Shreck, Partisan, Von Luckner, Patton, Rommel, Hunter, Saladin, Hetzer, SRM/LRM carriers and Maxims - i had a vehicle infantry only merc unit, These were the heavy hitters and most productive vehicles, I loved the first succession war
I love this type of content, giving highlights on units that don't see the spotlight too often. I personally love the Schrek PPC carrier, partially because I got one I painted so convincingly like a rock that multiple opponents have forgotten where it is in tournaments, partially because it's an awesomes firepower and mobility for a bit less than 2/3rds the price. I love to just sit them around a corner and have them be unignorable area denial. Also the turret means it can't be outflanked like an Awesome can.
I'm more of a striker kind of guy. They are in the same price point to scorpions but have an lrm 10 and srm 6 which is really annoying in large numbers, and on top of that quick and well armored.
Manticore's biggest weakness is that medium laser that effectively weighs 4 tons because it needs 3 whole heatsinks. A second SRM6 with a whole extra ton of ammo or a ton of armor if you feed both with the same ton, seems like a better investment.
Just budget conscious I believe. The bulldogs large laser can be seen as suboptimal at 13 tons of space used, you can get an ac10 and a ton of ammo for the same weight. But you have to look at the game settings lore meta as well. Medium lasers and heat sinks are cheap and plentiful, even in the periphery where alot of the weapons exports are tanks and other vehicles. Auto cannons above 5 are much more rare, a large laser is slightly more common than an ac 10 in the old rulebook. A lot of vehicle units are built around one rare weapon, and a series of cheaper but efficient systems stacked on. This of course somebody who prefers to do rpg campaigns rather than one off battles.
How to make a mech commander cry - company of AC20 armed Saladins. Manticore is the workhorse of 3025 tanks - quality vehicle. My fav beatstick is the Schrek PPC Carrier. Its the tracked Awesome. Favourite ambush vehicle is the SRM Carrier. They can melt Assault mechs. Sure the crew doesnt have a long life after the ambush is sprung, but they make a mess as they go down swinging.
Saladin is a very hard hover to use. The speed 12 is too slow to turn and get a movement modifier. Hard to line up the shot or take second shot. Usually have 3 turns with it not really doing much but moving to line up a shot.
That's a solid, albeit expensive armor company. I like more light and Mobile units like Pegasus and strikers, though the hovercraft can be expensive too.
@@eddapultstab2078 Oh very expensive, but that company is part of a reinforced battalion (6 companies, 2 mech/2 inf/1 arm/1art, unit started in 3005) so its got some security. I used to have four demolishers, and they were great but they lacked the kind of versatility that the Luckners have, being more or less one trick ponies it was hard whenever I had to employ them on an open advance. As for hover vehicles my favorite is the Regulator (50-55ton with a Gauss rifle) and I had a whole company of them once in a 3070 merc unit. Would use those things to act as a quick counter force.
I really appreciate the Pike for various purposes, especially because it has armor that's pretty thick. Out of cheap 3/5 tracked fire support units, an LRM Carrier, AC/2 Carrier, LRM or AC/2 Partisan, or similar vehicle will get deleted if it gets noticed (by senpai). The output of a Pike is lower, but it does have armor - the OP4 has to commit. I also have an unnecessary affection for the Shillelagh.
It's main defense is that it will always be the least threatening thing on the map until torso sections gets exposed and the threat escalates quicky. I have seen players ignore motionless scorpions and vedetts for more threatening targets only to get whittled away with dinky autocannon fire. If you know how to array them they can do good work.
Liked this, but its ends very abruptly. Would've maybe made sense to have a summary with the full list of the vehicles covered up on screen followed by a sign-off for your channel.
Fantastic video, ty! I've actually been playing around a lot recently with vehicle theory, this video's timing couldn't have been more perfect. Love your battletech content, please keep them coming!
I really like the bulldog. Not the best tank out there but its reasonable for the price. The variety of loadouts is nice aswell. The twin ac2 varient fill a nice nich without having to pay a fortune for it.
The best tank in the game is Scorpion! I have seen it at work enough times that i know its never a bad choice in any situation and often ignored until the damage starts plinking in inconveniently, and it will, in a fight.
