Take a look at two ways to grind a taper. The first way is a combo Master Grind / sine plate on a surface grinder and the second is using an OD grinder. Enjoy Don Bailey www.subtool.com
its people like you that made this country the Ace in manufacturing, knowledge along with wisdom come with age, but attitude and sense of pride in work comes with ethics and just being a good fellow all around..
Its so cool learning from you im a hobbyist from Austria/Europe and before i knew your channel grinding wasn't my favorite work but watching your explanations regularly changed it completely i have now several ID and OD Toolpost Grinder for my big lathe and am planning to buy a surface grinder in the near future and that all because of your grinding virus that got me 😁😎👍 Thanx a lot 👍 you're a real master in what you do man can feel that...and very sympathetic.
I'm from Bulgaria... I didn't know that there were any american tool makers left ... thank you for your excellent, thorough videos !!! I wish that I had grown up with youtube and you !
A friend of mine has a CNC converted mill and a NOS retrofit spindle for a Deckel FP4 NC on it. It uses a proprietary discontinued 7/24 taper spindle and the OEM quoted him 500-900$ each for the remaining tool holders in their inventory. They went on at length to describe how "only we can machine new tool holders cause we're almighty geniuses and any peasant trying to do it themselves will blow up their shop". I came to the conclusion that you coumd rough out tool holder blanks on a CNC lathe and then chuck them up in a spindexer on a surface grinder but it seemed to sketchy to try. But now i know it will work and since the guy my friend shares his shop with has a surface grinder and a crankshaft balancer this should prove great for specialty tool holders
Don, I like your comment that you like making sparks, it also gives an opportunity to learn the type of sparks given by the ground material, info you can use to identify materials by grinding in the future.
I like the way you explained. Grinding a tapper on a surface grinder needs a lot of experience and accurate attachments. The best part of all your explanation is "lapping the center's" both side. But I think their will be some ovality while grinding tapper on a surface grinder.
Nice work. Like you say in the machine shop there is always several ways of doing things. Often depends on what machines are available. I always have a tube of LibriPlate grease handy and put a dab in the centers to make the part run smooth and keep the gritty water out. I also put a squirt on the surface to be ground, surface or cylindrical, and that really helps to see the wheel sneaking up on it.
I like this guy. This kind of man is why I started my machining career. He is cool and makes machining fun like an inventor. I wanted to be an inventor. But after 20 years of machining and CNC machining I cant even find a job that will pay me what I made when I started my trade. Thanks for the inspiration.
Don, I love your video's...! Very enlightening, very useful. I just acquired a Harig 618 autostep and I'm looking for ways to maximize using it. Thanks very much....!
Another outstanding video, Don. Ditto on the lapping request. General lapping video would also be instructive. Thanks for your generous contribution to my education.
Russell Thornton We will release a video on How to lap a center on 6-30-2015. We also have a video on Hand lapping here th-cam.com/video/ATG_UYYfx7w/w-d-xo.html
I learn so much watching these videos. Thanks SO much for doing them and sharing your knowledge and experience with me and the others that enjoy these videos.
Lapping by definition is stock removal with loose particles whereas grinding is with bound particles such as in a sand stone or an artificial wheel. For the rest I find it interesting to watch.
I second the question about the female counterpart. Requesting a video on that. Don, thanks for all your efforts. I have learned a lot from you. keep up the good work.
You, sir, are an excellent instructor! Your videos are always so informative and well made. One question: What is causing that annoying hum in the audio? Sometimes it seems to come and go with the camera zoom. Great camera work Glen!
Fantasticos videos para aprender sobre estas maquinas.. Actualmente trabajo en una empresa (TRM international UK), que actualiza y automatiza con controles de movimiento este tipo de maquinas, las conviete en mas seguras y hace el trabajo aun mas perfecto. Gracias por sus videos..
Don, Since your taper is obviously off center when you start grinding and it was presumably not when the part was originally made (between centers?) the center and the threaded portion may be more likely to have moved during hardening than the tapered portion. Perhaps you should consider recentering the center and threads before grinding the hardened taper. With all due respect to your immensely greater experience to mine. :)
You often mention the importance of lapping the centers and doing it accuretly but I don't think you have done a video on just how that is done. I would like to see how, so how about a video on that? Would you take a MT reamer and clean that bore up a bit to get a better contact pattern?
Thanks Don, I use a precision tool post grinder and get my parts equal or better than what you showed. It's about knowing your tools. After you stoned the chuck why didn't you wipe or blow it off?
Don, you forgot about the taper attachment on a lathe......do they still make manual lathes with a taper attachment? Probably have to call Index to get one special ordered.
