@@gooseg3822 I don't think people will tbh, I know I won't especially if I'm tanking. Sure maybe casuals will, but we all know they don't get inv to high keys for a reason.
Half the fun of m+ is the pacing of it due to the timer. If blizz fixed the tanking situation, reverted the stun changes, nerf / remove peril and make bricking a key less punishing, m+ would be way better. Pugging is just way too painful this tier. Having to push your key back after a brick is such a pain when pugging because the lower your key gets the worse the players signing up are and it makes it so painful to push the key back up. Not to mention the 1 hour wait time in between each brick if you are waiting for good players. Having more than one chance to run a key before it drops a level would also help immensely considering a high key can brick on the first lust pull from one mistake. Waiting in LFG for ages just to have your key bricked on the first pull and then have to wait in LFG again just to push your key back up is a huge waste of time, makes pugging almost unbearable and makes people more likely to get salty due to the amount of time wasted.
I don't know, deaths in Mythic+ runs create a lot of stress already. If deaths were the ONLY difference between success and failure, you can bet that EVERY death would cause toxic responses from the dungeon group.
@@FallOut3Guru123 yes but what he means is if you stand in a puddle and perish, people are going to flame you WAY more than they would in regular M+. partly because they have the time to do it but also because you are contributing to the *only possible way* of not completing the key. if someone misses a kick, it will be significantly more penalizing because there is no way to make up for people perishing. yes, it is punishing right now. but it will be twice as bad if that is the only possible way to fail. and not every key is depleted on the first pack. using "Perish" because apparently youtube doesnt like me to say the d e t h word. incredible social media
I’d prefer if they just expanded the delve system and gave it rewards parallel to mythic + but focused on survivability instead of speed. I enjoy mythic + as it is but could see value in the delve system being a fun way to play the game as a different option.
I can see some real strange strategys commin up if there is no timer. Like going out and respeccing to pure single target for bosses. Or healer respeccing to dps for trash etc.
@@Ellinov LOL @ your logic. first of all, it doesnt take 4 hours to fail 3 15s. you can do that in 20 minutes. but doing it in 30 minutes is a much greater achievement than doing it in 4 hours. this way, people like you who lack the skill and knowledge to complete a 15 in 30 minutes cant compare yourself to people like me who can complete it in 30 minutes. dont take from me just because youre not good enough to do it yourself. thats your incentive. "im not good at the game, so the game should be made easier for me" NO. you want your participation trophy? go do a normal, heroic or mythic 0 dungeon. or delves or raid finder. seriously, there is no reward for timing a 15 other than IO so why do you care? there is NO REWARD for timing a 15 other than IO so WHYDOYOUCARE?
@ “people like you can’t compare to people like me” HOLY EGO LMAOOOO. Bro is like 1.5k. Also, good luck getting INTO 3 15s in 20 minutes with how much I’m sure you get declined. 😂
that would make the people waiting for their CD's take 1hour per dungeon and the people speed running it get 2-3 dungeons done per hour it isnt abuse if its a loss in prog (time wise)
"Tanks and healers hate how punishing it all is. Let's see if they'd like it to take 5x as long to be just as punished." Leave the silly bad ideas for brawl-esque shenanigans like break the meta.
the removal of the timer is such a dumb idea :D i think make delves ONLY solo content and balance it around solo contend and bump theyr rewards and difficulty and give solo players option ... Or solo Q M+ and keep lfg for premades
@@chessiecat7860 nobody that matters would stop doing m+ and raiding. All those people that don't have interrupt binded would run away from the keys and do stress-free delves. Why is that a bad thing? That's a huge W. When people that didn't enjoy raiding got m+, it was praised as one of the best expansions ever.
Solo q m+ would never work for anything beyond +4 if it reaches that. Same reason LFR is how it is. If you ever went into it, you know it's full of animals. Also, it won't fix the tank/healer issue
Blizzard looking at a delve mechanic to improve mythic+ is so god damn sad and telling that this is just going to have to be one of those lessions that they need to learn the hard way. Also I'd rather go to work than do keys where we have to cc mobs pack to pack just to wipe anyway when the tank dies to a tank buster
if the dungeon remained the exact same but instead of a timer its a death counter how would that effect anything? if u wanna speed run speed run if u wanna take it slow take it slow think about it for more than 2 seconds
@@FallOut3Guru123 how would it affect anything with a death counter instead of a timer atm? 12+ keys done right now demand a lack of deaths anyway, and certain small packs right now in the game are still capable of wombo comboing players. This is a matter of defensive bloat and the game being designed to instantly clap you if you dont proactively use a defensive. the moment blizzard gave dps player's agency over their own life was the moment the game took a turn for the worse. Incentivize dps to pick up healing and tanking by making those specs insane and able to carry keys instead of fucking shitting on those roles and killing off mythic+ in the process.
there is delves for that , just needs more work on them, or introduce new mode, but if they remove timer for m+ i just cant see any fun in that sadly.... Hope some new games or other MMOs are working on something like m+
So many reasons not to add a death timer. It’s irritating that of all the things we’ve been asking for, this is something they’re thinking of, which is something we are NOT asking for. Man. Just blows my mind after they did some good moves with the currency
@@jgro9 Man I LOVED those seasons. I hope we get another season like that. And player accountability needs to mean something because there are so many bricked keys that could have been upgraded too
People keep saying that, but almost no one would even consider it. It just isn't a fun thing to do, and is also unlikely to be necessary. You would see much smaller, safer pulls though.
OT Question. I see that when you are facing in combat a pull of mobs, other mobs that are not in combat have almost transparent nameplates. Which is the option on plater to do this ??
@@FallOut3Guru123 which it does do already. going from a 14 to a 15 is a big difference and, if you only timed the 14 with 30 seconds left, you will most certainly need a new strategy to time the 15. youll have to pull bigger, youll have to do more damage, and youll have to survive better. thats the *whole point* of the timer. you prog the 15 until you get it right, and then you have to reprog everything on a 16 with once again, bigger pulls, more damage, and surviving better. you probably wouldnt know about this because you sound like a player that is hard stuck in sub 10 keys.
Getting rid of the timer makes dungeons basically mini raids where you just wait for cds every pull. No thanks If you dont want to deal with the timer do base mythic or heroics
These casuals want the best gear is the problem that is why they funnel into M+. Then get mad they can't do it. Granted M+ does need some changes, but removing the timer for a death count ain't it.
It's really simple. Keep the timer, but make the key depletion. Tied to them death count that way, the key bushers are still trying to beat the timer for my oh wild casuals and people just trying to get tens done, we'll just have to worry about not dying
i cannot wait for tanks to do one mob by one mob , holy good suggestion blizzard , its gonna be so fun doing a m+ run that takes two hours , blizzard is hitting rock bottom on the m+ scene , im slowly getting turned off playing wow the more i look at what they suggest on their survey , just remove the god damn peril , bring back s3 tanking and healing , remove those cringe dungeon pools , stonevault , echoes last boss , city of threads second and third boss , just adress this bs and stop asking players , multi billionaire company asking for help to fix their game , what a time we live in.
Tbf Blizz didn't come up with this idea, some TH-camrs and casuals suggested having a death count instead of timer. That's where Blizz got the idea, and seeing how bad Season one was is probably why they are considering this. Even tho this would make things worse not better.
