Yes especially when a lot of ex drivers have proven to have zero analytical skills. Anybody remember how awful Karthikeyan was as an analyst. Oof. Lawrence Baretto is also an Indian journalist and he has great takes. Just goes to show
also, ocon completed 57 laps..hamilton being on the lead lap would've had to do 58 laps..ocon wouldn't have been pushing too much..while hamilton had pushed so much in the initial stages..so i think mercedes were right to call him in when they did..
Different cars treat their tyres differently and the skills of Hamilton aren't exactly equal to that of Ocon. It's not just as simple as 'based on the result on one car, this is what would have happened to another car.' Hamilton's car had a bigger rear wing for instance, compared to even his own teammate, which results in higher downforce and less sliding around at the corners, which should in turn help with tyre wear.
@@peterporkeresq.2817 no, higher downforce means more wear. It's about the lateral force on the tire, higher force means more wear. F1 cars are not supposed to be sliding around the corners, it's not tokyo drift. They only slide when the driver lost control over the car.
@@rashius No, not exactly. The better traction you have, the more your tyres stick to the road and the less lateral movement they undergo while cornering. The fact that a car isn't under or oversteering doesn't mean the tyres do not at all move sideways while cornering, even on road cars, tyres aren't perfectly planted on the road and the more you move laterally, the more rubber you leave on the track. That is why you have lockups and flat spots when you have over or understeer due to poor traction, and ruin your tyres, and you don't have over or understeer when you have adequate traction.
I feel like Hamilton should've pitted as soon as Verstappen pitted, so even before Perez. Not only were they sure of the tire choice (can't do anything wrong with the same tire-choice as your rival) but also they had a chance to undercut Perez. Hamilton was right behind him by then. I was actually surprised when they stayed out and tried to overtake Perez. Things could've already ended badly there.
@@ahmedadelsorour6407 correct, but hey still had to pit. The first 4 laps on new tires were apparently not so great anyway, so by then both Norris and Gasly would have pitted. Difficult decision I'm sure, but I would have focused the strategy more on Verstappen.
Really enjoy seeing this detailed data. The graph was kinda hard to read because the lines were so thin. Also it might've been nice to have Ocon's gap on there. Thanks anyway
This for me is driver error. He either pits when originally asked and with his greater pace is very likely to get 3rd. Or he stays out. Once he decided a halfway house strategy, it was all over.
I think it was team as error as well. After seeing that he will have to change I would put soft tyres on instead of inter less than 15 laps remaining worth the gamble
@@bl41ck97 Would have been worth the gamble for Ferrari not Hamilton who's fighting for the championship. Too much risk, if they don't work he's out of the points.
@@bl41ck97 That'd be even worse. At that point, it was damage control. Minimizing points lost. Ham will have 6 more races to gain back the 6 points. If this race is the title decider, then yes I'd say that's a worthwhile gamble.
i think both parties are at fault simply because the team should have told hamilton that he needs to get through the graining period and it’s imperative if he puts it on earlier, just poor communication from both parties
@@CaptainKenway calibration aside, it's gotta be one of the most low contrast colour combos to choose if you want it to be easily visible for the most people. Like making it black with dark indigo arrows - still hard to see I think both the content creator and the end consumer have a level of responsibility when it comes to making the video accessibly visible.
Lewis was making a decision when he didn't have all the information he needed to make the right decision. The team was right, new inters was the way to go which was clear to anyone watching the race and pitting earlier rather than later was going to be faster overall because of the graining period. Doing the whole race on one set had a very slim chance of success with a very high chance of it backfiring spectacularly which was a risk not worth taking in such a tight championship. Lewis asked the team if the tires would last after he had decided to stay out so he clearly had doubts they would make it to the end.
Lewis asked for to pit earlier before Perez so he was happy to pit, but Merc left him out far too long and too close to the end so he thought they should risk it to the end.
What if he gets to p3 with destroyed tires and fights Perez or leclerc with new tires... that's where it gets very tricky and a dnf is very possible and the tires might have not lasted... Hamilton should have listen to his team when the first call was made period. Looking at his tires when they remove them u can clearly see they are no longer intermediate... they are done.
but according to Lewis if Ocon went the whole race on intermediates, then he certainly could do it ..personally I disagree with Lewis on this one but I'm just a fan of the overall sport. What do I know .