Mery Christmas ! I am having problem machining 6" long O1 steel I use 9mm OD shaft I need to machine 2.5 " long at 8mm OD then the rest will be 5mm OD I have tried fallow rest but It didn't work It's a mess and the fallow rest stop each time with different diameter and need to re adjust and still giving me .004 TIR I need that shaft to be true within .001 or less The last thing I am thinking of is using grinder fix it on my AXA tool holder and frind .002 each pass to prevent flex till I get the ODs I need ! Any help will be appreciate itThank you Oz
Don, When you put your part into the V-Block of the spin fixture, did you indicate it in? It appeared that the sparks were coming off in an uneven pattern while you were turning the crank of the fixture during the grinding process. david
What exactly are the circumstances where you'd want to use a half vs. a full center? I enjoy your vids Don, thanks for sharing the wealth with us young bucks :) You guys are hard to find in the wild haha Also I love that your camera man's name is Glen; it's like you're talking to me haha
+Полиграфович You have to use a half center if the part is smaller a smaller diameter than the center. The center you use has to be small enough to fit the part correctly
Grinding a taper is a hassle on an OD grinder, especially when the machines tailstock has worn down a bit. Sure you can get one part, but if the next part is not exactly the same length as the previous while sitting between the centers, it will be at a different angle due to the tailstock not pointing straight due to wear. Also, the other issue is that when you don't have a master to take readings from or don't have the mating part to check the fit with. On some long parts that have a straight section I've just adjusted table travel to the straight portion, clamped a sine bar on the table and then adjusted my angle to the sine bar to get the required angle, but sometimes even that is not possible. So I'm kind of curious on how would you measure that your taper is correct when you don't have a master for comparison or a mating part to check fit with.
Hello Don, love your videos and find them very interesting. Here is a challenge for you ; How to machine a 6 inch radius curve on the end of a 2 inch diameter bar to make a model railway engine" Buffer" face? Geoff in UK.
What happens if you arent centered directly under the wheel. Seems to me you would have issues with the angle being off. Maybe your grinder has that 0 point?
good video, thanks for showing us how the part went between centres on the o d grinder, just wishede you had shown us how the "turning fixture" takes the part, you jump through some of the basic bits (a real shame)- esp. for us beginners.
17:31 minutes in to the video, I understand your measuring how parallel the taper is in the longitudinal direction but I don't understand what you mean by a couple tenths What are the tenths a tenth of? Is the tenth you speak of a tenth of 1000th of 1'', in other words are you saying 100th of 1''? Do you mean couple 0.000010''?
+richard westerfield Yes of course, that's how the initial steel part was cut with a taper before heat treat so he just had a few finish passes, vs grinding a cylinder down to a taper which would take a lot of time comparably.
its people like you that made this country the Ace in manufacturing, knowledge along with wisdom come with age, but attitude and sense of pride in work comes with ethics and just being a good fellow all around..
sam terian Thank you for the kind words Sam. Everyone is doing their part.
I would pay 50 grand to shadow this man for a month in a machine shop. Thank you so much for all these videos
Wow, thanks!
Glen's videos are getting better. Nice job catching little things like indicator showing real measurements. Don's content is good, as always.
Man I love these videos... please don't stop!
Its so cool learning from you im a hobbyist from Austria/Europe and before i knew your channel grinding wasn't my favorite work but watching your explanations regularly changed it completely i have now several ID and OD Toolpost Grinder for my big lathe and am planning to buy a surface grinder in the near future and that all because of your grinding virus that got me 😁😎👍
Thanx a lot 👍 you're a real master in what you do man can feel that...and very sympathetic.
Thank you wolfie
I don't know who Glenn is but he is a lucky guy to have such wisdom imparted on him. Hope he is paying attention!
I'm from Bulgaria... I didn't know that there were any american tool makers left ... thank you for your excellent, thorough videos !!! I wish that I had grown up with youtube and you !
Where in Bulgaria?I'm moving there with my wife.She's from Dobrich but we are moving to Varna and I hope to put together a small shop for myself.
A friend of mine has a CNC converted mill and a NOS retrofit spindle for a Deckel FP4 NC on it. It uses a proprietary discontinued 7/24 taper spindle and the OEM quoted him 500-900$ each for the remaining tool holders in their inventory. They went on at length to describe how "only we can machine new tool holders cause we're almighty geniuses and any peasant trying to do it themselves will blow up their shop". I came to the conclusion that you coumd rough out tool holder blanks on a CNC lathe and then chuck them up in a spindexer on a surface grinder but it seemed to sketchy to try. But now i know it will work and since the guy my friend shares his shop with has a surface grinder and a crankshaft balancer this should prove great for specialty tool holders
I hope it works out for you. Thank you for watching.