I would argue the toxicity would be worse. If you have a death count instead of a timer then lives would be far more limited than it is with the timer. Somewhere between 10-20, so everyone will flame someone the moment you die even once. This will also effect the meta, you think it's bad now. Only classes with good defensives will be invited or they will just bring more high DPS tanks.
Remove death penalty or make a spawn after every boss. Give bonus loot for deathless in time.(Runes, gold, valorpoints) Dont depleat keys or at least give them stacks. Bring back interrupts with stuns. Give mith track gear at key lvl 14 (easyer to do when stuns interrupt again) mobs with tank busters need to be more spread out. So the tank can pull big without 2 tankbuster mobs. Make the cd of tankbusters bigger, let them hit even harder. Less despells in dungeons. Give every healer cr and every tank bl. Thats what i would do to fix m+ Also, death limit m+ would kill m+. The defensivecreep affects some classes way more.
A death timer would be horrible: nobody wants to base the game on cautiousness. I would love to see something based on speed to try to introduce some of the fun the MDI is showing. The system actually has 2 parameters: difficulty and speed. If you set speed and use difficulty, you have the current m+ system. If you set difficulty and use speed you have the MDI.
It should just be a low key alternative for the casuals, activable below like 12 level of key. It won't work for high keys, because everyone will hardcap at the key level where one shots start happening, but a ladder must exist, so how will they determine who is better when 10 000 people do a +18? By the time they did it in, and at that point the timer is back, even after it is gone.
death limit would be the BEST change they could ever do! It would mean the better you are at YOUR role/class/spec, and not about how good you are at the "meta" option.
Lol oh you sweet summer child. Removing the timer for a death count would make meta choice even worse. People would start bringing classes with only great defensives.
I still feel like all the weird and wacky thoughts about dynamic crests and death caps vs timers wouldn't exist if myth track vaults came from 8s and gilded crests came from 7s. Like Dragonflight. We're getting this cloud of discussion because the difficulty of getting your weekly myth piece has jumped a bit higher than the average player is happy with. Duck it back down again and all of this goes away and people who don't want to push will farm gear on 7 alts and have a great season, and people who do want to push will do 20s or 25s or something and have a great season.
Let say they do that. The meta will now be "be perfect at every small fight or lose" M+2 and beyond will be way harder to balance the fact that you don't need to rush. So basically you'll have to face current m+5 mobs in the new m+2 and mob difficulty will now grow faster than previously as now more precision and dps will be expected for each pack. Timer might seem like an issue but it isn't. Complexity of packs, class perception and balance, amount of healers and tanks... These are to me what might reduce the number of keys. Not the timer.
People forget that there are two types of keys people run; Push and Farm. Time vs Death counter only matters for Push keys. For Farm keys, which are the majority of keys, speed would already be king if we removed the timer from the current system. Nothing would change. For Push keys there wouldn't be much of a change either really. Because the number one reason for Push key failures is time loss from deaths. Meaning that in the end it all comes out a wash. The idea of wait for 3/10 min between every pull assumes that nobody will fuck up thanks to a lower enemy count but in the end that becomes moot as well as we end up with more attempts at lower risk (death counter) vs fewer attempts at slightly higher risk. 30 pulls at 1% risk of failure vs 6 pulls at 5%. The difference isn't large enough to bother with in the end. Speed will win out in the end since you can do more attempts with the speed group in the same amount of time potentially tripling (ore more) the rewards if luck favors you.
It would NOT better, everybody in the group will select the most tanky spec and use tank trinkets to survive the keys and what's the point of that? Like 5 blood DKs
People are already doing that. Before the major nerf to City of Threads, groups run with 3 tanks + 2 healers. Players will play the game abnormally when the content gets rough. It's always the fault of the service. If the environment gets so extreme, you better believe that everyone will be using tanking trinkets only. It's never the player's fault. Blizzard's balancing design is garbage.
But these issues would likely happen at a higher level of key imo and be less of a detriment in 12’s (in theory anyway, who knows with the player base lol)
Maybe different modes for keys? For example, beating the timer is your typical key, while beating the death count makes the packs and boss tougher. Smarter pulls and cc would matter, while still adding a timer will offer bonus rewards.
horrible idea. a 30 minute dungeon would take an hour because we would just sit and wait for 2 minute CDs, defensives, bloodlust, certain classes would just build up their bonus crap like enhance does... do people even think before they speak?
Wasting your time isn't really an exploit if anything you're paying it with your life...time. Add to that the fact that you are not having any more rewards doing so.
You could fail two times dungeons in an hour or you could complete a death limit dungeon in that same time. Idk about you but I’d rather commit more time to getting more rewards.
you are the one not thinking this only helps the community people can choose to keep running fast and guess what u get rewarded more becuase u get more dungoens done the casual players can pull slower use CC ect and take longer whats the prob?
@@FallOut3Guru123 then just do lower keys where youll have more time to time the dungeon lol. seriously, telling me im the one not thinking? lets just remove the challenge from the game. why not just remove mythic plus entirely, lets just go back to plain old normal and heroic dungeons! that way the "casual player can pull slower use CC ect and take longer"
Just get rid of depletion or use the idea that like in raid, every week now, the depletion can't occur starting at 12, then goes up every two weeks, from 13, then to 14, then to 15... if you're so obsessed with depleting. Add randomization on failure so people can't spam the same key if you want that. There are so many positive things you can do rather than deplete it to reduce the toxicity and focus on meta classes that would greatly increase the health of the mythic+ community. Its so toxic and awful right now.
This is what i wantef before until i realized how bad it really would be. I guess option is timer goes up and try to get fastest time but if you complete the dungeon you still are rewarded in some way. But still might create degenerative gameplay if ppl still wait for cds.
No. It’s really simple and obvious that the -15 seconds for death affix and no logical sense used on respawn locations are glaring issues. The crest update is bullshit and does absolutely nothing to fix critical mistakes like these.
Guys, I just had a eureka. Let's have an unscored version of keys, you pick any of those you like tournament-style, they can even contribute to gearing and weekly vault and not give people io. Then, you can keep depletes going for real keystones.
Imo the answer is so obvious and it will solve 80% of the problems of M+ - make it so that failing to time a key doesn't lower it's rank. The fact that they can't give obvious and simple question as to why they are not doing it, tells me everything I need to know about their mindset and game design. The reason they are not lowering it, it's to make people play for longer, this shit doesn't work. People would rather leave entirely than to bash their heads at the wall of randoms in M+
It would be like 100x worse. Just imagine waiting 4-5 minutes before every pull to get cooldowns back or even worse 10 minutes for bloodlust after every pull. dungeon runs would take like 4 hours and a death count would increase the toxicity from just towards tank and heal for dieing to everyone. Just imagine bob the hunter dieing 5 times to avoidable damage and your key is depleted
"Just imagine bob the hunter dieing 5 times to avoidable damage and your key is depleted" this already happens now and if you wanted to just pull it like the normal m+ pulls right now more power to you if you wanted to wait 10mins between a pull more power to you guess what its a game people should be able to play it how they want and still progress thier char
@@FallOut3Guru123 No cause you would have to balanced it around people waiting for BL for every pull. Its not part of good game balance that you can do a +10 key for MYTHIC vault gear with explorer path gear just cause you wait for BL for every pull. You would have to move the vault to like +15 for maximum loot and increase the threshold for KSM and KSH by like 500 M+ Rating to keep the M+ integrity. If you make the mythic gear vault free you even hurt the integrity of mythic raiding cause you give the same gear out for free.