It’s a really great analysis (as always) but uncharacteristically it could have been presented much much more clearly with a series of slides that declutter the traces that aren’t directly being talked about in the moment. I had to stop several times to see the yellow arrows against a white background. Elementary power point skills would have resolved this
You should check out the full versions on f1tv. They're usually half-hour segments that go through the whole race from start to finish. That's the only other thing I watch other than the race/sessions themselves lol
well, they did. Lewis requested to be pitted much earlier to do the undercut and the team failed to do it. would have guaranteed 3rd if they did. they wait way to long before telling him to pit first time around, should have done it right after perez. whilst a risk of a tire failure, i think Lewis probably would have got 4th if he went to the end.
@@ddha0000 This is not correct. Merc could not do the undercut to Perez because if the pitted before him, they would release him into traffic (Gasly/Norris). Hamilton would have lost out massively if they had done that.
@@ddha0000 I think they were hoping that with Perez out of the way for a bit, Hamilton could push more for a couple of laps before pitting. That could then make him further up the road and able to defend through the end stages of the graining process. Unfortunately for that strategy, Hamilton disagreed and stayed out. They then spent a couple of laps deciding on their options before it was too late to pit and win out on strategy. At that point they could only try and hang on, but the tyres were unlikely to make it so they pitted for safety. It's not too dissimilar to what happened with Leclerc where they were just hoping the tyres would last - they didn't and he'd have lost more time/potentially crashed if he stayed out.
Again lewis is disgruntled about a decision that his crew made but I really feel that his staying out effectively put himself in the position he ended up finishing. Had he pitted when his crew asked him to there would have been more race left for him to effect a difference but he decided that he wouldn’t and now he has to live with the result.
I would also like to add that I wonder how much Max effects Lewis’s choices, to me I believe it is hampering his game but if he gets smart quickly and focuses on being the best he can be for the team and his self. Every freaking point makes a difference from here on out so leave nothing on the table racing is going to be the season we will all get to watch.
When I saw Perez pit after his battle with Hamilton, I thought that Mercedes had instructed Lewis to do the opposite of Perez so either pit before him or pit the next lap after him if Perez pits. I was very surprised to see Hamilton not pit and continue on .If he had pitted the lap after Perez he would have been able to continue the battle with Perez and with the Mercs better downforce he could have been more aggressive with his tires and in the corners and would have had a great chance of gettting by Perez and Leclerc because the Mercs were the fastest cars on the track.
He should've pitted when the team suggested. Trying to run the whole race when the same set of tires was the worst option with no better but potential disastrous result.
There were basically multiple strategies in play in the race by different teams and it was pretty interesting. Early race Pit: RIC, didn't work Pit for Slicks: VET, bad idea Mid race pit: VER, PER, in hindsight probably the most optimal Late race pit: HAM, not very optimal No-pit race: OCO, horrible pace towards the end and high risk of tire blow out I think such vague conditions is probably the best in terms of seeing how the teams and drivers react.
When Hamilton wins, he is a nice guy and he thanks the team. When he loses, he is the worst nightmare and just starts to complain nonstop in the radio. And says things like, “mistakes? For the team, yes. For me, no.” “I told you” What a guy
Which, strangely enough is what everyone is. As Vettel said, defending Lewis when he was back at Ferrari, you can't judge anyone by what they are saying in the middle of the race and just after, when adrenaline is flowing.
Too bad Hamilton didn't listen to his gut in Russia and Turkey. In Istanbul he could have gotten a tire failure and DNF. Max would now have a comfortable lead in the championship. The Mercedes team are much better than their star driver this season.
@@GPowtlaw2 I have no idea what happened in Hungary :))) Anyway, LH should listen to his team, they know better, or at least more than him :)) And they have been together for 8 years because they had the best car, otherwise he would have left ages ago.
Another imp point : LEWIS WAS RUNNING ON A HIGHER DOWNFORCE SETUP ...which was giving him a better speed in corners.....which somewhere would have also increased the chances of tyre blowout
and his team should have listened to him when Lewis asked to be pitted BEFORE perez for the undercut. for the 4th time this season, Merc's poor strategy costed them.
@@ddha0000 what undercut.? With the tyre graining phase the new tyres were actually slower / similar to olds. With intermediate tyres on a partly trying track a undercut would have never worked. Palmers graphic proved it.
The right call should have been pitting before Perez.HAM would have been a comfortable 3rd.The problem is that in Merc pit wall they sleep deeply during races...we have seen it many times this year.
@@TheTororist there's no guarantee he'd have finished 5th as he would have have to defend against Perez and leclerc which would cost him time and tyre Deg...
