Lots of audiences like toxic guys so they assume they would work on female characters as well, forgetting the fact that Hollywood audience can forgive male rapists actors but not female being annoying
Because there's no such thing as 'toxic masculinity' they just used that to guilt men while they took his exact place. Glad to see some of you finally getting it.
The priorities of these Hollywood executives and writers are so skewed, it's unreal... Traditionally masculine characters are toxic, unless the female character somehow is impressed with him only sexually and fantasizes about being dominated by him. Or they portray male characters as safe, meek, and mostly incompetent to but somehow these chicks are with them... Or in the case of the girl boss type these men are berated and condescended for existing because this is a better way forward, blah blah blah, smash the patriarchy. But if a woman is toxic it's perfectly fine, because accountability is a foreign concept... women should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want and men they automatically see as lesser just either have to accept it or get lost... Technically they still do want man they just want the worst men out there because they've been so brainwashed by all those modern Harlequin novels and shallow tendencies are brought to light, while shaming men for having standards and boundaries.
As a lesbian, I dislike whenever they do that shit it's so weird to me. Like I don't mind it to much since well obviously they probably just wanted a strong lesbian character but how they do it pisses me off. They make it seem like that loving men is bad (which it isnt) which is sad because loving both women and men is not bad at all
@@Sillybook_faires These people are the control freaks. They have an idea of the world they want ppl to adhere to OR ELSE! This is the same exact cult mentality that oppressed Gay people in the past... (AND still in a lot of places around the world) "YOU CANT BE A LESBIAN CUS GOD OR WHATEVER... YOU CANT LIKE MEN CUS THEY ARE ALL BAD..." All of it extremist culty bullshit and a very dangerous thing...
It makes a lot more sense if you start to look at feminism through the guise that it has become, or perhapse replaced, the patriarchy for those who follow it. Instead of freeing women, it became a new prison. And unlike men--who may sometimes be misguided--it is a force that does not actually love women.
You were spot on with the fanfiction levels of writing. It really feels like those Wattpad writers that made self insert fanfiction when they were 13 grew up and now work in Hollywood without ever changing or improving their writing styles.
Just yesterday I had a hard day, and tried to drown myself in some light fun fanfiction But I unfortunately found the story (second popular one in my search!) that had the exactly same problems that Jester is talking about Mary sue do no wrong type of female protagonist (unfortunately it was also in the Lotr universe) But that was fanfiction! And the war of rohirrim is a major movie... This makes me so sad
I occasionally browse tumblr more than a decade ago. and then I realize those ff writer/fan art maker starting to boast about being accepted to Disney and other major entertainment creative industry jobs/companies. my dread at those times thinking major entertainment would be made and written by ff writers peeps came true...
It used to be toxic, but now they're straight-up villains framed as heroes. The scary part is that there are girls and women out there who love this crap. They're mentally unwell. If you ever had the misfortune to interact with them, you hear the most insane sht you've ever heard in your life. Even with good stories where the bad things the female lead is clearly portrayed as a flaw, they see it as a positive. They're the Leslie Headlands of the world.
This doesn’t get said enough. This needs to be the headline anytime the conversation is raised. This is point A through point Z as far as I’m concerned. It makes no sense
I can’t wait for the day when “I am woman hear me roar I don’t need no man I’m better than everyone else and you’re the bad guy” is parodied and rightfully mocked.
@@darkknightfan7520 I don’t want that day to come. Some Female characters need men like how Sailor Moon sometimes needs Tuxedo mask to throw a Rose to the Bad Guy & says “Farewell, until we meet again”
It's like when my best friend and I were young and playing. We constructed a whole world with rules and persistent characters and we were having the best time. Until my friend's Mom walks in with his sister and says, "You have to include her". We'd object because every time we try to include her she changes the rules and doesn't care what happened before she got there. Suddenly nothing makes sense anymore and the characters are all princesses and ponies. We lose interest, leave, and then get punished by the mom for not playing nice. WTF OVER!?!? I guess some things never change.
That's because the storyline is usually that the woman just has to believe herself and use her power and she can do anything and beat anyone. It's also really dull when the hero wins because she believes in herself rather than using resourcefulness, ingenuity, friendships, endurance, self sacrifice, or anything else.
@@leonais1 yes but WHY is the storyline like that? I'd say it's because women are assumed to be a finished product, and they look for men who are finished products (generally). Men understand the vast difference between themselves as a child, teenager and as a grown man with real responsibilities. The hero's journey is a male journey, period. It's funny that 19th century Russian novelists wrote better women characters with growth (or progression) but actual women and feminist-aligned men can't write themselves out of a wet paper bag.
@@theflyingkaramazovbrothers6 Anne of Green Gables, Little Women, and Jane Austen's novels were about girls becoming emotionally mature, assuming responsibilities, overcoming character flaws, and learning to get along with other people. (The latest screen versions have been badly skewed.) The novels depict it better than TV or movies can because book pages depict slow burn plots better than cameras. The plots weren't about toppling or smashing society but finding your place in it. Which usually involved getting married.
Wonder Woman (2017) is one of my favorite superhero movies because Diana was allowed to be strong and powerful, but still fall in love with Steve Trevor! That's how it SHOULD be! Steve and Diana were such a good team and seemed like equals, even though Steve had no superpowers. And Diana was soft and caring, not cold and stoic like these typical girlboss characters. God, I just want more love stories like that. A video about this would be interesting and how the first Wonder Woman movie was able to execute this balance perfectly!
I felt sure they would screw up Wonder Woman and left the theater floored that they allowed the character and movie to be as you described. It's like they can't conceive that it's impossible to be brave when you have nothing to worry about.
I love that movie for all the reasons you mentioned! It's wild how so many people missed the point. Diana's the most physically powerful being on the Earth. She's a goddess. She can do whatever she wants, and no one can stop her. But like Superman, she's not interested in being a conqueror. Her strength is shown through kindness and compassion. She's not arrogant or cruel, and she only resorts to violence in defense of the weak. Back when it was still in theaters, I ended up getting into it with some male feminists on FB. They were complaining about that brief part where she's walking through London and lights up at the sight of a baby. I loved that moment! I guess that bit was not cool, though. According to them, her reaction played into a "harmful stereotype" that "all women have inherent maternal instincts." Apparently, showing that very feminine, nurturing side of her character diminished her strength as a warrior. They were basically arguing that femininity is incompatible with strength, without realizing it.
I've never liked the idea that, to be a strong character, a female has to be rude and arrogant. It reveals a double standard. If a man is like that, he'll learn some humility and change. A woman is seen as perfect because she stands up for herself.
Not forget"gingercide"! Marlon Wayans could've easily played doc, another black and underused joe, rather than turning ripcord the redhead chocolate covered!
One need not be rude and arrogant to stand up for one's self, but if it's done well it sure helps. All rules have exceptions. Yours are no different. "If a man is like that he'll learn some humility and change." Really? Will Farrel Didn't. A lot of the other ones I'm thinking of died quite young so, I guess that's change... but it skips the humility part. George Carlin warned us about being concerned about offending others. Up 'til the 1900's, we didn't really communicate with other groups of humans from around the world, we migrated to get further away from them. People don't really like other people, mostly speaking anyway. I don't understand why that's a difficult concept to grasp. People're crazy.
@@Dam-a-fence This response is all over the place. What does Will Farrell have to do with anything? People generally don't like arrogant people, simple as that.
@@diemes5463 And almost all of the "arrogant" characters in films starring men have them either dying from sacrifice or losing something essential that forces them to lose their arrogance, such as Beowulf, and Conan The Babarian (who literally loses his life and the woman he loved had to sacrifice herself to bring him back), and Anakin, who lost all his limbs and his wife.
Whoever accuses you of internalized misogyny has no idea what they’re talking about. You’ve spoken the truth that we have all been saying for ages! I just want strongly-written female characters of ALL kinds again, this is pretty much why I’ve been careful with where to look for them. I’m done with the flawless, girlboss, Mary-Sue bs.
I recommend Arcane or the top anime of this decade Friren. They got it right! Even when the focus is on Female leads the other char are awesome too and none are Mary-Sues... You could not even argue that with Frieren as she is true to what an ELF mage would be like in a realistic setting... The overwhelming power makes sense YET she still has FLAWS! Arcane and Friren those shows legit have the BEST modern protagonists and stories I have seen. Even disregarding tho whole sex of the characters they are just brilliant!
I recommend Dandadan. Not only is Momo RIGHTFULLY an actual badass female who still has flaws, but her and the male MC Okarun have a great dynamic and actually work together and complement each other well!
@@BenHopkins1000 I have not watched it as I am not too into historical stuff of that era. Samurai stuff specifically doesn't interest me much :'D I watched too many westerns as a kid and they blend with that XD
TLDR: I really feel stunning and brave sticking to being "traditionally femine" irl at this point in culture. Dude you cannot imagine the amount of hate I get from other women for having long hair and wearing long dresses. And they disgustingly try to pretend their harassment is "just care" for me. Even after hearing multiple times I'm more comfortable with just putting my hair in the neat bun instead of having it fall into my eyes and dangling around all the time and that trousers seams are opression and I hate how they feel pushing into my privates when I move. That's the most annoyng part. They pretend to care, but refuse to listen. "Oh, you will be much more comfortable if you submit and stop sticking out". No, I won't, I tried and I was miserable.
To think that being strong only means being physically superior and mastering talents without any hardships is such a misguided message. Having empathy, being there for others, and standing up for others is just as strong. I also can’t believe that the simple desire to be loved is seen as a weak or misogynistic thing, especially when we are living in times where love, in all its forms, is needed more than ever.
Girl Boss characters are written nearly all the same, aimless, loveless, flawless, cynical, sad, angry, they know everything and they think everyone's an idiot but them. All the actually good strong female characters are thrown to the side, spat on or seen as outdated when it's not the case.
Exec1: "Lets make a strong female character!" Exec2: "Great! She needs to bench at least 10 tons, no 20 tons!" Exec3: "What about her personality?" Exec1: "Personality?"
@@atoth62 Run Hide Fight from 2020 is a good example of how you write a badass likable female character. She actually has an arc and she chose to do the right thing, thinks on her feet and helps all the students and teachers out of the school. Her dad even helps out too. And there's a scene where she says to the school shooter via streaming: "You think they're (anyone) gonna remember you? No! They're gonna remember me!" and I cheered during that scene. That's a great scene because 1: It's earned because the lead is likable and when the lead is likable and has an arc, it's savory. 2. She's right because history remembers people for their acts of courage, and they don't remember psychopaths who harm and kill innocent people.