@@Max-9871 also how tf u gonna kill the bosses with hard enrage timers in a 10 with explorer gear? And if they can do it in explorer gear guess what they are not the people this effects. Yall forget bosses exist and only think about how slow they gonna do trash
I keep seeing the argument about cool-down camping and I really have to disagree. Half the time dps cant even wait for the tank to pull the next pack and end up pulling it themselves, you really think they are going to just pitch a tent? I think people's natural impatience would balance that out. Besides that if you spend all night running keys that just deplete and never get anywhere you'd still be better off camping out in one dungeon all night and winning.
Or maybe we leave m+ alone and just make the dungeons better. And leave things like delves and torghast to their target audience by removing the death limit and the upper level limit, also making them give comparable rewards.
as mian tank I want big pulls remove key depletion problem solved instead of the slowfuck of a season we are in at the moment and chill on raid mythic mechanics on each pull
This is the sad state of m+ ... You reach to a point where ppl suggest changing the entire structure of the content... The solution is very simple even with the ridiculous idea that mobs just instantly cast after knockups, just make interrupts dont trigger cd if player didnt actually interrupt..
no time,r just beat the dungeon till 10, then when it´s not for gear but only for the love of the game add the timer. Problem solved. Death Limit would just incentivise the worst cc 4/5 mobs and do it 1by1 gameplay possible. That is soo obviously a bad idea, them even asking it is not a great sign.
Only 10% of ALL players are geared 620+. Blizz announced before TWW Release to strengthen solo player content. Now the majority of lower geared players are pushed into m+. And these customers like the Delve system.
So what? You don't need 620+ gear unless you are doing m+ or mythic raid, where you get that gear. I don't get it, do people play the game to get the highest gear possible? I farm gear to be able to play the content I like, not the other way around.
@@zuluschmidt if 90% of the playerbase just wants gear, for delves to give heroic gear consistently it will need to be harder than what it is now. Otherwise it's just pushing m+ player to delves which makes that group of players mad. Crazy to think that 90% of playerbase wants full 639, if that's what we all wanted 90% of players will be in tournament realms.
@@shiminsun1068 ngl, im a m+ pusher who started late in the season due to a surgery (started end of oct) and i did 4 total delves before i decided that it wasnt worth my time. my priest is now 634IL. i wont do delves because they just arent relevant to the content that i want to do. sure, you can gear up faster...but im a firm believer in practice makes perfect and practicing delves will not help me in the long run for M+. not everyone thinks like i do, but IL matters in high keys/raid just as much as skill does...and you can acquire both gear and skill from M+ but you cannot acquire skill from delves.
Just put more time in the timer. Even without a timer in heroic or normal dungeons its rush time . Its just the retail mentality. Min max all things cause wow is too much time consuming. People who want to take their time play delves,follower dungeons so solo content . Or classic of course but classic is the slowest way to play .
We've seen m+ without timer, it's called weekly no leavers and it's there every week1/2 of every season, and I believe most of ppl don't enjoy those, of course in this case you will also add on the death limits but it's essentially just a more careful version of weekly no leavers. I have no issue of removing the timer for keys below 8, 10 or 12 whatever the blizz decides should be, maybe it could even start at 6 then progress to higher as patch goes, but removing timer entirely just makes the whole thing ultra slow. No problem of letting people who wants to take it slow in a 6 to spend 5 hours there, but removing timers all together is not solving the problem, if the problem is the timer for casual player, would a 3 hours m+ really help them? Do most of wow players even have 3 hours to spend on game in one key? Why not at that point just commit to a casual raiding, it's even better it has no death limit.
Short answer: no, hell the FUCK no long answer: if you think this would be a good change, you're either incredibly short sighted or not doing high enough keys that your opinion on the subject matters, M+ definitely needs some big changes, but this definitely isn't it, it will cause far more problems than it solves, a death limit would promote waiting 10 minutes in between each pack, pulling one pack at a time, taking the time to cc everything...it would get old fast, to quote a much hated person who's relevant to all this: "You think you do, but you don't."
it would suck ass. they would design dungeons like they did in tbc. thats not fun and boring as shit. not to mention all the things izen mentioned i dont want keys taking an hour. as it is they should shorten up new dungeons to be like 15 minutes instead of 30
i stop m+ and know all i play with do the same.. i just more stress for healers ( im main heal ) and ppl will go afk and m+ takes forever. its the most lame idear aaa
would be boring make m+ a terrible thing u would have people doing the highest keys killing 1 mob at a time its stupid to assume people would even do a big pull if there was only a death limit dumbest idea ive heard yet this isn't a real thing right?
Removing timer, and replacing it with something (or just removing it compleatly) would make instantly kill keys. 99.99% of keys would become extremely easy, EXTREAMLY boring slogs by introducing all the insane trash mob workarounds you though abaut and then some compleately new that would get invented, with the only walls being Bosses...so basicly a raid...but with a difference of all bosses being "braindead easy, but insanely overtooned". You are wrong abaut one thing tho...there is currently no boss in the game that fills up entire arena with shit (outside of 2nd Boss of Grim Batol AFAIK) every single Boss that spawns shit on the ground, said shit despawns at the timer, with most of these Bosses you would need to place puddles in somewhat steategic way to min-max space anyway, but it isn't realy that hard. Anyway. Why is that so important...well once you just get oneshoted by unavoidable mechanics do you know who dont? Exacly! The tank! So the highest keys would be even worse expierience by META...and only viable tactic at some point being just bring 5 tanks... after all the only thing stopping us from raiding with ONLY tanks, or tanks and healers ignoring the dls are enrage TIMERS...so entire thing comes back over to the same conclusion. You have to have tiner or DPS gets yeeted out of the group
death limit is a terrible idea. this basically creates a new game mode. the idea of having both options with the key is an even worse idea. the player base is already small so people can't find groups. dividing that group is the last thing M+ needs.
@@TheVic18t you didn't see the crest changes, did you? Depletion is irrelevant unless it's a high key. In fact, depletion is good for low keys, you need to gitgud at some point, son, and do your homework if you want that loot and portals. It's called reward for a reason. If all the players that struggle with low keys just opened their spellbook and put interrupt on their bars, they'd be timing keys no problem whatsoever.
Jusr 3 prot pala and 1 dic priest and 1 ench the end! I fully suport it and so mythic plus will end by 80 with 90% across the board essentaily only the 0.1 wil progresse beyond plus 4 and plus 6! Ofc blizz will other 5 mechanics in each mob to make it intresting😂😂😂
Absolutely not. I do not want to play dungeon where we pull mobs one by one and finish 2 hours later. I never saw timer as a problem. In fact, it's a saving grace so you are not stuck in a bad group forever. We have raids for that.
Dont do this with the current unbalanced classes.. plus.. the fun part about m+ is go big with pulls and nuke things down. Ofcourse this needs to be balanced too. Death counter is not fun its only more stress..
Some of the most fun I've ever had was back in outlands. spamming heroic dungeons. and just pulling as much as we could, as fast as we could and made sure to CC the mobs that would cause problems. did we do it because there was a timer? nope that wasnt a thing. did we do it because of a death count? nope. We did it because it was fun.... Mythic + with a timer or a Death count system removes the FUN. thats why it needs to change Very few people run Mythic+ because they want to do the highest keys. Mostly everyone does them to upgrade their gear. This is proven correct because most of the keys being done are between 7-10. those people are doing mythic+ ONLY for the crests. a death system would make mythic + easier. but those who are better will gear up faster as they wouldnt be doing an hour long mythic+. they would be doing 2 mythic's in that amount of time. stop making the game centered around the top players that turn this GAME into a JOB!
