane flow to the engine inlet. The actual flow metering is dependent on the size of a Venturi tube in the engine inlet. There's some flow physics involved to get the correct propane flow through that nozzle. Since the supply gas density and the ideal fuel/air ratios between the two gasses are different, a Venturi and flow restriction sized for one gas won't translate well for the other.
In some ideal configuration, a separate larger venturi nozzle would be installed just for the NG fuel. Whether you used a separate flow regulator or not would be a choice that would include having a solenoid-operated shutoff valve for fuel flow, function similar to how the existing propane solenoid functions. Assuming sufficient supply sizing to maintain relatively constant inlet NG pressure through that second valve to the nozzle, it would run in load-sensitive mode quite nicely.
This particular generator is an inverter type, so the throttle is RPM controlled based on load demand. More demand, more throttle and some more RPM's. In classic generators, a throttle governor is set for a constant 3600 RPM to maintain 60hz AC output frequency. The throttle is adjusted continuously to maintain that constant RPM. Using the Venturi nozzle for propane solves a large part of the fuel flow and mixture management while 'solving' for both RPM and load variations with the inverter. Adding another larger Venturi tube requires a larger and longer section of inlet piping if two are in the same piping. For compact/portable generators like this, there really isn't enough room to extend that pipe between the carburetor throttle and the two separated Venturis without having the carburetor throttle and air cleaner outside the casing. Instead of that second precise Venturi doing the flow and mixture control for us, we depend on that large regulator to vary the pressure upstream of the engine inlet, and include that adjustable bolt for fine-tuning single-point/load fuel flow management. Not ideal, but it seems to sort-of work OK. For longer-term flow management, I'd probably replace tune-by-ear with periodic inspections of spark plug color, after some run time in a typical use period.
Finally, the look-see down behind the controls in the video shows the limit switch on the fuel-selector knob as a too-common microswitch. In a situation where there's a somewhat reasonable chance of having gas fumes I'd be looking for something that's just bit closer to 'intrinsically safe'. Portable generators aren't subject to the same rules for electrical components as fixed stations, and of course they are sold to a market price point, so such things are forgotten by cost managers. As we do our conversions and think about not having a hard and specific fuel shutoff on engine not running, think about those relatively open switches and the size of the fireball.
I’m running into the same dilemma as you did. there aren’t any small quiet tri-fuel generators out there. Thanks for sharing !
I did the conversion on my Firman WH03242. Replaced the existing 1/4" propane quick connect adapter on the generator with a 3/8" NG quick connect adapter connected thru the existing hole with a brass bulkhead fitting. Had to drill out the inside and outside holes on the generator by about 1/8" to get the new fittings to work. Used 3/8" barbed fitting on the back of the bulkhead adapter. Needed to cut the hose a bit and heat it up to fit on the barbed fitting. Replaced the quick connect adapter on the existing regulator/hose that came with the gen to NG quick connect so that I could swap back and forth between NG and LPG. This does require two separate regulators/hoses to be stored! Everything worked absolutely perfect until I did the load test. Could push the unit to over 3000 watts on LPG but only get to about 2000 watts on NG. Zero obstructions in everything I did. Decided to look at the carburetor. The hose going to the carb is definitely large enough. Issue is the brass pipe connecting the carb to the hose. Its inlet is very small. Like 3/16" or less. That is way too small for NG to run at full power. I am wondering if they changed carbs between our unit builds. Like I said, I am able to get about 2000 watts perfect but pushing any further it starts bogging down. Happy with the conversion but I wasted a ton of time for no gain. For anybody looking to do this conversion, recommend taking gas tank out, removing hose from carb and examine the inside diameter of the brass fitting coming out of the carb. If something like 3/16" or less, just connect to the generator using the propane quick connect.
I'd be a bit surprised (not terribly surprised) if they changed the inlet to the carburetor. Is there any chance that you forgot to remove the air inlet plugs on the natural-gas low-pressure regulator? (I forgot to remove those plugs twice, and it didn't run well.) Did you try running it without a natural-gas low-pressure regulator?
