IMO I believe Sidious forever resented Vader secretly after losing his body and the battle to Obi-Wan on Mustafar. When he showed up he was under the impression Vader was dead. So finding him alive led to plan B.
Sidious hated Vader for being so weak, that he couldn't even kill his old master, despite being so much more powerful. Ultimately Vader let everyone down; the Jedi, Padme, and even Sidious. The only person who could ever truly love him, after his loss to Obi-Wan on Mustafar, was his son, but it was just enough to save him.
I agree with you. He felt that Vader was a failure, but at the same time, when Sidious is smiling while Vader screams in agony after realizing he killed Padme: “he might not replace me, but he is still powerful”. Like, he might not become the god I wanted, but at least he can be my Tank now.
You maybe right,or certainly right,I think Palpatine wanted a completely human apprentice,and Not the part cyborg Anakin became..p.s.It was Anakin’s hubris that kinda got him f**ked ,or perhaps the arrogance of youth,,but Obi Wan was a master ,and on a elite level within the Force, and Anakin being a young man in hurry didn’t think things through,he could of had a battalion of Storm troopers to aide him in his fight against Obi Wan,and then Crush him,but like Most young Men ,he was in a Rush..
Vader was Sidious' liability: after using him as the hammer with which to forge his empire, I think Sidious had little need for Vader afterwards. Sidious kept trying to get rid of Vader or at least keep him occupied. I think he tried to mold Vader into a more Machiavellian-type Sith but probably came to conclusion Vader was too full of rage and self-loathing, and delegated him to primarily his enforcer rather than potential successor
After mustafar, Vader was always in so much pain and his mental state filled with so much trauma that it would have been impossible for him to just relax and be focused on building up the empire, let alone ruling it. Even if Palpatine didn’t make Vader’s suit weak, he still would have been in a ton of pain and had ptsd to the max. You ever been in excruciating pain before? Multiply that by like a thousand and that’s what Vader felt all the time. He could never be the sith Palpatine wanted after his injuries
“I wonder if your thoughts are clear on this, Lord Vader. Perhaps your feelings for your old master have left you weakened. If your past cannot be overcome…” Vader was not the hammer of the empire, he was its surgical knife, and Palpatine was seeing it blunted from being swung with wild abandon. Palpatine was not ever losing control of Vader, Palpatine only ever concerned himself with maximising his utility, never considering him an equal or a true apprentice, if an apprentice was ever something he cared to have, Vader was a mere tool. In fact what seems to be the case is that Palpatine’s obsession with finding a true apprentice was such that he could use their force sensitive body as a key to attaining eternal life. He had once had this plan for Vader, but alas his injuries made this impossible. Palpatine did not care to have a successor, he wanted it all for himself, he wanted absolute power, both in influence, strength and longevity. His Empire would allow him to destroy planets across the galaxy with a snap of his fingers, his power would make him indestructible and his line of young bodies to transfer himself into would ensure he never lost his power to the inevitability of time.
Nope you're wrong vader is his best apprentice he is satisfied about vader even he says it you're the best thing happen too me. Vader is his commander sidious need a commander for empire he can't do all his job
The newly minted Vader seemed pretty enthusiastic about the prospect of ruling the galaxy, talking about bringing order, peace, and justice to HIS new empire, and was gleefully explaining to Padme that he could overthrow Sidious (like a true Sith!). However this could also just be the arrogance of new power and the dark side. I’d say a clear shift happened after Mustifar where Vaders potential was cut short and his shift focused toward revenge.
Palpatine's/Sidious' desire for power was based on his insatiable need to be admired and worshipped, to build a great dark utopia and for everyone to love him for it. Vader's desire was to cause suffering and death, to reflect his own unending suffering and his desire to die.
Vader would have been much easier to control by Sidious, if he wasn't so impulsive when it was personal. Vader was a Slave and Then a General in a very short time. He never lost, he only had to retreat. He didn't know how to, without a Mentor when at his worst, As Anakin or Vader...Both of his Masters Could read him, and defeat him in their own fashions...Until they couldn't, and Luke showed up tipping the scales as the Last Great Idea, The Jedi Council had...
I imagine Palpatine ONLY told him that when Vader started killing SO MUCH that it was hard to get ANYTHING done... In addition,to the narrated. My guess is Vader started acting less a Sith an more like a rabid cyber android.
I think their upbringing and class background plays a big part in how differently Vader and Sideous view the Sith and the dark side. Palpatine grew up in wealth, and around career politicians, businessmen, and aristocrats. Anakin grew up a slave and then under jedi training, a solider and eventually a general.
They both had the same obsession with the Jedi. It's just Vader was the one who was acting upon it. Vader gets out of hand sometimes with his wrath, so he needs to be checked at times. Sidious really didn't mind his bloodlust more than his obsession with one jedi, Obi-Wan. Sometimes it would cloud his judgment and open up the door to mistakes. Palpatine knew that if he didn't stay focused Vader would be the end of him. Which is what happened anyway. Vader wasn't ever meant to take Sidious' place. He was always supposed to remain the apprentice. Palpatine respected the rule of two, he just was very strategic when it came to ensuring he was always the master.
His bloodlust was also because he was trained in the old ways, as a warrior of the force(the light side). He wasn’t a temple guard or scientist, he was a knight raised by a zealotus jedi order that even his padawan had turned her back on. Vader was for all intents a force of nature pun intended.
remember palpatine killed darth mauls brother then he begged for mercy then palpatine was like im not going to kill you i have other uses for you then he kept hurting him and toturing him with force lightning god darth maul god owned in that clone wars episode darth maul even killed obi wan kenobis love intreste in that show im surprised by mauls using two lighsabers when his brother he used both his chopped up lightsaber and the darksaber but man sidious just destroyed both maul and savage to bits and pieces in their duel maul could not even defeat his former master even in a lightsaber duel with his very own brother standing by his side
You said Palpatine was the true embodiment of the Sith rule of two, but isn't he flawed as well? Palpatine didn't really try to teach his apprentice everything he learned. It seems he hoarded a lot of knowledge from Vader to help keep him weaker and reducing the potential for Vader to overthrow him one day. Wouldn't this break the tradition and role of a Sith master? What do you think?