A lot of good vehicles in 3025. As you say, most vehicles aren't so good in later eras. Three LRM carriers with an SRM carrier to defend them from fast moving attackers is brutal. A platoon of Karnov VTOL transports can get nearly a battalion of infantry across the map in a shockingly short time. Ferrets and Savannah Masters make great spotters for indirect LRM fire. They have the speed to get well behind the enemy and force them to either ignore being spotted, or turn their back on your main force to try and hunt them down. The Goblin tank, which comes with a squad of infantry, is a fun one to use. A platoon of Goblins bring an integral platoon of infantry with them for fire support. Schreck PPC Carrier is all the firepower and speed of an Awesome for something like 2/3 the price. And various fast hovertanks bring decent firepower and speed to bear against rear arcs in jig time.
As mechs get better heat management and become faster the gap in some of the roles vees might otherwise fill does indeed widen. Zippy hovers and "high heat" standup vehicles are outshone easily. However, I'd still say there are big uses for vees in later eras. The role just shifts a bit. As an IS player they are invaluable battle taxies for BA. As things like C3 and targeting computers are introduced they shift to become even better as long range fire support. Superheavy fortress vees can also be phenomenal if the BV limit is high enough. Plop them in the middle of a map and let your opponent despair. Even in areas were mechs become more competitive there is still the stand out vehicle. One of course cannot ignore the horrors that are the plasma epona. Those things are terrifying.
The Manticore isn't just great for 3025, even the base model is perfectly serviceable even in eras with more advanced tech. It's the tank against which I compare all other tanks in the setting for that reason. The Drillson is an overlooked vehicle most don't think about, usually when someone takes an introtech hovertank from my experience, it's something like a Saladin, a Harasser, or a whole swarm of Savannah Masters. The Hunter's something I've used quite successfully as a cheap fire support platform, though I think I prefer the model with an LRM-10, two medium lasers, and two machine guns just for general use. In campaigns, if I want to use Hunters, I tend to deploy a lance of Hunters with a pair of the base model and a pair of the other variant I just mentioned for support. The Scimitar I'm honestly not a big fan of, if I want to run that armament I think I'd rather take something like a Vedette that's a little more survivable against incoming fire. Later models like the C3 model with a RAC/2 are another story. If I want a spotter for LRM barrages in 3025, if it must be a conventional vehicle it's usually going to be a VTOL like the Warrior, particularly the H-7C model, which can also be used for indirect LRM fire support. The Partisan's another quite potent weapons platform, especially the LRM variant since it's basically an LRM launcher that doesn't blow up if you so much as look at it funny.
What about the Savannah Master? I have taken out Atlases (Plural) in one game using only one. Rammed one of map and rammed another the next turn into a cliff.
The Manticore is a good tank...almost too good (and too expensive) for what I look for in armor. I like the Hunter a lot. Normally I like the Striker armored car for light fire support, but the Hunter is good.
Striker is more a screening unit, they are designed to be Mobile and threatening. They are really good at distractions because they can put players In a dilemma like go for the lrm carrier and have a striker shoot you in the back or let the carrier live another round and deal with the striker.
It’s so funny that anyone would think a humanoid mech could compete with tanks. Tanks are just much better suited to combat; mechs would just be so much more vulnerable, and have way more surface area to cover with armor.
Ugh, the Archer. Too little armour, too little ammo, unimpressive mobility, and basically useless secondary weapons. Pretty sure you can build an identical mech on a 65 tonne chassis and all you lose is a couple of points of structure from each location. There's almost no drawback to replacing the archer with a vehicle.
It's literally only 1 ton shy of maximum armor for a 70-ton 'mech. And that last half ton is mostly wasted points. As for everything else, it's a fire support heavy that moves at standard heavy speed, has a decent brace of 4 medium lasers for close-range defense, and it's got enough ammo for twelve full turns of fire, actually more than that, since it can't fire both launchers every turn without incurring excess heat build-up. ... You're a fuckin' Clanner, aren't you?! 🤨 😂😂😂 Edit: Tinkered around in Mech Factory. You can't make the same 'mech at 65 tons. With the base 10 heat sinks, the 13 tons of armor, and 4 MLs, the two LRM-20s can only get 6 shots each, only half of what the Archer gets. You'd be better off just using a Crusader.