I dont get it why its so hard, there is not need for death limit, time limit, or any limit. Are you able to complete the content? Good, here is your reward. People will sort the rest themselves. And dont worry, people wont be sitting in dungeons for hours without end. After a few tries its pretty clear if the group is able to do the content or not. Believe it or not, people dont always need handhilding and arbitrary limits to be conpetitive.
It wouldn't be dungeons anymore it would be mega delves, like he said they would need to be 2 to 3 boss and closer together with maybe a few minni bosses as dps checks. But then the game would just revolve around who had better ST for everything. AOE would be pointless....all the funnel classes would be completed dumpstered only hitting 1 mob at a time and it would be boring.
no problem with making mythic+ more like raid would much prefer spending 5 hours with a group than 5 seconds in a group then go back into lfg for 5 hours
There absolutely is problem with making mythic+ more like raid. If you want to raid, then raid, why would you take away content from people that don't enjoy raiding anymore?
you can spend 5 hours with a group in M+, you just wont time the key. youll still complete it, youll still get gear, youll still get crests and youll still get credit towards your vault. so, what problem *exactly* does removing the timer solve? is it for your ego? because i can assure you, timer or not, im not staying in a key for 2 hours with random players...especially if they dont know what they are doing. its totally unfair that one person should have to suffer because 4 others chose not to take the time to learn and understand a dungeon.
@ having the gameplay loop revolve around a timer doesn’t make players feel that way, where as for raid there’s no timer involved and the philosophy matches what I’m saying. Honestly challenge modes were the best system considering that everyone was scaled the same
@@IMTWOHUGE facts. you can literally play m+ as if there is no timer and still get loot and vault selections. idk why these kids want to remove the timer. if anything, it would make M+ worse. but the players that arent good at the game simply dont understand that. its wild
It's cute that they think removing the timer will make it easier for them lol. With a death count instead of timer M+ would be even more toxic than it is now. And if they just outright remove the Timer and effectively make M+ into M0 with infinite scaling. They would have to basically increase the difficulty. So basically dungeons would be 5man raids. And raids are harder than M+.
How about people just play better or just don't play M+. People play hard content then complain that it's hard, for what? So they can time a +12 while negating the skill actually needed to complete one? Too many can't accept that they are not good enough or their group isn't good enough to complete it. Content Creators now just exacerbate the issue putting it in an upload every week. Can't time a +10? Get better or don't do +10's. Same goes for any other key level. Not everyone is a MDI player or 3k rating M+ player, and it's okay not to be. Seems like no one can accept that fact.
i would hate it - im not a big fan of this idea cause it hard sounds to me - this will slow down m+ a lot - why pull 3 packs -w hat is absolut duable if you play with humans - if you just can pull 1 pack since there is no timer naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - we rly dont need back like classic gameplay with sap / frosttrap and sheep - atleast - i dont XD i dont think pala is the big meta he is right now - because of the dmg he does - sure - its solid - but if you just want big dps numbers for a tank- a good played brewmaster - what seems kind of a rare thing these days would be the big meta :> pala is the big meta - due to his 10000 utilitybuttons no other tank can bring the other day -when tank pala got a (rly small) nerf - my palaabusing friends cryed - and asked why - they nerf pala - when they just could buff the others - i asked them - "tell me - what would you buff if you dont wanna nerfs" "dmg - they said" - there is no world - a dmg buff to the other classes - would change anything XD utility is key - utility is king
Deathlimit would be the worst change ever
Imagine waiting for BL on every pull to make sure you can do the pulls
@@gooseg3822 I don't think people will tbh, I know I won't especially if I'm tanking. Sure maybe casuals will, but we all know they don't get inv to high keys for a reason.
Better idea is just to remove the depleting system and keep the timer and remove 100% of the death penalty.
tommy likey
not a giga pusher player but m+ without timer is m-boring+
If they remove timers and introduce death count, you can forget about getting invited in a key if you are a caster. 5 paladins meta incoming.
lol I can see that happening
Half the fun of m+ is the pacing of it due to the timer. If blizz fixed the tanking situation, reverted the stun changes, nerf / remove peril and make bricking a key less punishing, m+ would be way better. Pugging is just way too painful this tier. Having to push your key back after a brick is such a pain when pugging because the lower your key gets the worse the players signing up are and it makes it so painful to push the key back up. Not to mention the 1 hour wait time in between each brick if you are waiting for good players.
Having more than one chance to run a key before it drops a level would also help immensely considering a high key can brick on the first lust pull from one mistake. Waiting in LFG for ages just to have your key bricked on the first pull and then have to wait in LFG again just to push your key back up is a huge waste of time, makes pugging almost unbearable and makes people more likely to get salty due to the amount of time wasted.
I don't know, deaths in Mythic+ runs create a lot of stress already. If deaths were the ONLY difference between success and failure, you can bet that EVERY death would cause toxic responses from the dungeon group.
like that isnt how it is right now? u die to the first pack or 2 people die to the first pack 1-3 people leaving the key instantly
@@FallOut3Guru123 yes but what he means is if you stand in a puddle and perish, people are going to flame you WAY more than they would in regular M+. partly because they have the time to do it but also because you are contributing to the *only possible way* of not completing the key.
if someone misses a kick, it will be significantly more penalizing because there is no way to make up for people perishing.
yes, it is punishing right now. but it will be twice as bad if that is the only possible way to fail. and not every key is depleted on the first pack.
using "Perish" because apparently youtube doesnt like me to say the d e t h word. incredible social media
@@jgro9 good
Ppl would also wait for lust every pulls and crap. Its not a good solution
I’d prefer if they just expanded the delve system and gave it rewards parallel to mythic + but focused on survivability instead of speed. I enjoy mythic + as it is but could see value in the delve system being a fun way to play the game as a different option.
This answer pls .. if Delve gave same rewards I would be all over it
The mythic plus peeps already complain about people coming in with high ilvl from delve vaults and sucking at m+. This won't fix mythic plus.
I can see some real strange strategys commin up if there is no timer. Like going out and respeccing to pure single target for bosses.
Or healer respeccing to dps for trash etc.
Are they trying to make a fucking dungeon last 3 hours like a raid night ? wtf dude!
consider the fact they want you to do 1 pack of trash at a time, yes. Its not rewarding to do a big pull with lust if you wipe people will leave.
What’s the difference between failing 3 +15s over the course of 4 hours vs spending 4 hours for a proper completion of of +15?
@@Ellinov This just incentivizes ccing everything and pulling one small pack at a time, just a recipe for a horrible boring gameplay.
@@Ellinov LOL @ your logic. first of all, it doesnt take 4 hours to fail 3 15s. you can do that in 20 minutes. but doing it in 30 minutes is a much greater achievement than doing it in 4 hours.
this way, people like you who lack the skill and knowledge to complete a 15 in 30 minutes cant compare yourself to people like me who can complete it in 30 minutes.
dont take from me just because youre not good enough to do it yourself. thats your incentive. "im not good at the game, so the game should be made easier for me"
NO. you want your participation trophy? go do a normal, heroic or mythic 0 dungeon. or delves or raid finder. seriously, there is no reward for timing a 15 other than IO so why do you care? there is NO REWARD for timing a 15 other than IO so WHYDOYOUCARE?