As far as I'm aware, Sith in general keep secrets from their apprentice, thus leading the apprentice to try to learn their master's secrets and by their own means. And eventually, the apprentice learns enough from both their master and their own investigations where they don't have anything to learn from their master
@@renaissanceravensly5567 in theory it strengthens the Sith, but IRL, such practises would weaken the Sith. Not only do you need to learn about the Dark side, you need to learn how to steal techniques from your master, yeah good luck with that.
Imagine if Luke did become Sidious's New Apprentice and he tossed Vader to the side. The Story could be that an angered Vader would plot revenge by finding out Leia was his daughter and training her to be his Sith Apprentice. Vader and Leia would challenge Sidious and Luke for the rank of Sith Lord along with control of the Empire in a 2 on 2 fight/battle. In a Twist during the middle of the fight, Luke and Leia would turn on their masters and rule the Empire together as siblings.
If Luke became the new Apprentice Vader would most likely have been dead. And I think palatine would have continued with the rule of 2 which he had changed to the rule of 1 after Vader defeat.
If Luke replaced Vader, Vader would have been dead. Vader was on the ground defeated and the emperor wanted Luke to kill Vader. “Fulfill your destiny, and take your fathers place at my side”. I don’t know how you can imagine a scenario where Vader some how makes it out of the Death Star alive with Luke and Palpatine trying to kill him
I think Vader was throwing a prolonged temper tantrum, granted for a understandable reason, and I am not surprised at all by Palpatine's reaction to him slaughtering everybody. I think Palpatine got off on subjugating the galaxy, and Vader killing his men meant, they were more afraid of Vader than Palpatine, and in Palpatine's Sith mind, that meant Vader had more power over them than he did. I think Palpatine was driven by pride more than anything else, and that would have been completely unacceptable to have Vader be more terrifying than he was. Vader was just driven by wrath and grief, and to him a universe without Padmé wasn't worth ruling over. It was better to just watch it all burn, like Obi Wan watched him burn back on Mustafar.
So Palpatine was even Scared of Darth Vader's bloodlust because Vader never showed love for the Empire. He should be!!! Sidious wanted Vader to have so much Bloodlust as a Sith Lord.
yoir correct palpatine had his own problems when he turned anakin skywalker to the dark side of the force he got what he wanted then he heard of vaders son luke and no longer wanted vader so in return of the jedi basically palpatine wanted luke to kill his own father its a iconic story the first 6 star wars films have soo many twist and turned more twists and turns tan the sequel trilogy in my honest opinon bringin back palpatine for episode 9 was dumb and lame and idiotic bringin back sidious in my opinon ruins and destroys both anakins and lukes journeys
one of my favorite charecters is far diffent from sidious and vader hes no longer canon you might have heard about him he has his own trilogy of books his name is darth bane
Yes, but killing your own officers for the slightest errors is a bit much. You need people to be able to put your plan in place, and no one wants these positions out of fear of being killed, then....
@@trekstarsam2494 vader did his things his own way palpatine did his things his own way as well both vader and sidious things differntly my favorite sith lords malgus caedus and malak and of course bane did things their own ways
The way you describe Sidious seems like someone who isn’t evil, but someone who has different political/ideological views which is totally correct. Star Wars presents a good vs evil perspective for the simplicity of the audience, but In reality, good and evil are simple points of view
An interesting question, what does a Sith do when they have truly learned all, defeated the light, controls everything and everyone? What happens when there is nothing more to strive for? Do they transcend to a power like Darth Nihlus? Eating planets and tearing reality asunder for some inconceivable reasoning?
What you describe is pretty much the end goal of the Rule of Two. The Sith have ruled the galaxy before, and the Rule of Two was their long game plan to regain that control. Had it not been for the existence of the Rebellion and Jedi survivors, they would have been successful at the end of the Clone Wars.
Nihlus never care about what being a sith means only that it help fulled it hunger. The sith want to rule over everything but Nihlus wanted to consume everything. Dispite how much raw power it had ataned it lack discipline while most sith Lord are expected to have some control over themselves Nihlus either refuse to or was unable to do so. Nihlus would have in due time brought about the end of the galexy and rule over a graveyard.
I think they knew they could never completely defeat the light, so they would always have to be working/on guard. But I guess if they got to the point of nigh total power, they would have to start working on true immortality.
What you describe fits Emperor Vitiate much more than Nihilus, who was simply an aberration born of Malachor V. "You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again.”
As Weyoun said in Star Trek Deep Space Nine: "Why be a god if there's no one to worship you?" That was also Sidious' philosophy, which is why he didn't want DV to kill everyone.
Kind of puts Vader in a weird light as far as an apprentice choice. His personality was to battle and conquer, but Palpatine bypassed that need. Would a younger Tyranus style Sith suit better?
Consider that he knew anakin would be the most powerful person in the galaxy and was the best duelist, I think he wanted to ensure that anakin was on his side. And I think before anakin lost to obi wan, palpatine knew he would replace him based off what he said to yoda in ROTS
In Short, Sidious feeds off of the despair and control he reigns onto other living beings; with the sufferance of oppression feeding his need. How can he feed if Vader kills everyone????? This inadvertently proves that there are things far worse than death, for instance living beneath the subjugation of oppression as a means of feeding a vicious dictator’s taste for seeing hopeful living beings constantly crushed by despair with no element of choice.
It’s really depressing hearing how much palpatine starting disliking, and almost regretting having Darth vader as his apprentice, and how happy he would be to replace him, when u think of Anakin skywalker, and remember who he used to be, and that now he’s not only a tool to be used, but a tool palpatine really just wants to get rid of!
No lie you know it’s bad when Papa Palpatine’s gotta call you into his room and say “Ok it’s gotta stop Vader I mean it” he actually had to scold him Palpatine that’s why he’s The Master, The Man, The Emperor
Id like a video explaining how the Empire worked. Was it fair or a pure evil dictatorship? Aside of blowing up Alderaan and chasing rebels, The Empire didnt do much in the original trilogy.
