How To Make Two Accurate Moves On A Bridgeport Without Using A DRO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, we head back to the Bridgeport to do some drilling without using our DRO. We’ll be drilling two holes and using gage blocks to accurately make two moves; one on the X-axis and one on the Y-axis. As it turns out, our problem didn’t lie in avoiding the use of the DRO, but something much simpler.
Many asked how we sharpen our drills here after our last video, so we're going to show you! Here at Suburban Tool, we use a Darex SP2500 to keep our cutting tools in tip-top shape. We've had this machine for years and it's still going strong (with proper maintenance of course).
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Don- Posting a 'goof' video like this is a testament to your integrity as a teacher and machinist. A older machinist once told me "Chasing accuracy is not for the timid for nothing will humble you faster..." Awesome video as always- I only wished I worked for a boss like you-
That's a great piece of advice to live by. Thanks for sharing!
It took guts to show the screw up. Having learned the reason, I wish you had gone back and tried again.
loved it! i was not expecting that lesson. its nice to see that these things can happen to any of us.
We all make mistakes, the best thing you can do is learn from them.
Not sure if it was intentional but I really enjoyed the plot twist about ten minutes in. I'm kind of a hack when it comes to these t-slot gadgets but I think I know what happened, well 50/50 anyways........ If the soap under the fingernails trick really works, then it is one of the best tips of all time!
I was wrong. I thought it was the other thing. I didn't notice your pocket getting caught.
I learned about long sleeves in the shop with a good scare on a 9" South Bend lathe at about fourteen years old; still remember the lesson nearly four decades later...
Same shop taught me to never leave the crank for the knee on a mill engaged - pull off and flip over when not in use.
So many ways to have a "learning experience", always good when just the ego gets hurt
Great Video as always Don! I already knew all this, but I just love watching because the shop and equipment is so clean. Nothing like seeing a vertical mill with zero drill/mill marks in the table!
flack youe I know this is over a year old but I just felt obligated to mention this is probly the single most underrated comment on TH-cam lol
That is my dream to one day own a mill that has a table that has not been molested by a drill or mill.
At 64 years old I have learnt more in the last few minutes than the last 40 years thanks from down under
Man oh man, Don dropping the knowledge bombs all over the place. If that soap trick works with lapping compound as well as it does with grease this will have been a life changing lesson.
Thank you so very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to produce these videos, free of charge. The best things in life are cheap indeed.
You're welcome, thanks for watching.
That was interesting. I never expected the outcome though. Keep on keeping on.
I learn more from your mistakes than watching all the successes. The bar of soap trick is gold, thank you!
Only once have I needed to be taught about loose clothing. Started the day all fresh n pressed, cutting a big S.S jam nut thread leaning over watching and hand on the tool post and slide handle. The front of my shirt had untucked and got caught in the leadscrew got pinned to the carriage and it ripped my shirt clean off me. Had a few wierd looks the rest of the day as i reassembled the shirt using zip ties on the sleeves and down the back. I did finish the cut with no shirt on.
Don, great to see you and Glen back in the saddle. I have told you before how much I appreciate your tutorials. This one is exceptional. There are times when I screw up. . . To see a professional have difficulty is encouraging to those of us who are fraught with mediocrity.
We're all human and we all make mistakes. Glad you enjoy the videos, thanks again for watching!
Definitely a good lesson Don! We had a person running a drill press and a stringer snagged their sweatshirt, wrapped their arms around the drill and broke both of their collar bones. That was a hard lesson learned!
Wow, sounds like it. It's stories like this that remind us how important proper shop safety is. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for your comment!
Thank you very much for replying. I actually went back the whole way again and fogured it. Thamk you from Cork, Ireland.
I like to blue up the part, and scribe targets before center drilling. You can easily see .023”
These are such good videos.
This is the story of my life, one little detail fucks it all up..
Hi Don, Great video, I had the same problem yesterday. Fortunately I had my DRO on and seen the table had moved. Thanks and say hi to Glenn. M.K.S.
DRO saves the day! Glad you caught your mistake. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching.
Suburban is top shelf tooling!expensive!but worth the money...I clear the chip reaming lil higher rpm for slip fit...I push at lower rpm for press fit using the same reamer.
I really am enjoying your Bridgeport lessons.
I love the humble vid.i think so much more of suburban. toolsmakers ARE gentlemen.cheers thx so much.
