Can a River Help prove where Zarahemla is??? | Book of Mormon Evidence
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- How does a single river help Book of Mormon geography?
Have you ever wondered where is the city of Zarahemla that we hear about so much in the Book of Mormon? And what about the river Sidon that flows close by? Could the direction the river flows help us figure out where it is?
Can a river like the the Mississippi help us figure these questions out?
Join us as we faithfully discuss all of these possibilities and the evidence behind it in episode 3 of this 5 part series.
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Thank you so much for all of your hard work. I shouldn't get snarky in the comments, but I can't help it. I simply wish people would take time to watch an entire video before feeling the need to comment. But, that is the joy of a public forum. I would encourage anyone that feels the need to criticize to watch the entire episode first. In the end, hopefully we can all come together and give thanks for The Book of Mormon and its ability to help all of us come closer to Christ. We can quibble over small things, but it's the gift of the atonement that the book is trying to highlight and emphasize. Geography is fun. But it isn't everything. And I know these fine gentlemen know that. They are simply trying to help those that are struggling with a world that puts so much emphasis on the tangible. There are answers out there. One simply needs to take the time to look. They are simply trying to remind us that we shouldn't cave to the criticisms of society. There are many possible explanations that provide a real intangible setting for the book. I'm looking forward to the day when everything will be made clear. Thank you again for all of your hard work! I have truly appreciated it.
Thanks for your comments. Rod and I agree. We love the BofM with all our hearts and it is the word from God through prophets. I have a spiritual witness of this truth and a large part of my testimony includes information that Hill Cumorah is in upstate NY and the Nephites began in North America. As Moroni said, we may know the truth of all things.
Thanks guys for all the great information! This presentation was much easier to follow than the last one. Thanks for all your efforts!
Thank you!
Great video I'm such a Hopewell and Adena geek. I live near a bunch of mound sites including zelph mound and Dickson mounds not far from me. I also worked at a state park near me that has a mound on the property no-one has ever excavated. It's in the nature preserve portion of the the park. They keep it a secret to keep looters away.
I’m sure enjoying these videos Rod and Rian!
Yeah! Thank you!
Nice I just ordered the map books and I am looking forward to getting into it. Thank you
You'll be glad you did! Its like reading the book all over for the first time as you follow the maps along as you read!
Enjoy! Thanks!
@@BookofMormonEvidenceI have always thought it was in North America.all the windup scenes are up here. If it was in South America Joseph smith would have been born there, and the the new Jerusalem would be down there. Love your information is very informative. carol
Where do you find the map book spiral bound
@@wayneorr6748New Jerusalem is not America nowhere near America why do the Mormon church and Joseph Smith teach lies
I know about Wayne Mays work at the Hopewell site across from the temple. But what wonder if he's taken a look where these rapids were.
Genesis creation story and Lehi's dream both use the "conflux" definition of the "head of the river".
I like that information. I also believe the 4 rivers of Genesis and the Garden are the Upper Mississippi, the Lower Mississippi, the Missouri River and the Ohio river. Since Adam was placed in MO this makes sense.
Thanks for the video! Very interesting :-)
What was the results of the special photography that they did similar to national geographic over across from Navoo? Inquiring minds would like to know the results. Anxious to hear about all that was found 😊
Assuming you are talking about Lidar imaging. The U.S. government has very high resolution Lidar scans of the area. Heartland Research Group has obtained copies of those scans and have identified numerous potential locations of interest, including burial mounds, linear mounds similar items. Lidar doesn't penetrate into the ground surface, but rather uses a laser to make sophisticated measurements of the ground surface that is able to "see through" vegetation to create accurate detailed topography.
