And ironic, most of them are made to criticise the movie, and other side are defending it, and other that are shilling for such, TLJ was bad, I found out about that after seeing it and when my honeymoon phase faded away until I realise how bad it is, so yeah
@@jaieregilmore971Not necessarily. While Luke was trained by Jedi, he found it in himself to redeem his father while Yoda and Obi-wan just wanted b to become a weapon to kill Vader and the Emperor.
@@tesslichtman7302 Can we honestly blame them? Vader and The emperor are literally the worst people in the galaxy that deserves death overall Luke didn’t listen to them to kill Vader and show compassion is a Jedi greatest strength.
Guys. The thing is. And I wrote this YEARS AGO. SO BEAR WITH ME LOL “Why I hate TLJ so much. It isn’t trash, but on many fundamental levels this movie just doesn’t emotionally resonate with a lot longtime fans of the franchise. Or me. Obviously it had the box office cash so that’s the only resonation that matters to Disney. I don’t have the patience to watch it again. Ever. Fans, especially the super hardcore expanded universe fans, need to realize this is another generations stars wars trilogy. And that’s fine if that’s what it’s become. Just hard to let go of I guess and whether if you can put it out of your mind the 30 years of lore that made Luke Skywalker into the badass that Star Wars made him out to be instead of the Disney Star Wars version of wolverine in Logan. It literally fills me with anger the more I think about the last Jedi. Or what I now refer to as the original trilogy wheel of death. They think that killing people off creates more dramatic weight, but in actuality it’s just pissing people off and doing the characters a disservice. And just to be clear, Luke, the real Luke, which is what makes luke skywalker so goddamn lovable, is that he believes that Anyone can be redeemed. Even Vader. Who of course wiped out the Jedi, murdered children, and literally helped blow up a fucking planet. Amongst a billions over travesties committed. And he still believed Vader was worthy saving. But no. Luke gets one bad vision of his sisters kid and is like, ‘I’m going take him out?’ Horseshit. And shitty writing by people who do not understand or ever cared to understand these characters beyond their own limited vision. “
@@darthsmallville just a few corrections. It IS trash, and it's not a new generations Star Wars. It's just Disney's bastardization. The new generation could have gotten something on the levels of Kotor or the Thrawn Trilogy. But no. They got the God awful Sequel trilogy. I feel sorry for them that they think the sequel trilogy is so good. They need to read more.
At 48 years old, one thing that I have come to accept is that all things end. Your movie franchise will end or fade. Your favorite band will break up or carry on into embarrassing, piss-dribbling old age. Your favorite creator will quit or die. All things end. What keeps me happy and grounded is two things. 1) Appreciate what we had and the joy it brought us and can still bring us now. 2) Great new things don't come around often, but when they do, live in that moment and enjoy it to the fullest.
@@danielcharland1374 Indeed. I think what makes now different is that so much of what I described is happening in rapid fire succession. It's forcing people to learn that lesson a lot younger than they normally would have. On a related note, RIP Akira Toriyama.
Darth Vader: ( Murdered many innocent people and tortured Han Solo and Leia ). Luke: There is still good in him. Kylo Ren: ( Had a bad dream ). Luke: Oh, Hell No! He must die!
Reductive. We have no idea what sort of horrible thoughts Luke saw when he read Ben's mind. I assume it was horrific mass violence that made Luke's defensive instincts kick in. I don't think that plot point was conveyed very well, but people act like Luke *actually tried* to kill Ben in his sleep (instead of standing there with his lightsaber and instantly regreting it), which is more of a character assassination than the actual events of in the movie, ironically. Leave it to the fans.
@@RacingSnails64 1) whats more mass than blowing up a planet with the intention of blowing up more? At that point, Kylo hadn't done anything yet. 2) The act of drawing his light saber as a knee-jerk reaction was stupid for someone like Luke. It did not fit his character at all. This is his innocent nephew who he is watching over. Why the hell would he even have the thought to kill him before even speaking to him once. Epic fail writing and epic fail defending. A bullshit "moment of weakness" is still bullshit.
@@RacingSnails64Luke would never stand over a defenseless person with a deadly weapon, period. It doesn’t matter how regretful he was afterwards. So what if Kylo Ren had thoughts of mass violence? His father literally committed planet wide genocide and Luke was still capable of calming down and putting his lightsaber down. You’re telling me that an older version of this character somehow loses his ability to keep composure just because his nephew had edgy thoughts?
"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to". Well, you got what you wanted, Disney. I hope getting that new audience, that "modern" one that I've heard so much about, was worth it.
"Mean spirited." You said it perfect. I saw the TLJ with a close friend from high school. He had just moved back to our hometown after a decade being away. We had one hell of a night planned. We did dinner, the bar, then walked to this amazing new theater for the movie. And two and a half hours later, we walked out taken aback. We are two guys who probably don't look like the stereotypical nerds. The bartender that night was listening to us talking before the movie, and giggled and said something to the effect of, "you two come in looking like gym bros, and open your mouth only to have Magic the Gathering fall out! It's really adorable!" But we were going in that night with some high hopes. We both more or less enjoyed the Force Awakens, but even then we were confused by Rey seeming like she was more like a plot device and not really a person... like, she had a shallow personality, and was too good at everything without really any reason why... we both did NOT like when she was showing up Han on the Falcon, but let it slide because... well... obviously she's Luke's granddaughter or relation! Duh! Also... "wasn't that basically a rehash of like, A New Hope?" But hey, Star Wars was back! And we both loved Rogue One! There must be a DAMN good reason Luke was willing to toss his lightsaber! Maybe it was a fake! Or there was a tracker... or maybe it was something else! It was a cliffhanger we needed to know about! So whatever, no story is perfect... and we planned an amazing Friday on the town and then TLJ! Yeah... we were looking at each other through the movie. Our faces saying the same thing without the need of words. "What the fuck?!" Like, what the hell was happening?! Did the writers for this not watch the first movie?? Why does it feel like they are trying to assassinate Luke as a Jedi AND as just a regular human being?! It wasn't hidden. It was screaming in our faces that our childhood hero (he and I were both team Luke all the way, but were still really sad at what they did to Han, which in hindsight, we talked after the movie, seemed to be a theme the new movies were on about) was a washed up bitter failure of a man. Han had become a smuggler or whatever again... the rebellion was back for no apparent reason, and then we were being scolded and lectured about war profiteering and other real world nonsense that we didn't sign up for. "Let the past die???" Yeah, no. You are deliberately murdering the past to try to replace it with your shabby, mean-spirited, shallow, poorly-written and even poorer executed husks of new characters. I happen to love Laura Dern. So why did they call her an admiral and then dress her in an ugly prom dress with purple hair?? Why was she being one of the worst types of leaders imaginable?! Why didn't they just see if Admiral Dolores Umbridge was free and use her, if we're supposed to despise this new character! Why did you kill cute A-wing pilot girl?? Since when do star ships need a gas station?? The holdo manuever?!?!? Did anyone stop to think what that does to the established rules of the story?!! Why does it feel like this whole movie was created as a giant MIDDLE FINGER to people like my friend and I?! Because that's exactly what it was made for. It was actually made to spit in the face of people like my friends and I, who have enjoyed Star Wars since we were kindergartners in the late 80's. While we thought the prequels definitely had some flaws, they still felt Star Warsy to us, and let us wax poetic about Star Wars Pod Racing, when we were hanging out late at night. The prequels told us as fans, that they still knew us and what we enjoyed, and while it may not have always landed, they were still trying to give us what they knew we wanted. TLJ told us that we were wrong. About Luke. About Yoda. About Han. About Leia. It told us that our time was thankfully over, and that we could stay if we wanted, but were not really welcome. TLJ told us that the space opera was over, and now that this "Rian Johnson" was writing the story, he was going to use SW as a PLATFORM to scold us about things we have zero control over, but that are very definitely a part of our own world. To hell with immersion! This round headed little white fellow had a MESSAGE that we were going to PAY to hear, and if we didn't like it, we just must be misogynists, bigots, slave-owners, and war profiteers... apparently... It was on the border of passive aggression and regular old aggression, and it felt MEAN-SPIRITED! I'm sorry for making such a rambling accounting of my experience back then! But hearing "mean-spirited" touched the still sore wound that TLJ left in me, my friends, both male and female, and my sister. We were all looking forward to the era of Disney Star Wars because we thought we'd get to finally see amazing expanded universe content, and would finally get to meet Mara Jade, Jedi Master Luke, Jaina, and the Solo/ Skywalker kids, Grand Admiral Thrawn (pity they never used that amazing and deep character in any of the new stuff! He woulda made such a fantastic addition, and maybe would even bring some of us back into the fold! ...shame they chose to forget he exists and never ever used him. Not once...), and all the rest. "Disney has more money than God! And we're absolutely gonna start getting the BEST STORIES! They even put the woman who was there the whole way, and that Lucas vouches for! This is gonna be AMAZING!!" We had that conversation. I remember it. I remember being in a group of maybe eight of us, men and women, who were seriously excited for Disney shelling out the cash to buy the whole of Lucas Film's IPs... Okay... I made myself feel sad, now. I'll be going... If you made it this far, I'm really sorry you're having such a slow night =-(
Yeah when I saw Holdo I felt like I wasn’t supposed to like her but then Leia just supports her. The Holdo maneuver is a complete ripoff of Star Trek’s famous Picard Maneuver which was stolen. Kylo REN sucks and is even worse than Rick Moranis being Dark Helmet.
Man. "It told us that our time was thankfully over, and that we could stay if we wanted, but were not really welcome." Boy, I felt this exactly. So many choices in that movie felt deliberately antagonistic. I left the theatre angry. Not disappointed or apathetic... angry. Yes, it's just media entertainment, it's a waste of emotional energy. But I *did* care about the Star Wars mythology, and it seemed like I was being mocked by the very thing that I enjoy. Still makes me mad, it felt so deeply personal for some reason. By the way, they did use Thrawn in the Ahsoka show. I didn't watch it, but I hear that it went as poorly as you might expect.
Sir, I respect your ramble so I offer you my own: I guess in hindsight, The Last Jedi brought my life into balance in a sense. Way back in the early 2000s, I saw The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring on opening night at midnight. The next day, a coworker regretted not seeing it and convinced me to see it with him at 8PM, so I saw that film twice on opening day. I had tickets to see The Last Jedi and was out with some friends before they went to see it, but my showing was the next day. They looked and there was still seating available to see it with them, so I agreed. I saw it twice on opening day. The second time, I wasn't sure I wanted to, but thought maybe a second showing and chewing on it would warm me to it or there were aspects I overlooked that had more meaning. Alas, no. The only two films in my life I've seen twice in a 24 hour period in theaters. The Fellowship of the Ring offering the light and The Last Jedi offering the dark. Suppose the Force is balanced in a way.... What kills me how they could have worked better with small changes. Overall, I would have had Finn be the Storm Trooper turned Jedi, Rey the scrappy scavenger turned rogue pilot, and Poe the military pilot that butts heads with Rey but can more easily navigate the bureaucracy of government (essentially filling Luke, Han, and Leia's archetypal roles), but I'm not talking a full rewrite of the whole thing here: Force Awakens? Instead of Han being a broken old man who left his wife because he couldn't deal with everything so he went back to smuggling, make him taking on the risky, underbelly missions for the "Resistance" (they should have scrapped that nonsense btw) on the outer rim territories, hoping he'll pick up some info that would lead to a chance to try and reach his son. Nothing in the film would change except Han & Leia didn't split up, they're bearing the sadness of being apart in hopes of reaching their son. On the Falcon, Finn should have been the one to figure out how to fix it, not Rey. Give him some dialogue about how he's seen something similar before, but this thing is so custom wired, it would need to be blah blah blah and he fixes it (I'll come back to why this would be better later). Just have Finn take the dialogue with Han about fixing the ship instead of Rey, even if you have some overlap of her mentioning anything while piloting it, but then you have her and Han saying the same solution at the same time so it doesn't look like Rey knows more about his highly customized ship than the guy who did the customizing. When Kylo takes Rey, he should have also taken BB8 - both methods of finding Luke Skywalker. The whole film's motivation was finding Luke, so maintaining that as the crux of the film's plot would have been a better climax. Eliminate the super weapon and just have the planet be a highly fortified base where they have the only keys to finding the last Jedi Master. Your final assault is now a rescue mission, not a super weapon Death Star Ultra 9000. When Kylo is looking into Rey's mind, just have some vague background voices that you can pick up Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin, but Luke's more clearly. And then immediately after you have her able to do a mind trick? Easy to later explain that Luke was able to subtly help her from far away, guiding her similar to how Obi-Wan once guided him. When they arrive to rescue her, instead of Finn being a janitor, you reveal he was in maintenance repairing ships. Han's "you were a janitor" line changes to denegrating Finn as "a mechanic" but it still fits with him repairing the Falcon earlier. For the final duel, Rey should have actually had the upper hand at the start with Kylo injured from Chewie's bolt. But they should have done a better job of clarifying him hitting the wound causing more pain, fueling anger, and making him stronger so as the fight continued, he gained and she was losing. The ground splitting apart would have been the only thing to save her. That sets up Kylo as a dangerous threat that will need to be overcome later and the heroes barely escape alive. Last Jedi? So much of a mess, it's hard to say a few tweaks would fix it, but a couple that do stand out to me: Rose declares that the Empire somehow has hyperspace tracking that nobody has ever had before. There's no real reason or explanation, she just says they have it and that's the end of the discussion and we accept it. Scrap that nonsense. Instead, because that should be impossible, you have the only conclusion be that there's a traitor among the Resistance ships. Have some reason for Poe to suspect Holdo herself and Holdo doesn't trust anyone besides her closest staff. You've now got a set up for the two to withhold information and be at each other's throats while trying to expose the traitor. Meanwhile, Finn & Rose have some excuse to head to our casino planet - perhaps the guy there can identify the traitor, whatever the maguffin is. Either you follow through on the traitor plot, or you learn from him that the Empire HAS developed hyperspace tracking capabilities. (Or y'know, you could just reveal that Snoke is able to track them because of Leia's strength in the Force - adding a wrinkle to why he can't track Luke). The Holdo Maneuver Keep the maneuver as it is, but give it to Leia. Early in the film, she laments how she's tired of losing people (and she just lost Han in the previous film) through war. This is her chance to save them instead. You have Leia stay on the ship, send everyone away. She sits in the bridge, takes a deep breath, and opens her eyes to see Luke sitting next to her. They exchange a few lines of dialogue before saying goodbye, but keep Luke's "nobody's ever really gone" line before she closes her eyes again as we hear The Force Theme play. Switches move, lights turn on, and you get the hyper space jump that takes out the ship. Plausible explanation for never using it before and never using it again - Leia is a powerful Jedi. She didn't use the computer to make that jump, she used the Force. Even after she did it, nobody can wrap their head around how she did it. This also leaves Holdo for a third film where you can reconcile her and Poe, develop her into an actual leader, and have her undergo character growth. It also keeps Luke alive to the final film because c'mon, everyone expected him to die just because Obi-Wan and Yoda did. :p Now, all this said. . . . . .it doesn't fix Luke. Fixing Luke would require a heavier rework of the whole film. Some defend it as an interesting character arc for Luke, but Luke has already undergone his hero's journey. He doesn't need a new character arc, he needs to pass the torch to the new cast as part of THEIR character arc and journey. Instead, they just had Rey swing a lightsaber around on her own while Luke gave her 2 out of 3 lessons on why the Jedi should end and why she should understand he won't train her (ironically, the third lesson that got cut would have worked best as a cautionary lesson for actually training her). Only for Yoda to say the Sacred Texsts were boring and not sacred, but since Rey has them, she has everything she needs to be a Jedi. It was absolute nonsense. Everything the film presented as its bold new direction was undermined by its own narrative and it returned to the status quo within 1 hours of breaking that status quo. The film is nonsense. The only thing I really liked about TLJ was the big reveal that Rey's a nobody from nowhere. Lineage was never a Jedi thing, Luke & Leia were the outliers. Rey being a powerful Jedi from nothing absolutely worked.
The Rise of Skywalker? Gah, what a disaster. The biggest thing I'd change is to have Snoke back right after being killed as the big trailer mystery but with a fairly similar explanation to Ep 9's plot - he's a clone. In fact, he's been cloned multiple times. I would have simply had Snoke be a Sith scientist that was deeply involved in Palpatine's cloning program to achieve immortality but it wasn't completed until after the Battle of Endor. He's completed it, so his death on the ship in TLJ was meaningless. Beyond that, damn near all of the rest of the film needed to be reworked. Saving Star Wars based on what we've got? I've thought long and hard about this and the only path I see if a unified timeline. Stop all current projects and announce an animated series or film adapting Shadows of the Empire (this is 100% just a filler to buy time). While that's being done, they review the EU novels: Which were the most important to the EU timeline? What were the primary events in those most important stories? How do you streamline that between Ep 6 and 7? Hamill might agree to reprise Luke in voice acting. Han & Leia would be more readily accepted with new voice actors (especially with how well Troy Baker just did as Indiana Jones, holy crap some people thought they used AI to do Harrison Ford's voice). Then you adapt those selected books into animated series/films to fill in the time between Ep 6 and 7, tying in what they've done with Mandalorian, and basically establish the films/series are the canonical events and the EU books were the exaggerated versions told by storytellers around the galaxy (They're already referred as "Legends" after all). Kind of like the comic books in the film Logan where Wolverine says "About half of it actually happened, and not like this." You figure out how to build this out until it intersects with what the sequels did. Example: Han & Leia have two children - Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) and Jaina Solo while Luke and Mara have a son - for simplicity sake we'll say Jacen Skywalker Kylo Ren kills Mara Jade, Jaina Solo and Jacen Skywalker were away when the attack happened. Luke stayed on Ach-To because he couldn't bring himself to kill Ben, but he was trusting Jacen and Jaina to find a way to stop him. Rey was unexpected, but threw an extra twist into events. You'd probably have to scrap the full New Jedi Order, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi series as they'd be too difficult to get them to work into a unified story. You could possibly use some aspects for future films instead, though. Ultimately, you have a final film, or trilogy, that brings Jacen Skywalker (Luke & Mara's son), Jaina Solo (Han & Leia's daughter), and Rey Palpatine together to form the new Jedi Council. Think of them as the Star Wars TriForce akin to Zelda - one for wisdom, one for courage, one for power forming the balanced core of the New Jedi Order's council. The idea here is to try and cobble SOMETHING together that new fans who somehow did enjoy the sequels aren't written off and lost, but winning back the long time fans by bringing parts of the EU back in and unifying into something cohesive. HOWEVER - this has to be a single film or a trilogy that serves as the Skywalker Saga's epilogue. If you do it as Star Wars Episode 10-12 then twelve is officially the end of the Episode films and the Skywalker Saga is over. No more Jacen. No more Jaina. No more Rey. The next film is set 100+ years later as "Star Wars Knights of the New Republic" or Star Wars "The New Republic Era Episode I" and you're on your own going forward. No more recognizable characters to lean on, but no more lore to step on and screw up. Going one additional step, I'd have the New Jedi Order lean more heavily into Kurosawa samurai films that influenced the Jedi to begin with; wandering travelers, knight errants, who right wrongs as they find them. The wandering samurai counterpart to Mandalorian's wandering gun slinger. The big departure here is the Jedi are less connected to the New Republic and often are in conflict with them. Something might be legal and still wrong. If The Force guides them to do something that is contrary to the Republic's laws, the Jedi side with the will of the Force.
It will only happen if Disney makes chapters in the saga that are somehow WORSE than Last Jedi. I wouldn’t put it past them to do so, but it would still be an amazing accomplishment for all the wrong reasons.
@@ForceMaximus84that's exactly how i got into star wars rebels. I didn't like rebels and then the sequel trilogy was so awful it made me watch it again and i realized its a lot better with 3 garbage movies to compare it to.
The Last Jedi was focused on subverting expectations analogous to a car subverting expectations by having square tires and no engine. It subverted expectations in a mindless childish manner where Rian’s Johnson was saying “wouldn’t it be funny if all the story threads went nowhere and were completely pointless.” It deliberately ruined any hope of a story emerging and thus sabotaged Rise of Skywalker, forcing it to waste a couple hours retconning Last Jedi just to attempt to have some semblance of a story.
The Last Jedi subverted so many expectations that it became a parody in of itself, they were so focused in subverting expectations that they forgot that they are making a movie and have lost a lot of sense in of itself, it does not feel like I am watching a Star Wars movie, it was like watching a Spaceballs movie that trying to act seriously and done it terribly, comes off terrible the way was done, they tried to conclude all plot in this movie and in an anti-climating or pointless way and forgot that this movie was meant to set up the next movie, forgot this was a second movie in the trilogy and realise they forgot about leaving something for the third movie and try to finish the movie open ended in more of a last minute decision, the ending definitely done last minute, they definitely tried to conclude and finished the movie in some way, and we got that ending, so yeah
What’s worse is that Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger actually signed off on it, thinking us gullible fans would lap it up. They really thought we were stupid.
@@tallaster-g7s it was a rip off of a New Hope, we all knew and could see that…but trying to make out it was some sort of franchise killer is people trying to rewrite history and claim some weird victory by saying they knew before everyone else. I’m calling BS, deal with it!
What truly annoys me about Luke in the sequel trilogy is that in the original trilogy, Luke usually bounced back from his failures, e.g. Empire Strikes Back, where he failed to complete his Jedi training, failed to save Han and failed to defeat Darth Vader, by the time of Return of the jedi, Luke rectified his mistakes from Empire Strikes Back and managed to bring peace to the galaxy but in the sequel trilogy he makes one mistake and he suddenly feels like becoming a hermit and cutting off any communication with his friends, leaving the galaxy to be conquered by what is essentially a new empire
Exactly. Even if he swore the Jedi needed to end and he would not train another, he should have been helping correct his mistake. But then, Ep VII didn't totally kill that. Han said Luke went in search of something, looking for answers in the old temples. The set up was clearly there that Luke didn't abandon them so much as he didn't expect to be gone so long but whatever he found has kept him away. Last Jedi just went in a totally different direction.
That’s the point!!! Luke was a young man. A cog in the machine of a revolution. So he “failed upward” like Yoda. He was resilient and he rectified his mistakes. Luke of Episode 8 is an old man. A galactic hero with superhuman expectations on him. He’s lost the resilience of youth. He failed to develop the wisdom of his mentors…so he becomes fearful and starts to fail downward like his father was prone to. The point wasn’t to show a superhero. It was to hold up a mirror to us. To show how we often become scared and small as we age or start to feel vulnerable or overwhelmed. It was a metaphor for how the younger generations view the failures of their elders. …and that they need to rely on themselves. It’s a message that I don’t think works for SWs…but it is a cohesive one. I dislike Episode 9 far more than any issues I had with 8.
@@kellygreenii "The point wasn't to show a superhero." Agreed. The point was to SUBVERT... ruin... one. MAYBE your theory could pass, if we only look at Luke, in isolation from the other male characters... and the other movies and shows coming out of LucasFilm. Taken in context, with the rest... no, it doesn't pass muster.
True, without TLJ the Critical Drinker would not have climbed to 1 million subs (let alone 2 million). And also without it, two of the biggest geek streaming shows on TH-cam - EFAP (Every Frame a Pause) and FNT (Friday Night Tights) - would not exist. Which would mean the entire online review community since 2018 would look different.
@Chuck_EL of course, he was because a force sensitive storm trooper who defected from the First Order. Much better story than a force sensitive female who has no family ties in the beginning and was able to utilize the force no training, no nothing.
I honestly thought he was being set up for Force Sensitivity in the first Disney one, of course I never watched the second one since the first effectively killed my interest in the Disney version of the series.
Agreed, at first I've liked it until my honeymoon phase faded away and saw how bad it was, when I was criticising it, I begin to realise how bad it is, worse then what the Prequels were, and I like the prequels
I think that The Rise of Skywalker is actually worse, much as I hate to say it. But I almost can't fault the third movie because there was no way to really succeed after TLJ. Everyone was just walking off the field at that point.
Yep I don't even get excited for anything anymore the last time was the final spider-Man movie I can't remember being excited for any movies after that.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Not even anime ones or asian dramas? Rurouni Kenshin is currently my favorite live action franchise next to the Ip Man films with Donnie Yen.
The Last Jedi was a movie I wanted to love, everyone in my family, who are all avid Star Wars fans, warned me not to watch it, but I did and my God it was just as bad as they said it was. I was well aware of what was going to happened, I prepared myself for some cringe and disappointment, and my God everything was just as disappointing as it would be if I went in with no spoilers, actually if I went in with no spoilers, it probably would have been even worse. When I heard Rian Johnson say it would divide fans I was like what the fuck are you doing dude! The fans are already divided! You wanna divide them even more!? TH-cam music critic Todd in the Shadows has this show called Trainwreckords, which is where he examines the albums that either killed an artists' career or was the death of an era of popularity for an artist. The Last Jedi was Star Wars's Trainwreckored. Has it killed the franchise? No i don't think so, but it has lead to what future generations of Star Wars fans will call THE DARK AGE OF STAR WARS.
"We're still talking about TLJ, that means it's a significant movie!" Yeah, and we still talk about slavery and the World Wars, that doesn't mean they're good.
7 years ago, The Last Jedi was the movie that made me lose my trust with sites like Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic. It was also the movie where I learned that not liking this movie was the beginning of an ostracization process where I began to have a falling out with a social circle I was in.
It's been 7 years, where is his Star Wars trilogy? And please don't make it a thing, he ruined Star Wars on me, heck I could of made a better movie then him, lol
I hope Rian Johnson can make a Star Wars trilogy that subverts the audiences expectations. He'll know he has a good trilogy if half the audience likes it and half the audience hates it.
@@doyscherrThat’s the garbage in his mind that he built up, but at this point, only the diehard shills will see anything he makes in the franchise going forward.
Honest trailers said it best, The rise of skywalker did what the last Jedi could never do, unite people who liked TLJ and hated TLJ with hating TROS I miss return of the Jedi and the empire strikes back
Good stuff. I watched TLJ when it was on Netflix. Didn't watch it a second time, nor have I watched the other two ST movies. I take exception to one thing you said, in that I draw a distinction between a "strong female character" and a "girl boss". Jyn Erso was a strong female character but she was also surrounded by a plethora of strong male characters--none of whom she could boss around.
i like that frank oz came back to do yoda………shame corporate disney won’t let him do muppet stuff anymore…..and shame disney won’t do stuff with the muppets anymore.
I don't just hate this movie for being the movie that it is. I hate it because of what it could have and should have been. We had one more chance to beautifully wrap up the star trios stories and pave the way for their offspring to epically carry on to newer stories. But no, we got space Mary Poppins, dumb casino run, forced romance BS, champion of the missed opportunity. The best part? Commander Soccer-mom explodinating ( no joke I did like that shot) It was downhill from there.
The sequels will not be loved after the years like the prequels have been….bevause no one liked the sequels, it’s why Star Wars has become a dead franchise almost, canceling shows and movies and games left and right
@@rawleigh729 the prequels were at least made with good intentions. Their hearts were in the right place. They had an idea for a “fall from grace” storyline and wanted to add to the saga. Just poorly executed. That’s more than I can say for the sequel trilogy. It served no purpose beyond making money.
The Prequels were made in good faith (however poorly executed), and had a story to tell-and stuck to it. It really was a writer's vision. Disney's Trilogy was just corporate slop made to make money. And it showed. They would have been better off making Spaceballs 2 (then again they would have messed that up too).
I'd still say it's too soon with the Sequels. It hasn't even been 10 years since the first one came out, though it's about to. I think it would be best to come back when the 10th anniversary of the Rise of Skywalker comes around to see if it created any new Star Wars fans, or if it's looked back on with more positive eyes.
@@sammysstopmotionoas1996 I understand what you said but there's nothing iconic enough and interesting enough in those films for them to be seen fondly by large part of the public
I know alot of people blame TLJ for the collapse of Star Wars, but it was setup in Force Awakens. After promoting Luke in all the marketing and talking about him throughout the film.....he doesn't show till literally the final scene and DIDN'T SAY A WORD! I knew in that moment I was purposely trolled and knew something was wrong. One could say, I felt a disturbance. 🤷🏾♂️
Force Awakens left so many avenues for them to go ahead and to explain (like how did Rey defeat a fully trained Dark Side user without training) things. They abandoned all of it and produced one of the worst movies I have ever seen.
7 years? Mind blowing. I remember sitting in my college cafeteria seeing the ratings for this movie when it came out. Noticed it was getting mixed ratings at the time.
Lol, me & my friends still got so much stuff to pass on to new generations. One of my friend's kids are currently having a dope childhood with films by Satoshi Kon, Hayao Miyazaki & other animes. Moribito 2007 & Fma: Brotherhood are some of their favorites.
Awesome 👍 I am relatively new to anime and just started watching Miyazaki films this year. Already finished Ponyo and Naussica. Can't wait to watch more stuff, especially the ones you recommended
i've legitimately heard people say "last jedi" was good because all the characters were deliberately written to make stupid decisions so that the movie could have a theme of failure and learning and growing from it. i swear, film-bro youtube has no standards. just give something a theme and they'll lie back and take ANYTHING a movie does without complaining, no matter how incoherent, illogical, unrealistic, poorly acted, tonally inappropriate, ugly-looking, uneventful or irrelevant to the plot. if the director did it with a deeper artistic purpose, then it's good no matter what it is. these are people who care ONLY about what the director is trying to say with the stuff they put into the movie, and in no way whatsoever about what the stuff in the movie actually IS.
I liked it at first but I was mostly just emotional about losing Carrie Fischer and really appreciated seeing her and going to see Star Wars with my dad has always been special
I've been watching your channel for a while, I've really been digging your content. Excellent way to break down The Last Jedi and the aftermath of it all. Keep up the good work!
I agree with everything said here. And it was sad. That's why the moment Luke returned at the end of Mando S2 meant so much to me. Because I got to see my hero again.
Star Wars used to be a sacred franchise but lost most of its luster when Disney turned it into a nonstop content machine. Granted, it technically started in the 2000s with the prequels and the clone wars show but it got much worse when Disney bought it.
There are definitely worse movies out there but it's just not a good film. From the mishandling of the characters to the completely nonsensical story, I just don't know how The Last Jedi ever had any fans. Last Jedi has some positives I would say it's definitely a good-looking movie and the acting for the most part is a decent, but apart from that I can't really give it any praise.
The Last Jedi is just a mediocre movie that has divided the fans, and that's it. The Rise of Skywalker is what unified the Fandom by saying they hated Star Wars.
Don't forget what was in the cut content. Luke actually mourning Han. The sequels did have fans. Kids that grew up with it. Much like the Prequels. The only issue is it had no coherent or cohesive storyline. At best, it functions as a Summer blockbuster spectacle, you shut your brain off too. At best meh. Kinda sucks this was the catalyst for the fan divide
Yes, but the prequels have a bigger fandom because the era itself is so rich in lore that is further explored in comics, shows, books and video games. The sequels haven't really had any expansion aside from a failed cartoon series and limited comic series about Poe and Kylo Ren. This is why I doubt the sequels will be reevaluated as the prequels were.
she wasnt super mary sue in the last jedi except for the humiliating defeat of Kylo. she was quite bubbly and energetic and naive. But in the last Jedi she should have the been student to Luke. the story should have been how she grew under Lukes teaching and not rrbuking the Grandmaster. If luke did that to Yoda people will be irritated
@@hecticfunentertainment9373 Rey is a Mary Sue in TFA. The fact that she not only resists Kylo's mind probe, but mind tricks a storm trooper. Han, Finn, and Chewbacca arrive to rescue her. She's already escaped. Rey believed the Jedi were a myth at the start of TFA. Compare this to Luke's journey. His most developed skill in A New Hope is piloting. Luke doesn't even use mind trick until Return of The Jedi. Rey in TFA is a better fighter, pilot, and force user than Luke. The fact that Rey beats Kylo is a complete joke. He's had decades of training with the force and lightsaber. A recurring issue with Disney era force users is that they barely use the force. Kylo throws Rey into a tree, yet he only did it once.
So are we just ignoring that Kylo was already injured from a bow caster shot to the side? You're acting like Rey in TFA wasn't fighting an opponent with a handicap. Yeah her using the Force with no training was stupid but she was nowhere near a complete Mary Sue in TFA
Watching the latest Star Wars movie was a family tradition for us too. We'd have a lot of fun talking about it and speculating where the story would go next. Even after Force Awakens, I'd wear my Star Wars gear out in public and have fun conversations with strangers about the latest movie. That all died with The Last Jedi. My family drove home in awkward silence after that movie, and every public conversation about it that I saw turned into an argument.
I honestly feel it’s more Disney’s fault than Ryan Johnson’s, it’s not like Ryan Johnson wrote down “every Star Wars project will be ruined because of me” no Disney owns this franchise and they clearly don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.
@ I’m just saying if you see a movie you really dislike who are you gonna blame? Ryan Johnson who’s proven time and time again that he’s an incredible filmmaker with the Knives Out movies, or the studio who released Wish. Disney is what caused this not Ryan Johnson.
Seems to me Disney's fault was not getting JJ Abrams to return for the second movie. The Force Awakens had pretty much universal audience appreciation.
Except he had the idea and they signed off on it, either because they wanted it or because fans would be too stupid to notice. Disney’s own hubris will destroy them, but Rian Johnson planted the seed in Star Wars’ destruction.
@@zacharyroth3028except his style of movies don’t lend themselves to an epic previously established continuity. Not to mention he is overrated af. All of his movies fall apart if you think about them for half a sec. Knives out is just a bunch of plot contrivances and conveniences and oh a “subset expectations” ending with the red herring being the killer this time! Wow I’m not impressed! And looper is just a dumb movie with an ending that renders everything literally impossible to have happened.
This is something I actually found out a lot of people really didn’t like what they did with Luke Skywalker in this movie and wondered why Ryan Johnson did what he did. Well I discovered it’s meant resemble what happened to King Arther when he entered middle age, he was exiled, his kingdom burns, and it was all Arthur’s fault even without knowing that i actually liked what Ryan Johnson did with Luke. For starters it’s pretty ballsy to do something like this for a beloved character but more importantly it’s been more than 40 years since the original trilogy’s events of course some people are going to change or be different after more than 40 years.
"...it’s pretty ballsy to do something like this for a beloved character..." What makes something "ballsy" when it is a creative endevor is that it might fail in the eyes of the public, that it won't be recieved by the intended audience, and that it won't resonate as timeless art. Being ballsy has more opportunity of failure than it has opportunity of success. Where did Rian Johnson's Star Wara movie fall on the ballsy-success-failure spectrum?
@ Everything that happened to Star Wars afterwards is because of Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, do you honestly think that this guy legitimately went out of his way to destroy Star Wars? How can you look at the other films Ryan Johnson has done and honestly believe that?
@@zacharyroth3028from what i resesrch it was mainly j.j. abrams fault and he approved what ryan did. the two big problems that they did with Luke us 1. his trastic change was either poorly excuted or had zero justification. when obiwan anf yoda became hermits it made sense what happened to them and all the more tragic. for luke it was just weird. now he is having a pity party. 2. his choice. when lobiwan and yoda became hermit they did not lose all sense of hope. Luke could have atopped being a Jedi in name. but should not have been in action. what i expected like tony stark in end game, he got a family. a child that really really loves. became the father that Anakin wanted to be. and his fear was for kids and not because of his failures. that is what would have been a balsy but poetically written for luke.
@@zacharyroth3028 um by looking at his films and saying the exact same thing as TLJ- “You know now that I actually think about the plot and the characters, nothing makes sense and is very contrived and convenient!” Knives out is nothing more than a bunch of contrivances and conveniences strung together with a nice “subvert the expectations ending” by having the red herring actually be the killer! Wow! I’m not impressed! And looper is just a dumb movie with an ending that ruins it all! Most overrated director ever!
@@Theworthlessopinion Jesus dude calm down. I personally disagree but to each their own. This is the problem with the a lot of nerd communities today, nobody wants to be civil anymore, if you don’t like Ryan Johnson that’s fine I just respectfully disagree with you
me too. i understand what last jedi was trying to do perfectly, have a theme about improving through failure, or something along those lines, and i still think it's terrible even despite knowing that. because the way the theme was added into the movie was by having the characters make dumb decision after dumb decision, the thing everybody complains about in bad slasher movies all the time, but the moment it's with the intention of saying something about failure being a teacher, suddenly, OOOH, anyone who cares about the quality of the writing is an intellectually inferior caveman! everyone reading this, what was your favorite part of any of the original 6 star wars movies growing up? the action? the characters? the spaceships? the lightsaber duels? or was it the DeEp iNTeLlEcTuAl UnDeRtOnEs?
At the time, I didn't like TLJ. I thought it was a mess and felt like I had wasted my time. Looking back at the movie now and seeing the extensive amount of damage that movie ended up doing, it has only become more difficult for me to see that movie as "harmless" as the defenders still try to make it out to be.
A film has never made me more upset at its creator than the last Jedi, hell i never fancied myself as a big Luke Skywalker fan, but watching it just hurt, completely missed the mark on who he is and undermined his whole journey.
5:13 Well, Star Wars was always mor a merchandising brand and not a movie brand. At least since the prequels. Episode 1 was the first movie in history who made his break even point BEFORE release in cinema.
I havent wanted to rewatch it . Ever. When i went home from the theatre, i was confused and in a weird mood. If luke was meant to die, it couldve been done better. Compare to my favorite og movie, return of the jedi. Theres sadness cause its the last of that trilogy, vader died and luke has to cremate him after helping him find himself, i have a sense of peace watching the rebels party with the ewoks. There waa no peace with last jedi.
Same here, I had that honeymoon phase after watching it and thinking about the movie and such, trying to make sense of it, just to me something feels off, feels weird, then once that honeymoon phase is gone, I realise how bad that movie and such, so yeah
@@asarishepard8171 I left the theater truly stunned at what I had just watched. The next day, I went to my dad (lifelong Star Wars) and said “I have never had more CONTEMPT for a movie! I wanted to leave the theater!”
I was bored in the middle of it. That shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. Leia Poppins shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. When my childhood hero "dies" and my reaction is "That's it?!?!? That's all we get? I waited 34 years for this?" instead of crying. That shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. Disney simply doesn't know how to make good Star Wars.
Trying to get more people to watch a product has been ruining art. Anything that gets an audience and makes money, is just looked at as a vehicle to get a bigger audience and make even more money. They don't make the next edition for the people that watched the first one. They think of that person as already "in the bag", so they make the product for those they didn't reach with the first attempt, hoping to get both groups, more people, and more money. Trying to make art for everyone makes the blandest art. Not even really art, as it says nothing, because it can't offend anyone.
My friend's older sister always thought Star Wars was a dumb thing her little brothers liked. The sequels got her into Star Wars. She enjoyed them. She went back and re-watched the original and the prequels. She concluded the sequels sucked. They got her interested in giving the franchise a chance but her conclusion was the sequels ultimately sucked. That's quite an unusual accomplishment.
I remember my friends and I all went to the Denny's after watching TLJ. We were all sat there so sad, fiddling with our Grand Slams. Eight stunned people who just saw a thing they love get murdered in front of them. We were there for at least two hours trying to piece together what we just witnessed. What did they just do? Who put these people in charge? Star Wars was one of my favorite things until Disney took over. I never watched or purchased another Star Wars product again after that night. The most insane thing about it to me was, that's exactly what they wanted.
An insult to storytelling, the legacy of the franchise, and the audience! Stories must have a constructive change in status quo. This movie practically ends where it starts. Rey learns nothing. You could remove Finn’s storyline completely and lose nothing. Po has a non character arc of being wrong to just being wrong. Luke’s apparent attempt to kill his nephew after successfully redeeming Vader, destroys his character. And to try to redeem him by using a force ghost but to die anyway?!?! Why not actually have him there physically sacrificing himself heroically?!?! Snoke was killed but he was a non factor to begin with. The modern day humor and dialogue is inappropriate for Star Wars because it dates the movie. Star Wars should have a timeless quality in the dialogue. The opening scene, the first order decides to destroy a stationary object rather than the actively escaping resistance fighters because………. “We’re not gonna win destroying what he hate, but by saving what we love” while the enemy is shooting a gigantic laser beam directly at your allegiance. Yea you’re guaranteed to lose. Rose tico is the most disposable annoying character I have ever seen in my life. THE FORCE IS RUINED! The force can apparently allow you to survive the vacuum of space. So leia should be an unstoppable weapon but we’re just not gonna address that in the context of the film. They just act like that didn’t happen. Yoda can use the force and affect the living world even though he’s a ghost…….so why don’t he, qui gonn, Obi wan, and anakin all join the fight?!?! Are they just watching the world burn in the afterlife?!?! Luke’s force apparition can actually lightsaber fight?!?! Until Kylos lightsaber goes through the apparition?!? Admiral Holdo is an unbelievable arrogant character with no reason to do what she does. Is that enough?!?!
I think the important thing for me is that before The Last Jedi, I genuinely believed that Disney and Lucasfilm had a clear plan in place and knew where they were going, as naive as that was. If The Last Jedi proved anything to me, it's that Disney and Lucasfilm had no plan. They were just making it up as they went along. And whether people love The Last Jedi or hate it, there's no denying that it exposed arguably the biggest failing of Disney Star Wars; the lack of long-term planning. And that problem is still very much prevalent today. And I think that's why I find it difficult to believe that TLA will get re-evaluated. It represents an ongoing problem with Lucasfilm's approach to making Star Wars content. Their lack of willingness to think in the long term and actually plan ahead for the future.
Honestly I was pissed they killed Luke that way. In that movie it still followed a long with the heros journey type stuff. Skywalker is the one that really pissed me off. It made no since. Why would palpatine hide that long? Space horses? Why waste Lando? Where did the broom kid go? Ugggh. Why name her a Skywalker? They had no plan with these movies Daisy admitted that. Ha at least the pre queals had some George in it. I really quit after that acolyte shit. Gave up Disney/Hulu/ESPN after episode 5 or 6. I mediate on the force everyday I found balance after letting go of Disney.
to me woke is simple its any bad movie that uses politics to cover for bad writing something having a woman in it doesnt make it woke her being strong doesnt make it woke but if the show is bad your only defense is "women" then its woke
Still haven’t seen it. I saw a new hope in theaters when it was first released. Saw everything in theaters until Disney bought it. Watched tfa on a disc, watched rogue one, then I was out. Still out
I’ve probably spent too much time on TH-cam, but I have to wonder if you will some day launch a dedicated cultural criticism channel with your own hand-drawn avatar like so many of your peers: Alteori, Mjtanner, Overly Sarcastic Productions Red, Nutsa, SuperButterBuns, and probably others. I think I just want to see the Jester Bell cartoon avatar. In the mean time, keep being awesome; you’re good company and I’m glad for the time you share with us.
The last piece of Star Wars media I sought out was TLJ. I was a huge fan prior; read the "EU", played all the games, knew the lore. I recall leaving the theatre and wondering what the hell I just watched. It was my eye opening moment to the subversion going on in culture and media.
I had a friend who gave me two 3 plus hour lectures on how bad this flick is ! I never watched it after that because I not only saw it .. I experienced the whole range of emotional trauma he went through in not getting up out of his seat and screaming at the screen with well laced obscenities for what was put upon his senses as a true Star Wars fan.
What a lovely and thoughtful video JB... I completely agree with you. I'd love to buy you a minty new SW T-shirt, but unfortunately, I don't think they exist anymore. I'm going to try and sum this all up in one sentence... "Ruin Johnson was effectively, the instigator of Pop Culture terrorism"...
22:00 "[The last jedi] is significant. Its significant in that its shi-... In that it signaled a big change" I know what you were gonna say there and I agree
That article from the Wrap is quite interesting and telling. BUT the thing is these decisions are not being motivated by regular business strategy, but rather as hostages of the big scale bizarre investment schemes that depend on metrics created arbitrarily by rating agencies to then attract outside investment.
Being in the culture war at that time the war was in full swing and didn't have to watch the movie to know what was coming. It basically opened alot of people's eyes who didn't realize it at the time.
Something no one discusses, that kk and her crew don’t understand is the force. They seemed to use it more as a plot device than how it actually worked
That's because The Force is inspired by actual religious concepts that are thousands of years old, while most people in Hollywood are soulless demons who are incapable of any sort of spiritual experience. If someone only cares about themselves, it is impossible for them to understand that everyone and everything, down to the smallest of microscopic organisms, are connected.
" The Last Jedi" The film that launched a thousand TH-cam channels.
The best thing about is the irony of the title…..the last Jedi is rather fitting lol
And created a culture war to boot against Hollywood itself and potentially Sports as well... It's just spread like that
And ironic, most of them are made to criticise the movie, and other side are defending it, and other that are shilling for such, TLJ was bad, I found out about that after seeing it and when my honeymoon phase faded away until I realise how bad it is, so yeah
The Sonic '06 of Star Wars.
@@TrossellFig💯
The last Jedi destroyed the Jedi in a way that even Anakin Skywalker couldn’t.
Plus it shows the writers don’t understand the Jedi at all because the Jedi were not failures hell Luke proves that he’s is their greatest success.
@@jaieregilmore971Not necessarily. While Luke was trained by Jedi, he found it in himself to redeem his father while Yoda and Obi-wan just wanted b to become a weapon to kill Vader and the Emperor.
@@tesslichtman7302 Can we honestly blame them? Vader and The emperor are literally the worst people in the galaxy that deserves death overall Luke didn’t listen to them to kill Vader and show compassion is a Jedi greatest strength.
Guys. The thing is. And I wrote this YEARS AGO. SO BEAR WITH ME LOL
“Why I hate TLJ so much. It isn’t trash, but on many fundamental levels this movie just doesn’t emotionally resonate with a lot longtime fans of the franchise. Or me. Obviously it had the box office cash so that’s the only resonation that matters to Disney. I don’t have the patience to watch it again. Ever. Fans, especially the super hardcore expanded universe fans, need to realize this is another generations stars wars trilogy. And that’s fine if that’s what it’s become. Just hard to let go of I guess and whether if you can put it out of your mind the 30 years of lore that made Luke Skywalker into the badass that Star Wars made him out to be instead of the Disney Star Wars version of wolverine in Logan. It literally fills me with anger the more I think about the last Jedi. Or what I now refer to as the original trilogy wheel of death. They think that killing people off creates more dramatic weight, but in actuality it’s just pissing people off and doing the characters a disservice. And just to be clear, Luke, the real Luke, which is what makes luke skywalker so goddamn lovable, is that he believes that Anyone can be redeemed. Even Vader. Who of course wiped out the Jedi, murdered children, and literally helped blow up a fucking planet. Amongst a billions over travesties committed. And he still believed Vader was worthy saving. But no. Luke gets one bad vision of his sisters kid and is like, ‘I’m going take him out?’ Horseshit. And shitty writing by people who do not understand or ever cared to understand these characters beyond their own limited vision. “
@@darthsmallville just a few corrections. It IS trash, and it's not a new generations Star Wars. It's just Disney's bastardization. The new generation could have gotten something on the levels of Kotor or the Thrawn Trilogy. But no. They got the God awful Sequel trilogy. I feel sorry for them that they think the sequel trilogy is so good. They need to read more.
At 48 years old, one thing that I have come to accept is that all things end. Your movie franchise will end or fade. Your favorite band will break up or carry on into embarrassing, piss-dribbling old age. Your favorite creator will quit or die. All things end. What keeps me happy and grounded is two things. 1) Appreciate what we had and the joy it brought us and can still bring us now. 2) Great new things don't come around often, but when they do, live in that moment and enjoy it to the fullest.
Fine wisdom. Much suffering is due to an inability to adjust to change, and attachments.
This has been a hard lesson for me, but you are absolutely spot on
I'm only 29 and this cultural conflict made me discover and accept that several years ago.
I read your post in the Baz Luhrman Sunscreen rhythm, it's like 2.0 version of the lyrics.
@@danielcharland1374 Indeed. I think what makes now different is that so much of what I described is happening in rapid fire succession. It's forcing people to learn that lesson a lot younger than they normally would have. On a related note, RIP Akira Toriyama.
Darth Vader: ( Murdered many innocent people and tortured Han Solo and Leia ).
Luke: There is still good in him.
Kylo Ren: ( Had a bad dream ).
Luke: Oh, Hell No! He must die!
Preach!!!!!!!! Not that that was a good plot, I’m saying you’re making the great point of how Luke is destroyed lol
“Ironic”
- Palpatine
Reductive. We have no idea what sort of horrible thoughts Luke saw when he read Ben's mind. I assume it was horrific mass violence that made Luke's defensive instincts kick in.
I don't think that plot point was conveyed very well, but people act like Luke *actually tried* to kill Ben in his sleep (instead of standing there with his lightsaber and instantly regreting it), which is more of a character assassination than the actual events of in the movie, ironically. Leave it to the fans.
@@RacingSnails64
1) whats more mass than blowing up a planet with the intention of blowing up more? At that point, Kylo hadn't done anything yet.
2) The act of drawing his light saber as a knee-jerk reaction was stupid for someone like Luke. It did not fit his character at all. This is his innocent nephew who he is watching over. Why the hell would he even have the thought to kill him before even speaking to him once. Epic fail writing and epic fail defending. A bullshit "moment of weakness" is still bullshit.