Don, I wish my Dad had taken the time (and I was ready to pay attention) to learn the trade from him. Thank you for these great lessons!
You're welcome, and thank you for watching! I very much appreciate our viewers, I do this for you guys.
The time must be made available first. The interest will be developed and naturally follows.
You can always learn! Everything in regards to machining I have learned from youtube/forums/word of mouth. The info is out there if you want to put the time in to take it all in!
Like our machining class professor told me when I had a discussion with him about my micromachining project for my thesis he told that the only way forward in machining is making mistakes, finding them and learning from them! The next day it made 100% sense when I started making a pile of 0.15mm drills on the shelf over my lathe...I was wrong and that was not the way to do it!
And in using that method i would suggest to tap only on the stock of the square where it is clamped, not to tap on the blade and transfer the impact through the blade/ stock joint. Otherwise your square won't be.
And if you are planning to tap the workpiece against the square you need the square clamped to the table at two points rather than one. I was expecting you to realise that you'd got the error because you'd trapped the square out of alignment when tapping the workpiece in the second location. You only verified the square stayed straight in the first setup not in the second. When i saw you tap it in and not re verify squatters i was expecting the error. I'm still of the view that this is more likely the source of error than that you moved a locked-down table by snagging your pocket. If you'd snagged it hard enough to move the table 20 thou against the table locks, you'd have ripped your pocket (or if not, then it would have jerked you so hard that rechecking your setup might have been am obvious next step. If it wasn't that serious then i doubt that add your true source of error.
Good to see you back Glen.
Glenn is glad to be back as well.
A nice (and unexpected) safety lesson at the very end. I've seen clothing (and ring and wristwatch) mishaps in a machine shop. Very scary. Many thanks, Don, for another enjoyable video.
You're very welcome. Many thanks for returning to watch them! We really appreciate it here.
Great video! Everything (...well, almost all things) modern is derived from the lessons of the past and it's good to know why things are the way they are.
Thank you for watching.
Fantastic video, thank you. I wish more people posted their process, mistakes and all, like this. I learned more from this video than countless hours of sanitized clips of people doing things perfectly.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and were able to learn something. Thanks for the feedback, we really appreciate it.
My instructor used to always use your videos. I think they are awesome. Pb&j.. thanks
Very helpful! Thank you for your expertise and humility!
Thank you for the time and expense you give, good to know everyone makes mistakes.
We're all human! Thanks for watching :)
This is an excellent video Don for two reasons. Firstly, obviously showing people how to use gage blocks for positioning but just as valuable was showing what can go wrong in spite of experience and best efforts. Personally, I dislike most shop coats that nearly all seem to made for people shaped like a pear so the the bottom half is flopping around and those damn pockets always get caught on things.
I wear old jeans and an extra long snuggish T-shirt over another T-shirt with bare arms and usually no gloves. I'd rather get spot burns from hot chips bouncing off me than get caught in a machine or have the pleasure of a 600 degree chips caught inside the wrist opening of a glove or up a sleeve. Its very easy to bump or snag the cross slide handle on a larger lathe with loose clothing where you have to lean over to see what you're doing. Messing up on a $3000 piece of stainless with 4 days work invested because of a pocket is not a feeling I want to experience.
These are all very good points. Minimizing places to snag on a machine is great not only for safety, but for the sake of quality of work as well. Function > fashion, eh? Thanks for the message.
Excellent video! it would be a humbling moment in many shops..I have found that making a mistake can be the best thing that happens to me.
class work ... !! top dollar.. greeting from Scandi da navia on the other side of the river! !
Those gauge blocks are probably more expensive that my DRO
Glenn is so agreeable!
Great format. Thank you Don.
Started with same type of shop coat. Got in trouble with pockets, removed all pockets. Sleeves were next problem. QUIT wearing shop coat ! Nice idea at first, but no good for sure.
Thanks for the videos !
It can quickly turn into more of a burden than a blessing. Thanks for sharing your experience, and thanks again for watching.
great as usual Don glad to see Glen back could u sometime make video on how to use a dro that same way thanks guys
Thanks for the response I run a horizontal boring Mill and unfortunately I've had issues with clothing getting caught in the spindle in the past and it's very scary....
Indeed, that is. I hope you didn't suffer any severe injuries. Be careful out there.