About 5:52, Index is mentioned (same in Book of Mormon Index and Triple Combination). Sorry to see that the comments are all over the map. The 1970 Index (made by man not in the Book of Mormon that Mormon abridged) does NOT use the phrase, "runs north to sea." However, in the 1979 military edition and the 1981 scriptures, it says under Sidon, River, "runs north to sea." It would appear the Meso scholars got it added to fit their model. However, the 2013 scriptures removed this ridiculous phrase. I believe Hartman Rector Jr. may have helped get it removed. He believed an ancient America setting. The Meso model has dominated the narrative since the 1950s in our church going back to Thomas Stuart Ferguson who got $250,000 to find evidence in Mesoamerica. He never found any over 2 decades of searching and he lost his testimony. This bizarre theory goes back to 1917 in the RLDS church when L. E. Hills was rejected twice by his own First Presidency.
Back in the 1800s, the hemispheric model was favored by many, but it didn't last long because people realized that the distances were too great. Orson Pratt added chapters and verses and footnotes to the 1879 edition. His footnotes place the Hill Cumorah in New York (only 1 Hill Cumorah). However, his footnotes place the river Sidon (Magdalena) in Columbia, South America along with the Land of Zarahemla and the city of Zarahemla. I don't blame these early church members, they didn't have GoogleEarth and LiDAR.
I believe the walls of Zarahemla have been found using LiDAR in the Montrose, Iowa area. The research is ongoing. This is the same wall where Samuel the Lamanite preached from. This knowledge will silence the critics.
Thanks for your explanation Bruce. You always add good reviews. We appreciate your support.
I'm new here. First video I watched. Where do I buy that book full of maps ("over 160") that was held up at min 26:00?
www.bookofmormonevidence.org/bookstore
@@BookofMormonEvidencePsalm 147:19-20 proves that you People are spreading falsehood , Zarahemia is a made-up lie from Joseph Smith just 1 of hundreds
Love you guys !
Glad they recognized they might have made mistake about flow of River Sidon
The only river in the BOM is the Nile and it flows North.
@@redfightbluethe Nile River is not in North America it's in North East Africa
33:00 Part of the reason for the Louisiana Purchase was to have rhe freedom to explore and preserve archaeological sites? 🤯. Thats a new one!
I like the Heartland Setting, but lean slightly to the Western New York Buffalo setting for a possible Zarahemla (I am still open to a Missouri/Illinois option)...what if, the word "opposite" of Nauvoo wasn't simply across the river from Nauvoo, but Zarahemla being across the county?? Possibly "opposite" referring to 20 years into the future of a future Zarahemla (as a TYPE) Salt Lake City?? Please don't shout me down, I have been an advocate and student of the Heartland Idea for over 9 years now and this is an idea I keep returning to as a possible interpretation of D&C 125:3
Great for you to keep an open mind as we all should. There just are not sufficient mounds and artifacts dating to the BofM timeline west of Zarahemla.
Zarahemla of the book of Mormon is not just west of the Sidon river. That could go half way around the world away. It was on the western banks of the river Sidon. Montrose Iowa is a reasonable hypothesis.. No shouting down. just my little old opinion.
Montrose Iowa is likely the City of Zarahemla and land to the north, near the US Border east, to about the Wabash river, and south to the Ohio River are deemed to be the LAND of Zarahemla.@@bryanpons6585
My wife found me one of those books at a yard sale. Would love an updated edition with all the new information.
The Heartland model is wrong. We learn in Alma 22:32 that Zarahemla was nearly surrounded by water. The river Sidon was east of the Zarahemla, but the west sea was just west of it.
We also learn from Alma 22:33 the Lamanites were hemmed in on all sides, so they couldn't possess the land northward. The Nephites did this by using the narrow neck of land (not narrow passage) to prevent the Lamanites from going northward. The seas east and west (oceans) prevented the Lamanites from going around. If the seas were lakes, as so many have suggested, the Lamanites would have been able to see land on the other side and tried to go around. The Lamanites weren't stupid. They would have tried to go around if it were possible, but Alma 22:33 said it was impossible. In other words, there was no trying.
Lastly, Joseph Smith said Lehi and his family landed a little south of the Isthmus of Darien (South America.) Many of you argued that Joseph never confirmed he made the statement, but he has never denied it either. What we do have are other prophets and apostles confirming it was a true statement. So, the Law of Witnesses have been fulfilled. I have yet to hear or read a prophet or apostle argue that Lehi and his family landed in what is now the United States. Everyone of them, who had spoken on this subject, said they landed in South America.
