Apparently Mosins were hand-fitted. Pre-war numbers-matching rifles should work well enough, but most of what is on the market are force-matched arsenal "refurbished" ones, with parts that sort of work together. The same problem with "Arisakas", though here the mess happened during disarmament.
the ones that were of a decent enough quality to be sniper rifles (the cream of the crop basically) are nice *for the time* but the rest were rubbish and they're all garbage by modern standards.
I'm a bit new to the channel, and I've really been enjoying it. This series is a fantastic idea and I really look forward to seeing how the results shake out, especially with things like the Lebel.
Excellent idea Bloke. Very well thought out as well. I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of the series. Thanks for your work and the high quality content.
about a month ago I shot a mad minute postal match with my GEW-98 I managed 17 hits from 19 shots on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper. I didn't use the middle finger on the trigger, as I found I jerked it too hard & missed a lot. sure gave me a lot of respect for those old time Brits!!! looking forward to this continuing series !!!
Britain- "We've devised a system to increase the firepower output of an infantry section by..." America- "This is an M1. BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG."
The fastest Enfield repeat firing display I've seen was by Iain harrison during a demonstration on Top Shot. He used his middle finger, and never let go of the bolt lever.
Brilliant project. My kind of geekiness. I too love gathering data on all kinds of 20th century conflict subjects. Battleship speeds, Aircraft Armament, etc. keep it up.
Bloke on the Range Any chance of a Swedish Mauser? I'd be interested to see if the cock on close improves the speed, over the K98. It feels like a faster action to me, but blocks your sight picture slightly longer.
Bloke on the Range Makes sense. I thought you had an M96 - from your bulleted blanks videos. An M38 with the bent handle would be interesting. If you have access to a Ross, it'd be awesome to see how that stacks up against the other straight pulls too.
Waiting for the detailed results, and for the Chap MAS 36 (the only real contender of the Lee-Enfield series and Mousqueton 1911 & 1931). Thanks for all your videos.
Agreed! Ive got a '40 no1 mk3 Lithgow and have put a couple of hundred rounds through a mates no4 mk2e and the SMLE is by far the smoothest! Both in a very comparable condition-un-issued and light recreational use since retirement.The no 4 is 50's vintage. Ive not speed shot either live but have done dry so confident on my findings.. Would be interesting to also throw some cock on close Mausers in there just too see!
I remember seeing ages ago an old report by some part of the US military (army, marines, ordnance ???) comparing the Springfield 1903 to the then-new M1 rifle in timed shooting trials. I wish I had saved it because it was unique in unlike any other comparative test I have ever seen THEY DIDN'T JUST SHOOT AT ONE TARGET OVER AND OVER. Which should be obvious, as why would you shoot the same spot 20 to 30 times? No, you'd move from one target that pops up then he'd either get shot or take cover, you'd then shift aim to another target. The test had an array of steel discs they had to hit at different ranges. But I cannot for the life of me find the report again, even Google has failed me. I don't quite remember the conclusions, I know the M1 rifle did better but I think it was by a much smaller margin than expected. It seems this time spent scanning for targets left enough time to cycle the action.
It's plausible, I suppose. Though the mad minute of an LMG is something like 300 rounds per minute... I can see why ordnance departments of most armies in WW2 focused mainly on procurement of LMGs while semi-automatic rifles were given remarkably low priority. You saw Ian's video on the French RCS-1918 right? The French Army had a semi-automatic rifle like the M1 garand before the 1920's! And it worked. But it went nowhere, the next rifle they adopted was a 5 round capacity bolt action, not semi auto. But only after they had adopted the LMG they wanted, the new rifle followed that calibre. I guess these mad minute tests aren't supposed to be militarily relevant. This is a competition that would always be won by the section machine gun.
Andy Sykes. It all changed so quickly, by the end of WW1 the British had more Lewis LMGs than Vickers water-cooled machine guns, about one per section. It seems snap shooting was far more important than just pouring on volumes of fire.
