Play War Thunder now with my links, and get a massive, free bonus pack including vehicles, boosters and more on PC and consoles: playwt.link/coneofarc24 Mobile: mwt.game/coneofarc
0:13 apparently the most important part of every Soviet WWII film: An overly dramatic clip of a guy or several of them waving their hand with an angry face, signaling artillery to fire.
2:37 SU-100Y was made in 1940 so it is 1 year older than KV-7, even then there probably was some strange prototype build on heavy tank even earlier. 9:49 If the will give up with multiple guns mount and use just one bigger caliber,like 100-130mm it could be a good bunker buster/assault gun.
A bad design, on account of ammo management: the more types of guns you have, a wider variety of ammo size is needed to feed them. That takes up precious space, and not all of the guns are suitable for a target. Odds are that you will run out of compatible ammo pretty quick, and now you have fewer guns. Logistics are the bread and butter of vehicles.
Not to mention fire control. The 45mm had a muzzle velocity of 760m/s and the 76mm (F-34 variant) 680 M/S. War thunder is a good science project to see what happens when you combine 2 diffrent guns in a tank with diffrent muzzle velocity. It is hell to properly get the shells on target
I mean, they were experimenting with what work. Hindsight isn't a way to gauge how the tank works. Some like the Torpedo bomber look extremely stupid if compared to Dive Bomber, but it worked, just with extremely high casualty.
I never saw the point of sacrificing the turret, but not uprating the firepower. Had the KV7 been fitted with an 85 or 100mm gun, then it might have made sense. Fitting the ML20 into Zveroboy made sense. She be kicking, after all.
No turret means it's smaller, cheaper, lighter and has more armor. Stugs were successful despite its short 75 mm gun hardly being uprate to anything...
@@KuK137 Not really. Stugs only really became the success they were once they were equipped with the long 75mm gun that was mounted on mid-late war Panzer 4's
I really can’t wrap my head around why they thought adding the two small guns would help with anything at all. A single one maybe to deal with light vehicles but that arrangement just makes no sense at all.
You forget the inherently authoritarian nature of the Soviet Union. If someone who is high up in the Party says something, you either agree or get disappeared.
Wow I learned a lot from this video! I love this series on niche of obscure tank designs! Dude you have no idea how much it means to me to have someone present this information in a way that’s easy to understand and reliable! I have a request for a tank video though, I think you’d enjoy researching and making a video on this tank! None other than the St. Emil from my fatherland, Sweden! It’s not very talked about much other than in the World of Tanks community I think it deserves a video of its own!
Great video! I’ve always been fascinated with how so many vehicles can be built on the same chassis with minor changes or simple adjustments. Great video as always!
The twin gun concept was originally used by the British to deal with torpedo boats as a coastal defense weapon. They had a high rate of fire supposedly of 40 rounds for each gun using 6 pounders. Twin flak 128 mm guns used the same concept for an increased fire rate.
I saw from an obsecure source that Stalin is furious when he saw the SMK tank and demanded the engineers to stop making "supermarkets on tracks" or be gulaged, weird to see him thinking that three cannons on one mantlet is not the same as the SMK.
It's a typical design progression, surely..? Combat experience was utilised to produce the Heavy Assault Gun series...'SUs'..that proved so essential in the post-1943 developments on the Eastern Front.... The T-34 and KV chassis' provided a basis for development, matched by the equally versatile 'Sherman'... These machines, for all their faults, proved overwhelmingly successful in the Allied success.. Something we should ALL be thankful for....
I find it so funny seeing interwar and especially soviet tank designs with rear facing machine guns, we're the designers really thinking 'okay so let's imagine the tank is completely surrounded by enemy infantry and continues to fight' I wonder if they were ever actually used
To be honest, when I 1st saw that in the channel the iron Armenian, it made think of a modern equivalent but as a SPAAG equipped with an oto melara 3-inch gun and a pair of 40mm bofors l/60 or l/70, *in a full-traverse turret with near 90-degree elevation* on their own mounts so they match their trajectory at any range; & any radar set used by any SPAAG in service Also can be used as an infantry fire support if situation calls for it
Although one thing to consider the early war German tanks were pretty trash in protection especially the lighter Czech tanks and Panzer II, where the 47 mm would still be effective.
It's easy to fall for German propaganda as it is among the most prolific surviving video material of the Wehrmacht that paints them as a hypermobile, unstoppable force of mechanic behemoths when, essentially until the late stage of the war, a lot of the Wehrmacht still used horse-drawn gun carriages and tanks as well as guns taken from Czech and French arsenal's.
