I really enjoy your easy going explanation for everything you do im a very beginner in the Machining world but I have many years of maintenance experience and Im a farm boy so have to make do with what i have and be creative like you are thanks for the vids keep them coming.
Hi Mark, this very clearly shows how to setup a taper. After watching your video I used this idea to set the angle to bore a # 30MM taper into a fixture block. Results are good and it's hard to not love the sound of two machined parts clicking together with a neat "snick" noise. Thanks!
I've made a few lathe centers myself using the taper attachment. Used the tool post grinder to grind the 60 degree point in the headstock spindle afterward. Nice!
Great fun to use the collet now. I have always made these tapers the hard way. Turn them oversize close and fine tune them with files etc till perfect using a known taper. I do love my files and to date have never had one that was a failure. You sure need to make a couple live centers for your tail stock. Joe Pie has made a couple nice and easy ones from his scrap bins. You are soooo good at winging it. Doing what you can with what you have. Like myself old fashioned machinists are getting hard to come by. I took some feed rollers from our planer molder in recently to have the surfaces knurled. It was like I had shot the young and newly licensed fella in the forehead with a 2 x 4. 4 years of schooling and had never knurled anything. Not in school and not under whoever he did his hours with. Nice one today my friend. Take care now eh.
@@WinkysWorkshop His machinist papers. He sure wasn't taught the basics like I was. He can dance around a DRO but throw an analog unit in front of him and he is lost. Takes him forever but his work is accurate.
@@TomokosEnterprize Funny... I suspect he will learn with time. I think the problem with "papers" is that there is very little agreement as to what it takes to get them. I've never had any training but I have worked around many machinist that are certified machinists. Some are good and some are not. In most cases they know more than me but sometimes they lack creative thinking and problem solving abilities. A formal education is good to have. It gives you a baseline of information. However, nothing beats 10 years of hands on experience. The slow part might be a learning thing but it might also be an attitude. Sometimes methodical can be perceived as slow. I've know machinists that need a swift kick in the ass but I have also worked with a few that look very slow and get a huge amount done. I remember one time I worked with this new guy. He was a pressman where I worked. We were discussing a taper fit sprocket that was slipping. The machine needed a new shaft and sprocket but changing the shaft was a huge job. I had experience with this and it took me about 2 hours. I said, we have the part if you want to change it. I went to lunch and when I came back the press was running. He said, thanks for the advice, I changed the shaft and it's working great. It took him no more than 40 minutes! I was shocked. I went to my boss and said, put this guy in the shop. Do not consider other candidate, just do it. To my surprise my boss did this. Two years later this guy was the best machinist I have ever worked with. On top of that I have NEVER seen a better welder. I saw him take a mig welder and weld and fill a gap of 1/2" x 2" in 18 gauge sheet metal. I watched him do it.... he was moving like a zigzag sewing machine. The plant closed about 6 ears later and he is now doing remodeling on houses. He is good at carpentry but what a waste of talent.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have met a rare few of these naturals and they are truly amazing. They roll up their sleeves and get it done. In my last position I loved so dearly my attitude was "I DON'T CARE" I didn't care what or when they asked me to do something and I would accompany their wishes. It was their pay cheque every 2 weeks without fail and I may be building a logging trailer one day and wiring in a shop van the next. I just never cared. I spoke to the owner like he was just an ordinary person and he in return. I have been gone now for 8 years and he still stops in for coffee every once in a while. There was never any need for a union either. I wasn't the highest paid tradesman there but I had all the keys and was allowed to so side work in the fab and machine shop on the weekends. The extensive parts room was at my mercy as well. In 15 + years I got regular raises I never asked for. We have a thing here called "The Men's Shed" a buddy and I started up. Google it. I am in Vanderhoof BC Canada. Just a bunch of older farts doing what we can to help others. We fix things for cost and have a new docking system and make a sturdy picnic tables. From toasters to stair lifts we have a talent to get it done or find out how. We are helping other towns and cities get their own Sheds going as well. Seems I am flying somewhere about once a month now. I hear you on the young fella. He has the passion to do the work and I am around to help at his needs be. Funny, I will take him a tricky shaft and he will often call on a process and then pay(Bosses $) for that piece. I've always chuckled about that. I never had a certification either. I was able to adapt quickly and like yourself have the drive to learn every day. Take care my friend.
I made a few Morse tapers a few years ago but have to admit cheating, using a machine with a taper attachment. I want a set of tail stock die holders, much like you are making, but will need to use the compound for them this time. You give me more incentive with this mill to buy/make a collet chuck for the lathe first though, lol.
I love the ER40 collets!!! There are lots of different methods for making die holders. I probably could have eliminated the sliding part and just let the tail stock slide. I love the fact that the dies stay mounted. It's very quick and easy and I do most threading on the lathe anyway.
I notice you have an old lathe with a lot of lash noise between the gears. I have a 1942 Logan 850 engine lathe and I use open gear lube in spray form. It took all of the backlash noise out of my open back and reduction gears. Nice lathe by the way. I am watching because I want to know how to turn a Morse #2 for my tailstock, to make some additional attachments. Im tired of buying when I can make it myself.
Hi Winky, With taper shank drills, the biggest misconception is that the tang is used for driving. Our customers would complain about the drill being defective if the tang twisted. It was hard to convince them that the fit of the taper drives the drill and the tang is strictly for "knockout"! I'm not sure what holder manufacturers would tell you, but I suspect they would agree. Just FYI! dave
One other person said the same although I disagree. First, why would they make the tang flat? Why not round and second, why reduce the inside of a tail stock ram to fit a tang. 3 out of the 4 lathes where I work have a reduced area inside. I suspect this is actually fairly difficult to make a ram in this way. I suspect the taper is supposed to hold a LOT but maybe the tang was just in case the taper failed to hold? Either way, a morse taper #2 in perfect condition does not do very well with the torque of a 1-inch drill. A number 3 has at least double the surface area. I love the fact that my taper locks in and I'd be shocked if my 1/2HP lathe twisted off the tang. You might be right but it seems odd for the reasons I listed above.
@@iancraig1951 Several have said the same and I totally agree that a good fitting taper holds much better. However, when you dress the taper with a reamer and install a new taper on your chuck you better also replace the taper on your other drill chucks. Also be sure the tapers are always clean and without a film of oil. All it takes is one taper slipping and the perfect fit is no longer. I suspect a #3 taper is much more forgiving as the surface area is about double but I have a #2 and I absolutely love the tang on my chuck. I've dressed tapers and replaced chuck tapers several times and never had much luck. Morse #2 drill usually stop at 3/4" although I've seen then 7/8". Maybe I push the limits drilling 1-inch holes but even a 1/2" drill with a jammed chip and a lathe in back gear is an enormous amount of torque.
@@iancraig1951 You are absolutely correct. The only reason the tang is on there is to drift the taper out. That’s the whole point of a Morse taper. They are designed to resist axial loading, but not longitudinal loading. That’s why mills have a drawbar, to firmly seat The Morse taper, so it doesn’t spin.
You always have great videos at Winky's Workshop. I enjoy Joe Pie as well and others. I get a little confused about how much of a cut to take. My 1960 South Bend is an Engine Lathe apparently. It has a 3-step pulley that uses a 2.125" wide belt. With the stock pushed all the way against the back of the chuck so it can't slip in the jaws I can do .500" with little effort. Holding in the jaws I can cut between .200" to .250". If I put the 12.5" 4-jaw on nothing will slide at all. So does a good machinist take smaller steps to insure less mistakes or does hogging a piece out make any sense? I'm a hobbyist, ask my about welding and I will tell you how to get it done, I've been around machinery all my life and played with a lot of huge lathes and mills but was never a true educated machinist. It's still amazing to me to look at something I've made with all the work involved and say not bad for an old man. It's relaxing and keeps your mind going, thinking all the time, making you more active than watching it all on TH-cam. Thanks for sharing. (My lathe had a 2HP motor, now it's a 3HP 3PH on a static drive so it's still 2HP)
Winky, It would have been nicer and more accurate if you had put a bit of stock in the collet and center drilled the end. Then place your point of the center in it and support the other end with your tailstock center. Just like turning between centers it is more accurate than your method. The DTI MUST be on center height to obtain an accurate taper. Regards from Australia
That is true.... however, if the center had no runout it would not matter. Also... the compound cutting the taper isn't the most accurate anyway. I could have improved the quality by driving the handle of the compound with a drill but a taper attachment would have been even better. If my tail stock did not grab the tang and I was trying to drill with the taper I would have been a lot more concerned.
Yes I did. The tail stock spindle was missing when I bought the lathe so I made one and installed the set screws. I love it. The South Bend has a stout key in the tailstock but my logan had a pin. I never did this to the logan. I was worried about it shearing the pin.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes, I got that, it's just that every lathe that I have worked on that indexes the flat tang on the MT, does so with the tang horizontal so my first thought was that it should with the mod too, but really vertical / horizontal doesn't matter as lone as you are aware when setting up the tool... my Barnes doesn't have that feature either, and I was thinking of doing a boring head so I don't have to offset the tailstock to turn tapers (not having a compound rest either...) Sometimes a, good, fresh, Idea doesn't sound right when you've been thinking about it from another angle too long...
@@trollforge Interesting.... I can't remember how the reduced section was oriented on the lathes I saw. Vertical was better for me because i installed set screws.
Part two should have been the next video to play. This is a very irritating TH-cam problem. Here is the link. Thanks for asking. th-cam.com/video/3A2ccWwAARc/w-d-xo.html
Hey Winky, great video!! Three questions-Do you ever have trouble with adjusting The gibs on your compound? Seems mine are either too tight or too loose. Do you have any tricks to get them just right? Also, do you ever use a brown scotch bright pad instead of emery cloth? Seems to work really well to polish. And do you own a thread file? You know, it’s square and has 8 different thread choices to chase threads. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you use one.
I used something called Vibra tite on the gib set screws and left the lock nuts off. It works fantastic! I need to try the brown scotch bright! I have a thread file and use it to clean up threads but after cutting threads i like a standard file. I just want the tips knocked off. th-cam.com/video/ubekCBekDkM/w-d-xo.html
All this depends on the accuracy of the taper you are copying--some are crap--find a good one and it will drive a 2 inch drill..My biggest lathe has a 4 foot bed..It is not big..
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Nice video-------great project
Thanks! I hope your trip home from the flywheeler went smooth!
I really enjoy your easy going explanation for everything you do im a very beginner in the Machining world but I have many years of maintenance experience and Im a farm boy so have to make do with what i have and be creative like you are thanks for the vids keep them coming.
Great to hear! thanks
WOW! You have Mr. Pete commenting on your videos.. You have arrived!
Nice taper Winky!!!
What about that? I met him in person at the Florida Flywheeler show last weekend. What a great guy. He is the same in person as in his video.
@@WinkysWorkshop Another WOW... You got to go to the Flywheeler show and meet Mr. Pete.
@@dannywilsher4165 Yep it was cool. I'll post a video Friday. It's not the best video but still worth watching.
Hi Mark, this very clearly shows how to setup a taper. After watching your video I used this idea to set the angle to bore a # 30MM taper into a fixture block. Results are good and it's hard to not love the sound of two machined parts clicking together with a neat "snick" noise. Thanks!
Excellent!
I've made a few lathe centers myself using the taper attachment. Used the tool post grinder to grind the 60 degree point in the headstock spindle afterward. Nice!
That's probably a better way to do a taper but this works well for a die holder.
Great fun to use the collet now. I have always made these tapers the hard way. Turn them oversize close and fine tune them with files etc till perfect using a known taper. I do love my files and to date have never had one that was a failure. You sure need to make a couple live centers for your tail stock. Joe Pie has made a couple nice and easy ones from his scrap bins. You are soooo good at winging it. Doing what you can with what you have. Like myself old fashioned machinists are getting hard to come by. I took some feed rollers from our planer molder in recently to have the surfaces knurled. It was like I had shot the young and newly licensed fella in the forehead with a 2 x 4. 4 years of schooling and had never knurled anything. Not in school and not under whoever he did his hours with. Nice one today my friend. Take care now eh.
Newly licensed for what? Yeah... I need a good live center.