I believe Sideous and Vader hated each other (which seems like a normal Sith thing). Vader was never going to forgive Sideous for Padme and the Emperor was disappointed (but a bit fearful) in what Vader had become. Vader's hate grew even more once he learned about Luke. That was probably the beginning of the end for that relationship. As for the officers lets be real, most of them had it coming. 🤣🤣🤣
Wow that is a brilliant assessment, and it makes perfect sense in some ways making Palpitine more credible than Vader who was actually a tool. Vader was a slave to his emotions, when he was initially converted to the dark side he was still very young and in many ways immature. So he had to grow into the role but it was difficult because he had so much baggage of bitterness. I enjoy your channel and I love your analogies.
Sidious couldn't comprehend that Anakin/Vader would mourn the death of his wife and unborn child. He thought Vader would just forget it all. That same love, demonstrated by Luke to his father, was Sidious's undoing.
Palpatine is afraid of everyone and everything. This is why he is so powerful because fear is one of the necessary feelings to get in tune with the darkside. Sidious has a lot of hate, fear for everything ...yeah the dude is just the perfect embodiment of the dark side.
I'm sure they had that had that talk more than once. At the end of the series Vader is preparing to burn down the entire galaxy and Palpatine who is clearly amused must rein in him...again.
Also it’s perfect plaugis died not knowing that his true apprentice was out there Vader never would have betrayed him which too palpatines credit is the sith way but still plaugis is the one who anakin actually needed If he were truly gonna save padme from death palpatine knew very little about this subject as it was plaugis who was obsessed with everlasting life
@@RyanSmithy not to mention the force itself created anakin as a direct result of plaguis attempts at manipulating the darkside of the force in his chase for immortality
As it turns out. Anakin was far more powerful with the Dark side than palpatine can ever be. Darth Vader's very existence is pain, suffering and regret(foundations of a true sith and completely necessary user of the dark side of the force) Heck if not for his resperator, Palpatines lightning would have just made him stronger than ever...
It's actually kind of interesting hearing from the opposing side. We see from the view of the Jedi and rebels, so clearly the empire is evil. But we also see little care to outer rim worlds and piracy running rampant under these factions. The empire sure were bad but helped many of these systems grow.
All sith, loose themselves in blood lust for some reason. Maul was trained to be an assassin and warrior he revelled in it and Vader lost himself in it when he bagan killing the Younglings which I think horrified Sidious he went that far
"Vader lost himself in it when he Bagan killing the Younglings which I think horrified Sidious he went that far" no, it didn't, he told Vader what he needed to do: "I want you to go to the Jedi Temple, we will catch them off balance. *Show no mercy* "
Also Vader was in eternal despair believing he killed his wife and children and betrayed by the very order he trusted time and time again by lies and secrets. In Vader’s mind he rather kill everyone to vent his rage or atleast kill enough that everyone would feel the pain and emptiness he felt. He had no care for what his master wanted, also on a side when Vader was still Anakin he was a trained warrior and at a time of a war and made a general on front lines at young age so battle is all he new also death because it was all around him.
I think we can all agree, star wars lore is just so fascinating. Palpatine created a monster, that even he was afraid of. But being the master of manipulation he was, he managed to keep that monster on a leash. Then look at the irony, it took vader being turned back to the light side to defeat the emperor. In the end, it wasn't the bloodlust the emperor should have been afraid of, he underestimated the little remaining good inside of vader and luke's ability to turn him away from the dark side. Absolute genius storytelling, it doesn't get much better than this. I really hope some day we get some sort of live action vader show, that explores the realtionship he has with the emperor more deeply. That would be so good if they did it right.
Well Darth Vader is a Legend not only for being a strong sith despite hes weaknesses from injuries from Mustafar against Kenobi, and from mechanical suit. He is so-called the Butcher of Jedis. Betraying and killing all those jedi in temple and after (specially after) the incident of Mustafar, becoming the symbol of fear and butchery for the jedi, hunting and killing them one by one in duels and killing anyone stand on his way. Even Darth Sidious had a fear on Vader. Thats why he put weaknesses in his suit (specially in lighting) to keep him under control. He even monitor Vader for his activities and to learn his secret plans.
Nice analogy but I think their dynamic was more of a pit bull and their owner. Vader could have defeated Palpatine but he thinks he can't. More so he was afraid of what would he be if he did.
@TheStupendousWave Could you do an expose of Tarkin and the destruction of Alderaan. If Obi-Wan felt the destruction, so to Palpatine and Vader. Maybe this was felt with orders of magnitude greater, for Leia as that was her family and home world. Did Palpatine want Tarkin to perform the same threat again? Did Tarkin get permission to take out Alderaan? Was Vader happy, or did he/Anakin believe this went too far? Did Yoda feel Alderaan's destruction? How did the citizens of the Empire feel, how did they learn of this? I'm sure Palpatine couldn't blame the rebels for that one? As for Vader, I never felt he would've made a good Sith. He was in flux between Anakin and Vader. He needed family to balance his mind an Padme and his mom were long gone. Vader was the personality that dragged him from day to day, made him feel something. Anakin did use drugs - it was pain that brought Vader to the forefront, as he struggled with his loss. Everyone was disposable to Vader after he lost his mom and Padme. Then came Luke.. and Palpatine didn't understand that a son would soothe Anakin's broken heart and retire Vader.
Palpatine: "I know life is pretty boring now that all the Jedi are dead but can you please stop killing my officers for a hot sec? At least the useful ones?"
😂 dude dooku was so much weaker than Vader why would sidious want a pathetic and weak apprentice Vader had far surpassed dooku and maul and Vader even became so powerful he rivaled his master sidious and even passed him on power
Vader is a wreking ball with no interest in politics, I feel like Palpatine would have tried to replace him before ROTJ but knowing Vader he probably would have been too difficult to kill
In the Thrawn series, a high ranking officer contemplated whether or not the Empire would have fallen with Thrawn in charge instead of Vader. Officers admired and sought out the approval of Thrawn. They feared and avoided Vader.
