This is so much true, man! I recall it was hard to score an ippon, you really had to earn it. And when you were scored an ippon you wouldn't complain because it had been so clear. This is how I learned in my journey through Judo as a Judoka, competitor, referee, and even coach. Judo was created under a scientific approach, so nothing in it is random. Therefore, the criteria for the scores are absolutely clear, depending on how many of the components a technique achieves - exactly like the instructional video shown here. Now, I really don't know why referees started "overscoring" like this. All I do know is that this started in IJF's world championships, that's for sure. I recall discussing in the dojo how absurd those scored ippons were, compared to the criteria we had in our State-level championships. This is a good question to be tackled: how and why this distortion begin? I already said pretty much the same about the leg grabs prohibition, that the referees were to blame because they didn't give Shidos for bad posture. So, again: what the f... happened to Judo refereeing that have been causing so much trouble to the sport?
Made me smile, Chadi!! As a child, doing my BJA Junior referee course, in the 1980s, , my referee's course coach (Syd Hoare!), became frustrated with me for being too strict with my ippons! Specifically, he demonstrated what he clearly considered an ippon-wotrthy technique. I awarded Wazaari. He shot me a look, along with a raised eyebrow. Then repeated the throw, though this time not as good. I awarded another wazaari. Finally, he explained the issue, threw his victim again, this time flat on his back, with speed, power and control, and I duly awarded him an ippon!! Personaly, I preferred it when yuko was still awarded, as there are, from what I've witnessed, plenty of throws which whilst score worthy, do not to my eyes, merit Ippons and equally plebty which don't truly merit Wazaaris; if Yuko was brought back, it might, perhaps encourage the Judoka to actually work harder to improve their throwing skills. No doubt the world level figters have awesome skills yet they can be improved. If however an 80% success throw is being given an Ippon, as opposed to a wazaari, why would they feel the need to improve. I worry that Olympic Judo, is going in the direction Professor Kano feared, inasmich as competition is becoming the be all and end all of Judo. I'm pretty confident that shiai was only ever supposed to be an aspect of Judo, not the main or only focus....Do please continue with your fascinating videos. They're rarely dull, and to me, anyway, frequently fascinating.💙🤪💙
Yes Chadi, Judo needs a dynamic reality on scoring, many modern ippons are ineffective from a real life fight point of view, yuko must return, some ippons are fake budo even a grandmom can tell, no win with shido whatsoever, and most important: leg grabbing must return. Morote gari, kuchiki taoshi, sukui nage etc are very powerful and impressive techniques.
Try going back to pre WW11 judo thats when we lost judo. Post WW11 not the 70's. Kodokan judo is now so fragmented and diluted its only judo by name certainly not action.
As all sports develop, defense is much better nowadays than it used to be decades ago. Soccer or basketball are not what they were back then due to the players being better at defending. Same here- you're not gonna get your beautiful textbook technique every time you want it.
The best era was when Judo can go toe to toe with BJJ in full grappling matches. And Judo can go toe to toe with Wrestling, Sambo and any other folk or modern wrestling.
i did competitive judo in the 80s in italy and i agree with you 100%. the fact that yuko and koka disappeared is a complete mistery to me. also, to wear a blsck belt you had to be a true champion. then... early 90s nflation begun
Chadi, pls also talk about the duration! A lot of problems you mention, are caused by TV! When Anton Geesing became an Olympic champion, the fight took 20 min! Now it is limited to 4 to reduce valuable TV time. That dictates most of unfavorable changes you mention. TV industry wants quick matches.
Incredibly good martial arts videos. I can highly relate and agree in what i have listened so far in last few vids. I have to subscribe. as a Karateka, I find it hard to find a school that teaches the throws and joint lock techniques involved in Karate as well as strikes from a clinching position. Sport did take over, changed and ruined everything. Well not really, it simply has a different perspective and it is not the one that interests me nor that seem to reflect my vision of Martial Arts. Judo as per what I am learning as undergone a similar process. Arts branch out in different things as before they used to be one. Thank you for sharing
Totally agree with you. But I would not say that standard of throwing was better. The rules were in favour of the proper throwers and you could not get away with these pseudo ura-nages that Buchard, Basile and co are doing nowadays.
I practiced competitive Judo in 80s and 90s and refereed in 2000s (and still doing some). I like your videos, but you have a very idealistic view of how Judo was. Referees were not even near as competent as now and all of them have their personal views on every score. At some point the way sanctions were given was so crazy that if you had a passive shido and a Chui for going out you were winning against an athlete doing the same thing in opposite order (chui for going out + Shido for passive becoming Keikoku). Also defense is now so good that it is really difficult to throw like in the 70s. Leg throw was great, but then you had 2 athletes standing curved 90 degree not leaving any space for any possible throw. I think progress has been made...far from perfect and still too much politics in decision, but for sure things are better now in the rules.
