PAINT TALK: Are water soluble oil paints the same ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2019
- In this video I discuss my experience using Winsor and Newton water soluble oil paints that I bought from Michaels. I answer questions like are they the same? Can you still use medium? What is the dry time? What are the pros and cons of them?
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Hi, I am the son of two artists and began painting in my hometown of Richmond, Virginia before I could walk. I was a rare combination of artist and athlete so I moved to Los Angeles in 2008 to play football for USC. I left the team my sophomore year to focus on painting and filmmaking, applying the same focus and discipline from my football career to my art. I primarily work in oils, and spend most free days painting "en plein air" in my new home of Sarasota Florida.
Where to find me:
Website: www.chrisfornataro.com
Facebook: / forza43
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Also check out:
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I began using oil paints ten years ago for about 3 years and loved them. During this time, I began having recurrent bouts of pneumonia (4 in one year) . My Dr. was perplexed about the frequency and how it occured in either lung and in different areas of the lungs. He referred me to a pulmonologist. I had also developed and still have asthma. About that time, I tried WM oils. In the 7 years I have been using them, I have yet to have another bout of pneumonia. The Winsor Newton water mixable oils are my least favorite. I hate them. Please try the Holbein Duo Aqua. They are much better in quality and vibrancy. Also, never use water to mix with the paints. I generally use the Holbein mediums. Jerry's or Blick is a good reasonable source. I use the kind of brush basin that has 3 sections with the large section having a ridged bottom. Please do try the Holbein as I think you'll be pleased. Thanks for your excellent videos. I recommend them to my students and they also enjoy them.
This is so helpful. Thanks.
Thank you!
Holbein Duo Aqua Oils are supposed to be very good, and are professional grade. I’ve been wanting to try them, but as someone who is learning I didn’t want to start out with a more expensive brand.
I got turned on to the water mixable oils through one of my favorite artists, Camilla d’Errico. She uses Golden Acrylic medium with Holbein Duo paints. I like the effects she’s been able to achieve, so when I found some Windsor and Newton water mixable oils on sale,I bit the bullet.
I like that they are low odor, which is helpful as my husband has a breathing disorder. The consistency, vibrancy, and color mix-ability reminds me of Liquitex Basics acrylic paint that I’ve used with my students as far as quality goes. I also purchased the W&N water mixable thinner and linseed oil, which I liken better than the water. I think, like the Liquitex Basics, these W&N paints are student grade, not that there is anything wrong with that. They are as cheep as $5.99 a tube at Blick art supplies, where they seem to be in high demand.
Sorry for rambling. I’ve missed being part of an art community since covid hit, and am not much of a commenter on TH-cam, though it seems a great place to learn. Thanks for sharing your hard won knowledge with us!
Remember Chris you can buy water soluble Linseed oil to use with your WMOP’s then you will find brush and pallet cleaning with water hassle free’ 💁🏻
Cobra are the most creamy so try these. But water mixable doesn't really mean you'll get the best result by mixing with water when you paint (even though you can) rather they clean up well with water. If you mix with water rather than medium it makes them dull, so you might as well use acrylics. Buy the mediums made for water mixable oils and you'll get the best results. Cobra is better for the paint but not for the mediums - W&N painting medium for water mixable oils is good (not so much their paints). You can also get water mixable thinner and fast drying medium. So clean up with water but to get that same luminosity that regular oils have, without the smell, use the mediums. The Holbein aqua duo are good too but like all paints, different brands are sometimes better for some colours. I've been using the water mixable oils for about 2 years now because I live in an apartment.
Thanks for the info. I have used the W&N and now I am trying out the Aqua Duo and I honestly can't tell the difference. I use just water because last time I used water and linseed oil I got cracking. When I use water they dry out way too fast for me.
I worked at Michael's and saw the Windsor & Newton water soluble oils were on sale, I bought myself just the necessary colors to get started. I'm versed in acrylics and knew next to nothing about oils. These were stress free and there was no pressure to spend more on solvents. But you're right, half a year later and I don't see myself moving onyo real oil paints. These are comfortable for me, the dry time is less as well!
Dana Blust the positive thing is that since they were stress free without needing to buy solvent you did take one step closer to oils! 😀
how much do you use vs acrylics? meaning if you were painting the same subject in both, would you end up using more or less than in acrylic?