@@sikkastanislas4530 if thrawn had been palps right hand, it would have been a whole different galaxy. Tbh,he probably would have ended up in charge. At least he would have insulated the empire from the emperors worst ideas/urges and likely would have short circuted a lot of resistance before it really began by finding ways to get compliance without actually having to put boots on necks.
@@blackc1479 yeah totally agree but tehy sre just some fights they could never win without vader one being the purge on the temple just clones wouldnt be sufficient for that
For Sidious to put Vader in check he must've really been going over the top. Sidious was like.....Dam Lord Vader you can't go around the galaxy just deleting ppl willy nilly. What's the point of me being Emperor if everybody is dead? I don't want to be the Emperor of nothing. Chill the F*** out bro!
My initial thought was that Palpatine had to calm Vaders bloodlust to protect himself, that if he did not get it under control Vader would kill him at any given moment, at an unexpected moment.
It's because Anakin was never meant to be Vader. He wasn't even meant to be a Jedi. He wanted to be a husband and father, and was caught between to warring powers. He was manipulated, and lied to by both sides. It was their visions that twisted him into what he became.
@@ElKabong3345 vader is in the suit, soley because he would die without it, he wasnt supposed to be in the suit, luke would very likely be sold as the son of the clone wars hero, anakin skywalker, and used as propaganda, in a simular way to how anakin was supposed to be used
@@windghost2 Afterwards, Palpatine would go out of his way, in one way or another, to shove Luke in a suit that's weak to force lightning when the opportunity arises. This is actually in slight reference to the novel, Darth Plagueis. Where Sidious defeated Plagueis with Sith Lightning, finding that shorting-out his respirator was _extremely_ helpful in defeating someone whom he considered an equal. With Vader, he saw an exception briefly to his new Rule of One, but the minute he could shove him and weaken him in a suit? He took it. Sidious sees it more as, "if you got damaged enough to need a respirator, it's your fault more than mine, idiot" while cackling maniacally, just like he did to Plagueis.
You are actually mistaken saying that Palpatine wanted to bring order to the galaxy. Palpatine isn't a misguided villian like Thanos, where he tries to bring prosperity to the universe, but his way of doing it just shows how misguided he is. Palpatine wants the empire to serve one person and one person only... himself, as nothing holds more value to Palpatine, then himself. Palpatine just wants ultimate power for himself, he wants to be a dark god who ragdolls the galaxy however he wants. Palpatine is a dark entity, beyond anything the universe has ever seen. The amount of pure evil, contained in this one single soul, and how he goes showing off this evil, is beyond anything anyone has ever seen, and the amount of torture, dispare, suffering and death, he caused to trillions of souls, simply to gain ultimate power, is nothing short of terrifying. Arrogant, cruel, sadistic, remorsless, deceitful, selfish, brutal, malicious, Gluttonous, Prideful, Slothful, Wrathful, Greedy, Lustful, envying, every terrible trait you can possibly imagine in a person is in Palpatine, and his intentions are nothing short of horrible!
vader seems to be treating everyone like a sith, if they are not strong, then they must die, only when one is strong enough they should be able to lead
You know you got issues when the most evil guy in the galaxy tells you that you need to chill out abit
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IKR 😂🤣 He’s like, woah bro…way too evil, even for a Sith Lord
"You went full psycho...you never go full psycho."
Papa Palpy- Are we the Baddies?
I can just imagine palps just sitting at his desk getting the news that vader killed the officer that he JUST brought in an hour earlier 😂😂😂😂😂
Vader: *kills everyone*
Palpatine: *literally a demon of the Sith* WHOA bruh chill
IMO I believe Sidious forever resented Vader secretly after losing his body and the battle to Obi-Wan on Mustafar. When he showed up he was under the impression Vader was dead. So finding him alive led to plan B.
Sidious hated Vader for being so weak, that he couldn't even kill his old master, despite being so much more powerful. Ultimately Vader let everyone down; the Jedi, Padme, and even Sidious. The only person who could ever truly love him, after his loss to Obi-Wan on Mustafar, was his son, but it was just enough to save him.
@@Just_Pele agreed even in the movies sidious said vader would be more powerful than him and yoda but all that changed.
I agree with you. He felt that Vader was a failure, but at the same time, when Sidious is smiling while Vader screams in agony after realizing he killed Padme: “he might not replace me, but he is still powerful”. Like, he might not become the god I wanted, but at least he can be my Tank now.
You maybe right,or certainly right,I think Palpatine wanted a completely human apprentice,and Not the part cyborg Anakin became..p.s.It was Anakin’s hubris that kinda got him f**ked ,or perhaps the arrogance of youth,,but Obi Wan was a master ,and on a elite level within the Force, and Anakin being a young man in hurry didn’t think things through,he could of had a battalion of Storm troopers to aide him in his fight against Obi Wan,and then Crush him,but like Most young Men ,he was in a Rush..
Hahahahahaha!! Well no shit!!!!
You believe??? That’s the whole fucking story line!!!!
"I do not wish to rule an empire of corpses."
-Darth Sidious
Palpatine: Hey, hey Vader, chill a little, I’m trying to run an Empire here!
Vader: You might have an Empire, but the Galaxy is mine.
