I am a product of the public school system and now homeschool my children. They get the benefit of an education but also time to explore things they love to do. My daughter who is 11 loves all things textile. Sewing, crochet and knitting. My 7 year old son loves all things Lego and engineering. He is constantly taking things apart and putting them back together. Giving my kids the ability to know they can figure something out is gold.
I would say that its parentally dependent tho some people just cant. like this isnt a political slant this is from every1. ive seen people from all walks of life who talk about their parents being unable to work with their kid and trying to beat them into a shape you end up making a broken person or end up making a spiteful one thats still poorly formed
There seems to be a potential problem with home schooling. Many are making a big fuss how the remote learning lock downs had harmed the learning / socialization of many children. Would this not be the same for home schooling?
@@bobroberts2371 Exactly! If I hadn't gone to public school, how could I have faced all the bullying that the teachers did nothing about, the lazy teachers that just showed up for a pay check and didn't put any effort into making learning interesting, or even the ones that pushed a far left agenda and punished students that didn't agree with that. Those poor home schooled kids are missing out on so much!
@@RogCBrand All of what you described occur out in the adult world. While not optimal, a public school allows one to be exposed to and deal with many personalities just like in the real world. Are you saying that those whom claim remote learning lock down kids suffered learning / socialization issues are making this up?
We homeschooled our two boys all the way through high school. So worth it! They are hard working men with their own families now. Very proud of them!!❤
Your guest is right on the mark. While not quite down to quitting and needing a GED, I was close. Let's just say I made the top 75% of my class possible. Then, while working, getting drafted, working, starting a family and buying my first 2 homes, I worked for 10 years on my Associate Degree and got it. Meanwhile I had 10 years of work/ life experience behind me. From what I've seen over these last 55 years, I ended up, in so many ways, ahead of those classmates that went straight into college. 🇺🇸 And oh BTW, the last thing I want to do now is pay their college debt.
OMG!! This is so my life!! I graduated from high school with a 1.7 GPA....hated high school. Went on to become an accountant and now am the deputy clerk/treasurer of a small city in Northern Wisconsin.
In 8th, 9th, and 10th grade, I consistently received failing grades, impacting both my motivation to learn and my self-image. A teacher even conveyed to my father that I lacked the aptitude to ever learn algebra. In response, my dad transferred me from a school with traditional teaching methods to one that prioritized individualized education. I repeated 10th grade, and the transformation was remarkable. My grades soared from Fs to B+s. I excelled in Algebra I and II, Geometry, and Trigonometry, finally grasping English grammar concepts. This school significantly changed, and in a way saved my life. Subsequently, I pursued a degree in Education, returned to teach at that same school, and dedicated 13 years to education. It's important to note that while individualized education has its challenges, I remain steadfast in my belief that it is the most effective approach. Children vary widely, and one-size-fits-all educational systems risk leaving some behind.
Teaching on the front lines for 15 years, my wife says the primary issue is that the kids aren’t accountable so they can disrupt the class constantly and nothing can be done. This is young grade school and not inner city.
@@p4inmaker well then they arrive bored and uninspired since it can start before class even begins. And in any event what kind of excuse is that? I’m bored and uninspired yet I’m not stabbing other kids with pencils and eating staples. What’s become of minimum acceptable behavior?
@@jrbergsten weird since the only time my grandson has been in trouble at school is because he’s finished all his work and the teacher won’t allow him to do anything but sit at his desk and literally do nothing. Not allowed to draw, or read. Just sit. For years that’s how it’s been for him, elementary and middle school. He’d have a decent teacher every once in a while, a couple in middle school teachers would let him wear headphones so he didn’t have to listen to the other kids. For the most part the teachers were idiots. This is a very well respected school district, when people move to our area they specifically move to our city for the schools (I live in a large metropolitan area population over 7 million). He’s in AP classes in high school, the teachers actually don’t let the kids get bored 🤷♀️
Retired state educational leader here. The system is 100% broken. From the earliest Kindergarten class thru the doctoral programs , the entire educational business is flawed and outdated. In Idaho, we tried moving away from the traditional establishment school programs of the past 90 years towards a mastery based educational system focused on the individual. It failed miserably for many reasons to include: Parents not understanding that the old system doesn’t work Teachers not wanting to move to a system based on the individual student Legislatures unwilling to fund a move away from traditional settings School headers not willing to make the move. We know what’s needed but we the American people need to demand this!
Mastery based learning can be hard to understand but it is a better system for many students. Why can't kids and families be able to choose between the two (time based and mastery based) for their school experience? Check out Sal Khan's explanation of mastery based learning on TH-cam if you want to learn more. 💪
I could not agree more! I have 2 sons with very high IQ's who did poorly in public schools because they were bored by the slow pace. I also had been bored by the pace in school but being a people pleaser I became an over achiever but my boys did the opposite. When I homeschooled my youngest he excelled.
With Lexdixia and ADHD (AND my Dad moved us every year in grade school) I was constantly told I was a failure in school. It damaged my self-esteem. It took decades to learn to value my qualities and accept my short comings thanks to our failed education system. I started my own business as an Interior Designer which I learned by doing, grew my business to a comfortable level and LOVE my work. It took 33 years to get here but finally, it gave me self esteem. Save our children!!
One of my kids was identified as being gifted at his school. But the schools in my area have done aways with gifted education and put everything towards the kids at the bottom. This is how we fall behind the rest of the world.
I like aspects of Khan Academy. But, there does need to be a uniting thread through education so we have a shared understanding of ourselves as a nation. And, some kids need a classroom--one of my kiddos struggled with homeschooling whereas my other were fine. The greater degree of structure and other kids learning the same stuff at the same time in person was better. Online is rather depersonalized because there won't be a relationship with a good teacher who can consider good individualized project ideas with students. Everything seems to be getting driven towards individualized everything as though that is somehow better. What is being lost or forgotten? It seems just another swing to an extreme rather than a balancing of beneficial elements.
As someone who has a learning disability I totally agree that one size fits all education doesn’t work. I really struggled in school not even one on one help for those of us who learn hands on & it’s getting worse. Thanks your talking about it Mike
Mike i so much agree with you. I think we are fellow Baltimorons. I was at Bethlehem Steel at Sparrows Point I've been a welder, and my family on both sides were into welding
I love this episode. Dropped out in 10th grade. Later in life had the opportunity to go back to school. 3.9 GPA 2 degrees and a very successful career 30 years later. I agree with everything said
One problem is that too few 25 year olds who do poorly in school get a second chance at school. The great thing about the GI Bill students after WW2 was that at 25 they were men, while at 18 they were still children.
My husband failed algebra twice in high school 😜 Found that the majority of his English teachers weren’t as well read as him, and for some reason school made history boring But, it turned out as a young adult he found out that if you put a dollar sign in front of the numbers he could put together P& L’s and all kinds of information for the company he worked for - worked his way up to CEO of a multinational (when he became President he expanded to countries outside the U.S.) publicly owned company with approximately 1,000 employees.
This is such an excellent clip. The whole conversation was insightful. I have a brilliant friend whose homeschooling work did for her learning challenged son what no public school could have. Yet in 4th I did experience a school so poor in CA that as a 4th grader I had the epiphany as to how teens could graduate without the ability to read. It still shocks me that it was real.
I know that this is supposed to be a bash on the general learning systems in schools, but I find extreme positivity and the fact that there were two people in Todd's life that saw potential in him and gave him a chance. God bless those educators who put Todd into the honors! There are still some great people who are teaching out there and get it!
That is one reason our daughter was homeschooled. She was getting into trouble because, she would not transition from one class activity to the next activity. She would focus on one and be doing fine, then have to transition. She started not focusing on any topic and lost her learning ability. With home schooling, she could focus on one subject for half a day then do another topic for half and day, but complete all the work for one week in half a day. By the end of the week, she completed every topic for the entire week. She now has 2 college degrees in a 5 year span and working two jobs related to her degrees!
I’m in Australia and was private schooled, same for my daughter. We have a range of public schools here, some great some very not great, but I’m very thankful that any kid here who wants learn can absolutely have every opportunity to achieve great things. Problem we have is kids who (through theirs or their parents faults) just don’t care
I can relate to Todd immensely. I was a D student until I got into a free form honors program where I excelled. I was then forced back into the cookie cutter and ended my education. I’ve had several jobs and one in R+D was great until the department was reorganized out of existence. While there I made more then one contribution that is involved in every person watching this video. Now I drive a fork lift which wouldn’t be bad if my boss wasn’t an idiot who in his infinite wisdom treats me like an idiot. The money is very good, but I’m working my way to the next adventure in my life.