Thanks for taking the time to make a great video. Grinding is something I haven't done a lot of in my machining career.
You're welcome! Hopefully you were able to learn something new :)
Don, I like your comment that you like making sparks, it also gives an opportunity to learn the type of sparks given by the ground material, info you can use to identify materials by grinding in the future.
Good video, as a Toolmaker myself I must say it's an extremely skilled and challenging trade
Absolutely!
It's good to see someone that looks after the equipment. BC
Thank you for watching!
Love the master grind system, its on my list. Great vid as always Don.
+Shadon HKW I use one for grinding of set punches
finally a youtube video by a true toolmaker they are so hard to find!!!
We try! Thanks for watching!
I like the way you explained. Grinding a tapper on a surface grinder needs a lot of experience and accurate attachments. The best part of all your explanation is "lapping the center's" both side. But I think their will be some ovality while grinding tapper on a surface grinder.
Nice work. Like you say in the machine shop there is always several ways of doing things. Often depends on what machines are available. I always have a tube of LibriPlate grease handy and put a dab in the centers to make the part run smooth and keep the gritty water out. I also put a squirt on the surface to be ground, surface or cylindrical, and that really helps to see the wheel sneaking up on it.
Thanks for watching, great input.
Great video Don keep them coming.!
I like this guy. This kind of man is why I started my machining career. He is cool and makes machining fun like an inventor. I wanted to be an inventor. But after 20 years of machining and CNC machining I cant even find a job that will pay me what I made when I started my trade. Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks a lot for that video, you learn me the technique on the surface grinder for part like that.
And really love the new intro ;)
Don, I love your video's...! Very enlightening, very useful. I just acquired a Harig 618 autostep and I'm looking for ways to maximize using it. Thanks very much....!
I am a Surface Grinder Operator 6 years experince. I know all grinding formation from EXAS PHILIPPINES INCORPORATED, CEBU
Another outstanding video, Don. Ditto on the lapping request. General lapping video would also be instructive. Thanks for your generous contribution to my education.
Russell Thornton We will release a video on How to lap a center on 6-30-2015. We also have a video on Hand lapping here th-cam.com/video/ATG_UYYfx7w/w-d-xo.html
I learn so much watching these videos. Thanks SO much for doing them and sharing your knowledge and experience with me and the others that enjoy these videos.
I'm glad to be able to help, thanks again for watching!
awesome videos you have. sure would love to work with guys like you. love to learn from people in the trade
Stop by and fill out an application. Thank you for watching.
Your awesome Mr. Don Bailey, wish I could work for you. I would learn a lot.
Great video! Thanks!
Great video! Thanks.
Lapping by definition is stock removal with loose particles whereas grinding is with bound particles such as in a sand stone or an artificial wheel. For the rest I find it interesting to watch.
I second the question about the female counterpart. Requesting a video on that.
Don, thanks for all your efforts. I have learned a lot from you. keep up the good work.
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Great video, thanks
Ah, prusian blue! Don, you're a classy fellow.
Great video, AND the intro music's better too!
You, sir, are an excellent instructor! Your videos are always so informative and well made. One question: What is causing that annoying hum in the audio? Sometimes it seems to come and go with the camera zoom. Great camera work Glen!
Fantasticos videos para aprender sobre estas maquinas.. Actualmente trabajo en una empresa (TRM international UK), que actualiza y automatiza con controles de movimiento este tipo de maquinas, las conviete en mas seguras y hace el trabajo aun mas perfecto. Gracias por sus videos..
Don, Since your taper is obviously off center when you start grinding and it was presumably not when the part was originally made (between centers?) the center and the threaded portion may be more likely to have moved during hardening than the tapered portion. Perhaps you should consider recentering the center and threads before grinding the hardened taper. With all due respect to your immensely greater experience to mine. :)
You often mention the importance of lapping the centers and doing it accuretly but I don't think you have done a video on just how that is done. I would like to see how, so how about a video on that? Would you take a MT reamer and clean that bore up a bit to get a better contact pattern?
The bore will be hardened. You'd just wreck a reamer in it. I think it'd need to be reground.
I know this is a 5 year comment but I know someone else will be looking for the video too. Here is it! th-cam.com/video/Zf5rC7SBevI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!
Thanks Don,
I use a precision tool post grinder and get my parts equal or better than what you showed. It's about knowing your tools. After you stoned the chuck why didn't you wipe or blow it off?
Could you tell/show us the process of crush dressing grinding wheels?