I wouldn’t be able to run it without the regulator as I couldn’t get it started. I did remove the plugs. That I did find out about the first time I played with it. The NG regulator works perfect on my ryobi that I had installed an aftermarket carb that supported trifuel. I should have taken a picture of the carb inlet. It is seriously small compared to the hose that connects to it. Talk about being disappointed…. Thank you though for your great video.
@@dannyjones6251: I'm not sure if it would help, but it could be that your low-pressure regulator is set to be too restrictive. Apparently, they are not all set identically. You might want to watch the following video from "Vlad F K" about how to adjust a Garretson low pressure regulator. (Remove the locking screw above the gas inlet, and then tweak the adjustment screw.) I didn't need to do this.
th-cam.com/video/d8A-k-TUnwg/w-d-xo.html
One thing to consider, you will not get the output on NG as you do on LPG or gasoline. (look at the information on ANY tri-fuel generator)
@@CharledKimble: I explained that in my video. On natural gas my Firman WHO3242 generator runs smoothly up to at least 2650W (and 3000W on LPG). Dannyjones6251 commented above that he was only getting 2000W on natural gas.
Well, this is exactly what I was looking for to use my WH03242 with NG. Idk why TH-cam didn't show me this video in the results when I was looking but thankfully someone else linked it and it looks like everything I would need to do this is covered in the video so thanks for putting this together.
I'm happy that you found my video and disappointed that it didn't show up on your TH-cam search. I added every relevant keyword that I could think of so that it would be searchable. May I ask where you saw the link? (Maybe I should post links on some relevant forums or product reviews.) I hope my video helps you. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!
Wow extremely detailed and super helpful video. Post Hurricane Beryl, I realized that running off natural gas is almost a necessity because fuel and propane was scarce around my area. I ended up returning my unit because there's not enough power to run my window ac unit, refrigerator, lights, modem/router, and computers. My friend has this generator though and I forwarded your video to him.
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for confirming my concern that propane & gasoline may become scarce after a disaster.
Thank you for this video. So well made and informative. I have no idea why no one makes a tri fuel inverter, like not even one model.
There are lots of tri-fuel generators, but unfortunately no compact ones. I guess that the generator manufacturers assume that people with natural-gas-fed houses have enough space for big generators.
Very nice instruction to modify for Trifuel. I have a ng whole-house Generac and a Gas/Propane portable for backup but being that Generacs are unreliable, wanted a backup solution. I noticed several manufacturers have just released trifuel inverter gennys but they are expensive and currently only offering the larger sizes so this is a great alternate smaller gen solution.
I mocked up the same thing on a champion 4250 dual fuel open frame inverter generator (model 200914). This was for testing so I went ultra budget at the expense of ease of use - no quick disconnects, extra line, splitters, ect... I opted for 20ft of 1/2 gas line 2x female flare (South Bend brand) and a regulator from "Mikatesi" store on Amazon which came with the loadblock and some barb fittings. After that I only required the 3/4 MIP to 1/2 male flare adapter. Like your set up, there is no permanent modification to the generator.
The 4250 comes with internal 3/8" propane line so I disconnected the hose via the access cutout in the control panel then just ran it directly to the knock off Amazon regulator's loadblock barb.
I connected it to an old 1/2" gas dryer line in the basement and ran it out the window. This was because it provided the easiest access and I didn't want to wrench on my very dated gas meter. It's definitely on the butt end of my house's nat gas line - not ideal.
In quick testing it happily managed 2210 watts in eco mode. I didn't have anything readily available to properly ramp up the load so I turned off eco and threw on a 3125 load - it sputtered to an unrecoverable stop despite killing the load early - not surprising. Started right back up without issue.
The results were encouraging enough that I'm going to put the effort and expense into testing/refining the set up. Originally I was going to modify my Honda eu3000, however I caught a really good deal on Amazon for the Champion ($325). For $325 generator + $120 in conversion parts I'm in the same ballpark as what it would've cost to convert the Honda, but I have a spare generator and I'm not modifying a $2k machine...
For anyone on a tight budget, wait for the Firman refurb sales on Ebay + coupons or Champion deals on Amazon (Prime Day?). If you want to deviate from these specific generator models (Firman WHO3242 or Champion 200914), look up the parts diagram for whatever model you have in mind and see if their propane hose diameter is 3/8" (good) and if there's an internal gas regulator (less ideal) or external detachable regulator (good).