I took three different personality tests. All three came back I am an ENTJ. I looked up the best jobs for an ENTJ and none of them would describe me at all. For a year and a half I researched ENTJ people. Turns out a lot of my troubles with jobs and boredom were true because of my personality. And now I'm back in school to get a degree that's suited for my personality. My GPA barely passed high school standards for graduation. I'm now pulling a 4.0. And I'm not a young man anymore. I'm turning 40 this year. But I never gave up on myself for trying to figure out why I never liked a lot of the jobs I did.
The Meyers Briggs “test” is voodoo at best. Using it as a valid personality assessment in hiring is illegal according to the EEOC. Using assessments in hiring requires an acute job analysis which then is used to compare candidates.
Mike Please , Please do a piece on the broken system of job recruiters / hiring managers / HR hiring departments that only look to see if column A matches column B because they don't understand what they are hiring for and can't spot talent that just happens NOT to have a degree / certificate. I have first hand experience ( and stories ) about how difficult it is to get past a gate keeper to someone that actually needs the skill which leads to positive results.
Love❣️ Both my now adult offspring did not flourish in the system, did not finish highschool. I couldn’t be more proud of them… one a self taught artist (including tattoos) with many other interests and abilities… the other a heavy equipment operator who also likes to study philosophy, economics, +++.
I had to switch to home schooling just so I can get through middle school and of course high school. I hated it so much but they didnt help me in school. I have bad ADHD and they just stuck me in a special class and wrote me off. I had a really hard time getting through school that I just didnt care at all. I made it through school with a 3.13 gpa because I could focus, I got helped outside of the school down the street. Now Im going to college classes to become an automotive tech. I love to do it and Im good at it so its time to put it to work. Im the ones that got lucky and be good at my passion.
Hey Mikey! I liked! I liked the video a lot! So many things to comment on. Todd and you, Mikey are on the right foot for sure. For a reboot and redesign of public education. Thank you for all that you and your team do, Mikey, Gabe Kotter, where are you now??? Cheers. Mate.
This was me...HS 1.95gpa, then 2 years later...3.54gpa in THE hardest Nursing school in the area with 100% board pass rate......32 years later....I LOVE my profession.❤
I was constantly challenged in elementary school because the teachers in that district were allowed/encouraged to separate the kids into groups by ability. Then we moved and I was bored to tears throughout middle school. Complete waste of time. High school was better because, once again, I could be in a "separate" class. Looking back, I'm so glad I had the elementary years that I did😊
This is how I am, I learn better in small group where discussions are encouraged, I love church don’t misunderstand but if you ask what was taught/preached more than likely I won’t be able to answer unless I have a little conversation about what’s being taught/preached with the person beside me during class/service. Which is frowned upon anywhere I just used church as an example, because talking causes a distraction especially in church. I hated when I had classes at Tech where I had to be silent, I ended up hearing the teacher from Charley Brown talking. Which I did horrible in those classes, where as the classes that had interaction I learned and passed with no problem.
I'm a boomer high school graduate. No college I worked summer from the 11years old and I continued through high school. And I always had my own money. Had many different jobs and I learned at all of them the younger guys can do it to. It's not easy but it will make you take a little pride in that witch you have done
I worked for a major truck company from 1987 to 2008. I went thru a apprenticeship program. I was a welder and sheet metal fabricator. Then became a lead over 2 shops. When everything went bad in 2008, My counsler wanted me to go to school to be a coder. That wasnt me. I went to a Appliance and Refrigeration repair school. I finished at the top of my class after 2 years. Since 2012, I have been more than busy. In my line of work, I have found we have holidays that cooking is a very big part of holiday. I spent an afternoon in a kitchen replacing an element in a wall oven. This was for Passover. I also spent time in customers homes for Ramadan, Easter, Christmas etc. Oh and yes, that was part of class. Instructor went over holidays during a class and how cooking is important.
My son who barely made it through high school now has a degree in anthropology and graduated with honors and is now in his second year of law school at Notre Dame. My daughter also had a hard time in high school and ended up quitting and getting her GED. She now owns her own painting company. 😁 And I never went to college and have owned my own business for more than 9 years. So I don't think high school taught me or my children much😂
My Son tries so hard in high school. Quit college and joined the Army because he gave up. He now is a Cyber Security Engineer with 2 master degrees and working on another. It is so Awesome to see
Owning a business doesn’t equate to success. 80% of “business owners” don’t make a profit higher than $1k/mo and even more than that lose money rather than make anything
Many of us learn by doing, not just theory as is taught in most schools. I believe you have to have basic knowledge like reading and math. I was a blacksmith for almost fifty years. I needed the math background to do most of my projects but also the imagination to see in my mind how everything fit together and then create it. I had a job I loved and it took me places I couldn't have dreamed about. I made stuff for the space program to projects in the homes of the very wealthy. Education today is made to put people in certain boxes and not to think except in that box. I brought my kids up to explore their interests and get their education in it. Both are very successful in their chosen fields because they had the freedom to explore.
I remember being a teaching assistant at the University of Missouri. I always gave essays instead of multiple choice questions. I couldn't even read most of their answers and these were senior. I was floored and the students didn't even know how to write complete sentences. I went to the head of the department but no one cared. They only cared if they passed all of their students.
At UT-Austin back in the 60s,TA’s who graded blue-books for honors classes found that even though the classes were made up of top 10 students from public schools, that there many bright students who could not construct a decent paragraph.
its not going to help if anything the government is at least theoretically, THEORETICALLY responsible to the population. the private sector in education already takes what it can and then sees if it can finagle another couple dollars from your pocket while trimming as much as it can off the program
There needs to be some balance. No Child Left Behind tried to standardize everything and tied funding to test scores. So teaching became teaching to the test and more standardized. The government funded the public school system long before it became the issue it is today. If you ask people that went through it 35+ years ago (before NCLB), it's clear there has been a huge shift (negatively) since that law went into effect. Also, parents becoming less involved, blaming teachers for their student's actions, and reducing punishment for serious problems have added fuel to the fire.
That'll never completely happen. Did you zone out while watching the above video clip? Were you not paying attention at all? The gov. loved that guys idea so much, that's why they implemented it in school. OUR WHOLE F--king society, by which I mean "Economy" is based loosely around that dudes ideas.. When Todd Ross was talking about living in the guys "Shadow"... he was spot on.
If govt gets out of education, just how would you know that the school you are sending your kids to is any good? And don't say that there will be some sort of organization that accredits the schools as this is a form of government.
@@bobroberts2371 How do you yourself determine if any product is good? Short answer is like any sensible individual you research, hear by word of mouth, see the product in use by a individual you associate with or all of the above, our ability to mass communicate with one another is far more effective at determining product worth than a government rubber stamp of approval. The government has no place in that process so why do you feel it needs to be involved in schooling exactly? From my own experience and I'd imagine many others experiences as well, in the moment the government touches anything it falls a part and fails by every quantifiable metric or in the best case scenario it moderately functions, but turns into a never ending money hole that barely manages to deliver adequate results, people whom advocate for the government to be involved with anything always trigger the memory in me of Reagan's speech in which he says the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" and by any reasonable look at any evidence that quote holds true. If we treat schools like any other product in the capital market then the schools will naturally sort themselves, parents will no doubt gravitate to the schools whom deliver the best outcomes for their students and the ones that fail to meet the benchmark of parents expectations will fail. This is not a foreign concept by any means in America, I mean how do you think our Ivy League schools got their start and reputation in the first place? I'll give you a hint it wasn't due to government involvement and all of them were established long before government got involved in the education system to begin with, so why could we not use that very same model by which the Ivy Leagues built themselves on and apply it to the whole education apparatus?