Kinda funny he showed a toolpost grinder,just bought a Myford Super7 and the fellow threw in a toolpost grinder(and lots of other stuff!)
Don, you forgot about the taper attachment on a lathe......do they still make manual lathes with a taper attachment?
Probably have to call Index to get one special ordered.
thanks
You can also do it in a Jig grinder.
Mery Christmas ! I am having problem machining 6" long O1 steel I use 9mm OD shaft I need to machine 2.5 " long at 8mm OD then the rest will be 5mm OD I have tried fallow rest but It didn't work It's a mess and the fallow rest stop each time with different diameter and need to re adjust and still giving me .004 TIR I need that shaft to be true within .001 or less The last thing I am thinking of is using grinder fix it on my AXA tool holder and frind .002 each pass to prevent flex till I get the ODs I need ! Any help will be appreciate itThank you Oz
Thank you for your great videos!!
Any video on making an inside Morse taper?
I want to make a Bench Mill spindle and i am looking around.
you can buy an i.d. morse taper with a straight o.d. sleeve cheap. just press it into your spindle.thats how i fixed a lathe tailstock.
look in the mcmaster carr catalog.
You'd never do this job on that floppy hand cranked gadget when you have a cylindrical grinder sitting there.
Don,
When you put your part into the V-Block of the spin fixture, did you indicate it in? It appeared that the sparks were coming off in an uneven pattern while you were turning the crank of the fixture during the grinding process.
david
Yes, we did indicate it.
Wow how much Prussian blue did you use?
What exactly are the circumstances where you'd want to use a half vs. a full center? I enjoy your vids Don, thanks for sharing the wealth with us young bucks :) You guys are hard to find in the wild haha
Also I love that your camera man's name is Glen; it's like you're talking to me haha
+Полиграфович You have to use a half center if the part is smaller a smaller diameter than the center. The center you use has to be small enough to fit the part correctly
Rotate the wheel guard for clearance.
Grinding a taper is a hassle on an OD grinder, especially when the machines tailstock has worn down a bit. Sure you can get one part, but if the next part is not exactly the same length as the previous while sitting between the centers, it will be at a different angle due to the tailstock not pointing straight due to wear.
Also, the other issue is that when you don't have a master to take readings from or don't have the mating part to check the fit with. On some long parts that have a straight section I've just adjusted table travel to the straight portion, clamped a sine bar on the table and then adjusted my angle to the sine bar to get the required angle, but sometimes even that is not possible.
So I'm kind of curious on how would you measure that your taper is correct when you don't have a master for comparison or a mating part to check fit with.
Jaakko Fagerlund
Easy.
Check it on a sine plate.
Hello Don, love your videos and find them very interesting. Here is a challenge for you ; How to machine a 6 inch radius curve on the end of a 2 inch diameter bar to make a model railway engine" Buffer" face? Geoff in UK.
Noted! Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks again for watching.
What happens if you arent centered directly under the wheel. Seems to me you would have issues with the angle being off. Maybe your grinder has that 0 point?
good video, thanks for showing us how the part went between centres on the o d grinder, just wishede you had shown us how the "turning fixture" takes the part, you jump through some of the basic bits (a real shame)- esp. for us beginners.
andy van Bear with us Andy , it is sometimes hard to put everything in one video. Thanks for watching and we will try to do better in future episodes.
👍🏻
Hello Don,
how do you grind the female part of the Morse taper?
Greetings from Germany
Max
You would use an ID grinder.
17:31 minutes in to the video,
I understand your measuring how parallel the taper is in the longitudinal direction but I don't understand what you mean by a couple tenths
What are the tenths a tenth of?
Is the tenth you speak of a tenth of 1000th of 1'', in other words are you saying 100th of 1''?
Do you mean couple 0.000010''?
could you cut a #2 Morse taper on a lathe ?
thank you
Richard
+richard westerfield Yes of course, that's how the initial steel part was cut with a taper before heat treat so he just had a few finish passes, vs grinding a cylinder down to a taper which would take a lot of time comparably.
why don't you have way covers on the grinder ,,, just curious not a machinist
i liked the old intro...
Jeff Tiedeken What don't you like about the new intro Jeff?We are always looking to improve.
20:35 Oh yeah much better
Why grind it? I cut mine on my lathe.
Randerz Anderson It was cut on a lathe then it was hardened.
Yo kesel to mbah nak mbok puter2 go tangan ngono.. gowo gonku kene tak kerjani karo mesin cilinder grinding beres..
I spent over 5 hundred dollars to purchase the motor from you so I don't have to crank and look at you the owner too cheap to buy one ?
sam terian Sam, we use them all over the shop. I am just not using one here.
Go back to the old intro