Digital Hammurabi, why do you hate the Bible?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- We get accused with some regularity of hating the Bible, or working to an atheistic agenda, or of twisting the evidence to fit our own purposes. Megan will take a bit of time to address these accusations :)
Additional resources:
Saana Svärd and Agnes Garcia-Ventura - Studying Gender in the Ancient Near East
Julia Asher--Greve and Joan Goodnick Westenholz - Goddesses in context : on divine powers, roles, relationships and gender in Mesopotamian textual and visual sources
Martti Nissinen - Homoeroticism in the biblical world : a historical perspective
Stephanie Lynn Budin and Jean MacIntosh Turfa - Women in antiquity : real women across the ancient world
Zainab Bahrani - Rituals of war : the body and violence in Mesopotamia
Tamás Dezső - The Assyrian army
C. L. Crouch - War and ethics in the ancient Near East : military violence in light of cosmology and history
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Glad I found you subbed and spreading the word about you
You're welcome with us any time, Megan... whatever examined beliefs you hold. You're a treasure to the community.
I’m not crying, you’re crying 😭
I completely agree with Paul. You and Josh are wonderful!
You're pretty great too, Paul :)
This Paul guy seems suspect 🤔. Someone should direct you to some sound evidence sourced by Ken Hamm...
Just kidding btw.
Can we get this crossover episode?
I like this quote "don't teach children what to think. Teach them how to think" ❤
Yeah teach them how to think the bible is ridiculous. When obviously the bible is the only thing that makes sense to be true
I guess it's time to pull my kids out of school cause thats all the faculty is doing!
Yup 1000 yr old humans, a tiny boat twith 2 million animals, a woman turning into salt, a god saying don't worship other gods cuz I'm jealous, a man with superpowers cuz of his hair and staffs turning into snakes is the only thing that makes sense.
I want to thank both of you for the work that’s put into this channel, I find it very educational. Having been a Christian for 40 + years I find it especially interesting when Josh is going over things involving the Bible. Keep up the good work 👍
“I don’t know” is often the most honest position one can take, and no one should be ridiculed for giving that answer.
Thank both of you for your honesty and scholarly contributions. Your voices are needed and appreciated.
For what it’s worth, Donald Trump claims to be a Christian (now apparently) so you’re a much better Christian than he is, Megan. ❤️
Thats not a standard of what a Christian is. And no true scotman fallacy doesnt apply here
'I don't know' is the start of wisdom.
BTW, As a Scot I bloody hate that no true scotsman nonsense. I was brought up to say that no true Scot would say what they wore under their kilt.
@@williambutler5091 I was taught that nothing is worn under a Scotsman's kilt. Everything is in perfect working order.
Now we are under Biden and he claims to be a Catholic, yet some Bishops have discussed refusing him (and Pelosi) Communion over his positions on abortion.
I really wish I'd been here for this live chat. I'm a Christian, but have come to beliefs about the Bible similar to yours, and it's been a real crisis of faith to me, having been raised fairly fundamentalist. I don't want to abandon my faith, but it had become more difficult to justify, and I wondered what your justification is. Thank you so much for making this video, because I don't feel so alone anymore.
You’re welcome ❤️ it’s been less of a crisis for me simply because I wasn’t raised with the idea that the Bible was infallible or inerrant. I think the best way to describe how I feel about it now is that it’s an ancient document that records one community’s attempts to understand the divine.
I don’t really have a justification for a belief in a god (any god). It’s completely irrational and based almost entirely on emotions that can be reproduced by various methods...but I’m ok with that right now. Whether I will be in 5 or 10 years time, I don’t know, but for now, I’m ok ☺️
Are you still a Christian ?
I ask because I have trouble understanding how one could hold the Bible not to be divinely inspired in any significant fashion, let alone be aware of and accepting the epistemological flaws of religious beliefs, yet still be more than at best deist, so I’d be really interested in knowing how you do that. (Not a christian myself anymore, and I’m not trying to argue with you on anything, just asking for curiosity’s sake)
@@nathanjora7627 I am still a Christian. As far as explaining it though... Oof. See the thing is, I've given up on the idea that it's possible to prove God in any way, so I don't really think my reasoning, such as it is, would "convince" anyone else necessarily, nor do I think God punishes people just for not believing. (Still on the fence about whether/how God punishes people for other things.) I think the Bible, and most holy books really, is an anthology of humans trying to understand and share their experiences with God, to the extent that they were able. I think, for whatever reason (I have a few theories), God has a hard time communicating with us, so I don't think Christianity necessarily has God "right," let alone any particular version of Christianity, because I don't think an eternal supernatural being could really be understood by humans fully. I think all major religions have probably hit on some aspect or another. That said, various fundamental aspects of Christianity make sense to me when I look at the world around me and encourage me to look at things from a larger and grander perspective. Particularly when it comes to humanity, looking at it from the perspective of being made in God's image, having that spark of divinity inside us, explains to me how humanity can be capable of good and evil on a scale unimaginable in the rest of the animal kingdom. And yes, I realize that could be explained by a sudden jump in intelligence level, but that doesn't feel adequate to me, and I've decided I'm okay with that conviction (and others) being based on feelings. I think of faith now not as a mandate or something that we need to prove but as an opportunity, a kind of invitation to see the world differently. I don't understand it all and have a really hard time expressing it, but it's real to me. Some books that have kind of helped me through are Wrinkle in Time, Life of Pi, Anatheism, some of Pete Enn's stuff, and a lecture series called Canticle to the Cosmos, most of which are not explicitly Christian but have kind of helped me reconstruct my own faith. In fact, opening myself up to other ideas about God is probably the only reason I was able to keep my faith.