Hera (or however it is written) is not even all of that though, she is aimless, loveless (for other men than her direct family) but i would not say she is cynical or angry. She was way closer to an actual decent character than most modern day heroines. 4 or 5 years ago she could have passed as a decent character, but now? Now absolutely not. Her saying she will mary no man makes no sense for the daughter of a king, even less when she is the last of her bloodline, that is very egoistic of her. She may present herself as putting the lives of the people of Rohan first, but she does not care to continue the line of kings? That i would say is her worst trait. She should have been a side character in the story of Helm Hammerhand, maybe seen from her perspective sure but she is NOT the main character, or should not be rather. Written by a decent author she could have been a good character, they were closer than the likes of Rey or she hulk or whatever else.
@@Nartanekpersonally, I don't care how well she is written, the same as Kili and Tauriel romance writings, including making Denethor this gross of a human being, she's not canon, and I will never accept her, especially due to her name, idk who the Japanese team hires but they get trolled hard but using the name Hera in itself
These people don't know the difference between a heroine and a villainess. Some of that comes from their ideology that she has "internal plumbing", and therefore is automatically a heroine... regardless of what she does. Some of that comes from their lack of accountability.
Tell that to Batman. Dude's always pushing other heroes who aren't him or his child soldiers down. Especially after Tower of Babel where making him overly cynical and paranoid became the norm.
A truly strong female character doesn’t need to tell the audience about how strong and great she is, or tear down and insult the male characters around her. These “girlboss” characters feel so manufactured, that’s why they all feel the same. Hollywood wants to create an “empowering female role model” but the end result is more like a toxic narcissist, who believes herself to be better than everyone around her, doesn’t change because she’s “perfect”, and then is rewarded with power and praise for simply existing. How is anyone supposed to connect to a character like that?
Yeh I think it's why I prefer a lot of the female characters in anime with how they're written. A lot of them are insanely powerful and can be strongest in verse but the way they're written is really good. They have their flaws, a likeable personality (generally) or just have something to enjoy about them. They just feel more human and relatable. Even the ones that are a little bit of an asshole at the start will undergo change and become better people as the plot progresses. The story doesn't hold their hand and it certainly doesn't allow them to be right all the time. Like generally if they're talking down to other characters or belittling them it's at the start of their character arc and it's not their only personality trait. I mean I would take a Ryuko or Revy over anything Hollywood has to offer.
It shares the same problem that comes with trying to make an iconic character. If you create a great character then they can become iconic, but actually approaching character writing with the objective of trying to make an icon will typically fail because it generally ends up feeling forced. You focus so much on trying to give them traits that you think will make them iconic that you forget to write an actual character, and as a result the audience can't connect to them. You can't just manufacture an icon or a role model by just going down a checklist of famous surface-level things that they said or did. Characters like Sarah Connor, or Katara, or Ahsoka aren't beloved icons of their fandoms because they can hit things really hard. They're held in such high regard because they're well written characters with their own significant flaws, who struggle to overcome adversity, who grow as people throughout their stories, and who hold their own among both allies and enemies who are consistently competent in their own right as opposed to only standing out by virtue of everyone around them becoming bumbling morons whenever the writer needs to make them look good.
They don't even understand females, how females function or female nature. I loathe wokeism and how men, particularly straight white men, are having everything they've built stolen from them by entitled women, but, at the same time, there's so much unexplored terrain in film/TV regarding females. There are entire genres that could be built around females and female nature, in the same way there are ones built around males, and male nature (ie the western, action films etc). Women are not men, and never will be. They don't function like men, they don't engage in conflict like men, they don't do evil like men, they don't do good like men, they don't express emotions like men, they have completely different qualities. Yet all these woke feminist creators are intent on ignoring these simple facts, and making all these female characters weird, masculine ideals of what they want to be. The last interesting female character I saw on screen was the villain in Gone Girl. That was a female villain we'd never seen before, being villainous in typically female ways. Being manipulative, using her sexuality, sex and reproduction, false allegations, framing her boyfriend, playing the victim etc. It was interesting and new, but something that happens in reality every day.
I think you put it into words perfectly. People have just been burned by Hollywood's nonsense so many times that the minute we see a female character, we automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion because we've been so conditioned to it.
Not just in movies, in every area of society. Even this video culminates in her blaming men, and not criticising women in any way. Apparently, it's men's fault that men have handed over the industry they built to unqualified, woke, man-hating, entitled women.
The funny thing is most women actually want that - to find love and potentially start a family. But the girlboss narrative doesn't want to acknowledge that. Instead, women should want everything a man wants and strive to be just like a man. Make it make sense!? 😂
Speaking as a man who also wants a family. I think society saw people like Trump or elon musk and thought i want yhat i want sucess and riches and all that jazz. But took only the negative straights of men and forgot our actual positive traits
I absolutely agree with all of this. Totally spot on. It's a reason why I focus on older films more than new ones because they have such deep, meaningful, brilliantly written characters that we love and care for.
Yep people forget that part of her story... she doesn't stay on the battlefield after her great victory. She was only on the battlefield because she felt she had nothing to live for. I personally dislike calling her a girlboss because her story could have easily turned out to be a tragedy. Hell it would have done if Merry hadn't helped her by stabbing the witch king and offering a distraction. She didn't beat the Witch king on her own, and she didn't speak down to Merry or the other men either. She wasn't the strongest either, the witch king probably would have won the fight if he hadn't been so cocky about the whole prophecy and Merry's assistance. This isn't to take the feat away from her as her scene is epic. "Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her" “I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,” she said; “and behold! the Shadow has departed! I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren” People forget the change she goes through.
And she didn’t defy the societal rules for her own narcissism or entitlement, she did it to protect her family. Just like Mulan. They acted out of love, not hated. But, the shadow can only mock not create.
Ah she’s not a girl boss, she’s a strong woman. Back when that meant anything. Girl bosses are literal GIRLS bc they’re kinda dumb and don’t understand how the world works, but she’s the boss somehow. 🙄
Sorry if someone else already said it but I’m starting to think the most common trait in the Girl-Boss/ strong independent female/ marySue trope… Is that they don’t have any real personal flaw to overcome. They’re all written as perfect and capable and there’s nothing wrong with them. For example, Luke Skywalker is a great hero, he started off naive, reckless eager for excitement but yoda puts him in his place and learns the harsh reality of things with Vader’s revelation. He starts off as a simple farm boy to a Jedi master and savior of the galaxy. He has relatable flaws, but the movie shows he’s also a good person and that’s what makes him likeable and we the audience, want him to ultimately succeed.
The problem is that Hollywood is a business and businesses don't see creativity as valuable. They don't look for new ideas, they look for trends. Hollywood looks for safe investments and then they jump on the bandwagon until we are all pulling our hair out and screaming for change. Hollywood will take tropes that are popular and run them into the ground long past the point we are all sick of them and then they will hop on the next one and we will be saying the same thing in another 10 years. Hollywood and entertainment media doesn't have an obligation to be creative or original, they have an obligation to the shareholders to make money. That's all.
I think one reason the girlboss character is boring is that she is just magically great at everything. She doesn't have to go through any sort of struggle to get there. She doesn't rise from puny and weak to become strong. She just *is* strong from the beginning. No struggle, no character arc, no character development, no real weaknesses or shortcomings. That makes for a very boring and unrelatable character.
You nailed it. Why would anyone care about a girlboss when we all know she's going to figure it out, she's going to come out on top, she's going to upstage all the men, and as such she's never in any real danger?
Its not even that. Its the lack of real character flaws. A mc can be overpowered in regards to strength. For example Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai is ridiculously overpowered. But she also has clear flaws that make her a compelling character despite how powerful she is. The main difference is that Mizu is well written. Most of these modern girl boss characters aren't.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u Alita is the same way. OP but also flawed and/or she has emotional turmoil. It gets explored in the film and OVA for most audiences, or throughout the Battle Angel manga. This sounds like the Rey crap all over again.
When encountering this trope, I always think of the show "Slings & Arrows," where Darren Nichols (the show's avatar of everything wrong with modern theatre) is directing "Romeo & Juliet." He wants the cast to deliver their lines flatly and without emotion, and when the actress playing Juliet objects because the characters are in love, he says "They're not in love; they are signifiers." That's how this modern "strong woman" archetype feels: they are symbols in an intellectual treatise on the subject of modern feminism, rather than being actual characters with life of their own.
@@terryrocks2j I remember when a character in a X-Men movie said, "the women do everything in this team it should be 'X-Women'" it was made the people in the theater silent
Welcome to our world. We've been living with it since ever and it's good to have you aboard. Also, calling girlbosses "wooden planks" are an insult to wooden planks. A wooden plank has much more personality than 100 girlbosses combined.
At 1:50 this literally happened in that movie with Jennifer Lopez and the robot. The black guy, before his death scene, says the EXACT same thing. This also happened in the movie Prey; Naru's brother, just before his death scene, tells her that she was right all along. That's the new thing no in these films -- that the women were right all along, and the guys were wrong for doubting them, and that if the guys had just listened to the women, maybe they wouldn't have died. It's becoming tiring already.
Oh, thats been happening loong before present day. I first noticed it waay back 2009 with the cloudy with a chance of meatballs. This is sadly not a new thing, we just weren't as sensitized to it back then
@@JennySparkz It is not necesseraly wrong writing, specialy in cloudy with a chance of meatballs were part of Flins character arc is to lern to not be stuck in his fame. It just becomes lazy and boring when it happen every movie.
This is one of the things that annoys me about Korra in Legend of Korra, ESPECIALLY in S1 (and part of S2). This doesn't involve a death scene, but if Korra EVER sees something one way and the other characters see things differently, Korra is ALWAYS right. And it's not because she's particularly perceptive or thoughtful or has good instincts; she's generally the opposite--brash, hot-tempered, and emotional. And still, she's always right if there's two possible viewpoints. Conversely, because she's she's brash and hot-tempered, she makes several mistakes in her ACTIONS (not the same). She'll rashly act and make a situation worse or cause it to unravel (you can see how this conflicts with her ALWAYS making correct perceptions/observations). But in all of S1 (please fact-check me if you find an exception), she NEVER says the phrase, "I'm sorry." And yet, the person she's "apologizing" to ends up saying THEY'RE sorry. It's really weird and off-putting (to me).
...lol I was just about to say that. Almost all the stories now about women "deeply" in love, it's always with another woman, like The World To Come, or Am I Okay, or Korra, or Horizon, or The Last of Us, or Lionness, or ARK, or Tomb Raider, or Portrait of a Lady on Fire, or She-Ra, or Everything Everywhere All At Once, or Disenchantment, or Invasion, or Agatha All The Time, or Arcane.
What makes a good character? Flaws and being imperfect. Men characters can be complex and flawed but women characters have to be perfect, simple and flawless. We can’t relate to that because… everyone has flaws and that’s how we can relate to characters. We want complex motivations!
I've actually always thought that Girlbossing started with Frozen. Love it or hate it, Frozen had an amazing marketing campaign that convinced audiences the movie was so fresh and so original because it *didn't* have a traditional Disney romance story. (Never mind that Brave just came out one year before, but I digress.) As soon as Elsa uttered "Anna, you can't marry a man you just met" and everyone cheered, the stage was set for the next decade and change of Girlboss movies.