Just very Soviet to build an entire tank around a gun mount before determining if the mount works or if there’s a viable doctrine for the vehicle's use.
I think, and this is only for reasons of Soviet logistics, that the multi-caliber solution can have an advantage when you cannot reliably get shells for the newer gun down the logistics chain, but can get the old obsolete ammo.
With regard to whether it was worthy of more development? Like you said, it *did* get more development, in the form of the SU-152. But the multi-gun concept was a dead end.
The difference being that if the Orks built this it would work. Most of the flaws go away when you can just solve the problem by believing hard enough.
I think generally "more" gun on turrets in regards to heavier armaments rarely works out (though adding more anti infantry weaponry I feel is a respectable and understandable decision). More varieties of ammo means less for the primary needed to combat other vehicles of its kind or stronger structure emplacements. More ammo to combat this issue means less room inside the machine and a higher risk of crew loss-age which depending on your nation (in the early years of the war for Soviets not as much, for a nation like Germany its a heavier blow) could be worse then just having the vehicle knocked out. More armor to offset this issue makes the vehicle slower and more difficult to maneuver, usually placing too much stress on the vehicles parts and requiring more frequent repairs. Too heavy and you cant transport by train or by boat or use to cross some bridges, let alone deal with slopes or slog through muddy terrain. And of course, a bigger slower target as the war went on becomes an easier one for artillery and most notably air power. In short, adding extra guns tends to be a slippery slope especially as the war went on. A single dedicated gun with perhaps different round types, or alternative vehicles to fufill roles it cannot, is just a better investment. They're certainly cool novelties though.
Simply putting the 100mmml or larger guns on these with HE would have been wiser or the ability for turrents or chassis to take a heavier caliber into the future in the design process. Americans and British etc should have learned this too.
Well... The entire narrative was aimed @ anti-tank. But, BUT, 2 gun or 3 gun would have been brutal against infantry. No? Review the "Stuge". Many thanx 👍👍
the Flak 88 was'nt fielded as much as a lot believe it was, especialy in 1942, it was quite a rare sight unless you were in the aviation, it was a problem but not The problem, what caused a bigger threat was the long 75mm guns that were fielded on pz4's and later in panther tanks. the 88 saw the most use as an at gun in the western front
Totally ridiculous. Why anyone would think that two different calibers would be good just baffles me. And in the 2 76mm version, it looks like the guns are not even aiming at the same place, they have divergent aim points by 5 degrees.
Play War Thunder now with my links, and get a massive, free bonus pack including vehicles, boosters and more on PC and consoles: playwt.link/coneofarc24
Mobile: mwt.game/coneofarc
Love your videos man, keep up the good work
the fact that i'm listening to this in the background while playing war thunder is crazy
I know you need to do it to earn money but I'm surprised that you're being sponsored by War Thunder since you hated that game understandably lol
maybe attack the d point?
"Why 3 guns? We only need one, but a better one!
- Real quote from Stalin upon inspecting the KV-7-1
So stalin ordered a tank with 3 guns and wondered why it had 3 guns? Seriously?
For how stupid that man was that’s gotta be one of his smartest moves. “ why 47s and one 76 when we could have the 160mm gun?”
@handsomerob1223 WRONG TERMINOLOGY
Soviets never used 160mm nor 47mm guns. They used 37mm and 152mm ones
@@jonathanpan6110 45mm, 85mm, 100mm, and 107mm as well. 130mm if you count the SU-100Y prototype.
@@justaweirdtree9645the comment you replied to didnt say red army, 130mm was a calibre used by the soviet navy
"And when that don't work, use more gun."
Engineer Gaming
"Hey, Engineer here."
Orks approve more dakka
"I've yet to meet someone who can outsmart bullet..."
Tf2 approved
Pew Pew, BANG
Pew, BANG, Pew.
Miss, Hit, Miss
Pov light tank: bang *Obliterated* bang.
Three requests…
1. The Object 279
2. The Mark 8 Liberty
3. The T-95 Prototype
I have previously covered the Mark 8
Su100 naval cannon would also be really nice
@@ConeOfArc yipeeee
0:13 apparently the most important part of every Soviet WWII film: An overly dramatic clip of a guy or several of them waving their hand with an angry face, signaling artillery to fire.