Sorry if this is just rambling and incoherent, but I wanted to at least attempt to answer your question because it's important to me. It's just also pretty new, so it's nebulous and might stay that way for a while, but I guess I've accepted that for the time being. Let me know if you have any questions. ☺️
@@dragongirl7978 Thanks for answering even after a year :)
« I don’t really think my reasoning, as it is, would ‘’convince’’ anyone else necessarily »
Well that’s fine, unless you want to try your hand at it with me, I’m not here to convince or be convinced so much as to try and understand what you believe, and for that being convinced is unnecessary, so it’s fine ^^
« I think the Bible, and most holy books really, is an anthology of humans trying to understand and share their experiences with god »+« God has a hard time communicating with us, so I don’t think Christianity necessarily has God ‘’right’’ »
Does this mean that you don’t think Christianity is any righter than any other religion, or do you think that all let’s say « natural » religions (ie : not obvious scams like mormonism and Scientology) are equal in regard to how representative they are of a god’s or gods’ nature and will ?
« I don’t think an eternal supernatural being could really be understood by humans fully »
Welcome to the world of agnostics ^^
(Yes, you can be both agnostic and theist, in case you didn’t know)
And I know it might look snarky but I’m actually serious, I’d agree with you that an eternal being whose nature wasn’t shaped by the constraints of our physical universe is unlikely to be knowable and/our understandable by us.
But then why be Christian specifically rather than a general theist or deist ?
You say in regard to that « various fundamental aspects of Christianity make sense to me when I look at the world around me and encourage me to look at things from a later and grander perspective »
Could you be more specific about it ?
« Particularly when it comes to humanity, looking at it from the perspective of being made in God’s image, having that spark of divinity inside us, explains to me how humanity can be capable of good and evil on a scale unimaginable in the rest of the animal kingdom »
... Wait, so you think whatever god there is can do both good and evil ? Did I misunderstand ? For that matter (sorry, I know the questions pile on ><
« but that doesn’t feel adequate to me »
Purely because of your feelings then ? (I’m asking in relation to what you said right after that, I don’t want to misunderstand what you say)
« Sorry if this is just rambling and incoherent »
Don’t be, I don’t think it was either and it did exactly what I wanted you to do (explain your state of mind).
I won’t lie and say that it made sense to me on a personal level, accepting things purely based on feelings and with no rational basis is something that makes me far too... « uncomfortable » (?) for me to accept it, so I either try to find a justification or discard the belief, so your train of thought is really alien to me. But at least on an intellectual level I can understand it, so thanks for that.
« Let me know if you have any questions »
Let me know if you want me to ask less questions XD
@@nathanjora7627 @Nathan Jora First off, I do actually self-define as a Christian agnostic to those who won't just tell me that's a contradiction in terms lol. (Honestly I try to avoid talking about my beliefs with other Christians unless I know they're the type who won't judge me.)
I'm on the fence. I mean, I do think God, assuming God exists, has actual characteristics and isn't just a conglomeration of everything, so while I don't think it's possible to understand God fully, I do think it's possible to be closer or farther away from understanding God, and thus some religions are probably more correct than others. I don't know that I have much defense for Christianity being the most correct. I feel like it is, but that might just be how I was raised, so it's not really something I'd argue with people about. But I have studied other religions and, while there are aspects of other religions that appeal to me, Christianity does the most because of its heavy emphasis (usually) on God's compassion and the mandate of compassion towards others. The Bible says a lot of things and people take what they want from it and run with it, but the importance of compassion is probably the most consistent throughout. In one example that struck me hard in a conversation with a Muslim, in the Quran, when Jesus is about to be crucified, God puts Jesus's face on one of the soldiers who's about to crucify him and takes Jesus up to heaven, thus restoring his honor, getting revenge, and proving God is sovereign. In the Biblical story, Jesus goes through with the crucifixion and prays for God to forgive the people who crucified him because they don't know what they're doing, because he is compassionate. So I guess that's my answer to "Why be Christian?"
Probably the "image of God" thing is my strongest thing that's specifically Christian (or at least Judeo-Christian?). The other stuff is kind of akin to moral arguments and "look at the trees" stuff, which I know can technically be debunked, but again, it doesn't feel adequate to me. We have such a strong sense of morality and the universe is so full of stars and energy and planets, and our planet in particular just exploding with life pretty much as soon as it was even possible for life to develop, it's hard for me to accept there's nothing behind that.
Responding to both at once... I don't think God and the image of God are the same thing. The image of God, as far as I understand it, is more like being given a little bit of divine power and understanding, particularly when it comes to the ability to reason, communicate, and especially have moral agency, which would help to explain the enormous leap that gave us the ability to do these things beyond our closest relatives in the animal kingdom. So whether or not God can do evil, I think it's possible for humans to use the image of God to do evil, just like someone could use money given by a rich philanthropist for a good purpose to do something evil.
As to whether or not God can do evil, I don't know... I mean I assume it's possible, but like... why would they? (Using "they" as a gender-neutral pronoun here.) Generally when people do evil it's because they want something and presumably God already has whatever God could want. Also I kind of feel like if God exists and is evil, we probably wouldn't exist, or at least existence would be highly unstable... I mean, have you read any Lovecraft?
Defining God... ugh, I don't know. I guess at a base level, a powerful, extra/omnidimensional, extra/omnitemporal being who is in some way responsible for the existence of the universe as it is. I believe God is good and overall for the reduction of harm and increase in well-being, because the more intelligent any particular life form becomes (i.e. presumably closer to the mind of God), the more it seems to value these things, at least in general. For less-developed life forms, as well as previous societies (because I believe humanity is still developing, particularly as we learn more things), it's more about power, which I think is why you see a development in religion in general, and even in the Bible in particular over the millenia in which it was written, of understanding God in terms of power and might to understanding God more in terms of compassion.