Vader was Sidious' liability: after using him as the hammer with which to forge his empire, I think Sidious had little need for Vader afterwards. Sidious kept trying to get rid of Vader or at least keep him occupied. I think he tried to mold Vader into a more Machiavellian-type Sith but probably came to conclusion Vader was too full of rage and self-loathing, and delegated him to primarily his enforcer rather than potential successor
After mustafar, Vader was always in so much pain and his mental state filled with so much trauma that it would have been impossible for him to just relax and be focused on building up the empire, let alone ruling it. Even if Palpatine didn’t make Vader’s suit weak, he still would have been in a ton of pain and had ptsd to the max. You ever been in excruciating pain before? Multiply that by like a thousand and that’s what Vader felt all the time. He could never be the sith Palpatine wanted after his injuries
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“I wonder if your thoughts are clear on this, Lord Vader. Perhaps your feelings for your old master have left you weakened. If your past cannot be overcome…”
Vader was not the hammer of the empire, he was its surgical knife, and Palpatine was seeing it blunted from being swung with wild abandon. Palpatine was not ever losing control of Vader, Palpatine only ever concerned himself with maximising his utility, never considering him an equal or a true apprentice, if an apprentice was ever something he cared to have, Vader was a mere tool. In fact what seems to be the case is that Palpatine’s obsession with finding a true apprentice was such that he could use their force sensitive body as a key to attaining eternal life. He had once had this plan for Vader, but alas his injuries made this impossible. Palpatine did not care to have a successor, he wanted it all for himself, he wanted absolute power, both in influence, strength and longevity. His Empire would allow him to destroy planets across the galaxy with a snap of his fingers, his power would make him indestructible and his line of young bodies to transfer himself into would ensure he never lost his power to the inevitability of time.
Nope you're wrong vader is his best apprentice he is satisfied about vader even he says it you're the best thing happen too me. Vader is his commander sidious need a commander for empire he can't do all his job
The newly minted Vader seemed pretty enthusiastic about the prospect of ruling the galaxy, talking about bringing order, peace, and justice to HIS new empire, and was gleefully explaining to Padme that he could overthrow Sidious (like a true Sith!). However this could also just be the arrogance of new power and the dark side. I’d say a clear shift happened after Mustifar where Vaders potential was cut short and his shift focused toward revenge.
Palpatine's/Sidious' desire for power was based on his insatiable need to be admired and worshipped, to build a great dark utopia and for everyone to love him for it.
Vader's desire was to cause suffering and death, to reflect his own unending suffering and his desire to die.
Vader would have been much easier to control by Sidious, if he wasn't so impulsive when it was personal. Vader was a Slave and Then a General in a very short time. He never lost, he only had to retreat. He didn't know how to, without a Mentor when at his worst, As Anakin or Vader...Both of his Masters Could read him, and defeat him in their own fashions...Until they couldn't, and Luke showed up tipping the scales as the Last Great Idea, The Jedi Council had...
Yeah, and much of Sheev's narcissism comes from a combination of his father's abuse and his mother's neglect/indifference
Perfectly stated and absolutely true!
I imagine Palpatine ONLY told him that when Vader started killing SO MUCH that it was hard to get ANYTHING done... In addition,to the narrated. My guess is Vader started acting less a Sith an more like a rabid cyber android.
I think their upbringing and class background plays a big part in how differently Vader and Sideous view the Sith and the dark side.
Palpatine grew up in wealth, and around career politicians, businessmen, and aristocrats.
Anakin grew up a slave and then under jedi training, a solider and eventually a general.
They both had the same obsession with the Jedi. It's just Vader was the one who was acting upon it. Vader gets out of hand sometimes with his wrath, so he needs to be checked at times. Sidious really didn't mind his bloodlust more than his obsession with one jedi, Obi-Wan. Sometimes it would cloud his judgment and open up the door to mistakes. Palpatine knew that if he didn't stay focused Vader would be the end of him. Which is what happened anyway. Vader wasn't ever meant to take Sidious' place. He was always supposed to remain the apprentice. Palpatine respected the rule of two, he just was very strategic when it came to ensuring he was always the master.
The only rule Palpatine respected was the rule of one, that one being him.
Awesome video as usual bro, all the best from Ireland 🤟
Chancelor Palpatine: Do it!
Emperor Palpatine: Vader Dont do it!
Emperor palpatine: chill vader, just chill bro🤦🏽♂️
His bloodlust was also because he was trained in the old ways, as a warrior of the force(the light side). He wasn’t a temple guard or scientist, he was a knight raised by a zealotus jedi order that even his padawan had turned her back on. Vader was for all intents a force of nature pun intended.
Vader is just so dangerous man best villain also what’s the link to this evil instrumental
"There is only one vision; my vision"
- Darth Maul
remember palpatine killed darth mauls brother then he begged for mercy then palpatine was like im not going to kill you i have other uses for you then he kept hurting him and toturing him with force lightning god darth maul god owned in that clone wars episode darth maul even killed obi wan kenobis love intreste in that show im surprised by mauls using two lighsabers when his brother he used both his chopped up lightsaber and the darksaber but man sidious just destroyed both maul and savage to bits and pieces in their duel maul could not even defeat his former master even in a lightsaber duel with his very own brother standing by his side
Keep up the good work
You said Palpatine was the true embodiment of the Sith rule of two, but isn't he flawed as well? Palpatine didn't really try to teach his apprentice everything he learned. It seems he hoarded a lot of knowledge from Vader to help keep him weaker and reducing the potential for Vader to overthrow him one day. Wouldn't this break the tradition and role of a Sith master? What do you think?
As far as I'm aware, Sith in general keep secrets from their apprentice, thus leading the apprentice to try to learn their master's secrets and by their own means. And eventually, the apprentice learns enough from both their master and their own investigations where they don't have anything to learn from their master
@@renaissanceravensly5567 in theory it strengthens the Sith, but IRL, such practises would weaken the Sith. Not only do you need to learn about the Dark side, you need to learn how to steal techniques from your master, yeah good luck with that.
Imagine if Luke did become Sidious's New Apprentice and he tossed Vader to the side. The Story could be that an angered Vader would plot revenge by finding out Leia was his daughter and training her to be his Sith Apprentice. Vader and Leia would challenge Sidious and Luke for the rank of Sith Lord along with control of the Empire in a 2 on 2 fight/battle. In a Twist during the middle of the fight, Luke and Leia would turn on their masters and rule the Empire together as siblings.
Assuming he isn’t killed in ROTJ.
If Luke became the new Apprentice Vader would most likely have been dead. And I think palatine would have continued with the rule of 2 which he had changed to the rule of 1 after Vader defeat.