The golden score is better than decisions because with a decision politics and bad calls by the judges will make judo frustrating to watch by the fans. One example is Stevens vs Bischof 2012 which was controversial decision by the judges. About the yuko and koka I absolutely agree but the long BJJ style Ne-Waza exchanges should not be allowed this why there is BJJ and Judo. And I would like to add as an idea a competition organized by the IJF which features only Ne-Waza and showcasing the best Ne-Waza specialist in the IJF.
Personally I wouldnt bring back Yuko in osaekomi, but would absolutely in standing, I think in osaekomi there is an elemant of "setup time" needed to work on an escape, this can be done well before the wazari score time, but not easily before yuko would be scored.
@@Chadi I guess also the inverse of "setup time" is time to effectively establish control too, anyway, I also hate the direction it's going. Have been a competitive Judoka the last 15 years at least and have recently given up the competition because of the way the game is going... it took a 3 month trip to Japan and competing in a Japanese comp to realize that.
Can you do an analysis of Lee Won Hee's 2004 Olympic win? He got thrown for wazari by the athelete from Moldova; it wasn't a clean roll through. He came back to ippon the guy and win the whole event.
I know that modern day judo is a lot different from judo back then. Atleast that’s what everyone says. But is it just judo’s competition rules that changed or has the actual judo curriculum changed ?
The 70th were mighty. But were are no more in the 70th. Bruce Lee, Muhammad Ali and Arnold Schwarzenegger they succeed Elvis and The Beatles In Judo the 70 were good for the West. And Japan had to answer.
The 'history' or 'significance' of an ippon is very simple. An ippon is a clear pseudo killing of a partner in terms of nage waza meaning in the street, without gi nor tatami if the technique used in the dojo against a partner where utilised the result for 'uke', an attacker, would be death. Waza-ari signified an attacker would be more than half incapacitated thus two waza-ari results in certain total incapacity to further attack. If we apply the original concept as outlined above, with some of todays 'ippon' scores we can see a vast difference in a pseudo kill and just a tumble. It is now unwise to look at such things as kodokan judo in ALL aspects has been so diluted its now become not even a second rate form of wresting sport. Its a great great shame but its not going to improve. 😢
You know, I had thought this for many years too but it seems like it’s not exactly the case. Old school Kodokan rules required two ippons or a “nihon” to win. I had recently learned that ippon via osaekomi was a concept borrowed and modified from western wrestling. Kano was trying to get judo into the education system and developed these rules as a way to increase that likelihood. Having said all that, the idea of ippon being a kill on the battlefield may or may not be true but it definitely makes sense.
I do not agree on this. Back in the days there was almost no standard what score is what. They choose what they feel like. I have seen so many ippons from back in the days that just get ippon because they fly high through the air and would not even be a score today. I no this is not in the 70s but look at the ippons that nomura got in all his 3 olympic finals non of them would be ippon today.
Strict scoring would be great, but yuko and koka created and encouraged garbage technique, with lots and lots and lots and lots and LOTS of tactical penalty players who gave us something more like ballet than judo.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 79 | คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs อาเมียร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WfPSA1A0NHc/mqdefault.jpg)
Best haircuts, best clothes, best cars, best movies, best music, best tv,....and the best judo!! Just the best decade all around!!
Best porn staches too.
Second best to the 80's 😛
@@SwordFighterPKN Nah, the 80's were a kidney stone of a decade - painful, but they eventually passed with effort. 😉
@@taylorlibby7642 - LOL!!!!!!
Yep. 90s are second. Verifiable facts.
This is so much true, man! I recall it was hard to score an ippon, you really had to earn it. And when you were scored an ippon you wouldn't complain because it had been so clear. This is how I learned in my journey through Judo as a Judoka, competitor, referee, and even coach. Judo was created under a scientific approach, so nothing in it is random. Therefore, the criteria for the scores are absolutely clear, depending on how many of the components a technique achieves - exactly like the instructional video shown here. Now, I really don't know why referees started "overscoring" like this. All I do know is that this started in IJF's world championships, that's for sure. I recall discussing in the dojo how absurd those scored ippons were, compared to the criteria we had in our State-level championships. This is a good question to be tackled: how and why this distortion begin? I already said pretty much the same about the leg grabs prohibition, that the referees were to blame because they didn't give Shidos for bad posture. So, again: what the f... happened to Judo refereeing that have been causing so much trouble to the sport?
Thank you so much for sharing, I feel your passion
Commerce
Made me smile, Chadi!! As a child, doing my BJA Junior referee course, in the 1980s, , my referee's course coach (Syd Hoare!), became frustrated with me for being too strict with my ippons! Specifically, he demonstrated what he clearly considered an ippon-wotrthy technique. I awarded Wazaari. He shot me a look, along with a raised eyebrow. Then repeated the throw, though this time not as good. I awarded another wazaari. Finally, he explained the issue, threw his victim again, this time flat on his back, with speed, power and control, and I duly awarded him an ippon!! Personaly, I preferred it when yuko was still awarded, as there are, from what I've witnessed, plenty of throws which whilst score worthy, do not to my eyes, merit Ippons and equally plebty which don't truly merit Wazaaris; if Yuko was brought back, it might, perhaps encourage the Judoka to actually work harder to improve their throwing skills. No doubt the world level figters have awesome skills yet they can be improved. If however an 80% success throw is being given an Ippon, as opposed to a wazaari, why would they feel the need to improve. I worry that Olympic Judo, is going in the direction Professor Kano feared, inasmich as competition is becoming the be all and end all of Judo. I'm pretty confident that shiai was only ever supposed to be an aspect of Judo, not the main or only focus....Do please continue with your fascinating videos. They're rarely dull, and to me, anyway, frequently fascinating.💙🤪💙
Also, those green and orange Ref coats are epic!
Yes Chadi, Judo needs a dynamic reality on scoring, many modern ippons are ineffective from a real life fight point of view, yuko must return, some ippons are fake budo even a grandmom can tell, no win with shido whatsoever, and most important: leg grabbing must return. Morote gari, kuchiki taoshi, sukui nage etc are very powerful and impressive techniques.
Standards like this will make Judo a way better base in MMA, that and leg attacks.
The fireman's throw is such a gem wasted.
1970 fue el judo DE LA TÉCNICA ELEGANTE, lograda con estética y sin dudas en su ejecución.( Paita- PERÚ).
In my humble opinion, finishing on top position (standing, as in Sambo, or pining), should also be requisite for the Ippon.
It would be great to have a judo federation where 1970s rules apply.
Stopping this travesty called with the IJF.
Try going back to pre WW11 judo thats when we lost judo. Post WW11 not the 70's.
Kodokan judo is now so fragmented and diluted its only judo by name certainly not action.
In my opinion, these old fights are much more interesting to watch, from a grappling perspective.
Late 70's when my parents put me into judo 😀
As all sports develop, defense is much better nowadays than it used to be decades ago. Soccer or basketball are not what they were back then due to the players being better at defending. Same here- you're not gonna get your beautiful textbook technique every time you want it.
Again, this is excellent and educational. When would you say was the best Era of judo? 🤔
The best era was when Judo can go toe to toe with BJJ in full grappling matches. And Judo can go toe to toe with Wrestling, Sambo and any other folk or modern wrestling.
i did competitive judo in the 80s in italy and i agree with you 100%. the fact that yuko and koka disappeared is a complete mistery to me. also, to wear a blsck belt you had to be a true champion. then... early 90s nflation begun
柔道は元々武道でした。オリンピックに採用されてから段々スポーツに変わって行きました。途中にレスリングになりましたが最近はマシになり以前の柔道の姿に戻って来ている様に思えます。国際審判の質もかなり酷かったのですが最近はかなり良くなりました。
Do many judo players in france also belong to the jiujitsu french umbrella where kicks, double leg take downs and longer newaza is allowed?
Chadi, pls also talk about the duration! A lot of problems you mention, are caused by TV! When Anton Geesing became an Olympic champion, the fight took 20 min! Now it is limited to 4 to reduce valuable TV time. That dictates most of unfavorable changes you mention. TV industry wants quick matches.
Incredibly good martial arts videos. I can highly relate and agree in what i have listened so far in last few vids. I have to subscribe.
as a Karateka, I find it hard to find a school that teaches the throws and joint lock techniques involved in Karate as well as strikes from a clinching position. Sport did take over, changed and ruined everything. Well not really, it simply has a different perspective and it is not the one that interests me nor that seem to reflect my vision of Martial Arts. Judo as per what I am learning as undergone a similar process. Arts branch out in different things as before they used to be one.
Thank you for sharing
Totally agree with you. But I would not say that standard of throwing was better. The rules were in favour of the proper throwers and you could not get away with these pseudo ura-nages that Buchard, Basile and co are doing nowadays.
게임 실력이 정말 인상적이에요! 계속 그렇게 하세요!
I practiced competitive Judo in 80s and 90s and refereed in 2000s (and still doing some). I like your videos, but you have a very idealistic view of how Judo was. Referees were not even near as competent as now and all of them have their personal views on every score. At some point the way sanctions were given was so crazy that if you had a passive shido and a Chui for going out you were winning against an athlete doing the same thing in opposite order (chui for going out + Shido for passive becoming Keikoku). Also defense is now so good that it is really difficult to throw like in the 70s. Leg throw was great, but then you had 2 athletes standing curved 90 degree not leaving any space for any possible throw. I think progress has been made...far from perfect and still too much politics in decision, but for sure things are better now in the rules.