I wanted to teach after a 20 year Navy career. Part of my college classes was shadowing and interviewing an active teacher. I shadowed a new elementary teacher that was having a tough time because of all those little personalities for 6 hours a day. I interviewed a 30 year teacher that was about to retire. My first question was “What advice would you give to a new teacher?” He said, “Pick a different career. The Department of Education testing and reporting takes away too many hours from actually teaching. They mandate subject matters not age appropriate or applicable to a region. Teachers can’t teach the way they know best or individualize their lessons. The “no child left behind” policy places special needs students in main stream classrooms and can be disruptive or distractive to the other students. Most schools do not hold students accountable for violent behavior and many teachers and students end up injuried or worse. School districts focus on the payment per student attendance per day they receive often forcing ill students to stay at least till the half day point.” In closing he said pick any other career but teaching, it is not what it was when he started in the early 70’s. He managed to miss 3 days work in 30 years. When he retired the school paid him for the almost 300 sick days he didn’t use. That is no longer policy in that district.
To me school was something to get through. I did enjoy learning and still do. Other than one class in highschool I failed do to complete lack of interest, I scored in the upper third percentile on the stupid tests. I helped other kids to improve and understand the work expected by the teachers. I have seen the stupidest changes in education that managed to confuse the kids doing well and drop them down to being equal to the kids they had been able to help so everyone struggled. Experts are the nemesis of learning. I had some teachers who were truly innovative in that they worked hard to help the kids in their classes. They worked to understand the problem and find solutions that worked. Never attended college. Completed a data processing course with a computer programming course in the middle. Love programs like Dirty Jobs and Mike's other programs because I learn things I didn't know before. When I was 18 I met a friend's grandma and out of the blue she asked me, "Well. What do YOU know?" My response was, "I know a little bit about a lot of things but not one hell of a lot about any one thing in particular,"
In HS, I failed pre-algebra and joined the US Navy for 5 yrs. After that BBQ called Nam, I became a Machinist/Engineer and spent the next 42+ yrs doing complex math, Trig and Calc everyday. Go figure. I got my degree in Mechanical Engineering and love what I do for work.
I was a straight-A student from elementary on up through high school, and while part of that is smarts, my motivation was always "do what you have to so you can get out of here." In high school, I remember being annoyed at teachers who would praise my writing skills, because in reality I was writing only what I knew they wanted to hear which didn't require creativity, only regurgitation. It's all about appeasing teachers. My parents gave in and homeschooled me for a partial year and it was paradise. I felt like I was free to learn and free to follow what sparked interest in me. I had a fascination for Eastern religious studies and creative writing and art. Then I was put back in school since there was no one to stay home with me. Back to appeasing, back to being bullied. I homeschool my own kids now.
I had no idea what i wanted to do but i knew for a fact i didn't want college. Because of having a dept. There was a chance call from my cousin that a guy he knew needed help. He was a contractor. I knew nothing but how to read a tape measure. I learned on the job. Did 6-7 years straight, 20+ total of and on. I went into warehousing because of benefits. Now I'm in the manufacturing of glassware. (Food) I love warehouse work and i loved construction. I now make 60k+ a year with no debt and a mortgage free homeowner. Also buy and sell, mainly shoes buy I'll sell anything.
i wish i thought hard about college. i was just going with the flow. Doing ok now with a college degree but wish i was more intentional with my decision.
This is almost my story. Could not stand public school, even had a teacher raise my grade to get me out of his class. I have done numerous jobs, some crappy pay, some good. But I found out I am great running machines and working with my hands. Now I am a trucker which I love and make more than probably 75% of the people. That is the answer for everyone. Find what gets you up in the morning and makes you happy. Material things are nothing, if you get up and are happy to go to your job/career, then you have it. Oh, my favorite saying, If I wake up and still breathing, it's a great day.
Look at all these comments - and Every Single One of them are VALID! I do hope, Mike and Professor Rose, that you are letting the congressmen/women of every state possible to encourage new teaching/educational life skills to explore all arenas. However, the fundamentals of reading and actually writing real sentences with correct usage and spelling, knowing how to read and write cursive (it's becoming a lost art) and knowing how to do math on paper with only a pencil and eraser! (I hate that last one!)
Good day Sir, Please have a look at Trevor Eissler Montessori Madness video . I have three children ages 21, 17, 13. All three went to Montessori from K-8. At the open house of the middle school one of the teachers said" I will not prepare your child for High School, I will prepare them for Collage because I don't know what they will get in High School. And they did. My oldest is graduating this year with a degree in Mechanical Engineering, the middle one is a 4.0 student, and the youngest is doing Pre-Engineering next year. All three learn in different ways, and speeds. Montessori works!
'How did we get to ...factory protocols'. Because that's how so many of us make our living. With swing shifts/constant mandatory OT/working late/weekends etc. less time and energy for the things that matter.
W. Edwards Deming: "People are born with intrinsic motivation, self-esteem, dignity, curiosity to learn, joy in learning." Deming was instrumental of bringing Japanese industry from the rubble of post WWII to the powerhouse it is now. After reading Todd Rowe's book, read some of Deming's
7:40 Now, that right there is what puts lie to the argument I hear a lot. That "no one forced you to go to college or get those loans you can't pay." Not at gunpoint, or anything like that, no, but the _expectation_ was so prevalent that I don't think anyone living under that highly regimented education system for 12-13 years of their life (the most _formative_ years of their life, no less) would even think to question that they were going to college and getting a degree and anything else was a failure since that's the dichotomy of "choice" presented.
I dropped out in 11th grade the 2nd time. I was asked to leave the school my 1st round with 11th grade. I had a math teacher that told me to my face that she was going to fail me no matter what I did. I could take a test and pass it but she'd fail me. My counselor was booked until May. 🙄 No point in staying knowing I would fail so I walked out and never went back. Got my GED and made the 2nd highest grade out of 19 people and I didn't study for it at all. I can't stand being micromanaged because I will do the job the way it's supposed to be done whether I'm in a group or on my own. The public school system now is the same as it was 40 yrs ago. Just the names and faces have changed. 😕
I'm doing my part, I filled my list of channels with obscure ASL teachers, to get the good info out there, there's a few big channels that move their lips more than their hands, a lot of small ones are soooo much better, it only makes sense, but the bad channels' greatest skill is flooding youtube, this applies to a lot of things, as you may have seen in other places, again, I do my part to help~
Now this is what we need more people brainstorming on how to fix instead of focusing on complaining and blaming which wastes time and is unproductive...
I feel like the educational system as it stands fails a significant number of students. I’m partially homeschooling my high schooler because everything around us is college prep and her artsy brain doesn’t fit with the high math and science standards expected of every high schooler. It’s frustrating and hard to walk a different path than the one I was taught.
It's all about the money. There's a small elementary school near my home that was scheduled to be closed. Someone in the school district with clout actually got the small school to acquire the vacant parcel of land next to it and more than double the size of the school. It is presently in the process of being expanded as I type. Parents are rushing to get their children enrolled into this school as proficiency rates are really high. When my son was a wee little one, I had him on a two year waiting list just to get him into the best private school pre-school program in my community. All that cost was well worth it.
Puplic school was a nightmare when I attended and it seems to have just gone downhill ever since. It wasn't the other students who were the problem but teachers who had tenure and weren't interested any more, if they ever had, in teaching anyone anything. Add in teachers who only taught because all sport coaches were required to teach even though they hated teaching. Other teachers could teach but couldn't maintain discipline in the overcrowded classrooms. I was failing miserably until one, totally awesome teacher arranged for me to do independent study. I thank God for Mr Menz every day as I would never have succeeded in life without his guidance.
I am the same as Mr. Rose. I did not finish high school My GPA was the same as his or lower for not attending. School was boring. At the age of 25 I walked into a GED testing facility off the street. And pass my GED. I passed it so good I was in the top percentile of my classes if I would have graduated with the diploma. I learned a lot more in real world experience than I ever would have in school. Part of dropping out of school was I had to have a job. But it taught me a lot more than school ever did.
I went to private school, not saying I gained nothing but I graduated then fell into the college trap and graduated with absolutely no marketable skills at all. But then I found construction and did great!!!
Live in the burbs. No problems with my kids in public school. We have tutors to fill in the gap. I would never homeschool my kids. I went to a private school and it was a waste of time and money.
I was very fortunate to know what I wanted to do in life at around 16 when I stumbled across the word "Computer Programming". I did not go to college but instead graduated from a 2 year "Technical Institute" with a degree in Computer Programming in 1974 ... 43 years later I retired never having worked a day in my life ... I could not believe companies were willing to pay me BIG money just to play all day long programming computers ... LOL
Here is the counterargument: today, we educate everyone. So many of these discussions completely gloss over this fact. Yes, education was more individualized before standardization. But it also resulted in far fewer people receiving an education, either to the high school level or altogether. And maybe individualizing education is the right way forward. But such a system is almost certain to be more costly, and we can forget about the idea that people will no longer be left behind.
