Ahh the straight pull Mannlicher's are my absolute favorite rifles. I want to have a collection of them. The wedge lock is so smart and simple I love the idea.
The stacking rod has a hole for the firing pin so that you can push the bolt face onto the stacking rod to disassemble the bolt. If only I could find a bolt for my M1886 as I have the rest. Would make a great companion to the M1888. The rounds are the same as Werndl rounds.
The rifle is absolutely beautiful. Everything of a certain age has bumps and dings from being hauled through hedges!! I wish I could see such a rifle in the flesh as it were.
Had one of the later models and replaced the barrel with one in .444 Marlin, shortened to 18 inches with full stock, made one hell of a nice deer brush gun, took a nice white tail doe with it about 25 years ago.
Kyros Droztamyr. No, they aren't bad. They still use the unidirectional clip. That didn't get changed until later. The M95 would be the one that you'd take hunting. It uses the omnidirectional clips so loading is easier, the action is stronger, having done away with the dropping block wedge locking system, and the bolt provides for some primary extraction so as to help prevent stuck casings.
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Bloke on the Range. I knew there was a reason I didn't own any of the Austrian Mannlicher rifles.
Ok then, I'll be that guy. Mannlicher obviously realised early on. That the ping from a top ejecting clip would alert the enemy that you had fired your last round. sorry, but someone had to be that guy.
If it was indeed the rifle that goes "ping", then Steyr must've leased them back from the Austrian government that they sold them to. That way, they would fall under the Imperially-supported R&D budget as test pieces, and not the corporate account. Sorry about that, but this is probably the only place on the interweb where that joke would be appreciated😁
No the reason they didn't let the clip pop out the top was because the resulting ping would alert the enemy to the fact that you were out of Ammo, so they could charge you. Just like with the M1! Yes I'm fucking with you.
cool...now tape a pvc tube along one side, slide a dowel with a foregrip on one end through it, tie the other end of the dowel to the bolt handle, and use it like a pump action :p
It'd be cool if you could come across the 8x52mmR version that used BP, and compare the two. The weapons from the end of the Black Powder Era was so cool, as everyone was trying to make the most of it, while racing to get smokeless online!
This video makes me want an Austrian straight pull so badly but I'm also saddened by quality examples' relative rarity in the US. So many sticky bolts...
probably no primary extraction because of it being BP and therefore low pressure loads. The M.H. only added a longer lever for extraction due to BP fouling. It brings the question when did rifles first start being made with primary extraction feature, probably with the use of smokeless powders.
Will Mathieson Nope, primary extraction appeared with the first generation bolt actions. For example the Vetterli series, Mauser M71 and Portuguese 1886 Kropatschek.
I saw one once with a spiral magazine, opposed to en bloc. Also, would like to see a shooting video of the Vetterli-Vitale M1871/84/15 in 6.5mm. Supposedly Italians converted 600,000 to this pattern, so they must not all have blown up.(When I was a teen, a kid in our group had one his grandfather purchased in 1960's. We shot Norma, US military production and Italian milsurp and it new blew. Not certain I would do that today.)
Curious why you would not consider to shoot the 6.5 VV conversion. Do you feel it is unsafe? Personally, although I shot one with friends as a teen, without incident, I'd be hesitant today as an adult, just because the way it looks. Virtually nothing of merit is available on this variant and would like to see you, Ian or Othias do a quality video on this rifle.
Dor Aran I see no problem with shooting one with appropriate reloads, it’s just that I have yet to see one for sale here. For my area of interest I’d be far more interested in an original Vetterli-Vitali in 10.4mm
I have seen old gun magazines and they were far more available in US than the 10.4 mm. Often paired with Snider conversions in gun ads (both for $9.95 each in 1966 dollars). These are not an uncommon sight at many US gun shows, but some turn up with plugged chambers. The unplugged ones usually in the $200-400 USD range. Also, an importer was turning them into floor lamps! I guess Interarms, in the 50's or 60's must have gotten most Italian stock of these and brought them into US market. As a slightly related side note, a reprint of the 1903 Sears catalogue lists the Swiss 10.4 Vetterli for sale. US ammo companies loaded the rimfire cartridge to about time of WW2, so that must have been somewhat of a popular rifle, especially among the poorer farmers, etc. that could not afford a Winchester or Remington.
Bloke! Can you do a small bio on yourself? (Background with Langauges, how you got into firearms, etc...).You're an incredibly knowlegable guy. Have a happy and safe holidays!