The "land of Zarahemla" was nearly surrounded by water. So, not specific to the city itself. The "land of Zarahemla" can represent something entirely separate than a city name. We do the same thing today: Washington state is not a city (e.g. Washington DC, etc).
@@kz6fittycent I never said the city was surrounded by water. I said Zarahemla was surrounded by water, which is true. You assumed I was referring to the city. Instead of assuming, you should have asked for clarification.
Also, Alma 22 says Zarahemla was the place of the Mulekites first landing by the west sea (Pacific Ocean.) No where in the Heartland model does that description fit. All you have are assumptions. Alma 22 proves the Heartland model false.
Wow that is so clear, I guess I need to trust you? Is Guatemala the land of Eden, New Jerusalem, and Cumorah, or is the heartland of America?
@@riannelson67 Nice red herring.
It depends on how big the lake is. The Great Lakes, especially, does look like an ocean when you are next to it.
Do we know if any archeology has been done on either side of or where these these rapids used to be. ??
Great BUT something is wrong with your sound.. it degraded towards the end causing skipping and low voice modulation...
Sorry for the inconvenience. We had some technical difficulties the day we recorded this. We have found a solution for The next episodes
While I completely respect FIRM, Rod, Wayne and all the others, and have been to the FIRM expo and plan on going this year, I am not sold on the FIRM map. I lean towards Phillis Olive Carols map but find issues with it also. My biggest complaint about the FIRM map is I believe there was only one narrow pass or neck AND I don’t believe it was 1.5 days journey across. The two scripture that mention how far across from sea to sea the land was is talking about the land of Bountiful NOT the narrow neck or pass.
There is an error in D&C 125:3. It should read:
D&C 125:3 Let them rebuild the city Zarahemla unto my name upon the land opposite the city of Nauvoo, and let the name of Zarahemla be retained for it.
I would to love have you share with me that information. Thanks
If we assume that "rebuild" would be more accurate that "build" as the revelation states, that would only be true if rebuilding the Nephite City, which they were not. To rebuild would imply making a new city in the same manner, style, or layout of the former city, none of which is available in a cohesive way.
So the revelation is wrong and must be changed to fit your narrative?
Please don't edit Joseph Smith.
Where can we get a PHONICIA shirt?
When you volunteer and help work on the ship, they will usually offer you a memorial shirt. You may be able to purchase them either on sight or possibly online at their website at www.phoenicia.rocks.com ...
The Phoenicia story comes from Herodotus Book 4, Chapter 40-42. This manuscript does not describe a sailing to America. It describes a sailing around Africa. The geography described by Herodotus is identical to what we read in Alma 22:32. This means Lehi was the sailor Herodotus was speaking about and Alma 22:32 is describing Africa. Lehi did not sail to America.
Both Describe the Land of Desolation.
Both describe a "Narrow Neck" of Land.
Both describe a "sea to sea" at the narrow place.
Both describe the "distance" across the narrow neck.
Both describe the fact that the land South is nearly surrounded by water except the narrow neck of land.
More broadly Herodotus and the BOM both describe:
Both are describing a sailor.
Both describe a sailor at 600 BC.
Both describe Egypt.
Time, place, location, activity, and the geography described are the same.
Clemens marked fathoms and not yards. “Mark twain” would be 12 feet
The riverboats plying the Mississippi typically needed about 6 feet of water or draft to keep from running aground. Ocean-going ship captains use fathoms for water depth but according to Twain the river going boats used feet/yards and used a typically 10-12 foot stick with a mark at 6 feet (2 yards) which would be thrust into the water and as long as it didn't hit bottom at the mark they were alright to proceed.
Why is it necessary that he walked across the Mississippi rather than having taken a canoe or boat? I’m sure the Nephites and Lamanites did plenty of boating on these large rivers.
The shallow river means a huge advantage for trade and commerce to go back and forth by foot or horse etc.
My dear guests I am Mr Rourke your host...welcome to Fantasy Island 😂
So simple it's just gotta be true.