Thanks,as always I come away enlightened. I'll bet this will work with my 1940's Index model 40H as I don't have DRO or a Bridgeport. Thanks Again.
That's exactly the goal of this demonstration. Just make sure to lock your table down and watch your pockets ;) Thanks for the comment, and thanks again for watching!
I'm going to watch this again. I understand the blocks, but didn't catch how you located the spindle. How do you know where it is?
It doesn't matter really. He is just looking for incremental positioning of the holes, not for the first hole itself.
one of my favorites so far!
The reaming thing is interesting most gunsmith's who dont use high pressure coolant will remove the reamer every few thousands or so the remove chips from the reamer to avoid "rolling a chip" and often get finishes so good they need to rough up the chamber slightly with scotch bright.
I use Mighty Mags with travel indicators. You would have caught the movement. Got to watch out for backlash to!
errors are the best teacher!
You got that right.
1979 first mistake at the lathe as an apprentice... belt loop on my pants catches the cross dial as I turn and makes a minor cut in an otherwise perfect workpiece. The Q/A dept. sort of forgave me, but it took weeks before I stopped hearing remarks about it, but the embarrassment and the teasing worked... It never happened again :D
That's a tough lesson to learn, but it seems that it stuck with you! Thanks for the message, and thanks again for watching.
Thank you for showing me how to use a "manual DRO!" That mistake just makes me think more about the whole process.
You never know when you'll make a mistake, that's why they're called mistakes! It's always important to check yourself every once in a while.
Interesting way to do it. Using gage blocks like this to indicate reminds me of some of the older mills that had vernier scales mounted on the axis, or sometimes dial indicators with a tray for the gage blocks to offset the measurement. In this manner, a dial indicator with perhaps 2" of travel could be used to indicate accurately over a much longer length.
Here's an example of vernier scales on a wells-index mod 55 www.lathes.co.uk/index/img12.jpg
Here's an example of the gage blocks and dial indicator on a Deckel miller: www.lathes.co.uk/deckel/img20.gif
I agree 100%! We really appreciate them. Where did you get the small hammer at 2:37, or did you make it? You might have to start selling these.
Thanks for the video Don, great reminder!
You're welcome! Thanks again for watching!
OMG! You have to be so careful around this stuff! Just last night I was turning some parts on my 20" 1903 American Tool Works lathe. It has a clutch knob for long feed and cross feed. If you are not careful you can accidentally bump the power cross feed in When you do not want it. I ruined two pieces before I figured out what was happening. Fortunately the parts I was making were not expensive or hard to make. Thanks for showing us all the reality of machine shop work, Sometimes things just go south on you.
All the best!
Mike
Wow, that sure is an antique machine! Glad to hear you didn't mess up anything expensive. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching!
You are Just Great, I Love your videos , I´m your Numer one Fan THAK YOU VERY MUCH! God Bless you!
Thank you for the support and the kind message, it means a lot.
Awesome video boys. Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome, thanks again for watching! We truly appreciate your support.
Great point made and very intelligent way of making the point. Very entertaining too. When I first saw Glen at the beginning of the video I thought it was you with a wig. LOL
Haha, you never know! Thanks for the message!
I want to start off saying I love all your videos I’ve learned a lot. I do have a question why do use a Center drill over a spot drill? Thank you in Advance I look forward to your answer ROBERT from New York
About a year ago the maintenance man at my shop was repairing the motor on a Bridgeport type milling machine. He had gotten the machine back together and was standing on the mill table whilst reaching around to the off/on toggle switch to power up the machine spindle and it got him. He failed to remove a 2"o.d. two flute end mill from the tool holder in the spindle and it caught him and wrapped him up. He wasn't badly injured, some cuts and scrapes. A co-worker was walking by as this just started to happen and he him the E-stop quickly. The maintenance man lost the top half of his coveralls and his ego that day. The tool was going about 20 R.P.M.. Never underestimate the power of these small mills.
That's scary! It's always important to be careful. Even at 20 rpm, that machine is still very powerful. Thanks for sharing your story.
Never underestimate something designed by a Scandinavian in Murica... Never underestimate the love to manflesh from 2 rad/s when Murica... ( did it say made in Murica or made by Abom? on the tooling? ? these are insane quality )
They have more torque at lower RPM. Gearing. That means they won’t stop!!