Mine is a little more beat up, ok more than a little. While metal work is ok and with a service could shoot again, the stock it full of dents and other markings. Worst of all it has a large crack from the magazine to the bolt on the left hand side. No way would I use it whilst it is like that. Someday I shall fix the stock and shoot the gun. Just gotta find me a en block clip for it! Things are like hens teeth! Also for some reason the action on mine is incredibly stiff to operate. I have removed the bolt and lube it up, but still a bugger to open! Any ideas why?
Much details. I have one question whether the cocking bolt head will drop down by its gravity while shooting higher targets? How much pound is need to unlocking and cocking the bolt?
Green tangle To open the bolt you need to overcome the force of the very heavy striker spring which has the dual function of propelling the firing pin and biasing the telescoping parts of the bolt in a compressed state. This spring is far heavier than the cocking piece, thus firing upward would not cause spontaneous unlocking of the bolt.
Eureka! Thanks for your explanations. Further question: The firing spring will lose its force on the cocking handle after firing, in that case it still has the potential to drop down. (Just guessing for lacking related rifle information)
Green tangle. The spring force biasing the bolt closed is always there. The spring is compressed further when cocked, thus even in the fired condition you still need to overcome the spring bias to open the bolt. They really did think it through ;-)
Great! I notice that there are lots of smoke ahead the muzzle. Does it means the M1886's lock system can't withstand the high press of smokeless gunpowder? Thus it was replaced by new M1895 rifle.
Green tangle It did transition to smokeless (M1888 and 1888/90) rifles but ultimately yes, the single small-ish point lock between bolt and receiver is not great for high pressure smokeless so they moved on.
Imagine that for a sec.. middle of a huge battle, go to throw in a fresh clip, and rim jam chambering the first round. No bueno. Beautiful rifle though
Not really, for about 2 years it was the god of all rifles, remember the Lebel was fireing smokeless while everybody else was NOT, in comparison you where firing a freaking laser with the 1886 when everybody else is lobbing rainbows with their rifles.....when everybody else got smokeless though, yes it was outdated. only thing that made the Lebel the best rifle in the world for those twoish years was the cartridge, everything else was outdated, hell i'd rather have a Krag-Jørgensen then a Lebel.
Bloke I have a problem with a k-31 bolt. The inter bolt body (the one covered by the bolt sleeve) doesn't rotate freely to allow the handle nub to be inserted. All the other parts are good because I tested them with another inter bolt. I'm thinking the lugs aren't going deep enough to allow free rotation (what I mean is I think it's getting held up on the interior lugs of the piece that is the back of the bolt). Ever heard of bad parts before for the k-31 or this problem. I'm sure it's rare or I may just be stupid and I'm making a mistake.
Took a look at the bolt of my own K-31 to see what the problem could be. Have you checked if the extractor is set properly? The back of the extractor should sit below the surface of the inner body. If it protrudes out of the body that could lead exactly to the problem you described. The lugs themselves should have some wriggle room so i suspect the problem lies somewhere else.
Miguel Hernandez well it was worth a try. But if it doesn't fit with everything else removed then something is bad. I agree with Simon Smith that a gunsmith would be a good idea because as far as i know all of those rifles were delivered in guaranteed working order. If yours doesn't fit anymore then something may have broken. In my opinion it is not a good idea to take risks with something that is supposed to go Bang.
Are the cartridge clips available? Have you encountered extraction problems and had to use a block of wood to hit the bolt to extract. I know someone who occasionally shoots a Mannlicher and is always having problems with it, "old age"
Never had any extractor issues personally, but then again I keep loads mild since I’m only punching paper at 50m. In the US you can still come across original boxed ammo but sadly not here
It might if you have dirt, bullets and shrapnel coming at you! Anyway, yes the clip falls away as soon as the last cartridge is chambered. All Mannlicher systems after the ‘86 followed this principle.
Haha, my comment was just as tongue in cheek! I know it's the worn out clips causing problems. I get similar problems when I take my Berthier to the range.
execution ˌɛksɪˈkjuːʃ(ə)n/Submit noun 1. the carrying out of a plan, order, or course of action. "he was fascinated by the entire operation and its execution" synonyms: implementation, carrying out, accomplishment, performance, effecting, bringing off, bringing about, achievement, carrying off, carrying through, completion, enactment, enforcement, discharge, prosecution, engineering, attainment, realization, fulfilment; perpetration "the execution of the plan" 2. the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person. "the execution of juveniles is prohibited by international law" synonyms: capital punishment, the death penalty, being put to death, killing; More
That click when the bolt slams shut is so satisfying :3
Ahh the straight pull Mannlicher's are my absolute favorite rifles. I want to have a collection of them. The wedge lock is so smart and simple I love the idea.