Oh. and.... The Holy Ghost approves of this message!! 😊
Love it. Thanks for commenting.
lies
Interesting theory, but I find myself with one question. If the Nephites were in North America, why is winter never mentioned? I would think that kind of snow would be noteworthy, especially to folks from the middle east.
Is snow or the lack there of important in terms of the doctrine of Christ? Remember the Book of Mormon is an abridgement not a full history, and certainly not an almanac. Weather is not important for salvation
@tanyarobinson1146 I didn't get the impression we were discussing salvation, just speculating on location. That snow is never mentioned seems one point in favor of a more southern location. I'm not suggesting it proves or disproves anything, and it certainly has no bearing on one's testimony regardless.
They never mention guanabana or other fruits in the Book of Mormon, either. They don't mention caiman either. So many items that were not mentioned by anyone in the Book of Mormon. There is also no mention of making cimeters out of wood and obsidian, which might be considered "important" to someone or a group of people used to making weapons like that out of metals.
Frankly, I don't know, but I'm offering these items as a sort of steel man against the notion that because snow isn't mentioned, it is therefore logical to assume they didn't have any.
One possible explanation has come to me - The large plates would have been the most likely place for something to have been mentioned. We don't have records from the large plates until King Mosiah. So, it is entirely possible it was mentioned earlier in the large plates, and not mentioned again as while certainly interesting enough to deserve mention, it would not be worth repetition, therefore WE don't have record of it (for now).
Wow, why is summer never mentioned? The word snow is in the Book of Mormon, and it speaks of many seasons, not just hot and hotter. Did you know rain is only mentioned a few times and hail only once. The Nephites didn't keep a weather report.
I thought the homeland model says the jaredites arrived up by the St Lawrence River. So what does that have to do with honey down in Florida?
@@IntoAllTruth. That was my point. He talked about the Jaredites bringing bees and then associated that with a type of honey found in Florida.
It was simply a way of emphasizing the importance of honey, and how Lehi's family did not bring any like the Jaredites did, but must have found it in abundance upon their arrival.
Jaredites went up St Law.
Lehites landed in Florida or Georgia. And their seeds worked at the same latitude as Israel.
Lehi brought honey from the Old World and if landing near Tallahassee where the Tupelo Honey grew, makes sense that Lehi may have planted it there. Remember the latitude of Jerusalem and of Tallahassee is 31 degrees. I believe Jaredites landed on the Pacific near Seattle after 344 days on the water.
If you look into the 344 days it took the Jaredites to sail to the Promised Land, they could not have come up the St Lawrence.@@rconger24
Alma 3:3
3 And now as many of the Lamanites and the Amlicites who had been slain upon the bank of the river Sidon were cast into the waters of Sidon; and behold their bones are in the depths of the sea, and they are many.
Key word sea
Mississippi runs to the sea.
@@IntoAllTruth.Mississippi runs to the ocean. In this model the Great Lakes are the seas
@@Tk.utelab "2. A large body of water, nearly inclosed by land, as the Baltic or the Mediterranean; as the sea of Azof. Seas are properly branches of the ocean, and upon the same level. Large bodies of water inland, and situated above the level of the ocean, are lakes. The appellation of sea, given to the Caspian lake, is an exception, and not very correct. So the lake of Galilee is called a sea, from the Greek." 1828 Websters
@@Veevslav1read what I said again. The Great Lakes in this model are seas.
@@Tk.utelabAnd I provided linguistic evidence to support the matter or to detract from it depending on which side of the line you are on.;)
People do not understand the ambiguity of language and are thus ignorant in their pursuit of absolutes.
I am curious about something I have been wrestling with though, why does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints so strongly resemble the Kingdom of Noah rather than the peoples of Alma?
I have tried the application of Mathew 23 to the matter and am left in a perplexed situation. For Brigham Young and Co have been worse than the Pharisees and Sadducee neglecting the entirety of the law.
So when do we start watching for the fulfillment of 2 Nephi 28 "21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well-and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
2 Nephi 28:21
and
"24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!"