Could it really be considered a film without it?
karate chop activated cannon
That one WT trailer
2:37 SU-100Y was made in 1940 so it is 1 year older than KV-7, even then there probably was some strange prototype build on heavy tank even earlier.
9:49 If the will give up with multiple guns mount and use just one bigger caliber,like 100-130mm it could be a good bunker buster/assault gun.
They do eventually do that yeah
Youre right, prior even to the SU-100Y (1940) was the SU-14-2 (1939) based off the T-35.
The SU-100Y was impractical but it was really cool in Men of War Assault Squad 2
Nordenfelt: "We have built the world's most successful volley gun!"
Stalin: "Hold my vodka . . . "
I had never heard of this until Spookston did a video about it a few days ago.
ah yes, my beloved spookie
A bad design, on account of ammo management: the more types of guns you have, a wider variety of ammo size is needed to feed them. That takes up precious space, and not all of the guns are suitable for a target. Odds are that you will run out of compatible ammo pretty quick, and now you have fewer guns. Logistics are the bread and butter of vehicles.
Not to mention fire control. The 45mm had a muzzle velocity of 760m/s and the 76mm (F-34 variant) 680 M/S. War thunder is a good science project to see what happens when you combine 2 diffrent guns in a tank with diffrent muzzle velocity. It is hell to properly get the shells on target
Childhood is believing 2 guns on a tank must be the best.
Adulthood is understanding that 2 guns on a tank is logistically impractical.
I mean, they were experimenting with what work. Hindsight isn't a way to gauge how the tank works.
Some like the Torpedo bomber look extremely stupid if compared to Dive Bomber, but it worked, just with extremely high casualty.
I bet Cone has the KV-7 in War Thunder lol
the topic of the video cant be coincidence :D
He at least recognizes when to cash in on public interest.
@ oh yeah definitely
Of course he does, dude got that time to, and I have it
It actually kinda mid (i can still one shot it from the front with my pz-iv.h , and I didn't got kill by it that much.... probably 1 or 2 times)
I never saw the point of sacrificing the turret, but not uprating the firepower. Had the KV7 been fitted with an 85 or 100mm gun, then it might have made sense. Fitting the ML20 into Zveroboy made sense. She be kicking, after all.
No turret means it's smaller, cheaper, lighter and has more armor. Stugs were successful despite its short 75 mm gun hardly being uprate to anything...
@@KuK137 Not really. Stugs only really became the success they were once they were equipped with the long 75mm gun that was mounted on mid-late war Panzer 4's
3:14 - MY EYES! THEY BUUUURN.
Hay its not so bed i seen worse
2:15 End of War Thumper ad.
Thank you friend 😊
so this is the origin of the Soviet Heavy Tank from Command & Conquer: Red Alert
I really can’t wrap my head around why they thought adding the two small guns would help with anything at all. A single one maybe to deal with light vehicles but that arrangement just makes no sense at all.
Yeah, the French did it right with the later versions of the AMX-30, having a coaxial 20mm gun next to the 105.
You forget the inherently authoritarian nature of the Soviet Union. If someone who is high up in the Party says something, you either agree or get disappeared.
Wow I learned a lot from this video! I love this series on niche of obscure tank designs! Dude you have no idea how much it means to me to have someone present this information in a way that’s easy to understand and reliable! I have a request for a tank video though, I think you’d enjoy researching and making a video on this tank! None other than the St. Emil from my fatherland, Sweden! It’s not very talked about much other than in the World of Tanks community I think it deserves a video of its own!
Hard to angle the tank withouth the turet
Thats part of the fun.
Great video!
I’ve always been fascinated with how so many vehicles can be built on the same chassis with minor changes or simple adjustments. Great video as always!
I just clicked on the video but I'm guessing its sponsored by War Thunder? If I'm right you will see an edit.
I F***ING CALLED IT 🤣🤣🤣
cone is a warthunder youtuber lol
Thank you Captain Obvious - what would we do with out you????
Anyone ever tell you you kinda sound like the “how it’s made” guy? Very pleasing voice
1 gun in a well designed turret seems far more practical than 2 or 3 guns in a restrictive casemate.
that looks so goofy, i love it
Love the footage showing the experimental KV-II with the 107 mm gun! Planning a 1:35 model of it...
When 1 is not enough, and 2 is to few, Three KV, hooowl!