Yes, I realize this could also just be humans making God in their own image, and treating each other well is good for social species anyway, so would have evolved naturally. But humans take it to really extreme and irrational levels sometimes that I don't think can be explained just by evolution. And I also think if God is real, humans would be better able to understand God as they learned and developed societally. Like I said, to some degree I think this is a choice in how you see things based on personal convictions.
As for the ant thing... I don't really think that's comparable, because ants, as far as we can understand, have no higher brain power and function almost entirely by instinct, while humans seem to have some degree of control over the choices they make. Plus, yeah, maybe ants do a lot more harm to each other than humans do, but humans are literally destroying the actual planet right now... it's a much larger scale is my point.
I mean, I guess so, but I'd probably say "personal convictions" rather than "feelings" since the latter sounds kind of like nothing. But at the same time, I think feelings can be worth more than a lot of people give them credit for. Things like love and beauty can only really be determined by feelings based on experience in the end, because there's only so far science can take you with those. And I do think philosophy plays into it some as well.
By the way, just to be clear, I don't base everything on feelings lol. Like when it comes to moral decisions and positions, I take for granted, logical or otherwise, that God is on the side of compassion in the form of harm reduction and increased well being--otherwise they're not a God I want to serve anyway. And when it comes to determining how to achieve these ends, I generally trust science and other objective measures. I think people in Bible times probably tried to do the best they could with the information they had available (again, I think there's a major communication barrier between us and God), and we should too, not make decisions based on the information people thousands of years ago had available. So I live like a secular humanist and envision my theology like a New-agey semi-Universalist Christian mystic lol. But it feels right to me, so I've decided I'm okay with it, and I'm still exploring and learning from new ideas, so it might develop further or into something else, I don't know.
Yeesh, I feel like I'm writing a book lol. Congrats if you had the patience to get through all of this. :)
I appreciate Megan's honesty and openness when answering these questions. I imagine you guys get a lot of backlash from people who have their beliefs challenged by the info ya'll provide. Please keep up the good work. I just found you two about a month ago and I am enjoying what you have to say. It's very interesting to me.
People tend to label other people, sometimes they do it openly and hatefully, doesn't make them correct. One of the first things I heard in an Anthropology class, is "all humans are innately ethnocentric. Some realize this, try to learn more about themselves and fight it when its not appropriate. " it being their preconceived notions/ethnocentricity. my 2 cents. I rather liked that prof.
So, quick question: why do you hate the Bible? 😉
Love your stuff!!!
The question is akin to "why do you hate encyclopedias?" It's not hating the Bible. It is not appreciating other people's pontificating about Hermeneutics. It is the commercialization of salvation according to other's opinions that becomes unsettling.
You guys are a blessing. I just searched for a vid on any correlation between Hamurabic code and Mosaic law. I didn't want a sermon from some fundamentalist theist and I didn't want a snarky polemic from an atheist. I just wanted an objective, scholarly answer to my query. And then I watched Josh's 2 hour livestream. It was great and I really wanted to thank you for your work. If I can make one petty suggestion, better filming equipment and editing would be a plus.
I'm so glad that you found us, thank you for your comment!
And yes - we are definitely not professional videographers :) we do the best we can with the equipment was can afford, but I like to think that we're slowly improving!
@@DigitalHammurabi I would love it if you guys would do a presentation taking us into the lifestyle of 2000BC sumeria. What role religion played in every day life. I refuse to believe that people talked and thought like the Enuma Elish poem. Hhaaha.
That's certainly a video we'd love to make, but unfortunately there's not an awful lot of information on everyday religion. What we have largely is evidence for the official, state, religion, and relatively little evidence for the religious practices of the non-elites. I'll look into it, though, there may well be more information than I'm aware of :)
Hi Megan and Josh.
Before I start I just want to say that don't offer comments often, to any TH-cam videos, but I felt I needed to comment today.
So firstly, I absolutely love what you both do, people like you, freely sharing your academic knowledge to all, are helping make the world a better place. I do find it hard going sometimes, but hey! That's part of the fun.
Now... I've just watched the video from RPR that you mentioned, and I added my own comment about the horrendous and pathetic ad hominem attack that it basically was.
Although I'm pretty sure it will be deleted as I got the vary real impression from the words and attitude of the makers of that video, that they don't handle truth too well.
Anyway don't feel bad, that's simply what that kind of person does, that's ALL that kind of person can do. Just feel pity for them, because an inability to open oneself up to knowledge, and to simply try and strive to improve ones knowledge and understanding of our past, and how that should inform our present, is just a sad position to be in.
Please keep up the great work! And thank you.
One thing that I have learned listening to Christians like you, Dan McClellan, and Jennifer Wright Knust that was once difficult to comprehend as a possibility is that your religion doesn't have to be perfect for you to relate to it and have it be a part of your identity.
Fascinating! I’m guilty in assuming you both were atheists. With all this knowledge you two have on the fallacies of the Bible, and the way in which you talk about Christian’s misperceptions, I would think you both would have come to the conclusion that the whole idea of god and spirituality was made up and reject it all. I have to say, as someone who was once religious and now am not, I am curious how it all works for you. I respect your desire to keep your personal spiritual / philosophical beliefs and worship private, though, so I will not expect you to answer that question. Thank you for your videos and please keep up the good work.
I just came over from a podcast featuring your husband, and he mentionned this channel. I'm so glad I made that decision because I'm currently halfway through this video and I love you! Great presence and coherence. This is my first video from you guys and I'm hooked already!
Nice to see you back- you look refreshed ☺️
Don’t forget to regularly take time to take care of you - I know it feels impossible with time constraints, but it’s necessary ❤️
Bart Ehrman is an agnostic atheist to just name one.
My one point is you can be both an agnostic and an atheist.