@ “people like you can’t compare to people like me” HOLY EGO LMAOOOO. Bro is like 1.5k. Also, good luck getting INTO 3 15s in 20 minutes with how much I’m sure you get declined. 😂
Death limit would be massively abused.
Bring in big cd classes.
Wait for cds for each pull.
Profit.
Maybe combine the systems so the dungeon timer is much longer, but each death takes off a full minute.
that would make the people waiting for their CD's take 1hour per dungeon and the people speed running it get 2-3 dungeons done per hour it isnt abuse if its a loss in prog (time wise)
@FallOut3Guru123 Not if the key was a world's first 15, 16, 17, etc ..
@@itsacookie1 who cares about the 5 people doing a 19 which they have done with a timer
@FallOut3Guru123 The people who compete for those titles/rankings. Just because you don't care about something doesn't mean other people don't care.
"Tanks and healers hate how punishing it all is. Let's see if they'd like it to take 5x as long to be just as punished."
Leave the silly bad ideas for brawl-esque shenanigans like break the meta.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. healer here. you nailed it
the removal of the timer is such a dumb idea :D i think make delves ONLY solo content and balance it around solo contend and bump theyr rewards and difficulty and give solo players option ... Or solo Q M+ and keep lfg for premades
You think anyone would do mythic+ and raiding if delves has gear that was equal to them? lol. Delves would need to be hard af and everyone would cry.
@@chessiecat7860 nobody that matters would stop doing m+ and raiding. All those people that don't have interrupt binded would run away from the keys and do stress-free delves. Why is that a bad thing? That's a huge W. When people that didn't enjoy raiding got m+, it was praised as one of the best expansions ever.
Solo q m+ would never work for anything beyond +4 if it reaches that. Same reason LFR is how it is. If you ever went into it, you know it's full of animals. Also, it won't fix the tank/healer issue
Blizzard looking at a delve mechanic to improve mythic+ is so god damn sad and telling that this is just going to have to be one of those lessions that they need to learn the hard way.
Also I'd rather go to work than do keys where we have to cc mobs pack to pack just to wipe anyway when the tank dies to a tank buster
if the dungeon remained the exact same but instead of a timer its a death counter how would that effect anything? if u wanna speed run speed run if u wanna take it slow take it slow think about it for more than 2 seconds
@@FallOut3Guru123 how would it affect anything with a death counter instead of a timer atm? 12+ keys done right now demand a lack of deaths anyway, and certain small packs right now in the game are still capable of wombo comboing players. This is a matter of defensive bloat and the game being designed to instantly clap you if you dont proactively use a defensive. the moment blizzard gave dps player's agency over their own life was the moment the game took a turn for the worse. Incentivize dps to pick up healing and tanking by making those specs insane and able to carry keys instead of fucking shitting on those roles and killing off mythic+ in the process.
there is delves for that , just needs more work on them, or introduce new mode, but if they remove timer for m+ i just cant see any fun in that sadly.... Hope some new games or other MMOs are working on something like m+
So many reasons not to add a death timer. It’s irritating that of all the things we’ve been asking for, this is something they’re thinking of, which is something we are NOT asking for. Man. Just blows my mind after they did some good moves with the currency
No, because you will still have the biggest issue...people.
a lot of people liked s3 and 4 of DF.
so lets do a complete 180 instead.
-The Devs
@@jgro9 Man I LOVED those seasons. I hope we get another season like that. And player accountability needs to mean something because there are so many bricked keys that could have been upgraded too
So basically 4 tanks and a healer, gg
Yep. Imagine if raid bosses didn't have enrage timers...
I've finished M+ with 20+ deaths on time. So i dont think it is a better idea :D
Imagine waiting for BL every pull and getting out and in again to change talents 😂
People keep saying that, but almost no one would even consider it. It just isn't a fun thing to do, and is also unlikely to be necessary. You would see much smaller, safer pulls though.
I think adding a vote to pause could solve some of the issues with m+
OT Question. I see that when you are facing in combat a pull of mobs, other mobs that are not in combat have almost transparent nameplates. Which is the option on plater to do this ??
The whole point of m+ is having a timer and speedrunning the dungeon, searching for new approaches and optimizations. Keep that for the delves.
m+ is meant for infinitely scaling difficulty not speed running
@@FallOut3Guru123 which it does do already. going from a 14 to a 15 is a big difference and, if you only timed the 14 with 30 seconds left, you will most certainly need a new strategy to time the 15. youll have to pull bigger, youll have to do more damage, and youll have to survive better. thats the *whole point* of the timer. you prog the 15 until you get it right, and then you have to reprog everything on a 16 with once again, bigger pulls, more damage, and surviving better. you probably wouldnt know about this because you sound like a player that is hard stuck in sub 10 keys.
Getting rid of the timer makes dungeons basically mini raids where you just wait for cds every pull. No thanks
If you dont want to deal with the timer do base mythic or heroics
THANK YOU! this is exactly what ive been saying.
you left out normal dungeons though. cant forget about those XD
These casuals want the best gear is the problem that is why they funnel into M+. Then get mad they can't do it. Granted M+ does need some changes, but removing the timer for a death count ain't it.
Maybe have a stacking debuff that increases the longer you don't kill something resetting after killing a mob. (I don't like the idea of timerless m+)
I'm for it, honestly. Sounds like a fun way to mix things up.
It's really simple. Keep the timer, but make the key depletion. Tied to them death count that way, the key bushers are still trying to beat the timer for my oh wild casuals and people just trying to get tens done, we'll just have to worry about not dying
lolat the random DK malding about his breath after he dies and ONLY after he dies
lol
i cannot wait for tanks to do one mob by one mob , holy good suggestion blizzard , its gonna be so fun doing a m+ run that takes two hours , blizzard is hitting rock bottom on the m+ scene , im slowly getting turned off playing wow the more i look at what they suggest on their survey , just remove the god damn peril , bring back s3 tanking and healing , remove those cringe dungeon pools , stonevault , echoes last boss , city of threads second and third boss , just adress this bs and stop asking players , multi billionaire company asking for help to fix their game , what a time we live in.
they had the sweet spot in df s3 like you said, and they ruined it
Tbf Blizz didn't come up with this idea, some TH-camrs and casuals suggested having a death count instead of timer. That's where Blizz got the idea, and seeing how bad Season one was is probably why they are considering this. Even tho this would make things worse not better.
Nope, it would still lead to the toxicity you see everyday in M+.
I would argue the toxicity would be worse. If you have a death count instead of a timer then lives would be far more limited than it is with the timer. Somewhere between 10-20, so everyone will flame someone the moment you die even once. This will also effect the meta, you think it's bad now. Only classes with good defensives will be invited or they will just bring more high DPS tanks.
Remove death penalty or make a spawn after every boss.
Give bonus loot for deathless in time.(Runes, gold, valorpoints)
Dont depleat keys or at least give them stacks.
Bring back interrupts with stuns.
Give mith track gear at key lvl 14 (easyer to do when stuns interrupt again)
mobs with tank busters need to be more spread out. So the tank can pull big without 2 tankbuster mobs. Make the cd of tankbusters bigger, let them hit even harder.
Less despells in dungeons.
Give every healer cr and every tank bl.
Thats what i would do to fix m+
Also, death limit m+ would kill m+. The defensivecreep affects some classes way more.
