BEST Lever Action Cartridge - .30-30 vs .45-70
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! What is the best lever action cartridge ever made? What's the best one for you to own and use? Whether that's for fun or for hunting deer and elk or maybe even dangerous game. Joseph von Benedikt answers these questions in this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
I purchased a Ruger No.3 in 45/70 years ago from an elderly gentleman, that he bought new in1977 He also had the original box.
Great rifle!
for what?
hang on to it. regret selling my Ruger
I keep hoping to see 35 Remington as an intermediary. It fits in nicely between the two you describe. Good show Señor!
358 win. Is superior to the 35 rem.
360 buckhammer is the new 35Rem. Same cartridge basically.
@@barrymantei7795 Less difference than you might think except for trajectory and recoil.
And the 35 whelen is superior to the 35 rem, and the 358 norma is superior to the 35 whelen, etc. But each of those "superior" rounds comes with their own drawback, namely recoil..@@barrymantei7795
Hello everyone! Thanks for joining tonight. -JvB
Thanks, Joseph. You and Ron should tell us where to find those awesome hats you guys have.
@@ryanharris6045 They’re Stormy Kromers…. They’re awesome hats!
@@ryanharris6045 It’s a Stormy Kromer. Made mostly in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. You just need to know your fitted hat size. It comes with built in ear warmers.
Thank you, Joseph for a real fine podcast! I love my 45/70's and I reload for them. I've got plenty 525 grain Beartooth bullets loaded up, also. That's just in case I encounter a monster somewhere, someday.
I don't own a 30/30 but I love my 35 Remington's. Again, thank you for such in-depth looks into both calibers and histories.
This is probably the best comparison vid I've seen, no bias just the basic hunting facts. From a lever action fan I thank you 👏
I just got back from the Range today and I met an older gentleman who shoots nothing but lever actions. I got to have a good conversation with him about his lever action experience and he was intrigued by my military arm experience. I told him if I were to get a lever action it would be in either of the two calibers featured in this video. it was really cool for two people from two different ages to get along with differing perspectives on firearms.
its called grooming youre gonna be a victim bro dont let him touch you
I got a bear with a 30-30 170grn core lokt 2 weeks ago. Did a great job. 40 yard shot, double lung, in and out. Went 40 yards and piled up
30-30 is still half the price of 45-70 and it’s what I got . So I’m going to stick with it.
It has taken all game in the US, Canada and South America. It was especially popular during the Alaska gold rush. Apparently the bears are tougher now.
👍💪👍👏🏻👍
@@PassivePortfolios Nah. Hunters (stalking, reading signs, wind, understanding animal perception) are much less skilled today, hunting land availability is more challenging today, and marketing has created a false concept of hunter range capability. The .30-30 will smash a formidable hole through just about anything with the right load, at moderate ranges. Those willing to hunt at moderate ranges on bigger animals are few.
@@exothermal.sprocket most modern hunters are more casual "shooters" than they used to be. I have a comment in this thread where I bash the people that give me business. I sometimes don't think that many of the people hunting today aren't spending their off seasons shooting varmints, or even target practicing like I grew up doing. My Dad had us out loading .45 cal muzzle loaders at 5 years old. I have one son that can outshoot me. My Dad had two by the time I was 12. My kids are all graduated except the one that can outshoot me. I personally have faced aggressive animals and because the way I grew up, and my personal expectations from the farmlands I grew up on can keep calm and shoot in situations they probably can't. They grew up far away from where I called home. I shot a Fisher that jumped from the top of our hunting cabin at me when I walked in to open it up in the fall. I didn't get nervous, until after. My shooting is more instinctual, and theirs' is more trained. It is definitely because I grew up exposed to the woods every single day. The woods is where I bring them to learn as much as I can teach them.
@@bigdaddy4691 There's no substitute for natural experience in nature. Being in nature for a couple of days out of the year and spending the rest of the time in subdivisions, city, or semi-rural streets and town does not constitute having a solid grasp of nature's activity, habitat, animal behavior. I personally grew up in a rural community on a small dairy farm and was exposed to all sorts of things that would make the average city person very afraid, whether it was large animals or danger around farm equipment, steep hills, deep water, high heights, etc. So I understand what you mean about having tempered nerves.
I went back and forth when I decided to get my first Ruger made Marlin lever action. I landed on the 30-30 because I hunt in the southeast and it’s what I killed my first whitetail with. Love the comparison. Great video
They are both great. 30-30 is a bit more practical.