@@WolfHreda Yeah, I think I got some of the numbers confused - was running from memory. I'm also very much a 3025 guy - 3025 is very much speed / firepower / armour, pick 2. In contrast, with the smaller clan mechs it feels way to easy too make a mech with no drawbacks (and thus boring). I'll play an archer if we're playing stock 3025, but it's really not a very good design. Secondary weapons need to be entirely in arms (for flexibility) or torso (so it can punch too). It gets hot just from standing still and firing the primary weapons, and I generally find that lance vs lance needs 15 rounds of ammo or else you either run the mech at reduced capability or risk running out. That said, I homebrewed a 65 ton 3/5/3 version of the archer. 200 armour, 2 LRM-20 with 18 rounds each, 2 ML, 12 sinks. For a fire mech, I'd much rather 3/5/3 than 4/6 as you can much more easily manoeuvre around hills or disengage. 12 sinks keeps you heat-stable firing the LRMs if you don't move. And if C-bills are a factor, you save well over 1mil. Normally I max armour (rounded down to nearest ton), but would be happy running an LRM mech 1-2 tons light. We don't play with vehicles much, but I'd happily take an LRM carrier over an archer - manoeuvrability is still poor, but you get 3 racks of LRMs rather than 2 for a fraction of the cost and the survival play is to not get shot..
Shreck, Partisan, Von Luckner, Patton, Rommel, Hunter, Saladin, Hetzer, SRM/LRM carriers and Maxims - i had a vehicle infantry only merc unit, These were the heavy hitters and most productive vehicles, I loved the first succession war
I love this type of content, giving highlights on units that don't see the spotlight too often. I personally love the Schrek PPC carrier, partially because I got one I painted so convincingly like a rock that multiple opponents have forgotten where it is in tournaments, partially because it's an awesomes firepower and mobility for a bit less than 2/3rds the price. I love to just sit them around a corner and have them be unignorable area denial. Also the turret means it can't be outflanked like an Awesome can.
The Schreck is so good in 3025 that it's not even funny.
That armor though!
Vroom vroom dozens of cheap Savannah Masters are pouring over the hills to protest their exclusion from this list.
Lol didn't want to go there
Take more than 4 and I am not playing with you.
Theyre always excluded from lists at my game table. We ban them outright due to how many can be spammed outright in a list
You get those fucking things out of here! Play with some Harassers like a proper Inner Sphere commander.
I'm more of a striker kind of guy. They are in the same price point to scorpions but have an lrm 10 and srm 6 which is really annoying in large numbers, and on top of that quick and well armored.
Manticore's biggest weakness is that medium laser that effectively weighs 4 tons because it needs 3 whole heatsinks. A second SRM6 with a whole extra ton of ammo or a ton of armor if you feed both with the same ton, seems like a better investment.
Absolutely, even the Manticore is suboptimal!
Just budget conscious I believe. The bulldogs large laser can be seen as suboptimal at 13 tons of space used, you can get an ac10 and a ton of ammo for the same weight. But you have to look at the game settings lore meta as well.
Medium lasers and heat sinks are cheap and plentiful, even in the periphery where alot of the weapons exports are tanks and other vehicles. Auto cannons above 5 are much more rare, a large laser is slightly more common than an ac 10 in the old rulebook. A lot of vehicle units are built around one rare weapon, and a series of cheaper but efficient systems stacked on.
This of course somebody who prefers to do rpg campaigns rather than one off battles.
How to make a mech commander cry - company of AC20 armed Saladins.
Manticore is the workhorse of 3025 tanks - quality vehicle.
My fav beatstick is the Schrek PPC Carrier. Its the tracked Awesome.
Favourite ambush vehicle is the SRM Carrier. They can melt Assault mechs. Sure the crew doesnt have a long life after the ambush is sprung, but they make a mess as they go down swinging.
Saladin is a very hard hover to use. The speed 12 is too slow to turn and get a movement modifier. Hard to line up the shot or take second shot. Usually have 3 turns with it not really doing much but moving to line up a shot.
I run a mixed armor company of Manticores and Von Luckners, 8 and 4, in my 3037 unit.
That's a solid, albeit expensive armor company. I like more light and Mobile units like Pegasus and strikers, though the hovercraft can be expensive too.
@@eddapultstab2078 Oh very expensive, but that company is part of a reinforced battalion (6 companies, 2 mech/2 inf/1 arm/1art, unit started in 3005) so its got some security. I used to have four demolishers, and they were great but they lacked the kind of versatility that the Luckners have, being more or less one trick ponies it was hard whenever I had to employ them on an open advance. As for hover vehicles my favorite is the Regulator (50-55ton with a Gauss rifle) and I had a whole company of them once in a 3070 merc unit. Would use those things to act as a quick counter force.