Thanks for the inspiration, Dave!
Interesting information! Thanks for sharing! Happy to hear that my video helped!
Yeah... as you probably saw at 23:09 in my video... Just like your experience, when I added a large incremental load (rather than smaller, incremental loads) that pushed my generator somewhat near its limit, it also caused my generator to stall unrecoverably-- even though I quickly removed the load while the engine was still struggling.
At $325, you got a heck of a deal on that Champion 200914 (currently ~$600 on Amazon). Let's hope that our efforts were all for naught and we'll never need to use our generators!
Awesome vid . I ordered an ai power 7100 today and I want to add NG capability to it. Hopefully it’ll be a similar set up. Thanks again for the detailed information.
This generator is currently on sale @Costco for 650 online or 599 in store till the end of March 2024.. Got one yesterday and it started right up on Propane. It now ships with a 3/8" quick connect so it's an easy conversion to add Natural Gas with a low pressure regulator like in the video.
@@DaveRaveVideo Well scratch that Dave. There is a part number on the chassis mount quick connect of XQ14 which crosses to be 1/4". My confusion is that the supplied connector on the Firman regulator is bigger than my standard 1/4" connections I have around here. That's a weird connector.
@@tramonson Bummer. The male & female 1/4" quick-connects on mine seem to be standard, because they work with other 1/4" quick connector components that I bought on Amazon. However, at 8:46 in my video I mention that I bought a 1/4" quick-connect kit at Ace Hardware that would not mate with the generator. I assumed that the Ace kit was non-standard, but maybe it's a difference between a US standard and metric standard?
Just what I was looking for! Thanks!
Great video, thank you for your contribution.
Did you consider just changing the propane quick connect to a 3/8"? Maybe not as easily replaceable but would avoid the coiled hose. You would also need another adapter to use the supplied propane supply hose, but that's it, 2 adapters. And the on demand NG Century kit of course.
At 9:14 in my video I said that I wanted to replace the 1/4" female quick-connect with a 3/8" quick-connect but, (1) I couldn't find a 3/8" quick-connect that had a threaded end that it could be mounted to the internal bracket, and (2) I couldn't find one that was thin enough in diameter to fit into the hole where the 1/4" quick-connect resides. (I didn't want to enlarge that hole and void the warranty.) If you find one please let me know. That would be a much nicer solution. It wouldn't be too difficult to adapt the propane output fitting and there are extension-cables available for the propane solenoid cable.
Holy smokes! This video could not have had better timing for me! We had a massive storm blow through Houston just now that knocked out The power on something like 900,000 homes. At about 8:00 p.m. I finally pulled my same generator out of the box in the dark and by cell phone flashlight added the oil and finally figured out how to fire it up. I had to cut off one of my 20 amp capable extension cords in order to backfeed that into my electrical panel. Of course I was not fully prepared with a list of breakers to feed my refrigerators so I struggled for 2 hours trying to figure out which breakers would feed the refrigerators to no avail. I have no idea what the hell is going on but I was able to trigger one of the GFI outlets in the kitchen so I just plugged in a couple extension cords internally in the house to power the refrigerators until tomorrow morning. I have a couple 30 lb propane tanks and three 20 lb tanks but it doesn't make any sense to do that since I have natural gas right at my grill like you do. So thankful for you and you taking the time to put together this extremely competent video for the rest of us who don't understand how to convert something like this. Amazing job sir and thank you for the bottom of our hearts in our home in Houston! I will use your links purchase the items that you listed.
The damage from that Houston storm made the national news this morning. I hope your power outage is brief. But if it's not, I hope that you're able to get the needed parts quickly or at least refill your propane tanks. Good luck!