I couldn't decide between the 30-30 and 45-70, so I got both!
Both Henrys, love them.
Bingo!
Good decision.
I left the channel for a while and when I come back I find that Ron has apparently found the fountain of youth.
Don't forget the Marlin 1881! Marlin introduced a successful, well designed lever action chambered in 45-70 five years before Winchester!
My 1881 Marlin is an excellent shooter and has been taking game for a very long time!
I was thinking I had shot a Marlin 1881 about 35 years ago. But I couldn’t remember for sure. It was a beautiful and smooth action gun. Well as I recalled.
Another extinct gun that is dead and buried. Stop digging the corpse up.
@@willbranson3216 I think the tenor of your comment matches the profile picture.
Much tighter fit finish not sloppy like the 94
I'd like to see you do a video on the Winchester 32 Special rifle & cartridge.
Always enjoy your videos & information.
It's slightly more capable than .30-30, but I would not say in a significant way for most uses.
Here in southeast KY, DNR reintroduced elk, and blackbear have found their way up here too. For deer hunting, the 1 in a million chance of winning the lotto for an elk tag, and dealing with bear, i bought the Henry 45-70. Oh, almost forgot, also for the random pissed off T-rex😂😂😂.
Or charging mammoth
@MrEddienoe that's right, if they get all that weight going in one direction, it'll get interesting if you're not prepared👍🏻👍🏻
I have both the 30-30 and 45-70 and I like both of them.
The Winchester Model 1886 was also adopted by the US Army. The 45-70 caliber GOVT was also the round used in Gatling guns, most popularly with an Ackles feed. I had a friend who was a range master at the start of WWII at a major army base. They didn't have enough current issue rifles to train all the troops, but they had a whole bunch of old 1886 Winchesters, so they used these to train troops in "heavy calibers." He claimed they had some rifles there with 300K rounds through them that still worked well and shot accurately.
That's impressive stuff. Nothing quite like the JMB designs. Arguably Miroku makes them better than they have ever been made to date, without respect to a particular safety feature.
With the “new” weights in bullets today it seems that the 30-30 has gotten a new lease on life. They are both still 200 yds and in caliber rifles.
There are a couple of new powders worth mentioning too. LeveRevolution powder consistently shows the highest velocities in .30-30 rifles, sometimes by 10% or more. CFE-223 is behind but also faster than most of the “traditional” powders for these rifles.
I definitely agree with the 200 yard thing as I would like to keep it within that distance but my uncle took a cow elk with a 16 inch contender in 45-70 at a little over 300.
190gr Hawk bullet load from Buffalo Bore, promises to be an mule deer, moose, and elk smasher.
But to prove a point about the Hornady 160 FTX, there's a video on this website where a Canadian hunter performed a CNS shot (high shoulder) on a cow elk in a field, 339 yards and it dropped immediately on the spot. Mind you, he'd done a lot of cartridge testing in prior weeks and knew the limits.
I personally am not an FTX praiser, as the bullets tend to shed a lot of pieces through gel testing, but the flight characteristics are nice to have.
Hornady lever evolution rounds in 30-30 still put out over 1,000 ft/lbs in energy at 300 yards and have reasonable drop at that range. You would need a scope to shoot at those ranges, but it's extremely impressive what you can do with a modern 30-30 bullet. On the other end of the spectrum Buffalo Bore has a 190grain hardcast bullet that would be adequate on virtually anything in North America including brown bear and moose. (although you would definitely want to be within 150 with that load)
@@-Zevin- His impact was about 950 ft-lb energy (1635 fps) at 339 yards (according to his stats and my checking a ballistic calc). 160 FTX didn't exit, but pierced through just under spine high shoulder.
Buffalo Bore uses a Hawk bullet in that 190gr load, which is a tougher/thicker jacket bullet with a lead tip. Hawk makes excellent bullets for more calibers than most manufacturers, including many obsolete or hard to find calibers.
Howdy, I'm 72 and just came across your video for the first time. I just subscribed .the stormy kromer did it thanks much
Something else you didn't touch on is the laws. Some states like I think Ohio, Indiana and Illinois are primarily shot gun only for deer hunting as far as modern guns and rifles like the 308, 30/30,6.5 Creedmoor or any bottle neck cartridge is illegal. However they allow straight wall cartridges for rifles for instance 45/70,44 magnum, 357 magnum, and 45 long colt. So depending on the laws of particular state or area you might need to have the 4570 to be legal.