PArtisan lrm is nice... the ontos with lrms is nice also. I like the LRM and SRM Carriers for ambushing, but surprised you didn't mention the Schrek
Liao Po?
The Schrek is dangerous of course, but I am a guy who doesn't feel safe with a direct fire unit with such weak defenses
@@TrailblazerBT maintain stand off distance and have good screening units to keep the pressure off them.
I really appreciate the Pike for various purposes, especially because it has armor that's pretty thick. Out of cheap 3/5 tracked fire support units, an LRM Carrier, AC/2 Carrier, LRM or AC/2 Partisan, or similar vehicle will get deleted if it gets noticed (by senpai). The output of a Pike is lower, but it does have armor - the OP4 has to commit. I also have an unnecessary affection for the Shillelagh.
It's main defense is that it will always be the least threatening thing on the map until torso sections gets exposed and the threat escalates quicky. I have seen players ignore motionless scorpions and vedetts for more threatening targets only to get whittled away with dinky autocannon fire. If you know how to array them they can do good work.
Liked this, but its ends very abruptly. Would've maybe made sense to have a summary with the full list of the vehicles covered up on screen followed by a sign-off for your channel.
Agreed, great info just needs more polish
Thanks, this is helpful feedback!
Thirded. You need an outro.
Great picks! While I haven't used Hunters much, I've gotten a good amount of value out of Strikers for pretty much the same reason.
If the Striker had tracks it'd be better than the hunter as they are they're pretty even
@@mathewkelly9968yeah but the the tracks weigh more and you will have to sacrifice a missles or speed to make up for it.
The hunter is a ranged dueling tank, it has a lot of front armor so it can take a beating as it gives one back.
Fantastic video, ty! I've actually been playing around a lot recently with vehicle theory, this video's timing couldn't have been more perfect.
Love your battletech content, please keep them coming!
I really like the bulldog. Not the best tank out there but its reasonable for the price. The variety of loadouts is nice aswell. The twin ac2 varient fill a nice nich without having to pay a fortune for it.
If you're playing by BV it's a great tank
Was about to call the manticore, wasnt even fast enough its the first image lol
This was a very helpful video. Just getting into combined arms and these were great suggestions!
LRM Carriers and the simple Veddett tank are favorites of mine. Unless you count el cheapo 5 ton hovercraft 😅
The best tank in the game is Scorpion! I have seen it at work enough times that i know its never a bad choice in any situation and often ignored until the damage starts plinking in inconveniently, and it will, in a fight.
I like the Bulldog for an all rounder
It's great for the BV
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A lot of good vehicles in 3025. As you say, most vehicles aren't so good in later eras.
Three LRM carriers with an SRM carrier to defend them from fast moving attackers is brutal.
A platoon of Karnov VTOL transports can get nearly a battalion of infantry across the map in a shockingly short time.
Ferrets and Savannah Masters make great spotters for indirect LRM fire. They have the speed to get well behind the enemy and force them to either ignore being spotted, or turn their back on your main force to try and hunt them down.
The Goblin tank, which comes with a squad of infantry, is a fun one to use. A platoon of Goblins bring an integral platoon of infantry with them for fire support.
Schreck PPC Carrier is all the firepower and speed of an Awesome for something like 2/3 the price.
And various fast hovertanks bring decent firepower and speed to bear against rear arcs in jig time.
As mechs get better heat management and become faster the gap in some of the roles vees might otherwise fill does indeed widen. Zippy hovers and "high heat" standup vehicles are outshone easily. However, I'd still say there are big uses for vees in later eras. The role just shifts a bit. As an IS player they are invaluable battle taxies for BA. As things like C3 and targeting computers are introduced they shift to become even better as long range fire support. Superheavy fortress vees can also be phenomenal if the BV limit is high enough. Plop them in the middle of a map and let your opponent despair. Even in areas were mechs become more competitive there is still the stand out vehicle. One of course cannot ignore the horrors that are the plasma epona. Those things are terrifying.
The Manticore isn't just great for 3025, even the base model is perfectly serviceable even in eras with more advanced tech. It's the tank against which I compare all other tanks in the setting for that reason.
The Drillson is an overlooked vehicle most don't think about, usually when someone takes an introtech hovertank from my experience, it's something like a Saladin, a Harasser, or a whole swarm of Savannah Masters.