A very helpful video. Thanks!
You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
This is an awesome piece of info.
Thank you for your kind remarks and thank you for watching.
You guys are great!
That's a really good lesson learned!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
thank you very much for that wonderful video
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
The problem seems to be that you insist on somehow using your left hand to change speed. This means that you are leaning all over the machine to do it ( while the spindle is running! ). You are lucky it was your pocket and not your sleeve.
Interesting method and cause of your issue.
Thanks!
Two questions:
first, if tapping in the square, should it be tapped on the block (which is the part clamped) rather than the blade, to avoid taking it out of square? This is what I was taught, and have always done, but you work to higher precision that I generally do.
Second, when using the gauge blocks as spacers, is there any advantage to lining the square with the machine axes? The hole positions on the pat should be the same no matter the alignment, as the gauge blocks are self squared to the part.
Thank you sir for your video. Your vartical milling which company? Iam working vertical milling
Hey Don loved the video. I would never ever use a small hammer to tap the part in place with the setup you had.
why not use a hammer ? It's a brass faced hammer ... will not damage the square or the workpiece..
Werner Berry first tool we made at school the little hammer
Jesus christ how many times I have been commented on my black nails from my friends and acquaintances when I go for an afterwork beer. Great tip as always Don!
It's a lifesaver! You're welcome!
I was a mechanic for 26 years just retired. Never heard that tip. I could cry.
Funny thing is i've never seen a dust/ machinists coat with short sleeves !
After watching "lathe accident" on youtube i converted my coat to short sleeve myself !
I know a lot of guys use the apron style but find one here in Australia !
You make a good point. Thanks for sharing!
Wearing loose clothing, long neck-ties, or a wedding ring is just asking for trouble when milling.
If you catch your hand on a moving milling cutter then you might get a small cut, but if it snags on your wedding ring then it's going to pull your whole finger off.
If you are an older machinist and you can't take your wedding ring off any more, then wrap a plaster or some tape around your finger so the ring won't catch on anything.
I would have liked to see you go back and prove you're off by putting the Gage blocks back in and comparing to your first hole and what about setting your dials to zero or setting indicator on each axis to watch for motion
i always just used 1-2-3 blocks clamped to the table never had to worry about those suckers moving then all the rest falls right in place and yes those blocks he is using a set cost more than most dro lol but you also get movement of table when locking it down always
every machine is different
I think you should do it again
Yarr, Glenn da grinding pirate
Wow, Don you are human.
ok, so you positioned the part against the square and offset with gage blocks.. I got that.. but what did you do to place the drill/Quill in the proper location?
John Galt he did not move the quill or table. Set the blocks against the square and locate the hole and lock everything down. After the hole is drilled remove the gage blocks and secure part against the square and drill second hole.
hey Don, is there video of when you pocket got caught on the machine? I really enjoy watching your videos.
We've scoured every piece of footage from the shop and all of the shots we're too tight to catch it. I even made a comment when it happened that Glenn heard, but there's no captured audio of that either.
I'm glad you enjoy our videos. Thank you so much for the message, and thanks again for watching!
good lesson, but It gave me chills watching you tap on the brazed precision square.
Did you see the side of the hammer? I got to make a 15g brass hammer. That is bonkers
You'll get more accuracy with what we called a reaming end mill. I drill if not dead sharpened accurately will wander a bit and they next size drill will follow the first and the reamer will follow that.
By using a resharpened end mill that is a few thousands under the reamer size you will straighten out the hole by basicely boring it. Now your reamer will follow the straightened out hole and be more consistently accurate.
If you use a spot drill the size of the finished hole and go a little deeper, it will leave a nice true counterbore to guide the reamer.
I'm a complete newbie to machining, but one experience I'm already all too familiar with is
Measure, measure, cut... measure again.. scratch head wondering how it can possibly be out by that much.
Hopefully as I gain experience there will be less head scratching, but I feel less of a dunce seeing it still happens to a master on occasion.
Thank you for watching
Don, my DRO only gets me close and I am forced to use above methods. My SocSec will not not allow a full set of gage blocks. (Not funny after I paid in for >50 yrs.). make my own, measure what i made, then dial gage. thanks for showing me your thoughts. I think the backlash compensation is screwed up. DRO is not last word in my humble opinion.