I tried Cobra water mixable oils, loved them!
I'm about to try them. I have zero ventilation in my painting area so I have to use water mixable for now
The best I've tried, so far.
Cobra water?
@@cheriepearson1070 Cobra water mixable oils!
@@GebahiArtworks thank you!
Excellent tutorial again, really enjoy your talks, they are a great help
Your videos are important and helpful! Keep up the great work! ♥️🙏🏼
I personally wouldn't say that you should only use water mixable oil paints if you absolutely have to. Why risk getting asthma etc if there is another way. I don't see normal oil paint as the non plus ultra that everyone should be working towards. Health should go first
I think the best are Daniel Smith water soluble oils
I have to use WMO because of asthma - I use WMO thinner and WMO linseed oil. Maybe you could try again with those and see if you like them. You can also use regular oil paints with WMO if you keep the regular oil paints at 30% or less in the mixture.
I love your information on water maxable oil paint, and I love your haircut even more! 🌹
I use Holbein aqua duo exclusively. I have linseed oil that is also water soluble so that I am basically just replacing turpentine with water. I know they changed the chemistry of the actual oil paints to create these paint. Don’t know if all of them are like that.
damn Chris, how talented are you! and i can watch you talk forever...
I don't know if products from Schmincke are available where you are, but they have a medium (called Medium W), that you can mix into normal oilpaints and make them water soluble.
Does Medium W work well? Will they dilute/dull the color?
Thanks, very informative....
Such good news!!!
I was really glad to hear your comments on the water-mixable oils - I’ve heard such varying views.
I’ve used them exclusively for more than 15 years and I do like them. I used traditional oils for many years before discovering these when I was painting publicly. If you use water only to thin you will get a more matte finish (which I prefer) but there are mediums specifically for these oils that will give you the feel and effects of traditional oils. Using a palette knife will give a shinier finish as well.
Yes - you can use both water and linseed oil at the same time, always use the mediums intended for these oils.
You can supposedly mix up to 25% traditional oils with these but I’ve never tried it, not sure what the benefit would be.
I use quality brands, Cobra (Royal Talens) is great and Daniel Smith. I’ve tried most of them. Lesser brands might be cheaper to start but probably give a poor first impression and a turn off.
I can work these paints better than traditionals, working thin to be similar to watercolor (I wouldn’t be able to do the same with thinner) or very thick with a palette knife.
Have you consider using Schminke Medium W with your traditional oil paints?
I enjoyed this. Interesting info, it's no wonder your channel is growing relatively fast, people like this stuff! I have heard others recommend Duo (including another commenter I see) as being a better brand for water mixable oil but I have never used any of them, maybe in the future brands will develop better water mixable formulas but for now I'll stick with regular oils
I've heard of that brand too. I haven't tried them yet. When I do maybe I will make a video on that. Thanks for watching
Wondering if you used water soluble linseed oil? If you mix WMO with ordinary oil mediums or oil paints then they lose their water soluble properties and must be used like regular oils.
Heya!
I thought I heard in another video that you did end up getting the Holbein Duo Aqua oil paints. How do you like them? I took the plunge and bought them for their high pigment content when I first started dabbling in oils a few of years ago. Since then, I've used Cobra and W&N WMOPs and neither are as good in my experience. Then I bought a few colors in Gamblin's Radiant series and I can't really tell the difference between the Holbeins and those. I'm curious if your opinion has changed since using a professional series since I haven't come across another video mentioning it. Many thank from a patron 😁
Fantastic! Thank you for the Truth!🌞🙌🙏👍😀🤗
Hi Chris, thx for sharing your xp again, especially for your differentiated conclusion . Since you mention water. Far as i know the colors are not made for thinning them with water; just for cleaning them easier and for a shorter dry time.
This is valid for winston, they have an mediums created especially for artisan. Other water soluble products like cobra can be mixed with water for painting. (Last stand of my info.)
Cheers, Jochen
Thank you, I needed that kick in the butt! I have water soluble/mixable oil paints and pretty much gave up after a few rounds of pretty successful Bob Ross - type paintings... I have always wanted to paint with oils but I want to learn the right way and be taken seriously (eventually, lol).