Dude why do you guys actually think this sounds good? This sounds like a the most dog shit change possible
Which probably means Bliz is seriously considering it… 🤦♂️
Out of curiosity, why is it bad to you?
A death timer would be horrible: nobody wants to base the game on cautiousness.
I would love to see something based on speed to try to introduce some of the fun the MDI is showing.
The system actually has 2 parameters: difficulty and speed. If you set speed and use difficulty, you have the current m+ system.
If you set difficulty and use speed you have the MDI.
KEEP the timer... If a timer gives you anxiety then M+ is not for you
It should just be a low key alternative for the casuals, activable below like 12 level of key. It won't work for high keys, because everyone will hardcap at the key level where one shots start happening, but a ladder must exist, so how will they determine who is better when 10 000 people do a +18? By the time they did it in, and at that point the timer is back, even after it is gone.
death limit would be the BEST change they could ever do! It would mean the better you are at YOUR role/class/spec, and not about how good you are at the "meta" option.
No
Lol oh you sweet summer child. Removing the timer for a death count would make meta choice even worse. People would start bringing classes with only great defensives.
I still feel like all the weird and wacky thoughts about dynamic crests and death caps vs timers wouldn't exist if myth track vaults came from 8s and gilded crests came from 7s. Like Dragonflight. We're getting this cloud of discussion because the difficulty of getting your weekly myth piece has jumped a bit higher than the average player is happy with. Duck it back down again and all of this goes away and people who don't want to push will farm gear on 7 alts and have a great season, and people who do want to push will do 20s or 25s or something and have a great season.
The whole thing that makes m+ fun is it being a race. Otherwise you just play 5 tanks..
if he introduces a death limit, forget that you will be accepted for the keys, only cats and only cats will be taken into account
Let say they do that. The meta will now be "be perfect at every small fight or lose"
M+2 and beyond will be way harder to balance the fact that you don't need to rush. So basically you'll have to face current m+5 mobs in the new m+2 and mob difficulty will now grow faster than previously as now more precision and dps will be expected for each pack. Timer might seem like an issue but it isn't. Complexity of packs, class perception and balance, amount of healers and tanks... These are to me what might reduce the number of keys. Not the timer.
People forget that there are two types of keys people run; Push and Farm.
Time vs Death counter only matters for Push keys.
For Farm keys, which are the majority of keys, speed would already be king if we removed the timer from the current system. Nothing would change.
For Push keys there wouldn't be much of a change either really. Because the number one reason for Push key failures is time loss from deaths. Meaning that in the end it all comes out a wash.
The idea of wait for 3/10 min between every pull assumes that nobody will fuck up thanks to a lower enemy count but in the end that becomes moot as well as we end up with more attempts at lower risk (death counter) vs fewer attempts at slightly higher risk. 30 pulls at 1% risk of failure vs 6 pulls at 5%. The difference isn't large enough to bother with in the end. Speed will win out in the end since you can do more attempts with the speed group in the same amount of time potentially tripling (ore more) the rewards if luck favors you.
For the stuff I do, I would take the death counter over the timer any day.
It would NOT better, everybody in the group will select the most tanky spec and use tank trinkets to survive the keys and what's the point of that? Like 5 blood DKs
Let me fix this for you, friend. I don't like this idea. There you go now, it's factual.
People are already doing that. Before the major nerf to City of Threads, groups run with 3 tanks + 2 healers. Players will play the game abnormally when the content gets rough. It's always the fault of the service. If the environment gets so extreme, you better believe that everyone will be using tanking trinkets only. It's never the player's fault. Blizzard's balancing design is garbage.
if you think blood dk is a tanky spec- pls - be free to make some m+ keys as a healer with blood dk as tank ^^
But these issues would likely happen at a higher level of key imo and be less of a detriment in 12’s (in theory anyway, who knows with the player base lol)
Maybe different modes for keys? For example, beating the timer is your typical key, while beating the death count makes the packs and boss tougher. Smarter pulls and cc would matter, while still adding a timer will offer bonus rewards.
horrible idea. a 30 minute dungeon would take an hour because we would just sit and wait for 2 minute CDs, defensives, bloodlust, certain classes would just build up their bonus crap like enhance does...
do people even think before they speak?
players who are too stressed to do keys because of a timer obviously have negative iq, so no
Wasting your time isn't really an exploit if anything you're paying it with your life...time.
Add to that the fact that you are not having any more rewards doing so.
You could fail two times dungeons in an hour or you could complete a death limit dungeon in that same time. Idk about you but I’d rather commit more time to getting more rewards.
you are the one not thinking this only helps the community people can choose to keep running fast and guess what u get rewarded more becuase u get more dungoens done the casual players can pull slower use CC ect and take longer whats the prob?
@@FallOut3Guru123 then just do lower keys where youll have more time to time the dungeon lol. seriously, telling me im the one not thinking?
lets just remove the challenge from the game. why not just remove mythic plus entirely, lets just go back to plain old normal and heroic dungeons! that way the "casual player can pull slower use CC ect and take longer"
So best comp is 2 tanks 1 aug 2 heals ? x)
aug and healers are to squishy 5 tanks they can live mostly on their own and prot pally and bear can offheal to ofset missing healling
5 tanks would be meta and you pull 1 mob at a time, can't fail they key at all. A run might take 5 hours though lol
Since they are even worst balancing survival than dps, well i prefer the m+ just as bad as it is right now.
Just get rid of depletion or use the idea that like in raid, every week now, the depletion can't occur starting at 12, then goes up every two weeks, from 13, then to 14, then to 15... if you're so obsessed with depleting. Add randomization on failure so people can't spam the same key if you want that. There are so many positive things you can do rather than deplete it to reduce the toxicity and focus on meta classes that would greatly increase the health of the mythic+ community. Its so toxic and awful right now.
This is what i wantef before until i realized how bad it really would be. I guess option is timer goes up and try to get fastest time but if you complete the dungeon you still are rewarded in some way. But still might create degenerative gameplay if ppl still wait for cds.
Easy solution. Just let the group decide right before the start. Timer or death counter
No. It’s really simple and obvious that the -15 seconds for death affix and no logical sense used on respawn locations are glaring issues. The crest update is bullshit and does absolutely nothing to fix critical mistakes like these.
Oh god that is a terrible idea.... the toxicity would be massive.
I would like to see people doing 5 tank runs as they pretend someone is making them do this, and they are trapped.
Guys, I just had a eureka. Let's have an unscored version of keys, you pick any of those you like tournament-style, they can even contribute to gearing and weekly vault and not give people io. Then, you can keep depletes going for real keystones.
Imo the answer is so obvious and it will solve 80% of the problems of M+ - make it so that failing to time a key doesn't lower it's rank. The fact that they can't give obvious and simple question as to why they are not doing it, tells me everything I need to know about their mindset and game design. The reason they are not lowering it, it's to make people play for longer, this shit doesn't work. People would rather leave entirely than to bash their heads at the wall of randoms in M+
The time is a pain point and needs to change it has been a point of toxicity, but a death limit isn't great either...idk wth they are gonna do lol.
A combination of both systems might work. Make the timer twice as long, but dying takes off a full minute or something.