I believe the report you're referring to was the 1940 Marine Corps Rifle test. The results and methodology were printed in the June 1941 Marine Corps Gazette.
_How to do a mad minute_ via me... the undefeated cadet champ *just keep the bolt held under the pad of your thumb, in your palm, and pull the trigger with your middle finger* , (don't close your thumb on the bolt, it makes it harder to actuate your middle finger) when you pull the trigger, don't wait to feel the recoil, just cycle the bolt.. as you push the bolt back forwards, the recoil will be settling, and you can refocus your eye on the sights/target as you close the action back into battery. You can practice with a No.7 in .22lr .. or by dry firing a .303/.308... when you practice, start with action/trigger, and when you think you have it, incorporate a target, ... forcing your eye's focal plane back to target under recoil resting is hard and takes concentration, but is not dissimilar to dryfire practice, of you blink after every dry trigger pull. (it translates).. inthis way you can practice several thousand 'shots' in short order without expending ammunition. Yes, I have a medal somewhere ... I was taught by my grandpa, who taught the mad minute during the war.... I've had plenty of people challenge me... including young cadets today... still never lost.
If you look at some Norvegian stang videos you can see that guys with G3's arent nessesary faster. This is where hits are counted at 200 m. So the reloading is not limiting under all circumstances.
Its the Krag Jørgensen vids that are interesting. Not exactly a tricked out match rifle. (Also unsure why you would think a bolt action 6.5x55 has less recoil then a semi automatic 7.62x51. As I remember the G3 from my military service in semi auto the recoil aint bad at all)
Well done Bloke. Don't be so defensive. You've made a best effort to control those confounding variables and cheerfully accepted your constraints. The mark of a professional war geek! Crack on. Is your no4 butt small to fit your arm or just how it came?
I'd lend you my normal but you live in foreign parts. Shoot to Live includes "how to size your Enfield and arms" section if needed. On pdf at - archive.org/details/CanadianArmyShootToLiveMusketryManual1945
Someday, you should do a video where you give the best possible chances to all the rifles (including the no.4) If you want to avoid annoying fanboys, you can add a mosin and a berthier
I'm curious how a mad minute would compare to a modern rifle such as a M16. Specs say it should do 90 rounds per minute in burst fire, and 45 in semi. Not that such an exercise is actually testing anything, because per doctrine your goal is to sustain fire of 12-15 rounds per minute. Not so much "bang bang bang bang bang bang" but "bang *breath, recover, aim* bang *breath, recover, aim* bang *breath,recover aim*bang"
I'm looking for a video that explains that the mad minute is not about accuracy, but about 20 or 30 soldiers pumping rounds down range at a great amount of speed for a bolt rifle. As in WW1 when combatants ran at you en mass, 20 or 30 soldiers doing a mad minute would shock any assault.
The 98K is probably a little stronger, the chargers are probably a little better. The No.4 holds more rounds and the bolt is unquestionably faster. But the No.4 fought alongside the BREN and the 98K alongside the MG34/42. Many, many, many factors...
I have one just like it, I also collect Enfields starting with the Lee Metford. Get the Mk's and No's mixed up but the Canadian rifles are the best built in my opinion. I even have a Ross Rifle that was a competitor in WW1.
If you're talking about the designer, it's "GAIR-und"; if you're talking about the rifle, you're going to catch grief regardless of how you pronounce it. Oh, well...
Bloke on the Range Right. Ejection of my .303 Enfield isn't great no matter how brutal I am with the bolt. I often have to clear brass by hand costing me time and focus.
Bloke on the Range excuse me if I'm annoying, but are you sure? I also have the opportunity to buy a K31, but I keep hearing about accidents because of blown locks and think with every shot that it is the last one .... I thank you for your answer!
Why would any one do a mad minute on a single target, I believe the mad minute was to scramble rounds down range as fast as you could, works great in a platoon to keep the bad guys off of you.
The Mad Minute was a test of proficiency done by the pre-WWI British Army that required a high volume of AIMED fire. Accuracy was always inherent to the process, especially with the expected ranges of combat with these weapons. Note that the army was small and professional at this point, so such high standards could be maintained. After a year int he war, large conscript armies were bing used which wouldn't have had anything like the same individual profiency with the weapon.