The Hunter's something I've used quite successfully as a cheap fire support platform, though I think I prefer the model with an LRM-10, two medium lasers, and two machine guns just for general use. In campaigns, if I want to use Hunters, I tend to deploy a lance of Hunters with a pair of the base model and a pair of the other variant I just mentioned for support.
The Scimitar I'm honestly not a big fan of, if I want to run that armament I think I'd rather take something like a Vedette that's a little more survivable against incoming fire. Later models like the C3 model with a RAC/2 are another story. If I want a spotter for LRM barrages in 3025, if it must be a conventional vehicle it's usually going to be a VTOL like the Warrior, particularly the H-7C model, which can also be used for indirect LRM fire support.
The Partisan's another quite potent weapons platform, especially the LRM variant since it's basically an LRM launcher that doesn't blow up if you so much as look at it funny.
Drillsons are SO good in 3025
J edger is missing. Good fire power, and fast. Armor can take any hit once.
What about the Savannah Master? I have taken out Atlases (Plural) in one game using only one. Rammed one of map and rammed another the next turn into a cliff.
The Manticore is a good tank...almost too good (and too expensive) for what I look for in armor. I like the Hunter a lot. Normally I like the Striker armored car for light fire support, but the Hunter is good.
The turret on the Striker is very nice but at the end of the day I like the bigger LRM launcher on the Hunter
Striker is more a screening unit, they are designed to be Mobile and threatening. They are really good at distractions because they can put players In a dilemma like go for the lrm carrier and have a striker shoot you in the back or let the carrier live another round and deal with the striker.
I always like to bring a Von Luckner to some more tightly packed areas. Plenty of firepower to scare the crap outta mechs that underestimate it.
If we are going in close you might as well use a rommel, those things can be terrifyingly effective, like a hetzer.
Saladins coming at your flank from the swamps is very demoralising😂
It’s so funny that anyone would think a humanoid mech could compete with tanks. Tanks are just much better suited to combat; mechs would just be so much more vulnerable, and have way more surface area to cover with armor.
I've always found it funny, in an endearing way, to note the ways that BT is and is not a hard science fiction setting
Ugh, the Archer. Too little armour, too little ammo, unimpressive mobility, and basically useless secondary weapons. Pretty sure you can build an identical mech on a 65 tonne chassis and all you lose is a couple of points of structure from each location. There's almost no drawback to replacing the archer with a vehicle.
It's literally only 1 ton shy of maximum armor for a 70-ton 'mech. And that last half ton is mostly wasted points.
As for everything else, it's a fire support heavy that moves at standard heavy speed, has a decent brace of 4 medium lasers for close-range defense, and it's got enough ammo for twelve full turns of fire, actually more than that, since it can't fire both launchers every turn without incurring excess heat build-up.
...
You're a fuckin' Clanner, aren't you?! 🤨
😂😂😂
Edit: Tinkered around in Mech Factory. You can't make the same 'mech at 65 tons. With the base 10 heat sinks, the 13 tons of armor, and 4 MLs, the two LRM-20s can only get 6 shots each, only half of what the Archer gets. You'd be better off just using a Crusader.
@@WolfHreda Yeah, I think I got some of the numbers confused - was running from memory. I'm also very much a 3025 guy - 3025 is very much speed / firepower / armour, pick 2. In contrast, with the smaller clan mechs it feels way to easy too make a mech with no drawbacks (and thus boring).
I'll play an archer if we're playing stock 3025, but it's really not a very good design. Secondary weapons need to be entirely in arms (for flexibility) or torso (so it can punch too). It gets hot just from standing still and firing the primary weapons, and I generally find that lance vs lance needs 15 rounds of ammo or else you either run the mech at reduced capability or risk running out.
That said, I homebrewed a 65 ton 3/5/3 version of the archer. 200 armour, 2 LRM-20 with 18 rounds each, 2 ML, 12 sinks. For a fire mech, I'd much rather 3/5/3 than 4/6 as you can much more easily manoeuvre around hills or disengage. 12 sinks keeps you heat-stable firing the LRMs if you don't move. And if C-bills are a factor, you save well over 1mil.
Normally I max armour (rounded down to nearest ton), but would be happy running an LRM mech 1-2 tons light. We don't play with vehicles much, but I'd happily take an LRM carrier over an archer - manoeuvrability is still poor, but you get 3 racks of LRMs rather than 2 for a fraction of the cost and the survival play is to not get shot..
like the FAR superior Catapult
All vehicles and mechs are total trash compared to an army of Savannah Masters for the same BV. 😂