@@WinkysWorkshop His machinist papers. He sure wasn't taught the basics like I was. He can dance around a DRO but throw an analog unit in front of him and he is lost. Takes him forever but his work is accurate.
@@WinkysWorkshop Joe does a nice and easy smaller one. It looks perfect for your little lady.
@@TomokosEnterprize Funny... I suspect he will learn with time. I think the problem with "papers" is that there is very little agreement as to what it takes to get them. I've never had any training but I have worked around many machinist that are certified machinists. Some are good and some are not. In most cases they know more than me but sometimes they lack creative thinking and problem solving abilities. A formal education is good to have. It gives you a baseline of information. However, nothing beats 10 years of hands on experience. The slow part might be a learning thing but it might also be an attitude. Sometimes methodical can be perceived as slow. I've know machinists that need a swift kick in the ass but I have also worked with a few that look very slow and get a huge amount done. I remember one time I worked with this new guy. He was a pressman where I worked. We were discussing a taper fit sprocket that was slipping. The machine needed a new shaft and sprocket but changing the shaft was a huge job. I had experience with this and it took me about 2 hours. I said, we have the part if you want to change it. I went to lunch and when I came back the press was running. He said, thanks for the advice, I changed the shaft and it's working great. It took him no more than 40 minutes! I was shocked. I went to my boss and said, put this guy in the shop. Do not consider other candidate, just do it. To my surprise my boss did this. Two years later this guy was the best machinist I have ever worked with. On top of that I have NEVER seen a better welder. I saw him take a mig welder and weld and fill a gap of 1/2" x 2" in 18 gauge sheet metal. I watched him do it.... he was moving like a zigzag sewing machine. The plant closed about 6 ears later and he is now doing remodeling on houses. He is good at carpentry but what a waste of talent.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have met a rare few of these naturals and they are truly amazing. They roll up their sleeves and get it done. In my last position I loved so dearly my attitude was "I DON'T CARE" I didn't care what or when they asked me to do something and I would accompany their wishes. It was their pay cheque every 2 weeks without fail and I may be building a logging trailer one day and wiring in a shop van the next. I just never cared. I spoke to the owner like he was just an ordinary person and he in return. I have been gone now for 8 years and he still stops in for coffee every once in a while. There was never any need for a union either. I wasn't the highest paid tradesman there but I had all the keys and was allowed to so side work in the fab and machine shop on the weekends. The extensive parts room was at my mercy as well. In 15 + years I got regular raises I never asked for. We have a thing here called "The Men's Shed" a buddy and I started up. Google it. I am in Vanderhoof BC Canada. Just a bunch of older farts doing what we can to help others. We fix things for cost and have a new docking system and make a sturdy picnic tables. From toasters to stair lifts we have a talent to get it done or find out how. We are helping other towns and cities get their own Sheds going as well. Seems I am flying somewhere about once a month now. I hear you on the young fella. He has the passion to do the work and I am around to help at his needs be. Funny, I will take him a tricky shaft and he will often call on a process and then pay(Bosses $) for that piece. I've always chuckled about that. I never had a certification either. I was able to adapt quickly and like yourself have the drive to learn every day. Take care my friend.
always wonderful......cheers from Orlando, Florida, Paul
Thanks Paul
Nice work.
I need to make one of these.
Great idea!
Great content.
Thank you, EM..
Thanks Ed
If you had a #2 to #3 Morse taper adapter, you could try it out while still chucked in the lathe, not disturbing your setup.
Very true... and you know what... I ha.... Never mind
Excellent video winky, keep'um coming.....
Thank you! Will do!
I always felt I would need to harden a tool like this. Evidently not. Great video!
I think the softer taper holds slightly better if the ram is hardened. Mine is not but i think most are (I made mine)
@@WinkysWorkshop it works that’s what counts. Thanks!
@@lisag2771 Very true, thanks
I made a few Morse tapers a few years ago but have to admit cheating, using a machine with a taper attachment. I want a set of tail stock die holders, much like you are making, but will need to use the compound for them this time. You give me more incentive with this mill to buy/make a collet chuck for the lathe first though, lol.