I'm going to protect the M1 wins Enfield is 2nd. k31 3rd k98 4th reasons m1 semi and clips Enfield due mostly to starting with 10 in mag k31 due to better handling and 6rd mags tho you have more experience with k31 so Enfield and k31 will be close
i figured the No4 would be quicker but by a small margin but in lindybaige's hand i figured the No4 would win by a large margin as he isn't as experienced expectantly with the k31
Howdy Bloke. Just to be annoying I'm going to point out that every word in your title should start with an upper case letter. Just makes it look cleaner.
BotR Mad Minute? With a Garand? Did you mean "watch 90 percent of these bolt actions get pissed on"? Dont mean to be that guy, just feels like its a slightly accurate title
Looking forward to this series.I'm glad you included a "novice" base line too.This should be very interesting especially adding the M1 into the mix.
Can't wait for the Mad Mosin Minute, which will be punishing and more like a Mad Month
The rifle you 'load Sunday and work that clunky bolt all week'.
Yuss! he could have a mad shoulder deconstruction minute versus the No5 Mk1!
The mosin Mad Minute takes half an hour.
Apparently Mosins were hand-fitted. Pre-war numbers-matching rifles should work well enough, but most of what is on the market are force-matched arsenal "refurbished" ones, with parts that sort of work together.
The same problem with "Arisakas", though here the mess happened during disarmament.
the ones that were of a decent enough quality to be sniper rifles (the cream of the crop basically) are nice *for the time* but the rest were rubbish and they're all garbage by modern standards.
That Lloyd is one excellent beginner shooter.
To misquote The Karate Kid: no such thing as good student, only good teacher.
Treblaine Might be true IF he had a teacher and not just someone who just says put the rounds here, look here, put butt stock here and pull this!
I'm a bit new to the channel, and I've really been enjoying it. This series is a fantastic idea and I really look forward to seeing how the results shake out, especially with things like the Lebel.
Excellent idea Bloke. Very well thought out as well. I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of the series. Thanks for your work and the high quality content.
about a month ago I shot a mad minute postal match with my GEW-98
I managed 17 hits from 19 shots on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper.
I didn't use the middle finger on the trigger, as I found I jerked it too hard & missed a lot.
sure gave me a lot of respect for those old time Brits!!!
looking forward to this continuing series !!!
This is a very very good video Bloke!!
Britain- "We've devised a system to increase the firepower output of an infantry section by..."
America- "This is an M1. BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG."
"PING"
Ok i am a Lee fan but this wins comment section. Haha.
ping
Lookin forward for the next one! Thats why i love these vids because they are actually in depth tests that no one does. Thanks man.
The fastest Enfield repeat firing display I've seen was by Iain harrison during a demonstration on Top Shot. He used his middle finger, and never let go of the bolt lever.
As somebody who loves the hell out of his M39 Mosin... I want to live in a world where K31s are there to be had and Mosins aren't. :-p
Rather than trying to counter bias, why not define setup and get other channels to repeat test?
Brilliant project. My kind of geekiness. I too love gathering data on all kinds of 20th century conflict subjects. Battleship speeds, Aircraft Armament, etc. keep it up.
Please do a Remington Rolling Block minute :)
Will you be shooting the Mannlicher M95 for this series? I'd love to see it compared to other straight pull rifles. Looking forward to the series.
Bloke on the Range
Any chance of a Swedish Mauser? I'd be interested to see if the cock on close improves the speed, over the K98. It feels like a faster action to me, but blocks your sight picture slightly longer.
Bloke on the Range
Makes sense. I thought you had an M96 - from your bulleted blanks videos. An M38 with the bent handle would be interesting.
If you have access to a Ross, it'd be awesome to see how that stacks up against the other straight pulls too.
Bloke on the Range do you have access to a ross rifle?
Since you have opened up this study firing rifles with a sling helps hold up the rifle. It steadys it too.