Agnostic refers to you not knowing and an atheist refers to you not believing.
Why do you hate our ancient alien overlords?
Great to see you back maam. Now we get to see you and the way Dr. Josh adoringly look into one another's eyes.
Morining Megan! Good to see you and Wee Josh got home safe and I hope your time with your family was wonderful.
Thank you! We had a fabulous time 😁
In one of my history courses were given a passage from a Latin text and told to provide at least four different valid translations which conflict with each other. Then provide sources to justify each translation.
"That was my TED talk, and thank you for coming", then switching to the outro is rapidly becoming a meme.
Nice to see you back, too, btw. :)
I'm just gonna say i appreciate learning about the bible as Ancient Literature, and my best wishes for the channel.
I want you both to know how appreciated you are especially your fairness and honesty. Please don't be discouraged by uninformed angry reactions. To Josh, I want you to know how much I appreciate any information you're willing to give pertaining the bible, you are the only channel I've found giving new scholarly information on the bible. I've watched the Yale courses on both the old and new testaments and I'm more interested in information than arguments. The context in which these text where written is fascinating and hard to come by.
Sorry the internet sucks Josh and Megan, unfortunately closed minded loud mouthed people seem to be unable to grasp that it’s okay to learn something different and tolerate other humans. I want to troll everything fundamental creationist post but I somehow control myself. You both bring something unique to your corner keep it up please.
Please supply the link to the video where St Josh was cruciFRIED. I love seeing desperate people attack (with X'tian love) when they have no arguments or evidence. It was a few years ago, and he seems to have resurrected well.
I used to hate Brussel Sprouts then I had the opportunity to eat some cooked by a Belgian friend who knew how to cook them properly. I still can’t replicate what they did as I don’t have the background knowledge, experience or expertise. So for cooking Brussel sprouts I refer to my Belgian friend and for ancient near east history and literature I refer to @digitalhammurabi
Welcome back. You are doing a great job answering the questions addressed to you. I am not surprised at the fundagelical attacks on you and Josh. Both my brother and I left Catholic beliefs in high school. I waited until legal adulthood before refusing to attend church or CD. When my grandmother grew too old to drive I was pressed into driving her to mass on Sundays which I did out of family duty and love. When I announced at the age of 21 that I was a Unitarian, there was no significant reaction from my mother's family and I had fallen out of contact with my father's staunchly Catholic family. My brother became a fundamentalist evangelical and once told me that I might as well be a Pagan as I wasn't Christian.
Your views on religion and the Bible sound Unitarian or Universalist. In the US those churches grew out of Congregationalism in the early 18th Century. Dr. Josh can probably explain the Transatlantic situation [I know they exist in the UK, but it might be different]. What Interests me is that the most conservative American churches are actively hostile to objective reality, science, history, geology, archaeology, and critical thinking [the basis of the scientific method]. As Josh can explain, that is because they have backed themselves into a corner by endorsing obvious fairy tales like the Ark story that I could see was not true in junior high school.
Because of their extreme, and illogical, positions they have refused to understand the findings of science and the continued evolution of society. Their leaders understand that their beliefs are in danger from progress, but instead of trying to accommodate reality they have determined to take over the American public education systems and undermine the teaching of real science and history. They have made it clear that they don't want children taught critical thinking skills because they "might question the deeply held beliefs of their elders." I think your determination to raise your children to be open minded but critical thinkers is anathema to them.
I'm sorry about my wordy communications, but I am an academic, and have difficulty limiting my writing to sound bite size. I have some more professional questions to ask, and will try to be more concise:
1. How can we be sure to even approximate the sound of ancient languages?
Two of the methods used seem to be fraught. Onomatopoeia [as explained to me in Latin class] suggests that "va-va" in Latin should be pronounced "Wah-wah" in English because babies can't pronounce /V/. When I studied Korean, I learned that when we hear "Bow-wow" they hear Mong-mong; this suggests a flawed method.
2. The other method, looking at modern languages and following them back to a common root, also has difficulties, doesn't it? If you follow Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French, Romanian and other Romance languages back, you reach Latin, but the many obvious differences in pronunciation today, suggest that the process and analysis may be unreliable.
3. So what method is used for the ancient Semitic, Proto-Semitic and languages geographically proximate but not closely related? The Akkadians, if I understand Dr. Josh correctly,
used the Sumerian syllabary to write their different language, doesn't that present a problem?
I am a new viewer to the show but I have enjoyed interviews with you and your husband in other forums. I certainly appreciate the years of dedication that you and your husband have exhibited. You both haven’t simply ran with a feeling, but dived earnestly into scholarship and have become scholars yourselves. A casual viewer may miss the value of this.
Megan, I'm glad your trip went safely! Nice to see you back. I love your channel because of it's agenda, being strictly education! Love and Peace
I actually hate all books that teach misogyny, glorify genocide, threaten people with torture (eternal or otherwise) and claim to be absolute truth with no evidence to back up that assertion, not just the Bible.
Aren't you special? How is moral relativism working out for you?😏
@@MatthewChristn I'm not special, just a person using logic and reason to make moral choices and do the least harm I can. My stance lets me judge that monster you worship for what it is, free from threat of punishment or promise of reward. How's being a sycophant of that vile fiction you're in thrall to working out for you?
@@disrxt Logic by itself doesn't explain what a moral choice is. You need axioms and premises, and these come from outside of logic. There is already good evidence to believe in God, such as the Kalam Cosmological argument, the existence of objective morality, the fine tuning of the universe, and others. Perhaps it's your moral failings mixed with pride that have kept you from God all along.
You can find all of that in the Quran
I am grateful to you both with your work and share this in public, a lot of people do not know this. Thank you Megan and Josh.
Being religious is a conflict of interest, like a politician invested in certain companies. Maybe it will not affect them but it should at least be disclosed.