The new RM 45-70 tactical dark series is bad ass. I’m getting sub-MOA at 100yd with that Hornady 325 grain ftx
Shooting with a red dot on mine and some 550gr subsonics and I'm getting one hole at 50y. Thing is awesome.
I heard the ftx bullets do a number on whitetails.
I've fired bullet weights from a 259 gr wadcutter to 520 gr flat nose out of my 1885 and 1874 Sharps using both smokeless and black powder. The Sharps is a lot more comfortable to shoot with heavy bullets due to its heavier weight 14 lbs with a Malcolm style scope.
Good presentation. I went with my Dad to look at some Winchester lever actions. The guy had several 30-30's and a big octagonal barrel Winchester in 45-70. They were all very old guns but in excellent shape. I never forgot that big 45-70. I wish my Dad could have bought it.
I remember sitting in the dentist office in 1993 looking at a magazine it said do you have enough gun advertisements from marlin in a field and stream I had one 1895 G a couple days later and needless to say a set of dies and I only keep accurate rifles it’s is still in my possession and has performed flawless taking a black bear and many white tail through the years in Pennsylvania
Great in depth review, please keep them coming !
Via intro, myself hands down the 30.30. as my first rifle, never let me down in deep woods, NY Catskill Mts.
I have both and love both. Just always had a soft spot for big bores.
Both great cartridges. The .35 Remington is a good balance between the two. I always wondered why the spiral magazine tube from the old Remington model 14 was never used in modern .30-30s. The patent is long expired and it's design would allow the use of pointed bullets.
I have a 1949 Remington 141 in 35 Rem with a 24 inch barrel. Great design with the tube and lots of other things from John Pederson. My gunsmith mentor told me if they ever reissued the 141s they would likely have to be $3-5k due to complexities in the rifle
I mean box mag leverguns have been around a long time. Still whats the point? By the time the other options with potential for higher capacity or pointed bullets came around lever guns were no longer a military rifle and most states limit hunting rifle capacity anyways and have for a long time. Then of course bullet technology was at a point where for hunting at least pionted bullets were not really necessary. Now with even more modern bullet technology pointed bullets still arent as necessary and even if you insist on them Hornady has the ftx flex tips which are pointed and safe for tube mags. So again the need for a different type of magazine system is kinda moot. And at this point in the game the only thing with more capacity is a semiauto bolt actions are normally limited to around 5rds. Most lever guns have a higher capacity than that.
Why would you want a spire point bullet in a 200 yard rifle? Half the reason the 30-30 was popular was the round bullet with a lot of exposed lead so it expanded well at lower velocity. Same with the 35 Remington. 🤷🏽♂️
@@dgoodman1484 because the 3030 and 35 rem are more than accurate and lethal past 200yrds. Most people just dont shoot them that far
@@dgoodman1484 Who mentioned a spire point? I'm a huge fan of 35 Rem and have a nice 1949 Remington 141 that 'could' use spire point but as you said...if you cast for 35 Rem/358 Win / 35 Whelen your bullet selection quadruples....
On price and overall performance the 30-30 wins, except for dangerous game. Most of the shots in the East and South are under 150 yards, which the 30-30 is perfectly able to handle. The 45-70 was initially a black powder cartridge but it got a new lease on life with smokeless powder and rifles which could handle the higher pressure. It its share of fans in Alaska and Canada where there are still a lot of grizzly and brown bears.
Haha - east and southern deer hunters and bear shoot 300 to 500 always have - have you ever seen the agriculture land
Very funny but that's false. Nobody shoots that far in the East and South. Been hunting down here for 30 years so I know all about it. And Ohio, Michigan, Illinois,.Iowa, Indiana are straight wall cartridge states to minimize the ranges at which hunters take shots.
@@FranzAntonMesmer that was the now defunct .375 Winchester. It was too close to the 35 Rem. so it never caught on.
@@FranzAntonMesmer For some reason these mid-bore rounds do not catch on, aside from the 350 Legend, and that is only due to straight wall restrictions in certain states. They kick more than the 30-30 but the additional power is not needed for deer, black bear, hogs. And their range is too short for elk and moose. The 30-06, 6.5 CM., 270, etc. and similar rounds are better options so nostalgia only goes so far.
Yup....I carried a Marlin years ago when I was working in British Columbia mountains....bears and cougars are common.....still my go to hunting rifle for big mulies and moose plus I roll my own.,
35 Rem
35 not as popular! But one hell of a round!
This was a great comparison...thanks!