Good show!
The best mad minute on TH-cam in my opinion was done by Britishmuzzleloaders, his second attempt with the smle no 1 mk 3 I believe it was.
Interesting information. Keep up the great work!
Waiting for the detailed results, and for the Chap MAS 36 (the only real contender of the Lee-Enfield series and Mousqueton 1911 & 1931). Thanks for all your videos.
Beautiful video bloke!
Great idea.It would be nice to see how a Ross MKIII would fair.
You should check than "new " K98k you have. I think it could be interesting comparative data. :)
Well, it will be more challenging if you add the mosin to the list
I love your beater K98. its very mad max.
Yeah! The Bloke knows business.
Looking forward for more!
I found the Mark 3 Enfields to be much smoother actions than the #4 service r ifles. I have never shot a Long Branch. variant.
Agreed! Ive got a '40 no1 mk3 Lithgow and have put a couple of hundred rounds through a mates no4 mk2e and the SMLE is by far the smoothest! Both in a very comparable condition-un-issued and light recreational use since retirement.The no 4 is 50's vintage. Ive not speed shot either live but have done dry so confident on my findings..
Would be interesting to also throw some cock on close Mausers in there just too see!
I hope you do a video which gives the Lee Enfield the best possible chance.
Decent ammo
Normal length butt, so you can keep your head still.
I remember seeing ages ago an old report by some part of the US military (army, marines, ordnance ???) comparing the Springfield 1903 to the then-new M1 rifle in timed shooting trials.
I wish I had saved it because it was unique in unlike any other comparative test I have ever seen THEY DIDN'T JUST SHOOT AT ONE TARGET OVER AND OVER.
Which should be obvious, as why would you shoot the same spot 20 to 30 times? No, you'd move from one target that pops up then he'd either get shot or take cover, you'd then shift aim to another target. The test had an array of steel discs they had to hit at different ranges.
But I cannot for the life of me find the report again, even Google has failed me. I don't quite remember the conclusions, I know the M1 rifle did better but I think it was by a much smaller margin than expected. It seems this time spent scanning for targets left enough time to cycle the action.
It's plausible, I suppose. Though the mad minute of an LMG is something like 300 rounds per minute...
I can see why ordnance departments of most armies in WW2 focused mainly on procurement of LMGs while semi-automatic rifles were given remarkably low priority.
You saw Ian's video on the French RCS-1918 right? The French Army had a semi-automatic rifle like the M1 garand before the 1920's! And it worked. But it went nowhere, the next rifle they adopted was a 5 round capacity bolt action, not semi auto. But only after they had adopted the LMG they wanted, the new rifle followed that calibre.
I guess these mad minute tests aren't supposed to be militarily relevant. This is a competition that would always be won by the section machine gun.
When the mad minute was introduced there were no section LMGs, it wasn't even a concept. Also some troops still attacked en mass. ie Germans in 1914.
Andy Sykes. It all changed so quickly, by the end of WW1 the British had more Lewis LMGs than Vickers water-cooled machine guns, about one per section.
It seems snap shooting was far more important than just pouring on volumes of fire.
I believe the report you're referring to was the 1940 Marine Corps Rifle test. The results and methodology were printed in the June 1941 Marine Corps Gazette.
Thanks for the tip, now I just have to find a readable version of that June 1941 Gazette.
_How to do a mad minute_ via me... the undefeated cadet champ
*just keep the bolt held under the pad of your thumb, in your palm, and pull the trigger with your middle finger* , (don't close your thumb on the bolt, it makes it harder to actuate your middle finger) when you pull the trigger, don't wait to feel the recoil, just cycle the bolt.. as you push the bolt back forwards, the recoil will be settling, and you can refocus your eye on the sights/target as you close the action back into battery.
You can practice with a No.7 in .22lr .. or by dry firing a .303/.308... when you practice, start with action/trigger, and when you think you have it, incorporate a target, ... forcing your eye's focal plane back to target under recoil resting is hard and takes concentration, but is not dissimilar to dryfire practice, of you blink after every dry trigger pull. (it translates).. inthis way you can practice several thousand 'shots' in short order without expending ammunition.