It would be like 100x worse. Just imagine waiting 4-5 minutes before every pull to get cooldowns back or even worse 10 minutes for bloodlust after every pull. dungeon runs would take like 4 hours and a death count would increase the toxicity from just towards tank and heal for dieing to everyone. Just imagine bob the hunter dieing 5 times to avoidable damage and your key is depleted
"Just imagine bob the hunter dieing 5 times to avoidable damage and your key is depleted" this already happens now and if you wanted to just pull it like the normal m+ pulls right now more power to you if you wanted to wait 10mins between a pull more power to you guess what its a game people should be able to play it how they want and still progress thier char
@@FallOut3Guru123 No cause you would have to balanced it around people waiting for BL for every pull. Its not part of good game balance that you can do a +10 key for MYTHIC vault gear with explorer path gear just cause you wait for BL for every pull. You would have to move the vault to like +15 for maximum loot and increase the threshold for KSM and KSH by like 500 M+ Rating to keep the M+ integrity. If you make the mythic gear vault free you even hurt the integrity of mythic raiding cause you give the same gear out for free.
@@Max-9871 if u wanna spend 5 hours in a key to get 1 item for the week just let em
@@Max-9871 also how tf u gonna kill the bosses with hard enrage timers in a 10 with explorer gear? And if they can do it in explorer gear guess what they are not the people this effects. Yall forget bosses exist and only think about how slow they gonna do trash
I keep seeing the argument about cool-down camping and I really have to disagree. Half the time dps cant even wait for the tank to pull the next pack and end up pulling it themselves, you really think they are going to just pitch a tent? I think people's natural impatience would balance that out. Besides that if you spend all night running keys that just deplete and never get anywhere you'd still be better off camping out in one dungeon all night and winning.
REMOVE TIMER AND DO NOT ADD A DEATH LIMIT!
I can only see a death counter getting healers blamed for every failed run. No thanks.
Or just remove timer for loot and add cosmetic reward currency for people who complete timer
You still get loot and vault slot if you don't time key. Do you not know this?
Why not include a death limits and awards for timing?
Or maybe we leave m+ alone and just make the dungeons better. And leave things like delves and torghast to their target audience by removing the death limit and the upper level limit, also making them give comparable rewards.
as mian tank I want big pulls remove key depletion problem solved instead of the slowfuck of a season we are in at the moment and chill on raid mythic mechanics on each pull
So you want to be an invincible tank and not use your brain at all. got it.
@ yeah I want to have fun and feel invincible sounds amazing as if … if I dare to say “GAME”
This is the sad state of m+ ... You reach to a point where ppl suggest changing the entire structure of the content...
The solution is very simple even with the ridiculous idea that mobs just instantly cast after knockups, just make interrupts dont trigger cd if player didnt actually interrupt..
It would be horrible to pull 2 mobs at a time
no time,r just beat the dungeon till 10, then when it´s not for gear but only for the love of the game add the timer. Problem solved.
Death Limit would just incentivise the worst cc 4/5 mobs and do it 1by1 gameplay possible. That is soo obviously a bad idea, them even asking it is not a great sign.
Only 10% of ALL players are geared 620+.
Blizz announced before TWW Release to strengthen solo player content.
Now the majority of lower geared players are pushed into m+.
And these customers like the Delve system.
So what? You don't need 620+ gear unless you are doing m+ or mythic raid, where you get that gear. I don't get it, do people play the game to get the highest gear possible? I farm gear to be able to play the content I like, not the other way around.
It seems that 90% of the playerbase thinks similar.
@@zuluschmidt if 90% of the playerbase just wants gear, for delves to give heroic gear consistently it will need to be harder than what it is now. Otherwise it's just pushing m+ player to delves which makes that group of players mad. Crazy to think that 90% of playerbase wants full 639, if that's what we all wanted 90% of players will be in tournament realms.
@@shiminsun1068 ngl, im a m+ pusher who started late in the season due to a surgery (started end of oct) and i did 4 total delves before i decided that it wasnt worth my time. my priest is now 634IL. i wont do delves because they just arent relevant to the content that i want to do. sure, you can gear up faster...but im a firm believer in practice makes perfect and practicing delves will not help me in the long run for M+.
not everyone thinks like i do, but IL matters in high keys/raid just as much as skill does...and you can acquire both gear and skill from M+ but you cannot acquire skill from delves.
Really? That's crazy...back when anyone played this game I could get a fresh alt to around that ilvl over a weekend...
M+ with death limit .. I dont need dps at all ... 4 tanks 1 healer and gg
Just put more time in the timer.
Even without a timer in heroic or normal dungeons its rush time .
Its just the retail mentality.
Min max all things cause wow is too much time consuming.
People who want to take their time play delves,follower dungeons so solo content .
Or classic of course but classic is the slowest way to play .
If the top ~5% aren't happy, it's probably a good idea.
We've seen m+ without timer, it's called weekly no leavers and it's there every week1/2 of every season, and I believe most of ppl don't enjoy those, of course in this case you will also add on the death limits but it's essentially just a more careful version of weekly no leavers.
I have no issue of removing the timer for keys below 8, 10 or 12 whatever the blizz decides should be, maybe it could even start at 6 then progress to higher as patch goes, but removing timer entirely just makes the whole thing ultra slow. No problem of letting people who wants to take it slow in a 6 to spend 5 hours there, but removing timers all together is not solving the problem, if the problem is the timer for casual player, would a 3 hours m+ really help them? Do most of wow players even have 3 hours to spend on game in one key? Why not at that point just commit to a casual raiding, it's even better it has no death limit.
Short answer: no, hell the FUCK no
long answer: if you think this would be a good change, you're either incredibly short sighted or not doing high enough keys that your opinion on the subject matters, M+ definitely needs some big changes, but this definitely isn't it, it will cause far more problems than it solves, a death limit would promote waiting 10 minutes in between each pack, pulling one pack at a time, taking the time to cc everything...it would get old fast, to quote a much hated person who's relevant to all this: "You think you do, but you don't."
"It would cause far more problems than it solves".
Me: So in other words Blizz is definitely gonna do it then...fuk.
it would suck ass. they would design dungeons like they did in tbc. thats not fun and boring as shit. not to mention all the things izen mentioned
i dont want keys taking an hour. as it is they should shorten up new dungeons to be like 15 minutes instead of 30
commenting off just the title. I think timer and death limiter would be better...
Waiting for cds, does not sound appealing. M+ needs some redisign, I have been avoiding it since shadowlands.
Just run all tanks with sustain / dispel and eventually you should reach the end on a death timer at truly high keys.
most m+ bosses have hard enrages so no that wouldnt work little one
@@FallOut3Guru123most good tanks Just do enoug dmg or can survive that little one.
@ Fair enough. Last time I ran a mythic was early shadowlands haha. Curious to know how the two healers they mentioned would work with the enrage.
i stop m+ and know all i play with do the same.. i just more stress for healers ( im main heal ) and ppl will go afk and m+ takes forever. its the most lame idear aaa
would be boring make m+ a terrible thing u would have people doing the highest keys killing 1 mob at a time its stupid to assume people would even do a big pull if there was only a death limit dumbest idea ive heard yet this isn't a real thing right?
Imagine the amount of toxicity and flaming this would cause especially with the amount of one shots in M+.
Removing timer, and replacing it with something (or just removing it compleatly) would make instantly kill keys. 99.99% of keys would become extremely easy, EXTREAMLY boring slogs by introducing all the insane trash mob workarounds you though abaut and then some compleately new that would get invented, with the only walls being Bosses...so basicly a raid...but with a difference of all bosses being "braindead easy, but insanely overtooned".