FYI: I did not want to go through the hassle & expense (including permitting and building inspection) of adding a generator interlock switch to my circuit breaker box-- especially for such a low-power generator. So I bought some extension cords & power strips (and 2 shore-power inlets) that I can use to bring electricity into the house and power some essential items like my refrigerator, gas-furnace, router, gas-range, Internet modem & desks/PCs, garage-door opener, LED string-lights, TV, etc. Just in case I'm away from home (but my wife & kids are home) during a power outage, I also added extension cords for difficult-to-move-or-reach appliances (fridge, range & garage-door-opener) such that the extension cord & appliance-plugs discretely emerge from behind the appliance, thereby enabling those appliances to be easily unplugged from the house-power and plugged into the extension cords from the generator, without moving the appliances from their cubbyholes. I also added a generator transfer switch to my gas-furnace so that it can easily be connected to the generator.
www.amazon.com/Veepeak-Flanged-Waterproof-Trailer-Straight/dp/B0B87MNXLF
www.amazon.com/BOYISEN-Generator-Transfer-Switch-Certificated/dp/B0BW91KN19
I'm pretty sure it's illegal - and dangerous to repair crews - to backfeed without an interlock.
@@reese2694: Yes. An interlock is required by code to prevent back-feeding that could injure or kill repair crews. It also prevents damage to the generator from front-feeding (when the power returns). It would be illegal, but I think that both of those problems could be avoided if the incoming power supply to the panel is cut-off, but people forget to do that, which is why the interlock is required by code.
Dave, It is getting difficult to find propane in Houston and they are estimating we have another four or five days without power in my particular area. I absolutely hate cleaning carburetors out after using gas. Do you happen to know if I use regular unleaded gas in the generator to get through this event, am I then able to just run the generator for an hour or something like that on propane or natural gas to then completely clear the carburetor and the bowl out from having any regular gasoline remaining? My goal is just to not have to drain and clear that carburetor the old fashioned way if these systems are set up to work like that?
@@AndTodaysProjectIs: Thanks for confirming my concern that propane could become scarce in a major power outage. I don't know if running the generator dry of gasoline, and then running it on propane would clear all of the gasoline from the carburetor. It's an interesting idea, but I just don't know how the dual-fuel carburetor is set up. If switching to propane simply cuts of the gasoline-flow and if the propane simply feeds into the carburetor's gasoline bowl, then we might expect the propane flow to evaporate any remaining gasoline from the gasoline bowl (and its sediment pit), float, jets, throttle, etc. But I just don't know. If you find out, please let us know. Good luck!
So wait...your generator's 1/4" LPG inlet actually has a 3/8" barb on the back? And all 3/8" gas lines to the carb? That's extremely fortunate.
My Champion has all 1/4" gas lines to the carb, which I guess means I need to find another option.
But outstanding video, and it still helped me navigate options.
Yes. Fortunately, on the Firman WHO3242 generator, the backside of the 1/4" propane quick-connect is a 3/8" barb, with a 3/8" hose feeding the carburetor. Not sure why Firman didn't use 1/4" hose, but I'm glad that they didn't. Since tri-fuel generators have natural-gas wattage ratings that are about 81% of their propane wattage ratings, if your Champion generator is rated for less than ~2,250W on propane, then 1/4" line is probably good enough supply it enough natural gas for (0.81 x 2250W=) ~1800W. My generator ran nicely on natural gas through the propane quick-connect up to ~1800W so I'm guessing that's the power limit of 1/4" hose.
@@DaveRaveVideo That's an excellent point. Thank you! My Champion 2500 is indeed small, with propane running watts = 1665W. Thus it should be capable of approx. 1350W with natural gas (0.81 x 1665W). Enough to run my fridge and a few lights. And the Champion's engine is 97cc, which is half the size of the WHO3242 engine. So I'll bet that you're right, and that the 1/4" propane inlet and internal lines won't be a bottleneck on performance with natural gas at this low level of power. I'm going to give it a shot and load test it. Thank you again!
@@noads6566: Yep. I GUESS she'll run up to her natural-gas power-limit (~1350W) without being bottlenecked by the 1/4" line. I (and perhaps others) would be very interested to hear your results. Good luck!
@@noads6566 Have you completed any testing? I'm very curious, as I'm thinking about buying a Champion 2500 myself. Thank you!
@jotunofficial Yes, I bought a natural gas regulator and all the fittings and hose to connect to my Champion dual fuel 2500. I tested it with variable-power heat gun and measured the watts drawn with a kill-a-watt. It ran fine up to around 1500-1600W. I didn't run it at that level for too long, but I'm comfortable that it'll run a fridge plus some lights just fine on nat gas.