@@RacingSnails64Luke would never stand over a defenseless person with a deadly weapon, period. It doesn’t matter how regretful he was afterwards.
So what if Kylo Ren had thoughts of mass violence? His father literally committed planet wide genocide and Luke was still capable of calming down and putting his lightsaber down. You’re telling me that an older version of this character somehow loses his ability to keep composure just because his nephew had edgy thoughts?
"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to". Well, you got what you wanted, Disney. I hope getting that new audience, that "modern" one that I've heard so much about, was worth it.
Based on how many played the game Concord the “modern audience” are about 800 people
@@joimumu😅
"Mean spirited." You said it perfect. I saw the TLJ with a close friend from high school. He had just moved back to our hometown after a decade being away. We had one hell of a night planned. We did dinner, the bar, then walked to this amazing new theater for the movie. And two and a half hours later, we walked out taken aback.
We are two guys who probably don't look like the stereotypical nerds. The bartender that night was listening to us talking before the movie, and giggled and said something to the effect of, "you two come in looking like gym bros, and open your mouth only to have Magic the Gathering fall out! It's really adorable!" But we were going in that night with some high hopes. We both more or less enjoyed the Force Awakens, but even then we were confused by Rey seeming like she was more like a plot device and not really a person... like, she had a shallow personality, and was too good at everything without really any reason why... we both did NOT like when she was showing up Han on the Falcon, but let it slide because... well... obviously she's Luke's granddaughter or relation! Duh! Also... "wasn't that basically a rehash of like, A New Hope?" But hey, Star Wars was back! And we both loved Rogue One! There must be a DAMN good reason Luke was willing to toss his lightsaber! Maybe it was a fake! Or there was a tracker... or maybe it was something else! It was a cliffhanger we needed to know about! So whatever, no story is perfect... and we planned an amazing Friday on the town and then TLJ!
Yeah... we were looking at each other through the movie. Our faces saying the same thing without the need of words. "What the fuck?!" Like, what the hell was happening?! Did the writers for this not watch the first movie?? Why does it feel like they are trying to assassinate Luke as a Jedi AND as just a regular human being?! It wasn't hidden. It was screaming in our faces that our childhood hero (he and I were both team Luke all the way, but were still really sad at what they did to Han, which in hindsight, we talked after the movie, seemed to be a theme the new movies were on about) was a washed up bitter failure of a man. Han had become a smuggler or whatever again... the rebellion was back for no apparent reason, and then we were being scolded and lectured about war profiteering and other real world nonsense that we didn't sign up for. "Let the past die???" Yeah, no. You are deliberately murdering the past to try to replace it with your shabby, mean-spirited, shallow, poorly-written and even poorer executed husks of new characters.
I happen to love Laura Dern. So why did they call her an admiral and then dress her in an ugly prom dress with purple hair?? Why was she being one of the worst types of leaders imaginable?! Why didn't they just see if Admiral Dolores Umbridge was free and use her, if we're supposed to despise this new character! Why did you kill cute A-wing pilot girl?? Since when do star ships need a gas station?? The holdo manuever?!?!? Did anyone stop to think what that does to the established rules of the story?!! Why does it feel like this whole movie was created as a giant MIDDLE FINGER to people like my friend and I?!
Because that's exactly what it was made for. It was actually made to spit in the face of people like my friends and I, who have enjoyed Star Wars since we were kindergartners in the late 80's. While we thought the prequels definitely had some flaws, they still felt Star Warsy to us, and let us wax poetic about Star Wars Pod Racing, when we were hanging out late at night. The prequels told us as fans, that they still knew us and what we enjoyed, and while it may not have always landed, they were still trying to give us what they knew we wanted. TLJ told us that we were wrong. About Luke. About Yoda. About Han. About Leia. It told us that our time was thankfully over, and that we could stay if we wanted, but were not really welcome. TLJ told us that the space opera was over, and now that this "Rian Johnson" was writing the story, he was going to use SW as a PLATFORM to scold us about things we have zero control over, but that are very definitely a part of our own world. To hell with immersion! This round headed little white fellow had a MESSAGE that we were going to PAY to hear, and if we didn't like it, we just must be misogynists, bigots, slave-owners, and war profiteers... apparently... It was on the border of passive aggression and regular old aggression, and it felt MEAN-SPIRITED!
I'm sorry for making such a rambling accounting of my experience back then! But hearing "mean-spirited" touched the still sore wound that TLJ left in me, my friends, both male and female, and my sister. We were all looking forward to the era of Disney Star Wars because we thought we'd get to finally see amazing expanded universe content, and would finally get to meet Mara Jade, Jedi Master Luke, Jaina, and the Solo/ Skywalker kids, Grand Admiral Thrawn (pity they never used that amazing and deep character in any of the new stuff! He woulda made such a fantastic addition, and maybe would even bring some of us back into the fold! ...shame they chose to forget he exists and never ever used him. Not once...), and all the rest. "Disney has more money than God! And we're absolutely gonna start getting the BEST STORIES! They even put the woman who was there the whole way, and that Lucas vouches for! This is gonna be AMAZING!!" We had that conversation. I remember it. I remember being in a group of maybe eight of us, men and women, who were seriously excited for Disney shelling out the cash to buy the whole of Lucas Film's IPs...
Okay... I made myself feel sad, now. I'll be going... If you made it this far, I'm really sorry you're having such a slow night =-(
Yeah when I saw Holdo I felt like I wasn’t supposed to like her but then Leia just supports her. The Holdo maneuver is a complete ripoff of Star Trek’s famous Picard Maneuver which was stolen. Kylo REN sucks and is even worse than Rick Moranis being Dark Helmet.
Man.
"It told us that our time was thankfully over, and that we could stay if we wanted, but were not really welcome."
Boy, I felt this exactly. So many choices in that movie felt deliberately antagonistic. I left the theatre angry. Not disappointed or apathetic... angry. Yes, it's just media entertainment, it's a waste of emotional energy. But I *did* care about the Star Wars mythology, and it seemed like I was being mocked by the very thing that I enjoy. Still makes me mad, it felt so deeply personal for some reason.
By the way, they did use Thrawn in the Ahsoka show. I didn't watch it, but I hear that it went as poorly as you might expect.
Sir, I respect your ramble so I offer you my own:
I guess in hindsight, The Last Jedi brought my life into balance in a sense. Way back in the early 2000s, I saw The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring on opening night at midnight. The next day, a coworker regretted not seeing it and convinced me to see it with him at 8PM, so I saw that film twice on opening day.
I had tickets to see The Last Jedi and was out with some friends before they went to see it, but my showing was the next day. They looked and there was still seating available to see it with them, so I agreed. I saw it twice on opening day. The second time, I wasn't sure I wanted to, but thought maybe a second showing and chewing on it would warm me to it or there were aspects I overlooked that had more meaning. Alas, no.
The only two films in my life I've seen twice in a 24 hour period in theaters. The Fellowship of the Ring offering the light and The Last Jedi offering the dark. Suppose the Force is balanced in a way....
What kills me how they could have worked better with small changes. Overall, I would have had Finn be the Storm Trooper turned Jedi, Rey the scrappy scavenger turned rogue pilot, and Poe the military pilot that butts heads with Rey but can more easily navigate the bureaucracy of government (essentially filling Luke, Han, and Leia's archetypal roles), but I'm not talking a full rewrite of the whole thing here:
Force Awakens?
Instead of Han being a broken old man who left his wife because he couldn't deal with everything so he went back to smuggling, make him taking on the risky, underbelly missions for the "Resistance" (they should have scrapped that nonsense btw) on the outer rim territories, hoping he'll pick up some info that would lead to a chance to try and reach his son. Nothing in the film would change except Han & Leia didn't split up, they're bearing the sadness of being apart in hopes of reaching their son.
On the Falcon, Finn should have been the one to figure out how to fix it, not Rey. Give him some dialogue about how he's seen something similar before, but this thing is so custom wired, it would need to be blah blah blah and he fixes it (I'll come back to why this would be better later). Just have Finn take the dialogue with Han about fixing the ship instead of Rey, even if you have some overlap of her mentioning anything while piloting it, but then you have her and Han saying the same solution at the same time so it doesn't look like Rey knows more about his highly customized ship than the guy who did the customizing.
When Kylo takes Rey, he should have also taken BB8 - both methods of finding Luke Skywalker. The whole film's motivation was finding Luke, so maintaining that as the crux of the film's plot would have been a better climax. Eliminate the super weapon and just have the planet be a highly fortified base where they have the only keys to finding the last Jedi Master. Your final assault is now a rescue mission, not a super weapon Death Star Ultra 9000.
When Kylo is looking into Rey's mind, just have some vague background voices that you can pick up Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin, but Luke's more clearly. And then immediately after you have her able to do a mind trick? Easy to later explain that Luke was able to subtly help her from far away, guiding her similar to how Obi-Wan once guided him.
When they arrive to rescue her, instead of Finn being a janitor, you reveal he was in maintenance repairing ships. Han's "you were a janitor" line changes to denegrating Finn as "a mechanic" but it still fits with him repairing the Falcon earlier.
For the final duel, Rey should have actually had the upper hand at the start with Kylo injured from Chewie's bolt. But they should have done a better job of clarifying him hitting the wound causing more pain, fueling anger, and making him stronger so as the fight continued, he gained and she was losing. The ground splitting apart would have been the only thing to save her. That sets up Kylo as a dangerous threat that will need to be overcome later and the heroes barely escape alive.
Last Jedi?
So much of a mess, it's hard to say a few tweaks would fix it, but a couple that do stand out to me:
Rose declares that the Empire somehow has hyperspace tracking that nobody has ever had before. There's no real reason or explanation, she just says they have it and that's the end of the discussion and we accept it. Scrap that nonsense. Instead, because that should be impossible, you have the only conclusion be that there's a traitor among the Resistance ships. Have some reason for Poe to suspect Holdo herself and Holdo doesn't trust anyone besides her closest staff. You've now got a set up for the two to withhold information and be at each other's throats while trying to expose the traitor.
Meanwhile, Finn & Rose have some excuse to head to our casino planet - perhaps the guy there can identify the traitor, whatever the maguffin is. Either you follow through on the traitor plot, or you learn from him that the Empire HAS developed hyperspace tracking capabilities. (Or y'know, you could just reveal that Snoke is able to track them because of Leia's strength in the Force - adding a wrinkle to why he can't track Luke).
The Holdo Maneuver
Keep the maneuver as it is, but give it to Leia. Early in the film, she laments how she's tired of losing people (and she just lost Han in the previous film) through war. This is her chance to save them instead.
You have Leia stay on the ship, send everyone away. She sits in the bridge, takes a deep breath, and opens her eyes to see Luke sitting next to her. They exchange a few lines of dialogue before saying goodbye, but keep Luke's "nobody's ever really gone" line before she closes her eyes again as we hear The Force Theme play. Switches move, lights turn on, and you get the hyper space jump that takes out the ship.
Plausible explanation for never using it before and never using it again - Leia is a powerful Jedi. She didn't use the computer to make that jump, she used the Force. Even after she did it, nobody can wrap their head around how she did it.
This also leaves Holdo for a third film where you can reconcile her and Poe, develop her into an actual leader, and have her undergo character growth. It also keeps Luke alive to the final film because c'mon, everyone expected him to die just because Obi-Wan and Yoda did. :p
Now, all this said. . . . . .it doesn't fix Luke. Fixing Luke would require a heavier rework of the whole film. Some defend it as an interesting character arc for Luke, but Luke has already undergone his hero's journey. He doesn't need a new character arc, he needs to pass the torch to the new cast as part of THEIR character arc and journey. Instead, they just had Rey swing a lightsaber around on her own while Luke gave her 2 out of 3 lessons on why the Jedi should end and why she should understand he won't train her (ironically, the third lesson that got cut would have worked best as a cautionary lesson for actually training her). Only for Yoda to say the Sacred Texsts were boring and not sacred, but since Rey has them, she has everything she needs to be a Jedi. It was absolute nonsense.
Everything the film presented as its bold new direction was undermined by its own narrative and it returned to the status quo within 1 hours of breaking that status quo. The film is nonsense.
The only thing I really liked about TLJ was the big reveal that Rey's a nobody from nowhere. Lineage was never a Jedi thing, Luke & Leia were the outliers. Rey being a powerful Jedi from nothing absolutely worked.
The Rise of Skywalker?