I personally would've loved to see what would happen if Hamilton did decide to stay out. Being overtaken by Perez in the end? That would've been interesting to watch
@@shankarsaraswat5149 P3 is optimistic. Ocon lost 30s to Alonso on the last 8 laps. With that kind of delta to Bottas, Lewis would have been passed by Gasly. Considering he had to do one more lap than Ocon, and that Ocon was losing 8 seconds on the final laps, likely overtaken even by Norris.
We can't just project linear lap times without taking to account interaction with the other drivers. Even if tyre performance itself didn't drop off as much for Lewis, the first time he was defending his position and went a bit off line, the slickermediates he was in would loose temperature, and with so little tread, they would not be able to gain it again. He might end up in the Vettel Scenario, looking at a crash or painfully slow lap (s) until he managed to make it to the pits
I want to say its the gap from the current lap delta, but that doesn't add up with how the line moves as the car goes through braking and accelerating. I didnt even look, I always just assumed it was measuring a component of the cars speed and/acceleration because of how it slowly rises on straights then plummets under braking Edit: it could be that the graph itself measures an indicator and the way that indicator functions is by how far one part of it is from another measured in terms of [Gap]
@@Loctorak I thought it was gap to the leader, which is true for the last lap data points (BOT, VER, PER, LEC, HAM finishing in that order at those time gaps), but the rest of the graph doesn't make sense if that's true because Bottas should mostly be a flat line at 0. Maybe it's some sort of mix between gap to the leader and a measure of Bottas's changing lap times?
These are never actually available on the app in full when they get published to TH-cam. That seems silly to my. I'm paying for an app and content but have to watch part of it on TH-cam first.
I have to say it was the Mercedes team that kept Hamilton in the DC race, especially for the last 2 races Russia & Turkey. If the team listened to Hamilton's 'gut feel' he would certainly have lost more points in Russia
During the race, on my little book, I pointed that HAM should pit between 38 and 42, whichever best in regards to traffic. Sometimes I get it right, other times I get it wrong. It's satisfying to know that I was right on this occasion (as I was with NOR in Sochi). It is very interesting to me how pure instinct plays a part in these decisions. One knows that it is the right call without necessarily knowing why. It is extremely interesting the calculations which the brain does completely subconsciously. Other times, one gets it completely wrongly! It happened to me more times than I care to remember. Yet, it is very satisfying when you get it right. That is one of the reasons why F1 is so beautiful. So many variables at play, so many complex, subconscious calculations! Just beautiful!
Drivers should let the strategy decisions to the team and focus on driving only, the team has all the data not the driver so if they say box you should box, simple as that.
That’s my initial reaction as well every time I see a driver “disobeying” team orders. But I don’t think it’s so black and white. If it were, the teams wouldn’t be asking the driver what he’s seeing and feeling with the car.
@@danilo352 drivers are sometimes right but most of the time teams get the best decisions, last time Lewis trusted his team he finished p1, this time they probably saved him from a disaster at the end of the race and if he had pited when asked to he would've finished 4th at least and got the fastest lap.
Fairly certain that Lewis would've finished behind Gasly without that late pit stop. I don't like that the team apologized at the end, the real call would've been "we should've pitted earlier like we first planned to get the fourth place".
While Pérez has been somewhat disappointing this year, his tussle with Hamilton was one of the most exciting moments of the season - both the wheel to wheel racing and the anticipation of it as Hamilton chased him down.
Hamilton actually knows what happens, when you stay out too long on used inters, respectively enter the pit lane too late. Here, Mercedes avoided a repeat of Shanghai 07 by doing risk management. Therefore, I was a bit surprised by his reaction. Although, it is understandable, that he was skeptical and frustrated about this weird inter tire.
@@Bahamuttiamat Last year's track surface was much less abrasive, tires didn't wear out as quickly as this year. Although a lot drivers complained about the slippery track last year, I like to see such low grip races, they are more challenging and often interesting.
@@Bahamuttiamat And how much time was Ocon losing on the last lap, or even last few laps, and Lewis needed to do one more lap on his tyres than Estaban.. Lewis would easily have got swamped.. by Perex and possibly Leclerc and gasly even.,
Hamilton just throwing the team under the bus (the team, which has repeatedly made amazing strategical decisions). It was Lewis's fault, that he did not pit the first time he was asked. And he also moans about the team, which made the right decisions. When he wins, it's Hamilton. When he loses, it's the team. Shameful from Hamilton. It's already second time this season
I don't yellow was the best choice for the arrows, I could barely see them watching in my phone. Please switch to a darker colour next time. Great analysis though and I enjoyed the video just wish I could see things clearer
It's funny how the information available today can colour your viewpoint, but damp and wet conditions always add interest. We never had the benefit of team radios and comparative data when James Hunt won the Dutch GP in 1975 or Prost made his seven tyre stops in the 1993 European GP. I wonder what Jolyon's analysis would have made of them.
Can we milk this more? Any other driver would have not gotten this treatment. I'm sorry but it was just a misjudgement by Hamilton and the team should have stepped up. There, I saved you 11 minutes...
It does matter more than someone like Mazepin doing it because he’s the reigning champ and now the lead from Max has increased. I get your point but it is interesting
He is the driver, he is the one who makes the final decision regardless of team orders. That ia by usually how they make the contracts with the racing teams. Still it does poes a unique question since the tyres presented a unique circumstances. And Palmer is absolutely brilliant in his analysis so shush pleb - just got your point but why comment on the video just don't watch it mate.
They should have executed the old "Bottas locks up into turn one" manoeuvre and wipe out half the grid at the start. That was wildly successful, that play.
At first I thought LH44 was right about staying out. He was wrong he should have pitted when he was told to. His experience kinda worked against him this time. Normally the track dries up and the used up inters are the better tire. I remember he won a race last season on this strategy. I think he had that race on mind too. This track never dried up to the end I don't think I ever saw that in F1 either.
As a Max fan I always enjoy Lewis arguing with strategy. Merc is clever, they have strong strategy. Lewis not cooperating makes it a lot harder to be clever
Hamilton has won countless races by changing the strategy & the team are the first to say Lewis called it correct. This time it didn’t work but it won’t stop this happening again .
@@thekitowl Not saying it's impossible to work with spontaneous calls, but one man can never sustainably outdo an entire strategy team. There's plenty of examples where he does get it right but also plenty where he doesn't
@@TypicallyThomas ignore them - anyone that responds to facts they dont like by slapping a generic and reductive label on the person who said them is racing a few divisions lower than you or I if you catch my drift FWIW I like to see a bit of trouble in Mercedes paradise when it happens, too. All the other teams are dealing with challenges all year and plenty of misfortune or disappointment, nice to see Mercedes join the party once in a while as well.
Yea LH probably would’ve had 3rd if pitted when pitwall said to. VB came in on 38 or 39 and LH should’ve come in on 40-41. Everyone was trying to stretch it out & ran into issues, Leclerc being the main one
So many races this year have proven a driver should've listened to their team for a better a result, with the info they have & Hamilton still didn't listen.
Look at the last race. Norris stayed out and lost the race. Lewis wanted to stay out too but came in eventually and won. Had he stayed out, Verstappen would have overtaken him.
Agree! That’s why I think it’s a pity he came in…..would have loved to see him stay out and lose out to quite a few drivers. That’d make him realise the team orders are correct.
Nice analysis. They should show these graphs during the race to give viewers more info. It’s a tough call for sure. That Merc was super fast and Hamilton is known for eeeking out the tyre life. My guess is he would’ve got 3rd or 4th by staying out.
If I understand the graph correctly, it looks like everyone who stopped before Hamilton started doing better at about the same time. Is this the tires coming in after some laps, or the condition of the track improving?
Merc sleeping with strategy. They should've pit him regardless. Lewis told them he wanted to stay out, and only decided to pit when he was told about the gap to Gasly. Lewis couldn't make up his mind
Joylon doesn't stop to impress me with his post-race analysis. Wonderful What-If scenarios exposed.
Yes especially when a lot of ex drivers have proven to have zero analytical skills. Anybody remember how awful Karthikeyan was as an analyst. Oof. Lawrence Baretto is also an Indian journalist and he has great takes. Just goes to show
@@TheUntaintedTreble Lawrence is Indian??
Palmer by far by favorite post race analyst. Great explanations, well spoken and clear data to back it up.
@@SARTHAXBEATZ Lawrence Barretto is a British citizen of Indian ethnicity.
What if he started juggling halfway through a video?
Impress-ception.
You cannot risk to blow up your tires trying a 0 pit stop strategy when you are fighting for the championship.
If Ocon could do it then so could have Lewis
@@metro3313 Ocon was not even in the points, so they were able to take that risk, but Mercedes cant.