The twin gun concept was originally used by the British to deal with torpedo boats as a coastal defense weapon. They had a high rate of fire supposedly of 40 rounds for each gun using 6 pounders. Twin flak 128 mm guns used the same concept for an increased fire rate.
i did run into you in a WT match a few months back lol, funny to hear that
As a historian, my thought is “No idea is a waste of resources if it leads to something better”.
I saw from an obsecure source that Stalin is furious when he saw the SMK tank and demanded the engineers to stop making "supermarkets on tracks" or be gulaged, weird to see him thinking that three cannons on one mantlet is not the same as the SMK.
And now we wait for the snail to give us the twin guns!
It's a typical design progression, surely..? Combat experience was utilised to produce the Heavy Assault Gun series...'SUs'..that proved so essential in the post-1943 developments on the Eastern Front....
The T-34 and KV chassis' provided a basis for development, matched by the equally versatile 'Sherman'...
These machines, for all their faults, proved overwhelmingly successful in the Allied success..
Something we should ALL be thankful for....
I find it so funny seeing interwar and especially soviet tank designs with rear facing machine guns, we're the designers really thinking 'okay so let's imagine the tank is completely surrounded by enemy infantry and continues to fight' I wonder if they were ever actually used
Im so surprised that this was a real vehicle rather a joke vehicle from war thunder, i very much appreciated for the information of the kv-7:]
Thanks for the sponsorship gaijin, but how the hell do you think I ended up here.
To be honest, when I 1st saw that in the channel the iron Armenian, it made think of a modern equivalent but as a SPAAG equipped with an oto melara 3-inch gun and a pair of 40mm bofors l/60 or l/70, *in a full-traverse turret with near 90-degree elevation* on their own mounts so they match their trajectory at any range; & any radar set used by any SPAAG in service
Also can be used as an infantry fire support if situation calls for it
Stalin's volley of fire
Hello brother
Although one thing to consider the early war German tanks were pretty trash in protection especially the lighter Czech tanks and Panzer II, where the 47 mm would still be effective.
It's easy to fall for German propaganda as it is among the most prolific surviving video material of the Wehrmacht that paints them as a hypermobile, unstoppable force of mechanic behemoths when, essentially until the late stage of the war, a lot of the Wehrmacht still used horse-drawn gun carriages and tanks as well as guns taken from Czech and French arsenal's.
I thought the point of the smaller gun would be to provide tracer fire for the main gun using a similar trajectory to increase accuracy.
Just very Soviet to build an entire tank around a gun mount before determining if the mount works or if there’s a viable doctrine for the vehicle's use.
Please do Object 279 I would really enjoy a video on such a vehicle.
3:24 Oh look, R5-D4...
_"Well come on, Red!"_
can you do a video on the astounding kv series and is4? specifically the cancelled vehicles that would continue if Barbarossa never occurer
I may cover the KV-1 relatively soon, not sure about the IS-4 as I need to get some sources translated for that
@@ConeOfArci got extremely interested in the cancelled vehicles ranging from object 220-234, though i’m not sure 234 actually existed
Imagine This Thing Pulling Up At Raseiniai
Not with that fuel they had available.
I think, and this is only for reasons of Soviet logistics, that the multi-caliber solution can have an advantage when you cannot reliably get shells for the newer gun down the logistics chain, but can get the old obsolete ammo.
the fact that this is real boggles my mind lmao
With regard to whether it was worthy of more development? Like you said, it *did* get more development, in the form of the SU-152. But the multi-gun concept was a dead end.
Ah, we cashing in on the Warthunder releases. Not that I mind with this one.
While watching this I cannot help but wonder how many Soviet tank designers wound up in a Gulag.
I knew it's sponsored by WT as soon as I saw KV7 💀☠️
More dakka More dakka
The difference being that if the Orks built this it would work. Most of the flaws go away when you can just solve the problem by believing hard enough.
Stalin and Hitler had one thing in common, Bigger is always better.
eulav propagandaadnagaporp theeht sawwas bothhtob theyyeht guesssseug II
Needs MORE guns
You should do a video on the M50 ONTOS, 2x as many guns as this, and 6 ""spotting"" .50cals plus a commander's .30 cal
It doesn't seem like you've done a video on the Soviet's *really* cursed heavy tank, the T-35 yet? Would love to see that.