The.30-30 has its advantages and one is availability. Another is practicality. The cartridge has been greatly improved by better components and rifles all told it’s still a very impressive cartridge..
Great video, love both these cartridges but especially the 45-70.
Nice work Mr. Benedikt, I enjoy your presentations, you have a good presence n front of the camera.
Marlin had the 1881 in 45 70 I thought before Winchester had the 1886. I love my lever action rifles. I have then in 22LR up to the 45 90 that one can be a real thumper.
.45-90 with smokeless power in strong actions, gives about another 250 fps over the -70.
I love both, but really, the 30 30 is more useful to me.
What makes it more useful?
@@trailblazer632 can't answer for anyone else but I agree with their statement. My reasons being more appropriate for deer sized game, easier to find guns and ammo. More affordable guns and ammo.
@@trailblazer632 I shoot it best, very confident with my JM 336.
@Magnum_Express i mean... theres just as many guns in 4570 as 3030 and honestly while the ammo is more expensive by a few dollars its not really more appropriate for deer than the other... 4570 has lower loads for deer vs larger game.
@@trailblazer632 i agree there are more options in the 45-70 these days, it wasnt always the case. the 45-70 almost died out at one point in history. Another issue is alot of 45-70s on the market are historical replicas of trapdoor models or the old 1886 and not designed to shoot modern hot loads that people would want to use to take advantage of the 45-70s bigger case. The 30-30 on the other hand doesn't have that handicap as all ammo is safe in all guns. And in my area 30-30 ammo is far more common and far cheaper. About half the price per box.
I'm liking the new 360 buckhammer
A few of us were discussing the pros and cons of just these two cartridges today Joseph, as we sat chatting at our favorite Gun Store. Boy oh boy, this video is going to be welcomed next week when I get back there to ruffle a few more feathers!
Thanks for this great information, it`s ( as I said ) sure going to be a source of good information for more chatter.
love your hat, even though it is (ha ha) Backwards. you left out 2 better ones. the 99 in 300 savage & the 35 rem in a lever gun.
I second the 35 Remington in a Marlin 336.
You mean a savage 99 in 308 or 358.
His hat doesn't look backwards to me.
It's a Stormy Kromer, and it is NOT on backwards
How the hell does a stormy krohmer even look backwards?
I am liking your content, more and more. Good decision by Ron and good choice by you!
You’re a wealth of knowledge, A walking encyclopedia. Thanks for sharing.
Great review. Love your cartridge reviews.
Hey JvB what an awesome video, looks like King Ron has a natural successor! Thank you for such a knowledgeable, professional and informative video. Shot my Marlin (Ruger) SBL yesterday in 45-70, it never fails to make me smile! Much love from the UK 🇬🇧👊🏻
I have never liked shooting a 30-06 which I had to do in the Army, first with the bolt action '03 Springfield and then with the M1. Hearing the recoil numbers for the 30-30 sounds perfect for me. Thanks.
Best??? A 30-30 might be 'most popular'....but best?? I'd think a Browning BLR in 358 Winchester for North America would be hard to beat. 35 Remington in a Marlin nearly gets you to 358 win. Alot of people seem to think the 360 Buckhammer will replace a 35 Rem and while it might based on advertising it wont be based on what it delievers - look at the differences - a 360 Buckhammer is starting at a working pressure of 50,000 psi to match basic factory 35 Remington which is SAAMI pressure max at 33,500psi. This low pressure rating is for the old turn of the 20th century guns. In a modern Marlin rifle you can take that pressure level right up to any other Marlin like a 30-30 or 444 and 35 rem Buffalo Bore ammunition takes advantage of that fact. For the reloader I'd say the most versatile 'best' levergun round is 358 Winchester, but due to rarity I'd go 35 Remington, because even if you dont reload factory Hornady 35 rem matches 360 Buckhammer and Buffalo Bore easily surpasses it. All at much lower pressure levels. If you reload its no contest - 35 Rem is hard to beat. Most popular??? 30-30 easily hands down
Hard to find 35 rem, 32 Win, 358 , savage calibres etc in many places..
So 30 30 and 45 70 are best, like saying BMWs are the best engines, until you realize they need premium highboctane gas that isn't available in 80 percent of the world
@@OntarioBearHunter I'd agree to a degree. 35 Remington is more available than it was 20 yrs ago, but still not as common. I reload, so it really comes down to brass for me. I have over 500 pieces so I dont even think availability. 358 Winchester brass? Its 308 Win that goes through a full length sizing die and comes out 358 Win. AR/LR308s are very common - and cheap. A $250 barrel swap gets you a 358 Win. Back to best....If I was planning a hunt that was a plane trip first I'd make sure I 'didnt forget ammo" (duh) and maybe even pre ship ammo before I even left. If I used a 'marginal cartridge' on a dangerous game hunt because it was 'easy to find'....maybe I deserve a 'Darwin Award' haha
Great info here. Thanks!