One reason I watch this channel is to find out the similarities and differences between cultures of the biblical authors and those cultures that preceded them
Looks like I'm 3 years late but loving your channel. I've never heard from someone with your personal take on practicing Christianity. My best to you and your family.i loved getting the personal insight into two ppl I greatly respect and have helped me a lot
You don't hate the bible you have a deeper understanding than most people
Lots of people don't realize that there's a difference between religion and spirituality.
...and church.
Same difference
@@mr.hazamayukiterumi2909 no. Religion is about the rules, ideology, directing the people. Spirituality is a one-on-one discussion between you and whatever you hold as divine.
@@michelebriere9569 Religion isn't just an organization or a label that one gives oneself when converted or just a set of "rules"
Religion is:
▪ A community: A gathering of fellow believers who join together for fellowship
▪ A way of life: Something that is part of one's daily life and behavior
▪ A service: Helping and serving others regardless of one's walk of life
▪ Fellowship: Worship the Creator or gods in which one believes in
▪ Family: Those who are there to love and support one another in another times of need
▪ Spirituality: A spiritual character and development
▪ Philosophy: Study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence
So yes, two sides of the same coin. Don't fall for that "spiritual but not religious" nonsense
I find myself in a similar boat. I'm a Christian but reject inerrancy and infallibility. I can't help but think the ancients in many cases were only trying to understand what probably can't truly be grasped. Much like we are today. I'd love to hear more of your understanding of Christianity and how it affects your life , how you apply it in the daily grind.
I like the your point concerning condescension. Its something I've been thinking about too. Maybe He did condescend to the ancients, but now not all of the word would apply to us. With the Bible being ethically diverse would He not condescend to us as well? I think it's at least possible.
Hi Megan. I hope you read this but I understand if you don't.
Thank you for your honest video on your opinions of the bible. It was interesting.
There was one bit that peaked my thoughts when you were talking about the divine inspiration of the Bible.
None of what you said about it may be completely incompatible depending on how you take the word "inspired". Too often I have found american fundamentalists take the position that it was written by God, which would be wrong. Where as I have found the general consensus among Christian scholars is that the Bible is relational. So for example I am reading Isaiah at the moment, and he says "I am a person of unclean lips living among a people of unclean lips", that was divinely inspired as a response to what he was seeing. You can say the same with the psalms. In that sense it is inspired.
Do I honestly believe it is infallible, jury is still out to some extent.
This is often taken from a modern misunderstanding of Paul's all scripture is God breathed, forgetting that Adam and the bones in Ezekiel are "God breathed" which appears to be the reference.
The more I watch your videos and others, and the more I read the Bible the less I am convinced it is a set of moral codes and a typology of Christ. All the Bible points to Jesus. This would explain why he taught from the laws and the prophets concerning himself. I also think we can be sure that the Gospels were recorded faithfully and we can trust what Jesus says about himself and the early church agreed on regarding his deity.
I hope this may be helpful insight into an idea if you have not come across it before.
Thank you for the helpful videos please keep up the good work. I have only just come across your channel and am really enjoying the content.
Edit: PS. See Glen from speak life on how it is not a heaven and hell narrative but a heaven and earth narrative. We have often gotten this wrong.
Okay. I am intrigued. I came from a fundamentalist Christian religion, but am now an atheist because I see no truth in the Bible. So, I am fascinated that anyone can be a Christian but not believe in the Bible as Gods word. If you don't mind me asking, what does it meant to you to be Christian?
This is no way at all a criticism, I'm just supremely interested in what others think.
LeeTubular So if I understand you correctly, many will identify themselves as Christian because of the community they grew up in as well as accepting the best parts of the Bible while rejecting the worst parts to form their basic outline of morality. Does that accurately sum up your statement?
Well, Jesus Christ is not neccesarily dependent on the Bible, despite the fact many would demand that relation. Jesus is a person while the Bible is documentary, mythology, poetry, history, stories, etc. And some do find profound ideas there: it’s up to us to find and apply such ideas.
So being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Christ that transforms life. Pretty broad maybe, but so be it, and personally I think it’s enough according to Him.
Thanks both of you for your great work and I fully support your aim of education. I have always been amazed how so many Christians whom apparently believe the bible is the inerrant word of God haven't actually read it...why would you not read it?
"It's not something I talk about because it's really no one's business." You are absolutely correct and also absolutely outside the norm as far as Christianity in America. There's a reason why most everyone here has taking one side or the other of the debate, and it comes from the far-right's desire to legislate their religion in an ostensibly free country.
You and Josh are brilliant in your contribution and insight
I have long thought it would be nice to see something from Megan. Even better than I thought!
I agree 100% that your personal beliefs should have nothing to do with the assessment of your scholarly work. Education is the most important agenda - and I look forward to more of it from both of you on TH-cam. Though education often does clash with persona l belief systems, and it takes a very mature person to stick to the sound evidence while being attacked personally.
That being said, on a personal level I really enjoyed listening to your personal beliefs. As a former CofE member (and current brussel sprout hater) I found allot of what you said resonated deeply with me. My movement from Christian to "Scientific Agnostic." I do remember when doing Bible study with my Vicar for my confirmation asking why God could be so evil with the killing of the innocents with a flood rather than just "vanishing" the evil ones. His response was (for me) perfect and I feel is CofE in a nutshell. "Well firstly it didn't happen and Noah agrees with you, after all he turned to Alcohol to deal with the horrors of hearing drowning people"
Thank you for being so open and honest, and thank you for everything you do here on TH-cam
I'm here to take your brussle sprouts. I love em.
I was raised Anglican myself. It was a nice middle of the road religion not a whole lot of "Thou shalt not"'s and In Newfoundland, Anglicans are quiet and not in your face types. I was in my 40's before I identified myself as an Atheist/Agnostic.