I think generally "more" gun on turrets in regards to heavier armaments rarely works out (though adding more anti infantry weaponry I feel is a respectable and understandable decision). More varieties of ammo means less for the primary needed to combat other vehicles of its kind or stronger structure emplacements. More ammo to combat this issue means less room inside the machine and a higher risk of crew loss-age which depending on your nation (in the early years of the war for Soviets not as much, for a nation like Germany its a heavier blow) could be worse then just having the vehicle knocked out. More armor to offset this issue makes the vehicle slower and more difficult to maneuver, usually placing too much stress on the vehicles parts and requiring more frequent repairs. Too heavy and you cant transport by train or by boat or use to cross some bridges, let alone deal with slopes or slog through muddy terrain. And of course, a bigger slower target as the war went on becomes an easier one for artillery and most notably air power.
In short, adding extra guns tends to be a slippery slope especially as the war went on. A single dedicated gun with perhaps different round types, or alternative vehicles to fufill roles it cannot, is just a better investment. They're certainly cool novelties though.
Seems there was a KV tank for just about every design imaginable.
I saw you in a match once! Shame I kept dying early...
what a nice timing "coincidence"
Simply putting the 100mmml or larger guns on these with HE would have been wiser or the ability for turrents or chassis to take a heavier caliber into the future in the design process. Americans and British etc should have learned this too.
1:14 curse of thunder
Should have given it a high velocity 76mm and a 40mm autocannon with a mix of APHE & API
Can you please do a video about the AMX-M4
why nor a single long barrelled A/T gun gun
i play war thunder but... i cant stop playing
So I DID run into you in one of the games...
Calling the Soviet adventures in the Winter War "a success" is one hell of a choice
Well, he said “success” in context of the KV-1. Which is a much more justifiable statement than saying it for the Winter War as a whole.
The KVs performed well. And they won that war, technically.
Well, who won the war?
At least it wasn't giga-tank with dual 280mm gun like Ratte.
This tank will be in Christmas Loot Boxes.
Well...
The entire narrative was aimed @ anti-tank. But, BUT, 2 gun or 3 gun would have been brutal against infantry. No? Review the "Stuge". Many thanx 👍👍
this is in my opinion "die for other" quotes
KV-7 die to make SU-152 ( just like SMK die to make KV-1 )
Soviets: "We need 3 gun turret so everyone knows we ´mean´ it.
i want to try warthunder but my PC is not good enough and my internet is so limited
Plesse next kv 4 🙏
follow up with the is7
Huh weird timing
You should do a video t10/is 10
I literally just quit WT for a second time to play Sea Power and Broken Arrow, why must you give us this lil goober Gaijin (and Cone)
Well one problem with the KV-7 was certainly the 88mm gun which could penetrate over 100mm plate from over 1000m away.
the Flak 88 was'nt fielded as much as a lot believe it was, especialy in 1942, it was quite a rare sight unless you were in the aviation, it was a problem but not The problem, what caused a bigger threat was the long 75mm guns that were fielded on pz4's and later in panther tanks. the 88 saw the most use as an at gun in the western front
How can i use the Bonus as a returning player, the link only brings me to a new registration site.
I think you just put your login information into the registration boxes
One bowl of borscht, extra everything, coming up!
Kv-220 pls
where did the name come from? 7
We all know the KV-7 was the first MBT
Yeah,bring the Soviet modified german tanks!
Su-85i,right?
Or is it Su-76?
I know,it on the chassis of T-III.
I really don’t understand the thought process of having two 47s. I don’t see the advantage to have two of them over just one
Bungow (cursed tank simulator refrence?)
If you learn from a bad idea then it was not a waste of time.
Oh so this is a real vehicle? I was trying to look it up but couldn't find any actual information outside of gamers talking about it.
There aren't too many articles on it but you can learn more about it with the ones I linked in the description
If you don't try, you don't know it's a bad idea
I am still pissed i couldn't get it.
We need the twin 76s in war thunder!
man this content is so good and educationary thanks for your effort :)
How is this not in world of tanks?
The devs are too busy adding stupid fictional stuff with no historical basis.
So do the girls depicted at the end of your videos have names, if so what are they?
Totally ridiculous. Why anyone would think that two different calibers would be good just baffles me. And in the 2 76mm version, it looks like the guns are not even aiming at the same place, they have divergent aim points by 5 degrees.
Never heard of this tank (spg) before, thank you.
Proto Terminator
Maybe if they put 4 guns it'd've worked better😂
Best type of CBD! CBD by COA!
I wouldn’t call the winter war a success
I didn't, I said the KV-1 had success during the winter war