This is great, thank you!
Valuable resource for me.
Using gasoline: One option is to completely run dry the tank and run a SMALL AMOUNT OF AVGAS FOR A FEW MINUTES. IT WILL NOT GUM UP THE CARB
Well done. Thank you.
Thanks for your efforts. Your numerous side experiments were interesting and show you have an inquiring mind.
Am I correct in thinking that if a person is satisfied with 1800 Watts output, then using a 1/4 inch male quick connect natural gas hose connecter to the female generator quick connect orifice (rather than the Y hose addition) should be OK all else being the same?
IMHO, yes. If you're satisfied with ~1800W, then you can just run natural gas (NG) through a low-pressure regulator (for safety) to the built-in 1/4" propane quick-connect. Alternatively, you could probably just remove the 1st stage, metal propane regulator (that is connected outside-the-blue propane regulator) and directly connect gas into the second stage of the blue propane regulator. According to my notes... AFTER (not before) the engine warmed up really well, I was able to run it up to 1900W with it sounding pretty good. Above 1960W, it really started to bog down sounding unhealthy, and bordering on stalling. Once it started to falter into a stall, it usually would not return to running smoothly-- even if the entire electrical load was removed. (Not sure why. I guess it has something to do with the engine's computer not being programmed to deal with natural gas and getting "confused".) So if I were going that route, I'd target running it at 1800W or less.
I seriously considered going the propane-quick-connect route instead of teeing-in a 3/8" NG line because 1800W is enough to run my refrigerator (370W), furnace (425W), Internet modem & router (~29W), a few laptop PCs (25W each), monitors (~27W each), a desktop PC (~200W-500W), gas range (2W) and some LED light strings. But as a rule of thumb, motor-startup surge is typically about double the running wattage, and so my fridge motor probably surges to 740W on startup, my gas furnace probably surges to 850W, and my electric garage-door-opener (445W) probably surges to 890W. So I was concerned that a startup-surge could stall the generator. I was also concerned that I wouldn't have much headroom to run "less-essential" electronics like a big-screen TV (170W) & coffee maker (1100W). So I decided to go through a bit more effort and cost to get it to run at a sustained 2430W (with an occasional surge up to 2650W being OK).
If you go the propane-quick-connect route, please make sure that you buy a male 1/4" quick-connect that has a relatively thin rim as I showed in the video. The first one that I bought at Ace, didn't mate with the generator's female connector, but I THINK that's because it was non-standard. Not sure. Most of the ones that I see on Amazon, SEEM to compatible based on the photos. Good luck!
You are so helpful🙂. Thanks a lot.
BTW I sent a message to Firman suggesting they consider making a natural gas harness optional or standard with the generator (because it would be popular and profitable). There are a lot of power outages worldwide these days and this easily stored /powerful generator would fill a niche.
@@alexbaskous3603 Yeah... It's unfortunate that there are no compact tri-fuel generators from ANY manufacturer. I guess they all figure that anybody with a natural-gas powered house has plenty of space for a big open-frame tri-fuel generator. They probably figure that compact generators are primarily used for RVs & camping. It wouldn't surprise me if they are correct that the market niche for compact tri-fuel generators is too small to address.
Maybe, but their low price and unique natural gas addition might give them an edge on the competition for “small generators.
BTW I’ve been impressed with a friction lowering product called “Tufoil” used by the US military to prolong engine life. You might want to look it up.
Thanks again.
(“Aperture” not aerators above)
great details on the isntructions. how many turns did you get to set your load block. i cant get it to stop popping so i know its running rich.
IIRC, the pop-pop sound only occurred when it was IDLING too rich (not when it was running with a load). I don't know how many turns it took on the load block but I started with the load-block wide-open and then (with a full load attached) I screwed-in the load-block bolt until the engine just started to bog down from lack of fuel. At that point, I unscrewed it about a 1/4 turn (until the engine ran smoothy again). Fortunately, when I removed the load, it idled smoothly without the pop-pop sound. Is that what you did? Is it making the pop-pop sound only when idling, or also under load?