I think that as well and I hate Frozen for that. And I especially hate that they took a beautiful love story like Tangled and then completely ruined it in that stupid TV show to make it more modern or more like Frozen. Tangled has always been one of my favorite Disney movies, and I absolutely adore the love story of Rapunzel and Flynn. However, there’s something I absolutely cannot stand: the Tangled TV series. It ruined everything for me, and if I have to consider the series as canon, it would completely destroy my love for the original film. It’s honestly painful how they trashed Flynn’s character and their entire relationship just to cater to some misguided notion of modern feminism and “progressive” ideals. They’ve turned Flynn into a bumbling fool, completely ruining the clever, charming, and smart character he was in the original movie. And worse yet, they’ve stripped Rapunzel of her independence and made her doubt the very love she so clearly shared with Flynn in the film. What infuriates me the most is how the series portrayed the idea of rejecting a marriage proposal and then staying together as if that was somehow a healthy or sensible thing to do. In the time period this story is set, marriage wasn’t just about a wedding ceremony-it was about being together, about having a future, about building a life with someone. Back then, people married young because it was often the only way they could truly be together. Flynn’s proposal in the movie wasn’t rushed-it was a natural progression of their deep love for each other, especially given the era they lived in. But in the series, the message is clear: marriage is a prison-even if you love someone deeply, even if you’ve been together for months or a year. This is a terrible message, and it’s absurd. If you love someone, you want to marry them. You don’t reject them because you feel like it will strip you of your freedom. That’s a red flag that implies you don’t actually see a future with them. Marriage isn’t a trap-it’s a symbol of commitment and love. If someone considers marriage to be a prison, they’re subconsciously thinking about cheating or breaking up. And that’s not love! The historical inaccuracy is also glaring. Back in the time period this story is set in, marriage was the way for two people to be together. There was no “waiting for a few years to decide” because society didn’t allow that. No one could just live together as a couple back then, especially if you were a princess. The idea that Rapunzel and Flynn should have waited years to get married is ridiculous. If anything, they should have been portrayed as a couple eager to get married as soon as possible because that’s what would have made sense for their time. And don’t get me started on how the series turned Rapunzel into a fighting, modern-day “Mary Sue” girlboss character. In the original fairy tale, Rapunzel was already empowered-she made decisions for herself, let the prince into her tower, and plotted her own escape. The only thing that’s different in the series is that they’ve amped up her physical strength to make her more “modern” and “feminist,” as if it wasn’t already clear from the original that she was no damsel in distress. This change in her character feels unnecessary and forced, and it completely undermines the beauty of the original tale, Petrosinella, where her love for the prince was a true source of freedom, not a burden. To add to my frustration, I despise how they twisted the whole narrative to fit a “modern feminist” agenda. The original Rapunzel (or Petrosinella, as it’s known in Basile’s version) is a beautiful love story, and Disney’s series ruined that. Rapunzel was a girl in an oppressive situation who found freedom and love in the prince, which was an empowering message. She wasn’t just waiting for a man, she was waiting for a future and a life outside the tower-and a marriage to a prince was the way to escape. That was reality for women at the time. So why is that seen as a problem now? And don’t even get me started on how they made Flynn look. In the series, he’s turned into a completely different character-dumbed down, less charming, and just… wrong. He’s not the clever rogue who stole Rapunzel’s heart in the movie. He’s a different person altogether, and I refuse to believe he’s the same guy. It’s honestly insulting to the character development we saw in Tangled. At the end of the day, I refuse to count the series as canon. It’s not. The original movie is still my canon, and I firmly believe the writers of the original film intended for Rapunzel and Flynn’s story to end right after the movie, with their love continuing in the short film Tangled Ever After. If the series had never happened, their love story would have been perfect, and I could have continued to enjoy the magic of the movie without this unnecessary and frustrating complication. The series just isn’t believable. It doesn’t fit with the tone of the original movie. And it absolutely doesn’t fit with the world that the Brothers Grimm or Basile created. If the writers of the fairy tales saw how the original story was meant to be interpreted, they would be spinning in their graves. So, for my sanity’s sake, I’ll continue to treat the TV series as non-canon. I’ll take my happily-ever-after with Flynn and Rapunzel from the movie and ignore the disaster that came afterward. Disney really missed the mark here, and I just can’t forgive them for ruining such a beautiful love story. And I think it's all because of Frozen. Because Frozen made more money and was more popular. That's why I hate frozen now.
The problem I see in these "strong women" characters is that they tend to ignore the things that make a woman a woman, as if those things are the weakness. Women have a strength all of there own. She can be "strong" and still be feminine. They think that these women can't ever struggle or be bad at something or need help. It's those things that make a good character, it's all about the struggle. As a writer you need to spend time really watching people, learning them. I keep a little book and I write things down. People are complex and are never more than one thing. She can be a mother and a worrier, and if you can't write that character you need to spend more time learning people.
I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that they keep making the same trash over and over and it keeps bombing and they just keep going. It’s like a nasty restaurant no one goes too staying open despite never selling any food.
Just remember folks: the subversion was in LOTR long ago. Gandalf got his butt kicked by Witchking in the extended cut (which didn't happen in the book) and Theoden charged into a heard of raging Oliphants like an idiot (also not in the book) for no other reason than to make those characters weaker. Woke crept in before it had a name.
Mastersamwise made some AMAZING videos on this topic "Audiences hate BAD WRITING not strong women" We are sick and tired of the terrible writing to push narratives that ppl are uninterested in.
Actually, the tolkien estate has said that nobody is allowed to adapt the story of Baron and luthien, specifically because they don't want it tarnished
Probably for the best, especially since we probably aren’t going to see anyone with any sense of integrity, intelligence, humility, or respect for the source material for a long time.
We are all sick and tired of it. When women hate this trope, it is time to place it on the ashbin of history. Great rant. It is nice to hear this concern from women who are just as sickened by all of this as men.
Exactly. Women generally want relationships. You know who else does? Men. We can struggle through the world and love too. That's how it's supposed to be.
There are those of us who are trying to write genuinely good female characters. The only way this trend will change is if those works get more support.
The zeitgeist will make sure that does not happen. You will be shortchanged of support or recognition via suppression. This has been happening a lot for the past 15 years.
When it comes to millionaire projects, it's nepo babies failing upwards, but there's plenty of fun female leads in literature who are kind, classically feminine, and find happiness in a relationship, written by and for women. Shocker, amirite
@@Billy-bc8pk See, if you're going to assume that the game is lost without even moving a single piece, then yes, failure is the only option. Let us not forget, however, that everything popular today was new and unproven at some point in the past. How did they become so popular? Because people supported them to the point where they became the zeitgeist. For my own part, I'd rather contribute to changing things than just roll over and give up. You can admit defeat if you want to, but I'm going to persevere.
@@maf7742 The "nepo babies" will have their time, but they won't last forever. the tides are turning, and once the heads of the system remember that they need quality work to make money, they'll have to look for it somewhere. Then you'll see a truly significant shift.
@@omniviewer2115 If you're an optimist, then yes, you are wholly correct. Some of us are a little too jaded and pessimistic due to current trends to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But, for a prosperous society, many have to hope that you are correct.
This rant is perfectly valid. It literally blows my mind how tone deaf Hollywood is as an industry. I guess they just give out those jobs to anyone nowadays, as long as they sign the contract saying that they have to mainly work as an activist to further their agenda.
Olivia de Havilland's Maid Marion from The Adventures of Robin Hood still blows me away and that was from 1938! It's shocking but I've found a lot of dynamic female characters in older movies, so it's clearly very possible to do and should be easier than ever before, and yet...
The hubris of postmodernists in a nutshell. They think no one who came before them had the same concerns or faced the same problems that they think they’re facing.
This is so on point. I discovered that there are so many B movies from the fifties that have strong female characters! The characters are kick ass, usually by being smart or able to take charge, and to be clear, not better than the men, just equally capable. And yeah, in the course of the story, sometimes she and the male lead find love. It all makes sense and doesn't feel at all contrived. Anyway, I just wanted to second your point! Cheers.
Too true - Katie Holstrom from "The Farmer's Daughter" (the 1946 version) - Eliza Doolittle from "My Fair Lady" - Mother Robinson from Disney's "Swiss Family Robinson" - Mammy from "Gone With the Wind" - Dorothy Gale from "The Wizard of Oz" - Even Ann Darrow from "King Kong" (the 1933 version ) All relatable female characters. Not to mention characters in famous books (by Jane Austen, Elizabeth Gaskell, George Elliot, the Bronte sisters, Lucy Montgomery ) that were adapted into film and television.
Ah, yes, classic movie heroines. Charlotte Vale in "Now, Voyager." Paula/Margaret in "Random Harvest." Francie Nolan in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn." Emma Hamilton in "That Hamilton Woman." Henriette Deluzy in "All This and Heaven Too." Jean and Terry in "Stage Door." Helen in "The Day the Earth Stood Still." Annie Sullivan in "The Miracle Worker." Babe Bennett in "Mr. Deeds Goes to Town." And since 'tis the season, let's talk about Mary Bailey for a minute. "It's a Wonderful Life" gets accused of sexism because of the depiction of Mary's fate in Pottersville, but what gets forgotten is that after George runs out of the house after having blown up at his kids, Mary goes straight to the telephone to put a plan in motion to save him. She doesn't rely on prayer, although she does instruct the kids to pray. Neither does she wait for someone else to solve the problem. She immediately contacts Uncle Billy, and the two of them start collecting money. Also of note is that prior to this scene, the last time we saw Uncle Billy, he was a broken, helpless man, but when Mary enlists his help, she gives him a shot at redemption, so that when we see him at the end, he's his old, jovial self. Her actions save TWO men.
It's not even "modern feminism", it's just feminism, which is a tool to manipulate, control, and enslave women; while declaring liberation. 1880s feminism, 1920s feminism, and 1960s feminism would do the same thing if they got into positions of power.
I am currently writing a romantasy, with a spludge of war in it. And it is interesting to see the balance in the FMC between the caring, warm, motherly side. And the "do what needs to be done" side the war requires of her. Making her, a balanced, complex and realistic character. And she doubts herself a lot too. And before you ask, yes she has power... And a lot of others have expectations of her. And her choices matter. So... very complex.
How funny is that the male action characters in the 80s had more development and reason to be the one man army trope they were. "He was 20 years in the army, 10 of them as green beret/seal team 6. ", "He is a badass cop 15 years on the job", " He trained 12 years as shaolin monk". Now its 20 something skinny girls kicking ass and taking names from the day she is 15 lmao.