I love the ER40 collets!!! There are lots of different methods for making die holders. I probably could have eliminated the sliding part and just let the tail stock slide. I love the fact that the dies stay mounted. It's very quick and easy and I do most threading on the lathe anyway.
Nice Job Winky, the finish is to hold Oil mate 👍
Ha... true. Thanks!
I notice you have an old lathe with a lot of lash noise between the gears. I have a 1942 Logan 850 engine lathe and I use open gear lube in spray form. It took all of the backlash noise out of my open back and reduction gears. Nice lathe by the way. I am watching because I want to know how to turn a Morse #2 for my tailstock, to make some additional attachments. Im tired of buying when I can make it myself.
I'm using Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer now. Seems to work very well.
i love you sir you are great teacher from pakistan
Thanks you sir!
Hi Winky, With taper shank drills, the biggest misconception is that the tang is used for driving. Our customers would complain about the drill being defective if the tang twisted. It was hard to convince them that the fit of the taper drives the drill and the tang is strictly for "knockout"! I'm not sure what holder manufacturers would tell you, but I suspect they would agree. Just FYI! dave
One other person said the same although I disagree. First, why would they make the tang flat? Why not round and second, why reduce the inside of a tail stock ram to fit a tang. 3 out of the 4 lathes where I work have a reduced area inside. I suspect this is actually fairly difficult to make a ram in this way. I suspect the taper is supposed to hold a LOT but maybe the tang was just in case the taper failed to hold? Either way, a morse taper #2 in perfect condition does not do very well with the torque of a 1-inch drill. A number 3 has at least double the surface area. I love the fact that my taper locks in and I'd be shocked if my 1/2HP lathe twisted off the tang. You might be right but it seems odd for the reasons I listed above.
You should not need a tang for driving drills etc if you have a taper that fits properly--tangs are for badly fitting tapers..
@@iancraig1951 Several have said the same and I totally agree that a good fitting taper holds much better. However, when you dress the taper with a reamer and install a new taper on your chuck you better also replace the taper on your other drill chucks. Also be sure the tapers are always clean and without a film of oil. All it takes is one taper slipping and the perfect fit is no longer. I suspect a #3 taper is much more forgiving as the surface area is about double but I have a #2 and I absolutely love the tang on my chuck. I've dressed tapers and replaced chuck tapers several times and never had much luck. Morse #2 drill usually stop at 3/4" although I've seen then 7/8". Maybe I push the limits drilling 1-inch holes but even a 1/2" drill with a jammed chip and a lathe in back gear is an enormous amount of torque.
@@iancraig1951
You are absolutely correct. The only reason the tang is on there is to drift the taper out. That’s the whole point of a Morse taper. They are designed to resist axial loading, but not longitudinal loading. That’s why mills have a drawbar, to firmly seat The Morse taper, so it doesn’t spin.
Nice! I am lucky enough to have a taper attachment on my lathe.
That would probably be better. The tail stock taper is only slightly shorter than my compound travel!
Thanks mate, it looks just like a bought one.
Close enough for sure.
Good job and nice work🙂👍
Thanks 😁
I like.good for newbies and old-school .old mesin but still good tqvm.
Cool... I think?
You always have great videos at Winky's Workshop. I enjoy Joe Pie as well and others. I get a little confused about how much of a cut to take. My 1960 South Bend is an Engine Lathe apparently. It has a 3-step pulley that uses a 2.125" wide belt. With the stock pushed all the way against the back of the chuck so it can't slip in the jaws I can do .500" with little effort. Holding in the jaws I can cut between .200" to .250". If I put the 12.5" 4-jaw on nothing will slide at all. So does a good machinist take smaller steps to insure less mistakes or does hogging a piece out make any sense? I'm a hobbyist, ask my about welding and I will tell you how to get it done, I've been around machinery all my life and played with a lot of huge lathes and mills but was never a true educated machinist. It's still amazing to me to look at something I've made with all the work involved and say not bad for an old man. It's relaxing and keeps your mind going, thinking all the time, making you more active than watching it all on TH-cam. Thanks for sharing. (My lathe had a 2HP motor, now it's a 3HP 3PH on a static drive so it's still 2HP)
I think yout lathe is much larger than mine. .500" is significant. I say, as long as the lathe handles it, go for it.