It's good to know how to do the same job multiple ways! Thanks for sharing your opinion, and for watching!
you are most welcome.
Good one!
Thanks!
Good videos. two travel dials are easier and boring before reaming more accurate.
Well, the only way to not make a mistake is don't do anything. Ever.
can you tell me what you personally learned here??
Production vs tool room which has better career prospective.... Please reply
It's a shame that this video didn't exist 30 years go when I worked in a design technology department. Thankfully I did know about Clocking as we all it otherwise I would never been able to achieve accuracy because our machine was completely manual.
Thank you for your comment. We always appreciate them.
I've been scratching my head over how to make accurate long moves on an old horizontal mill. You guys just gave me an idea.
Homemade gage blocks out of 1" square CRS, cut, milled and ground to various standard lengths from 1" up to 12" each.
With those, a couple good squares and angle plates, some good dial indicators and I should be good to go.
Thanks,
John
P.S. Know where I can get some good angle plates?
Just kidding. 😊
I know very well where to get those.
I have a Starrett tool that does that. It is a round bar with notches ground into it at one inch intervals and a sliding indicator mount that engages the notches. Not as convenient as a DRO, but you can use it anywhere and reach intermediate dimensions directly from the dial indicator.
Even with a DRO I set the dials to zero and use the dials to confirm that the DRO is correct. Years ago I scrapped a very expensive part because of a defective DRO. There was a bad spot in the DRO scale. Unless you were at near the table's end travel you wouldn't hit the bad spot... and when you cranked the table back it would go to the correct zero. I don't know how long the DRO was faulty, but I was the first one to run a part long enough to need very nearly the full table travel.
more content please :)
Will do pretty soon
hope so, learned soooo much from you, thank you!
Not buyin the pocket theory.you would still have to rotate the hadle quite a bit get .02.
I understand you are demonstrating another method, but folks depended on the table feed crank dials long before fancy digital readout.
Right you are, but sometimes we need to talk about how things used to be done.
yes but jig borers used gauge blocks long before dros discounting sips self compensating screws
get rid of the coats, use tight overall with no pockets and a zipper without the flap
Pressing the block with hand will make it warmer hence distort your measurement.
Ya but .020" that is like a .5mm
Do it again
Dove!
As the saying goes, learn from your mistakes but better yet to learn from someone else's. Lesson learned. If an employee had cocked up, would you be as understanding?:>)
Never thought about the soap trick but I used to use hand cream before getting dirty using the theory that if you fill up the pores with clean dirt there is no room for dirty dirt..
Mistakes happen all the time, you have to be understanding in this line of work. If you don't, you won't have any employees!
I bet you could do everything needed in your factory if you didn't have any employees left, output might be a little down if you were on your own and the golf course might have to miss you a bit more. On the other hand, just think of all of the income being yours.
I have ripped lab coat pockets a couple times before on a bridgeport while reaching for a drill bit on my toolbox. Both times I did edge find my work piece all over again. Sorry, no DRO on my mill.
Good move. I should have re-indicated, but I didn't think much of it at the time. Lesson learned. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching!
Could you have tapped the stock on the square instead of the blade. There would be no chance of damaging the squares accuracy.
Yes, tapping the stock and not the blade would be a better option. Thank you.
But I seem to have missed how the gauge blocks are used.
Head to around 3:20. Notice how I put the 1" gage block in between the part and the edge of the square to push the part 1" out on the X-axis; now move ahead and note the .25" gage block between the part and the other edge which moves the part .25" on the Y-axis. After we drill the first hole, we remove the gage blocks completely and mount the part into the square alone. This ensure that the next hole will be exactly 1" from the first hole on the X-axis, as well as .25" away from the first hole on the Y-axis.
Do I get a prize for figuring out how the error occurred before you went to the conference room? Bumping Bridgeport cranks is a common event.
As for the dirty finger nails: instead of soap before grim, use dishwashing detergent to clean hands. Palmolive is my choice. When they get *really* bad use hair shampoo. Works very well.
i add used coffee grounds to the dishsoap - makes it work even better!
Might have been clothing, but I wouldn't exclude possibility of square slip. Video doesn't show a check if square hadn't slipped after second tapping on the part (before second hole). I think you just assumed it shouldn't.
Valid point, but our move was short on the Y-axis. If the square had moved from tapping the part into the second setup, the Y-axis move would've been long. Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching!