Troubleshooting The Issues Of Hack N Tap Diesel Xj
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2023
- I'm on the fence about a NP242 I have, so I thought to keep things cheap I would Hack n Tap the NP231 in the meantime to finally give the Diesel XJ a double cardan rear.
Unfortunaily its become more expensive that I initially realised because the diesel XJ requires a very long rear drive shaft which must be custom built....
Thanks for watching.
Mike
/ @workshoptowilderness
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Jeep Spec:
1999 Jeep Cherokee XJ 2.5TD RHD.
Summer Tire - 35x12.50r15 BFG KM3's with 15x8 3.75" backspacing (-19 offset).
Winter Tire - Cooper Discoverer ST MAXX Por Studded 35x12.50r15 BFG KM3's with 15x8 3.75" backspacing (-19 offset).
Lift Front - RC 4.5" Coils and N2 Shocks (3" Coil Spacer).
Front Shock Bar Pin Eliminator.
Dana 30 High Pinion with Artec Industries Lower Control Arm Mounts with modified upper mount and modified Track Bar mount.
Front RC Control Arm Drop Bracket.
Ruff Stuff Short Arm Single Himes.
RC Extended Sway Bar Links.
Dana 30 Rock Crusher Diff Cover.
Ruff Stuff One Ton OTK Steering.
6" Lift Drop Pitman Arm.
Ruff Stuff Front and Center Frame Stiffeners.
Rear DIY Frame Stiffener and Rear Frame Tie in Kit.
6" x 2" Box Rocker replacement with Tube Slider.
Modified Factory Bumper with Side Sliders.
Rear Tow Hitch Tire Carrier that bolts into Rear Frame Tie in Kit.
Modified upper Shock Crossmember for Rear Shocks
Rear Axle Chrysler 8.25 29 Spline with modified High Clearance Shock Mounts.
Rear Shocks 6.5" Trailmasters.
Rear Leaf Springs 5.5" Rubicon Express
Rear RC Shackle Relocation Bracket.
Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines front and back.
Warrior 9500lb Winch.
Front Bumper - Ebay Custom Made. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Mike, the Grand Cherokee between 93-98 has a longer front driveshaft by almost 3 inches than the XJ. I have one in the rear of my XJ
Thanks for that info! I will have a look and see what it comes out at! Thanks for watching.
Lmao that awkward eye contact while cleaning your shaft 😂
Mike, I don't know anything about cars except where to put the fuel, but I reckon I could listen to you talk about how paint dries so entertaining are your presentation skills (and innuendo). Cheers for another cool upload Bro 👍
Haha well that's quite a compliment. I promise I wont make a video about how paint dies though. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
Although I have zero interest in drive shafts or jeeps the quality of your innuendo game is on point. I'm sure you'll find a shaft that's the perfect length to satisfy your needs.
Mark the drive shaft lengthwise.
On a lathe, overcut the pipe part with a chamfer on both sides.
Then turn a hissing piece that has a peg on both sides.
Weld high above the surface then straighten and turn over later.
If the part used is solid and the drive shaft is beveled longitudinally then there should be no significant imbalance.
That's how I would do it
That sounds like a skilled job, i'm not sure I could do it and I don't have access to a large enough lathe unfortunately. I will see if I can enlist a friend. Thanks for the information!
Thanks for watching.
You'll get there. Keep it up Mike. 👍
Hang in there Mike, love the videos.
Shiny is good what a professional at putting that glove on the shaft predator fan i see 👍🏻🏴
Harsh one, good luck i'm sure you'll find the right one soon, take care
Best channel on yt rn!
makes me want to work on my car..... but i cant fit under mine .....and i dont understand cars. so il just watch you do it instead lol
In case my other comment got deleted because I put the site where I got it from originally, I have a custom Tom Wood shaft that I used for a few years that's about 83cm compressed with 6" of splines, and a little over 93cm extended out 4" (so 2" of spline engagement at that point). Should be plenty long enough, and if it's too long you could just cut it down a little bit. Let me know if you're interested or want any pics.
Thanks for the info! I measured everything up and I looks like I would need 40" (100mm) fully extended to make this work. I could then take 1.5" or 2" off of the joke side and have some more to play with on the slip joint engagement. The current shaft is 91cm and its extended to its max and I still need at least 10cm more to make it work.
Thanks for watching and appreciate the info!
Wow, that's pretty long. I guess the diesel drivetrains are quite a bit shorter than the typical 4.0L + AW4 combos we have over here in the US. @@WorkshoptoWilderness
I just did the hack-n-tap to my xj. Same transfer case and I have the Dana 44 in the rear. I had a spare front drive shaft but it was too short and had to have it extended. 36” extended and 32.5” collapsed. Asked for 35.5” extended but it came out to 36” which is better. Was half the price of an Adam’s or Tom woods, yeah it’s not as heavy duty but it’s still strong. I was looking at the Tom Woods shafts but having mine extended was half the price.
Ah nice, that worked out well for you. This one I just bought is 36" fully extended. I think I need 40" fully extended to make this work. I could then shorten the Yoke by 2" and have 2" added to the shaft length to have enough engagement. I will check and see how much it costs to do...
Thanks for watching.
@@WorkshoptoWildernessus xj owners are always jealous of someone who has an xj with a Dana 44 ain't that right Mike? I know I am.
@@Jack-tx2ve yeah absolutely, those things are rare in Europe. You can find ZJ aliminium ones but not the old ones...
@@WorkshoptoWilderness I was looking at Toyota hi Lux pickup 2wd rear axles as a possible option. I think they are even 5 stud with the same pcd. Obviously it would probably be a case of cutting spring perches off etc.
Could you build your own drive shaft? I mean surely its just a tube with the end bits welded on ? The tricky part is the dynamic balancing, perhaps the coarse adjustment could be done by static balancing the shaft between centres in the same way model aircraft propellers are balanced (thats my hobby so its my frame of reference) and then getting a pro to do the last bit. Im just guessing at ideas though.
I would love to try! I think it would be really satisficing. I would need a lathe to do the job and I cant seem to find anyone with anything big enough. I will keep hunting, I have the materials so that's a start.
Thanks for watching and for the info.
G'day Mike, I am just about to get my XJ spicer front drive shaft extended to suit the Dana 44 and NP242 in my XJ. It costs $600 AUD to get it fabbed and balanced here in Perth, Western Australia.
I have a spare front spicer drive shaft from a 2001 Jeep XJ Cherokee petrol with an NP242. You can have the shaft for free.
If you have the measurements, I could get it extended for you too. Cheers mate.
First off that's extremely generous with regards to the shaft. I'm still looking for one and it seems like 40" or 101cm is the length I'm after. Pretty long so a custom one is a must in this case.
How long was the shaft you got made up out of curiosity? I might have a resource here to lengthen the one I have but if that falls through then I would be totally interested! Thanks for the comment and for watching
@@WorkshoptoWilderness It would be my pleasure. There is some play in the shaft, but it would be a useful spare to help your project and its a Spicer.
I am dropping my shaft off on Wednesday to be measured and extended, however I anticipate that it will be extended by about 2" or 5cm over the stock numbers for a 1998 NP242 AW4 4.0 front shaft. I won't be able to give you accurate measurements until later this week though.
Let me know what you think anyways. I would have to figure out what the cost of postage would be for you etc. But no rush.
It would be costly and heavy to send to you. But I also have a spare Dana 30 HP minus axles and carrier you can have if you cover freight. Amongst other spares.
Shiny is obviously good. Shinier is gooderer...
Great video, spot on with the shaft jokes and facial expressions 😂😂. Luckily not lifting mine so not as many issues with that (thanks restricted Norway 😢) yes 100% agreed on parts ordering. I have found a few suppliers in Germany renegade and one in France Euro 4x4 but most of my parts come out of America as well, at least structurally body panels and floor plating . Quadratech and desert rat or 4wheel parts. But shipping out of the US has gotten very exspensive and then the import tax on top😢😢. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos👍👍. By the way mine passed EU control flying colors🥳 but has developed one oil leak and believe its camshaft seal between trans adapter and block😢 do you know if its an o-ring or sealent there ? Old motor had nothing there when i stripped it down. Another question any ideas what longer lug nut studs would work on the original hubs? I cant find the correct lug nuts its not 1/2x 20 or the 14x 1.50 like i was told. Even jeep no longer carries correct one . Running stock aluminum Cherokee rims but summer wheel was off a wrangler when i bought it and only 5 threads held rims on so you can imagine what lug nuts are looking like😱
Mike, what shaft is that that came off the XJ? I have an M57 in my XJ with AW4 & 242, the Tacse sits 45mm further forward than it should/did with the 4.0.
Never seen a factory double-cardan rear driveshaft....
It's a no SYE double cardan shaft. They have a slip yoke style end on them. I've butchered it now and turned it into a hack n tap 42" drive shaft.
IMHO (but not tested yet) Keep your 242. The ratios between NP231 and 242 are identical!! pure fact. No difference between the two what so ever, beyond having full time/Awd option in the 242.. From what I understand is the full time/Awd of the 242 is more for getting "to" trail on "NOT deep" snow and icy roads.... It is mostly for driving when random wet slippery road and wet leaves situations are more liable to pop up when in route on the highway. For long distance but pretty much all slippery stuff.. from deeper snow, mud harder; that it is what 4wheel high or low is for, same as any other Jeep. Is that how you use your 242?
Your difference is the diesel torque wanting to rear steer you swinging your rear end out around you in random slippery snow,/wet spots on roads mostly no slick enough for 4wheel high use beyond those random spots. This is where the Full Time/Awd is your friend... , these random slick spots that pop up out of nowhere when you least expect it between miles of road where you should not be in 4wd High. Been there done that in a non diesel for that matter....
THIS is why to KEEP the 242. In theory the front wheels also having some grab while in Full Time/Awd helps manage this rear steer in wet corners, curves, random snow/ice in shade etc, is way I am looking at the benefit of 242 (and others report to be their experience). Have you found this to be true as well?
Anyway; this is why I am going to a 242 in my diesel TJ. TJ with my OM617 diesel's torque really tries to rear steer me. Much much more than my previous TJ without diesel. Though with longer wheel base your XJ likely has less of the rear wanting to swing out away from you in the random slickies.. still though betting the diesel torque is trying too, and it will come into play more often and sooner than your previous petrol XJ, when in those sneaky slippery spots that randomly come up on you.
PS-there is now Heavy Duty SYE kits (which you likely know) for the 242 that are NOT hack-n-tap type. (heavy duty shaft and new rear housing) Im going HnT only cause the cost saving is what allowed me funds to buy the 242 in the first place.
If you want even lower gears in real 4wd. you can use a Rubicon T-case with 4:1 but you loose your full time/Awd or you can put a doubler before the T-case. Any of the doublers that can go infront of a NP231 should also fit fine infront of 242. Not sure if a person should use the doubler while in Full Time/AWD though. I am guessing not.
I could brobably find you a grand cherokee shaft if you still looking, i can get one from pull a part, if grand cherokee one would work.
PS- any driveline shop can build you a new shaft.... or just retube your existing one to any custom length you want. Not sure your home country.... but judging by your house.. its not 3rd world so would think there has to be drive line shops in your area. Thus no need to ship something from US.. that is overkill IMHO.
In this case size matters but not everyone has a good shaft 😅.
how much did you cut off your shaft? Max is 1.25 inch of splines remaining if I understand right.. yours looks to be not cut much. Maybe cut it again now that you have pilot hole to work with? If your new driveshaft can handle the addition distance that is.
is it not possible to get a section cut out of the spare and extend the new one ? friend with a large lathe can balance it failing that a Disco one with the ends cut and swapped? i had the same issue when i lifted my pajero but was able to reuse a fb market disco shaft
I guess its possible if I can find someone with a large lathe and the skills to use it. The local shop I asked said they would have to send it to Germany and it would cost in the region of 5000kr... so I think a firend with a lathe is a better option!
Thanks for watching.
Mike I have stock standard XJ 4ltr in Perth if any good to you.
Could you give any info on the 2.1 Renault deisel that came in the XJ n the US ?
I found the ne but know nothing about deisel and the owner thinks the engine might be seized, what should I check first?
What length do you need exactly for
The rear….
40" would do it.
Me thinks sick puppy syndrome 🤣
How much did you cut from the transfer case side?? And whyy? Does it has to be a certain length for it to work?
You don't want the shaft to be too long or it just puts more stress on the output bearing. I cut off about 2" on mine but then I ended up building a custom 42" driveshaft so it all depends on your setup.
5:30
What diesel did you plant into her?
ohhhhh.. found it... you lucky dog. your's is factory diesel not available in US.
How long does it has to be?