Outstanding video. I still have my grandfather's Win Model 1984 in 30-30. Serial number dates it to 1925. I took my first deer with it, many years ago. I also have 2 Marlin 45-70s. My latest is the dark series. I'm looking forward to trying my luck this year on a deer and elk hunt with the 45-70. Love both rifles and calibers.
I heard my father tell about shooting a deer at what he estimated to be 400 yards after a man with an .30-06 turned down the shot. He was telling the story to the brother of the man that turned down the shot about 25-30 years after the hunt. My father said he held an estimated 4 feet high and tore out the heart/lungs.
Part of the reason I believe his story is that part of the story was how he would vomit after each pass with the knife for 3 to 4 hours. I heard him tell part of the story to someone else and still told about vomiting. At this time he was the captain of the school rifle team.
Thank you for this
I have both. I always have a difficult time deciding which one I want to use, so I sometimes take both. Not both out in the field but on different trips.
I always considered the 30-30 an old man's rifle until i bought a Glenfield 30a yrs ago and was very happy with the accuracy and how it works well for deer collecting
I have both, so covered!
Good info Joseph!!! Thanks brother!!!
The name 1895 is a marketing ploy, and the rifle came almost 60 years after the 1886. There was an actual Model 1895 from Marlin but it was mechanically different and bears no relation to the well known modern version shown in the video.
There was a Winchester model 1895.
Yep the only thing they share is the caliber it was meant to be a tribute to the old 1895 when introduced a 336 in 45-70.
Have both, love 'em both equally!
I wish they would bring back the 50/110
That is the 45-70 curse. Clearly a junior loading for the heavy stuff. With all the large bore 1886s being made these days, it boggles the mind that the 50/110, or a 50 alaskan never makes it on these new models. There are lots of gun racks these days with all sorts of fancy version of levers in them, now that the fad is with us. All identical guns with different furniture. While there are some very obvious missing options.
I'm no hunter, but on this side of the Mississippi, I'd be hard-pressed to think of what I'd need a 45-70 to do.
In terms of a lever gun, I'd probably take one in .44 or even .357 before I'd get a 45-70. My experience with 45-70 is restricted to a Sharps and a Trapdoor carbine. The cartridge recoils more than I care for during a day at the range, and it isn't the flattest trajectory I ever shot either.
Why choose, get both lol. I have never used the 30-30 on anything though because it is not legal here on Ohio,..yet. But that 45/70 has been my go to since the straight wall rifle cartidge law passed here in 2015 and I never looked back. So far that has filled my freezer every year with at least 1 deer sometimes 2 or three. 300 gr JHP does the job just fine. 405 gr hard cast tears the meat up too bad if you shoot length wide through them. But 300 yds is the longest shots we get in SE Ohio in a power line right of way cut through the timber or across a bottom land cornfield at 200 yds.
Great facts & thoughts on two great cartridges.
Thanks
thanks for the good info...
I bought the marlin 45 70 I love it I have much money so I asked the gun shop guy hey I wanted a lever action bring down anything I hit from bear to deer he said 4570 as my only rifle for hunting it's been great I'm a stocky guy so recoil not to bad
The 50-70 was the first cartridge it was black powder adopted by the US government
I don't currently own a lever action but I want to get one! Just waiting for the right buy to come along.
If you Hunt, take a good look at the Browning BLR. Light, Sleek and fast, in many modern cartridges, from 22-250/243 to 358/450 Marlin and 7Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag, and a lot of in betweens. If a Classic then there are quite a few older very fine cartridges
Model 71 348 wcf is the best lever action
Absolutely. Totally superior to the 45-70. The 348 is my "heavy" lever gun after my 35, 30-30, and 7-30 Waters
Another Great Video 💯Thanks 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Talking with rural folks, who defend their livestock and hunt for meat (not social media weekend whatever...) they talk 30-30 lever action. After the 30-06, 270, and 30-30 are talk about for hunting...the 45-70 and 444 are mentioned.