I don't find Anglicanism offensive or bothersome. I did find some Anglicans offensive, particularly some of the priests I dealt with over the years. One was particularly obsessed with collection plates, and how much each family contributed to the church, while another practiced a very tribal us vs. them philosophy in his sermons.
I do simlar married to a Christian while being atheist.
I like learning of history and science. You have me interested.
I think I am in the same boat spiritually as you and Josh are, megan. Thank you for this honesty and transparency. I'm also former fundamentalist and in the last year come to the same conclusions as you have. I love Jesus and His teachings but aside from that... I have lost a lot of certainty. Thank you for sharing and being open which is allowing me to know I'm not completely insane or "rebelling" as many of our fellow Christians would like to say. Also agree 100% about you say about atheist vs Christians in personality.
Also, for the person who asked the LGBTQ question, *Dr. Dale B Martin* has a book about sexuality in the bible. He is a yale professor teaching the New Testament.
I don't hate the bible either but get frustrated at how people try and make the bible something it's not. For some, their faith is so dependent on the bible being the inerrant literal word of God. I find this to be a very sad and superficial way of being a spiritual being and misses the point of being connected to the creator. Keep up the good work! it's so needed if we are to ascend as a species. Much love and blessings.🙏❤
I don't remember subscribing to your channel or where I even saw it in the first place. I almost unsubscribed after trying to watch one of your videos and getting 10 minutes in with you guys still talking about the microphone and who can see the chat (not getting on topic within the first 30 seconds...). BUT YEA VERILY DID I WATCH, CONTINUE TO WATCH AND LISTEN, AND now I think me subscribing to this channel MUST HAVE BEEN DIVINELY INSPIRED. Because I love it. ♥️
Thank you for sharing what you've learned.
You are the nicest theist that I can possibly find. I do think that the idea of a divinely inspired book, whatever the god that did the inspiring, just doesn't work. If it is clear and concise, it will most certainly be good enough for a very small audience, both in terms of the number of societies or ethnic groups and time for which it is relevant. If it is all-encompassing, it is far too complex for people to understand. If it is written as a secret code that will someday be decrypted (as mostly the apologetics think it is), then it does not speak to the billions of people who live before it is decrypted. It just does not make sense to put a message for all times and all cultures in a book.
Also, very few demonstrations can be inserted in a book so that it will be credible. If I were a Dark Ages god, I would say: "put these numbers in my book, and be careful not to make mistakes: 3.14159265358979323". Then as mathematicians perfect their art they start to understand that this is π, and note that only a god could know it with such accuracy in that age. Since the Bible has just the opposite, the god that inspired the Bible is less knowledgeable than I am, or did not inspire the Bible, or does not exist.
I love mythology. Christian mythology is kind of hard to read because it contradicts itself so often. I love the real history behind these ancient texts.
Thanks for what you guys are doing
@pinkah boo www.atheists.org/activism/resources/biblical-contradictions/
I love this channel. Altruism and honesty are superior to anythung divine.
Are you smoking psychotropic or narcotic substances, and are you (very likely) smoking them in the manner of a suppository? 😀
Hello. I watched some of your videos for the first time today. I subscribed.
Perhaps you have more insight than I into why the atheist community seems to have difficulty with people claiming to be agnostic. Apparently you're an atheist or not. As far as I'm concerned, I'm an agnostic; I don't think that there is a God, but if it turned out that I was wrong I wouldn't be too surprised or distressed. I do know that he wouldn't be any of the personal gods that people worship. He no more cares for me personally than I do for the occasional ant I kill accidentally by treading on it.
I was raised a (Southern) Baptist in Australia and participated fully in the Church - I went to the Sunday School every week (until I got expelled for asking too many questions - in particular, what was the point of knowing that the Greek word translated as "inspired" means "in-breathed" when the English word means exactly the same thing). This wasn't any real turning point, though - they continued to have me fingered as the best person in that church to be sponsored to enter the Baptist College affiliated with the University of Melbourne (there were Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, and Catholic colleges, too). I declined and studied physics instead. I really thought I was the only person in the world to carry the distinction of being expelled, without prejudice, by a Baptist All Age Sunday School, but quite late in life it turned out that an English Professor (in the British sense) of Engineering in my Scottish University had the same experience and for the same reason. He was a bit deflated too; no longer was he as unique as he had thought.
Anyway, I suppose it's good to know that there are Assyriologists who do not look, speak or act like my hero Irving Finkel Keep up the good work.
My beliefs are similar to yours (though I *would* be surprised to find gods exist) and I classify myself as an atheist. Honestly, the label does not matter, so long as you can express your beliefs clearly to another.
It seems to me that the atheist community tends to push people toward the atheist label on part because there is a general belief that doing so will help to normalize it and - in so doing - begin to erode some of the stigma that the word inspires. That's likely true, but my reason is more pragmatic. I use the definition of theism as being a beliefs statement and gnosticism as a knowledge claim. I then use the label agnostic atheist as I do not believe in gods, but do not claim to have knowledge either way.
It's not that I think it's the "right" way to do things, it simply works in my brain. I think it's unfortunate that people on both sides of this particular subject seem to want to relabel everyone.
A thought from a fellow Christian, who also gets those kinds of comments from time to time. I believe the Bible was divinely INSPIRED, but INSPIRED doesnt mean God wrote it or that humans didnt add their own oppinions and rationalizations. Its a book of truths in my oppinion that doesnt mean its all true least of all litterally so.
Problem is that if it’s not all truths, or if human hands had a significant impact on the content of it... then it makes it almost entirely useless, because what’s god’s word and what’s not becomes impossible to decide. At least I never heard any christian who holds the Bible to be errant in some capacity give a good way to decide what in it is god given and what’s not.