Jester Bell: I would like to see a female character whose only motivation is “I want to get married and find true love. Me: let me introduce you to Mitsuri Kanroji from demon slayer
Thank you for saying this!! I completely agree with everything you said! I’m so tired of these characters. I want interesting and nuanced female characters back again. I love Arcane for this exact reason. Would you consider discussing the creative betrayal of existing characters as well? For instance, when directors take pre-existing characters and completely alter their personalities to fit a new narrative, like Lara Croft, and yes Snow White, and others. I find it incredibly offensive , especially for the women who genuinely liked those characters. When they try to “fix” them, it feels like they’re implying that all those women were somehow wrong or misogynistic for enjoying those stories as they were. I’d love to hear your take on this. You already hinted at it with the Snow White movie, but I think a full video exploring Lara Croft and similar characters who’ve been altered beyond recognition would be really interesting.
I would like to see that too. The characters that come to mind for me are Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (and the way they felt it was necessary to undermine his relationship with Princess Leia because of their son Ben / Kylo Ren's going to The Dark Side... I mean, they still could have written Kylo Ren the same way, without it causing a rift between his parents; in fact, they could have written it so that Han & Leia were still together, without them undermining Han by having Leia upset with him... Why, why would she hold that against him; it's totally uncharacteristic of her AND speaking of unrealistic changes in the continuity of a character... Luke Skywalker was all about hope... He was what the title "A New Hope" was eluding to. He kept going, determined to do the right thing and he saved his father / Vader. Only for Disney to rewrite him as a quitter and a hermit who had abandoned his friends / family because his nephew turned to The Dark Side?! ...They did not need to undermine his character to build Rey up as the hero. They could have made her the hero and still left the original characters intact. It seemed spiteful to me. True heroes don't need to belittle others to be great; even if she didn't do it directly... They were deminished to make her appear even greater in contrast to their failures. Seems small minded and petty to me, not to mention lazy writing.
I think the main issue is there seems to be some kind of rules Hollywood writers are required to follow. It is not just women, no minority is allowed to be portrayed as bad in any way, being emotional is bad, so they have to be stoic, having flaws is bad so they cannot have those, feminism says straight relationships is bad so you cannot that. Due to the rules they follow, only straight white men are allowed to be interesting characters, but they also need to follow a rule that such characters must be rarely on screen in order to lift up women and minorities even though those characters are written poorly due to the rules they follow.
The whole problem is the perceived 'victim hierarchy' of modern progressive thinking is just crippling when it comes to storytelling. When you start creating these artificial barriers then you instantly start limiting yourself in regards to what you can do with the characters.
I will recommend if you want good women characters in a film or show, I recommend blue eye samurai, arcane and shogun. Now those three were perfect, the women in them are strong in their own way and have flaws like a normal human.
Funny thing is that Eowyn's ambitions are exactly why Aragorn chose Arwen over her. Not because he doesn't like warrior women, but because Arwen and Eowyn had different views on duty. Eowyn ignored her duty to her people simply because she wanted to prove she was badass. But Arwen was patient and accepted the role she had to play for the good of Middle-Earth. The books made it clear that Eowyn is a noble woman and her heart was in the right place, but she had a lot of maturing to do. And that is why Aragorn chose Arwen over her.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Don't think Eowyn wanted to prove she's badass. She wished to fight for her king. Similar things happen in real life sometimes, for example Milunka Savic, Serbian female soldier and officially the most decorated female soldier in history. Look her up.
@@vetarlittorf1807 I'm pretty sure Aragorn chose Arwen over Eowyn because he loved her and had already pledged to marry her. Don't think there's anything more to read into that, tbh.
So true. This has gotten way out of hand, and many times the girl boss has all the traits of toxic masculinity that all of us fantasy fans don’t like. I’m subbing
For a long 10 years we have had some of the most insufferable girl bosses in cinema created. Can’t we have likeable female characters again in our movies, it’s not that hard
Well, what more needs to be said? We've been decrying this from the start, and have been ignored for a literal decade. Because we don't matter. It won't change until the mainstream articles start calling it out. Because that's who these creatives are trying to impress. Them and a small but loud group on social media. It's funny which vocal minorities matter, and which vocal minorities don't.
The idea that executives who were covering up for Harvey Weinstein & similar men are now trying to make up for it by making "girl power" movies never occurred to me but it makes so much sense. It's not even a good way to apologize and yet they still fail at it.
A movie with a brave prince saving a vulnerable princess from a dragon or something super traditional like that would be shocking today...and it would sell like gangbusters
Honestly, I've had it up to here with this trope since Frozen came out ten years ago. I was in denial at the time of what it was doing, but with everyone twisting every little detail in that film, it finally reached a boiling point. I'm going back to literature, even to its infancy.
When was the last time we saw a genuine romance film. Not rom-com. Not romantic sub plots in a bigger action adventure film. Pure noir inspired romance... I miss love 😢
I thought I was the only one wanting it to be over. The scene with the king that you mention I did get up to get out there but I forgot I paid for it on IMAX and force by myself to finish it. This movie has a bad script but the worst part is when they kill (a character, won't spoil it) everyone stands there not thinking to kill them with the archers or maybe go down there and end it, there are two of them just finish it guys, that for me was the part that the film lost me completely. This movie is a bad cash grab lazy story made specifically to retain the rights to the movies, also the girl boss is very bad in this movie full force in your face.
I had a feeling that movie was going to take the 'independent woman' and 'girl boss' route, so I chose to avoid it altogether. Over the past few years, I’ve become cautious about movies with female leads because of the direction many of them are taking. One of my all-time favorite films is *Ever After*, inspired by the story of Cinderella. Danielle, played by Drew Barrymore, was such a beautifully crafted character. She didn’t rely on wielding a sword or showcasing physical strength to shine. Instead, she led with humility, grace, wisdom, kindness, and love. Her servant’s heart was her true strength, and that’s what made her character truly magnificent. Sadly, female characters with that kind of depth and quiet strength are rarely created anymore.
You've had it? We fellas had had it like 10 years ago where men can never stand up to or out say or anything over a woman! I used to sit there and say, "Why isn't he answering her back? She's clearly wrong?" Glad even the women are seeing it now.
Funny how ''strong women'' in movies are basically written as toxic men yet are supposed to be considered likeable.
100%
And want us to live in their matriarchy.
Lots of audiences like toxic guys so they assume they would work on female characters as well, forgetting the fact that Hollywood audience can forgive male rapists actors but not female being annoying
Because there's no such thing as 'toxic masculinity' they just used that to guilt men while they took his exact place. Glad to see some of you finally getting it.
The priorities of these Hollywood executives and writers are so skewed, it's unreal...
Traditionally masculine characters are toxic, unless the female character somehow is impressed with him only sexually and fantasizes about being dominated by him.
Or they portray male characters as safe, meek, and mostly incompetent to but somehow these chicks are with them... Or in the case of the girl boss type these men are berated and condescended for existing because this is a better way forward, blah blah blah, smash the patriarchy.
But if a woman is toxic it's perfectly fine, because accountability is a foreign concept... women should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want and men they automatically see as lesser just either have to accept it or get lost... Technically they still do want man they just want the worst men out there because they've been so brainwashed by all those modern Harlequin novels and shallow tendencies are brought to light, while shaming men for having standards and boundaries.
I miss those times when Men andn Women worked together back to back to protect and complement each other...
Like Conan and Valeria
Men and women failed each other
@@Mymlochexactly the example I was thinking of!
Neo and Trinity
Same here
You were correct, but you missed one. The girl boss is also allowed to find love, if she's lesbian.
I was waiting for her to say that
Which is exactly what they have done with Lara Croft in her Netflix animation show. 🤦♂️
Yes, she's not allowed to fall in love with men because "it takes away her agency", it's just so ridiculous.
As a lesbian, I dislike whenever they do that shit it's so weird to me. Like I don't mind it to much since well obviously they probably just wanted a strong lesbian character but how they do it pisses me off. They make it seem like that loving men is bad (which it isnt) which is sad because loving both women and men is not bad at all
@@Sillybook_faires These people are the control freaks. They have an idea of the world they want ppl to adhere to OR ELSE!
This is the same exact cult mentality that oppressed Gay people in the past... (AND still in a lot of places around the world)
"YOU CANT BE A LESBIAN CUS GOD OR WHATEVER...
YOU CANT LIKE MEN CUS THEY ARE ALL BAD..."
All of it extremist culty bullshit and a very dangerous thing...
A story written by a WW1 vet to his son in the WW2 trenches does not need a feminist revision.
Being a feminist and telling other women they can’t think for themselves cause of “internalized misogyny” is so half ass backwards 💀
I hate that manly white feminists want to get rid of classic femininity. Toxic masculinity iw th3 problem not femininity or health masculinity
Naw, naw... It's the full ass they are showing.
It makes a lot more sense if you start to look at feminism through the guise that it has become, or perhapse replaced, the patriarchy for those who follow it. Instead of freeing women, it became a new prison. And unlike men--who may sometimes be misguided--it is a force that does not actually love women.
Half assed? I'm pretty sure that FULL ASSED backwards
@@KatallinaVT Full circle revolution, damn.
You were spot on with the fanfiction levels of writing. It really feels like those Wattpad writers that made self insert fanfiction when they were 13 grew up and now work in Hollywood without ever changing or improving their writing styles.
YUSSSS I'm so glad someone else agrees with the fanfic stuff
Just yesterday I had a hard day, and tried to drown myself in some light fun fanfiction
But I unfortunately found the story (second popular one in my search!) that had the exactly same problems that Jester is talking about Mary sue do no wrong type of female protagonist (unfortunately it was also in the Lotr universe)
But that was fanfiction!
And the war of rohirrim is a major movie...
This makes me so sad
I occasionally browse tumblr more than a decade ago. and then I realize those ff writer/fan art maker starting to boast about being accepted to Disney and other major entertainment creative industry jobs/companies. my dread at those times thinking major entertainment would be made and written by ff writers peeps came true...
what i learned from movies: a man with certain traits is "toxic", a woman with the same traits is a "girlboss".
Pretty much
If they casted the girlboss character as dudes, they will still be hated. Nobody likes that type of person.
💯
It used to be toxic, but now they're straight-up villains framed as heroes.
The scary part is that there are girls and women out there who love this crap. They're mentally unwell. If you ever had the misfortune to interact with them, you hear the most insane sht you've ever heard in your life. Even with good stories where the bad things the female lead is clearly portrayed as a flaw, they see it as a positive.
They're the Leslie Headlands of the world.
This doesn’t get said enough. This needs to be the headline anytime the conversation is raised. This is point A through point Z as far as I’m concerned. It makes no sense
You forgot something Jes. A girlboss isn’t allowed to find love, unless it’s with another female.
Exactly.
I can’t wait for the day when “I am woman hear me roar I don’t need no man I’m better than everyone else and you’re the bad guy” is parodied and rightfully mocked.
@@darkknightfan7520 I don’t want that day to come.