That's just how it was done in the 19th Century Austria. Where the men were men and so were the women.
Agreed
Bamboozled! This was clearly a Chap on The Range episode!
Quality episode tho, looking forward to more Chap on The Range content :)
Are you sure it wasn't the headspace?...... :-)... Great clip though. Sometimes it's just as good to see the trouble shooting.
Nonsense, it’s a well known fact that guns only have headspace issues in North America!
Beat me to it.
I'd better get on it then...!
You meant “troubleshooting” or “trouble shooting”? Lol
The stacking rod has a hole for the firing pin so that you can push the bolt face onto the stacking rod to disassemble the bolt.
If only I could find a bolt for my M1886 as I have the rest. Would make a great companion to the M1888.
The rounds are the same as Werndl rounds.
john fisk Nice tip for the stacking rod!
The rifle is absolutely beautiful. Everything of a certain age has bumps and dings from being hauled through hedges!! I wish I could see such a rifle in the flesh as it were.
That's a beautiful rifle! I've never seen one before.
Had one of the later models and replaced the barrel with one in .444 Marlin, shortened to 18 inches with full stock, made one hell of a nice deer brush gun, took a nice white tail doe with it about 25 years ago.
Just bought a m1886. Clever design and incredibly smooth. It is a bit rough looking, but the barrel is ok. Can't wait to pick up my m1885.
Stop! Please! My wallet can't survive the burning urge to purchase one of these.
Sedan57Chevy Möoouuahahahaha!
Kyros Droztamyr. No, they aren't bad. They still use the unidirectional clip. That didn't get changed until later. The M95 would be the one that you'd take hunting. It uses the omnidirectional clips so loading is easier, the action is stronger, having done away with the dropping block wedge locking system, and the bolt provides for some primary extraction so as to help prevent stuck casings.
Bloke on the Range. I knew there was a reason I didn't own any of the Austrian Mannlicher rifles.
You can just tell how much smoother the old 1886 wedge lock action is compared to the 1895s.
Oooohh! The ol' Manlicker! What an interesting rifle. Great video!
Thanks for the info. Nice rifle. Always like watching BOTR always interesting stuff about rifles.
Ok then, I'll be that guy. Mannlicher obviously realised early on. That the ping from a top ejecting clip would alert the enemy that you had fired your last round.
sorry, but someone had to be that guy.
welshy 46 Have a cybercookie! I’m surprised it took so long. The 1885 was indeed probably the first rifle to go ping!
If it was indeed the rifle that goes "ping", then Steyr must've leased them back from the Austrian government that they sold them to. That way, they would fall under the Imperially-supported R&D budget as test pieces, and not the corporate account.
Sorry about that, but this is probably the only place on the interweb where that joke would be appreciated😁
yes, the ping would ring out like a seismic charge from star wars, alerting every enemy within 100 miles you were out of ammo
+welshy 46
I can feel Ian crinching all the way from the US.
In a Raging battlefield No One can hear the pings.
I can almost smell the black powder smoke ....
Right! said Chap..
Chap on the range! Marvelous!
No the reason they didn't let the clip pop out the top was because the resulting ping would alert the enemy to the fact that you were out of Ammo, so they could charge you. Just like with the M1!
Yes I'm fucking with you.
Fudd lore, and utter bull
cool...now tape a pvc tube along one side, slide a dowel with a foregrip on one end through it, tie the other end of the dowel to the bolt handle, and use it like a pump action :p
It'd be cool if you could come across the 8x52mmR version that used BP, and compare the two. The weapons from the end of the Black Powder Era was so cool, as everyone was trying to make the most of it, while racing to get smokeless online!
Im going to order me one this week I have a carcano now but like all old firearms
Made me giggle when the second clip went flying XD
Совершенно понятно, становится из видео, почему при всех преимуществах, система не получила всеобщего распространения в ведущих державах того времени!
Hey its the Chap again!. Always a good day when video containing the Chap is uploaded.
That rifle was being a bitch and a half.
Alistair Shaw I still live her though:-)
The Chap it is a cool rifle
This video makes me want an Austrian straight pull so badly but I'm also saddened by quality examples' relative rarity in the US. So many sticky bolts...
Extra Double Plus Like
Good video. You two make an adorable couple.
Did you say "thank God for small Murphy's"? Cause if you did, you sir are FUCKING BRILLIANT!
probably no primary extraction because of it being BP and therefore low pressure loads. The M.H. only added a longer lever for extraction due to BP fouling. It brings the question when did rifles first start being made with primary extraction feature, probably with the use of smokeless powders.