You are wrong abaut one thing tho...there is currently no boss in the game that fills up entire arena with shit (outside of 2nd Boss of Grim Batol AFAIK) every single Boss that spawns shit on the ground, said shit despawns at the timer, with most of these Bosses you would need to place puddles in somewhat steategic way to min-max space anyway, but it isn't realy that hard. Anyway. Why is that so important...well once you just get oneshoted by unavoidable mechanics do you know who dont? Exacly! The tank! So the highest keys would be even worse expierience by META...and only viable tactic at some point being just bring 5 tanks... after all the only thing stopping us from raiding with ONLY tanks, or tanks and healers ignoring the dls are enrage TIMERS...so entire thing comes back over to the same conclusion. You have to have tiner or DPS gets yeeted out of the group
death limit is a terrible idea. this basically creates a new game mode. the idea of having both options with the key is an even worse idea. the player base is already small so people can't find groups. dividing that group is the last thing M+ needs.
This will never happen, imagine afk every 10mins lust reset for one single pack. Nty
I say keep the timer, but don't make it THE goal - just a separate achievement/reward/points.
It already is exactly that, though? If you don't time the key, you still get loot and vault slot.
@ no, you get key depletion, no points, and less than half the crests. You want to put less pressure on timing keys.
@@TheVic18t you didn't see the crest changes, did you? Depletion is irrelevant unless it's a high key. In fact, depletion is good for low keys, you need to gitgud at some point, son, and do your homework if you want that loot and portals. It's called reward for a reason. If all the players that struggle with low keys just opened their spellbook and put interrupt on their bars, they'd be timing keys no problem whatsoever.
@@TheVic18t and you mention points? You want points for being bad at the game?
@@Ennar dude, reading comprehension
Jusr 3 prot pala and 1 dic priest and 1 ench the end! I fully suport it and so mythic plus will end by 80 with 90% across the board essentaily only the 0.1 wil progresse beyond plus 4 and plus 6! Ofc blizz will other 5 mechanics in each mob to make it intresting😂😂😂
Absolutely not. I do not want to play dungeon where we pull mobs one by one and finish 2 hours later. I never saw timer as a problem. In fact, it's a saving grace so you are not stuck in a bad group forever. We have raids for that.
Lol no, people will pull 2 adds per pull
Dont do this with the current unbalanced classes.. plus.. the fun part about m+ is go big with pulls and nuke things down. Ofcourse this needs to be balanced too. Death counter is not fun its only more stress..
what stops you from doing big pulls with a death counter?
Some of the most fun I've ever had was back in outlands. spamming heroic dungeons. and just pulling as much as we could, as fast as we could and made sure to CC the mobs that would cause problems. did we do it because there was a timer? nope that wasnt a thing. did we do it because of a death count? nope. We did it because it was fun.... Mythic + with a timer or a Death count system removes the FUN. thats why it needs to change
Very few people run Mythic+ because they want to do the highest keys. Mostly everyone does them to upgrade their gear. This is proven correct because most of the keys being done are between 7-10. those people are doing mythic+ ONLY for the crests. a death system would make mythic + easier. but those who are better will gear up faster as they wouldnt be doing an hour long mythic+. they would be doing 2 mythic's in that amount of time.
stop making the game centered around the top players that turn this GAME into a JOB!
I dont get it why its so hard, there is not need for death limit, time limit, or any limit.
Are you able to complete the content? Good, here is your reward.
People will sort the rest themselves.
And dont worry, people wont be sitting in dungeons for hours without end.
After a few tries its pretty clear if the group is able to do the content or not.
Believe it or not, people dont always need handhilding and arbitrary limits to be conpetitive.
It wouldn't be dungeons anymore it would be mega delves, like he said they would need to be 2 to 3 boss and closer together with maybe a few minni bosses as dps checks. But then the game would just revolve around who had better ST for everything. AOE would be pointless....all the funnel classes would be completed dumpstered only hitting 1 mob at a time and it would be boring.
no problem with making mythic+ more like raid would much prefer spending 5 hours with a group than 5 seconds in a group then go back into lfg for 5 hours
There absolutely is problem with making mythic+ more like raid. If you want to raid, then raid, why would you take away content from people that don't enjoy raiding anymore?
you can spend 5 hours with a group in M+, you just wont time the key. youll still complete it, youll still get gear, youll still get crests and youll still get credit towards your vault.
so, what problem *exactly* does removing the timer solve? is it for your ego? because i can assure you, timer or not, im not staying in a key for 2 hours with random players...especially if they dont know what they are doing. its totally unfair that one person should have to suffer because 4 others chose not to take the time to learn and understand a dungeon.
@ having the gameplay loop revolve around a timer doesn’t make players feel that way, where as for raid there’s no timer involved and the philosophy matches what I’m saying. Honestly challenge modes were the best system considering that everyone was scaled the same
I would quit wow if they did this. The game doesn’t need to be over simplified.
Whoever comes up with these ideas have brainrot for years and has maybe 2 working cells left.
I absolutely hate the timer. That's the #1 reason I don't play M+.
Raids have a timer also. It's just not in your face. We call it enrage.
You dont play m+ because you cant, youre not good enough for it
@@IMTWOHUGE facts. you can literally play m+ as if there is no timer and still get loot and vault selections. idk why these kids want to remove the timer. if anything, it would make M+ worse. but the players that arent good at the game simply dont understand that. its wild
It's cute that they think removing the timer will make it easier for them lol. With a death count instead of timer M+ would be even more toxic than it is now. And if they just outright remove the Timer and effectively make M+ into M0 with infinite scaling. They would have to basically increase the difficulty. So basically dungeons would be 5man raids. And raids are harder than M+.
m+ is fun because of the timer thats the only thing makes it Exciting and fun
How about people just play better or just don't play M+. People play hard content then complain that it's hard, for what? So they can time a +12 while negating the skill actually needed to complete one? Too many can't accept that they are not good enough or their group isn't good enough to complete it. Content Creators now just exacerbate the issue putting it in an upload every week. Can't time a +10? Get better or don't do +10's. Same goes for any other key level. Not everyone is a MDI player or 3k rating M+ player, and it's okay not to be. Seems like no one can accept that fact.
they are two of the same thing death is time time is death currently so someone dies your just gonna leave jus tlike if they die now
Remove timers! Trash mobs should be trash and bosses should be bosses. I don't care if someone wants to waste their lives waiting for BL every pack
No, just go play raids where trash is trash and bosses are bosses.
i would hate it - im not a big fan of this idea
cause it hard sounds to me - this will slow down m+ a lot - why pull 3 packs -w hat is absolut duable if you play with humans - if you just can pull 1 pack since there is no timer
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - we rly dont need back like classic gameplay with sap / frosttrap and sheep - atleast - i dont XD
i dont think pala is the big meta he is right now - because of the dmg he does - sure - its solid - but if you just want big dps numbers for a tank- a good played brewmaster - what seems kind of a rare thing these days would be the big meta :>
pala is the big meta - due to his 10000 utilitybuttons no other tank can bring
the other day -when tank pala got a (rly small) nerf - my palaabusing friends cryed - and asked why - they nerf pala - when they just could buff the others
- i asked them - "tell me - what would you buff if you dont wanna nerfs"
"dmg - they said" - there is no world - a dmg buff to the other classes - would change anything XD
utility is key - utility is king
Scrap cooldiwns. Scrap hero etc. nothing to wait for now. But no I’m not a fan
just5 prot pallly grps