Gah, what a disaster. The biggest thing I'd change is to have Snoke back right after being killed as the big trailer mystery but with a fairly similar explanation to Ep 9's plot - he's a clone. In fact, he's been cloned multiple times. I would have simply had Snoke be a Sith scientist that was deeply involved in Palpatine's cloning program to achieve immortality but it wasn't completed until after the Battle of Endor. He's completed it, so his death on the ship in TLJ was meaningless. Beyond that, damn near all of the rest of the film needed to be reworked.
Saving Star Wars based on what we've got?
I've thought long and hard about this and the only path I see if a unified timeline. Stop all current projects and announce an animated series or film adapting Shadows of the Empire (this is 100% just a filler to buy time). While that's being done, they review the EU novels:
Which were the most important to the EU timeline?
What were the primary events in those most important stories?
How do you streamline that between Ep 6 and 7?
Hamill might agree to reprise Luke in voice acting. Han & Leia would be more readily accepted with new voice actors (especially with how well Troy Baker just did as Indiana Jones, holy crap some people thought they used AI to do Harrison Ford's voice).
Then you adapt those selected books into animated series/films to fill in the time between Ep 6 and 7, tying in what they've done with Mandalorian, and basically establish the films/series are the canonical events and the EU books were the exaggerated versions told by storytellers around the galaxy (They're already referred as "Legends" after all). Kind of like the comic books in the film Logan where Wolverine says "About half of it actually happened, and not like this."
You figure out how to build this out until it intersects with what the sequels did.
Example: Han & Leia have two children - Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) and Jaina Solo while Luke and Mara have a son - for simplicity sake we'll say Jacen Skywalker
Kylo Ren kills Mara Jade, Jaina Solo and Jacen Skywalker were away when the attack happened.
Luke stayed on Ach-To because he couldn't bring himself to kill Ben, but he was trusting Jacen and Jaina to find a way to stop him. Rey was unexpected, but threw an extra twist into events.
You'd probably have to scrap the full New Jedi Order, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi series as they'd be too difficult to get them to work into a unified story. You could possibly use some aspects for future films instead, though.
Ultimately, you have a final film, or trilogy, that brings Jacen Skywalker (Luke & Mara's son), Jaina Solo (Han & Leia's daughter), and Rey Palpatine together to form the new Jedi Council. Think of them as the Star Wars TriForce akin to Zelda - one for wisdom, one for courage, one for power forming the balanced core of the New Jedi Order's council.
The idea here is to try and cobble SOMETHING together that new fans who somehow did enjoy the sequels aren't written off and lost, but winning back the long time fans by bringing parts of the EU back in and unifying into something cohesive.
HOWEVER - this has to be a single film or a trilogy that serves as the Skywalker Saga's epilogue. If you do it as Star Wars Episode 10-12 then twelve is officially the end of the Episode films and the Skywalker Saga is over. No more Jacen. No more Jaina. No more Rey.
The next film is set 100+ years later as "Star Wars Knights of the New Republic" or Star Wars "The New Republic Era Episode I" and you're on your own going forward. No more recognizable characters to lean on, but no more lore to step on and screw up.
Going one additional step, I'd have the New Jedi Order lean more heavily into Kurosawa samurai films that influenced the Jedi to begin with; wandering travelers, knight errants, who right wrongs as they find them. The wandering samurai counterpart to Mandalorian's wandering gun slinger. The big departure here is the Jedi are less connected to the New Republic and often are in conflict with them. Something might be legal and still wrong. If The Force guides them to do something that is contrary to the Republic's laws, the Jedi side with the will of the Force.
I don't normally read long posts like yours, but I just felt compelled to. I'm glad you shared your story.
The day that movie become beloved im done with cinema
It will only happen if Disney makes chapters in the saga that are somehow WORSE than Last Jedi. I wouldn’t put it past them to do so, but it would still be an amazing accomplishment for all the wrong reasons.
@@ForceMaximus84 Im trying to imagine that day……oh dear God
@@Theworthlessopinion It’s best not to think about it.
@@ForceMaximus84No. It has no redeemable qualities, nothing will make this movie nostalgic.
@@ForceMaximus84that's exactly how i got into star wars rebels. I didn't like rebels and then the sequel trilogy was so awful it made me watch it again and i realized its a lot better with 3 garbage movies to compare it to.
The Last Jedi was focused on subverting expectations analogous to a car subverting expectations by having square tires and no engine.
It subverted expectations in a mindless childish manner where Rian’s Johnson was saying “wouldn’t it be funny if all the story threads went nowhere and were completely pointless.”
It deliberately ruined any hope of a story emerging and thus sabotaged Rise of Skywalker, forcing it to waste a couple hours retconning Last Jedi just to attempt to have some semblance of a story.
I also agree with everything you said in the video
Sooooo true ❤❤🙏✅
The Last Jedi subverted so many expectations that it became a parody in of itself, they were so focused in subverting expectations that they forgot that they are making a movie and have lost a lot of sense in of itself, it does not feel like I am watching a Star Wars movie, it was like watching a Spaceballs movie that trying to act seriously and done it terribly, comes off terrible the way was done, they tried to conclude all plot in this movie and in an anti-climating or pointless way and forgot that this movie was meant to set up the next movie, forgot this was a second movie in the trilogy and realise they forgot about leaving something for the third movie and try to finish the movie open ended in more of a last minute decision, the ending definitely done last minute, they definitely tried to conclude and finished the movie in some way, and we got that ending, so yeah
@@Lexy-O You hit the nail on the head there
What’s worse is that Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger actually signed off on it, thinking us gullible fans would lap it up. They really thought we were stupid.
Your Star Wars shirt that’s Fading away perfectly describes how the Sequel Trilogy was fading after Episode 8’s Blunder.
For me it started with episode 7.
@@tallaster-g7s people only say that with hindsight. With #8, it was said as soon as people left the theatre
Movies don't need more than 1 sequel. The 8th Star Wars movie was predictably bad.
@@GIBBO4182 I imediatley saw problem with 7 when it came out. So yes some of of fans do not need hindsight at all.
@@tallaster-g7s it was a rip off of a New Hope, we all knew and could see that…but trying to make out it was some sort of franchise killer is people trying to rewrite history and claim some weird victory by saying they knew before everyone else. I’m calling BS, deal with it!
It has always confused me, that someone would think, even for a second. That yelling "This is NOT FOR YOU!!!" would be inclusive.
DEI hire at work. Simple as that
Is that you Brie Larson?
What truly annoys me about Luke in the sequel trilogy is that in the original trilogy, Luke usually bounced back from his failures, e.g. Empire Strikes Back, where he failed to complete his Jedi training, failed to save Han and failed to defeat Darth Vader, by the time of Return of the jedi, Luke rectified his mistakes from Empire Strikes Back and managed to bring peace to the galaxy but in the sequel trilogy he makes one mistake and he suddenly feels like becoming a hermit and cutting off any communication with his friends, leaving the galaxy to be conquered by what is essentially a new empire
Exactly. Even if he swore the Jedi needed to end and he would not train another, he should have been helping correct his mistake.
But then, Ep VII didn't totally kill that. Han said Luke went in search of something, looking for answers in the old temples.
The set up was clearly there that Luke didn't abandon them so much as he didn't expect to be gone so long but whatever he found has kept him away.
Last Jedi just went in a totally different direction.
They had to get that pesky man out of the way, so that their new GB Mary Sue could take over.
That’s the point!!!
Luke was a young man. A cog in the machine of a revolution. So he “failed upward” like Yoda. He was resilient and he rectified his mistakes.
Luke of Episode 8 is an old man. A galactic hero with superhuman expectations on him. He’s lost the resilience of youth. He failed to develop the wisdom of his mentors…so he becomes fearful and starts to fail downward like his father was prone to.
The point wasn’t to show a superhero. It was to hold up a mirror to us. To show how we often become scared and small as we age or start to feel vulnerable or overwhelmed.
It was a metaphor for how the younger generations view the failures of their elders. …and that they need to rely on themselves.
It’s a message that I don’t think works for SWs…but it is a cohesive one.
I dislike Episode 9 far more than any issues I had with 8.
@@ninjafoxgamesgeekeryBasically. JJ Abram’s was trying to preserve the legacy. Rian Johnson wanted to smash it and create his own
@@kellygreenii "The point wasn't to show a superhero."
Agreed.
The point was to SUBVERT... ruin... one.
MAYBE your theory could pass, if we only look at Luke, in isolation from the other male characters... and the other movies and shows coming out of LucasFilm.
Taken in context, with the rest... no, it doesn't pass muster.
TLJ's greatest legacy is the multitude of TH-cam channels that it launched.
I loved watching maulers videos
True, without TLJ the Critical Drinker would not have climbed to 1 million subs (let alone 2 million). And also without it, two of the biggest geek streaming shows on TH-cam - EFAP (Every Frame a Pause) and FNT (Friday Night Tights) - would not exist. Which would mean the entire online review community since 2018 would look different.
23:03 "...if Star Wars stays dead for the rest of its life..."
Translation: Star Wars is a vampire.
Finn should've been the new Jedi. I damn near left the theater when Rose sideswiped Finn smh.
Originally he was supposed to and lead the next Jedi generation
Finn should have been the main character.
@Chuck_EL of course, he was because a force sensitive storm trooper who defected from the First Order. Much better story than a force sensitive female who has no family ties in the beginning and was able to utilize the force no training, no nothing.
@@xaviermartin390Exactly
I honestly thought he was being set up for Force Sensitivity in the first Disney one, of course I never watched the second one since the first effectively killed my interest in the Disney version of the series.
After 7 years, The Last Jedi is still the worst Star Wars movie ever made, marking the downfall of the franchise ever since.
Definitely in the discussion as the worst franchise films ever made
Agreed, at first I've liked it until my honeymoon phase faded away and saw how bad it was, when I was criticising it, I begin to realise how bad it is, worse then what the Prequels were, and I like the prequels
Atrocious movie
I think that The Rise of Skywalker is actually worse, much as I hate to say it. But I almost can't fault the third movie because there was no way to really succeed after TLJ. Everyone was just walking off the field at that point.
Number 9 would be worse, because of the stupidity and back paddleing - not by much, but still the worse.
Ten years of aches and pains from every single franchise burnt to the ground and its all for nothing
Soooo true, unfortunately!
@@chasehedges6775 Most of my childhood hasn't been ruined yet.
Yep I don't even get excited for anything anymore the last time was the final spider-Man movie I can't remember being excited for any movies after that.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Not even anime ones or asian dramas? Rurouni Kenshin is currently my favorite live action franchise next to the Ip Man films with Donnie Yen.
@@peterfrost377 not recently I try but I feel numb AOT was the last thing that brought me back but the ending sucked.
The Last Jedi was a movie I wanted to love, everyone in my family, who are all avid Star Wars fans, warned me not to watch it, but I did and my God it was just as bad as they said it was. I was well aware of what was going to happened, I prepared myself for some cringe and disappointment, and my God everything was just as disappointing as it would be if I went in with no spoilers, actually if I went in with no spoilers, it probably would have been even worse. When I heard Rian Johnson say it would divide fans I was like what the fuck are you doing dude! The fans are already divided! You wanna divide them even more!? TH-cam music critic Todd in the Shadows has this show called Trainwreckords, which is where he examines the albums that either killed an artists' career or was the death of an era of popularity for an artist. The Last Jedi was Star Wars's Trainwreckored. Has it killed the franchise? No i don't think so, but it has lead to what future generations of Star Wars fans will call THE DARK AGE OF STAR WARS.
@@sammysstopmotionoas1996 I saw it with my dad, uncle, and brother…..always loved Star Wars……I wanted to leave the theater halfway
Sooooo true and well said
rian johnson is on my never to give money to list... i really do not like him .... he has a face in search of a fist..
"We're still talking about TLJ, that means it's a significant movie!"
Yeah, and we still talk about slavery and the World Wars, that doesn't mean they're good.
7 years ago, The Last Jedi was the movie that made me lose my trust with sites like Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic. It was also the movie where I learned that not liking this movie was the beginning of an ostracization process where I began to have a falling out with a social circle I was in.
I lost trust in RT when they gave the 2016 Ghostbusters a high score.
I heard through the grapevine that Ryan's new Star Wars trilogy will be a none-of-a-kind event coming out Feb 30th one of these years...
It's been 7 years, where is his Star Wars trilogy?
And please don't make it a thing, he ruined Star Wars on me, heck I could of made a better movie then him, lol
I hope Rian Johnson can make a Star Wars trilogy that subverts the audiences expectations.