Yes, I have a medal somewhere ... I was taught by my grandpa, who taught the mad minute during the war.... I've had plenty of people challenge me... including young cadets today... still never lost.
Hoping to see a mannlicher charger gun, be interesting to see how fast the reloads are
Well, the Garand is basically a mannlicher clip, but double stack.
Well, the Garand is basically a mannlicher clip, but double stack.
love the geeky part
it would be neat to do a monthly mad minute to see how you improve. I want to do a gun channel as well and I plan to do that. :)
If you look at some Norvegian stang videos you can see that guys with G3's arent nessesary faster. This is where hits are counted at 200 m. So the reloading is not limiting under all circumstances.
Its the Krag Jørgensen vids that are interesting. Not exactly a tricked out match rifle.
(Also unsure why you would think a bolt action 6.5x55 has less recoil then a semi automatic 7.62x51. As I remember the G3 from my military service in semi auto the recoil aint bad at all)
the spreadsheet must have been tedious
When talking about spreadsheets, tedium is a given
Spreadsheets are the opposite of tedious.
love this video
Well done Bloke. Don't be so defensive. You've made a best effort to control those confounding variables and cheerfully accepted your constraints. The mark of a professional war geek! Crack on. Is your no4 butt small to fit your arm or just how it came?
I'd lend you my normal but you live in foreign parts. Shoot to Live includes "how to size your Enfield and arms" section if needed. On pdf at - archive.org/details/CanadianArmyShootToLiveMusketryManual1945
how about adding a slip-on recoil pad gives about an extra inch on LOP
Being wrong handed when it comes to shooting (left eye dominant ) it would be interesting to see this done left handed
Ian from Forgotten Weapons is a lefty and he can work a bolt really quickly despite being wrong-handed.
Someday, you should do a video where you give the best possible chances to all the rifles (including the no.4)
If you want to avoid annoying fanboys, you can add a mosin and a berthier
I do love the we didn’t shoot them because we didn’t have them. Now for some tea
Say I wanted to do a MM with an MVP. For the fun of it, how many should I load in a magazine? Have any "rules" be codified?
Oh I say jolly good video
what would you say is an advantage on mauser 98k? if there is any, what is well done on it or maybe even better than on the other rifles? if something
Throw in something like an FN FAL to take the next logical step after the M1??
Would you care to repeat the experiment with the bayonet fitted ?
In theory the extra mass might make the rifle recoil less.
Not really. But I've repeated it with light loads (not published yet).
Oh god yes
I'm curious how a mad minute would compare to a modern rifle such as a M16. Specs say it should do 90 rounds per minute in burst fire, and 45 in semi.
Not that such an exercise is actually testing anything, because per doctrine your goal is to sustain fire of 12-15 rounds per minute.
Not so much "bang bang bang bang bang bang" but "bang *breath, recover, aim* bang *breath, recover, aim* bang *breath,recover aim*bang"
I'm looking for a video that explains that the mad minute is not about accuracy, but about 20 or 30 soldiers pumping rounds down range at a great amount of speed for a bolt rifle. As in WW1 when combatants ran at you en mass, 20 or 30 soldiers doing a mad minute would shock any assault.
Why would you want to look for a video which explains something that's just not true?
Here's the reality behind the myth, confirmed with documents identified later: th-cam.com/video/dd79sQfHa88/w-d-xo.html
What do you have for a reloading setup? Just curious.
I like you're (your?) geeky nerdiness.
"Your" is correct. "You're" is "You are".
The 98K is probably a little stronger, the chargers are probably a little better. The No.4 holds more rounds and the bolt is unquestionably faster. But the No.4 fought alongside the BREN and the 98K alongside the MG34/42. Many, many, many factors...
The Mk4, is it a Canadian Longbranch? Also as per the comment below, you need a Moisin to round things out.
The No.4 Mk.1* is indeed a Canadian one made by Long Branch.