I heard a pastor say this once: "People ask me all the time, pastor what does God want me to do with my life? And I say, I don't know I'm not God, but if you have passion talent, and opportunity for something, that might be a good fit. And something God made you to do."
I think issue one is the standardized testing. My father-in-law is a retired business professor. Whether it's evaluating student progress or teacher proficiency, standardized testing is an easy, but poor way to evaluate. Problem two is the pushing of STEM. I used to be a practicing lawyer. The classes that best prepared me for law school weren't math and science. The beat classes were English and history. The practice of law requires a lawyer to express himself, both verbally and on paper. Frankly, researching a legal question is a form of historical research. I think the third issue is tracking. Schools are loathe to do that particularly at younger ages, because parents get mad, if kids aren't in fast tracks. But, back in the 60s and 70s, my elementary school district had fast, medium, and slow tracks for reading, language arts, and math. My high had 3, 4, and 5 tracks for various subjects, from Fundamentals to Honors.
It amazing that if a student excels really excels the system then treats them as an individual. They then are allowed to earn at their own speed. Graduate school early sometimes with college credits or even a degree.
Have you seen the recent report that came out post pandemic documenting the link between in person school attendance and child suicide rates? That's the worst thing that is happening with regard to our school system. The study is by NBER, the national bureau of economic research. I'll share the link in a separate comment.
I have been a high school teacher for 30 years. Education in the U.S. is not one size fits all. That's a myth. Education in the the U.S. offers all sorts of classes in welding, science, art, math, history, cooking, machining, programing, and a thousand other things. We teach using books, lectures, videos, discussion, white boards, paper and PowerPoints. We offer all sorts of way to learn. Here is the thing. Ultimately the kid has to reach out and grab it. The best teacher in the world can only lead a horse to water, he cannot make him drink. Mr. Rose was a late bloomer. His 0.9 was on him and no one else. His early failures are no more an indictment on education than a drunk driver having a wreck is on indictment on Ford. Mr. Rose was just the kind of kid that had to suffer first. A lot of kids are like that. The problem is most of them don't have the IQ of Mr. Rose and they wait to long to smarten up. This is not a systemic problem. This is an individual problem. It just seems systemic because there are so many individuals who are failing..
Todd breezed over 'I got my GED'. A Teacher helped you (someone made a workbook to study) Some children need to grow up before they learn what most nerds or girls love in grade school.
They're only two problems with the education system in the United states. One, there's an oversight committee that tells you exactly what you should teach, how you need to teach for what test, and what information people need to know. Because it's all based on stats and stats or how schools get money. Number two, teachers are incredibly underpaid. When you can only offer someone $40,000 a year and they're supposed to spend all that time and know all that stuff and have all that responsibility and stress, you end up with a lower quality of person who's willing to accept that for that amount of pay.
Lower quality of person? Really? Not everyone does what they do just for the money. And not everyone out here earning $40,000/year is a low quality person. I had some truly great teachers growing up and I know several personally, and I’d say at least 85% do the job because they love it. Money is not a deciding factor. Bring in teachers pay, and who couldn’t use more? That’s a no-brainer. I earn less than most teachers, raised three kids, own a home, have zero debt, drive a 10 year old car, put myself through college in my 30’s, graduated with high honors. You know what I do? Im a warehouse picker. Does that make me low quality? Im doing something I enjoy and I make enough to get by. I’m happy.
My public school experience in the 80's and 90's was that about 80% of the teachers did a poor job and half of those had quiet quit back before that was a phrase. Teachers aren't held accountable. (thanks teachers unions!) The other half of the equation is that much less than half of the students would actively participate. It was always the same ~5 or 6 kids in a class of 25-30 who would raise their hands to answer. It was always a different set of 5-6 that always held up the class and needed extra help.
@@RogCBrand My mom was a teacher, so I got to hear about it daily, in great detail, for many years. What I learned from her matches what yackablejohnson said perfectly. She wasn't in a union. I'll go further and say unions have had a lot to do with ruining public education. But saying that if you offer more money, you get get better people (on average!) is just true. It's not some union talking point.
I definitely wasn’t the greatest student because I didn’t find what we were learning that interesting unless it was about animals or psychology or history so in classes with those is when I paid attention. I don’t really use much of the other stuff in my career I learned in school, but I use knowledge about animals and psychology. I’m a dog groomer so my knowledge on animals is used for that, and my knowledge on psychology I use to monitor their behavior and how to work with them better based on how they might be feeling. I was interested in history but don’t use it in my career, so I turned that interest into a hobby on visiting and learning about ghost towns and their history.
I believe that the attitude of kids now is a a lack of communication at home and nobody does any discipline of there kids. Plus the teacher's of my time were very old and I truly felt like they wanted to teach us. All of the teachers now are in their 20 -30s and they don't have the drive that the older teacher's don't have
School was boring AF. I started out all A's, honor roll. Into advanced AVID program by early middleschool. Then AVID got closed because there was only one teacher who was qualified to teach it. Then I got dropped back into normal classes where they were teaching stuff i had learned 2 years prior and i never gave a **** again. Bored. Stopped going. Right before I had to leave for basic training for the Army I did my last year and a half of highschool on a conputer at Votec in like 3 months, got my diploma (Ive never seen it, guess they sent it to the army) and when they called my name for graduation I was already three weeks into basic training. Worked for my self in construction since I got out, make 3x more than everyone I know my age (30) who is an employee. No student debt, cars paid off, no credit cards, have my own house in one of the wealthiest counties in Fl. (Part of why i make good money, wealthy older clients) and I would never higher someone with a college degree. Didnt even attend last half of highschool, barely passed middle school and first two years of highschool, no degree. What a joke.
You should have more that one tool in the toolbox (a phrase Mike Rowe would appreciate). Yes, there should be a path to identify and address the needs of the hyper individualistic guest but most people are average (by definition) and the standardized system is a good use of limited resources and can deliver an adequate education. Also on the spectrum are people who will still drop out of any system. There are roles for private and public education. The trick is directing people along the right path or providing the freedom for people to choose their own path. Maybe 20-25% of eligible high school graduates would benefit from college. Business needs to stop requiring college degrees where are not relevant to the work and maybe think about on the job training and apprenticeships.
Grade numbers assigned to a kids age is something that always bothered me. All these issues have been known for decades. This all has to be intentional
I don't have the actual figures to definitely true, but I think there are more an more a group of people benefiting from vocational programs. I think there are also others that are simply finding online careers where there actually managing their own lives, rather than chasing the corporate grind. A lot of the jobs that used to be "careers" (used to be synomous with a life's work), are not treated like that anymore and filled by contract work so the corporations don't have to support pensions and health care. I did well in school, but observant enough to know the education is an assembly line that's nothing but torture for a lot of people.
I am a product of the public school system and now homeschool my children. They get the benefit of an education but also time to explore things they love to do. My daughter who is 11 loves all things textile. Sewing, crochet and knitting. My 7 year old son loves all things Lego and engineering. He is constantly taking things apart and putting them back together. Giving my kids the ability to know they can figure something out is gold.
I would say that its parentally dependent tho
some people just
cant. like this isnt a political slant this is from every1. ive seen people from all walks of life who talk about their parents being unable to work with their kid and trying to beat them into a shape
you end up making a broken person or end up making a spiteful one thats still poorly formed
You're a freaking awesome parent! I wish 1 of my parents had taken that initiative. Public school for me was literal hell.
There seems to be a potential problem with home schooling. Many are making a big fuss how the remote learning lock downs had harmed the learning / socialization of many children. Would this not be the same for home schooling?
@@bobroberts2371 Exactly! If I hadn't gone to public school, how could I have faced all the bullying that the teachers did nothing about, the lazy teachers that just showed up for a pay check and didn't put any effort into making learning interesting, or even the ones that pushed a far left agenda and punished students that didn't agree with that. Those poor home schooled kids are missing out on so much!
@@RogCBrand All of what you described occur out in the adult world. While not optimal, a public school allows one to be exposed to and deal with many personalities just like in the real world.
Are you saying that those whom claim remote learning lock down kids suffered learning / socialization issues are making this up?