He'll know he has a good trilogy if half the audience likes it and half the audience hates it.
@@doyscherrThat’s the garbage in his mind that he built up, but at this point, only the diehard shills will see anything he makes in the franchise going forward.
"None of a kind" is fantastic. I hope you don't mind if I borrow it
Honest trailers said it best, The rise of skywalker did what the last Jedi could never do, unite people who liked TLJ and hated TLJ with hating TROS
I miss return of the Jedi and the empire strikes back
Good stuff. I watched TLJ when it was on Netflix. Didn't watch it a second time, nor have I watched the other two ST movies.
I take exception to one thing you said, in that I draw a distinction between a "strong female character" and a "girl boss". Jyn Erso was a strong female character but she was also surrounded by a plethora of strong male characters--none of whom she could boss around.
Rogue One generally gets better fan and audience appraisel in discussions.
The "other two movies"???
The are eleven in total ... Star Wars is bigger than the slop Disney gave us.
@@doyscherr Yeah. Except for Darth Melvin.
i like that frank oz came back to do yoda………shame corporate disney won’t let him do muppet stuff anymore…..and shame disney won’t do stuff with the muppets anymore.
I really liked Andor. One of the best shows of any franchise in the past decade
Yeah so good
I don't just hate this movie for being the movie that it is. I hate it because of what it could have and should have been.
We had one more chance to beautifully wrap up the star trios stories and pave the way for their offspring to epically carry on to newer stories.
But no, we got space Mary Poppins, dumb casino run, forced romance BS, champion of the missed opportunity. The best part? Commander Soccer-mom explodinating ( no joke I did like that shot)
It was downhill from there.
I thought she was Admiral Wine Aunt.
The sequels will not be loved after the years like the prequels have been….bevause no one liked the sequels, it’s why Star Wars has become a dead franchise almost, canceling shows and movies and games left and right
@@rawleigh729 the prequels were at least made with good intentions. Their hearts were in the right place. They had an idea for a “fall from grace” storyline and wanted to add to the saga. Just poorly executed. That’s more than I can say for the sequel trilogy. It served no purpose beyond making money.
The Prequels were made in good faith (however poorly executed), and had a story to tell-and stuck to it. It really was a writer's vision.
Disney's Trilogy was just corporate slop made to make money. And it showed. They would have been better off making Spaceballs 2 (then again they would have messed that up too).
I'd still say it's too soon with the Sequels. It hasn't even been 10 years since the first one came out, though it's about to. I think it would be best to come back when the 10th anniversary of the Rise of Skywalker comes around to see if it created any new Star Wars fans, or if it's looked back on with more positive eyes.
@@sammysstopmotionoas1996 I understand what you said but there's nothing iconic enough and interesting enough in those films for them to be seen fondly by large part of the public
We still talk about the Roman Empire, slavery and the holocaust years later, that doesn't mean they were a good thing.
I know alot of people blame TLJ for the collapse of Star Wars, but it was setup in Force Awakens. After promoting Luke in all the marketing and talking about him throughout the film.....he doesn't show till literally the final scene and DIDN'T SAY A WORD!
I knew in that moment I was purposely trolled and knew something was wrong. One could say, I felt a disturbance. 🤷🏾♂️
Force Awakens left so many avenues for them to go ahead and to explain (like how did Rey defeat a fully trained Dark Side user without training) things. They abandoned all of it and produced one of the worst movies I have ever seen.
7 years? Mind blowing. I remember sitting in my college cafeteria seeing the ratings for this movie when it came out. Noticed it was getting mixed ratings at the time.
Before TLJ, I never imagined not going to the theaters to watch a Star Wars movie. I never watched any new Star Wars movie again after TLJ.
I went with a friend to see The Rise of Skywalker. I wish I hadn't
There’s a treasure trove of stories in the expanded universe. They could have ridden that train for decades, but kk….
It might’ve been Disney not wanting to pay the original authors to have their works adapted into screenplays. Either way, it was a dumb decision.
It’s funny you say that. It’s probably true, yet Disney has been so incredibly wreckless with their spending elsewhere.
When your aim for making a movie is to "subvert expectations" and "divide the fanbase", you deserve a lightsaber in the eye.
Retroblasting’s review of Indiana Jones and The Dial Of Destiny sums up my thoughts on Pukasfilm.
Lol, me & my friends still got so much stuff to pass on to new generations. One of my friend's kids are currently having a dope childhood with films by Satoshi Kon, Hayao Miyazaki & other animes. Moribito 2007 & Fma: Brotherhood are some of their favorites.
Awesome 👍 I am relatively new to anime and just started watching Miyazaki films this year. Already finished Ponyo and Naussica. Can't wait to watch more stuff, especially the ones you recommended
I know its a dune poster, but with the glare from the sun I thought for a second it was a poster for the Cher movie Mask. 😂
i've legitimately heard people say "last jedi" was good because all the characters were deliberately written to make stupid decisions so that the movie could have a theme of failure and learning and growing from it.
i swear, film-bro youtube has no standards. just give something a theme and they'll lie back and take ANYTHING a movie does without complaining, no matter how incoherent, illogical, unrealistic, poorly acted, tonally inappropriate, ugly-looking, uneventful or irrelevant to the plot. if the director did it with a deeper artistic purpose, then it's good no matter what it is. these are people who care ONLY about what the director is trying to say with the stuff they put into the movie, and in no way whatsoever about what the stuff in the movie actually IS.
I felt like Star Wars was dead when Disney bought it. It seems like Disney has been trying to prove that for all these years.
It also died with the PT hate back in 1999. Revenge Of The Sith is still good.
Your shirt is a metaphor for the value of Star Wars
Family Guy Star Wars > Disney Star Wars.
They released pre Disney buying Fox.
I liked it at first but I was mostly just emotional about losing Carrie Fischer and really appreciated seeing her and going to see Star Wars with my dad has always been special
I've been watching your channel for a while, I've really been digging your content. Excellent way to break down The Last Jedi and the aftermath of it all. Keep up the good work!
I agree with everything said here. And it was sad.
That's why the moment Luke returned at the end of Mando S2 meant so much to me. Because I got to see my hero again.
With all due respect, F this movie
Star Wars used to be a sacred franchise but lost most of its luster when Disney turned it into a nonstop content machine. Granted, it technically started in the 2000s with the prequels and the clone wars show but it got much worse when Disney bought it.
I disagree with endless content. I do agree with lacking quality story.
There are definitely worse movies out there but it's just not a good film. From the mishandling of the characters to the completely nonsensical story, I just don't know how The Last Jedi ever had any fans. Last Jedi has some positives I would say it's definitely a good-looking movie and the acting for the most part is a decent, but apart from that I can't really give it any praise.
Very true.
The cinematographer and Camera operator guy are the real heroes of that mediocre movie.
@@chasehedges6775 most definitly.
The cinematography in that movie (digital or otherwise) has some truly beautiful moments. I hate the movie, but I'll still give credit where it's due.
@@bros4654 agreed
I feel like initial love TLJ had, has drastically dwindled ever since the last movie came out.
Former personal assistant to Harvey Weinstein, Leslye Headland
The Last Jedi is just a mediocre movie that has divided the fans, and that's it. The Rise of Skywalker is what unified the Fandom by saying they hated Star Wars.
Thanks!
Don't forget what was in the cut content. Luke actually mourning Han. The sequels did have fans. Kids that grew up with it. Much like the Prequels. The only issue is it had no coherent or cohesive storyline. At best, it functions as a Summer blockbuster spectacle, you shut your brain off too. At best meh. Kinda sucks this was the catalyst for the fan divide
Yes, but the prequels have a bigger fandom because the era itself is so rich in lore that is further explored in comics, shows, books and video games. The sequels haven't really had any expansion aside from a failed cartoon series and limited comic series about Poe and Kylo Ren. This is why I doubt the sequels will be reevaluated as the prequels were.
It was released during Christmas for nostalgic reasons.
@@vetarlittorf1807💯💯
@@vetarlittorf1807 Revenge Of The Sith is still good.
@chasehedges6775 I hated the prequels but will accept them as better films than the Disney stuff. They still told a decent anf consistent story.
Rey was already a Mary Sue in TFA. TLJ just cemented that fact.
she wasnt super mary sue in the last jedi except for the humiliating defeat of Kylo. she was quite bubbly and energetic and naive.
But in the last Jedi she should have the been student to Luke. the story should have been how she grew under Lukes teaching and not rrbuking the Grandmaster.
If luke did that to Yoda people will be irritated
@@hecticfunentertainment9373
Your forgetting Rey shoots down 3 tie fighters with 1 shot. She lifts numerous massive boulders without breaking a sweat.
@@sacredbeastzenon sorry i meant she wasnt a mary sue in force awakens. but definitely in last Jedi they made her
@@hecticfunentertainment9373
Rey is a Mary Sue in TFA. The fact that she not only resists Kylo's mind probe, but mind tricks a storm trooper. Han, Finn, and Chewbacca arrive to rescue her. She's already escaped. Rey believed the Jedi were a myth at the start of TFA. Compare this to Luke's journey. His most developed skill in A New Hope is piloting. Luke doesn't even use mind trick until Return of The Jedi. Rey in TFA is a better fighter, pilot, and force user than Luke. The fact that Rey beats Kylo is a complete joke. He's had decades of training with the force and lightsaber. A recurring issue with Disney era force users is that they barely use the force. Kylo throws Rey into a tree, yet he only did it once.
So are we just ignoring that Kylo was already injured from a bow caster shot to the side? You're acting like Rey in TFA wasn't fighting an opponent with a handicap. Yeah her using the Force with no training was stupid but she was nowhere near a complete Mary Sue in TFA
That Jenny Nicholson video wasn't about Galaxy's Edge, it was about the Galactic Starcruiser, she actually likes Galaxy's Edge.
Wow, it's been 7 years since I was legitimately excited to see a Star Wars story
Watching the latest Star Wars movie was a family tradition for us too. We'd have a lot of fun talking about it and speculating where the story would go next. Even after Force Awakens, I'd wear my Star Wars gear out in public and have fun conversations with strangers about the latest movie.
That all died with The Last Jedi. My family drove home in awkward silence after that movie, and every public conversation about it that I saw turned into an argument.
It has a legacy... Is disappointment a legacy?
Rian Johnson successfully split the fanbase lije he wanted.
"I like to make movies that people ether love or hate."
After the last jedi my heart just hasnt been into starwars the same way it was. And i doubt it ever will be.
I honestly feel it’s more Disney’s fault than Ryan Johnson’s, it’s not like Ryan Johnson wrote down “every Star Wars project will be ruined because of me” no Disney owns this franchise and they clearly don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.
It’s both.
@ I’m just saying if you see a movie you really dislike who are you gonna blame? Ryan Johnson who’s proven time and time again that he’s an incredible filmmaker with the Knives Out movies, or the studio who released Wish. Disney is what caused this not Ryan Johnson.
Seems to me Disney's fault was not getting JJ Abrams to return for the second movie. The Force Awakens had pretty much universal audience appreciation.
Except he had the idea and they signed off on it, either because they wanted it or because fans would be too stupid to notice. Disney’s own hubris will destroy them, but Rian Johnson planted the seed in Star Wars’ destruction.
@@zacharyroth3028except his style of movies don’t lend themselves to an epic previously established continuity. Not to mention he is overrated af. All of his movies fall apart if you think about them for half a sec. Knives out is just a bunch of plot contrivances and conveniences and oh a “subset expectations” ending with the red herring being the killer this time! Wow I’m not impressed! And looper is just a dumb movie with an ending that renders everything literally impossible to have happened.
This is something I actually found out a lot of people really didn’t like what they did with Luke Skywalker in this movie and wondered why Ryan Johnson did what he did. Well I discovered it’s meant resemble what happened to King Arther when he entered middle age, he was exiled, his kingdom burns, and it was all Arthur’s fault even without knowing that i actually liked what Ryan Johnson did with Luke. For starters it’s pretty ballsy to do something like this for a beloved character but more importantly it’s been more than 40 years since the original trilogy’s events of course some people are going to change or be different after more than 40 years.
"...it’s pretty ballsy to do something like this for a beloved character..." What makes something "ballsy" when it is a creative endevor is that it might fail in the eyes of the public, that it won't be recieved by the intended audience, and that it won't resonate as timeless art.
Being ballsy has more opportunity of failure than it has opportunity of success. Where did Rian Johnson's Star Wara movie fall on the ballsy-success-failure spectrum?