I am a new oil painter. I bought many colors of winsor newton wmo and am having a hard time. I was told that cobra and duo are better. Maybe because I come from water color. I feel like I should be using a shovel.
I’m thinking about trying the water soluble ones just bc I’m traveling a lot and have problems with the turpentine leaking during trips and am just annoyed with having to lug around a big thing of turp and linseed oil all the time.
I would love to hear your advice on making oil painting more portable since I know you do a lot of plein air.
Anyway thank you for another wonderful and informative video!
They have linseed oil for water mixable paints that can be cleaned with water.
Try Cobra
So Windsor and Newton (as well as many others) makes Artisan brand modified mediums and linseed oils for use with water miscible oil paints. I paint with both traditional and water miscible. Fumes can be a problem for me. Honestly, they really behave the same. My water soluble paintings look exactly the same. Really not designed to be used with water as a "thinner" - water for cleaning only. There are actually modified thinners that can be used with these paints. Some other brands are Holbein (my fav), Simmons, Lukas (not great) and Cobra (more student grade in my opinion.) Best, J
Jennifer Hankinson thanks! I’ll check these out
Awesome! Michaels or Hobby Lobby carry a lot of the mediums. Look for the “Artisan" brand label. Otherwise, you can find more variety at Blicks or Cheap Joes online. You can use them interchangeably with regular oils and mediums if you want but you do lose the water and soap cleanup. Enjoy watching your videos!
Water is actually not meant to be used as a thinner, they are specific mediums that are adapted and can be rinsed with water as well, water is ONLY there to clean your brushes, not as a medium.
Try Daniel smith water mixable oils. I have lukas berlin and cobra, but Daniel smith is my favorite.
I'm brand new to oils after spending years being an acrylic and watercolor paint artist, so I have a reallllly hard time grasping how "water soluble oils" can even be a thing. I don't think I'll ever try them because oil and water don't mix. Surely that would cause problems, right?
I’m terribly allergic to oms. I get an instant headache if it’s w/in 100ft of me. If I could paint with oils and not have to use terps, oms or anything with fumes I would be in heaven, but I don’t know if anyway around it. I was hoping wmo could solve my problem, but there seems to be a lot of challenges with these as well.
Also- Iris Scott is a very well know artist. It’s how I found out about Holbein aqua duo. Cheers!
I appreciate you posting your impressions of water mixable oil paints. However, I think the basis of your criticism is somewhat flawed. For one, Winsor & Newton Artisan water mixable oils are not high-quality artist-grade paints. I corresponded with a W & N rep who advised that their Artisan WMO's are considered "student or value-grade grange", not professional paint. I asked why W&N does not offer a professional grade, and she said they looked into it, but a focus group of professional artists showed very little interest. It's interesting to me how some artists seem stubbornly fixed on the materials they use. I switched to Cobra WMO's a while ago and have been quite pleased. They thin nicely with water for the initial block-in phase of a painting. The wide range of WMO mediums cover most preferences as a painting progresses. WMO's ARE oil paints. They contain no water and are primarily made up of pigments and linseed oil. The main difference is they've been altered so water can interact with them. I don't think it's a matter of not being afraid to try traditional oils. Rather, it's not being afraid to try something relatively new that can be safer and easier to use.
Fred I understand W&N water mixable paints are not professional grade paints but I try to keep everything on my channel as simple as possible as to not confuse people just starting out with oils. Picking up oil painting can seem very daunting for and adding in water mixable paint that you have to get a special brand is just another thing to get in the way of actually painting. I admit I judged water mixable paints too harsh before using them but the bulk of the professional oil painting community and industry use regular oils so if someone has the means to use them I suggest they do over water mixable oils. I am going to try the Cobra soon. That’s very interesting what you said the W&N employee said. It’s probably “Big Turpentine” suppressing the water mixable oils. Lol thanks for the insightful comment!
Thanks for the reply Chris. When you mentioned you found W&N WMO's not very vibrant, I thought I'd pass on it was probably due to the grade of paint. Although, based on the fantastic paintings you presented in the video, it certainly doesn't appear you had any issues. Wonderful work! I appreciate your views on this subject and will look forward to your opinion of the Cobra WMO's. I don't feel they handle exactly like traditional oils, but they're close, and for me the pros outweigh the cons. Cobra (Royal Talens) has several instructional vids on TH-cam you might find interesting.