40"- 41"
@@WorkshoptoWilderness only found 85cm :(
Thats what she said....just after breaking up with me...😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
no matter what SYE thingy you put on "any" Tcase ..... you have to do longer rear driveline. Thus your not out anything doing the SYE beyond..... realizing you were not fully informed at first.
To answer all the comments at once. There is no driveline shop up here and the shaft needs to be sent to Germany to be built and balanced which is more expensive than getting one from the USA. I needed a shaft 41" long so I built my own at home which works fine with no vibrations as of yet. I will send it for a proper balancing at some stage or buy a completed replacement from the US when I can afford it.
@@WorkshoptoWilderness little more research and learned your way way way out further than I was assuming. My apologies..
An alternative you might consider that is much cheaper to ship is a driveshaft balance ring. Particularly since your finding your fabri-crafted shaft is doing sorta OK for you. Only one company makes balance rings for driveshafts that I know of (lots of them for over the rode wheels.. ) they do have an old video here on youtube so that may help you find them (Balance Masters)
th-cam.com/video/L0U5fzPuX4o/w-d-xo.html
No apology needed! I didn't know what a driveshaft ring was so that's something I will take a look at. Appreciate the link and info. With regards to your info on the NP242, I m interested in 4wd full time for ice roads in the winter. Is it worth it in your opinion? Would I notice less performance off road or in deep snow for example or is it just like an NP231 in performance apart from the extra option of 4wd full time?
Many thanks!
@@WorkshoptoWilderness Some Cherokee's actually came with the 242. Surprised your diesel did not. In fact 99% of the ones you find from a wrecking yard will be from a Grand Cherokee with auto tranny. If your cherokee is newer than 1995.. get one from after 95 cherokee thru around 2006?- oh and get the interior vehicle shift stuff... from in/under the console too. they are slightly different. If you have not done so already.. IMHO get a cable shifter for T-case. Mine is a B&M cable I originally got for my NP231... but luckily box indicates it is for both 231 and 242.
NP242 ratios are EXACTLY same as NP231. Same gear parts even. Some say 242 is tiny weaker.. others who have wheeled them for years say bull crap. It is said the whole 242 is about 1" longer rearward. your hack-n-tap will swap over to it too. Mine is a 2003 T-case. it has the shorter of the rear tail housings which helps a little. Ohhhh.. but if your engine computer needs input signal from trans speedo.... then you want a 242 that has matching speed sensor to that plug. If ECU does not need it. you might loose out on a dash signal indicator showing what Mode you are in... (just look down at lever instead) and your speedometer. Im just going to use a GPS speedo.
If you have 5speed you will need to crack open the 242.. dismantle it , same for your NP231- swap the trans input shaft from 231 into the 242 so it will mate to the 5speed (one matching the manual trans have longer splines in the shaft internally.) or search one out and buy one.. which I am doing so can sell complete 231 to defray cost. I can give more detail on what to look for in input shat if that is your interest... there is a few factors to matchup right)
While you are in their refresh it with rebuild kit??? If doing that plan ahead though and get a used set of blind hole bearing pullers. you will need that. Look up the bearing sizes in the 242 so you know the puller has the right size in the kit. or fab up something. Some videos are on U-tube about rebuilding them that give options. Ohhhh. and if your going to pull the 242 apart for that.... get a used 6 gear planetary low range unit from a 231, 241, or 242 around same year of the 242 to add a little beef to it and put that inside instead (what 242 you find will likely have 3 gear planetary) the 3 extra planet gears puts more gear surface on the main shaft, which helps shaft survive little more abuse. Does NOT change low ratio., just adds little strength. One can go add lot more beef by swapping in parts from a 242 HD (heavyduty) or out of a hummer.. or the now available 242 heavyduty short shaft SYE upgrade (which can be bought wth new CV drive shaft). 242 HD and /or the Tom Woods SYE kit have stronger /thicker main shaft at the output end . 242 HD also have wider chains. Don't think your nor my diesel puts out enough to really need that much more Heavy Duty-ness of a main shaft compared to those who have them behind V8's etc. but that is just my opinion.
Am personally calling this swapping in of the 6 planetary set, only a "Medium" Duty upgrade.. aka- step beween OEM and the Heavy Duty 242 version . YMMV
It’s not the length of the shaft that matters… It’s the diameter🫣🫦
fact!