@ Everything that happened to Star Wars afterwards is because of Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, do you honestly think that this guy legitimately went out of his way to destroy Star Wars? How can you look at the other films Ryan Johnson has done and honestly believe that?
@@zacharyroth3028from what i resesrch it was mainly j.j. abrams fault and he approved what ryan did.
the two big problems that they did with Luke us 1. his trastic change was either poorly excuted or had zero justification.
when obiwan anf yoda became hermits it made sense what happened to them and all the more tragic. for luke it was just weird. now he is having a pity party.
2. his choice. when lobiwan and yoda became hermit they did not lose all sense of hope. Luke could have atopped being a Jedi in name. but should not have been in action. what i expected like tony stark in end game, he got a family. a child that really really loves. became the father that Anakin wanted to be.
and his fear was for kids and not because of his failures. that is what would have been a balsy but poetically written for luke.
@@zacharyroth3028 um by looking at his films and saying the exact same thing as TLJ- “You know now that I actually think about the plot and the characters, nothing makes sense and is very contrived and convenient!” Knives out is nothing more than a bunch of contrivances and conveniences strung together with a nice “subvert the expectations ending” by having the red herring actually be the killer! Wow! I’m not impressed! And looper is just a dumb movie with an ending that ruins it all! Most overrated director ever!
@@Theworthlessopinion Jesus dude calm down. I personally disagree but to each their own. This is the problem with the a lot of nerd communities today, nobody wants to be civil anymore, if you don’t like Ryan Johnson that’s fine I just respectfully disagree with you
So tired of shitty movies being called "misunderstood"
me too.
i understand what last jedi was trying to do perfectly, have a theme about improving through failure, or something along those lines, and i still think it's terrible even despite knowing that. because the way the theme was added into the movie was by having the characters make dumb decision after dumb decision, the thing everybody complains about in bad slasher movies all the time, but the moment it's with the intention of saying something about failure being a teacher, suddenly, OOOH, anyone who cares about the quality of the writing is an intellectually inferior caveman!
everyone reading this, what was your favorite part of any of the original 6 star wars movies growing up? the action? the characters? the spaceships? the lightsaber duels? or was it the DeEp iNTeLlEcTuAl UnDeRtOnEs?
Did the last Jedi become beloved um let me think um HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 😅😅😂🤣😅😅😂🤣🤣 no
At the time, I didn't like TLJ. I thought it was a mess and felt like I had wasted my time.
Looking back at the movie now and seeing the extensive amount of damage that movie ended up doing, it has only become more difficult for me to see that movie as "harmless" as the defenders still try to make it out to be.
Short Answer: No.
Long Answer: NO!
A film has never made me more upset at its creator than the last Jedi, hell i never fancied myself as a big Luke Skywalker fan, but watching it just hurt, completely missed the mark on who he is and undermined his whole journey.
5:13 Well, Star Wars was always mor a merchandising brand and not a movie brand. At least since the prequels. Episode 1 was the first movie in history who made his break even point BEFORE release in cinema.
Thank you, Jester!
I watched it once and never again. That says a lot for someone who went to see a new hope in theater at age 12.
I havent wanted to rewatch it . Ever. When i went home from the theatre, i was confused and in a weird mood. If luke was meant to die, it couldve been done better. Compare to my favorite og movie, return of the jedi. Theres sadness cause its the last of that trilogy, vader died and luke has to cremate him after helping him find himself, i have a sense of peace watching the rebels party with the ewoks. There waa no peace with last jedi.
Same here, I had that honeymoon phase after watching it and thinking about the movie and such, trying to make sense of it, just to me something feels off, feels weird, then once that honeymoon phase is gone, I realise how bad that movie and such, so yeah
@@asarishepard8171 I left the theater truly stunned at what I had just watched. The next day, I went to my dad (lifelong Star Wars) and said “I have never had more CONTEMPT for a movie! I wanted to leave the theater!”
I was bored in the middle of it. That shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. Leia Poppins shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. When my childhood hero "dies" and my reaction is "That's it?!?!? That's all we get? I waited 34 years for this?" instead of crying. That shouldn't happen in a Star Wars movie. Disney simply doesn't know how to make good Star Wars.
@7thwheel thats how I felt too, like it didn't happen
Last Jedi and what they did to Luke set it all off
It has no legacy. It's legacy is a bunch of fans trying to forget it exists.
Bad Fan Fiction written produced and directed by people who aren't fans never gets remembered.
You forgot to thanks JJ Bramabams, the destroyer of franchises! 😂
He was the biggest hack that tricked the fandom into thinking that he was one of them.
Ewoks The Battle For Endor(1985) and Revenge Of The Sith(2005) and Waterworld(1995) are better than TLJ. CHANGE MY MIND!
You're literally correct 3 times in a row
The holiday special is better.
Why Waterworld?
I refuse I agree with you
@@JonCrs10 It’s a 90s classic.
Trying to get more people to watch a product has been ruining art. Anything that gets an audience and makes money, is just looked at as a vehicle to get a bigger audience and make even more money. They don't make the next edition for the people that watched the first one. They think of that person as already "in the bag", so they make the product for those they didn't reach with the first attempt, hoping to get both groups, more people, and more money. Trying to make art for everyone makes the blandest art. Not even really art, as it says nothing, because it can't offend anyone.
You nailed it. Great comment
My friend's older sister always thought Star Wars was a dumb thing her little brothers liked.
The sequels got her into Star Wars. She enjoyed them.
She went back and re-watched the original and the prequels. She concluded the sequels sucked.
They got her interested in giving the franchise a chance but her conclusion was the sequels ultimately sucked.
That's quite an unusual accomplishment.
I remember my friends and I all went to the Denny's after watching TLJ. We were all sat there so sad, fiddling with our Grand Slams. Eight stunned people who just saw a thing they love get murdered in front of them. We were there for at least two hours trying to piece together what we just witnessed. What did they just do? Who put these people in charge?
Star Wars was one of my favorite things until Disney took over. I never watched or purchased another Star Wars product again after that night. The most insane thing about it to me was, that's exactly what they wanted.
The legacy so far for me has been "All discussions on bad writing I have inevitably include The Last Jedi"
If TLJ ever becomes beloved, that will demote reelecting Trump to the second stupidest thing in my lifetime.
It's the aberation of this timeline that slipped into our reality from the dark timeline where everything sucks.
An insult to storytelling, the legacy of the franchise, and the audience! Stories must have a constructive change in status quo. This movie practically ends where it starts. Rey learns nothing. You could remove Finn’s storyline completely and lose nothing. Po has a non character arc of being wrong to just being wrong. Luke’s apparent attempt to kill his nephew after successfully redeeming Vader, destroys his character. And to try to redeem him by using a force ghost but to die anyway?!?! Why not actually have him there physically sacrificing himself heroically?!?! Snoke was killed but he was a non factor to begin with. The modern day humor and dialogue is inappropriate for Star Wars because it dates the movie. Star Wars should have a timeless quality in the dialogue. The opening scene, the first order decides to destroy a stationary object rather than the actively escaping resistance fighters because………. “We’re not gonna win destroying what he hate, but by saving what we love” while the enemy is shooting a gigantic laser beam directly at your allegiance. Yea you’re guaranteed to lose. Rose tico is the most disposable annoying character I have ever seen in my life. THE FORCE IS RUINED! The force can apparently allow you to survive the vacuum of space. So leia should be an unstoppable weapon but we’re just not gonna address that in the context of the film. They just act like that didn’t happen. Yoda can use the force and affect the living world even though he’s a ghost…….so why don’t he, qui gonn, Obi wan, and anakin all join the fight?!?! Are they just watching the world burn in the afterlife?!?! Luke’s force apparition can actually lightsaber fight?!?! Until Kylos lightsaber goes through the apparition?!? Admiral Holdo is an unbelievable arrogant character with no reason to do what she does.
Is that enough?!?!
I think the important thing for me is that before The Last Jedi, I genuinely believed that Disney and Lucasfilm had a clear plan in place and knew where they were going, as naive as that was. If The Last Jedi proved anything to me, it's that Disney and Lucasfilm had no plan. They were just making it up as they went along. And whether people love The Last Jedi or hate it, there's no denying that it exposed arguably the biggest failing of Disney Star Wars; the lack of long-term planning. And that problem is still very much prevalent today. And I think that's why I find it difficult to believe that TLA will get re-evaluated. It represents an ongoing problem with Lucasfilm's approach to making Star Wars content. Their lack of willingness to think in the long term and actually plan ahead for the future.
Honestly I was pissed they killed Luke that way. In that movie it still followed a long with the heros journey type stuff. Skywalker is the one that really pissed me off. It made no since. Why would palpatine hide that long? Space horses? Why waste Lando? Where did the broom kid go? Ugggh. Why name her a Skywalker? They had no plan with these movies Daisy admitted that. Ha at least the pre queals had some George in it. I really quit after that acolyte shit. Gave up Disney/Hulu/ESPN after episode 5 or 6. I mediate on the force everyday I found balance after letting go of Disney.
Merry Christmas JesterB! Enjoy your content.
to me woke is simple its any bad movie that uses politics to cover for bad writing something having a woman in it doesnt make it woke her being strong doesnt make it woke but if the show is bad your only defense is "women" then its woke
Since I’ve got seven years of bad movies, Disney has to do seven years of good movies for me to return and give my time back.
Still haven’t seen it. I saw a new hope in theaters when it was first released. Saw everything in theaters until Disney bought it. Watched tfa on a disc, watched rogue one, then I was out. Still out
You have chosen wisely.
Smart.
I finally called it quits after Mandalorian S:2.
Out of all of it... I only enjoyed Rogue One and Andor. And even those were flawed.
The Last Jedi isn't the Prequels, which is objectively good that some people just dislike. The Last Jedi killed Star Wars. That's it's legacy.
I was invested when I walked out of The Force Awakens. When I walked out of The Last Jedi, I no longer gave a shit
Yea it’s everyone’s favorite movie not a single person dislikes it. It will influence all future movies for years to come.
TLJ was an interesting pivot point which would stand or fall with the direction of its sequel. We all know how that turned out.
I’ve probably spent too much time on TH-cam, but I have to wonder if you will some day launch a dedicated cultural criticism channel with your own hand-drawn avatar like so many of your peers: Alteori, Mjtanner, Overly Sarcastic Productions Red, Nutsa, SuperButterBuns, and probably others. I think I just want to see the Jester Bell cartoon avatar. In the mean time, keep being awesome; you’re good company and I’m glad for the time you share with us.
The last piece of Star Wars media I sought out was TLJ. I was a huge fan prior; read the "EU", played all the games, knew the lore. I recall leaving the theatre and wondering what the hell I just watched. It was my eye opening moment to the subversion going on in culture and media.
I had a friend who gave me two 3 plus hour lectures on how bad this flick is !
I never watched it after that because I not only saw it .. I experienced the whole range of emotional trauma he went through in not getting up out of his seat and screaming at the screen with well laced obscenities for what was put upon his senses as a true Star Wars fan.
I think the shows are failing isn't that their
Star wars shows
It's because their disney+ shows
They’re Modern Disney Star Wars shows. That’s why.
@@chasehedges6775 I have Disney+ through my brothers Verizon plan. I only used it to watch the National Geographic shows.
What a lovely and thoughtful video JB... I completely agree with you. I'd love to buy you a minty new SW T-shirt, but unfortunately, I don't think they exist anymore. I'm going to try and sum this all up in one sentence...
"Ruin Johnson was effectively, the instigator of Pop Culture terrorism"...
This is a really good, well thought out, well presented video. Bravo. And I agree with it.
22:00
"[The last jedi] is significant. Its significant in that its shi-... In that it signaled a big change"
I know what you were gonna say there and I agree
That article from the Wrap is quite interesting and telling. BUT the thing is these decisions are not being motivated by regular business strategy, but rather as hostages of the big scale bizarre investment schemes that depend on metrics created arbitrarily by rating agencies to then attract outside investment.
Being in the culture war at that time the war was in full swing and didn't have to watch the movie to know what was coming.
It basically opened alot of people's eyes who didn't realize it at the time.
A slow space chase that doesn’t make sense
Something no one discusses, that kk and her crew don’t understand is the force. They seemed to use it more as a plot device than how it actually worked
That's because The Force is inspired by actual religious concepts that are thousands of years old, while most people in Hollywood are soulless demons who are incapable of any sort of spiritual experience. If someone only cares about themselves, it is impossible for them to understand that everyone and everything, down to the smallest of microscopic organisms, are connected.