Anybody remember the .300 Savage? 150gr pointed bullets at 2,700 fps? .30-06 ballistics (circa 1920) in a compact and efficient case in the light and handy Savage 99 - a rifle and a caliber way ahead of their time. I like and own Winchester lever guns - I love and own many more Marlin lever guns - but the “best” classic American made lever gun (sorry BLR) from a perspective of ballistics, ease of scope use, and size / compactness (standard, featherweight, and take down models) IMO is the Savage 99 in .300 Savage (and the later .308 Win). The Savage 99 deserves a seat at the table for this discussion Ron.
Good, Thx
"In the west" is a big region. The .30-30 was in wide use when I got my first hunting licence about 55 years ago in California. It's the rifle i've used. One fact that "the west" temps the less foresighted to do is to worry about being able to take game at long range. Hardly anyone hunts much in the Great Valley, but the Coast Ranges, San Gabriels, Sierras, Cascades and Trinities are hunted a lot. Long range in the mountains generally means shooting across ravines or canyons, and generally horrible hikes or rides to try and find the deer you shot "at long range." For a brush gun, the .30-30 Model 94 can't really be beat.
So either savage the 303 or the 300 savage will easily out per form the 3030 the 300 savage with a 180 gr bullet will outperform the 4570 except when stopping a charge.lets not forget the 308 win and the 06 in the browning bar in my opinion the mighty 270 will also outperform the 4570.you should have named your video which is better 4570 or the 3030.by the way the 303 savage has 4 gr more case capacity than the 3030 and was chambered in a much not little bit stronger rifle.i love the 3030 but I love my 303more.almost 3040 krag ballistics .a truly great combo
I do own a pedersoli rolling block in 4570 for target fun ,but you can work out with that monster.my rossi 45 long colt loaded full blast is a handful. The rossi is loaded in the 454 casual so max 45 colt is OK
.
Great video!
I have contender barrels in both 30-30 and 45-70. So I’m live in the best of both worlds
I have both and the 30-30 is my favorite. I have a Winchester Model 1894 Trapper and an H&R Model 158 . I have taken dozens of whitetail during my 59 years with that H&R . I have a Tasco 3x9 scope on it that I mounted in 1984. I sighted it in to hit 2 inches high at 100 yards. That was 40 years ago, I have never adjusted that scope and it still hits 2 inches high at 100 yards.
Great informative video.
Id like to see the 7-30 Waters lever action make a comeback.
Great video. It just all depends where you live and the critters ya got there. As for my Ozarks, 30-30 is all ya need mostly. Long shots, go bolt action.
Excellent thorough analysis 🧐 once again JVB 🤠. Both my youngest brother and my Dad love their older Marlin 336 in 30-30 Win. My Dad has a scope and shoots the 170 grain Federal Power Point and my brother uses iron sights and those LeverRevolution loads and hand loads the same components and powder.
I currently sadly don’t have a lever gun, but have wanted for a long time. Now that I live in Ohio after 40 years in West Virginia I eventually need a straight wall cartridge for the Ohio rifle season. I could go with a left hand bolt gun in 350 Legend, 400 L or 450 Bushmaster but I really want a sweet lever gun more. Whether it’s the 45/70, 444 Marlin, 44 Mag or the new 360 Buckhammer. I am leaning toward the 360 L as a middle ground option.
You not be disappointed with a 350 legend but if go for lever gun 45-70 is hard to beat and ammo fairly available.
@@t-bfr45-70 glad to hear that you have had success with both
The 58/50 was the first ever Metallic cartridges it was used in the Spencer rifle or carbine it was likewise the first lever action
Spencer is still not a true lever action because the hammer must be manually actuated by the operator for each shot.
Great video. I lean towards more modern lever actions such as the Savage 99 in .300 Savage or Winchester 88 in .308 of which I have both. I also have a Remington 788 in 30-30. I can shoot pointed bullets in all three which lets me shoot flatter and further out, but I am not a long range shooter so I guess the 30-30 Marlin 336 is still my favorite deer gun!! Different strokes for different folks!!
The best lever action cartridge is one originally cambered in the best lever action rifle. That is the Winchester 1886 and the 45-70.
Great video!!! I own both in the Henry rifles. I’ve harvested many deer with the old reliable 30-30. Just bought the 45-70 and will hunt with it this deer season and plan on a hog and black bear hunt in the future. Thanks for this important information!!! Bud Cary.
I’ve got them both! Savage 99 30-30 sporter (16” barrel-built in 1925), & a modern Henry H010 45-70!
As discussed, the variability of the cartridges is why I love them both.
I spend a lot of time in the high country of southern Colorado, where I keep the Henry loaded with Garrett 540gr superhardcast Hammerheads in case teddy comes along. The super-smooth Savage 99 is my perfect North Texas ranch companion for everything from pigs to yotes to ‘trespassers.’ I’ve taken one white tail with the Savage, and one elk with the Henry, both with Hornady leverevolution ammo.
While red-dotted ARs and scoped bolt actions are great, in my humble opinion, 130 year-old tech still works just fine, and good old American tradition never goes out of style!
I’m planning a moose/Griz hunt in Alaska and one of the rifles I take will definitely be that Henry!
Another great video, thanks Joe!
I own both, going to add the 35 rem to my lever action collection.
What about the .35 Remington? That is my preference especially for a brush gun. Nice review.
what do you require to use if for first question of course then do you already have one or can get one?
Joseph, how about doing a comparison of the 1895 Winchester in 405, compared to the 45-70?
Good luck finding any ammo. It is easier to find 50 Alaskan, but Winchester keeps churning out the 95 in 405, without any ammo. I want a 95 in 9.3x62 (the 95 was made in 30-06 as you know so a conversion to the 9.3 is easy).
@@tacticalskiffs8134 I already have my 1895 in 405. I hope more ammo will be produced to supply the 405's that are out already, but I stocked up on ammo and also bullets to reload if necessary, but I still hope more ammo will be produced anyway. I had a leveraction 45-70. I have hunted with the 45-70. I still have some single shot 45-70's. I still have my 1895 in 405. I did have some single shots in 405 but unfortunately life doesn't always go as you wish. I wish I could get the 1885 in 405 back. Hunting with both the 405 and 45-70, I have been more pleased with the 405. Both cartridges have been used on dangerous game. Using standard factory ammo, I believe the 405 is better for dangerous game than the 45-70. The 45-70 is better served for dangerous game with the specialty high pressure loads. Both are sufficient for bear. Both have been used on African dangerous game but there are better calibers for African dangerous game. The 45-70 has its place, my preference runs to the 405, for my hunting, and due to my hunting experience with both cartridges. I will still like to see them make a comparison of the two cartridges, just to see their take. Both have their pros and cons, each person has their own intended useages, and everyone can decide for themselves what rifle and cartridge will best suit their purpose.
@@tacticalskiffs8134 there have already been 1895 winchesters converted to the 9.3x62. Also to the 338-06, and 375 whelen, and other similar cartridges. It wouldn't surprise me to find that someone has converted one to 400 whelen also. In my opinion, the 405 is a capable cartridge and also possesses the historical significance. The other calibers do not. Particular cartridges might possess their own historical significance but not in the 1895 rifle. People who have an 1895, particularly in the 405 chambering seem to be quite pleased with them. Those that have converted theirs seem very pleased with their conversions. I think more variations of the 1895 could be made (different barrel lengths, etc) and in more calibers, but in this day and age of "wannabe snipers". Chassis stocked bolt actions, and high BC bullets, I seriously doubt it will ever happen. It is amazing that the 45-70 and 30-30 are still around, but the fact that they are, shows that such rifles and cartridges still have relevance and it is a shame that the majority of the modern shooting public doesn't seem to be able to grasp that concept.
@@tacticalskiffs8134why don’t you just handload?
@@66smithra Do research on .405 Winchester component availability. It's like hens' teeth. Extremely difficult to find brass, even from boutique manufacturers. You might put in an order for a run if you're willing to pay 4-5$ per casing for several hundred. And then there's the .412 caliber bullet issue...
If you're inclined to branch away from 458 caliber (.45-70) to something smaller, consider the .444 Marlin. Or you could go with the .38-55 or .375 Winchester (the later which will be a used-market proposition). The .30-30 is a better option than .38-55 or .375 at most moderate ranges, which is why it won the popularity contest a long time ago. .38-55 is pretty cool, but it only returned due to competition shooting.
Good discussion about the potential for kinetic energy numbers to be misleading. I do think that kinetic energy is a useful statistic when you are comparing similar weight bullets, or especially when talking about energy retained down range at 200, 300 or 400 yards. Some cartridges/bullets lose velocity quickly over distance and that multiplier kicks in, showing a big loss in energy.
I have an original trapdoor Springfield .45-70 rifle (not carbine) which I love to shoot. The problem is I'm running short of the ammunition that came with the gun when I inherited it from my father over twenty years ago and he was already starting to worry about factory ammo being too strong for the gun. How do I ensure that I'm getting ammo that is safe for this rifle now that higher performance ammunition is becoming more prevalent with the advent of the newer guns? One of my children will soon be inheriting the rifle from me and they all love it as much as I do.
I’ve lived in Alberta all my life and haven’t seen a 400lb black bear…yet. But Barnes has come out with a 190gr original for the 30-30 with what appears to be real world velocities on the box for 18” and 24” barrels.
The Savage bolt action 30-30 is great as well.
Just discovered your channel. Your presentation was entertaining and informative. I like the globe in the background. Don't forget to rotate it occasionally.😊
Gday ron! Newbie here and loving the info off this channel, Thank you!! ive spent a fortnight researching hours every day on a bunch of calibres andit seems ive found a good ideal ( not suprisingly) im looking into a 223 then discovered 556 nato is “the same” with higher pressure… well now researching this clearly incredibly controversial topic im coming up with nothing at all yet it seems an obvious question!!!
Lets say if i had a rifle in 556 will it shoot the 223 rounds just as accurate? i know each is individual so accounting for that id love to have the ability to use both but id mostly use the cheaper 223 rounds
You can shoot 223 in a 556 but not 556 in a 223 because of the pressure.
Technically we first adopted a .58 caliber rimfire cartridge then the “.50-70” centerfire before it was repackaged as the .45-70. However originally we were trying to convert the 1861 Springfield to cartridge firing. We used the same barrels for the rimfire then a barrel liner for the .50-70. However by the time we went to a .45 we decided it didn’t make sense to convert. So most all trapdoor Springfields are of all original manufacturing.
What should I do I got hit on the left side of my face I think coughing iron about a month ago no concussion only needed three stitches stitches. I got cleared to do shooting sports I shoot left-handed so the stock on the left side of my face and the pain is starting to come back, even though the injury happened a month ago any recommendations for how to stop the pain from coming back and not hurting while chewing tougher items l've been doing icing ibuprofen.
30-30 and 444 marlin
Highly recommend the 380 grain Lehigh solid copper flat nose. That is what I carry if I have my 45-70 with me in the woods. Hits like a hammer and recoil is a tad less due to the slightly lighter bullet. It has a pretty wide meplat, so it actually creates a surprisingly wide wound channel.
If recoil is light add more powder.
Great timing! I’ve been trying to decide between 30-30 or 45-70 for my next purchase. 30-30 is more practical for me, but 45-70 is just awesome.
I’ve been thinking about picking up a 45/70 single shot, break action. Have you made a decision yet?
@@rogerj.fugere3570 no I keep going back and forth. Plus all the levers are EXPENSIVE
You'll shoot the .30-30 more often, probably. It's a real peach. It's just as much Americana as the other and it's no slouch by any means. Consider ammo weight and rifle weight as well. Go watch Paul Harrell on the .30-30.
I'd like a Ruger no 1 in 375 ruger or 444 Marlin, how easy is it to customize barrel and chamberings ?
If you're re-barreling a #1, just tell your gunsmith what you what. The choices are practically infinite, I've seen #1's in .17 Hornet all the way up to .500 Nitro Express.
Beautiful rifles. I have a Henry 30-30 that I love. Where did you get the rifle cuff for your Guide gun? Thanks!
love these type vidios
Certain states have gone unconstitutional as far as particular rifles for home defense. Lever actions seem to be filling that roll in large numbers. I was looking at a 44 magnum as one of those rifles as well as a deer rifle. Would this be adequate for deer in say 100 to 150 yards, or go with the 3030? Thanks, love the content.
Yes. .44 magnum will do just fine. 150yrds I kind of pushing it, but I have seen it done.
I borrowed a buddies ruger 10/44, (he has taken deer at 150 with it).
I took a few from about 50-75, and took one at exactly 100yds (it was standing by a marker when I took the shot.
I only had to track one, and that was my fault. Most took a few steps, if any.
A .44mag, coming out of a rifle (or carbine) length barrel is an absolute man stopper. So .44mag will definitely work for home defense.
I don't currently own one, but I have been looking for a good 10/44 for years. Everyone that I have found for sale was really beat up, or waayy overpriced.
I'm kind of in a financial crunch right now, because of health problems, but I will have a .44mag rifle at some point.
I fell in love with that ruger 10/44, but I will probably end up with a lever gun.
.44 mag is just perfect for where I'm living right now.
My primary is a .308 model 700, but there are any shots past 100yrds on my entire property.
I like the 44-40 myself. Although it really depends on application.