Will Mathieson Nope, primary extraction appeared with the first generation bolt actions. For example the Vetterli series, Mauser M71 and Portuguese 1886 Kropatschek.
I saw one once with a spiral magazine, opposed to en bloc.
Also, would like to see a shooting video of the Vetterli-Vitale M1871/84/15 in 6.5mm. Supposedly Italians converted 600,000 to this pattern, so they must not all have blown up.(When I was a teen, a kid in our group had one his grandfather purchased in 1960's. We shot Norma, US military production and Italian milsurp and it new blew. Not certain I would do that today.)
Dor Aran Unlikely to do a 6.5mm Vetterli-Vitali but a Swiss Vetterli shooting vid will come eventually.
Curious why you would not consider to shoot the 6.5 VV conversion. Do you feel it is unsafe? Personally, although I shot one with friends as a teen, without incident, I'd be hesitant today as an adult, just because the way it looks. Virtually nothing of merit is available on this variant and would like to see you, Ian or Othias do a quality video on this rifle.
Dor Aran I see no problem with shooting one with appropriate reloads, it’s just that I have yet to see one for sale here. For my area of interest I’d be far more interested in an original Vetterli-Vitali in 10.4mm
I have seen old gun magazines and they were far more available in US than the 10.4 mm. Often paired with Snider conversions in gun ads (both for $9.95 each in 1966 dollars). These are not an uncommon sight at many US gun shows, but some turn up with plugged chambers. The unplugged ones usually in the $200-400 USD range. Also, an importer was turning them into floor lamps! I guess Interarms, in the 50's or 60's must have gotten most Italian stock of these and brought them into US market.
As a slightly related side note, a reprint of the 1903 Sears catalogue lists the Swiss 10.4 Vetterli for sale. US ammo companies loaded the rimfire cartridge to about time of WW2, so that must have been somewhat of a popular rifle, especially among the poorer farmers, etc. that could not afford a Winchester or Remington.
Dor Aran I believe Remington continued production well into the 50s
A video about the Martini-Henry maybe? As a very early christmas present.
Exsultate Justi M-H will appear but more likely closer to Easter than Christmas.
Bloke! Can you do a small bio on yourself? (Background with Langauges, how you got into firearms, etc...).You're an incredibly knowlegable guy. Have a happy and safe holidays!
he looks so happy shooting that gun haha. Like a 6 year old on christma.
Mine is a little more beat up, ok more than a little. While metal work is ok and with a service could shoot again, the stock it full of dents and other markings. Worst of all it has a large crack from the magazine to the bolt on the left hand side. No way would I use it whilst it is like that. Someday I shall fix the stock and shoot the gun. Just gotta find me a en block clip for it! Things are like hens teeth!
Also for some reason the action on mine is incredibly stiff to operate. I have removed the bolt and lube it up, but still a bugger to open! Any ideas why?
genius design
Much details. I have one question whether the cocking bolt head will drop down by its gravity while shooting higher targets? How much pound is need to unlocking and cocking the bolt?
Green tangle To open the bolt you need to overcome the force of the very heavy striker spring which has the dual function of propelling the firing pin and biasing the telescoping parts of the bolt in a compressed state. This spring is far heavier than the cocking piece, thus firing upward would not cause spontaneous unlocking of the bolt.
Eureka! Thanks for your explanations. Further question: The firing spring will lose its force on the cocking handle after firing, in that case it still has the potential to drop down. (Just guessing for lacking related rifle information)
Green tangle. The spring force biasing the bolt closed is always there. The spring is compressed further when cocked, thus even in the fired condition you still need to overcome the spring bias to open the bolt. They really did think it through ;-)
Great! I notice that there are lots of smoke ahead the muzzle. Does it means the M1886's lock system can't withstand the high press of smokeless gunpowder? Thus it was replaced by new M1895 rifle.
Green tangle It did transition to smokeless (M1888 and 1888/90) rifles but ultimately yes, the single small-ish point lock between bolt and receiver is not great for high pressure smokeless so they moved on.
Stats on the ammo? How fast is that bullet going?
Does the black powder create a low enough decibel rating that they do not have to wear ear pro?
Sand Ders I have custom earplugs screwed in (which I have since lost :-(
Chap old boy, you need an SMLE, you.
Imagine that for a sec.. middle of a huge battle, go to throw in a fresh clip, and rim jam chambering the first round. No bueno. Beautiful rifle though
Holy shit I can't put the bolt back in.
The 1886 lebel was obsolete the minute it entered service.
Nick Graham You mean the phemto-second it was thought of.