I have one just like it, I also collect Enfields starting with the Lee Metford. Get the Mk's and No's mixed up but the Canadian rifles are the best built in my opinion. I even have a Ross Rifle that was a competitor in WW1.
all I could think during this video was "SAY _GARAND_ YOU GIT!!!"
more Lindy Beige \o/
Your ‘M1’ comment was funny.
How many rounds did each rifle send downrange in a minute?
How many dollars worth of ammo did each rifle send downrange in a minute?
30 cal rifle ammo = 1 dollar a shot
30-30, 30-06......even though 30-30 takes WAY less powder......its still the same price
What kind of Mauser did you get? Is it a commercial hunting rifle or maybe an M48?
Bloke on the Range Oh cool. I was just curious
Is the any difference in SMLE an the Number 4??
I did an SMLE mad minute here: th-cam.com/video/RYS7wh3NP9U/w-d-xo.html
I should've watched your new video, before i wrote my comment on the other video an hour ago xD
If you're talking about the designer, it's "GAIR-und"; if you're talking about the rifle, you're going to catch grief regardless of how you pronounce it. Oh, well...
I simply can't believe anyone prefers a K98/Mauser over an Enfield. The only thing I like about Mausers is the vigorous ejection.
Bloke on the Range. Possibly because it's Spanish? Does it like Siestas? The German example I shoot is an extremely efficient ejector of 7.92.
Bloke on the Range Right. Ejection of my .303 Enfield isn't great no matter how brutal I am with the bolt. I often have to clear brass by hand costing me time and focus.
Bloke on the Range Will do. Top Tip. Thanks!
Hello. Is K31 safe, i hear from a Bolt accident?
Yes, they're safe.
Bloke on the Range excuse me if I'm annoying, but are you sure? I also have the opportunity to buy a K31, but I keep hearing about accidents because of blown locks and think with every shot that it is the last one .... I thank you for your answer!
Bloke on the Range Thank you!
Huzzah!!!
which country are you in?
William Sands Switzerland
Where's the BREN gun? 😜
Why would any one do a mad minute on a single target, I believe the mad minute was to scramble rounds down range as fast as you could, works great in a platoon to keep the bad guys off of you.
The Mad Minute was a test of proficiency done by the pre-WWI British Army that required a high volume of AIMED fire. Accuracy was always inherent to the process, especially with the expected ranges of combat with these weapons. Note that the army was small and professional at this point, so such high standards could be maintained. After a year int he war, large conscript armies were bing used which wouldn't have had anything like the same individual profiency with the weapon.
I'm going to protect the M1 wins Enfield is 2nd. k31 3rd k98 4th reasons m1 semi and clips Enfield due mostly to starting with 10 in mag k31 due to better handling and 6rd mags tho you have more experience with k31 so Enfield and k31 will be close
I was making predictions before i watched the video
i figured the No4 would be quicker but by a small margin but in lindybaige's hand i figured the No4 would win by a large margin as he isn't as experienced expectantly with the k31
John Garand was French Canadian so pronounce like it is French because it is.
Pronounce it French-Saskatchewan just to irritate the Québecois even more. LOL
Howdy Bloke. Just to be annoying I'm going to point out that every word in your title should start with an upper case letter. Just makes it look cleaner.
BotR Mad Minute? With a Garand? Did you mean "watch 90 percent of these bolt actions get pissed on"? Dont mean to be that guy, just feels like its a slightly accurate title
"gaa-rand". Hope that helps
Try a Ross.
a Swiss 7.5x55 Mondragon? Somewhat rare?
some here in Canada (of course) and many sporterized by Bubba.
Theyre hard to find just in the US, I couldnt imagine the situation in Switzerland.
I thought many would be in the UK since Canadians stopped using them and used the Lee Enfields.
Why is it that people are so concerned about people dumping tons of ammo through their rifles if it's for a specific reason?
a spoiler right away. What....
Bloke on the Range i meant coming up to 3 mins.
:D
Sorry, but your video is lacking the greatest bolt action of WW1 and 2......the Mosin lol.