@@daveriola163 combination of both. I was able to get the unit started fairly easy and although the popping is less under load, I can still hear it a bit. i was able to run 2 hair dryers on low for about 2500W but unit will not run one on high at 1800W on NG.
@@ArturoPalaciosJr : Hmmm... Are you using a Garretson-Impco style low-pressure regulator? Did you screw in the bolt until the engine bogged down and then just barely back-out the bolt? Is the generator the Firman WHO3242 (not that it should matter).
@@daveriola163yes, to all. Still trying to figure out why it does that.
excellent video. can you please specify the parts you used for the restriction block (3/8) that is in the output of the regulator? the link you sent to amazon is different , and have a low rating, as people claim it leaks. also, it takes 2 weeks to get it. thanks.
Thanks! The "Nash Fuel" brand Hose Block Power Valve linked above (3/8" NPT x 3/8" barbed) is the correct part. It was 2-day Prime shipping when I bought it, but now it seems to be 1-2 weeks on Amazon. Nash Fuel also sells it directly from their website. The price is a bit higher including shipping, but their website currently says "3-4 days". (I'm not sure if that means arrival time.) Nash Fuel also sells it on Ebay but the shipping time is 2-3 weeks.
Currently, it has a 4-star rating on Amazon (with 29 ratings). Currently 2 of the 3 written reviews are bad but I think that those 2 reviewers are probably trying to use it for a different application, because they complain of gas leaking. In this application, the engine is sucking fuel from the regulator so the hose block power valve doesn't leak gas out. If anything, it leaks a bit of air into the fuel that's getting sucked into the engine.
@@DaveRaveVideo thank you for the quick response. as i looked at the part that is in your video, it looks different than the "off the shelf" Nash fuel part in amazon. yours has adaptor between the Tee and the regulator. they must have changed this . thank you!
Could you just replace the existing LP quick connect and use a 3/8 sized one for NG?
Yes. I would prefer to do that. But as I mention in the video at 9:15, I couldn't find an EXTERNALLY THREADED 3/8" quick-connector that could be attached to the existing bracket (with a nut), nor could I find one that is slim enough to fit through the front-panel hole. (I don't want to void the warranty by widening the hole.) Starting at 9:15 I showed several photos of the removed 1/4" quick-connector alongside a ruler and a caliper, just in case anyone wants to search for a suitable 3/8" replacement. (I should have clarified that in my video.) If you find a suitable 3/8" replacement, please let me know!
If I could find and install a suitable 3/8" female quick-connector, I'd also try to adapt the Firman propane regulator's 1/4" male-quick-connect output to be a 3/8" male-quick-connect so that I could run on either natural gas or propane through the same female 3/8" quick-connector. If I did that, then the regulator's barrel electrical plug would likely need to be extended, but those extension cords are easily, cheaply available online. I'm pretty sure that the barrel connector is 5.5mm O.D x 2.1mm I.D plug, but it could be 2.5mm I.D. (It's hard to measure.)
What do you mean by converting it? I just talked to the guy at Firman and he told me this is already a duel fuel generator.
Conversion from dual fuel (gasoline & propane) to tri-fuel (gasoline, propane, & natural gas).
Propane to NG
Any idea how long it would run on a 5gallon propane tank? At 50%
I can't speak from personal experience but the widely used formula for this class of generator is: Gallons-of-propane-used per hour=Watts-used/3000×0.65. If by "50%" you mean 1500W, then the generator should use about (1500/3000x0.65=) 0.325 gallons/hour. Considering that "5-gallon" propane tanks really only hold about 4.75 gallons IF YOU HAVE THEM FILLED AT A FILLING STATION*, then that would be about (4.75 gallons/0.325 gallons/hour=) 14-hours per tank. This calculation jibes with the reviews that I watched & read about the WHO3242, wherein reviewers talked about how long a 5-gallon (20 lb) tank lasted in their real-world usage. If you gain better real-world knowledge, please let me know.
*If you don't have your 5-gallon tanks filled at a filling station, and you instead do tank-exchanges like Blue Rhino or Amerigas, then the exchange tanks will only contain 3.5 gallons (15 lbs) of propane. In the calculation above, that would be 10.7 hours per tank.