If Luke replaced Vader, Vader would have been dead. Vader was on the ground defeated and the emperor wanted Luke to kill Vader. “Fulfill your destiny, and take your fathers place at my side”. I don’t know how you can imagine a scenario where Vader some how makes it out of the Death Star alive with Luke and Palpatine trying to kill him
I think Vader was throwing a prolonged temper tantrum, granted for a understandable reason, and I am not surprised at all by Palpatine's reaction to him slaughtering everybody.
I think Palpatine got off on subjugating the galaxy, and Vader killing his men meant, they were more afraid of Vader than Palpatine, and in Palpatine's Sith mind, that meant Vader had more power over them than he did. I think Palpatine was driven by pride more than anything else, and that would have been completely unacceptable to have Vader be more terrifying than he was.
Vader was just driven by wrath and grief, and to him a universe without Padmé wasn't worth ruling over. It was better to just watch it all burn, like Obi Wan watched him burn back on Mustafar.
It was Vader's way of weakening the Empire from within. Dude was playing 3D chess long game against Palpatine.
That thumbnail actually goes pretty hard
So Palpatine was even Scared of Darth Vader's bloodlust because Vader never showed love for the Empire. He should be!!! Sidious wanted Vader to have so much Bloodlust as a Sith Lord.
yoir correct palpatine had his own problems when he turned anakin skywalker to the dark side of the force he got what he wanted then he heard of vaders son luke and no longer wanted vader so in return of the jedi basically palpatine wanted luke to kill his own father its a iconic story the first 6 star wars films have soo many twist and turned more twists and turns tan the sequel trilogy in my honest opinon bringin back palpatine for episode 9 was dumb and lame and idiotic bringin back sidious in my opinon ruins and destroys both anakins and lukes journeys
one of my favorite charecters is far diffent from sidious and vader hes no longer canon you might have heard about him he has his own trilogy of books his name is darth bane
darth caedus aka jacen solo is also my all time favorite sith lord i totally am reading and enjoying the legacy of the force book series
Yes, but killing your own officers for the slightest errors is a bit much. You need people to be able to put your plan in place, and no one wants these positions out of fear of being killed, then....
@@trekstarsam2494 vader did his things his own way palpatine did his things his own way as well both vader and sidious things differntly my favorite sith lords malgus caedus and malak and of course bane did things their own ways
The way you describe Sidious seems like someone who isn’t evil, but someone who has different political/ideological views which is totally correct. Star Wars presents a good vs evil perspective for the simplicity of the audience, but In reality, good and evil are simple points of view
Very good insight. Never really thought about this, but makes a lot of sense.
Thanks to the comments I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed Palpatine's "what the hell" face at the end of the obiwan finale.😂
An interesting question, what does a Sith do when they have truly learned all, defeated the light, controls everything and everyone? What happens when there is nothing more to strive for? Do they transcend to a power like Darth Nihlus? Eating planets and tearing reality asunder for some inconceivable reasoning?
Nihilis was transformed due to the mass shadow genetator
What you describe is pretty much the end goal of the Rule of Two. The Sith have ruled the galaxy before, and the Rule of Two was their long game plan to regain that control. Had it not been for the existence of the Rebellion and Jedi survivors, they would have been successful at the end of the Clone Wars.
Nihlus never care about what being a sith means only that it help fulled it hunger. The sith want to rule over everything but Nihlus wanted to consume everything.
Dispite how much raw power it had ataned it lack discipline while most sith Lord are expected to have some control over themselves Nihlus either refuse to or was unable to do so.
Nihlus would have in due time brought about the end of the galexy and rule over a graveyard.
I think they knew they could never completely defeat the light, so they would always have to be working/on guard.
But I guess if they got to the point of nigh total power, they would have to start working on true immortality.
What you describe fits Emperor Vitiate much more than Nihilus, who was simply an aberration born of Malachor V. "You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again.”
As Weyoun said in Star Trek Deep Space Nine: "Why be a god if there's no one to worship you?" That was also Sidious' philosophy, which is why he didn't want DV to kill everyone.
Gods are narcissists Vader is like kratos
Lord Vader is himself a true hater.
Kind of puts Vader in a weird light as far as an apprentice choice. His personality was to battle and conquer, but Palpatine bypassed that need. Would a younger Tyranus style Sith suit better?
Consider that he knew anakin would be the most powerful person in the galaxy and was the best duelist, I think he wanted to ensure that anakin was on his side.
And I think before anakin lost to obi wan, palpatine knew he would replace him based off what he said to yoda in ROTS
This video did explain a lot. Thank You for posting it.
In Short, Sidious feeds off of the despair and control he reigns onto other living beings; with the sufferance of oppression feeding his need. How can he feed if Vader kills everyone?????
This inadvertently proves that there are things far worse than death, for instance living beneath the subjugation of oppression as a means of feeding a vicious dictator’s taste for seeing hopeful living beings constantly crushed by despair with no element of choice.
It’s really depressing hearing how much palpatine starting disliking, and almost regretting having Darth vader as his apprentice, and how happy he would be to replace him, when u think of Anakin skywalker, and remember who he used to be, and that now he’s not only a tool to be used, but a tool palpatine really just wants to get rid of!
Tyranous would've suited better
No lie you know it’s bad when Papa Palpatine’s gotta call you into his room and say “Ok it’s gotta stop Vader I mean it” he actually had to scold him Palpatine that’s why he’s The Master, The Man, The Emperor
Id like a video explaining how the Empire worked. Was it fair or a pure evil dictatorship? Aside of blowing up Alderaan and chasing rebels, The Empire didnt do much in the original trilogy.
I believe Sideous and Vader hated each other (which seems like a normal Sith thing). Vader was never going to forgive Sideous for Padme and the Emperor was disappointed (but a bit fearful) in what Vader had become. Vader's hate grew even more once he learned about Luke. That was probably the beginning of the end for that relationship. As for the officers lets be real, most of them had it coming. 🤣🤣🤣
Wow that is a brilliant assessment, and it makes perfect sense in some ways making Palpitine more credible than Vader who was actually a tool.
Vader was a slave to his emotions, when he was initially converted to the dark side he was still very young and in many ways immature. So he had to grow into the role but it was difficult because he had so much baggage of bitterness.