We homeschooled our two boys all the way through high school. So worth it! They are hard working men with their own families now. Very proud of them!!❤
Your guest is right on the mark.
While not quite down to quitting and needing a GED, I was close.
Let's just say I made the top 75% of my class possible.
Then, while working, getting drafted, working, starting a family and buying my first 2 homes, I worked for 10 years on my Associate Degree and got it.
Meanwhile I had 10 years of work/ life experience behind me. From what I've seen over these last 55 years, I ended up, in so many ways, ahead of those classmates that went straight into college. 🇺🇸
And oh BTW, the last thing I want to do now is pay their college debt.
OMG!! This is so my life!! I graduated from high school with a 1.7 GPA....hated high school. Went on to become an accountant and now am the deputy clerk/treasurer of a small city in Northern Wisconsin.
Thanks Mike for all your work all these years, helping the common worker class... that makes things operate
In 8th, 9th, and 10th grade, I consistently received failing grades, impacting both my motivation to learn and my self-image. A teacher even conveyed to my father that I lacked the aptitude to ever learn algebra. In response, my dad transferred me from a school with traditional teaching methods to one that prioritized individualized education. I repeated 10th grade, and the transformation was remarkable. My grades soared from Fs to B+s. I excelled in Algebra I and II, Geometry, and Trigonometry, finally grasping English grammar concepts. This school significantly changed, and in a way saved my life. Subsequently, I pursued a degree in Education, returned to teach at that same school, and dedicated 13 years to education.
It's important to note that while individualized education has its challenges, I remain steadfast in my belief that it is the most effective approach. Children vary widely, and one-size-fits-all educational systems risk leaving some behind.
Teaching on the front lines for 15 years, my wife says the primary issue is that the kids aren’t accountable so they can disrupt the class constantly and nothing can be done. This is young grade school and not inner city.
my sister says about the same. high school is uhhh
an interesting place lol
They disrupt the class because they are bored and uninspired.
@@p4inmaker well then they arrive bored and uninspired since it can start before class even begins. And in any event what kind of excuse is that? I’m bored and uninspired yet I’m not stabbing other kids with pencils and eating staples. What’s become of minimum acceptable behavior?
@@jrbergsten weird since the only time my grandson has been in trouble at school is because he’s finished all his work and the teacher won’t allow him to do anything but sit at his desk and literally do nothing. Not allowed to draw, or read. Just sit. For years that’s how it’s been for him, elementary and middle school.
He’d have a decent teacher every once in a while, a couple in middle school teachers would let him wear headphones so he didn’t have to listen to the other kids. For the most part the teachers were idiots.
This is a very well respected school district, when people move to our area they specifically move to our city for the schools (I live in a large metropolitan area population over 7 million).
He’s in AP classes in high school, the teachers actually don’t let the kids get bored 🤷♀️
Look at the food we eat... just that alone...
Retired state educational leader here.
The system is 100% broken. From the earliest Kindergarten class thru the doctoral programs , the entire educational business is flawed and outdated.
In Idaho, we tried moving away from the traditional establishment school programs of the past 90 years towards a mastery based educational system focused on the individual. It failed miserably for many reasons to include:
Parents not understanding that the old system doesn’t work
Teachers not wanting to move to a system based on the individual student
Legislatures unwilling to fund a move away from traditional settings
School headers not willing to make the move.
We know what’s needed but we the American people need to demand this!
In the public schools the teachers are the least valued elements.
Mastery based learning can be hard to understand but it is a better system for many students. Why can't kids and families be able to choose between the two (time based and mastery based) for their school experience? Check out Sal Khan's explanation of mastery based learning on TH-cam if you want to learn more. 💪
Thank you so much for this episode Mike. The education system here in Canada is also struggling. I am sharing this with everyone I possibly can.❤
I could not agree more! I have 2 sons with very high IQ's who did poorly in public schools because they were bored by the slow pace. I also had been bored by the pace in school but being a people pleaser I became an over achiever but my boys did the opposite. When I homeschooled my youngest he excelled.
With Lexdixia and ADHD (AND my Dad moved us every year in grade school) I was constantly told I was a failure in school. It damaged my self-esteem. It took decades to learn to value my qualities and accept my short comings thanks to our failed education system. I started my own business as an Interior Designer which I learned by doing, grew my business to a comfortable level and LOVE my work. It took 33 years to get here but finally, it gave me self esteem. Save our children!!
One of my kids was identified as being gifted at his school. But the schools in my area have done aways with gifted education and put everything towards the kids at the bottom. This is how we fall behind the rest of the world.
Perfectly said. Finding fulfillment through servitude.
The secretary for the Honors Program is always awesome! ❤
Thanks, Todd! The more people who hear your message of individuality, the closer we get to Sal Khan style, individualized education.
I like aspects of Khan Academy. But, there does need to be a uniting thread through education so we have a shared understanding of ourselves as a nation. And, some kids need a classroom--one of my kiddos struggled with homeschooling whereas my other were fine. The greater degree of structure and other kids learning the same stuff at the same time in person was better. Online is rather depersonalized because there won't be a relationship with a good teacher who can consider good individualized project ideas with students. Everything seems to be getting driven towards individualized everything as though that is somehow better. What is being lost or forgotten? It seems just another swing to an extreme rather than a balancing of beneficial elements.
As someone who has a learning disability I totally agree that one size fits all education doesn’t work. I really struggled in school not even one on one help for those of us who learn hands on & it’s getting worse. Thanks your talking about it Mike
Mike Rowe for education secretary!
Mike i so much agree with you. I think we are fellow Baltimorons. I was at Bethlehem Steel at Sparrows Point
I've been a welder, and my family on both sides were into welding
Todd hit the nail totally thanks Mike for listening to others you are a great role model
I love this episode. Dropped out in 10th grade. Later in life had the opportunity to go back to school. 3.9 GPA 2 degrees and a very successful career 30 years later. I agree with everything said
One problem is that too few 25 year olds who do poorly in school get a second chance at school. The great thing about the GI Bill students after WW2 was that at 25 they were men, while at 18 they were still children.
My husband failed algebra twice in high school 😜 Found that the majority of his English teachers weren’t as well read as him, and for some reason school made history boring
But, it turned out as a young adult he found out that if you put a dollar sign in front of the numbers he could put together P& L’s and all kinds of information for the company he worked for - worked his way up to CEO of a multinational (when he became President he expanded to countries outside the U.S.) publicly owned company with approximately 1,000 employees.
This is such an excellent clip. The whole conversation was insightful. I have a brilliant friend whose homeschooling work did for her learning challenged son what no public school could have. Yet in 4th I did experience a school so poor in CA that as a 4th grader I had the epiphany as to how teens could graduate without the ability to read. It still shocks me that it was real.
I know that this is supposed to be a bash on the general learning systems in schools, but I find extreme positivity and the fact that there were two people in Todd's life that saw potential in him and gave him a chance. God bless those educators who put Todd into the honors!
There are still some great people who are teaching out there and get it!
That is one reason our daughter was homeschooled. She was getting into trouble because, she would not transition from one class activity to the next activity. She would focus on one and be doing fine, then have to transition. She started not focusing on any topic and lost her learning ability. With home schooling, she could focus on one subject for half a day then do another topic for half and day, but complete all the work for one week in half a day. By the end of the week, she completed every topic for the entire week. She now has 2 college degrees in a 5 year span and working two jobs related to her degrees!
In school, I was the squarest of square pegs being jammed into a round hole by the system; thanks for discussing this topic!
I’m in Australia and was private schooled, same for my daughter. We have a range of public schools here, some great some very not great, but I’m very thankful that any kid here who wants learn can absolutely have every opportunity to achieve great things. Problem we have is kids who (through theirs or their parents faults) just don’t care
I can relate to Todd immensely. I was a D student until I got into a free form honors program where I excelled. I was then forced back into the cookie cutter and ended my education. I’ve had several jobs and one in R+D was great until the department was reorganized out of existence. While there I made more then one contribution that is involved in every person watching this video. Now I drive a fork lift which wouldn’t be bad if my boss wasn’t an idiot who in his infinite wisdom treats me like an idiot. The money is very good, but I’m working my way to the next adventure in my life.