@@DaveRaveVideo FYI, just watched a video today. He ran his RV for 9 hours using everything he wanted. (20lb tank)
After viewing untold TH-cam "Generators to Propane and NG kits"; I now believe that there is NO reason; to use a Regulator when using NG. Just connect it to the inlet* of the Carburetor. Yes, you DO need the Regulator when using Propane Gas.
* you may need to use the "Y", but that is the only item you need when using NG.
For what it's worth. Thank you kind Sir.
Carburetors are not leak-proof valves. So if you don't use a low pressure regulator, then natural gas will leak out of the carburetor when the engine is off. When I tried making a direct-connection to the carburetor I could smell the natural gas leaking out of the carburetor. The same is true of propane unless you have a normally-closed engine-activated solenoid valve (like the blue one that is included with the Firman generator). Also, if you don't use a low-pressure regulator (and a properly tuned hose-block-power-valve) you will essentially force-feed too much fuel to the engine, likely causing carbon build-up and reducing engine longevity. I tried direct connections with propane (without a solenoid valve) and natural gas (without a low-pressure regulator). The engine will run but it's dangerous, bad for the environment, and bad for the engine's longevity.
@@DaveRaveVideoMy natural gas manifold already has a low pressure regulator hooked up to it. If I tee in-I am assuming I am getting the lower downstream pressure from that. I know my main comes in at 2psi. Do appliances (stove, dryer, water heater) typically have a built in regulators, which i am assuming runs at .5psi or less?
@@jamahster I'm not sure what you mean by your "natural gas manifold" and I can't think of a reason why there would be a "low pressure regulator" downstream of your meter. So I'm guessing that by "low pressure regulator", you mean the service regulator at your gas meter. That is not a "low pressure regulator" like the Garrettson-Impco style regulator that I used in my video.
From what I've read, natural gas from the street to your meter is typically ~2psi - 60 psi. The service regulator at your meter lowers that pressure to about 0.25 psi for your appliances to use. Natural gas appliances don't need pressure-regulators to further decrease the pressure below 0.25 psi because they were designed to work at 0.25 psi. Therefore gas appliances typically just have valves-- either (1) adjustable-valves that control the flame-height of appliances like stove-tops, or (2) on/off valves for appliances like water-heaters or furnaces where there's no need to adjust the flame-height.
Low-pressure regulators take the pressure from 0.25 psi to 0 psi (or actually to something like MINUS 0.125 psi). Low-pressure regulators only allow gas to flow from their output if there is a vacuum on the output (i.e. gas is being sucked from the output). In this case, the low pressure regulator only allows gas to flow when the generator's engine spins and sucks air/fuel into the carburetor. Carburetors aren't like valve-controlled gas appliances. They don't get a force-fed fuel/air mixture from a valve. Carburetors suck in fuel/air. There is no leak-proof valve on a carburetor like there is on a stove-top burner. So if you don't use a low-pressure regulator, the natural gas (at 0.25 psi) will leak out of the carburetor when the engine is not spinning.
If you have a ng bbq hook up is that low enough ?
Or still need low psi regulator
Mine came with what I thought was a low pressure manufoukd for the propane attachment
Can one use that ?
Thx
@@DaveRaveVideo
@@swormser865 A bbq hookup is not low enough pressure. It's the same pressure (~0.25 psi) as every other gas outlet in you house. If you don't attach a low-pressure regulator (as I did in the video for my bbq outlet) then natural gas will leak out of the engine's carburetor because (unlike a bbq's adjustable burner-valve) carburetors are not leak-proof valves. The low-pressure regulator reduces the pressure to 0 psi (or less). It will only allow gas to flow if the spinning engine sucks in the gas.
Firman's included propane regulator is designed to regulate much-higher propane-tank pressures. It also has a solenoid that prevents propane-flow unless its electrical connector is attached to the generator. This prevents propane flow from leaking out of the carburetor unless the engine is spinning (as mentioned above). It is possible to use an adapter to connect natural gas to the inlet of that the propane regulator, but the natural gas flow would be restricted by the the 1/4" hose and quick-connect, and so you'd only be able to run the generator at about 1800W (because natural gas has lower energy-density than propane and therefore requires a 3/8" hose & connector).