I enjoy your channel and I love your analogies.
Sidious couldn't comprehend that Anakin/Vader would mourn the death of his wife and unborn child. He thought Vader would just forget it all. That same love, demonstrated by Luke to his father, was Sidious's undoing.
Palpatine is afraid of everyone and everything. This is why he is so powerful because fear is one of the necessary feelings to get in tune with the darkside. Sidious has a lot of hate, fear for everything ...yeah the dude is just the perfect embodiment of the dark side.
I'm sure they had that had that talk more than once. At the end of the series Vader is preparing to burn down the entire galaxy and Palpatine who is clearly amused must rein in him...again.
Also it’s perfect plaugis died not knowing that his true apprentice was out there Vader never would have betrayed him which too palpatines credit is the sith way but still plaugis is the one who anakin actually needed If he were truly gonna save padme from death palpatine knew very little about this subject as it was plaugis who was obsessed with everlasting life
Interesting thought
@@RyanSmithy not to mention the force itself created anakin as a direct result of plaguis attempts at manipulating the darkside of the force in his chase for immortality
@@postsniper-7532 love your thoughts
Sidious was a bad dude 💀 big time 👏
As it turns out. Anakin was far more powerful with the Dark side than palpatine can ever be. Darth Vader's very existence is pain, suffering and regret(foundations of a true sith and completely necessary user of the dark side of the force) Heck if not for his resperator, Palpatines lightning would have just made him stronger than ever...
Vader almost makes Palpatine seem mildly benevolent.
It's actually kind of interesting hearing from the opposing side. We see from the view of the Jedi and rebels, so clearly the empire is evil. But we also see little care to outer rim worlds and piracy running rampant under these factions. The empire sure were bad but helped many of these systems grow.
darth vader is a fucking beast
well He is a Proper Sith Juggernaut. Proper Sith Juggernauts are quite dangerous
All sith, loose themselves in blood lust for some reason. Maul was trained to be an assassin and warrior he revelled in it and Vader lost himself in it when he bagan killing the Younglings which I think horrified Sidious he went that far
"Vader lost himself in it when he Bagan killing the Younglings which I think horrified Sidious he went that far" no, it didn't, he told Vader what he needed to do: "I want you to go to the Jedi Temple, we will catch them off balance. *Show no mercy* "
Uhhh Sidious is wicked. He told vader to kill the younglings.
@@qb6570 exactly
Your anger makes you stronger gives you focus. That is why he was afraid of vader
Also Vader was in eternal despair believing he killed his wife and children and betrayed by the very order he trusted time and time again by lies and secrets. In Vader’s mind he rather kill everyone to vent his rage or atleast kill enough that everyone would feel the pain and emptiness he felt. He had no care for what his master wanted, also on a side when Vader was still Anakin he was a trained warrior and at a time of a war and made a general on front lines at young age so battle is all he new also death because it was all around him.
I think we can all agree, star wars lore is just so fascinating.
Palpatine created a monster, that even he was afraid of. But being the master of manipulation he was, he managed to keep that monster on a leash. Then look at the irony, it took vader being turned back to the light side to defeat the emperor. In the end, it wasn't the bloodlust the emperor should have been afraid of, he underestimated the little remaining good inside of vader and luke's ability to turn him away from the dark side. Absolute genius storytelling, it doesn't get much better than this.
I really hope some day we get some sort of live action vader show, that explores the realtionship he has with the emperor more deeply. That would be so good if they did it right.
Well Darth Vader is a Legend not only for being a strong sith despite hes weaknesses from injuries from Mustafar against Kenobi, and from mechanical suit. He is so-called the Butcher of Jedis. Betraying and killing all those jedi in temple and after (specially after) the incident of Mustafar, becoming the symbol of fear and butchery for the jedi, hunting and killing them one by one in duels and killing anyone stand on his way. Even Darth Sidious had a fear on Vader. Thats why he put weaknesses in his suit (specially in lighting) to keep him under control. He even monitor Vader for his activities and to learn his secret plans.
I am What the Force created,I Am going to
Become something...
Monster
Ancient Sith: Space Vikings
Bane Sith: Machiavelli
"Vader has just finished choking out an entire group of officers." - Care to rephrase that?
does anybody know what music was used in this video?
Palpatine treats skywalkers like Orochimaru treats Uchiha lol
Vader was a Wood chipper, Paplatine was a laser. But toss a laser into a wood chipper, and see what happens...
Nice analogy but I think their dynamic was more of a pit bull and their owner. Vader could have defeated Palpatine but he thinks he can't. More so he was afraid of what would he be if he did.
Cover pic for this video is badass 👍🏽
Palpatine “ Vader FFS that’s the 15th person today!!!”
Nice.
@TheStupendousWave
Could you do an expose of Tarkin and the destruction of Alderaan. If Obi-Wan felt the destruction, so to Palpatine and Vader. Maybe this was felt with orders of magnitude greater, for Leia as that was her family and home world. Did Palpatine want Tarkin to perform the same threat again? Did Tarkin get permission to take out Alderaan? Was Vader happy, or did he/Anakin believe this went too far? Did Yoda feel Alderaan's destruction? How did the citizens of the Empire feel, how did they learn of this? I'm sure Palpatine couldn't blame the rebels for that one?
As for Vader, I never felt he would've made a good Sith. He was in flux between Anakin and Vader. He needed family to balance his mind an Padme and his mom were long gone. Vader was the personality that dragged him from day to day, made him feel something. Anakin did use drugs - it was pain that brought Vader to the forefront, as he struggled with his loss. Everyone was disposable to Vader after he lost his mom and Padme. Then came Luke.. and Palpatine didn't understand that a son would soothe Anakin's broken heart and retire Vader.
whats the music in background?
Palpatine: "I know life is pretty boring now that all the Jedi are dead but can you please stop killing my officers for a hot sec? At least the useful ones?"
Should’ve kept Dooku
Dooku would have been too old..