Machine the tang before the taper, much easier to hold.
You got a point there although it wasn't a problem
"I like it" too!
Thanks you sir!
Winky, It would have been nicer and more accurate if you had put a bit of stock in the collet and center drilled the end. Then place your point of the center in it and support the other end with your tailstock center. Just like turning between centers it is more accurate than your method. The DTI MUST be on center height to obtain an accurate taper. Regards from Australia
That is true.... however, if the center had no runout it would not matter. Also... the compound cutting the taper isn't the most accurate anyway. I could have improved the quality by driving the handle of the compound with a drill but a taper attachment would have been even better. If my tail stock did not grab the tang and I was trying to drill with the taper I would have been a lot more concerned.
Spot on Dave.
@@badoldbiker368 - I agree this would have been better.
What did you set your compound at to achieve proper Morse taper?
I should have looked but I did not. Sorry
Mark, did you add the setscrews to the tailstock spindle?
Yes I did. The tail stock spindle was missing when I bought the lathe so I made one and installed the set screws. I love it. The South Bend has a stout key in the tailstock but my logan had a pin. I never did this to the logan. I was worried about it shearing the pin.
@@WinkysWorkshop so, was the keyway why you drilled for the setscrews at 90° & 270° instead of 0° & 180°?
@@trollforge The keyway runs along the bottom of the ram and the 3/8" set screws go in from the sides opposing each other.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes, I got that, it's just that every lathe that I have worked on that indexes the flat tang on the MT, does so with the tang horizontal so my first thought was that it should with the mod too, but really vertical / horizontal doesn't matter as lone as you are aware when setting up the tool... my Barnes doesn't have that feature either, and I was thinking of doing a boring head so I don't have to offset the tailstock to turn tapers (not having a compound rest either...) Sometimes a, good, fresh, Idea doesn't sound right when you've been thinking about it from another angle too long...
@@trollforge Interesting.... I can't remember how the reduced section was oriented on the lathes I saw. Vertical was better for me because i installed set screws.
Please post a link to part 2 for the die holder for threading rod.
Part two should have been the next video to play. This is a very irritating TH-cam problem. Here is the link. Thanks for asking. th-cam.com/video/3A2ccWwAARc/w-d-xo.html
I like it !
Thanks
Looks good
Thanks
Hey Winky, great video!! Three questions-Do you ever have trouble with adjusting The gibs on your compound? Seems mine are either too tight or too loose. Do you have any tricks to get them just right? Also, do you ever use a brown scotch bright pad instead of emery cloth? Seems to work really well to polish. And do you own a thread file? You know, it’s square and has 8 different thread choices to chase threads. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you use one.
I used something called Vibra tite on the gib set screws and left the lock nuts off. It works fantastic! I need to try the brown scotch bright! I have a thread file and use it to clean up threads but after cutting threads i like a standard file. I just want the tips knocked off. th-cam.com/video/ubekCBekDkM/w-d-xo.html
Couldn't you just put a tool in the holder push up to the taper and adjust the compound so its square against the taper?
That would be a good way to get close!
I like it too 😁.
Can anyone tell me why some Morse tapers have a reduced section midway along the length as seen on Winky's chuck arbour?
I wondered about that too. I suspect it makes for a less critical fit but also that it would hold better without it.
@@WinkysWorkshop I bet Mr. Pete knows 😁.
@@lesmaybury793 You might be right!
Good job
Thanks!
BUEN TRABAJO
.
Guess if that setup did cause you some problems, next step was cutting a 82° dead center, but that also implies cutting the Morse taper on the back.
The taper works well although not perfect. If it wasnt for the tang it might be an issue.
@@WinkysWorkshop wow my comment was supposed to be a reply to a completely different video, that’s weird.
@@felixar90 That has happened before... youtube overloaded?
All this depends on the accuracy of the taper you are copying--some are crap--find a good one and it will drive a 2 inch drill..My biggest lathe has a 4 foot bed..It is not big..
A perfect fit is hard to get.
Hey Winky check your email I sent you something
Thanks... just replied