The golden score is better than decisions because with a decision politics and bad calls by the judges will make judo frustrating to watch by the fans. One example is Stevens vs Bischof 2012 which was controversial decision by the judges.
About the yuko and koka I absolutely agree but the long BJJ style Ne-Waza exchanges should not be allowed this why there is BJJ and Judo.
And I would like to add as an idea a competition organized by the IJF which features only Ne-Waza and showcasing the best Ne-Waza specialist in the IJF.
In Olympic wrestling, according to the judges and referees, some of them adhere to high standards to give you four points instead of two points.
I feel very lucky that my training was during that golden age of Judo
I think the old rules at 70's, 80's and 90's really fair to evaluate a throw. Dont like the shido tactics.
Alittle off topic, but what happened to your video on Karl Gotch?
Personally I wouldnt bring back Yuko in osaekomi, but would absolutely in standing, I think in osaekomi there is an elemant of "setup time" needed to work on an escape, this can be done well before the wazari score time, but not easily before yuko would be scored.
Good point
@@Chadi I guess also the inverse of "setup time" is time to effectively establish control too, anyway, I also hate the direction it's going. Have been a competitive Judoka the last 15 years at least and have recently given up the competition because of the way the game is going... it took a 3 month trip to Japan and competing in a Japanese comp to realize that.
Man, the difference between wazari and ippon so trifling.
It begs the question, that Chadi had answered before, "Is Judo being watered down since its acceptance as an Olympic Sport?"
acompanho aqui do Brasil seu canal do youttube
osss BJJ
Can you do an analysis of Lee Won Hee's 2004 Olympic win? He got thrown for wazari by the athelete from Moldova; it wasn't a clean roll through. He came back to ippon the guy and win the whole event.
absolutely
true
Controversial take: do away with wazari-awasete-ippon. Ippon should be IPPON, not the cumulation of points.
I know that modern day judo is a lot different from judo back then. Atleast that’s what everyone says. But is it just judo’s competition rules that changed or has the actual judo curriculum changed ?
I think generally traditional martial-arts have become softer today. Just look at taekwondo (olympic style) also. It's a shame.
Modern taekwondo is a joke.
Judo has honestly become a joke now unfortunately
The constant changes in the rules destroyed judo, which practically ceased to be a martial art. Today, the closest thing to real judo is sambo.
Private vs. State (staatlich),
inbetween there is something like public law (öffentlich rechtlich).
The 70th were mighty. But were are no more in the 70th.
Bruce Lee, Muhammad Ali and Arnold Schwarzenegger they succeed Elvis and The Beatles
In Judo the 70 were good for the West.
And Japan had to answer.
The 'history' or 'significance' of an ippon is very simple.
An ippon is a clear pseudo killing of a partner in terms of nage waza meaning in the street, without gi nor tatami if the technique used in the dojo against a partner where utilised the result for 'uke', an attacker, would be death. Waza-ari signified an attacker would be more than half incapacitated thus two waza-ari results in certain total incapacity to further attack.
If we apply the original concept as outlined above, with some of todays 'ippon' scores we can see a vast difference in a pseudo kill and just a tumble.
It is now unwise to look at such things as kodokan judo in ALL aspects has been so diluted its now become not even a second rate form of wresting sport.
Its a great great shame but its not going to improve. 😢
You know, I had thought this for many years too but it seems like it’s not exactly the case. Old school Kodokan rules required two ippons or a “nihon” to win. I had recently learned that ippon via osaekomi was a concept borrowed and modified from western wrestling. Kano was trying to get judo into the education system and developed these rules as a way to increase that likelihood. Having said all that, the idea of ippon being a kill on the battlefield may or may not be true but it definitely makes sense.
no mat work today just throws, really
I do not agree on this. Back in the days there was almost no standard what score is what. They choose what they feel like. I have seen so many ippons from back in the days that just get ippon because they fly high through the air and would not even be a score today. I no this is not in the 70s but look at the ippons that nomura got in all his 3 olympic finals non of them would be ippon today.
Sadly today where I live there’s only a whisper and of judo in my area all rest is bjj and mma schools. Judo is non existent
Strict scoring would be great, but yuko and koka created and encouraged garbage technique, with lots and lots and lots and lots and LOTS of tactical penalty players who gave us something more like ballet than judo.
in judo happened whatever happened with karate Ractics and points more importand ! and loose the real thing !!!
Je partage complètement ton opinion sur ce sujet