Just bought a set of Winsor Newton water mixable oils and they smelled terrible, like rancid oil and rotten fish. Maybe they are old. I did need some ventilation, but the smell cleared out quickly. The paint did look chalky when used with water, but I loved cleaning up with water
When I found oil to be too toxic for me (fumes), I tried water mixable oils. Better, but they DO still have an odour (sorry, Chris) that can give you a headache and/or an allergic reaction. The paint itself is still real oil but with a modified linseed (or safflower) oil. You can semi-clean your brushes with just water but, because there is still oil in the paint, the final cleaning before you store your brushes should be done with a substance that breaks down the oil. I use Dawn dish soap - it works really well.
I found a very helpful TH-cam vid. by Malcolm Dewey. His demo used baby oil as brush cleaner. I'm gonna try it. Also, water not recommended for thinner.
I like the odorless paint thinners because I am sensitive to the odors
Holbein Duo Aqua if you want colour saturation and a large gamut
I started using water mixable oils when Grumbacher first introduced them many years ago, back in the 1980's I believe (Max Oils), I treated them just like regular oils - never used water to thin or do washes, only mediums made for these paints - color was always exactly the same as regular oils. I've since gone to other brands as Max oils were thick and stiff (usually) and I found other brands to be more buttery and brushing "friendly"...Windsor Newton, Talens Cobra, Holbien Duo Aqua, Lukas, Daniel Smith - they are all just fine. Still - never find the colors dull or less brilliant than regular oils - ONLY use mediums, Linseed Oil, etc "Made" for water mixable oils...if you do you will never notice a difference or "see" a difference.
I would recommend Cobra Artists Oils (not Study). Made by Royal Talens (like Rembrandt and New Holland oils). In range is Painting Medium, which works like thinner, but it's oily in consistency. While I'm not big fan of W&N Artisans, they have nice mediums (Quick Drying Medium, Thinner).
Check out an excellent book by Sean Dye, Water Soluble Oils. He includes a detailed comparison with traditional oils. By the way, there are water mixable thinners and many water mixable mediums, like linseed oil that are designed for use with these paints.
Did you have this problem , paint stays tacky for days?
I did!
Paint Coach thanks, it’s primarily why I went back to traditional oils and I’m now just using Gamblin drying medium instead. Although Cobra water mixable oils were great to work with ! Until I can resolve the sticky situation I’ll stick to traditional for now. Great work you do !!
Please answer the question of DorisGlovier.
Cobra are amazing
Hard time complaining about WN vibrancy. I do notice when you use water only the finish is matte and semi transparent, looking similar to acrylics and lacks some umph, but look totally bold with water soluble stand oil
Sorry I’m late but duo aqua oils are a great higher quality water mixable oil paint!
Tim Packer is a successful artist who uses water soluble oil paints
They sale water soluble linseed oil
I introduced these water based oils into my art group several months ago as some of the elder members of the group where suffering with breathing difficulties . On health and safety reasons normal oils had to go, so enter WOIL. Since then 4 oil paint diehards have switched over to them and 6 previously non oil painters have started using them and no one finds any problems with them per se. OK quality varies between grades and manufacturers but the same goes for al mediums you get what you pay for. Secondly as stated in so many places over the net, the contents of the tubes are the same with the only changes being at a molecular level so the oil accepts water, so basically a super emulsifier. Third why aren’t you using all the great mediums available. One only has to watch TH-cam (you should try it) to see the sheer amount of brands available. W&N dipped their toes in the market and found push back from their “professional” market - TBF no one likes change if someone cracks the perceived alchemy of oils they will be on the same par as the amateur enthusiasts . The market is picking up and peeps are becoming aware of the health safety and environmental damage the solvents cause. I think the term is adapt or die (literally) from the fumes) oh you professional dinosaurs..
Yeah I for sure underestimated them. I did just buy some non toxic mineral spirits by Chelsea Classic Studios so once I use it I'll review it on my channel.
So theyre basically like gouache
Not at all. They’re oils. Just oil that is washable with water
Holbein
Bro, this is kinda frustrating. Water soluble oils are oils. All the same mediums are available, impasto pastes, levels of quality. There’s no diff
not as vibrent color, bleh thats all I need to know, Thanks!