Not really, for about 2 years it was the god of all rifles, remember the Lebel was fireing smokeless while everybody else was NOT, in comparison you where firing a freaking laser with the 1886 when everybody else is lobbing rainbows with their rifles.....when everybody else got smokeless though, yes it was outdated.
only thing that made the Lebel the best rifle in the world for those twoish years was the cartridge, everything else was outdated, hell i'd rather have a Krag-Jørgensen then a Lebel.
Ach, you Swedes and your semi-smokeless powders...
Really great segment.
Shaun Evertson Swedes ?;-) This fires nothing but the holiest of holy black!
Channeling my BOTR Swedish K31 tshirt etc. Great rifle and great segment!
Hello I’ve just bought one were did you buy the loading clips from?
No idea, it was 15 years ago when I initially got it😅
Bloke I have a problem with a k-31 bolt. The inter bolt body (the one covered by the bolt sleeve) doesn't rotate freely to allow the handle nub to be inserted. All the other parts are good because I tested them with another inter bolt. I'm thinking the lugs aren't going deep enough to allow free rotation (what I mean is I think it's getting held up on the interior lugs of the piece that is the back of the bolt). Ever heard of bad parts before for the k-31 or this problem. I'm sure it's rare or I may just be stupid and I'm making a mistake.
Took a look at the bolt of my own K-31 to see what the problem could be.
Have you checked if the extractor is set properly? The back of the extractor should sit below the surface of the inner body. If it protrudes out of the body that could lead exactly to the problem you described.
The lugs themselves should have some wriggle room so i suspect the problem lies somewhere else.
Landogarner83 they do have wiggle room so maybe it's the extractor
Landogarner83 not the extractor. I removed it and Still doesn't move freely I just think it's a rare bad main bolt.
Miguel Hernandez well it was worth a try. But if it doesn't fit with everything else removed then something is bad.
I agree with Simon Smith that a gunsmith would be a good idea because as far as i know all of those rifles were delivered in guaranteed working order. If yours doesn't fit anymore then something may have broken.
In my opinion it is not a good idea to take risks with something that is supposed to go Bang.
Are the cartridge clips available? Have you encountered extraction problems and had to use a block of wood to hit the bolt to extract. I know someone who occasionally shoots a Mannlicher and is always having problems with it, "old age"
Never had any extractor issues personally, but then again I keep loads mild since I’m only punching paper at 50m. In the US you can still come across original boxed ammo but sadly not here
Rule No: 1 = Cut grass before shooting !!
2:37 ...thats why you came here =P
So does the clip eject on chambering the last round? could be a cool feature to tell you to reload after the next shot.
Although 5 rounds are not too hard to count I guess.
It might if you have dirt, bullets and shrapnel coming at you! Anyway, yes the clip falls away as soon as the last cartridge is chambered. All Mannlicher systems after the ‘86 followed this principle.
Havehave #1962 II.
More advanced than the Lebel? Yeah, but the Lebel can't get rimjam! ;)
Powder Monkey Very true, it’s also a much much stronger action. The comment was somewhat tongue in cheek 😅
Haha, my comment was just as tongue in cheek! I know it's the worn out clips causing problems. I get similar problems when I take my Berthier to the range.
A survivor Yup, as most clip loaders back then. I have 4 so do with what I have.
Things like a lee Enfield.
How was this rifle so smooth to operate w/ the bolt, yet the later M1895 and 1895/1930 fucking sucked?
Cos it has a totally different mechanism with just a little locking flap that moves up and down rather than a bolt head which turns 90°.
Bloke on the Range alright, thanks for the info! And you actually responded?! Thanks!!
Sup
coffy sa
Before the Mannlichers turned into obnoxious, plastic, disproportionate junk.
MannLICKER...
It's made of wood and it's called "manlicker". Old firearms really are rubbish :P
Exile 1 Mannliccccccher (back of the throat rasp). No lickers involved.
Is the rasp from all the man licking you've done?
Exile 1 It’s called elocution, look it up.
execution
ˌɛksɪˈkjuːʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the carrying out of a plan, order, or course of action.
"he was fascinated by the entire operation and its execution"
synonyms: implementation, carrying out, accomplishment, performance, effecting, bringing off, bringing about, achievement, carrying off, carrying through, completion, enactment, enforcement, discharge, prosecution, engineering, attainment, realization, fulfilment; perpetration
"the execution of the plan"
2.
the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person.
"the execution of juveniles is prohibited by international law"
synonyms: capital punishment, the death penalty, being put to death, killing; More
Grade C - Exile 1 is pleasant enough but doesn’t read comments properly. Must try harder in class.