😂 dude dooku was so much weaker than Vader why would sidious want a pathetic and weak apprentice Vader had far surpassed dooku and maul and Vader even became so powerful he rivaled his master sidious and even passed him on power
@@bauglir2462and he's so far weaker then Vader
It would be funny if Palpatine had made Darth Vader attend an anger-management course😉😁😆.
*Vader gets summoned to Palpatine's office*
Emperor Palpatine: "Yo Vader, stop killing to many people."
Vader: " Okay, but why?"
Sidious is right the business man rulership approach is the best approach to control the galaxy instead of the straight up savage one ☝🏾✅
So Palpatine wasn't so much afraid of Vader's bloodlust, as he was annoyed and inconvenienced by it
Vader is a wreking ball with no interest in politics, I feel like Palpatine would have tried to replace him before ROTJ but knowing Vader he probably would have been too difficult to kill
Basically Palpatine started the fire and was now afraid it would burn his house down.
In the Thrawn series, a high ranking officer contemplated whether or not the Empire would have fallen with Thrawn in charge instead of Vader.
Officers admired and sought out the approval of Thrawn. They feared and avoided Vader.
Vader was a rather toxic character tbh
They wouldn't have won half of those battles if vader wasnt there
Oh of course, dude was force choking ppl for fun 😂.
@@sikkastanislas4530 if thrawn had been palps right hand, it would have been a whole different galaxy. Tbh,he probably would have ended up in charge. At least he would have insulated the empire from the emperors worst ideas/urges and likely would have short circuted a lot of resistance before it really began by finding ways to get compliance without actually having to put boots on necks.
@@blackc1479 yeah totally agree but tehy sre just some fights they could never win without vader one being the purge on the temple just clones wouldnt be sufficient for that
Can you imagine if they actually did a Plagus / Pompatine prequel!
For Sidious to put Vader in check he must've really been going over the top. Sidious was like.....Dam Lord Vader you can't go around the galaxy just deleting ppl willy nilly. What's the point of me being Emperor if everybody is dead? I don't want to be the Emperor of nothing. Chill the F*** out bro!
Pretty sure vader hated the empire and wanted it destroyed
My initial thought was that Palpatine had to calm Vaders bloodlust to protect himself, that if he did not get it under control Vader would kill him at any given moment, at an unexpected moment.
Funny enough, if you take the darkside path in KotOR II, Kreia will give you a similar lesson in there being no value in "ruling a galaxy of corpses."
It's because Anakin was never meant to be Vader. He wasn't even meant to be a Jedi. He wanted to be a husband and father, and was caught between to warring powers. He was manipulated, and lied to by both sides. It was their visions that twisted him into what he became.
You know you have issues when the most powerful dark side user tells you to stop killing so damn much.
So Vader was inadvertently giving the Rebels a fighting chance and they didn't even know it.
Hi
Lord Vader will be pleased 😈
What if Luke fell to the dark side in RoTJ? How powerful would like become as Palpatine's Apprentice?
He would have end up in the same mechanical suit as Vader.
They show a similar What If with Starkiller in "The Force Unleashed"
@@ElKabong3345 That... really doesn't explain what would happen if DJ Palpy won in EP 6.
@@ElKabong3345 vader is in the suit, soley because he would die without it, he wasnt supposed to be in the suit, luke would very likely be sold as the son of the clone wars hero, anakin skywalker, and used as propaganda, in a simular way to how anakin was supposed to be used
@@windghost2 Afterwards, Palpatine would go out of his way, in one way or another, to shove Luke in a suit that's weak to force lightning when the opportunity arises.
This is actually in slight reference to the novel, Darth Plagueis. Where Sidious defeated Plagueis with Sith Lightning, finding that shorting-out his respirator was _extremely_ helpful in defeating someone whom he considered an equal.
With Vader, he saw an exception briefly to his new Rule of One, but the minute he could shove him and weaken him in a suit? He took it.
Sidious sees it more as, "if you got damaged enough to need a respirator, it's your fault more than mine, idiot" while cackling maniacally, just like he did to Plagueis.
@@ElKabong3345 But Luke only had a robot had. And Dark Empire Luke was the apprentice he always wanted.
Makes sense...
Curious to know more about the jedi trials, never seen any footage of what they do or what it consists of
Anyone else picturing Palpatine as an HR guy (assigned to Vader).
You are actually mistaken saying that Palpatine wanted to bring order to the galaxy. Palpatine isn't a misguided villian like Thanos, where he tries to bring prosperity to the universe, but his way of doing it just shows how misguided he is. Palpatine wants the empire to serve one person and one person only... himself, as nothing holds more value to Palpatine, then himself. Palpatine just wants ultimate power for himself, he wants to be a dark god who ragdolls the galaxy however he wants. Palpatine is a dark entity, beyond anything the universe has ever seen. The amount of pure evil, contained in this one single soul, and how he goes showing off this evil, is beyond anything anyone has ever seen, and the amount of torture, dispare, suffering and death, he caused to trillions of souls, simply to gain ultimate power, is nothing short of terrifying.
Arrogant, cruel, sadistic, remorsless, deceitful, selfish, brutal, malicious, Gluttonous, Prideful, Slothful, Wrathful, Greedy, Lustful, envying, every terrible trait you can possibly imagine in a person is in Palpatine, and his intentions are nothing short of horrible!
Maybe Vader was a secret acolyte of Khorne.
He's a weasel emperor he didn't kill his master in combat he attacked a drunken master.
So Awesome 🗡️
vader seems to be treating everyone like a sith, if they are not strong, then they must die, only when one is strong enough they should be able to lead
They say they are not butchers but they are I remember him and sideous took out a whole tribe of people who helped them just cause
The highest kill count has the one who pushed the button on the Death Star to destroy Alderan.
Then Palpatine builds the Death Star and kills more people in one shot than Vader could in his whole life. Then goes on to build a SECOND ONE.
Nice
An interesting thought is that Vader was killing because in his eyes nothing really mattered anymore. Also what’s the song at the end?
anyone know the background music?
Does anyone know the ambience music Wave used under the commentary? I would like to listen it. Thank you
Sounds very much like the lessons Darth Bane was teaching zannah