@@nathanjora7627 I agree with this assessment that we can't take the Bible both as inspired by God but also changed by men. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" ~ 2 Timothy 3:16. If this verse is true, then we can use the entire Bible. If we start with the premise that God gave his Word, then shouldn't it follow that he would also have preserved it and prevented it from becoming lost?
@@BibleClinger It does follow.
Bof the question is whether it's true or not.
As it happens it's not, or at the very least let's be generous and say that there is a reasonable doubt, which is not what we'd expect from an omnipotent omniscient god who wants to communicate a true word to all people.
@@nathanjora7627 Thanks for the response. What is causing this "reasonable doubt" for you?
Ah yes, one of the all time greats. I don’t hate the bible, I just don’t idolise it. There’s a difference
You haven't had brussel sprouts done right. Literally my favorite veggie 😋
Just a quick note, you can be an agnostic atheist. If you lack a belief in any god, you're an atheist. I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in any gods, but I don't say "there is no god." I can't. I don't have a current way of knowing that yes or no question. An "I don't know" in this case, without believing in any gods, makes one an atheist, just an agnostic one.
That said, I will simply call you by whatever belief-label you choose because I respect people in general. Not to mention that I really don't know your inner beliefs enough to determine anything more than general gnostic/agnostic tendencies towards the subject. Even if I did, I'd still refer to you by your preferred labels.
Something ..what do you think of those that try to reconstruct history based on conpiracy lacking evidence, or give misinformation?
Jennifer Isaacs Those people are dishonest.
Anyone know what the “Red For Religion” or “Red Paul Religion” reference was pointing to? At 8:49. Just curious.
Where can I find Joshua’s channels please?
This is it :) are you looking for a specific video of his?
@@DigitalHammurabi
I was looking for some of his debates.
Thank you very much for replying. 🙂
Surely using the bible as a guidebook for yourself and your family counts as imposing it on other people - children can't control what their parents believe and can be negatively impacted by the choices their parents make for them.
I know I'm late here, but YT only just recommended this to me. I love your stuff, keep up the good work.
Sure, but if we're going in that direction then I'm also imposing my beliefs about climate change, the importance of recycling, and feminism. I think the distinction I'm trying to make in this video (and it's been a while since I recorded it, so forgive me if my memory is fuzzy) is that while I do tell my children what my religious beliefs are, and occasionally take them to church, they are also fully aware that their father doesn't believe as I do and that there are various other religions in the world. I don't try and present Christianity as fact, or the only correct way...as far as is possible, they are free to choose what to believe for themselves. Our oldest daughter is an atheist, for example, and I will never, ever criticize her for that position.
@@DigitalHammurabi That's totally fair - I was just thinking about some of the damage that a fundamentalist upbringing can do. Its important to think about where to draw the line between raising children with your values and harming them with your values. For example, by refusing to get them medical treatment or abusing them because of their sexuality. That said, a big section of the anti-vax community comes from the left, that's just as important a question to ask regardless of religion.
I love Brussel sprouts. I had Brussel sprouts sandwiches when I was pregnant. And Brussel soup, my own invention. YUMMY.
That picture at the beginning. . .
I had a book once, with that as its cover.
Wonder what ever happened to it. Can't even remember which book it was.
Even brussel sprouts with bacon? Keep up the good work despite your disdain of the B sprouts.
They’re more bearable with bacon, but still not my favorite thing!
@@DigitalHammurabi I will pray that lord Brussel change your taste buds to his favor.
How do you know that is how I got here. just stumbled onto the channel just two days ago... interested in history...
Welcome! We’re definitely a good place for history 😁
Really enjoyed the stream
The Bible is my favorite thing ever...except for pizza...and cheeseburgers...and hiking in the mountains...but after pizza, cheeseburgers, and hiking, the Bible is my favorite thing ever. So I totally don't hate the Bible, but I see it more as a collection of fables, some have profound meaning, others are kind of silly.
Another special case here (hand up over my face with eyes rolled).
In ‘merica, EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN YOUR BUSINESS.
Lol
She's so nice and calm sounding. BTW, Brussels sprouts are fine.
I don’t think anyone “quoted” Jesus as saying there should be a book or that such a book would be holy. The supposed Jesus quotes uphold the Torah to the jot and tittle. That would have been the time to mention a New Testament
Have you done a video about what everyday life was like in the ancient near east?
blasphemer! Brussel Sprouts are delicious
😂 I never knew they had such an ardent fan base!
Did you find the lgbt in military history? Didn’t see a link in description.
Thanks for the reminder! I did some research when the stream was done and then completely forgot to post what I found! Putting it up now.
I share your feeling about the scriptural exegesis, Megan. It isn't why I am here. I am here because I am looking for symmetries--the commonalities that persist in cultures across time and place.
In keeping with this, I have some questions. If you could point me to some research in this area I would be appreciative.
How complete and representative is the corpus cuneiform records? There are many layers to this question.
Level 1. How many instances of human "transactional" behavior were "papered" (clayed, lol) via legal process and documentation? Asian culture to this day contract relationally without the use of a formal legal system and its institutions. Any data on how prevalent this relational contracting was?
Level 2. Do estimates exist on how complete documented legal documents unearthed are with respect to the total? Was documentation the rule or the exception?
Level 3. Of all the documents unearthed, what percentage of the tablets can be translated versus fragmented to incomprensibility?
Level 4. Of the translatable documents, what percentage have been translated?
Btw, for real... When is the next snack gonna be? This is important and vital info...
Jonah came during the Neo Assyrian Empire. around 850 BC or something. The kings at that time, Shalmanu'Ashuredu and his brothers Ashur-Dan and Ashur-Nirari, There was hardly any history recorded, as Assyria was beginning to decline, an obscure period.