I took three different personality tests. All three came back I am an ENTJ. I looked up the best jobs for an ENTJ and none of them would describe me at all. For a year and a half I researched ENTJ people. Turns out a lot of my troubles with jobs and boredom were true because of my personality. And now I'm back in school to get a degree that's suited for my personality. My GPA barely passed high school standards for graduation. I'm now pulling a 4.0. And I'm not a young man anymore. I'm turning 40 this year. But I never gave up on myself for trying to figure out why I never liked a lot of the jobs I did.
The Meyers Briggs “test” is voodoo at best. Using it as a valid personality assessment in hiring is illegal according to the EEOC. Using assessments in hiring requires an acute job analysis which then is used to compare candidates.
@@shirleyrenner-c2d ok, so what? I didn't use it for hiring. I took three tests for my own personal interest. Karen
Mike
Please , Please do a piece on the broken system of job recruiters / hiring managers / HR hiring departments that only look to see if column A matches column B because they don't understand what they are hiring for and can't spot talent that just happens NOT to have a degree / certificate.
I have first hand experience ( and stories ) about how difficult it is to get past a gate keeper to someone that actually needs the skill which leads to positive results.
Mike has always been a true role model. We need more people like Mike
Love❣️ Both my now adult offspring did not flourish in the system, did not finish highschool. I couldn’t be more proud of them… one a self taught artist (including tattoos) with many other interests and abilities… the other a heavy equipment operator who also likes to study philosophy, economics, +++.
I had to switch to home schooling just so I can get through middle school and of course high school. I hated it so much but they didnt help me in school. I have bad ADHD and they just stuck me in a special class and wrote me off. I had a really hard time getting through school that I just didnt care at all. I made it through school with a 3.13 gpa because I could focus, I got helped outside of the school down the street. Now Im going to college classes to become an automotive tech. I love to do it and Im good at it so its time to put it to work. Im the ones that got lucky and be good at my passion.
Hey Mikey! I liked! I liked the video a lot! So many things to comment on.
Todd and you, Mikey are on the right foot for sure. For a reboot and redesign of public education.
Thank you for all that you and your team do, Mikey, Gabe Kotter, where are you now??? Cheers. Mate.
This was me...HS 1.95gpa, then 2 years later...3.54gpa in THE hardest Nursing school in the area with 100% board pass rate......32 years later....I LOVE my profession.❤
I was constantly challenged in elementary school because the teachers in that district were allowed/encouraged to separate the kids into groups by ability. Then we moved and I was bored to tears throughout middle school. Complete waste of time. High school was better because, once again, I could be in a "separate" class. Looking back, I'm so glad I had the elementary years that I did😊
This is how I am, I learn better in small group where discussions are encouraged, I love church don’t misunderstand but if you ask what was taught/preached more than likely I won’t be able to answer unless I have a little conversation about what’s being taught/preached with the person beside me during class/service. Which is frowned upon anywhere I just used church as an example, because talking causes a distraction especially in church. I hated when I had classes at Tech where I had to be silent, I ended up hearing the teacher from Charley Brown talking. Which I did horrible in those classes, where as the classes that had interaction I learned and passed with no problem.
Wow! How true, I have seen the failure of the one size fits all way too often.
Mike Rowe for President!
I'm a boomer high school graduate. No college I worked summer from the 11years old and I continued through high school. And I always had my own money. Had many different jobs and I learned at all of them the younger guys can do it to. It's not easy but it will make you take a little pride in that witch you have done
I worked for a major truck company from 1987 to 2008. I went thru a apprenticeship program. I was a welder and sheet metal fabricator. Then became a lead over 2 shops. When everything went bad in 2008, My counsler wanted me to go to school to be a coder. That wasnt me. I went to a Appliance and Refrigeration repair school. I finished at the top of my class after 2 years. Since 2012, I have been more than busy. In my line of work, I have found we have holidays that cooking is a very big part of holiday. I spent an afternoon in a kitchen replacing an element in a wall oven. This was for Passover. I also spent time in customers homes for Ramadan, Easter, Christmas etc. Oh and yes, that was part of class. Instructor went over holidays during a class and how cooking is important.
My son who barely made it through high school now has a degree in anthropology and graduated with honors and is now in his second year of law school at Notre Dame. My daughter also had a hard time in high school and ended up quitting and getting her GED. She now owns her own painting company. 😁 And I never went to college and have owned my own business for more than 9 years. So I don't think high school taught me or my children much😂
My Son tries so hard in high school.
Quit college and joined the Army because he gave up.
He now is a Cyber Security Engineer with 2 master degrees and working on another.
It is so Awesome to see
@@centerfiresuppressionllc682 that is fantastic!!
Owning a business doesn’t equate to success. 80% of “business owners” don’t make a profit higher than $1k/mo and even more than that lose money rather than make anything
@@centerfiresuppressionllc682🤦♂️
I’m a fellow Weber State alumni! What a great perspective, and truth.
I'm working up an entire lesson plan using this as my start. Thank you
Many of us learn by doing, not just theory as is taught in most schools. I believe you have to have basic knowledge like reading and math. I was a blacksmith for almost fifty years. I needed the math background to do most of my projects but also the imagination to see in my mind how everything fit together and then create it. I had a job I loved and it took me places I couldn't have dreamed about. I made stuff for the space program to projects in the homes of the very wealthy. Education today is made to put people in certain boxes and not to think except in that box. I brought my kids up to explore their interests and get their education in it. Both are very successful in their chosen fields because they had the freedom to explore.
He is a legacy! That's how he got in!
Awesome Video! Well said...well done! Thank you!!
Inspiring and true content on TH-cam. Hard to come by. This video rang true for me.
I remember being a teaching assistant at the University of Missouri. I always gave essays instead of multiple choice questions. I couldn't even read most of their answers and these were senior. I was floored and the students didn't even know how to write complete sentences. I went to the head of the department but no one cared. They only cared if they passed all of their students.
At UT-Austin back in the 60s,TA’s who graded blue-books for honors classes found that even though the classes were made up of top 10 students from public schools, that there many bright students who could not construct a decent paragraph.
Get the government out of education is definitely the first step.
its not going to help
if anything the government is at least theoretically, THEORETICALLY responsible to the population. the private sector in education already takes what it can and then sees if it can finagle another couple dollars from your pocket while trimming as much as it can off the program
There needs to be some balance. No Child Left Behind tried to standardize everything and tied funding to test scores. So teaching became teaching to the test and more standardized. The government funded the public school system long before it became the issue it is today. If you ask people that went through it 35+ years ago (before NCLB), it's clear there has been a huge shift (negatively) since that law went into effect.
Also, parents becoming less involved, blaming teachers for their student's actions, and reducing punishment for serious problems have added fuel to the fire.
That'll never completely happen.
Did you zone out while watching the above video clip? Were you not paying attention at all?
The gov. loved that guys idea so much, that's why they implemented it in school. OUR WHOLE F--king society, by which I mean "Economy" is based loosely around that dudes ideas.. When Todd Ross was talking about living in the guys "Shadow"... he was spot on.
If govt gets out of education, just how would you know that the school you are sending your kids to is any good? And don't say that there will be some sort of organization that accredits the schools as this is a form of government.
@@bobroberts2371 How do you yourself determine if any product is good? Short answer is like any sensible individual you research, hear by word of mouth, see the product in use by a individual you associate with or all of the above, our ability to mass communicate with one another is far more effective at determining product worth than a government rubber stamp of approval.
The government has no place in that process so why do you feel it needs to be involved in schooling exactly? From my own experience and I'd imagine many others experiences as well, in the moment the government touches anything it falls a part and fails by every quantifiable metric or in the best case scenario it moderately functions, but turns into a never ending money hole that barely manages to deliver adequate results, people whom advocate for the government to be involved with anything always trigger the memory in me of Reagan's speech in which he says the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" and by any reasonable look at any evidence that quote holds true.
If we treat schools like any other product in the capital market then the schools will naturally sort themselves, parents will no doubt gravitate to the schools whom deliver the best outcomes for their students and the ones that fail to meet the benchmark of parents expectations will fail. This is not a foreign concept by any means in America, I mean how do you think our Ivy League schools got their start and reputation in the first place? I'll give you a hint it wasn't due to government involvement and all of them were established long before government got involved in the education system to begin with, so why could we not use that very same model by which the Ivy Leagues built themselves on and apply it to the whole education apparatus?
I wanted to teach after a 20 year Navy career. Part of my college classes was shadowing and interviewing an active teacher. I shadowed a new elementary teacher that was having a tough time because of all those little personalities for 6 hours a day. I interviewed a 30 year teacher that was about to retire. My first question was “What advice would you give to a new teacher?” He said, “Pick a different career.
The Department of Education testing and reporting takes away too many hours from actually teaching. They mandate subject matters not age appropriate or applicable to a region. Teachers can’t teach the way they know best or individualize their lessons. The “no child left behind” policy places special needs students in main stream classrooms and can be disruptive or distractive to the other students. Most schools do not hold students accountable for violent behavior and many teachers and students end up injuried or worse. School districts focus on the payment per student attendance per day they receive often forcing ill students to stay at least till the half day point.” In closing he said pick any other career but teaching, it is not what it was when he started in the early 70’s. He managed to miss 3 days work in 30 years. When he retired the school paid him for the almost 300 sick days he didn’t use. That is no longer policy in that district.
To me school was something to get through. I did enjoy learning and still do. Other than one class in highschool I failed do to complete lack of interest, I scored in the upper third percentile on the stupid tests.
I helped other kids to improve and understand the work expected by the teachers. I have seen the stupidest changes in education that managed to confuse the kids doing well and drop them down to being equal to the kids they had been able to help so everyone struggled. Experts are the nemesis of learning.
I had some teachers who were truly innovative in that they worked hard to help the kids in their classes. They worked to understand the problem and find solutions that worked.
Never attended college. Completed a data processing course with a computer programming course in the middle. Love programs like Dirty Jobs and Mike's other programs because I learn things I didn't know before.
When I was 18 I met a friend's grandma and out of the blue she asked me, "Well. What do YOU know?"
My response was, "I know a little bit about a lot of things but not one hell of a lot about any one thing in particular,"
In HS, I failed pre-algebra and joined the US Navy for 5 yrs. After that BBQ called Nam, I became a Machinist/Engineer and spent the next 42+ yrs doing complex math, Trig and Calc everyday. Go figure. I got my degree in Mechanical Engineering and love what I do for work.
Great show
I was a straight-A student from elementary on up through high school, and while part of that is smarts, my motivation was always "do what you have to so you can get out of here." In high school, I remember being annoyed at teachers who would praise my writing skills, because in reality I was writing only what I knew they wanted to hear which didn't require creativity, only regurgitation. It's all about appeasing teachers. My parents gave in and homeschooled me for a partial year and it was paradise. I felt like I was free to learn and free to follow what sparked interest in me. I had a fascination for Eastern religious studies and creative writing and art. Then I was put back in school since there was no one to stay home with me. Back to appeasing, back to being bullied. I homeschool my own kids now.
I had no idea what i wanted to do but i knew for a fact i didn't want college. Because of having a dept. There was a chance call from my cousin that a guy he knew needed help. He was a contractor. I knew nothing but how to read a tape measure. I learned on the job. Did 6-7 years straight, 20+ total of and on. I went into warehousing because of benefits. Now I'm in the manufacturing of glassware. (Food) I love warehouse work and i loved construction. I now make 60k+ a year with no debt and a mortgage free homeowner. Also buy and sell, mainly shoes buy I'll sell anything.
i wish i thought hard about college. i was just going with the flow. Doing ok now with a college degree but wish i was more intentional with my decision.
This is almost my story. Could not stand public school, even had a teacher raise my grade to get me out of his class. I have done numerous jobs, some crappy pay, some good. But I found out I am great running machines and working with my hands. Now I am a trucker which I love and make more than probably 75% of the people. That is the answer for everyone. Find what gets you up in the morning and makes you happy. Material things are nothing, if you get up and are happy to go to your job/career, then you have it. Oh, my favorite saying, If I wake up and still breathing, it's a great day.
Look at all these comments - and Every Single One of them are VALID! I do hope, Mike and Professor Rose, that you are letting the congressmen/women of every state possible to encourage new teaching/educational life skills to explore all arenas. However, the fundamentals of reading and actually writing real sentences with correct usage and spelling, knowing how to read and write cursive (it's becoming a lost art) and knowing how to do math on paper with only a pencil and eraser! (I hate that last one!)
Good day Sir, Please have a look at Trevor Eissler Montessori Madness video .
I have three children ages 21, 17, 13. All three went to Montessori from K-8. At the open house of the middle school one of the teachers said" I will not prepare your child for High School, I will prepare them for Collage because I don't know what they will get in High School. And they did. My oldest is graduating this year with a degree in Mechanical Engineering, the middle one is a 4.0 student, and the youngest is doing Pre-Engineering next year. All three learn in different ways, and speeds.
Montessori works!
WOW! Had to start over at O lahg
Langwege, everything! But I did it!🤙🙏yep and prayer!☝️
'How did we get to ...factory protocols'. Because that's how so many of us make our living. With swing shifts/constant mandatory OT/working late/weekends etc. less time and energy for the things that matter.
The underlying cause is Consumerism and "Keeping up with the Joneses" attitude.
Smart fella! Good forward positive outlook...
W. Edwards Deming: "People are born with intrinsic motivation, self-esteem, dignity, curiosity to learn, joy in learning."
Deming was instrumental of bringing Japanese industry from the rubble of post WWII to the powerhouse it is now. After reading Todd Rowe's book, read some of Deming's
7:40 Now, that right there is what puts lie to the argument I hear a lot. That "no one forced you to go to college or get those loans you can't pay." Not at gunpoint, or anything like that, no, but the _expectation_ was so prevalent that I don't think anyone living under that highly regimented education system for 12-13 years of their life (the most _formative_ years of their life, no less) would even think to question that they were going to college and getting a degree and anything else was a failure since that's the dichotomy of "choice" presented.
Absolutely the truth !!! 1000%
I dropped out in 11th grade the 2nd time. I was asked to leave the school my 1st round with 11th grade. I had a math teacher that told me to my face that she was going to fail me no matter what I did. I could take a test and pass it but she'd fail me. My counselor was booked until May. 🙄 No point in staying knowing I would fail so I walked out and never went back. Got my GED and made the 2nd highest grade out of 19 people and I didn't study for it at all. I can't stand being micromanaged because I will do the job the way it's supposed to be done whether I'm in a group or on my own. The public school system now is the same as it was 40 yrs ago. Just the names and faces have changed. 😕
I'm doing my part, I filled my list of channels with obscure ASL teachers, to get the good info out there, there's a few big channels that move their lips more than their hands, a lot of small ones are soooo much better, it only makes sense, but the bad channels' greatest skill is flooding youtube, this applies to a lot of things, as you may have seen in other places, again, I do my part to help~
Now this is what we need more people brainstorming on how to fix instead of focusing on complaining and blaming which wastes time and is unproductive...
I feel like the educational system as it stands fails a significant number of students. I’m partially homeschooling my high schooler because everything around us is college prep and her artsy brain doesn’t fit with the high math and science standards expected of every high schooler. It’s frustrating and hard to walk a different path than the one I was taught.
It's all about the money.
There's a small elementary school near my home that was scheduled to be closed. Someone in the school district with clout actually got the small school to acquire the vacant parcel of land next to it and more than double the size of the school. It is presently in the process of being expanded as I type. Parents are rushing to get their children enrolled into this school as proficiency rates are really high.
When my son was a wee little one, I had him on a two year waiting list just to get him into the best private school pre-school program in my community. All that cost was well worth it.
A outstanding segment.
Puplic school was a nightmare when I attended and it seems to have just gone downhill ever since. It wasn't the other students who were the problem but teachers who had tenure and weren't interested any more, if they ever had, in teaching anyone anything. Add in teachers who only taught because all sport coaches were required to teach even though they hated teaching. Other teachers could teach but couldn't maintain discipline in the overcrowded classrooms. I was failing miserably until one, totally awesome teacher arranged for me to do independent study. I thank God for Mr Menz every day as I would never have succeeded in life without his guidance.
You're the best mike keep it up
I am the same as Mr. Rose. I did not finish high school My GPA was the same as his or lower for not attending. School was boring. At the age of 25 I walked into a GED testing facility off the street. And pass my GED. I passed it so good I was in the top percentile of my classes if I would have graduated with the diploma. I learned a lot more in real world experience than I ever would have in school. Part of dropping out of school was I had to have a job. But it taught me a lot more than school ever did.
I went to private school, not saying I gained nothing but I graduated then fell into the college trap and graduated with absolutely no marketable skills at all. But then I found construction and did great!!!
Wish I had a teacher like him in my life!
Mike for President!!!!!
Live in the burbs. No problems with my kids in public school. We have tutors to fill in the gap. I would never homeschool my kids. I went to a private school and it was a waste of time and money.
Some of us have spouses and kids and jobs and friends and homes and bills...
Thank you for sharing
I was very fortunate to know what I wanted to do in life at around 16 when I stumbled across the word "Computer Programming". I did not go to college but instead graduated from a 2 year "Technical Institute" with a degree in Computer Programming in 1974 ... 43 years later I retired never having worked a day in my life ... I could not believe companies were willing to pay me BIG money just to play all day long programming computers ... LOL
You should be secretary of labor and education. Combine the departments and put Mike at the helm!
Here is the counterargument: today, we educate everyone.
So many of these discussions completely gloss over this fact. Yes, education was more individualized before standardization. But it also resulted in far fewer people receiving an education, either to the high school level or altogether.
And maybe individualizing education is the right way forward. But such a system is almost certain to be more costly, and we can forget about the idea that people will no longer be left behind.
I heard a pastor say this once: "People ask me all the time, pastor what does God want me to do with my life? And I say, I don't know I'm not God, but if you have passion talent, and opportunity for something, that might be a good fit. And something God made you to do."
I think issue one is the standardized testing. My father-in-law is a retired business professor. Whether it's evaluating student progress or teacher proficiency, standardized testing is an easy, but poor way to evaluate.
Problem two is the pushing of STEM. I used to be a practicing lawyer. The classes that best prepared me for law school weren't math and science. The beat classes were English and history. The practice of law requires a lawyer to express himself, both verbally and on paper. Frankly, researching a legal question is a form of historical research.
I think the third issue is tracking. Schools are loathe to do that particularly at younger ages, because parents get mad, if kids aren't in fast tracks.
But, back in the 60s and 70s, my elementary school district had fast, medium, and slow tracks for reading, language arts, and math.
My high had 3, 4, and 5 tracks for various subjects, from Fundamentals to Honors.
Mike rowe for president
It amazing that if a student excels really excels the system then treats them as an individual. They then are allowed to earn at their own speed. Graduate school early sometimes with college credits or even a degree.
Weber State -Ogden, UT!
Have you seen the recent report that came out post pandemic documenting the link between in person school attendance and child suicide rates? That's the worst thing that is happening with regard to our school system. The study is by NBER, the national bureau of economic research. I'll share the link in a separate comment.
I have been a high school teacher for 30 years. Education in the U.S. is not one size fits all. That's a myth.
Education in the the U.S. offers all sorts of classes in welding, science, art, math, history, cooking, machining, programing, and a thousand other things. We teach using books, lectures, videos, discussion, white boards, paper and PowerPoints. We offer all sorts of way to learn.
Here is the thing. Ultimately the kid has to reach out and grab it. The best teacher in the world can only lead a horse to water, he cannot make him drink.
Mr. Rose was a late bloomer. His 0.9 was on him and no one else. His early failures are no more an indictment on education than a drunk driver having a wreck is on indictment on Ford. Mr. Rose was just the kind of kid that had to suffer first. A lot of kids are like that. The problem is most of them don't have the IQ of Mr. Rose and they wait to long to smarten up.
This is not a systemic problem. This is an individual problem. It just seems systemic because there are so many individuals who are failing..
one size fits all -- simple to manage -- standardization -- speed -- global competition -- survival -- but perhaps we should aim higher for our kids.
Todd breezed over 'I got my GED'. A Teacher helped you (someone made a workbook to study) Some children need to grow up before they learn what most nerds or girls love in grade school.
They're only two problems with the education system in the United states. One, there's an oversight committee that tells you exactly what you should teach, how you need to teach for what test, and what information people need to know. Because it's all based on stats and stats or how schools get money. Number two, teachers are incredibly underpaid. When you can only offer someone $40,000 a year and they're supposed to spend all that time and know all that stuff and have all that responsibility and stress, you end up with a lower quality of person who's willing to accept that for that amount of pay.
When our economy fails completely, and I believe it will be sooner than later, all systems, not just education, will deteriorate.
Where do the kids come into it? Your observation is that it's all about the teachers. That sounds like the typical teachers' union agenda.
Lower quality of person? Really? Not everyone does what they do just for the money. And not everyone out here earning $40,000/year is a low quality person.
I had some truly great teachers growing up and I know several personally, and I’d say at least 85% do the job because they love it. Money is not a deciding factor.
Bring in teachers pay, and who couldn’t use more? That’s a no-brainer. I earn less than most teachers, raised three kids, own a home, have zero debt, drive a 10 year old car, put myself through college in my 30’s, graduated with high honors. You know what I do? Im a warehouse picker. Does that make me low quality? Im doing something I enjoy and I make enough to get by. I’m happy.
My public school experience in the 80's and 90's was that about 80% of the teachers did a poor job and half of those had quiet quit back before that was a phrase. Teachers aren't held accountable. (thanks teachers unions!)
The other half of the equation is that much less than half of the students would actively participate. It was always the same ~5 or 6 kids in a class of 25-30 who would raise their hands to answer. It was always a different set of 5-6 that always held up the class and needed extra help.
@@RogCBrand My mom was a teacher, so I got to hear about it daily, in great detail, for many years. What I learned from her matches what yackablejohnson said perfectly.
She wasn't in a union. I'll go further and say unions have had a lot to do with ruining public education. But saying that if you offer more money, you get get better people (on average!) is just true. It's not some union talking point.
I definitely wasn’t the greatest student because I didn’t find what we were learning that interesting unless it was about animals or psychology or history so in classes with those is when I paid attention. I don’t really use much of the other stuff in my career I learned in school, but I use knowledge about animals and psychology. I’m a dog groomer so my knowledge on animals is used for that, and my knowledge on psychology I use to monitor their behavior and how to work with them better based on how they might be feeling. I was interested in history but don’t use it in my career, so I turned that interest into a hobby on visiting and learning about ghost towns and their history.
I believe that the attitude of kids now is a a lack of communication at home and nobody does any discipline of there kids. Plus the teacher's of my time were very old and I truly felt like they wanted to teach us. All of the teachers now are in their 20 -30s and they don't have the drive that the older teacher's don't have
School was boring AF. I started out all A's, honor roll. Into advanced AVID program by early middleschool. Then AVID got closed because there was only one teacher who was qualified to teach it. Then I got dropped back into normal classes where they were teaching stuff i had learned 2 years prior and i never gave a **** again. Bored. Stopped going. Right before I had to leave for basic training for the Army I did my last year and a half of highschool on a conputer at Votec in like 3 months, got my diploma (Ive never seen it, guess they sent it to the army) and when they called my name for graduation I was already three weeks into basic training. Worked for my self in construction since I got out, make 3x more than everyone I know my age (30) who is an employee. No student debt, cars paid off, no credit cards, have my own house in one of the wealthiest counties in Fl. (Part of why i make good money, wealthy older clients) and I would never higher someone with a college degree. Didnt even attend last half of highschool, barely passed middle school and first two years of highschool, no degree. What a joke.
You should have more that one tool in the toolbox (a phrase Mike Rowe would appreciate). Yes, there should be a path to identify and address the needs of the hyper individualistic guest but most people are average (by definition) and the standardized system is a good use of limited resources and can deliver an adequate education. Also on the spectrum are people who will still drop out of any system. There are roles for private and public education. The trick is directing people along the right path or providing the freedom for people to choose their own path. Maybe 20-25% of eligible high school graduates would benefit from college. Business needs to stop requiring college degrees where are not relevant to the work and maybe think about on the job training and apprenticeships.
A Jordan Peterson and Mike Rowe conversation would be so cool🤙
YES
Grade numbers assigned to a kids age is something that always bothered me. All these issues have been known for decades. This all has to be intentional
Amen .
Here in rural NC vocational education disappeared yrs ago. No longer training for manual labor just letting manuals cross the border to abuse;(
I don't have the actual figures to definitely true, but I think there are more an more a group of people benefiting from vocational programs. I think there are also others that are simply finding online careers where there actually managing their own lives, rather than chasing the corporate grind. A lot of the jobs that used to be "careers" (used to be synomous with a life's work), are not treated like that anymore and filled by contract work so the corporations don't have to support pensions and health care. I did well in school, but observant enough to know the education is an assembly line that's nothing but torture for a lot of people.