2 Nephi 28:24-25
I am further perplexed about how this affects the Priesthood operations post Brigham. D&C 121 is quite clear.
"36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man."
Doctrine and Covenants 121:36-37
So maybe you can answer the questions I have not found an answer to. And yes it is essential to my salvation.
Base on Book of Mormon geographical map.
Zarahemla is in the Amazon rainforest.
Based on the revelation from the Lord through His prophet, Joseph Smith, in D&C 125:3, Zarahemla was located across the Mississippi river from Nauvoo. According to the Heartland model geography of the Book of Mormon Zarahemla is located across the Mississippi river from Nauvoo. Clear?
@@BookofMormonEvidence no such revelation
48:00 Even more, 2 Nephi 1:8, and Jacob 5: 44.
I'm sorry to say, but the Guatemala model is baaaad.
It has certainly caused confusion and doubt, as Joseph Fielding Smith foretold it would.
@@BookofMormonEvidence did he say anything about it?!
So Joseph smith was wrong when he said Lehi landed near Panama?
@@RecoveringUGrad bring the reference
Joseph Smith never made the claim. The claim derives from the Bernhisel manuscript in which William McClellan wrote a note that he believed Lehi landed 30 degrees south in Chili. Church historians have corroborated this fact, and have made it clear that Joseph had nothing to do with that claim. Unfortunately, later writers assumed it to be from Joseph as well and thus it was perpetuated widely over the years. Source documents are so crucial to good research. As President Nelson has taught, "Good inspiration begins with good information." Always check your sources and go back to original documents whenever possible.
How did Nephi people populate this land so quickly with just one family during Nephi’s lifetime enough to be asked to be their king?
We've made the assumption that it was just a family or two. It may not have been.
Joseph Fielding Smith said, "If we are willing to accept the Bible record, which is confirmed by the Doctrine and Covenants, the entire civilization of the earth was destroyed in the flood except Noah and his family.232. 17 Moreover, this destruction took place less than 5,000 years ago, and today the population of the earth, notwithstanding wars and destructions, is estimated at over 2,000,000,000 souls.
The population of Europe, based upon the best records available, is vastly increased over that at the time of the discovery of America; yet upon this hemisphere are to be found hundreds of millions of people, descendants of European and Asiatic ancestors who knew nothing of this land before the discovery by Columbus. The rapid increase of posterity is known to every genealogist who has traced the record of the early settlers in this western country."
Didn't Joseph Smith say that Manti was in the heart of Missouri, pretty far from the Mississippi? How does that reconcile with your presentation? Thank you.
Provide references please.
Joseph Smith said Manti was in Randolph county Missouri, which is about 90 miles south west of Nauvoo.
ANCIENT CITY OF MANTI IN MISSOURI.
The following account is taken from the history of the travels of the Kirtland Camp: “The camp passed through Huntsville, in Randolph County, which has been appointed as one of the stakes of Zion, and is the ancient site of the City of Manti, and pitched tents at Dark Creek, Salt Licks, seventeen miles. It was reported to the camp that one hundred and ten men had volunteered from Randolph and gone to Far West to settle difficulties.”
The following account of the same event is taken from the daily journal of the Kirtland Camp, and was written by Samuel D. Tyler: “September 25, 1838. We passed through Huntsville, Co, seat of Randolph Co, Pop. 450, and three miles further we bought 32 bu. of corn off one of the brethren who resides in this place. There are several of the brethren round about here and this is the ancient site of the City of Manti, which is spoken of in the Book of Mormon and this is appointed one of the Stakes of Zion, and it is in Randolph County, Missouri, three miles west of the county seat." Millennial Star, vol. 16, p. 296.
Journal of Samuel D. Tyler, Sept. 25, 1838, filed in Church Historian’s Office.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-1956], 3: 239
There is absolutely no evidence of the use of the name of Zarahemla as a city or stake or branch in Iowa before the March 1841 revelation of D&C 125. Some scribes inserted bogus references in documents after the true date of the revelation in D& C 125.
Correct. Historians have, in a few instances, inserted the name Zarahemla into earlier documents to provide additional clarity about a specific location. But deeper research has found that the earliest mention of Zarahemla across from Nauvoo was in the original account of the revelation known as D&C 125.
This all seems Zelph evident to me.
Especially when one becomes Zelph reliant! 🫵😉👍
The Tennessee river flows north. There is an answer
And that flows into the Sea North as in the text?
Alma 17:1 notes that Manti (land and city) is south of Zarahemla.
Alma 50:7 notes that the Land of Nephi was south of the Land (and city) of Zarahemla.
Alma 22:27 notes that a narrow strip of wilderness (which ran from east to west) separated the lands of Zarahemla and Nephi and that the border of Manti was by the narrow strip of wilderness. The headwaters of the Sidon River are also noted past the border of Manti to be near/in the narrow strip of wilderness.
Alma 43:22 also confirms that Manti bordered the narrow strip of wilderness and the headwaters of the Sidon River.
Alma 16:6 also notes the headwaters of the Sidon River were in the narrow strip of wilderness (south wilderness), south of Manti (beyond the border of Manti).
Alma 50:11 notes this narrow strip of wilderness (running east to west and separating the lands of Zarahemla and Nephi) became a fortification line in the later Nephite-Lamanite wars. The fortified line again ran by the headwaters of the Sidon River.
Mormon 1:10 and Alma 2:15 notes that the Sidon River ran along the eastern border the land/city of Zarahemla.
Alma 22:30 notes that the Mulekites (people of Zarahemla) first landed north (thus the Sea North for the landing) in what was called Desolation (where the Jaredites lived).
Mormon 1:6 and Alma 22:31 note that Zarahemla is south of that site of first landing.
Therefore, we have the rough north to south locations of those places (the -ward suffix notes not a perfectly straight line of these sites) is:
Desolation/Mulekite place of first landing
Land/city of Zarahemla
Land/city of Manti
Narrow strip of wilderness/headwaters of the Sidon River
Land/city of Nephi
The Sidon river then flows north from the headwaters past Zarahemla.
Now let’s look at elevation:
Alma 43:32 notes that the Sidon River flowed down into Manti.
Alma 56:25 notes that the Sidon River flowed down to Zarahemla from its headwaters and Alma 43:32 notes that the border of Manti was down from the narrow strip of wilderness.
Conversely, Alma 2:24 notes that the Land/city of Nephi was up from the Land/city of Zarahemla and Alma 16:6 notes the narrow strip of wilderness was up from the Land/city of Manti.
Furthermore, Alma 32:31 notes that the Mulekites left their place of first landing on the coasts of Desolation to go up into the land southward in which was where they founded the city of Zarahemla.
We know up and down relate to changes in elevation because of the use of these words in the same way in Alma 43:34.
Therefore, we have the elevations of the north to south locations of those places (from the lowest to the highest in elevation) is:
Desolation/Mulekite place of first landing
Land/city of Zarahemla
Land/city of Manti
Narrow strip of wilderness/headwaters of the Sidon River
Land/city of Nephi
The Sidon River then flows downwards (or downhill) from the headwaters past Zarahemla.
Thus, the Sidon River flows roughly north (northward) and downhill (downwards in elevation) to the sea.
You will have to look up the scripture where the dead in war were placed into the Sidon River and were carried to the depths of the sea to get from Zarahemla to the Sea North. It is late and I have patients to see in the morning.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Everything is addressed in the video. We can take 30 minutes to type up a response, but we can't take the time to actually watch what this program is about. Oh well. Dopamine hit received. Now, if you will excuse me, I have patients I need to see.
The Buffalo River run north and dumps into Lake Ontario, the 14th largest lake in the world (could be considered a sea)....I still consider the heartland, but lean slightly to the Buffalo, Western New York Model.
The word "headwater" or "headwaters" doesn't appear or exist in the text anywhere! It ONLY refers to the 'head' of the river in most instances. Conflating "head" and "headwater(s)" is the first major mistake and your Hypothesis becomes weaker as you ignore the actual words used.
Would be funny if it weren’t so sad
still looking for Zarahemla ? , massive city . no chariots horses steel swords maybe it's just all Tapir poo.
Have faith, not proof. Ever read D&C 125? I can show you all kinds of mounds, pottery and other artifacts all over Lee county Missouri dating to BofM times. If you seek ye shall find. There are steel swords found in North American and many copper ones as well.
@@riannelson67 Yes, Faith. Fuzzy Wuzzy feel goods is your go to back stop shield . bear your testimony when all else fails.
@@riannelson67 like smash a square peg in a round hole . It just does not fit.
The only river in the Book of Mormon is the Nile.
The Nile is the river in the Tree of Life Vision that guided Lehi to Ethiopia. Ethiopia is the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:13.
Lehi migrated to Egypt, then to Ethiopia where he became an Ethiopian Jew.
The falling away and destruction of the "multitudes" in the Tree of Life Vision is also prophesized in Jeremiah 44. This all happens in Egypt.
Lehi was in Egypt when he had the vision. He lived on Elephantine Island. His "altar of stones" is located in ruins.
The angel tells Nephi his descendants will be destroyed on the same river. This happens in Egypt.
The Nephites lived in Ethiopia until they migrated back to Egypt, where they were destroyed.
One migration back North from Ethiopia to Egypt is clearly defined in Helaman 3. The "treeless" land where they build with "cement" and "ship timber" is clearly Egypt.
Jeremiah 44 describes Egypt as "Desolation". Please compare to the definition of "Desolation" in Helaman 3:6.
The Ammonites in Helaman 3 come from the Biblical Ammon in modern day Jordan.
The Land South is Africa. The Narrow Neck is the Isthmus of Suez.
Crossing the Isthmus of Suez, between the Nile and the Red Sea, is repeatedly referred to as a 3 day journey. The Children of Israel mention it. Lehi mentions it. And Alma mentions it. The 3 day journey was confirmed by Carsten Niebuhr in 1762. He crossed from the Nile to the Red Sea in 3 days on camel.
Zarahemla is North of Ethiopia which places it in the Sahara Desert. Old maps spell it Zahara. Zaharemla is in the Zahara.
There's a Sidon Village in Sudan on the Black Nile.
The River Sidon is not the Nile, it is the Mississippi. By the way Adam was placed near Independence MO before the land was broken apart. It is the same place the New Jerusalem will be. I have no problem with your opinion.
I respect your opinion as well but I also like talking about this and sharing my view.
In my opinion the idea that the Mississippi is the River Sidon is wrong for a few reasons.
The River Sidon clearly flows North. Lately this has been whitewashed to allow for other possibilities but the text is pretty clear, it flows North.
The Bible and the Tree of Life Vision in 1 Nephi 8 make it clear that the Garden of Eden is the "headwaters" of the river being mentioned.
This aligns perfectly with the Ethiopian belief that the Nile River flows out of the Garden of Eden. Again, the Nile (Blue Nile) begins in Ethiopia and flows North to Egypt and Genesis 2:13 associates Ethiopia with The Garden of Eden.
Adam-Ondi-Ahman is not on the Mississippi river, it's not even on the Missouri river. It has never been associated with any "headwaters".
When Lehi said in 1 Nephi 8:14 that he looks to the "head" of the river, he is speaking about Ethiopia because he believes Genesis 2:13. Lehi is on the Nile River in Egypt and the vision he sees is of the Garden of Eden at the "head" of the Nile River in Ethiopia. That is where he must go.
Have you read Jeremiah 44? It defines what will happen to Jews that go to Egypt. They are referred to as "multitudes" and they will be destroyed. Also, Egypt will become a "Desolation".
This is exactly what Lehi sees in the Vision when he says that "multitudes" follow him into Egypt and are destroyed when they fall away onto "forbidden paths". Abraham 1:23 says "Egypt" is forbidden.
This is the purpose of the Tree of Life Vision. To reiterate Jeremiahs words and to guide Lehi and his family out of Egypt and to the safety of Ethiopia, the Garden of Eden, the "head" of the Nile River and the location of the Tree of Life.
When Lehi journeys "South" he is following the Nil River to the convergence of the White and Blue Niles. He then says he goes "East" after Nahom. Nanom is an Ethiopian word that is meant to guide to Ethiopia. Baby boys are named Nahom in Ethiopia every day.
Omer in Ether 9 takes this same journey. He also leaves Jerusalem and journeys into Africa and then to Ethiopia. Moroni takes several efforts to connect Omer to Lehi.
This is because the Book of Ether is the Ethiopian Genesis. It describes how Ethiopians journeyed North down the Nile to Egypt and then sailed to Israel.
The Book of Ether is describing how Ethiopians brought "Milk and honey" to the Biblical Land of "Milk and Honey".
Anyway, there's no reason or evidence to suggest the Garden of Eden is in America or that the Book of Mormon happened in America. The entire thing fits Ethiopia perfectly and is haphazardly shoehorned into America based off a religious belief, not evidence.
@@riannelson67
It is clearly revealed many times through Prophet Joseph Smith that the book of Mormon events took place in Americas. It means South, Central and North America.
Lehi landed first in Chile South America ( land South ) then they move north to somewhere in peru, then they move north again to the heart of the land which is the place of Zarahemla. Zarahemla now the Amazon rainforest.
The neck of the land is central America.
Land North is North America.
West sea is pacific ocean
East Sea is Atlantic Ocean
@@foottanghyena5620 I'm well aware of the mainstream belief. I simply disagree strongly with it.
Alma 22:32 describes Africa in identical terms as Herodotus did in 500 BC.
Herodotus said:
Asia is mostly DESOLATION.
Egypt is NARROW.
The DISTANCE across the Narrow place is 125 miles.
There's a SEA to SEA feature a the narrow place.
Africa is BOUNDED BY THE SEA.
These same terms appear in Alma 22:32
This means Alma 22:32 is describing Africa.
Lehi is the sailor Herodotus is describing. He sailed around Africa and returned to Egypt.
@@riannelson67 Sidon river is the Amazon river.
The little Colorado River flows north into Colorado . The south West ,Hopi, Zuni, apachi,sounds likely if pronounce like indians would say nephi, lehi, lamoni, tarahemla indians all in South West .. cumora is all over South West... Indians building look like Israel too, not tents, ... If you look at California ,Nevada and South Utah it was all made by fast flowing floods... Nephi landed in California when it was still a island... Just look at wats happening now the lakes are forming again in death valley and San Joaquin valley. It was all water like the water divided the land.. California is the land spot of nephites and Zarahemla is in San Diego areath-cam.com/video/ZUsbR8aPTnU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sLR-KocU7BAzNltz
@@micahjoelm ... So where's your migratory beasts?? We have plenty up here. Always have. Joseph Smith held the bones of Zelph. Of course... an apostate gospel might overlook these things. :>)
Way too huge an area. The text notes the distance from the Sea East to near the West sea to be a days journey.
@@godsoffspring4195 elk at all over South West
@@davidcarruth5906 .. Hi David. Elk are not migratory beasts. Buffalo and Cariboo are. They migrate great distances and both were also followed by the ancient Amerindian just like the Book of Mormon says. Elk simply move from highlands in winter to wintering grounds in the valley regions nearby. They do not migrate.
Unless you believe the revelation given by the Lord to Joseph Smith in D&C 125:3. If you believe that revelation is true, then a California Zarahemla isn't.
Sorry. The Book of Mormon indicates that the Sidon River flows North to the sea. The Mississippi flows south. That won't work according to the text.
Perhaps you need to watch the video. At 8: 12 you will find what you are looking for. Assuming you are looking for it.
@@downsmath You mean the Mississippi flows North? Wow! All these thousands of years it has flowed south without interruption. Silly me.
Where in the text does it say that?
Chapter and verse please
@@JD-pr1etAgain, everything you are bringing up is addressed in the video. Watch! You can do it. Take small breaks. But something tells me that's not what you're here to do. So be it. Move along.
The answer is no.