That’s why I like Jolyon’s analysis of these things - he says it as he sees it. No fluffy, dancing around the topic or sitting on the fence - just plain old fashioned honesty. Thanks!
Personally I think hes so besotted byHamilton that his comments here actually devalue the argument. He would do better to let the lawmakers review it and stick to commentating at the same level he raced. Mediocrity.
Looked back on what he said about Silverstoune incident. Old fashioned hard racing - no penalty needed. I believe that is saying everything. Palmer was an average racing driver and is average F1 analyst - can't hold back and take British corner. F1 is GLOBAL sport not British national sport.
@@rodneylowe9526 Considering he was able to get a F1 drive I don't think you could call his driving mediocrity. So you think he is bias towards Hamilton well it sounds to be you are bias towards Max.
The fact that F1 have the technology to find out that Hamilton’s DRS wing was out by 0.2mm but couldn’t show and broadcast a camera view that could of been game changing to the world championship is mind blowing
Game changing us maybe a small overstatement haha, Hamilton wouldve taken it anyway and a 5 sec penalty wouldnt have made any difference between max and bottas, result wouldve been the same
The fact that Max goes outside the track himself, by a lot, is the worst thing about this defensive move. I can accept a driver pushing a driver out in the heat of the moment, but he has to make the turn himself or else it's just ridiculous.
@Gustavo Araujo Red Bull were pushing for more punishment after Silverstone this year, so with doing that they STATED they think it is fair to issue penalty after the race!
@Gustavo Araujo I think what merc really wants is to humiliate the fia into admitting that they were wrong in prematurely dismissing the incident. This is then getting back at the drs dq
There’s no way max is running that far out if it’s a gravel trap…he knew what he was doing, end of. Deserved a penalty at the time and definitely deserves one now, even if Lewis still won!
You are right, he probably wouldn't have gone that far out if there was a gravel trap.... but you also don't want to make abrupt steering adjustments on painted surfaces. He was too late on the breaks and didn't want to pinch the turn when he didn't have to. Late on the breaks throws all the weight to the front of the car which makes the rear tires have significantly less grip. If you make an abrupt steering input when the rear end is light, it's extremely easy to spin. It doesn't make it right but I don't necessarily think he was trying to run him off the track. It's instinctual for driver to open up the steering a bit in that type of situation to avoid a spin. It's also fun to watch these guys battle which is extremely hard to do at such high speeds and limited space.... F1 cars take up a lot of space. If you start throwing penalties at risky moves during the first title fight we've seen in years, it's going to take the excitement out of it. This type of stuff is great for the sport. Even if the roles were reversed, I'd much rather see Lewis make a risky block vs letting Max by on the straight.
True, The thing is Max has done this before, with Leclerc for the race win in Austria 2019, and for ppl who just want see hard and fair racing, the car on the inside should always leave a cars-width for the driver on the outside, gravel or no gravel... Lewis just learned from that and passed Max on the straight instead of corner, to avoid that situation again...
I agree with everything until the last sentence about it being a difficult job making a decision because it’s a title battle. The fact it’s a title battle should have relevance at all. All incidents should be investigated based on the incident alone with all evidence available. It’s doesn’t matter if it’s for the WDC or for 10th these incidents like this should be investigated fairly & equally regardless is what place the drivers are fighting for. You can’t allow any drivers to be getting away with punishable offences “for the sake of the show” as it sets a dangerous precedence for the future.
This is the comment I have been looking for. It's simple logic. Penalties are for endangering another driver's safety, not for or against ratings. The standards don't change when it's a title race! So would Max have been penalized if he did it to Mazepin? Ridiculous!
Yeah that seems really sketchy how they have onboard for lewis but conveniently don’t for max. How are they even supposed to conduct an investigation if they don’t have onboards. Seems like intentional negligence to me.
Except they never looked at it completely. The incident was noted but given the available views did not warrant a full investigation according to the stewards. Only when they actually investigate will they pull all the information that is not publicly available like the onboards that have not been broadcast or telemetry.
I am actually surprised that no one is discussing how quickly Lewis reacted to avoid that collision. He braked perfectly to make the corner, he started to turn left and suddenly he had to react because Max in this particular scenario, definitely wanted a collision.
That's why he has 7 WDCs, and I don't understad why people say it's the car, like yeah it's fast, but not everyone could do it, if I get in there I don't think I can even make 7 corners, let alone 7 WDCs
Hamilton exactly knows that Verstappen will try to do that move especially since Max is ahead in points and in case a collision happens it will be in his favor.
It's Max unlike all the others he passed previously, Lewis expected that.. he's also the same guy fighting a Force India on fresh hyper soft costing him the race win.. instead letting him unlap himself he proceeded to squeeze Ocon on the apex & unlike Lewis he kept his ground & Max ended up spawning
It still baffles me that not only did he throw himself at Hamilton on that corner which could've easily ended up in an DNF for both (ultimately benefiting himself). But then there was all the weaving through the straight as well. It's sad to see that someone with such a lack of sportsmanship can one day be a world champion just, because stewards don't want to do their job.
By not applying penalties because you "don't want to affect the championship" you are inherently affecting the championship. Teams all race in a set of rules and regulation (A formula) and they know that if they break it they will be penalised and potentially DSQ.) If you are not applying those same rules and codes then drivers will abuse those rules if they know they won't be penalised. And we know penalties are rarely applied fairly or equally.
Its as if you were ref for the Football World Cup Finals and just let it go to 120 minute overtime even though its not tied because the game ending on a lame 0-1 would be really anticlimactic
Here’s the issue. Stewards are supposed to judge solely on action, not on consequence. But all this year they’ve been looking at the consequences. Lando got a penalty for pushing Sergio into the gravel while other drivers haven’t for doing the same thing on tarmac runoffs
I have seen this comment everywhere, and Matt from WTF1 repeating it over and over. What's the original source? Is it in the regs that consequence shouldn't be taken into account? It seems to me that consecuenes very much matter for the stewards.
Spot on, so because Hamilton avoids contact they deemed it ok, if Hamilton had stayed on his line and verstappen drove into him as would of happened if Hamilton didn’t take avoiding action then they would of given a penalty. That’s not how applying penalties should work
I've noticed that a few more times the last one I remember was with vettel avoiding a collision by Carlos .. so basically if you don't avoid there will be a penalty for the other driver ,but if you do everything to avoid a collision and the other driver gains position so it's "all about let them race" What a yoke
@@DaVoKanfr Up to a day like today, Max has never served that 3 place grid penalty from Monza. He only took the engine penalty which dropped him to the back of the grid since it was a 4th engine.
Stewards sometimes have tough decisions. But, how is this a tough decision? He's nowhere near making the corner, drives multiple car widths outside the track, and prevents the overtake. If such actions are allowed, it makes overtaking on the outside almost impossible and very risky because the driver on the inside can push you off the track as much as they want. Not penalising this doesn't 'encourage racing', it heavily discourages overtakes in corners.
I understand and somewhat agree with your point but I would say even this decision, yes, was a tough decision in the moment. Either way it swings people will be upset. Either way it swings it will effect the outcome of the championship. That is not an easy job. The stewards are not only there to enforce the rules and “fairness” of F1, they’re also there to make the sport more exciting for spectators. And, although Max’s move was quite obvious, the fact is that (for some reason) they didn’t have his onboard. It’s hard to make that call without it.
@@Sumo-san You could argue whether this is a penalty or not is a difficult decision (I think it IS a penalty and not a difficult decision), but the decision to NOT investigate it is outrageous and absolutely not a tough one. I wonder if that's a product of them not wanting to investigate after the race and the usual complaints that brings. Personally, I don't mind when they do that.
@@Sumo-san "the fact is that (for some reason) they didn’t have his onboard. It’s hard to make that call without it." That doesn't even matter here, he was off track, gained an advantage and prevented an overtake. All of that is perfectly clear without the onboard. The onboard isn't required for them to clearly see that it was necessary to penalise a driver to illegally defended their position, at least you have to penalise the driver by forcing them to give up that position. Whether max did so intentionally, or what is visible on his onboard is only relevant for determining if he should receive additional punishment. "The stewards are not only there to enforce the rules and “fairness” of F1, they’re also there to make the sport more exciting for spectators." Making the sport more exciting for fans is the job of people who design tracks, make regulations, manage/create content, etc. The job of those enforcing rules should never be about creating excitement, their job has to be focused on maintaining fairness and integrity in the sport, otherwise it's no longer a sport, it's more like a sport-WWE hybrid. Sports make money through entertainment, but competitive integrity needs to be the priority for it to still be a sport rather than just entertainment.
@@misterbobEA hamilton copse cough cough he didnt get a penalty either cough cough while he clearly put max in the barrier at 300kmph and giving him no points cough cough while hamilton gained 26 cough cough
Max should learn from lewis how to do clean racing . Silverstone should be a great example for starting.pushing the other driver at 51g is the clean racing max should learn from lulu
@@neelampal7247 Yes honestly i think max should definitely definitely learn from lewis how to do drive better. He's been showing it ever since his debut, aggresive, dumb, relentless, fu**ing stubborn and most importantly a crybaby. Lewis is really great mentor for him.
@@neelampal7247 and you should learn to not use an example where Lewis got a 10 second penalty to try to prove your point 🤣. Because that is exactly what Max should get... Genius 🤣🤣🤣
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race. Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
@@emmacooper3177 Hamilton never went off track himself when doing those moves. Pushing off the track always happens, but I've never seen one going off the track himself so bad in order to achieve the pushing-off-the-track move
Lando and Perez got penalised because of the gravel 😂😂😂😂 the reason Hamilton didnt get penalised in turkey and verstappen didnt get penalised in brazil was because of the runoff
@@antonkirilenko3116 yeah but he makes up the F1 team that’s separate from the FIA. The F1 Nation podcast also disagrees with the stewarding decisions, it’s quite clear what’s happening
I agree with a 5 sec penalty but the incident should've stayed noted then so that verstappen would have known he had to push to maintain a 5 sec gap to Bottas. In this case the race directors declared that there was no need for a investigation, so Verstappen and Red Bull went on with that decision.
In Silverstone they approached the corner at 300kph, in Brazil it was less then 200kph. Two absolutely different situations. Lewis made a mistake out of desperation and put another driver into oblivion. It’s a big luck Max left without serious injuries,but imagine if he wouldn’t make it out of the car… 10 sec for this sounds like a spit in a face. To make an overtake on the outside you have to be brave enough cause it’s always a risk. ALWAYS. Those people who say Max could avoid contact in Silverstone are just meatheads. Cause by their logic,Max decided to send himself into a wall on 250-280kph. I can’t understand how dumb you should be to think it’s what happened.
The Silverstone incident is overblown in my opinion. Did Lewis deserve a penalty? Absolutely. But calling for a disqualification with the argument that a overtake can't be done into that corner is overkill, especially since he pretty much did the exact same thing against Leclerc, but without anyone crashing.
@@Roeland666 They made a decision there though... Or are you complaining because a) the "but silverstone" defence is only thing you have? and b) you believe that "10 seconds wasn't enough" despite the penality was applied to the letter of the rules.
@@Roeland666 Yes let's talk Silverstone, because there Lewis was on the inside, missed the apex, stayed on the track at the exit, and got a 10s penalty. Here Max was on the inside, missed the apex, went for a meet and greet with the fans before rejoining the track, and no investigation necessary?
That's normal, they only get what's broadcast during a race. The fact they needed it to know that he forced Lewis off track is what says it all ☺ He went so wide that they could have build a track next to the track and Max still wouldn't have been on that one either.
Funny how video conveniently goes missing or cameras stop working just when definitive proof would come in handy, not just in racing but in general too. However, in this case there was more than enough video to make the right call on the spot. Also, the stewards could have kept the investigation open until they gathered all evidence. Instead they were like "nope, nothing to see here . . ." Expect more shenanigans in these last races.
They do it with Lewis if he got 10 seconds for ending a race max should get nothing or 2 sec time penalty it’s pointless And he still finished how many seconds ahead? A 10 second penalty would do nothing and it’ll be inconsistent
It wasn’t needed to determine that Max forced Lewis off track, but it may have been useful in determining if he intended to do it. They SHOULD have investigated after the race. Irresponsible on their part, imo
@@georgetony8082 he should show the brake input max didn't lock but we don't know if he lift or he just don't turn to push lewis, as Palmera said I didn't look like max try to make a corner
@@redheadsg1 what are you saying what telemetry needs to be shown clearly max didn’t even try to make it in the corner didn’t turn the car what so ever
@@MrChrystz Actually i thought that would be ideal way to end the race at that point. Im not sure why he never done that perfect strategic move. I would done it for sure if i was him... Well, I was Schumacher's fan as well.
Yuki literally got a 10-sec penalty for divebombing Stroll. Does this mean that Max would have gotten a 10-sec penalty if Lewis turned in? What an absolute shitshow!!!
@@MrJayboi88 FIA race director Michael Masi has previously stated that they don't judge incidents based on their consequences, but action taken by drivers. So the contact shouldn't matter. And if contact resulted in harsher penalties, there will be more crashes (because drivers would just turn in on divebombs).
Spot on, and I'm glad he called out the inconsistency with the Norris decision, that would be my first point if appealing on behalf of merc. As awesome as Max is, this was PlayStation defending and his 'concede or collide' aggression really needs to be reprimanded.
Agreed. Max ended up 5 car widths off track (meaning you could fit 4 btwn his left side and the track line). The fact there wasn’t even an investigation is simply unfathomable.
He'll most definitely win this year , I'm not against him winning but I'm not actually sure if he deserves it .. Almost any time they get to race side by side and lewis will take the lead they crash .. It definitely works to your hands if you are leading in the points
I’m fine with „Let them race" and no one wants penalties after the end of a race. The now existing onboard view of VER doesn't maybe show that VER opens the steering, but for me it clearly fulfills "Forcing a driver off the track" or "Gaining an advantage by driving off the track". It just shows again how inconsistently the stewards evaluate/punish comparable scenes. Thanks for this professional and neutral analysis!
2019 austria max literally rammed into leclerc forcing him off the track. From the onboard you could see him turning the wheel into leclerc twice. He didnt receive a penalty there as well. So he shouldn’t now. The stuarts should have consistency. No damage was done to both cars, and lewis was clearly faster. So lewis would get him eventually. Unlike canada 2019 where lewis couldn’t get past seb, so he had to rely on the penalty to win. Bottas did not catch them, so now they are only trying to score free points
@@JKearns98 Here’s an answer. Max stayed on the track in Austria, while Max travels to Rio here in Brazil. Now I don’t know how you think Austria is supporting your case in any sense.
It is clear as day light for me. Max intentionally ran wide and forced Hamilton off the track. He had no problem if he caused a crash, since he has a big lead in points.
Ofc he would have nothing to lose. Hamilton did the same to him in Silverstone. It's just a heated battle for the title and they both want to win at any cost.
I would so sign a petition for him. I think he is so unbiased and even when he is against Hamilton (being a Ham fan) I trust his judgement because he is always fair.
I mean hindsight is 20/20. Palmer doing an analysis 4 days after ther race occured. Has all the time in the world to look at every angle and come to a conclusion.
They have clearly shown with changes made at the end of last year and the way they have handle incidents this year they want a closer struggle for the championship to make things more exciting to pull punters and viewers in!
@@Roeland666 please an assignation attempt hahahahahahaha give your head a wobble! We all know Max causes far more crashes than Lewis, he is well known for being a driver that wont back off in corners and everyone says "Oh that's just his style! it's hard racing!" yet when Lewis or someone else does it its dangerous or hahahahaha an assignation attempt! I've never heard anything so ludicrous in all my life!
It would be a tough job to be a steward, for sure. But "not wanting to decide the race based on a penalty" is impossible, because a lack of a decision is still deciding the race. That's why you can't base penalties off of outcomes, just what fits the situation.
Alonso did literally the very same move against Giovinazzi in America this year. He rightly had to give the place up.... This weekend the FIA were very unfair on Hamilton, just want to see a fair sport
@@rt-uh6mt only after he was heading straight off the track! Watch it again closely, a small amount of lock at the apex, which he missed by a mile. And then full lock when he was almost off the track, but still too much speed to remain on the racing surface.
I love how max has brought such a high standard of wheel to wheel racing to formula 1, like missing a corner completely and running a car clean off the track, into the distance, to maintain a position.
I love how lewis has brought such a high standard of wheel to wheel racing to formula 1, like missing a corner completely and punting a car straight into a wall at 50g to then get a slap on the wrist and still win the race.
high standart? that is the opposite of high standart. high standart would be keeping your opponent behind without the need of pushing him or yourself out of the track.
@@Mike23443 that was a 50/50 racing incident so the stewards correctly penalised Hamilton by identifying that he was only predominantly & not fully at fault. Stop living in the past; this incident in Brazil was 100% a 5 second penalty for Verstappen as EVERYONE knows including the biased stewards.
So NOW we have Max's onboard. Where was it before? Can you imagine the histrionic nonsense Christian Horner would be spouting had things been reversed?
Listen I get the “Lewis won anyways and penalizing Max wouldn’t change the outcome” But understand that if nothing is done, what’s to stop Max or any other drive from doing this again in the future? Max was clearly in the wrong and something has to be done or else it’s just plain inconsistency from the FIA. But then again it’s what they do so yeah lol
No, it’s still important despite the present outcome because with added penalty seconds which Max truly deserves, he will end up behind Bottas thus losing points in the championship. This really does need to be resolved in the proper manner. Lewis showed his worth in avoiding the accident, he may have the faster car but keeping out of trouble in this case was sheer brilliance on his behalf, that’s why he’s seven times world champion, worth every penny to Mercedes. Time after time he gets a result when others simply would not. For the record, I’m also a great supporter of Max, he is brilliant also but in this case he really should get at least a five or even a ten second penalty, sorry Max but that move was not acceptable.
Is #33 on many penalty points?? Could give him a solid amount, compounding on the black and white flag shown (being unsportsmanlike) to then threaten a potential race ban in the remaining stages.
if it comes to the logic of "avoiding this to happen in the future" then the Silverstone points should be removed from Ham, since obviusly the penalty was not enough for causing such a coillision, collision that never ocurred in Brazil this weekend.
Totally agree with "Let them race!", but I thought racing is done ON the track. Yes, being a steward is a hard job, but this was one of those cases like in football were you see the offside from a mile away, no need for a replay.
Max knew what he was doing he took a chance that the stewards would do nothing and got it right. Max is a fantastic driver but sometimes he has to yield if the other driver has made the move and outwitted him. I get that he doesn’t like to lose and battles hard but he crosses the line more than most on wheel to wheel racing in scenarios like this.
What you just described is also called cheating. He weaved across track to prevent any attempt, pushed HAM off the track - it's not a competitive sport anymore if one driver is held to a different standard from all the others. It's no better than WWE then.
He is prepared to crash, because he is winning. I truly believe he was expecting Lewis to turn in on him take them both out. Lewis is too smart for that. I liked max as a driver before today but I think he will do anything to win and that's not etiquette. Its dangerous.
I can't think of another year where the championship leader has routinely engineered situations where overtaking is guaranteed to result in a crash to maintain the championship lead. It's a VERY dangerous precedent and FIA seems to just accept this new "wipeout" defending strategy. If this becomes the norm, it'll end in tragedy.
I think this is just a build-up of years and years of inconsistency by stewarts and that they have been way to soft give out penalties. You can say penalties destroy racing, but drivers adapt to rules, look at Leclerc vs Verstappen Austria 2019, they had a nice battle until max force Charles off track, and after that Charles started to do it also.
Its more of F1 fans are not used to seeing p1 vs p2 battles... if there is no crash and no one lose a place, there is no need to give a penalty. "Just let them race"
all the drivers will get the memo that it's now ok to take the inside line and run opponents off track, very little over taking will be the result if this precedence sticks.
@@ameserich yeah lol everyoen be like : "Rules are rules" xD so funny. I wouldve turned off the stream if they had given penalty to verstappen. Just like in football, not every tackle worth the yellow card even when it looks bad to us, viewers.
This barely 7 minutes condensed version doesn't do justice to the whole analysis available in F1TV. He talked about everything including the steering traces as well as the other defensive moves made by Max. Seriously, it's a really awesome piece of work and will make you see the whole picture.
Mercedes is now pushing for a penalty after Lewis won anyway simply because that if Max gets even 5 seconds he loses the second place and Mercedes end up with a 1-2 finish.
I agree. After so many years of Lewis and Mercedes I would be happy to see someone else win this time. I was actually rooting a little bit for Max. But this is ridiculous. "Let them race" is all nice and fine, but then just throw all rules over board, because calling this a "tough" decision, is ridiculous. How much clearer does it need to get for seeing that Max had no chance to make this corner and ran a fellow competitor off the track? In my opinion, the stewards are making a fool out of themselves with decisions like this. There are sometimes decisions where you could say there is a grey zone, but here it was pretty clear. Yes, we don't want title decisions through penalties, but we also don't want title decisions through running others off the track.
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race. Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
no real advantage gained and lewis barely lost any time either due to the huge run off area, they are battlining for the WDC remember, there have been many cases of drivers in the same situation doing much worse. A penalty here makes no sense because it wouldn't have affected either of their results.
@@emmacooper3177 what does that have to do with anything? Your line of reasoning is similar to this dude murdered someone, but they guy he murdered had killed someone else in the past so we should let him go. Thats not how anything works. Each offense has its own penalty. Your argument is a fallacious argument.
I really do hope Ferrari give Leclerc a competitive car next year, at least on par with the redbulls. Then we will see Mad Max get a taste of his own medicine when Charles puts the frighteners on him like he did in Silverstone 2019.
Who knows what Ferrari will pump out for next year, Mercs could be the slowest and williams the fastest.. the new regs are gonna give us a complete reset for the most part..
Max was hoping for a collision , or both both being taken out which would have benefitted him the most, Lewis was much quicker and was going to pass Max at some point anyway and Max knew that, so he had nothing to lose by pulling that move.
Imagine a referee in football/soccer that doesn't blow a penalty kick in the world cup final when the defender aggressively slides in the legs of the attacker. After the game, he says "well I didn't want to influence the game" 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Huge props to the 7x WDC for avoiding the accident. Verstappen tried to Schumacher his way into the championship. 3 more races to go, this will be fun!
@@mikko3 If Max had used the presence of mind to avoid the crash, like Lewis did in Brazil, the crash wouldn't have happened either. Only reason Brazil wasn't a repeat of Silverstone was because Lewis was aware enough to give room when necessary. Max could have ran wide at Silverstone and then got the place back via the stewards rather than try and hang on and squeeze around the outside. Also, at Silverstone, Lewis actually turned into the corner and kept himself on the track. Here, at Brazil, Max didn't even attempt to make the corner, he just piled in straight on, with no intention to stay on the track.
The question is who benefits most if they both collided and both don't get any points from Brazil. That's why Max couldn't care less and Lewis back off in that incident. Need I say more?
He could be going in any of the next three races with mentality of just crashing himself and hamilton out and that most likely will happen and when it happens Verstappen should be penalised, even if it means taking the championship of of him. That's just how it is. Verstappen is just ridiculous, I'm sorry but at this point Hamilton doesn't even have a chance to fight him fairly.
@@zanperko3932 Hamilton is ridiculous. He DNF Max in silverstone and got a joke of a penalty and won 25 points whereas Max 0 and a destroyed car. Hamilton deserves bad karma for the next 3 races, that would be fair
I agree Jolyon, this is about as obvious a penalty as one could illustrate and yet the stewards and Michael Masi in particular are demonstrating just how inept and inconsistent they are. How much longer are we going to have to put up with Michael Masi's lack of leadership and poor decision making? What does it take for the incumbent to be fired/resign from any leadership position in any corporation? Your 20/20 hindsight analysis is again very illustrative and informative. If only we all had such insights during the fact (especially Mr Masi).
@@satiroseelfos Could be. I'm no Hamilton fan, bu what if Liberty want Max to win the Championship. It's in their interest. Would create more drama and avoid a repeat winner.
Let's face it, Max was disappointed with that move! Jolyon didn't say it but I would suggest that it appears Max would have been happy to take out Lewis and maintain his points lead. Great reactions from Lewis and a deserved win, shame the stewards didn't have a bit more bottle.
Two engines lost for red bull due to contact caused by Merc is way bigger penalty than 1 meaningless 10 second penalty. Had FIA let Red bull two free engine swaps and merc pay for the two complete chassis Fine penalize max. Letting this go is fine losing two engines purely due to contact initiated by Merc is a penalty in itself. Letting this ride not changing results makes things more fair overall. Had Max bumped Hamilton's rear left he may have been able to stay on the track sending Lewis into the wall would a ten second penalty been enough here had that been the case. One terrible call at Silverstone set up this whole smashem up attitude, FIA failed to make the point there we see the repercussions of it now.
@@Madmoody21 again, penalties are assigned not by the consequences but by the infraction itself like missing the apex or running another driver off track. it doesnt account for crashes...
First and foremost, the FIA are not above the scrutiny of F1 fans. Max's defense of Lewis was a gross violation of FIA regulations.. and with the FIA's refusal to enforce the established rules of competition, they set a dangerous precedent for how this championship proceeds. And, the FIA not having access to Max's onboard footage is a fabricated story, ..they willfully chose to allow their bias for Max to prevail, collectively looking to usher in a new era of F1.
@BobbyofEarth What bothers me about this, is that the FIA is supposed to be an independent body from F1. They are basically the judge and jury in racing, what the standing/championship are should never come into play with their assessments and/or actions.
I think max was probably trying to crash into Lewis. There's no way he can keep him behind. Better crash both cars and keep the points lead, something taken right out of Schumacher's playbook. Hamilton's reaction saved him.
@silverado punked I told me friend before it happened, that Max wouldn't let him pass without trying to do something dangerous or crashing. Max is Old School, "thou shall not pass".
This was clearly the most extreme case of a driver crowding another off the track the whole season, yet Max gets away with it. He didnt even try to make the apex. Let's hope Mercs appeal is upheld!!
Max backed off after tho so it wouldn't be fair to give him a 5 second penalty. If he knew he'd be penalised he would've gone harder to stay in front with the penalty
@@tastycookiechip This Max backing off thing is getting stale now. That's his and RB's problem, no one asked him to back off. Just goes to show you how confident Max and RB were of not getting penalized. If they knew a penalty was coming then they would have asked Max to keep within 5seconds of Lewis...
by not applying a penalty you're effecting the entire grid negatively not just the championship. Max shouldn't get special treatment over other drivers who have gotten a penalty for less
And Hamilton should have gotten a bigger penalty in Silverstone. At that time Max was on the outside and got slammed in the wall. Lewis did not try to make the corner and left a lot of space on the inside.
@@siddharthsuresh9285 no perez should have given the place back as he overtook lewis off the track, he done the same thing as max in bahrain. Defending your line on corner exit when your ahead is alot different to forcing some1 off the road on corner entry.
Analysis completely spot on, it’s such an obvious penalty. Lewis did win in the end but this is setting a dangerous precedent for both drivers. Just because they are in a title fight does that mean they can do whatever they want without being penalised??
Ok but if Hamilton Crash him its only 10 sec pan. and no ohne Talks about it later and Hamilton dont got. Crashed but it was Risk. but no were near like silverstone tbh and Hamilton pays FIA 100% its so dumb what Penalty he gets and other drivers get for less
Max is lucky that LH is experienced enough to back out of situations like this to avoid the crash, If it is the other way around Max would have simply hit Lewis and Christian Horner would be crying to the stewards.
Y'know I hadn't realised exactly how similar this is to Silverstone. Hamilton got the penalty there but just crickets from the stewards now its verstappen.
If you judge that Hamilton “had” the corner by the way he placed himself ahead of Verstappen and on the ideal racing line. Then the only reasonable judgment on this is that Verstappen gained the position back only by going off track. Thus, the position should be “given back” to Hamilton. Now… I don’t know this is a possible judgment in the rule books as the 5 second penalty would probably “override” this either way.
Max clearly stopped trying to turn and make the corner so he could push Lewis off track and stay first. How the FIA couldn't see that is really beyond me. And it's not a "difficult decision because it affects the title" because it's clear as day a penalty and on purpose. By trying not to affect the outcome of the title, you are affecting the outcome of the title.
The thing is, Jolyon here says "you don't want to see it decided by a stewarding decision", and I absolutely agree. But this CANNOT be taken as a perfectly fine defensive move, or we are going to see huge crashes become commonplace, as this would have been had Lewis not had the spacial awareness to see Max coming and bail out. It's a desperate move and it's dangerous, and a penalty needs to be levied against Max to show that this is not how you defend a position. Jeddah and Abu Dhabi have walls; lots of them. If we're allowed drivers to be forced off the track by desperate defensive moves, we will see multiple cars buried in them. if it's 50/50 if it's a penalty or not, let them race, let it go, but this is more obviously a penalty than any given this year. There is literally nothing else Lewis could have done except sit behind Max and let him win. He's been avoiding incidents by backing out all year, and it's getting tiresome. Lewis overtook 40 cars this weekend, and not one was forced off the road. Including this, Max overtook 2 - and both were. It's only the typical lap 1 leniency that stopped Max getting cited for forcing Valtteri off and T2 and gifting 2nd place to Checo. I'm all for a fight, but it needs to be fair and it needs to be to the rules. And this was neither.
@@malcp1237 No he's not. Max backed off for the rest of the race, if they told him penalty during the race then he would've raced hard to get a 5 second gap. It wouldn't be fair to hit him with the penalty now as he probably could've overtaken Hamilton again at the last minute if he knew he needed to gain 5 seconds of pace
@@tastycookiechip He backed off? He could have overtaken Hamilton again? Only in your imagination!! Remember ,Hamilton caught up to him from way back on the grid to get to this situation. If Verstappen was faster he would never have allowed Hamilton to catch up in the first place. And why would he back off once he was overtaken? Was he feeling generous and decided to give Hamilton the race?........after forcing him off the track?
It was deliberate max had no way of stopping the inevitable overtake from the pace of the Merc with 25+ laps to go. Defending an overtake would not put you that far off track a bit of snap oversteer would not put you that far off track there was no attempt to make the corner at all.
@@mabra33 the only reason there's no contact because ham evade, in silverstone max squeeze not evading(but this still count as more to lewis at fault and he got the penalty)
It’s clearly for me now, that after all the incidents that happened this year, that the FIA, the stewards, and Liberty Media wants for Max to be the champion. If this will be the case, Max will not be a true champion, he will just be someone that is satisfied with injustice and illegal moves. And he will be remembered in history for this, and I never would want to be in that position, ever.
Finally someone talking about track limits. Max didn't max the corner and as a result kept the lewd. It's an absolutely no brainer that's a penalty or reverse positions.
I believe they did it for sake of the show but at the same time they knew they would have to penalize Max in order to not make it a precedent so they reacted very quickly by not releasing the onboard footage to give a formal excuse for the stewards to not conduct any investigation just to release it later and review the case to penalize Max in the name of the rules.
@@derrickbush1146 well I think that you may call Monza and Brasil "ghost from Silverstone" ;) I really think that those situations are consequences of Silverstone crash, no matter what Lewis or Max say about this.
The answer is simple, in order to retain first position, Verstappen had to brake late which ended up with him going off the track and forcing Hamilton off in the process. Obvious penalty. Stewards got it wrong.
@@floydrespecter2483 because if he didn’t force Lewis off, he would have lost the position. Which means he gained a lasting advantage by bullying someone off track. Which is not allowed.
Happy to watch facts, thank you. This is Verstappen, he believes track is all his and that he does not have to pull back, several times this season… Hamilton knows him already as well as he knows that needs to finish and win ‘till the end to renew his title.
exactly, I've been saying this all season long, Max has been doing this bully move for way too long. And the two times Lewis didn't budge at least one of them didn't get to the finish line...
People say “Max doesn’t learn” and “Mad is dumb”. But he DOES learn and he’s NOT dumb. When the FIA say “no investigation required”, Max learns very well that there are rules for the midfield, and other rules for the Heir Apparent savior of F1. Don’t blame Max when his belligerence is tacitly accommodated. He simply adapta to how these incidents are called. But racing off track is a VERY dangerous precedent.
Even if I don’t agree with a rule it should be applied concisely for the whole season. Otherwise you encourage max to cheat by weaving and forcing other drivers off the track. And I am a neutral observer
@@matta4756 i actually thought that was a racing incident at the time and not really comparable in this instance as they were both on the track and only wide of the apex
Finally. And the only correct conclusion. I get why Max had to go for it, but if you're going to throw one up the inside from a car length back you need to make the corner yourself at bare minimum - and whether he was putting on enough lock to make the apex or not, he got nowhere close to doing that. Poor driving. Whether or not Max gets a retrospective reprimand (a slap on the wrist is better than nothing, given Lewis won anyway and this kind of move shouldn't be encouraged), the stewards need to make sure they have instant access to all onboard cameras for the remaining races - because these guys are going to tangle again and next time it could decide the championship.
I do agree with you, however I think any kind of post-race penatly (except a fine) would have way too big of an impact, much bigger than a 5s penalty would have had in this case. I don't know if it is the right decision at this point, however I also agree this behaviour should be discouraged. Also I think we can all agree that the penalty system and the stewarding system need to be rethought. We need objectivity, so we need the same stewards every time. We also need (imo) to penalise not only based on the action but based on the consequence as well, as it is in real life courts. This should further discourage attempts at bending the rules.
Fair assessment! MV made no effort to make that corner, he made the decision to run wide well before that corner. I really hope thet put him in his place, sooner rather than later
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race. Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
@@emmacooper3177 if they don't penalize Max he might do it again and could potentially result to crash. Given the fact that he still leads the championship battle, there's a possibility that he do it again and still win the championship title.
@@emmacooper3177 Notice all the example you stated, Hamilton actually made the corner. Max Lewis three 3 car widths of the track. There's no sense in what your saying. By the way USA Hamilton pushed Max wide because Max aggressively tried to pin him in the pit exit lane.
Mate, that literally reminds me of Silverstone. Hamilton needed to get Max on Lap 1 or he'd never catch him, and he ended up taking Max out. And now Max does this. Both of them have done it to each other
Sorry, but the two incidents aren't remotely alike, other than the involved drivers being the same and being a general "dispute over the racing line" - which basically all incidents are
@@knutpohl339 Well I’m not comparing the two incidents. I understand what you mean but having watched the last incident at least I saw Verstapen push Hamilton outside when the latter had already passed him easily with the DRS as shown in the video. Yes in general terms it is a racing incident as most of them are but (to me) and the guy showing the video at least is pretty obvious that this is a violation. Not sure where the limits of the racing laws fade exactly though
@@pantnick my sincere apologies! I have no clue how my comment ended up here but it was intended for a comment above or below yours. So sorry. Especially, as I agree with you.
Thought experiment: Imagine Max was attempting to overtake Lewis here, and had drafted Lewis down the straight and then pulled out to the inside as they approached the corner. They would be in exactly the same situation on corner entry in this hypothetical as they were in the real incident. And then, imagine that Max does the same move from that moment that he actually did - i.e., sends it up the inside without any hope of making the corner, completely blows the exit by 20 meters or more, forces Lewis off, and takes the lead. This would be an immediate penalty, no question. My view is that this hypothetical scenario and the actual incident are identical as far as the rules are concerned, and should have been treated equally.
They are not as you explain in one scenario you're defending a position and in another you're gaining a position. And look at the Styria 2020 overtake from Stroll on Ricciardo, it's the exact scenario you describe and no penalty was given.
@@nielsvanheteren Maybe you did not notice this, but Lewis was ahead of Max as they began braking. In case you are not aware, in Formula 1 racing, when Car A is behind Car B and then passes Car B, Car A has gained a position.
@@Jct421 LOL. It's a great point and interesting to consider how differently we judge various incidents based on what was going on in the race 1 or 2 corners before, or laps before, or a season before. When really all that matters is what happens between the 100m board and the corner exit.
@@Jct421 so when a car is 1mm he has by your own definiton passed a car? Seems a little bit of an anti racing definiton of overtaking. But whatever suits your narrative right.
"We don't want to see championships decided by penalty" - agree Jolyon but please don't let that be a defence when Max does this again and gets away with it. Fans deserve better. If we wanted comedy rules, pre-ordained champions and one sided refereeing most of us would watch WWE instead.
Yeah its just annoying watching max lead the championship because the fia looks the other way when he does these thing while other drivers are getting penalties for the same thing or less incidents. He has the best car this year he doesn't need anymore help than he is getting now. It's clear he hasn't matured that much and still can't race wheel to wheel
It now just opens it up to later races, if Hamilton does it to Max, then the steward's CAN'T penalise him... They have backed themselves into a corner now
Bro… Hamilton got Max in the hospital and got niced with his penalty. Hamilton is probably the only driver on the grid that gets niced whatever he does.
Max just paid them 50K dinner and having sleep over, now their job become "difficult" ! Max: Perfect, say "Hi" ! You're Chinese so you know how that feel.
When you compare how he approached the corner on previous laps, Verstappen basically moved the apex by about 15-20 meters toward the outside and down the track. It's all about letting them race XD
Lets face it Max saw the performance of that Mercedes after the upgrade and instantly thought i'll do anything to keep ahead on points even if i have to take us both out of the race. That is the only logical explanation to being that far off the track without losing traction.
If he wanted to take Hamilton out he would have turned in to the limit and probably skidded to the side into Hamilton. He chose not to take it to the limit with Hamilton next to him. At no point he has to correct a slide and he does not slide twoards Hamilton. He therefore chooses not to approach the grip limit with Hamilton next to him. He tried a move and it was to much, but he then kept a safe line through the run-off so that there would be no slide twoards Hamilton.
@@Ewoudvdv what safe line? You are delusional my friend. The only reason they did not crash is because Hamilton avoided it. End of story. Stop with your sliding and grip limit nonsense.
Anybody with functioning eyes knows that this should've been a penalty even with their blinders on. Not sure how anyone can be dumb enough to convince themselves that it was just a racing incident and Verstappen did nothing wrong there.
@@eeesh5600 Yes, it was. And that's exactly why DRS destroyed F1. You simply can't defend your position when the car behind you is 45 kilometers faster than you on the straights. It takes no skill at all to overtake nowadays.
Max's movement is typical of him. If the other car is even deeper in the bend max use that car to stay on the track itself, as is the 2018 Spa against Raikkonen. Classic Rallycross overtake movement. Would someone else go unpunished because of "let them race"? If it had been the other way around?
This seems so blatant that it could taint the final outcome of the season, if Max squeezes out the championship by a few points. If he gets away with this credibility is lost in a very big way.
@@Filthyanimal9 Bottas failed to measure the brake force necessary due to the heavy rain conditions. However, at least he didn't seem to make an effort on putting his competitor off track and ruining their race. If I recall correctly, in Barcelona, Verstappen also attempted a ride or die situation similar to this. Either he gets ahead or both are out
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race. Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
How in the world is that ok‽ Also, there's a strong similarity between this incidence and the Silverstone incidence, the only difference being, Hamilton didn't turn in pretending Verstappen isn't there ...
wow go ahead and make it seem like SIlverstone was maxes fault. in both cases the drivers inside the corner were at fault. max should ahve been penalized during the race here. end of story
@@allorfh2495 He's not saying it's Max's fault, he's just saying that Max is always aggressive regardless of his positioning anf never avoids a collision, while also saying that it was essentially the same move by the guy on the inside meaning by that logic Max should get a 10s penalty
And what a world of difference that makes! How many times have Max yielded this season? NONE! Hamilton has had to yield or they crash. The times that none of them have yielded, they've crashed. How much longer are they going to tolerate Max's "my corner or we crash" mentality?
@@antonyhobet Thanks for doing that so I don't have to. Could you try and say it loud enough for the back-benchers in the future though ... much appreciated.
@@emilegc He keeps doing it because he never gets any deterrent not to. Also the mentality of 'oh we don't want to spoil the spectacle by awarding penalties' is such a weak one. Are we to prioritize spectacle over the safety of drivers? And why have rules at all then? If spectable and not intelligence on the track is the goal, why not just have a free for all demolition derby on the track and the last man standing wins?
Lewis' biggest challenge for the remainder of the races could be avoiding a crash with Max, which he did so brilliantly here, and again making sure of that when he finally did overtake Max. 😎 Makes me wonder what the stewards' reaction would've been if he had taken out Lewis on this occasion.
Three place grid penalty. Wouldn't hurt him if he's won the championship already. And no one is even talking about weaving on the straight while another car was within DRS. Max must be feeling like the rules do not apply to him
They really HAVE TO look at each situation in the context of the championship, the way Max drove there it was obvious he didnt mind Lewis crashing into his side.
Championship battle shouldnt have affect their decision because if Max was given a 5 second penalty Bottas would have been 2nd so its also not fair on Bottas as well
That’s my exact point no one realises bottas was only 3 seconds behind so max would have lost more points and there be shorter difference on points. Hamilton barely gets decisions his way 😒😒
What a great analysis. Just because F1 wants Crashstappen to win, they need to be more subtle about it! This will have the opposite effect of what F1 desires ... they will lose fans if they continue using this psychopath as their ramming rod.
Ham took ver out at over 50 G’s and only got 10 second penalty. I agree ver should have a penalty for this incident however if ver got a penalty Hamilton’s incident at silverstone should have been a lot lot worse looking at the difference in how serious they were.
@@ILostYourSoul it was vers corner in silverstone, he is on the racing line. Ham should have braked earlier (car on inside needs to brake earlier to make the corner since the angle is tighter) so he could make the apex which he was never making since he didn’t brake hard or early enough
The silverstone incident for me shouldnt have been a penalty. Ham didnt try to force vestappen off the track but push him wide yes. Vestappen for me just didnt yield and they ended up colliding. Racing incident with more Hamilton to blame. But Brazil incident is Vestappen deliberatly out braking himself, effectivly straight lining the corner just so hamilton cant pass on the outside. It the same as blocking a driver on a straight preventing them from overtaking.
great analysis. most people thought the same. there's wheel to wheel racing, and there's trying to avoid crashing into max. imagine max and yuki on the same team.
@@leonardrosser6353 That was unfair of Seb labeling Kvyat the Torpedo. Their first 'incident' happened because Seb left the door open and Daniil made a legitimate pass down the inside of the corner. They didn't even touch. Seb collided with teammate Kimi though...(can't throw him under the bus... not that it was his fault either). Seb gave him the name in the winner's waiting area. At the next race they do collide (twice which ends Seb's race) but it wasn't on purpose. The ultimate result was Max ascending to the A team.
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race. Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
@@emmacooper3177 guess what also isn’t fair forcing another driver off the track and leaving the track gaining a lasting advantage. Also Red Bull should have been aware that something like this could have happened.
@@hansfromcongo6322 it isn't fair that Hamilton and Buttass ruined Max's (in silverstone) and Checo's (Hungary) races while they got a joke of a penalty. The balance was not fair, both Redbull drivers lost a LOT of points and ended with badly damaged cars while the lucky Mercedes drivers went away fine. THIS was not fair. They deserve bad karma in the result of the next races 🤞🤞
Max habitually forces other drivers off the track, its part and parcel of his driving style, so much so the stewards let him get away with it and forget he's breaking the rules. The fact he ain't black helps him too!!!
That’s why I like Jolyon’s analysis of these things - he says it as he sees it. No fluffy, dancing around the topic or sitting on the fence - just plain old fashioned honesty. Thanks!
That's the only thing he can do well.
Personally I think hes so besotted byHamilton that his comments here actually devalue the argument.
He would do better to let the lawmakers review it and stick to commentating at the same level he raced. Mediocrity.
Looked back on what he said about Silverstoune incident. Old fashioned hard racing - no penalty needed. I believe that is saying everything. Palmer was an average racing driver and is average F1 analyst - can't hold back and take British corner. F1 is GLOBAL sport not British national sport.
@@rodneylowe9526 Considering he was able to get a F1 drive I don't think you could call his driving mediocrity. So you think he is bias towards Hamilton well it sounds to be you are bias towards Max.
Except that he sees everything with the Hamilton spectacles! Scroll back to the silverstone analysis to see for yourself.
The fact that F1 have the technology to find out that Hamilton’s DRS wing was out by 0.2mm but couldn’t show and broadcast a camera view that could of been game changing to the world championship is mind blowing
This truly baffles me.
@@HCShuffle you’re not getting the point
Jeez, there are thinfoil hats here also
Game changing us maybe a small overstatement haha, Hamilton wouldve taken it anyway and a 5 sec penalty wouldnt have made any difference between max and bottas, result wouldve been the same
You do realize all they do is put an object in the gap and see if it passes through right?
The fact that Max goes outside the track himself, by a lot, is the worst thing about this defensive move. I can accept a driver pushing a driver out in the heat of the moment, but he has to make the turn himself or else it's just ridiculous.
@Gustavo Araujo I agree!
@Gustavo Araujo i agree, they should penalised max as soon as on lap 50.
@@ISirSmoke They floored the throttle when they had enough angle. How on earth can they turn back immediately at such a fast corner?
@Gustavo Araujo Red Bull were pushing for more punishment after Silverstone this year, so with doing that they STATED they think it is fair to issue penalty after the race!
@Gustavo Araujo I think what merc really wants is to humiliate the fia into admitting that they were wrong in prematurely dismissing the incident. This is then getting back at the drs dq
There’s no way max is running that far out if it’s a gravel trap…he knew what he was doing, end of. Deserved a penalty at the time and definitely deserves one now, even if Lewis still won!
You are right, he probably wouldn't have gone that far out if there was a gravel trap.... but you also don't want to make abrupt steering adjustments on painted surfaces. He was too late on the breaks and didn't want to pinch the turn when he didn't have to. Late on the breaks throws all the weight to the front of the car which makes the rear tires have significantly less grip. If you make an abrupt steering input when the rear end is light, it's extremely easy to spin.
It doesn't make it right but I don't necessarily think he was trying to run him off the track. It's instinctual for driver to open up the steering a bit in that type of situation to avoid a spin. It's also fun to watch these guys battle which is extremely hard to do at such high speeds and limited space.... F1 cars take up a lot of space. If you start throwing penalties at risky moves during the first title fight we've seen in years, it's going to take the excitement out of it. This type of stuff is great for the sport. Even if the roles were reversed, I'd much rather see Lewis make a risky block vs letting Max by on the straight.
True, The thing is Max has done this before, with Leclerc for the race win in Austria 2019, and for ppl who just want see hard and fair racing, the car on the inside should always leave a cars-width for the driver on the outside, gravel or no gravel... Lewis just learned from that and passed Max on the straight instead of corner, to avoid that situation again...
I agree with everything until the last sentence about it being a difficult job making a decision because it’s a title battle.
The fact it’s a title battle should have relevance at all. All incidents should be investigated based on the incident alone with all evidence available. It’s doesn’t matter if it’s for the WDC or for 10th these incidents like this should be investigated fairly & equally regardless is what place the drivers are fighting for.
You can’t allow any drivers to be getting away with punishable offences “for the sake of the show” as it sets a dangerous precedence for the future.
Couldn't agree more. If it's a clear penalty, drivers should be punished regardless of the title fight.
This is the comment I have been looking for. It's simple logic. Penalties are for endangering another driver's safety, not for or against ratings. The standards don't change when it's a title race! So would Max have been penalized if he did it to Mazepin? Ridiculous!
Having Liberty media in charge of things really harming the sport
@@TheMrakic It was worse before when Bernie was in charge.
👏🏾
FIA - "we looked at it completely"
FIA 2 days later - "oh yeah we didn't have onboards"
I find it ridiculous that they didn't have onboards to begin with tbh
Yeah that seems really sketchy how they have onboard for lewis but conveniently don’t for max. How are they even supposed to conduct an investigation if they don’t have onboards. Seems like intentional negligence to me.
You don't need onboard to decide.
Except they never looked at it completely. The incident was noted but given the available views did not warrant a full investigation according to the stewards. Only when they actually investigate will they pull all the information that is not publicly available like the onboards that have not been broadcast or telemetry.
@@Hans-gb4mv Correct, that's the point of my comment.
I am actually surprised that no one is discussing how quickly Lewis reacted to avoid that collision. He braked perfectly to make the corner, he started to turn left and suddenly he had to react because Max in this particular scenario, definitely wanted a collision.
That's why he has 7 WDCs, and I don't understad why people say it's the car, like yeah it's fast, but not everyone could do it, if I get in there I don't think I can even make 7 corners, let alone 7 WDCs
Lewis anticipated it.. he remembers very well who Max "This is what happens when you don't leave space" Verstappen is....
Hamilton exactly knows that Verstappen will try to do that move especially since Max is ahead in points and in case a collision happens it will be in his favor.
lewis knows everytime around the outside max will try to wreck him. he probably saw that max braked idiotically late.
It's Max unlike all the others he passed previously, Lewis expected that.. he's also the same guy fighting a Force India on fresh hyper soft costing him the race win.. instead letting him unlap himself he proceeded to squeeze Ocon on the apex & unlike Lewis he kept his ground & Max ended up spawning
It still baffles me that not only did he throw himself at Hamilton on that corner which could've easily ended up in an DNF for both (ultimately benefiting himself). But then there was all the weaving through the straight as well. It's sad to see that someone with such a lack of sportsmanship can one day be a world champion just, because stewards don't want to do their job.
By not applying penalties because you "don't want to affect the championship" you are inherently affecting the championship.
Teams all race in a set of rules and regulation (A formula) and they know that if they break it they will be penalised and potentially DSQ.) If you are not applying those same rules and codes then drivers will abuse those rules if they know they won't be penalised. And we know penalties are rarely applied fairly or equally.
Well said
exactly! surely it's the driver affecting the championship when they break the rules
Cough copse and Hungary cough
@@UUUU-dn9wz legend said still waiting albonnn onboard
Its as if you were ref for the Football World Cup Finals and just let it go to 120 minute overtime even though its not tied because the game ending on a lame 0-1 would be really anticlimactic
the thing is, was Lewis still technically in Brazil? i mean he was pushed so far he might of needed to come back through customs.
HAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA YOU GENIUS
Best one yet 😂😂😂
LOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
😆
@Juventin That was funny!!!
Here’s the issue. Stewards are supposed to judge solely on action, not on consequence. But all this year they’ve been looking at the consequences. Lando got a penalty for pushing Sergio into the gravel while other drivers haven’t for doing the same thing on tarmac runoffs
I have seen this comment everywhere, and Matt from WTF1 repeating it over and over. What's the original source? Is it in the regs that consequence shouldn't be taken into account?
It seems to me that consecuenes very much matter for the stewards.
Spot on, so because Hamilton avoids contact they deemed it ok, if Hamilton had stayed on his line and verstappen drove into him as would of happened if Hamilton didn’t take avoiding action then they would of given a penalty. That’s not how applying penalties should work
I've noticed that a few more times the last one I remember was with vettel avoiding a collision by Carlos .. so basically if you don't avoid there will be a penalty for the other driver ,but if you do everything to avoid a collision and the other driver gains position so it's "all about let them race"
What a yoke
@@eden5260 just to remember you that Max did not gain any position in this incident, cause he was ahead of Lewis along the corner
@@davilins6211 He gained a position, he was behind when Hamitlon turned his wheel to make the corner.
"AALL THE TIME YOU HAVE-A TO LEAVE-A DA SPACE"
Where is Palmer?
@@Rishic911 is on Karma TH-cam Channel
MOONLIGHT GUDANCEEE
He doesn’t take his own advice
Said by the guy who pushed people out of space
The fact this wasn’t even investigated still blows my mind
Ohh it will this weekend i hope redbull get a 5 grid penalty
@@eduardofindlay4518 3 grid penalty is enough, i mean verstappen didnt crash hamilton out like bottas did to verstappen in hungary
@@eduardofindlay4518 cope
@@eduardofindlay4518 5 PLACES ?
Bottas took three at hungary and Max three at monza, pls be objective.
@@DaVoKanfr Up to a day like today, Max has never served that 3 place grid penalty from Monza. He only took the engine penalty which dropped him to the back of the grid since it was a 4th engine.
Stewards sometimes have tough decisions. But, how is this a tough decision? He's nowhere near making the corner, drives multiple car widths outside the track, and prevents the overtake. If such actions are allowed, it makes overtaking on the outside almost impossible and very risky because the driver on the inside can push you off the track as much as they want. Not penalising this doesn't 'encourage racing', it heavily discourages overtakes in corners.
I understand and somewhat agree with your point but I would say even this decision, yes, was a tough decision in the moment. Either way it swings people will be upset. Either way it swings it will effect the outcome of the championship. That is not an easy job. The stewards are not only there to enforce the rules and “fairness” of F1, they’re also there to make the sport more exciting for spectators. And, although Max’s move was quite obvious, the fact is that (for some reason) they didn’t have his onboard. It’s hard to make that call without it.
@@Sumo-san You could argue whether this is a penalty or not is a difficult decision (I think it IS a penalty and not a difficult decision), but the decision to NOT investigate it is outrageous and absolutely not a tough one.
I wonder if that's a product of them not wanting to investigate after the race and the usual complaints that brings. Personally, I don't mind when they do that.
@@Sumo-san "the fact is that (for some reason) they didn’t have his onboard. It’s hard to make that call without it."
That doesn't even matter here, he was off track, gained an advantage and prevented an overtake. All of that is perfectly clear without the onboard. The onboard isn't required for them to clearly see that it was necessary to penalise a driver to illegally defended their position, at least you have to penalise the driver by forcing them to give up that position. Whether max did so intentionally, or what is visible on his onboard is only relevant for determining if he should receive additional punishment.
"The stewards are not only there to enforce the rules and “fairness” of F1, they’re also there to make the sport more exciting for spectators."
Making the sport more exciting for fans is the job of people who design tracks, make regulations, manage/create content, etc. The job of those enforcing rules should never be about creating excitement, their job has to be focused on maintaining fairness and integrity in the sport, otherwise it's no longer a sport, it's more like a sport-WWE hybrid. Sports make money through entertainment, but competitive integrity needs to be the priority for it to still be a sport rather than just entertainment.
apparently they don't even have other angles of cameras 😂😂😂
@@misterbobEA hamilton copse cough cough he didnt get a penalty either cough cough while he clearly put max in the barrier at 300kmph and giving him no points cough cough while hamilton gained 26 cough cough
I'm all for "let them race" as long as said racing is done on the race track, not in the car park where Max did his racing.
Max should learn from lewis how to do clean racing . Silverstone should be a great example for starting.pushing the other driver at 51g is the clean racing max should learn from lulu
Was he even in the same post code.
@@neelampal7247 Great. Then let's get a 10sec penalty
@@neelampal7247 Yes honestly i think max should definitely definitely learn from lewis how to do drive better. He's been showing it ever since his debut, aggresive, dumb, relentless, fu**ing stubborn and most importantly a crybaby. Lewis is really great mentor for him.
@@neelampal7247 and you should learn to not use an example where Lewis got a 10 second penalty to try to prove your point 🤣. Because that is exactly what Max should get... Genius 🤣🤣🤣
How calm was Lewis after that turn 4 push off!! He was on a mission!!
If anything it fuelled him even more
@@georgekachaje8936 fuel with?
@@richarddijin2295 Anger: "You really think you can crash me off? I'll show you that I can beat you" kind of thing.
Here after Saudi GP. Lewis has been dealing with this kind of antics the whole season. He pretty much got used to it 😂
@@georgekachaje8936 Saw it again in Saudi, pulled fastest laps with a broken front wing after Verstappen, well, did a Verstappen.
How on earth this is not a 5sec time pen when Lando and Perez’s incident at Austria is. The lack of consistency from the stewards has been appalling
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race.
Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
@@emmacooper3177 Hamilton never went off track himself when doing those moves. Pushing off the track always happens, but I've never seen one going off the track himself so bad in order to achieve the pushing-off-the-track move
@@emmacooper3177 Who can forget Silverstone?
@@SuSmallville last time I checked Hamilton was still on the track
Lando and Perez got penalised because of the gravel 😂😂😂😂 the reason Hamilton didnt get penalised in turkey and verstappen didnt get penalised in brazil was because of the runoff
I’m glad to see F1 isn’t going to agree with the FIA decisions all the time and actually have their own say. Respect ✊
It's actually Palmer's personal perspective, not Formula 1 as a whole.
@@antonkirilenko3116 yeah but he makes up the F1 team that’s separate from the FIA. The F1 Nation podcast also disagrees with the stewarding decisions, it’s quite clear what’s happening
Palmer is a British guy
I agree with a 5 sec penalty but the incident should've stayed noted then so that verstappen would have known he had to push to maintain a 5 sec gap to Bottas. In this case the race directors declared that there was no need for a investigation, so Verstappen and Red Bull went on with that decision.
@@gpw203 I do think it was a great comeback. But the speed differnce was something else🤣 Reminded me of Mercedes in the beginning of the hybrid era.
Palmer knows a thing or two about "he push me off the track, he needs to give me back the position"
*KARMA*
@@vatti_33 Nice yoke
oh no not the CHIKEN
@@Lowdo1549 1
@@Lowdo1549 ¹
Red Bull: “Let them race”
Also Red Bull: “He was nowhere near making that corner. Lewis needs to be disqualified”
Sad but true.
But max could make the turn but just didn’t steer
In Silverstone they approached the corner at 300kph, in Brazil it was less then 200kph. Two absolutely different situations. Lewis made a mistake out of desperation and put another driver into oblivion. It’s a big luck Max left without serious injuries,but imagine if he wouldn’t make it out of the car… 10 sec for this sounds like a spit in a face. To make an overtake on the outside you have to be brave enough cause it’s always a risk. ALWAYS. Those people who say Max could avoid contact in Silverstone are just meatheads. Cause by their logic,Max decided to send himself into a wall on 250-280kph. I can’t understand how dumb you should be to think it’s what happened.
The Silverstone incident is overblown in my opinion. Did Lewis deserve a penalty? Absolutely.
But calling for a disqualification with the argument that a overtake can't be done into that corner is overkill, especially since he pretty much did the exact same thing against Leclerc, but without anyone crashing.
@@radeoradeo5743 out come doesn’t matter , max could have broken a leg and it still would have 10 seconds lol
"You don't want a championship decided by a stewards decision"
Yes, but you don't want a championship decided by a stewards indecision either!
Lets talk silverstone
@@Roeland666 hamilton literally got a 10 second penalty
@@Roeland666 They made a decision there though... Or are you complaining because a) the "but silverstone" defence is only thing you have? and b) you believe that "10 seconds wasn't enough" despite the penality was applied to the letter of the rules.
@@Roeland666 Yes let's talk Silverstone, because there Lewis was on the inside, missed the apex, stayed on the track at the exit, and got a 10s penalty. Here Max was on the inside, missed the apex, went for a meet and greet with the fans before rejoining the track, and no investigation necessary?
@@Roeland666 a decision was made with all the data present. Irrelevant comment but come on then. Let's indeed talk about Silverstone.
The fact the stewards didnt have Max's onboard camera says it all.
That's normal, they only get what's broadcast during a race. The fact they needed it to know that he forced Lewis off track is what says it all ☺ He went so wide that they could have build a track next to the track and Max still wouldn't have been on that one either.
They could have asked for telemetry data and see the steering angle and the throttle input for themselves. Those two alone tell the story pretty much.
Funny how video conveniently goes missing or cameras stop working just when definitive proof would come in handy, not just in racing but in general too. However, in this case there was more than enough video to make the right call on the spot.
Also, the stewards could have kept the investigation open until they gathered all evidence. Instead they were like "nope, nothing to see here . . ."
Expect more shenanigans in these last races.
They do it with Lewis if he got 10 seconds for ending a race max should get nothing or 2 sec time penalty it’s pointless
And he still finished how many seconds ahead?
A 10 second penalty would do nothing and it’ll be inconsistent
It wasn’t needed to determine that Max forced Lewis off track, but it may have been useful in determining if he intended to do it. They SHOULD have investigated after the race. Irresponsible on their part, imo
The analysis everyone was waiting for!
Quite weak analysis, he didn't show any telemetry.
@@redheadsg1 he didn't have to go to telemetry because there is nothing more to tell, max took a lot of speed and couldn't break
@@georgetony8082 he should show the brake input max didn't lock but we don't know if he lift or he just don't turn to push lewis, as Palmera said I didn't look like max try to make a corner
@@redheadsg1 what are you saying what telemetry needs to be shown clearly max didn’t even try to make it in the corner didn’t turn the car what so ever
@@facealexitohdnp does it matter? Whichever it is, he didn’t try to make the corner.
He was genuinely ready to crash in that moment. Knowing he'll keep the 20 point lead.
It was 21 point lead.
@@MrChrystz Actually i thought that would be ideal way to end the race at that point. Im not sure why he never done that perfect strategic move. I would done it for sure if i was him... Well, I was Schumacher's fan as well.
@@unwokeneuropean3590 He tried. Hamilton was too smart and reacted too quickly otherwise they would've crashed for sure.
@@unwokeneuropean3590 You are a disgrace to the sport
@@tnrosbergb Cry me a river
Yuki literally got a 10-sec penalty for divebombing Stroll. Does this mean that Max would have gotten a 10-sec penalty if Lewis turned in? What an absolute shitshow!!!
His dive bomb resulted in contact so it's a harsher penalty
@@MrJayboi88 So was Hamilton’s in Silverstone and he only got 5sec penalty.
@@MrJayboi88 this one didn't result in a contact just because Hamilton went like 15 meters off the track (and the track allowed him to do so)...
@@09Mrsubaru he got 10 seconds
@@MrJayboi88 FIA race director Michael Masi has previously stated that they don't judge incidents based on their consequences, but action taken by drivers. So the contact shouldn't matter. And if contact resulted in harsher penalties, there will be more crashes (because drivers would just turn in on divebombs).
The "I stay ahead or we crash" mentality in defensive action here
Most Max fans: "Hard racing" 😂
This isn't a circus 🤦♂️
So basicly Max driving style during the whole season... Such a kid.
Something that max learnt from the Hamilton School of racing
@@mikecollinmanalo6795 everyone who wants to know hard racing is must watch Alonso's defense on Hamilton
Spot on, and I'm glad he called out the inconsistency with the Norris decision, that would be my first point if appealing on behalf of merc. As awesome as Max is, this was PlayStation defending and his 'concede or collide' aggression really needs to be reprimanded.
Agreed. Max ended up 5 car widths off track (meaning you could fit 4 btwn his left side and the track line). The fact there wasn’t even an investigation is simply unfathomable.
@@2005StangMan Liberty want their money.
He'll most definitely win this year , I'm not against him winning but I'm not actually sure if he deserves it ..
Almost any time they get to race side by side and lewis will take the lead they crash ..
It definitely works to your hands if you are leading in the points
@@eden5260 Silverstone??
Senna used to do the same thing, so why cry when Verstappen does it too
Drivers are smart enough to get out of Verstappen’s way. They know he’d rather cause a wreck than surrender an overtake
I’m fine with „Let them race" and no one wants penalties after the end of a race. The now existing onboard view of VER doesn't maybe show that VER opens the steering, but for me it clearly fulfills "Forcing a driver off the track" or "Gaining an advantage by driving off the track". It just shows again how inconsistently the stewards evaluate/punish comparable scenes. Thanks for this professional and neutral analysis!
2019 austria max literally rammed into leclerc forcing him off the track. From the onboard you could see him turning the wheel into leclerc twice. He didnt receive a penalty there as well. So he shouldn’t now. The stuarts should have consistency. No damage was done to both cars, and lewis was clearly faster. So lewis would get him eventually. Unlike canada 2019 where lewis couldn’t get past seb, so he had to rely on the penalty to win. Bottas did not catch them, so now they are only trying to score free points
@@JKearns98 Here’s an answer. Max stayed on the track in Austria, while Max travels to Rio here in Brazil. Now I don’t know how you think Austria is supporting your case in any sense.
@@JKearns98Honestly Max deserved a penalty in both cases.
Neutral hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
same should be said for silverstone, which was an assassination attempt
It is clear as day light for me. Max intentionally ran wide and forced Hamilton off the track. He had no problem if he caused a crash, since he has a big lead in points.
Exactly, Max did the same thing @ Monza and crashed them both. If they had crashed in Brazil he wouldn't care either
Ofc he would have nothing to lose. Hamilton did the same to him in Silverstone. It's just a heated battle for the title and they both want to win at any cost.
@@overplayofficial8222 Hamilton didn't crash into Max intentionally though. Silverstone was also mainly due to Max refusing to back off.
same should be said for silverstone, which was an assassination attempt
We found a Hamilton simp bois
Why isn't Jolyon Palmer the roaming steward for all the races, like it or not his analysis is on point!
Because stewards have to be unbias
I would so sign a petition for him. I think he is so unbiased and even when he is against Hamilton (being a Ham fan) I trust his judgement because he is always fair.
Are you sure? I would bet the differ, just see his analysis of the British GP...
@@brownbabyuk10 😂😂😂😂He is not Ham fan please come on 😂😂😂😂😂
I mean hindsight is 20/20. Palmer doing an analysis 4 days after ther race occured. Has all the time in the world to look at every angle and come to a conclusion.
This is not one of the difficult decisions the stewards have had to make. It’s straight forward unless they are protecting max
Yes, I thought the very same thing with the Hamilton Verstappen incident at Silverstone, but that went in Hamiltons favour.
They have clearly shown with changes made at the end of last year and the way they have handle incidents this year they want a closer struggle for the championship to make things more exciting to pull punters and viewers in!
@Anthony Marks Silverstone was Maxi's fault ? 😂 Think again mate !
same should be said for silverstone, which was an assassination attempt
@@Roeland666 please an assignation attempt hahahahahahaha give your head a wobble! We all know Max causes far more crashes than Lewis, he is well known for being a driver that wont back off in corners and everyone says "Oh that's just his style! it's hard racing!" yet when Lewis or someone else does it its dangerous or hahahahaha an assignation attempt! I've never heard anything so ludicrous in all my life!
It would be a tough job to be a steward, for sure. But "not wanting to decide the race based on a penalty" is impossible, because a lack of a decision is still deciding the race.
That's why you can't base penalties off of outcomes, just what fits the situation.
Alonso did literally the very same move against Giovinazzi in America this year.
He rightly had to give the place up....
This weekend the FIA were very unfair on Hamilton, just want to see a fair sport
Unbelievable that in our technology rich world the stewards "didn’t have" the onboard footage! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
They were busy drinking redbull
The onboard footage shows Max turning hard to the left.
@@rt-uh6mt only after he was heading straight off the track!
Watch it again closely, a small amount of lock at the apex, which he missed by a mile. And then full lock when he was almost off the track, but still too much speed to remain on the racing surface.
My mum had the on-board before these clowns
they had to download the footage from the car apparently.
I love how max has brought such a high standard of wheel to wheel racing to formula 1, like missing a corner completely and running a car clean off the track, into the distance, to maintain a position.
Spot on.
I love how lewis has brought such a high standard of wheel to wheel racing to formula 1, like missing a corner completely and punting a car straight into a wall at 50g to then get a slap on the wrist and still win the race.
This is such a ludicrous sweeping statement, either uninformed or prejudiced but never justified
high standart? that is the opposite of high standart. high standart would be keeping your opponent behind without the need of pushing him or yourself out of the track.
@@Mike23443 that was a 50/50 racing incident so the stewards correctly penalised Hamilton by identifying that he was only predominantly & not fully at fault. Stop living in the past; this incident in Brazil was 100% a 5 second penalty for Verstappen as EVERYONE knows including the biased stewards.
So NOW we have Max's onboard. Where was it before? Can you imagine the histrionic nonsense Christian Horner would be spouting had things been reversed?
The reverse happened in Silverstone, and horner was quite calm, actually. The only one who is getting mad are Hamilton fanboys
Yes YOU have it now. They have had it for a long time
Exactly. That’s the biggest problem of all. Horners the most disengeuous smuck to ever breathe
@@jbarber1016 yeah cos Toto is a real gentlemen right?! Get lost fanboy.
Everyone always forgets about Silverstone.
Listen I get the “Lewis won anyways and penalizing Max wouldn’t change the outcome”
But understand that if nothing is done, what’s to stop Max or any other drive from doing this again in the future? Max was clearly in the wrong and something has to be done or else it’s just plain inconsistency from the FIA. But then again it’s what they do so yeah lol
No, it’s still important despite the present outcome because with added penalty seconds which Max truly deserves, he will end up behind Bottas thus losing points in the championship. This really does need to be resolved in the proper manner. Lewis showed his worth in avoiding the accident, he may have the faster car but keeping out of trouble in this case was sheer brilliance on his behalf, that’s why he’s seven times world champion, worth every penny to Mercedes. Time after time he gets a result when others simply would not. For the record, I’m also a great supporter of Max, he is brilliant also but in this case he really should get at least a five or even a ten second penalty, sorry Max but that move was not acceptable.
Max can probably get a grid place penalty for next race if stewards decide thag he pushed hamilton wide intentionally
Is #33 on many penalty points??
Could give him a solid amount, compounding on the black and white flag shown (being unsportsmanlike) to then threaten a potential race ban in the remaining stages.
if it comes to the logic of "avoiding this to happen in the future" then the Silverstone points should be removed from Ham, since obviusly the penalty was not enough for causing such a coillision, collision that never ocurred in Brazil this weekend.
@@mvmallinson Your comment shows Merc fans have no shame.
It is the callousness of Max clearly deciding that taking both of them out of the race benefits him.
Totally agree with "Let them race!", but I thought racing is done ON the track. Yes, being a steward is a hard job, but this was one of those cases like in football were you see the offside from a mile away, no need for a replay.
Max knew what he was doing he took a chance that the stewards would do nothing and got it right. Max is a fantastic driver but sometimes he has to yield if the other driver has made the move and outwitted him. I get that he doesn’t like to lose and battles hard but he crosses the line more than most on wheel to wheel racing in scenarios like this.
What you just described is also called cheating. He weaved across track to prevent any attempt, pushed HAM off the track - it's not a competitive sport anymore if one driver is held to a different standard from all the others. It's no better than WWE then.
Max never has to yeild. It's always the other driver who has to yeild, apparently.
He is prepared to crash, because he is winning. I truly believe he was expecting Lewis to turn in on him take them both out. Lewis is too smart for that. I liked max as a driver before today but I think he will do anything to win and that's not etiquette. Its dangerous.
I can't think of another year where the championship leader has routinely engineered situations where overtaking is guaranteed to result in a crash to maintain the championship lead. It's a VERY dangerous precedent and FIA seems to just accept this new "wipeout" defending strategy.
If this becomes the norm, it'll end in tragedy.
I remember a multiple world champion Ferrari driver doing the same thing. I like the will and desire to win but not the tactics.
I think this is just a build-up of years and years of inconsistency by stewarts and that they have been way to soft give out penalties. You can say penalties destroy racing, but drivers adapt to rules, look at Leclerc vs Verstappen Austria 2019, they had a nice battle until max force Charles off track, and after that Charles started to do it also.
Its more of F1 fans are not used to seeing p1 vs p2 battles... if there is no crash and no one lose a place, there is no need to give a penalty. "Just let them race"
all the drivers will get the memo that it's now ok to take the inside line and run opponents off track, very little over taking will be the result if this precedence sticks.
@@ameserich It's hard to call dive bombing so late into corner that you run yourself and your opponent off the track racing
@@ameserich yeah lol everyoen be like : "Rules are rules" xD so funny. I wouldve turned off the stream if they had given penalty to verstappen. Just like in football, not every tackle worth the yellow card even when it looks bad to us, viewers.
Silverstone 2019 is where racing will go if stewards let it. Hard racing yes. But off the track also
This barely 7 minutes condensed version doesn't do justice to the whole analysis available in F1TV. He talked about everything including the steering traces as well as the other defensive moves made by Max. Seriously, it's a really awesome piece of work and will make you see the whole picture.
thx ill check it out
Sadly that's behind a paywall.
best 50€ i have ever spent for f1tv
Links
How much you get paid to say this
Lewis was pushed all the way to Argentina, that's insane.
🤣
Lol🤭🤭
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hahhahahahahahhahahahahaha.
Stewards may have "tough" decisions... but this isn't one. The FIA makes a laughingstock of themselves if they ignore this blatant act on Max's part.
Mercedes is now pushing for a penalty after Lewis won anyway simply because that if Max gets even 5 seconds he loses the second place and Mercedes end up with a 1-2 finish.
Stewards prefer redbull over Monster drink 😊😊.
I agree. After so many years of Lewis and Mercedes I would be happy to see someone else win this time. I was actually rooting a little bit for Max. But this is ridiculous. "Let them race" is all nice and fine, but then just throw all rules over board, because calling this a "tough" decision, is ridiculous. How much clearer does it need to get for seeing that Max had no chance to make this corner and ran a fellow competitor off the track? In my opinion, the stewards are making a fool out of themselves with decisions like this. There are sometimes decisions where you could say there is a grey zone, but here it was pretty clear. Yes, we don't want title decisions through penalties, but we also don't want title decisions through running others off the track.
Cope, stay mad
Having read your reaction, may I ask for your professional opinion about the Silverstone incident?
The dislikes for this analysis are all from Christian Horner!
How can you see the dislikes? I can't see these anymore. TH-cam keep it hidden now.
Ive seen Max fans agree that his move should of been a penalty. Seeing his on board confirmed he didnt even try to turn. Again its Lewis avoiding Max
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race.
Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
no real advantage gained and lewis barely lost any time either due to the huge run off area, they are battlining for the WDC remember, there have been many cases of drivers in the same situation doing much worse. A penalty here makes no sense because it wouldn't have affected either of their results.
too me if max put anymore steering angle in hed have spun out. Ham shouldve put on the brakes and turned behind him and on the inside.
@@emmacooper3177 what does that have to do with anything? Your line of reasoning is similar to this dude murdered someone, but they guy he murdered had killed someone else in the past so we should let him go. Thats not how anything works. Each offense has its own penalty. Your argument is a fallacious argument.
@@dpexx9091 Penalty would affect whether Max has 2nd or 3rd place in the race.
You can fit all of the cars that have been penalized for running other cars off track in between Max and the track lol
I really do hope Ferrari give Leclerc a competitive car next year, at least on par with the redbulls. Then we will see Mad Max get a taste of his own medicine when Charles puts the frighteners on him like he did in Silverstone 2019.
hopefully Ferrari will be faster than Mercedes too
Who knows what Ferrari will pump out for next year, Mercs could be the slowest and williams the fastest.. the new regs are gonna give us a complete reset for the most part..
Ferrari & McLaren, I'd be happy to see any of those 4 win a title, none of them seem to be narcissistic
More crashes from max if this happens. Can't race wheel to wheel without crashing this boy
The analysis we all needed but did not deserve :D
why do people use generic sayings where they don't apply.
we deserve this!
@@ConnorRoss It's a joke. Reeeelax
@@CrashForce Aren’t jokes supposed to be funny?
@@Howling-Mad-Murdock Plenty of people seem to find it funny 🤷♂️
@@CrashForce But you weren’t trying to be funny, you were attention seeking.
Max was hoping for a collision , or both both being taken out which would have benefitted him the most, Lewis was much quicker and was going to pass Max at some point anyway and Max knew that, so he had nothing to lose by pulling that move.
And here we have the dumbest take of the year
@@175cm52kg and here we have the smartest Verstappen fan
Filthy move tbh, gained an advantage off track
@@175cm52kg very clear it’s his intention, same as Monza he knew lewis was quicker so he took him out there too
max was hoping for another monza
Imagine a referee in football/soccer that doesn't blow a penalty kick in the world cup final when the defender aggressively slides in the legs of the attacker. After the game, he says "well I didn't want to influence the game" 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Huge props to the 7x WDC for avoiding the accident. Verstappen tried to Schumacher his way into the championship. 3 more races to go, this will be fun!
@@mikko3 If Max had used the presence of mind to avoid the crash, like Lewis did in Brazil, the crash wouldn't have happened either. Only reason Brazil wasn't a repeat of Silverstone was because Lewis was aware enough to give room when necessary. Max could have ran wide at Silverstone and then got the place back via the stewards rather than try and hang on and squeeze around the outside. Also, at Silverstone, Lewis actually turned into the corner and kept himself on the track. Here, at Brazil, Max didn't even attempt to make the corner, he just piled in straight on, with no intention to stay on the track.
@@mikko3 if only max knows how to avoid Lewis like Lewis avoid max ...
@@tomjackson1923 Spot on!
The question is who benefits most if they both collided and both don't get any points from Brazil. That's why Max couldn't care less and Lewis back off in that incident. Need I say more?
He could be going in any of the next three races with mentality of just crashing himself and hamilton out and that most likely will happen and when it happens Verstappen should be penalised, even if it means taking the championship of of him. That's just how it is. Verstappen is just ridiculous, I'm sorry but at this point Hamilton doesn't even have a chance to fight him fairly.
Well collision will help max as there will be 1 less race to defend his lead from Hamilton
@@zanperko3932 Hamilton is ridiculous. He DNF Max in silverstone and got a joke of a penalty and won 25 points whereas Max 0 and a destroyed car. Hamilton deserves bad karma for the next 3 races, that would be fair
@@jovidec6274 Hamilton gets away with far too much, he deserves bad karma, and Max deserves the championship! 👍
I agree Jolyon, this is about as obvious a penalty as one could illustrate and yet the stewards and Michael Masi in particular are demonstrating just how inept and inconsistent they are.
How much longer are we going to have to put up with Michael Masi's lack of leadership and poor decision making?
What does it take for the incumbent to be fired/resign from any leadership position in any corporation?
Your 20/20 hindsight analysis is again very illustrative and informative.
If only we all had such insights during the fact (especially Mr Masi).
maybe need a panel of current/former drivers say 5, and have a majority decision, then a suit like Masi can sign it off officially
Bro, Masi is Liberty little bit*h, no doubt, but he's not the one handing penalties or not, let's be fair...
Let them Race Bro
@@satiroseelfos he is not the one having the decision but he has the final say on penalties or whether to investigate things
@@satiroseelfos Could be. I'm no Hamilton fan, bu what if Liberty want Max to win the Championship. It's in their interest. Would create more drama and avoid a repeat winner.
Let's face it, Max was disappointed with that move! Jolyon didn't say it but I would suggest that it appears Max would have been happy to take out Lewis and maintain his points lead. Great reactions from Lewis and a deserved win, shame the stewards didn't have a bit more bottle.
Two engines lost for red bull due to contact caused by Merc is way bigger penalty than 1 meaningless 10 second penalty. Had FIA let Red bull two free engine swaps and merc pay for the two complete chassis Fine penalize max. Letting this go is fine losing two engines purely due to contact initiated by Merc is a penalty in itself. Letting this ride not changing results makes things more fair overall.
Had Max bumped Hamilton's rear left he may have been able to stay on the track sending Lewis into the wall would a ten second penalty been enough here had that been the case. One terrible call at Silverstone set up this whole smashem up attitude, FIA failed to make the point there we see the repercussions of it now.
@@Madmoody21 again, penalties are assigned not by the consequences but by the infraction itself like missing the apex or running another driver off track. it doesnt account for crashes...
@@no1washerezz than crymilton should have been DSQ for crashing on purpose
Short memory. Twice the Mercedes have punted Max off the track this season.
@@ElementsMMA Not quite. IIRC Max punted himself off twice, with his red bull in a china shop thing. Impetuous youth, I thought he was maturing.
First and foremost, the FIA are not above the scrutiny of F1 fans. Max's defense of Lewis was a gross violation of FIA regulations.. and with the FIA's refusal to enforce the established rules of competition, they set a dangerous precedent for how this championship proceeds. And, the FIA not having access to Max's onboard footage is a fabricated story, ..they willfully chose to allow their bias for Max to prevail, collectively looking to usher in a new era of F1.
@BobbyofEarth What bothers me about this, is that the FIA is supposed to be an independent body from F1. They are basically the judge and jury in racing, what the standing/championship are should never come into play with their assessments and/or actions.
I think max was probably trying to crash into Lewis. There's no way he can keep him behind. Better crash both cars and keep the points lead, something taken right out of Schumacher's playbook. Hamilton's reaction saved him.
@silverado punked I told me friend before it happened, that Max wouldn't let him pass without trying to do something dangerous or crashing. Max is Old School, "thou shall not pass".
Not the first time he has done it, won't be the last. It's a shame as he could be classy but chooses not to be.
Hahaha if that was the plan, he would have rammed Hamilton in the corner. Go and take your tinfoil hat somewhere else
@@jeroenbaas46 Ramming would disqualify max from the championship. You have to make it look like an accident.
Blatantly obvious. Max knew that he could be aggressive because he'd either maintain the lead or they'd crash which would favour him in the standings.
Yes
Yesss, I agree
Just like Hamilton in Silverstone? But instead of gaining nothing he gained 25 points
@@floydrespecter2483 there was a penalty though!
@@floydrespecter2483 different situation and also got penalty. Therefore, not fair for Lewis
This was clearly the most extreme case of a driver crowding another off the track the whole season, yet Max gets away with it. He didnt even try to make the apex. Let's hope Mercs appeal is upheld!!
Max backed off after tho so it wouldn't be fair to give him a 5 second penalty. If he knew he'd be penalised he would've gone harder to stay in front with the penalty
@@tastycookiechip This Max backing off thing is getting stale now. That's his and RB's problem, no one asked him to back off. Just goes to show you how confident Max and RB were of not getting penalized. If they knew a penalty was coming then they would have asked Max to keep within 5seconds of Lewis...
by not applying a penalty you're effecting the entire grid negatively not just the championship. Max shouldn't get special treatment over other drivers who have gotten a penalty for less
By that logic Hamilton should also get a penalty for pushing Perez into the pitlane in Turkey 😌
And Hamilton should have gotten a bigger penalty in Silverstone. At that time Max was on the outside and got slammed in the wall. Lewis did not try to make the corner and left a lot of space on the inside.
Cope and seethe
@@sterq Lewis did try to make the corner at Silverstone. He made a mistake. Max here did not.
@@siddharthsuresh9285 no perez should have given the place back as he overtook lewis off the track, he done the same thing as max in bahrain. Defending your line on corner exit when your ahead is alot different to forcing some1 off the road on corner entry.
Analysis completely spot on, it’s such an obvious penalty. Lewis did win in the end but this is setting a dangerous precedent for both drivers. Just because they are in a title fight does that mean they can do whatever they want without being penalised??
Ok but if Hamilton Crash him its only 10 sec pan. and no ohne Talks about it later and Hamilton dont got. Crashed but it was Risk. but no were near like silverstone tbh and Hamilton pays FIA 100% its so dumb what Penalty he gets and other drivers get for less
@@scyrusgts3005 its not same
@@scyrusgts3005 Nobody talks about it ?
Everytime there is an incident between them, you all repeat the same "Silverstone" thing.
Max is lucky that LH is experienced enough to back out of situations like this to avoid the crash, If it is the other way around Max would have simply hit Lewis and Christian Horner would be crying to the stewards.
Like in Silverstone this year?
@@filipebarbosa11 exactly like Silverstone, Max showed he wasn't experienced enough to back out there as well.
Remember Silverstone? Just like that.
Exactly!
Y'know I hadn't realised exactly how similar this is to Silverstone. Hamilton got the penalty there but just crickets from the stewards now its verstappen.
If you judge that Hamilton “had” the corner by the way he placed himself ahead of Verstappen and on the ideal racing line. Then the only reasonable judgment on this is that Verstappen gained the position back only by going off track. Thus, the position should be “given back” to Hamilton.
Now… I don’t know this is a possible judgment in the rule books as the 5 second penalty would probably “override” this either way.
All 3 incidents with max, silverstone, monza, & now Brazil were all Max’s fault. Kid needs to be banned.
@Daltira butthurt hamilton fan coz he is not winning 😂
@@AceDeclan silverstone both of them were wrong, monza - max, brazil - max.
@@AceDeclan lol get a brain
Max clearly stopped trying to turn and make the corner so he could push Lewis off track and stay first. How the FIA couldn't see that is really beyond me. And it's not a "difficult decision because it affects the title" because it's clear as day a penalty and on purpose. By trying not to affect the outcome of the title, you are affecting the outcome of the title.
The thing is, Jolyon here says "you don't want to see it decided by a stewarding decision", and I absolutely agree. But this CANNOT be taken as a perfectly fine defensive move, or we are going to see huge crashes become commonplace, as this would have been had Lewis not had the spacial awareness to see Max coming and bail out. It's a desperate move and it's dangerous, and a penalty needs to be levied against Max to show that this is not how you defend a position. Jeddah and Abu Dhabi have walls; lots of them. If we're allowed drivers to be forced off the track by desperate defensive moves, we will see multiple cars buried in them. if it's 50/50 if it's a penalty or not, let them race, let it go, but this is more obviously a penalty than any given this year. There is literally nothing else Lewis could have done except sit behind Max and let him win. He's been avoiding incidents by backing out all year, and it's getting tiresome. Lewis overtook 40 cars this weekend, and not one was forced off the road. Including this, Max overtook 2 - and both were. It's only the typical lap 1 leniency that stopped Max getting cited for forcing Valtteri off and T2 and gifting 2nd place to Checo. I'm all for a fight, but it needs to be fair and it needs to be to the rules. And this was neither.
It's too late to give a penalty at this point
Zik, you have got this spot on.
@@malcp1237 No he's not. Max backed off for the rest of the race, if they told him penalty during the race then he would've raced hard to get a 5 second gap. It wouldn't be fair to hit him with the penalty now as he probably could've overtaken Hamilton again at the last minute if he knew he needed to gain 5 seconds of pace
@@tastycookiechip no dude, no ways was Max ever gonna overtake Lewis. That Merc was jacked this weekend...
@@tastycookiechip He backed off? He could have overtaken Hamilton again? Only in your imagination!! Remember ,Hamilton caught up to him from way back on the grid to get to this situation. If Verstappen was faster he would never have allowed Hamilton to catch up in the first place. And why would he back off once he was overtaken? Was he feeling generous and decided to give Hamilton the race?........after forcing him off the track?
It was deliberate max had no way of stopping the inevitable overtake from the pace of the Merc with 25+ laps to go. Defending an overtake would not put you that far off track a bit of snap oversteer would not put you that far off track there was no attempt to make the corner at all.
Poor Albon being spun out by Lewis twice. :/ 🤔
@@roberttavares9316 Lewis was penalizes. How about max?
@@roberttavares9316 not sure what that has to do with Max forcing Lewis of the race track.
@@cvessex if there was contact max would be penalised
@@mabra33 the only reason there's no contact because ham evade, in silverstone max squeeze not evading(but this still count as more to lewis at fault and he got the penalty)
It’s clearly for me now, that after all the incidents that happened this year, that the FIA, the stewards, and Liberty Media wants for Max to be the champion. If this will be the case, Max will not be a true champion, he will just be someone that is satisfied with injustice and illegal moves. And he will be remembered in history for this, and I never would want to be in that position, ever.
Finally someone talking about track limits. Max didn't max the corner and as a result kept the lewd. It's an absolutely no brainer that's a penalty or reverse positions.
I believe they did it for sake of the show but at the same time they knew they would have to penalize Max in order to not make it a precedent so they reacted very quickly by not releasing the onboard footage to give a formal excuse for the stewards to not conduct any investigation just to release it later and review the case to penalize Max in the name of the rules.
But you're British so your opinion is not relevant at all.
Lewis protected his vulnerable left hand rear wheel from a punterino by braking quicker than Max.
Max figured at Monza as long as he takes Hamilton out with him he can still win
@@derrickbush1146 same should be said for silverstone, which was an assassination attempt
@@Roeland666 monza wasn't an assassination attempt???
Clearly it was more dangerous than Silverstone
saved himself from a shadow realm entry
@@derrickbush1146 well I think that you may call Monza and Brasil "ghost from Silverstone" ;) I really think that those situations are consequences of Silverstone crash, no matter what Lewis or Max say about this.
The answer is simple, in order to retain first position, Verstappen had to brake late which ended up with him going off the track and forcing Hamilton off in the process. Obvious penalty. Stewards got it wrong.
How is it a penalty? Its hard racing
@@floydrespecter2483 because rules
@@floydrespecter2483 tf?? Did you watch this video??
@@floydrespecter2483 because if he didn’t force Lewis off, he would have lost the position. Which means he gained a lasting advantage by bullying someone off track. Which is not allowed.
@@floydrespecter2483 Hard racing isn't pushing your opponent miles off the track to keep a position
Happy to watch facts, thank you. This is Verstappen, he believes track is all his and that he does not have to pull back, several times this season… Hamilton knows him already as well as he knows that needs to finish and win ‘till the end to renew his title.
exactly, I've been saying this all season long, Max has been doing this bully move for way too long. And the two times Lewis didn't budge at least one of them didn't get to the finish line...
People say “Max doesn’t learn” and “Mad is dumb”. But he DOES learn and he’s NOT dumb. When the FIA say “no investigation required”, Max learns very well that there are rules for the midfield, and other rules for the Heir Apparent savior of F1.
Don’t blame Max when his belligerence is tacitly accommodated. He simply adapta to how these incidents are called.
But racing off track is a VERY dangerous precedent.
Even if I don’t agree with a rule it should be applied concisely for the whole season. Otherwise you encourage max to cheat by weaving and forcing other drivers off the track. And I am a neutral observer
And what about when Lewis wrecked max and recieved nothing
@@matta4756 he got a penalty for that you casual
@@matta4756 You mean the +10s Lewis received which the Red Bulls team protested it wasn't enough of a penalty?
@@matta4756 i actually thought that was a racing incident at the time and not really comparable in this instance as they were both on the track and only wide of the apex
Many are ignoring the blatantly unprofessional weaving
Finally. And the only correct conclusion. I get why Max had to go for it, but if you're going to throw one up the inside from a car length back you need to make the corner yourself at bare minimum - and whether he was putting on enough lock to make the apex or not, he got nowhere close to doing that. Poor driving.
Whether or not Max gets a retrospective reprimand (a slap on the wrist is better than nothing, given Lewis won anyway and this kind of move shouldn't be encouraged), the stewards need to make sure they have instant access to all onboard cameras for the remaining races - because these guys are going to tangle again and next time it could decide the championship.
...so wait...you're telling me that the car running up the inside has a responsibility to make the corner without contact?
@@joeprice8163 NONONONO not like that 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wow so now we can sleep well knowing this is the right conclusion
I do agree with you, however I think any kind of post-race penatly (except a fine) would have way too big of an impact, much bigger than a 5s penalty would have had in this case. I don't know if it is the right decision at this point, however I also agree this behaviour should be discouraged.
Also I think we can all agree that the penalty system and the stewarding system need to be rethought. We need objectivity, so we need the same stewards every time. We also need (imo) to penalise not only based on the action but based on the consequence as well, as it is in real life courts. This should further discourage attempts at bending the rules.
Well put.
Fair assessment! MV made no effort to make that corner, he made the decision to run wide well before that corner. I really hope thet put him in his place, sooner rather than later
Max you can run but you can't hide. Joylon palmer find you 😂😂😂
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race.
Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
@@emmacooper3177 if they don't penalize Max he might do it again and could potentially result to crash.
Given the fact that he still leads the championship battle, there's a possibility that he do it again and still win the championship title.
@@emmacooper3177 Notice all the example you stated, Hamilton actually made the corner. Max Lewis three 3 car widths of the track. There's no sense in what your saying. By the way USA Hamilton pushed Max wide because Max aggressively tried to pin him in the pit exit lane.
If you are not fast enough and leading in points, just try and take your opponent out. Lewis was very smart to avoid the collision. Kudos
Verstappen was just learning from the Lewis Hamilton School (Silverstone edition).
Mate, that literally reminds me of Silverstone. Hamilton needed to get Max on Lap 1 or he'd never catch him, and he ended up taking Max out. And now Max does this. Both of them have done it to each other
Max would rather take out Lewis for all the remaining races, rather than race
@@bonganincube2946 very ironic since the only reason hamilton is even close to verstappen is because he took him out in Silverstone
It’s a really really tough job to be a steward… but not that day. That was pretty easy to decide that Max had to be penalized
Sorry, but the two incidents aren't remotely alike, other than the involved drivers being the same and being a general "dispute over the racing line" - which basically all incidents are
@@knutpohl339 Well I’m not comparing the two incidents. I understand what you mean but having watched the last incident at least I saw Verstapen push Hamilton outside when the latter had already passed him easily with the DRS as shown in the video. Yes in general terms it is a racing incident as most of them are but (to me) and the guy showing the video at least is pretty obvious that this is a violation. Not sure where the limits of the racing laws fade exactly though
@@pantnick my sincere apologies! I have no clue how my comment ended up here but it was intended for a comment above or below yours.
So sorry. Especially, as I agree with you.
@@knutpohl339 haha. Absolutely no problem my friend. Agreeing or not 😁
Thought experiment: Imagine Max was attempting to overtake Lewis here, and had drafted Lewis down the straight and then pulled out to the inside as they approached the corner. They would be in exactly the same situation on corner entry in this hypothetical as they were in the real incident. And then, imagine that Max does the same move from that moment that he actually did - i.e., sends it up the inside without any hope of making the corner, completely blows the exit by 20 meters or more, forces Lewis off, and takes the lead.
This would be an immediate penalty, no question.
My view is that this hypothetical scenario and the actual incident are identical as far as the rules are concerned, and should have been treated equally.
They are not as you explain in one scenario you're defending a position and in another you're gaining a position. And look at the Styria 2020 overtake from Stroll on Ricciardo, it's the exact scenario you describe and no penalty was given.
@@nielsvanheteren Maybe you did not notice this, but Lewis was ahead of Max as they began braking. In case you are not aware, in Formula 1 racing, when Car A is behind Car B and then passes Car B, Car A has gained a position.
@@Jct421 LOL. It's a great point and interesting to consider how differently we judge various incidents based on what was going on in the race 1 or 2 corners before, or laps before, or a season before. When really all that matters is what happens between the 100m board and the corner exit.
@@Jct421 so when a car is 1mm he has by your own definiton passed a car? Seems a little bit of an anti racing definiton of overtaking. But whatever suits your narrative right.
@@nielsvanheteren Tell me, which car is leading at that point?
"We don't want to see championships decided by penalty" - agree Jolyon but please don't let that be a defence when Max does this again and gets away with it. Fans deserve better.
If we wanted comedy rules, pre-ordained champions and one sided refereeing most of us would watch WWE instead.
Yet they gave Hamilton so many penalties in Brasil and other places. What about those deciding the championship?
Yeah its just annoying watching max lead the championship because the fia looks the other way when he does these thing while other drivers are getting penalties for the same thing or less incidents. He has the best car this year he doesn't need anymore help than he is getting now. It's clear he hasn't matured that much and still can't race wheel to wheel
@@Albtraum_TDDC Um those r indisputable
@@Keyy7787 he was quite literally the slowest car on the speed trap in Brazil
Well said..!!
It now just opens it up to later races, if Hamilton does it to Max, then the steward's CAN'T penalise him... They have backed themselves into a corner now
but they would. they had no issue disqualifying lewis but cant even investigate a clear as day 5 second penalty for max
I can’t imagine the stewards would have any problem breaking their own rules, they do it often enough.
Bro… Hamilton got Max in the hospital and got niced with his penalty. Hamilton is probably the only driver on the grid that gets niced whatever he does.
@@maxvu2027 can tell you have no real idea to whats going on in the world muppet.
@@maxvu2027 you really think Max was struggling for life in the ICU or something
The Stewards doesnt have a hard job. They just need to do their job properly regardless of how the outcome
Max just paid them 50K dinner and having sleep over, now their job become "difficult" !
Max: Perfect, say "Hi" !
You're Chinese so you know how that feel.
When you compare how he approached the corner on previous laps, Verstappen basically moved the apex by about 15-20 meters toward the outside and down the track. It's all about letting them race XD
Lets face it Max saw the performance of that Mercedes after the upgrade and instantly thought i'll do anything to keep ahead on points even if i have to take us both out of the race. That is the only logical explanation to being that far off the track without losing traction.
If he wanted to take Hamilton out he would have turned in to the limit and probably skidded to the side into Hamilton. He chose not to take it to the limit with Hamilton next to him. At no point he has to correct a slide and he does not slide twoards Hamilton. He therefore chooses not to approach the grip limit with Hamilton next to him. He tried a move and it was to much, but he then kept a safe line through the run-off so that there would be no slide twoards Hamilton.
@@Ewoudvdv what safe line? You are delusional my friend. The only reason they did not crash is because Hamilton avoided it. End of story. Stop with your sliding and grip limit nonsense.
Ala Schumacher Hill
@@sanelebuthelezi589 " You are delusional my friend. " Aaah yes, the old fashioned constructive attempt at making a point.
That's typical of Max. I wouldn't be surprised.
Anybody with functioning eyes knows that this should've been a penalty even with their blinders on. Not sure how anyone can be dumb enough to convince themselves that it was just a racing incident and Verstappen did nothing wrong there.
Let them race
@@mikeymasi so no penalties for anyone, just do whatever you like i guess
@@oliverheyes5747 it would have destroyed the battle so the made the right choice and lewis still won so
@@mikeymasi that was not racing.
@@eeesh5600 Yes, it was. And that's exactly why DRS destroyed F1. You simply can't defend your position when the car behind you is 45 kilometers faster than you on the straights. It takes no skill at all to overtake nowadays.
Max's movement is typical of him. If the other car is even deeper in the bend max use that car to stay on the track itself, as is the 2018 Spa against Raikkonen. Classic Rallycross overtake movement. Would someone else go unpunished because of "let them race"? If it had been the other way around?
You mean 2019?
You mean Silverstone?
@@jackcatman8932 yeah it was -19
@@talessoares9194 no it was Spa -19
This seems so blatant that it could taint the final outcome of the season, if Max squeezes out the championship by a few points. If he gets away with this credibility is lost in a very big way.
Taint it more than Bottas taking Max completely out of an earlier race?
@@Filthyanimal9 Bottas failed to measure the brake force necessary due to the heavy rain conditions. However, at least he didn't seem to make an effort on putting his competitor off track and ruining their race. If I recall correctly, in Barcelona, Verstappen also attempted a ride or die situation similar to this. Either he gets ahead or both are out
Lewis got only 10 seconds for almost killing Max
@@ega8938 and still won the race. Because Mercedes OP
@@Filthyanimal9 - Bottas didn’t take Max out. He hit Norris who hit Verstappen. Bottas took Perez out.
time to investigate all the stewards' bank accounts.
I would like to see that too
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race.
Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
Seb to lead the investigation.
@@emmacooper3177 🤡
How in the world is that ok‽ Also, there's a strong similarity between this incidence and the Silverstone incidence, the only difference being, Hamilton didn't turn in pretending Verstappen isn't there ...
wow go ahead and make it seem like SIlverstone was maxes fault. in both cases the drivers inside the corner were at fault. max should ahve been penalized during the race here. end of story
@@allorfh2495 He's not saying it's Max's fault, he's just saying that Max is always aggressive regardless of his positioning anf never avoids a collision, while also saying that it was essentially the same move by the guy on the inside meaning by that logic Max should get a 10s penalty
And what a world of difference that makes! How many times have Max yielded this season? NONE! Hamilton has had to yield or they crash. The times that none of them have yielded, they've crashed. How much longer are they going to tolerate Max's "my corner or we crash" mentality?
@@antonyhobet
Thanks for doing that so I don't have to. Could you try and say it loud enough for the back-benchers in the future though ... much appreciated.
@@emilegc
He keeps doing it because he never gets any deterrent not to. Also the mentality of 'oh we don't want to spoil the spectacle by awarding penalties' is such a weak one. Are we to prioritize spectacle over the safety of drivers? And why have rules at all then? If spectable and not intelligence on the track is the goal, why not just have a free for all demolition derby on the track and the last man standing wins?
Lewis' biggest challenge for the remainder of the races could be avoiding a crash with Max, which he did so brilliantly here, and again making sure of that when he finally did overtake Max. 😎 Makes me wonder what the stewards' reaction would've been if he had taken out Lewis on this occasion.
+5s like what Lewis got in Silverstone?
Three place grid penalty. Wouldn't hurt him if he's won the championship already. And no one is even talking about weaving on the straight while another car was within DRS. Max must be feeling like the rules do not apply to him
@@salgamate13 he got 10s nice try
Now use computer graphics to overlay Max’s previous laps so we can all see exactly his braking point.
we don't need to. It is clear as cristal that he wanted to do it like this. there is no accident or mistake involved.
do the same for silverstone you bias british pundets
in other laps there is no Lewis or other driving pushing hard, the drivers are people, your comment doesnt make sense at all..
@@dutchracer70 Lewis got a ten second penalty for silverstone. What’s your point?
@@Maxsafehands who won ?so be quiet
I just hope Max will finally get a well-deserved punishment.
They really HAVE TO look at each situation in the context of the championship, the way Max drove there it was obvious he didnt mind Lewis crashing into his side.
same should be said for silverstone, which was an assassination attempt
Hamilton could've crashed into Perez too in Baku if perez didn't switched side before Hamilton went off... doesn't mean he did it deliberately..
Championship battle shouldnt have affect their decision because if Max was given a 5 second penalty Bottas would have been 2nd so its also not fair on Bottas as well
That’s my exact point no one realises bottas was only 3 seconds behind so max would have lost more points and there be shorter difference on points. Hamilton barely gets decisions his way 😒😒
@@abdulsamadarjumand9139 In Silverstone he hit the rear wheel of his oponnent and eliminated him and he got a 10 second penalty. How fair is that?
... That doesn't make sense. If max knew about the penalty he wouldn't have left bottas get closer than 5 seconds.
What a great analysis. Just because F1 wants Crashstappen to win, they need to be more subtle about it! This will have the opposite effect of what F1 desires ... they will lose fans if they continue using this psychopath as their ramming rod.
Orange army argument from Silverstone: “He should be penalized because he missed the Apex”
Now : LET THEM RACE
xD
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Ham took ver out at over 50 G’s and only got 10 second penalty. I agree ver should have a penalty for this incident however if ver got a penalty Hamilton’s incident at silverstone should have been a lot lot worse looking at the difference in how serious they were.
@@ILostYourSoul it was vers corner in silverstone, he is on the racing line. Ham should have braked earlier (car on inside needs to brake earlier to make the corner since the angle is tighter) so he could make the apex which he was never making since he didn’t brake hard or early enough
The silverstone incident for me shouldnt have been a penalty. Ham didnt try to force vestappen off the track but push him wide yes. Vestappen for me just didnt yield and they ended up colliding. Racing incident with more Hamilton to blame. But Brazil incident is Vestappen deliberatly out braking himself, effectivly straight lining the corner just so hamilton cant pass on the outside. It the same as blocking a driver on a straight preventing them from overtaking.
@@CS-yr5hs its the action that counts not the consequences
great analysis. most people thought the same. there's wheel to wheel racing, and there's trying to avoid crashing into max.
imagine max and yuki on the same team.
torpedo 2.0
@@leonardrosser6353 That was unfair of Seb labeling Kvyat the Torpedo. Their first 'incident' happened because Seb left the door open and Daniil made a legitimate pass down the inside of the corner. They didn't even touch. Seb collided with teammate Kimi though...(can't throw him under the bus... not that it was his fault either). Seb gave him the name in the winner's waiting area.
At the next race they do collide (twice which ends Seb's race) but it wasn't on purpose.
The ultimate result was Max ascending to the A team.
That's a 5 second penalty. It has now been clearly visible and explained.
I don’t think it is fair if they penalize him now. Max was told during the race “no further investigation” and that is why he just focused on managing his tires, otherwise he would have easily pulled a 5 second gap to Bottas. If they penalize him now they are basically just giving free points to Lewis, points he wouldn’t have had if they had just given him a penalty during the race.
Also you conveniently forget about all the times Lewis risked a collision or pushed people off and got away with it, just this season; Bahrain, USA, Turkey
Should Have been given in the race…now its not fair to Max
@@emmacooper3177 guess what also isn’t fair forcing another driver off the track and leaving the track gaining a lasting advantage. Also Red Bull should have been aware that something like this could have happened.
@@emmacooper3177 totally agree with you.
@@hansfromcongo6322 it isn't fair that Hamilton and Buttass ruined Max's (in silverstone) and Checo's (Hungary) races while they got a joke of a penalty. The balance was not fair, both Redbull drivers lost a LOT of points and ended with badly damaged cars while the lucky Mercedes drivers went away fine. THIS was not fair. They deserve bad karma in the result of the next races 🤞🤞
Max habitually forces other drivers off the track, its part and parcel of his driving style, so much so the stewards let him get away with it and forget he's breaking the rules. The fact he ain't black helps him too!!!
@@oldb3139 Was Max's fault too!!!