Some Female characters need men like how Sailor Moon sometimes needs Tuxedo mask to throw a Rose to the Bad Guy & says “Farewell, until we meet again”
There doesn't even need to be a parody of them because they're already a huge joke anyway
I am man, hear me snore 😀
Might have to wait a few years since it's still a "culturally relevant issue" and "not politically correct"
Scary Movie 6 is the potential hero we need right now
It's like when my best friend and I were young and playing. We constructed a whole world with rules and persistent characters and we were having the best time. Until my friend's Mom walks in with his sister and says, "You have to include her". We'd object because every time we try to include her she changes the rules and doesn't care what happened before she got there. Suddenly nothing makes sense anymore and the characters are all princesses and ponies. We lose interest, leave, and then get punished by the mom for not playing nice. WTF OVER!?!?
I guess some things never change.
Gatekeep harder brothers.
Hahaha, someone else still says :
"What the Fuck, OVER!"
Can I assume that you could possibly be a 80s to 90s kid?
@@SmokestackLightning3.14I'm born in 81 and I never, ever heard that term...
The character arc of the modern girl boss is the same as the classic VILLAIN. A complete and overwhelming lust for power.
That's because the storyline is usually that the woman just has to believe herself and use her power and she can do anything and beat anyone. It's also really dull when the hero wins because she believes in herself rather than using resourcefulness, ingenuity, friendships, endurance, self sacrifice, or anything else.
And like so many villains they're two dimensional
@@leonais1 yes but WHY is the storyline like that? I'd say it's because women are assumed to be a finished product, and they look for men who are finished products (generally). Men understand the vast difference between themselves as a child, teenager and as a grown man with real responsibilities. The hero's journey is a male journey, period. It's funny that 19th century Russian novelists wrote better women characters with growth (or progression) but actual women and feminist-aligned men can't write themselves out of a wet paper bag.
@@theflyingkaramazovbrothers6 Anne of Green Gables, Little Women, and Jane Austen's novels were about girls becoming emotionally mature, assuming responsibilities, overcoming character flaws, and learning to get along with other people. (The latest screen versions have been badly skewed.) The novels depict it better than TV or movies can because book pages depict slow burn plots better than cameras. The plots weren't about toppling or smashing society but finding your place in it. Which usually involved getting married.
Is it a problem when a man does it, or is it just women?
Wonder Woman (2017) is one of my favorite superhero movies because Diana was allowed to be strong and powerful, but still fall in love with Steve Trevor! That's how it SHOULD be! Steve and Diana were such a good team and seemed like equals, even though Steve had no superpowers. And Diana was soft and caring, not cold and stoic like these typical girlboss characters. God, I just want more love stories like that. A video about this would be interesting and how the first Wonder Woman movie was able to execute this balance perfectly!
I felt sure they would screw up Wonder Woman and left the theater floored that they allowed the character and movie to be as you described. It's like they can't conceive that it's impossible to be brave when you have nothing to worry about.
I love that movie for all the reasons you mentioned!
It's wild how so many people missed the point.
Diana's the most physically powerful being on the Earth. She's a goddess. She can do whatever she wants, and no one can stop her. But like Superman, she's not interested in being a conqueror. Her strength is shown through kindness and compassion. She's not arrogant or cruel, and she only resorts to violence in defense of the weak.
Back when it was still in theaters, I ended up getting into it with some male feminists on FB. They were complaining about that brief part where she's walking through London and lights up at the sight of a baby. I loved that moment!
I guess that bit was not cool, though. According to them, her reaction played into a "harmful stereotype" that "all women have inherent maternal instincts." Apparently, showing that very feminine, nurturing side of her character diminished her strength as a warrior. They were basically arguing that femininity is incompatible with strength, without realizing it.
Recommending Dandadan if u want a great female lead
@@johntan4997 Ayase is an average jane afaik, what makes her a great lead?
I could watch Gal read the phone book!
I've never liked the idea that, to be a strong character, a female has to be rude and arrogant. It reveals a double standard. If a man is like that, he'll learn some humility and change. A woman is seen as perfect because she stands up for herself.
Not forget"gingercide"! Marlon Wayans could've easily played doc, another black and underused joe, rather than turning ripcord the redhead chocolate covered!
One need not be rude and arrogant to stand up for one's self, but if it's done well it sure helps.
All rules have exceptions. Yours are no different.
"If a man is like that he'll learn some humility and change."
Really?
Will Farrel Didn't.
A lot of the other ones I'm thinking of died quite young so, I guess that's change... but it skips the humility part.
George Carlin warned us about being concerned about offending others.
Up 'til the 1900's, we didn't really communicate with other groups of humans from around the world, we migrated to get further away from them. People don't really like other people, mostly speaking anyway. I don't understand why that's a difficult concept to grasp. People're crazy.
Bingo.
@@Dam-a-fence This response is all over the place. What does Will Farrell have to do with anything? People generally don't like arrogant people, simple as that.
@@diemes5463 And almost all of the "arrogant" characters in films starring men have them either dying from sacrifice or losing something essential that forces them to lose their arrogance, such as Beowulf, and Conan The Babarian (who literally loses his life and the woman he loved had to sacrifice herself to bring him back), and Anakin, who lost all his limbs and his wife.
Whoever accuses you of internalized misogyny has no idea what they’re talking about. You’ve spoken the truth that we have all been saying for ages! I just want strongly-written female characters of ALL kinds again, this is pretty much why I’ve been careful with where to look for them. I’m done with the flawless, girlboss, Mary-Sue bs.
I recommend Arcane or the top anime of this decade Friren.
They got it right!
Even when the focus is on Female leads the other char are awesome too and none are Mary-Sues...
You could not even argue that with Frieren as she is true to what an ELF mage would be like in a realistic setting... The overwhelming power makes sense YET she still has FLAWS!
Arcane and Friren those shows legit have the BEST modern protagonists and stories I have seen. Even disregarding tho whole sex of the characters they are just brilliant!
@@aziouss2863What about Blue Eye Samurai? Mizu’s a skilled killer in her own right, but she’s also not [“Invincible” title card] as hell…
I recommend Dandadan. Not only is Momo RIGHTFULLY an actual badass female who still has flaws, but her and the male MC Okarun have a great dynamic and actually work together and complement each other well!
@@BenHopkins1000 I have not watched it as I am not too into historical stuff of that era.
Samurai stuff specifically doesn't interest me much :'D
I watched too many westerns as a kid and they blend with that XD
@@aziouss2863Oh yeah, I should actually check it out. XD It’s been on my wish list for a while now.
So basically we re at the point now where a woman declaring she wants true love and marriage would be stunning and brave
It was stunning and brave when Jasmine said it in Aladdin
We’re at a point where ANYONE wanting true love in the not degenerate, ugly, fat, black, trans, way is stunning and brave.
If that's the case, I'm like lightyear ahead from them.
There are plenty of Christian movies you can enjoy.
TLDR: I really feel stunning and brave sticking to being "traditionally femine" irl at this point in culture.
Dude you cannot imagine the amount of hate I get from other women for having long hair and wearing long dresses. And they disgustingly try to pretend their harassment is "just care" for me. Even after hearing multiple times I'm more comfortable with just putting my hair in the neat bun instead of having it fall into my eyes and dangling around all the time and that trousers seams are opression and I hate how they feel pushing into my privates when I move.
That's the most annoyng part. They pretend to care, but refuse to listen. "Oh, you will be much more comfortable if you submit and stop sticking out".
No, I won't, I tried and I was miserable.
To think that being strong only means being physically superior and mastering talents without any hardships is such a misguided message. Having empathy, being there for others, and standing up for others is just as strong. I also can’t believe that the simple desire to be loved is seen as a weak or misogynistic thing, especially when we are living in times where love, in all its forms, is needed more than ever.
Girl Boss characters are written nearly all the same, aimless, loveless, flawless, cynical, sad, angry, they know everything and they think everyone's an idiot but them.
All the actually good strong female characters are thrown to the side, spat on or seen as outdated when it's not the case.
Exec1: "Lets make a strong female character!"
Exec2: "Great! She needs to bench at least 10 tons, no 20 tons!"
Exec3: "What about her personality?"
Exec1: "Personality?"
@@atoth62 Run Hide Fight from 2020 is a good example of how you write a badass likable female character. She actually has an arc and she chose to do the right thing, thinks on her feet and helps all the students and teachers out of the school. Her dad even helps out too. And there's a scene where she says to the school shooter via streaming: "You think they're (anyone) gonna remember you? No! They're gonna remember me!" and I cheered during that scene. That's a great scene because
1: It's earned because the lead is likable and when the lead is likable and has an arc, it's savory.
2. She's right because history remembers people for their acts of courage, and they don't remember psychopaths who harm and kill innocent people.
Hera (or however it is written) is not even all of that though, she is aimless, loveless (for other men than her direct family) but i would not say she is cynical or angry. She was way closer to an actual decent character than most modern day heroines. 4 or 5 years ago she could have passed as a decent character, but now? Now absolutely not. Her saying she will mary no man makes no sense for the daughter of a king, even less when she is the last of her bloodline, that is very egoistic of her. She may present herself as putting the lives of the people of Rohan first, but she does not care to continue the line of kings? That i would say is her worst trait. She should have been a side character in the story of Helm Hammerhand, maybe seen from her perspective sure but she is NOT the main character, or should not be rather.
Written by a decent author she could have been a good character, they were closer than the likes of Rey or she hulk or whatever else.
@@Nartanek Which Hera are you talking about ? The one from Greek mythology?
@@Nartanekpersonally, I don't care how well she is written, the same as Kili and Tauriel romance writings, including making Denethor this gross of a human being, she's not canon, and I will never accept her, especially due to her name, idk who the Japanese team hires but they get trolled hard but using the name Hera in itself
A hero is supposed to elevate others, not push them down.
These people don't know the difference between a heroine and a villainess.
Some of that comes from their ideology that she has "internal plumbing", and therefore is automatically a heroine... regardless of what she does.
Some of that comes from their lack of accountability.
Tell that to Batman. Dude's always pushing other heroes who aren't him or his child soldiers down. Especially after Tower of Babel where making him overly cynical and paranoid became the norm.
@@Drums_of_Liberation yeah Batman has become super annoying.
He’s Batman.
You really expect him to just be open, trusting and idiotic?
Great point.
A truly strong female character doesn’t need to tell the audience about how strong and great she is, or tear down and insult the male characters around her.
These “girlboss” characters feel so manufactured, that’s why they all feel the same. Hollywood wants to create an “empowering female role model” but the end result is more like a toxic narcissist, who believes herself to be better than everyone around her, doesn’t change because she’s “perfect”, and then is rewarded with power and praise for simply existing. How is anyone supposed to connect to a character like that?
Yeh I think it's why I prefer a lot of the female characters in anime with how they're written. A lot of them are insanely powerful and can be strongest in verse but the way they're written is really good. They have their flaws, a likeable personality (generally) or just have something to enjoy about them. They just feel more human and relatable. Even the ones that are a little bit of an asshole at the start will undergo change and become better people as the plot progresses. The story doesn't hold their hand and it certainly doesn't allow them to be right all the time. Like generally if they're talking down to other characters or belittling them it's at the start of their character arc and it's not their only personality trait. I mean I would take a Ryuko or Revy over anything Hollywood has to offer.
It shares the same problem that comes with trying to make an iconic character. If you create a great character then they can become iconic, but actually approaching character writing with the objective of trying to make an icon will typically fail because it generally ends up feeling forced. You focus so much on trying to give them traits that you think will make them iconic that you forget to write an actual character, and as a result the audience can't connect to them. You can't just manufacture an icon or a role model by just going down a checklist of famous surface-level things that they said or did.
Characters like Sarah Connor, or Katara, or Ahsoka aren't beloved icons of their fandoms because they can hit things really hard. They're held in such high regard because they're well written characters with their own significant flaws, who struggle to overcome adversity, who grow as people throughout their stories, and who hold their own among both allies and enemies who are consistently competent in their own right as opposed to only standing out by virtue of everyone around them becoming bumbling morons whenever the writer needs to make them look good.
Them tearing the male characters down and insulting them just proves what it's really about... spite.
Miss Andry.
The same with a king, the royalty doesn't need to remind their kingdom who is the boss, their actions, charisma and characteristics do it for them.
They don't even understand females, how females function or female nature. I loathe wokeism and how men, particularly straight white men, are having everything they've built stolen from them by entitled women, but, at the same time, there's so much unexplored terrain in film/TV regarding females.
There are entire genres that could be built around females and female nature, in the same way there are ones built around males, and male nature (ie the western, action films etc). Women are not men, and never will be. They don't function like men, they don't engage in conflict like men, they don't do evil like men, they don't do good like men, they don't express emotions like men, they have completely different qualities. Yet all these woke feminist creators are intent on ignoring these simple facts, and making all these female characters weird, masculine ideals of what they want to be.
The last interesting female character I saw on screen was the villain in Gone Girl. That was a female villain we'd never seen before, being villainous in typically female ways. Being manipulative, using her sexuality, sex and reproduction, false allegations, framing her boyfriend, playing the victim etc. It was interesting and new, but something that happens in reality every day.
I think you put it into words perfectly.
People have just been burned by Hollywood's nonsense so many times that the minute we see a female character, we automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion because we've been so conditioned to it.
I’m tired of blatant misandry in movies
The girl boss is a facade for misandry.
Me, too.
Not just in movies, in every area of society.
Even this video culminates in her blaming men, and not criticising women in any way.
Apparently, it's men's fault that men have handed over the industry they built to unqualified, woke, man-hating, entitled women.
The funny thing is most women actually want that - to find love and potentially start a family. But the girlboss narrative doesn't want to acknowledge that. Instead, women should want everything a man wants and strive to be just like a man. Make it make sense!? 😂
Speaking as a man who also wants a family. I think society saw people like Trump or elon musk and thought i want yhat i want sucess and riches and all that jazz. But took only the negative straights of men and forgot our actual positive traits
men want love and a family too. men are stuck with providing though, so men have to strive to be the best in the world
I was sick of it 20 years ago. It's always been ridiculous.
I absolutely agree with all of this. Totally spot on. It's a reason why I focus on older films more than new ones because they have such deep, meaningful, brilliantly written characters that we love and care for.
The funny thing is Eowin was a girl boss who found that what she wanted was love, and she found it. smh
Yep people forget that part of her story... she doesn't stay on the battlefield after her great victory. She was only on the battlefield because she felt she had nothing to live for. I personally dislike calling her a girlboss because her story could have easily turned out to be a tragedy. Hell it would have done if Merry hadn't helped her by stabbing the witch king and offering a distraction. She didn't beat the Witch king on her own, and she didn't speak down to Merry or the other men either. She wasn't the strongest either, the witch king probably would have won the fight if he hadn't been so cocky about the whole prophecy and Merry's assistance. This isn't to take the feat away from her as her scene is epic.
"Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her"
“I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,” she said; “and behold! the Shadow has departed! I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren”
People forget the change she goes through.
Doesn't she end up marrying Ferimir in the book? Uniting Rohan and Gondor?
@@GothLady1987 Yep and becomes a healer. She never takes to the battlefield again as far as I'm aware.
And she didn’t defy the societal rules for her own narcissism or entitlement, she did it to protect her family. Just like Mulan. They acted out of love, not hated. But, the shadow can only mock not create.
Ah she’s not a girl boss, she’s a strong woman. Back when that meant anything. Girl bosses are literal GIRLS bc they’re kinda dumb and don’t understand how the world works, but she’s the boss somehow. 🙄
Sorry if someone else already said it but I’m starting to think the most common trait in the Girl-Boss/ strong independent female/ marySue trope…
Is that they don’t have any real personal flaw to overcome. They’re all written as perfect and capable and there’s nothing wrong with them.
For example, Luke Skywalker is a great hero, he started off naive, reckless eager for excitement but yoda puts him in his place and learns the harsh reality of things with Vader’s revelation. He starts off as a simple farm boy to a Jedi master and savior of the galaxy.
He has relatable flaws, but the movie shows he’s also a good person and that’s what makes him likeable and we the audience, want him to ultimately succeed.
The problem is that Hollywood is a business and businesses don't see creativity as valuable. They don't look for new ideas, they look for trends. Hollywood looks for safe investments and then they jump on the bandwagon until we are all pulling our hair out and screaming for change. Hollywood will take tropes that are popular and run them into the ground long past the point we are all sick of them and then they will hop on the next one and we will be saying the same thing in another 10 years. Hollywood and entertainment media doesn't have an obligation to be creative or original, they have an obligation to the shareholders to make money. That's all.
You have internalized common sense, which is a very healthy thing to have.
I think one reason the girlboss character is boring is that she is just magically great at everything. She doesn't have to go through any sort of struggle to get there. She doesn't rise from puny and weak to become strong. She just *is* strong from the beginning. No struggle, no character arc, no character development, no real weaknesses or shortcomings. That makes for a very boring and unrelatable character.
You nailed it. Why would anyone care about a girlboss when we all know she's going to figure it out, she's going to come out on top, she's going to upstage all the men, and as such she's never in any real danger?
If you’re gonna make a character like that at least make them Darth Vader in the end.
Its not even that. Its the lack of real character flaws. A mc can be overpowered in regards to strength. For example Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai is ridiculously overpowered. But she also has clear flaws that make her a compelling character despite how powerful she is. The main difference is that Mizu is well written. Most of these modern girl boss characters aren't.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u Alita is the same way. OP but also flawed and/or she has emotional turmoil. It gets explored in the film and OVA for most audiences, or throughout the Battle Angel manga. This sounds like the Rey crap all over again.
Yeah they're called Mary Sues.
When encountering this trope, I always think of the show "Slings & Arrows," where Darren Nichols (the show's avatar of everything wrong with modern theatre) is directing "Romeo & Juliet." He wants the cast to deliver their lines flatly and without emotion, and when the actress playing Juliet objects because the characters are in love, he says "They're not in love; they are signifiers." That's how this modern "strong woman" archetype feels: they are symbols in an intellectual treatise on the subject of modern feminism, rather than being actual characters with life of their own.
We went from " I am NO man " to " I need NO man ".😒
"I am the man"
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp I am the X-man.
I am iron man
@@terryrocks2j I remember when a character in a X-Men movie said, "the women do everything in this team it should be 'X-Women'" it was made the people in the theater silent
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp "I'm 'The Guy'."
Strengths are not what defines good characters, it’s their weaknesses
Welcome to our world. We've been living with it since ever and it's good to have you aboard.
Also, calling girlbosses "wooden planks" are an insult to wooden planks. A wooden plank has much more personality than 100 girlbosses combined.
Each wooden plank is truly unique.
Wooden planks sometimes give you splinters. They can be spicy when treated badly, but they can lose that edge and become welcoming.
I can find more uses for a plank of wood than girlbosses
Especially Plank from Ed Edd and Eddie
At 1:50 this literally happened in that movie with Jennifer Lopez and the robot. The black guy, before his death scene, says the EXACT same thing. This also happened in the movie Prey; Naru's brother, just before his death scene, tells her that she was right all along. That's the new thing no in these films -- that the women were right all along, and the guys were wrong for doubting them, and that if the guys had just listened to the women, maybe they wouldn't have died. It's becoming tiring already.
Oh, thats been happening loong before present day. I first noticed it waay back 2009 with the cloudy with a chance of meatballs.
This is sadly not a new thing, we just weren't as sensitized to it back then
Validation
Totally agree, but Prey was really good though and didn’t feel like Naru was a Mary Sue, she did fail numerous times and had to overcome obstacles
@@JennySparkz It is not necesseraly wrong writing, specialy in cloudy with a chance of meatballs were part of Flins character arc is to lern to not be stuck in his fame.
It just becomes lazy and boring when it happen every movie.
This is one of the things that annoys me about Korra in Legend of Korra, ESPECIALLY in S1 (and part of S2). This doesn't involve a death scene, but if Korra EVER sees something one way and the other characters see things differently, Korra is ALWAYS right. And it's not because she's particularly perceptive or thoughtful or has good instincts; she's generally the opposite--brash, hot-tempered, and emotional. And still, she's always right if there's two possible viewpoints.
Conversely, because she's she's brash and hot-tempered, she makes several mistakes in her ACTIONS (not the same). She'll rashly act and make a situation worse or cause it to unravel (you can see how this conflicts with her ALWAYS making correct perceptions/observations). But in all of S1 (please fact-check me if you find an exception), she NEVER says the phrase, "I'm sorry." And yet, the person she's "apologizing" to ends up saying THEY'RE sorry. It's really weird and off-putting (to me).
its pretty simple the world is ending slowly and they are destroying the movies and tv shows that we love first
it's true - and the storytellers of our time will be the ones to answer for our decline.
Girlboss trope is everywhere now. Pratically all major videogames now have a girlboss now too. It's sickening.
And is it then any coincidence that the gaming market is burning down as we speak?
Nope.
Not a coincidence at all.
A commentary that's both passionate AND well-reasoned! Thanks for sharing it!
YOU GO, JESTER!!!
Mad as he'll and you're not gonna take it anymore!!
You can have a female character that wants to get married in Hollywood. It just needs to be with another woman.
Hollywood is so gay
Lol, I just watched Netflix Tomb Raider and Arcane Season 2. Sure seems to be the case
@@robchuk4136 yup
...lol I was just about to say that. Almost all the stories now about women "deeply" in love, it's always with another woman, like The World To Come, or Am I Okay, or Korra, or Horizon, or The Last of Us, or Lionness, or ARK, or Tomb Raider, or Portrait of a Lady on Fire, or She-Ra, or Everything Everywhere All At Once, or Disenchantment, or Invasion, or Agatha All The Time, or Arcane.
@@Billy-bc8pk and they say lesbians don't get representation
All those 12 yr old Wattpad writers are now in their 20s getting jobs as writers, that’s what’s happening.
What makes a good character? Flaws and being imperfect. Men characters can be complex and flawed but women characters have to be perfect, simple and flawless. We can’t relate to that because… everyone has flaws and that’s how we can relate to characters. We want complex motivations!
honestly i think bekng perfect is both a symptom and not the core problem with girl bosses
I've actually always thought that Girlbossing started with Frozen. Love it or hate it, Frozen had an amazing marketing campaign that convinced audiences the movie was so fresh and so original because it *didn't* have a traditional Disney romance story. (Never mind that Brave just came out one year before, but I digress.) As soon as Elsa uttered "Anna, you can't marry a man you just met" and everyone cheered, the stage was set for the next decade and change of Girlboss movies.
That's why I hate Frozen with passion.
I have to agree with you. Online there were so many memes that had that snippet of Elsa saying that phrase, it was so annoying.
I think that as well and I hate Frozen for that. And I especially hate that they took a beautiful love story like Tangled and then completely ruined it in that stupid TV show to make it more modern or more like Frozen. Tangled has always been one of my favorite Disney movies, and I absolutely adore the love story of Rapunzel and Flynn. However, there’s something I absolutely cannot stand: the Tangled TV series. It ruined everything for me, and if I have to consider the series as canon, it would completely destroy my love for the original film.
It’s honestly painful how they trashed Flynn’s character and their entire relationship just to cater to some misguided notion of modern feminism and “progressive” ideals. They’ve turned Flynn into a bumbling fool, completely ruining the clever, charming, and smart character he was in the original movie. And worse yet, they’ve stripped Rapunzel of her independence and made her doubt the very love she so clearly shared with Flynn in the film.
What infuriates me the most is how the series portrayed the idea of rejecting a marriage proposal and then staying together as if that was somehow a healthy or sensible thing to do. In the time period this story is set, marriage wasn’t just about a wedding ceremony-it was about being together, about having a future, about building a life with someone. Back then, people married young because it was often the only way they could truly be together. Flynn’s proposal in the movie wasn’t rushed-it was a natural progression of their deep love for each other, especially given the era they lived in.
But in the series, the message is clear: marriage is a prison-even if you love someone deeply, even if you’ve been together for months or a year. This is a terrible message, and it’s absurd. If you love someone, you want to marry them. You don’t reject them because you feel like it will strip you of your freedom. That’s a red flag that implies you don’t actually see a future with them. Marriage isn’t a trap-it’s a symbol of commitment and love. If someone considers marriage to be a prison, they’re subconsciously thinking about cheating or breaking up. And that’s not love!
The historical inaccuracy is also glaring. Back in the time period this story is set in, marriage was the way for two people to be together. There was no “waiting for a few years to decide” because society didn’t allow that. No one could just live together as a couple back then, especially if you were a princess. The idea that Rapunzel and Flynn should have waited years to get married is ridiculous. If anything, they should have been portrayed as a couple eager to get married as soon as possible because that’s what would have made sense for their time.
And don’t get me started on how the series turned Rapunzel into a fighting, modern-day “Mary Sue” girlboss character. In the original fairy tale, Rapunzel was already empowered-she made decisions for herself, let the prince into her tower, and plotted her own escape. The only thing that’s different in the series is that they’ve amped up her physical strength to make her more “modern” and “feminist,” as if it wasn’t already clear from the original that she was no damsel in distress. This change in her character feels unnecessary and forced, and it completely undermines the beauty of the original tale, Petrosinella, where her love for the prince was a true source of freedom, not a burden.
To add to my frustration, I despise how they twisted the whole narrative to fit a “modern feminist” agenda. The original Rapunzel (or Petrosinella, as it’s known in Basile’s version) is a beautiful love story, and Disney’s series ruined that. Rapunzel was a girl in an oppressive situation who found freedom and love in the prince, which was an empowering message. She wasn’t just waiting for a man, she was waiting for a future and a life outside the tower-and a marriage to a prince was the way to escape. That was reality for women at the time. So why is that seen as a problem now?
And don’t even get me started on how they made Flynn look. In the series, he’s turned into a completely different character-dumbed down, less charming, and just… wrong. He’s not the clever rogue who stole Rapunzel’s heart in the movie. He’s a different person altogether, and I refuse to believe he’s the same guy. It’s honestly insulting to the character development we saw in Tangled.
At the end of the day, I refuse to count the series as canon. It’s not. The original movie is still my canon, and I firmly believe the writers of the original film intended for Rapunzel and Flynn’s story to end right after the movie, with their love continuing in the short film Tangled Ever After. If the series had never happened, their love story would have been perfect, and I could have continued to enjoy the magic of the movie without this unnecessary and frustrating complication.
The series just isn’t believable. It doesn’t fit with the tone of the original movie. And it absolutely doesn’t fit with the world that the Brothers Grimm or Basile created. If the writers of the fairy tales saw how the original story was meant to be interpreted, they would be spinning in their graves.
So, for my sanity’s sake, I’ll continue to treat the TV series as non-canon. I’ll take my happily-ever-after with Flynn and Rapunzel from the movie and ignore the disaster that came afterward. Disney really missed the mark here, and I just can’t forgive them for ruining such a beautiful love story. And I think it's all because of Frozen. Because Frozen made more money and was more popular. That's why I hate frozen now.
@@WalkingJellyfish Frozen is also a terrible adaptation of the Snow Queen.
@@orangeslash1667 How? It doesn't even have the same name.
We need more women standing up against the girlboss nonsense like this. Make your voices heard! 👏
The problem I see in these "strong women" characters is that they tend to ignore the things that make a woman a woman, as if those things are the weakness. Women have a strength all of there own. She can be "strong" and still be feminine. They think that these women can't ever struggle or be bad at something or need help. It's those things that make a good character, it's all about the struggle. As a writer you need to spend time really watching people, learning them. I keep a little book and I write things down. People are complex and are never more than one thing. She can be a mother and a worrier, and if you can't write that character you need to spend more time learning people.
I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that they keep making the same trash over and over and it keeps bombing and they just keep going. It’s like a nasty restaurant no one goes too staying open despite never selling any food.
Just remember folks: the subversion was in LOTR long ago.
Gandalf got his butt kicked by Witchking in the extended cut (which didn't happen in the book) and Theoden charged into a heard of raging Oliphants like an idiot (also not in the book) for no other reason than to make those characters weaker.
Woke crept in before it had a name.
Seeing the movie made me just want to work on an actual likable female character just out of spite.
I'm feeling the catharsis from your rant, I love this.
Young women: “I am woman, hear me roar!”
Young men: “I am man, hear me snore” 😀
You left out the part about the young man pointing at the ceiling... with his middle finger.
I always love action movies where 5'5" 110lb women beat the crap out of scores of 6'4" 240lb muscled dudes. It's so real.
Mastersamwise made some AMAZING videos on this topic "Audiences hate BAD WRITING not strong women"
We are sick and tired of the terrible writing to push narratives that ppl are uninterested in.
Actually, the tolkien estate has said that nobody is allowed to adapt the story of Baron and luthien, specifically because they don't want it tarnished
Probably for the best, especially since we probably aren’t going to see anyone with any sense of integrity, intelligence, humility, or respect for the source material for a long time.
There is no balance & diversity in film anymore. Everything is extreme.
And nuance that enriches the character. Even Ripley, the badass that she was, had a moment with Hicks.
@@continentaldrift2170 it's like some writers are afraid of embracing femininity.
Shit writers
THIS. EXACTLY
as a woman I say AMEN! I completely agree!
We are all sick and tired of it. When women hate this trope, it is time to place it on the ashbin of history. Great rant. It is nice to hear this concern from women who are just as sickened by all of this as men.
When did it become a thing that you can either be a super tough warrior or you can fall in love? Why can’t she do both? What’s wrong with that?
Exactly. Women generally want relationships.
You know who else does?
Men.
We can struggle through the world and love too. That's how it's supposed to be.
There are those of us who are trying to write genuinely good female characters. The only way this trend will change is if those works get more support.
The zeitgeist will make sure that does not happen. You will be shortchanged of support or recognition via suppression. This has been happening a lot for the past 15 years.
When it comes to millionaire projects, it's nepo babies failing upwards, but there's plenty of fun female leads in literature who are kind, classically feminine, and find happiness in a relationship, written by and for women. Shocker, amirite
@@Billy-bc8pk See, if you're going to assume that the game is lost without even moving a single piece, then yes, failure is the only option.
Let us not forget, however, that everything popular today was new and unproven at some point in the past. How did they become so popular? Because people supported them to the point where they became the zeitgeist.
For my own part, I'd rather contribute to changing things than just roll over and give up. You can admit defeat if you want to, but I'm going to persevere.
@@maf7742 The "nepo babies" will have their time, but they won't last forever. the tides are turning, and once the heads of the system remember that they need quality work to make money, they'll have to look for it somewhere. Then you'll see a truly significant shift.
@@omniviewer2115 If you're an optimist, then yes, you are wholly correct. Some of us are a little too jaded and pessimistic due to current trends to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But, for a prosperous society, many have to hope that you are correct.
This rant is perfectly valid. It literally blows my mind how tone deaf Hollywood is as an industry.
I guess they just give out those jobs to anyone nowadays, as long as they sign the contract saying that they have to mainly work as an activist to further their agenda.
Olivia de Havilland's Maid Marion from The Adventures of Robin Hood still blows me away and that was from 1938! It's shocking but I've found a lot of dynamic female characters in older movies, so it's clearly very possible to do and should be easier than ever before, and yet...
The hubris of postmodernists in a nutshell. They think no one who came before them had the same concerns or faced the same problems that they think they’re facing.
This is so on point. I discovered that there are so many B movies from the fifties that have strong female characters! The characters are kick ass, usually by being smart or able to take charge, and to be clear, not better than the men, just equally capable. And yeah, in the course of the story, sometimes she and the male lead find love. It all makes sense and doesn't feel at all contrived. Anyway, I just wanted to second your point! Cheers.
Too true
- Katie Holstrom from "The Farmer's Daughter" (the 1946 version)
- Eliza Doolittle from "My Fair Lady"
- Mother Robinson from Disney's "Swiss Family Robinson"
- Mammy from "Gone With the Wind"
- Dorothy Gale from "The Wizard of Oz"
- Even Ann Darrow from "King Kong" (the 1933 version )
All relatable female characters.
Not to mention characters in famous books (by Jane Austen, Elizabeth Gaskell, George Elliot, the Bronte sisters, Lucy Montgomery ) that were adapted into film and television.
Ah, yes, classic movie heroines.
Charlotte Vale in "Now, Voyager."
Paula/Margaret in "Random Harvest."
Francie Nolan in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn."
Emma Hamilton in "That Hamilton Woman."
Henriette Deluzy in "All This and Heaven Too."