So if anyone wonders why was not such an event like Jonah not documented. well they hardly documented anything at that time frame.
This deeply offended me. Because Brussels sprouts are wonderful.
Let me explain. Roast them with olive oil, bacon, Parmesan and lemon juice.
Other than that, spot on.
Late to the party, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts at some point on some more sophisticated and/or historical views of biblical inspiration, since the one you seem to have most objections to is a relatively modern one.
I think what the person meant by is Josh skeptical of the bible was, is Josh skeptical of the supernatural claims in the bible. Is he skeptical of miraculous claims, and claims of a divine or supernatural nature in the bible.
Oh, thank you! In that case, most definitely yes.
Thank you for sharing!
Hermann Hesse opined that, *"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us."*
This is an insightful observation, however, it does not apply to Megan’s hatred of Brussels sprouts, which she “hates with the passion of the fiery Sun,” because in this situations, she most emphatically does not want to make Brussels sprouts a part of herself, and being both eukaryotes, what she does have in common with them are also those things which she shares with other vegetables that find more favor.
Hey. Is there anyway I can email Meghan Lewis. I have about 3 questions for her. Thanks!
Digitalhammurabi@gmail.com
Is it common amongst Anglicans to not think of the Bible as divinely inspired?
I watched the RPreligion video this morning. I left a long comment which no-one will see because I'm shadow banned- so much for Max's support of free speech.
I've noticed that the more Max is exposed for the bigot he clearly is, the more vitriolic he gets.
The insults spew more freely, the misquoting becomes more obvious, the downright lies become more extreme- and the less he addresses the points made against him and his biased views.
Josh and Skylar should be proud that they got such a reaction from Max, as it means Max had no honest, justifiable criticism of either the Praise I Am video, or the MMD video.
They were fair and honest in both discussions- as I'm sure at least Sy and James would attest to, and never let their thoughts be clouded by ideological dogma.
ben green That is incredibly kind and encouraging, Ben. Thank you so much.
@@DigitalHammurabi
My pleasure.
ps- obviously "Old Skool" British sprouts boiled to death for hours, are hidious- that goes without saying, but if you slice 'em up and sautee with a few almond flakes, they are so much more palatable - hmm wonder if that technique would work with Max?
@@bengreen171 I would advise baked or sauteed sprouts with pepper, and garlic drizzled with olive oil, myself. "De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum."
@@JMM33RanMA
Sounds pretty interesting, and I'm sure the taste and colour are indeed beyond question.
@Clade Starfish
Bigot bearnaise avec confit du fallacie - mmm delicious!
It is easy to see where the prophecies fail. In what should be the most important set of prophecies , Jesus said he would return within the lifetime of his audience, for example the High Priest Caiaphus would see JC return on the right hand of power in the clouds. Mark 14:61-62
Megan, you know there's almost 3 minutes of silence in the beginning of the video?
Humanism is King (or Queen!). We should simply just be good to one another.
I just can't get behind humans. I've met too many of em. Can't be trusted. Lol
Megan, you are so lovely. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
I have read (I don't remember where) that if you go to a Philistine site, and dig down to the bottom, you will find Mycenaean pottery.
I suggest you view "How Badly Was the New Testament Corrupted? | Daniel Wallace at SDSU" if want both sides of the coin.
The Good news of the gospel is for "Good" not harm. An atheist is disobedient to the greatest commandment which began in the OT so it's not harmful to me but anyone who proclaims faith in Jesus or claims to know Jesus recognizes where that path leads and might warn or reason with such a person for "their" good. In judgments made I would state it will be "Jesus's" words the prevail.
One might be offended at hearing of the eternal consequences but that doesn't make it a lie.
Thank you for your frankness. Many Christians are admiring of C. S. Lewis (myself among them), but most are unaware of his views about the Bible and inspiration, which are anything but historically and scientifically naive. Those motivated to find out could read pp. 109-119 of his book Reflections on the Psalms (Harcourt 1958) and Miracles (HarperCollins 2001) p. 218. Also, the evils that have been and are being done in the name of Christ--just as atrocities committed under the mottos "Land, Bread, Peace" and "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"--are a poor means of judging the ideals the perpetrators have claimed to represent.
"Ehipassiko = come , see, and proof it.
Don't blindly believe even if I'm the one who told you so "
Lord Buddha🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'm with you on the Brussels sprouts thing. The closest proof to a literal devil there is on the planet lol.
@@jayb0g Yep, I've had them oven-roasted with garlic butter as well as boiled. Still just as nasty and stunk up the entire house.
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
House cats in Mesopotamia? I can't imagine any civilised society that doesn't have cats.
Anyone of any background who speaks truthfully and openly about the bible, its content and origins, faces being labeled an atheist or hater of God, his word and so on.
Believing the Bible was divinely inspired is a view held (I would imagine) by the majority of Christians. However, it is in no way a requirement, whatever anyone might say.
Well, if one intends to be coherent, it kinda is.
She has said herself in other comments that (at least a year ago, no clue if her view changed since then) she held onto her christian beliefs for purely emotional reasons that she knew were reproducible for other types of belief she doesn’t hold to be true, so it seems like she wasn’t internally coherent from an epistemological standpoint that’s for sure, and I don’t see how you could be if you both professed a certain religion and accepted that your belief is unfounded.
Came across you with Bart Ehrman recently and clicked this old YT. I believe you are now an atheist, if I remember on one of your interviews with Bart? Anyway, either way, it is a personal preference. The attackers are rigid and at their core, fearful.
When talking of brits and kids hating brussel sprouts, I am sure you will appreciate my favourite (brit) comedy sketch of all time : th-cam.com/video/rBzTsmv4UtI/w-d-xo.html