Jean and Terry in "Stage Door."
Helen in "The Day the Earth Stood Still."
Annie Sullivan in "The Miracle Worker."
Babe Bennett in "Mr. Deeds Goes to Town."
And since 'tis the season, let's talk about Mary Bailey for a minute. "It's a Wonderful Life" gets accused of sexism because of the depiction of Mary's fate in Pottersville, but what gets forgotten is that after George runs out of the house after having blown up at his kids, Mary goes straight to the telephone to put a plan in motion to save him. She doesn't rely on prayer, although she does instruct the kids to pray. Neither does she wait for someone else to solve the problem. She immediately contacts Uncle Billy, and the two of them start collecting money. Also of note is that prior to this scene, the last time we saw Uncle Billy, he was a broken, helpless man, but when Mary enlists his help, she gives him a shot at redemption, so that when we see him at the end, he's his old, jovial self. Her actions save TWO men.
@@kelleyceccato7025movies from the 30s and 40s had really great female characters
Are you ready to admit that modern feminism is ruining fiction?
It's not even "modern feminism", it's just feminism, which is a tool to manipulate, control, and enslave women; while declaring liberation. 1880s feminism, 1920s feminism, and 1960s feminism would do the same thing if they got into positions of power.
I am currently writing a romantasy, with a spludge of war in it. And it is interesting to see the balance in the FMC between the caring, warm, motherly side. And the "do what needs to be done" side the war requires of her. Making her, a balanced, complex and realistic character. And she doubts herself a lot too.
And before you ask, yes she has power...
And a lot of others have expectations of her. And her choices matter. So... very complex.
Your story sounds promising already and I wish you the best of luck with it.
What’s sad, is that this is an improvement over amazon’s wheel of time, and Rings of Power
How funny is that the male action characters in the 80s had more development and reason to be the one man army trope they were. "He was 20 years in the army, 10 of them as green beret/seal team 6. ", "He is a badass cop 15 years on the job", " He trained 12 years as shaolin monk". Now its 20 something skinny girls kicking ass and taking names from the day she is 15 lmao.
Greatness from childhood is such a weirdly specific detail about this trope, lol. They even did it to Mulan in the remake
@@robchuk4136Also Legend of Korra.
@@robchuk4136 and reconnect it into wonder woman for the sequel
@robchuk4136 Gifted Child Syndrome
Mary-Sues and Gary-Stues are never compelling in a dramatic narrative
I've been sick of this shit since 2013. You all are late but I'm happy people finally agree and see what I see.
I clicked on this video so fast. I feel the same way. And have for so many years.
Jester Bell: I would like to see a female character whose only motivation is “I want to get married and find true love.
Me: let me introduce you to Mitsuri Kanroji from demon slayer
A big reason anime and manga are killing western entertainment
Your girl boss is a "Mary Sue".
Thank you for saying this!! I completely agree with everything you said! I’m so tired of these characters. I want interesting and nuanced female characters back again. I love Arcane for this exact reason.
Would you consider discussing the creative betrayal of existing characters as well? For instance, when directors take pre-existing characters and completely alter their personalities to fit a new narrative, like Lara Croft, and yes Snow White, and others. I find it incredibly offensive , especially for the women who genuinely liked those characters. When they try to “fix” them, it feels like they’re implying that all those women were somehow wrong or misogynistic for enjoying those stories as they were.
I’d love to hear your take on this. You already hinted at it with the Snow White movie, but I think a full video exploring Lara Croft and similar characters who’ve been altered beyond recognition would be really interesting.
I would like to see that too. The characters that come to mind for me are Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (and the way they felt it was necessary to undermine his relationship with Princess Leia because of their son Ben / Kylo Ren's going to The Dark Side... I mean, they still could have written Kylo Ren the same way, without it causing a rift between his parents; in fact, they could have written it so that Han & Leia were still together, without them undermining Han by having Leia upset with him... Why, why would she hold that against him; it's totally uncharacteristic of her AND speaking of unrealistic changes in the continuity of a character... Luke Skywalker was all about hope... He was what the title "A New Hope" was eluding to. He kept going, determined to do the right thing and he saved his father / Vader. Only for Disney to rewrite him as a quitter and a hermit who had abandoned his friends / family because his nephew turned to The Dark Side?! ...They did not need to undermine his character to build Rey up as the hero. They could have made her the hero and still left the original characters intact. It seemed spiteful to me.
True heroes don't need to belittle others to be great; even if she didn't do it directly... They were deminished to make her appear even greater in contrast to their failures.
Seems small minded and petty to me, not to mention lazy writing.
Seeing a female bash about female bosses is row gold 😂
I think the main issue is there seems to be some kind of rules Hollywood writers are required to follow. It is not just women, no minority is allowed to be portrayed as bad in any way, being emotional is bad, so they have to be stoic, having flaws is bad so they cannot have those, feminism says straight relationships is bad so you cannot that. Due to the rules they follow, only straight white men are allowed to be interesting characters, but they also need to follow a rule that such characters must be rarely on screen in order to lift up women and minorities even though those characters are written poorly due to the rules they follow.
The whole problem is the perceived 'victim hierarchy' of modern progressive thinking is just crippling when it comes to storytelling. When you start creating these artificial barriers then you instantly start limiting yourself in regards to what you can do with the characters.
I'm so happy I'm not the only crazy person who feels like this. Hollywood really doesn't know how to write a strong women character right anymore.
I will recommend if you want good women characters in a film or show, I recommend blue eye samurai, arcane and shogun. Now those three were perfect, the women in them are strong in their own way and have flaws like a normal human.
If Eowyn was written today she'd be the best warrior ever, she would give fighting lessons to aragorn and command the armies better than any man.
Funny thing is that Eowyn's ambitions are exactly why Aragorn chose Arwen over her. Not because he doesn't like warrior women, but because Arwen and Eowyn had different views on duty.
Eowyn ignored her duty to her people simply because she wanted to prove she was badass. But Arwen was patient and accepted the role she had to play for the good of Middle-Earth.
The books made it clear that Eowyn is a noble woman and her heart was in the right place, but she had a lot of maturing to do. And that is why Aragorn chose Arwen over her.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Don't think Eowyn wanted to prove she's badass. She wished to fight for her king. Similar things happen in real life sometimes, for example Milunka Savic, Serbian female soldier and officially the most decorated female soldier in history. Look her up.
She would give fighting lessons to Sauron and call him, Sau-Wrong.
She would be like that in the movies too if people didn't keep Philippa's mires in check. That was one of her proposals that were shut down
@@vetarlittorf1807 I'm pretty sure Aragorn chose Arwen over Eowyn because he loved her and had already pledged to marry her. Don't think there's anything more to read into that, tbh.
"She's not looking for true love! She just wants to be the leader she knows she can be"... *snore*
I'd be fine with, "I don't intend to get married right now, but I'm open to the idea if I meet the right man."
thats a good point
You know things are bad when even reasonable "normies" like JesterBell can't take any more. We are all done with this.
Just found Jester and she's already speaking to my soul.
what's sad is us writers who still write good stories don't get a chance, because our work does not have any woke crap in it.
Girl boss message: You can be anything! As long as it’s perfect with no personality.
And single!
Your rant was great. You clearly care about this a lot and I felt it. :D
Flawless strong characters are characterless products of bad writing. Good characters have relatable vulnerabilities and flaws
So true. This has gotten way out of hand, and many times the girl boss has all the traits of toxic masculinity that all of us fantasy fans don’t like.
I’m subbing
For a long 10 years we have had some of the most insufferable girl bosses in cinema created. Can’t we have likeable female characters again in our movies, it’s not that hard
Well, what more needs to be said? We've been decrying this from the start, and have been ignored for a literal decade. Because we don't matter. It won't change until the mainstream articles start calling it out. Because that's who these creatives are trying to impress. Them and a small but loud group on social media. It's funny which vocal minorities matter, and which vocal minorities don't.
Don't you know? They don't exist to be liked by you... or anyone else.
The women running these shows can’t write women either it’s not just the men.
The idea that executives who were covering up for Harvey Weinstein & similar men are now trying to make up for it by making "girl power" movies never occurred to me but it makes so much sense.
It's not even a good way to apologize and yet they still fail at it.
Strong and independent woman girl boss until it’s time to pay the bill.
A movie with a brave prince saving a vulnerable princess from a dragon or something super traditional like that would be shocking today...and it would sell like gangbusters
Four words: 50 Shades of Gray.
Honestly, I've had it up to here with this trope since Frozen came out ten years ago. I was in denial at the time of what it was doing, but with everyone twisting every little detail in that film, it finally reached a boiling point. I'm going back to literature, even to its infancy.
At least Frozen did the trope as a means to poke fun at the whole Disney Princess falling in love with the first man they meet stereotype.
When was the last time we saw a genuine romance film. Not rom-com. Not romantic sub plots in a bigger action adventure film. Pure noir inspired romance... I miss love 😢
Portraying women characters as one-note is sexist in itself. Give women their full humanity whether "good" or "bad."
Just discovered this channel… immediately subscribed. Good video 🫡
So happy to hear a woman articulate this, thank you 🙏
I thought I was the only one wanting it to be over. The scene with the king that you mention I did get up to get out there but I forgot I paid for it on IMAX and force by myself to finish it. This movie has a bad script but the worst part is when they kill (a character, won't spoil it) everyone stands there not thinking to kill them with the archers or maybe go down there and end it, there are two of them just finish it guys, that for me was the part that the film lost me completely. This movie is a bad cash grab lazy story made specifically to retain the rights to the movies, also the girl boss is very bad in this movie full force in your face.
And when Hera isn't around, people should talk to each other asking, "Where is Hera?"
Is it because they don't know how to write female characters, or is it because they don't know how to write?
The way everyone describes this movie it sounds like they took a Tolkien story and twisted it until it was basically Disney's Brave, but worse.
Way fucking worse 🤣
That was exactly what I thought while watching it. This is just Brave with a weaker version of Merida.
I had a feeling that movie was going to take the 'independent woman' and 'girl boss' route, so I chose to avoid it altogether. Over the past few years, I’ve become cautious about movies with female leads because of the direction many of them are taking. One of my all-time favorite films is *Ever After*, inspired by the story of Cinderella. Danielle, played by Drew Barrymore, was such a beautifully crafted character. She didn’t rely on wielding a sword or showcasing physical strength to shine. Instead, she led with humility, grace, wisdom, kindness, and love. Her servant’s heart was her true strength, and that’s what made her character truly magnificent. Sadly, female characters with that kind of depth and quiet strength are rarely created anymore.
Me and my sister are done with this girl boss crap.
You've had it? We fellas had had it like 10 years ago where men can never stand up to or out say or anything over a woman! I used to sit there and say, "Why isn't he answering her back? She's clearly wrong?" Glad even the women are seeing it now.
Felicity from Arrow just reared her head in my memory reading this comment lol