@@CarlosdCover It wasn't a risk, it was the smarter decision. He wasn't going any slower than Perez, why pit?
@@metro3313 the risk of pop goes the championship
@@metro3313 It was a risk because Lewis tyres could potentially blew off if it were pressed further up until the final lap.
also, ocon completed 57 laps..hamilton being on the lead lap would've had to do 58 laps..ocon wouldn't have been pushing too much..while hamilton had pushed so much in the initial stages..so i think mercedes were right to call him in when they did..
Sound analysis
Different cars treat their tyres differently and the skills of Hamilton aren't exactly equal to that of Ocon. It's not just as simple as 'based on the result on one car, this is what would have happened to another car.'
Hamilton's car had a bigger rear wing for instance, compared to even his own teammate, which results in higher downforce and less sliding around at the corners, which should in turn help with tyre wear.
@@peterporkeresq.2817 very well said
@@peterporkeresq.2817 no, higher downforce means more wear. It's about the lateral force on the tire, higher force means more wear. F1 cars are not supposed to be sliding around the corners, it's not tokyo drift. They only slide when the driver lost control over the car.
@@rashius
No, not exactly. The better traction you have, the more your tyres stick to the road and the less lateral movement they undergo while cornering. The fact that a car isn't under or oversteering doesn't mean the tyres do not at all move sideways while cornering, even on road cars, tyres aren't perfectly planted on the road and the more you move laterally, the more rubber you leave on the track.
That is why you have lockups and flat spots when you have over or understeer due to poor traction, and ruin your tyres, and you don't have over or understeer when you have adequate traction.
Using yellow arrows is the biggest misunderstanding of this video
I feel like Hamilton should've pitted as soon as Verstappen pitted, so even before Perez. Not only were they sure of the tire choice (can't do anything wrong with the same tire-choice as your rival) but also they had a chance to undercut Perez. Hamilton was right behind him by then. I was actually surprised when they stayed out and tried to overtake Perez. Things could've already ended badly there.
But then he would've come out in a heavy traffic behind norris and gasly
@@ahmedadelsorour6407 correct, but hey still had to pit. The first 4 laps on new tires were apparently not so great anyway, so by then both Norris and Gasly would have pitted. Difficult decision I'm sure, but I would have focused the strategy more on Verstappen.
Your most likely right, but as a f1 fan it's fun seeing drivers try stick it out
I think Hamilton out of race on first fight with others drivers. He try defend and out or crash
There were no undercuts in these conditions.
The tyres took way to long to get temperature.
Really enjoy seeing this detailed data. The graph was kinda hard to read because the lines were so thin. Also it might've been nice to have Ocon's gap on there. Thanks anyway
After the race one of the Sky Sports announcers said Ovon was losing 4 seconds a lap at the end of the race.
Don't figure-shame the data lines. They're plotted that way.
@@Loctorak Who's figure shaming anything?
This for me is driver error.
He either pits when originally asked and with his greater pace is very likely to get 3rd.
Or he stays out.
Once he decided a halfway house strategy, it was all over.
Exactly my point! But I also agree with Jolyon that Mercedes had to pit Lewis a few laps earlier despite having traffic behind.
I think it was team as error as well. After seeing that he will have to change I would put soft tyres on instead of inter less than 15 laps remaining worth the gamble
@@bl41ck97 Would have been worth the gamble for Ferrari not Hamilton who's fighting for the championship. Too much risk, if they don't work he's out of the points.
@@bl41ck97 That'd be even worse. At that point, it was damage control. Minimizing points lost. Ham will have 6 more races to gain back the 6 points.
If this race is the title decider, then yes I'd say that's a worthwhile gamble.
i think both parties are at fault simply because the team should have told hamilton that he needs to get through the graining period and it’s imperative if he puts it on earlier, just poor communication from both parties
More bright yellow arrows on a white background please, love it.
Sarcasm at its best
You guys complaining about this seriously need to either calibrate your screen or buy a better one. It looks fine.
I was halfway through the video before I realized he was marking stuff up, lol. I couldn’t see anything!
@@CaptainKenway calibration aside, it's gotta be one of the most low contrast colour combos to choose if you want it to be easily visible for the most people. Like making it black with dark indigo arrows - still hard to see
I think both the content creator and the end consumer have a level of responsibility when it comes to making the video accessibly visible.
@@wallymcguire2033 stop being blind then
Lewis was making a decision when he didn't have all the information he needed to make the right decision. The team was right, new inters was the way to go which was clear to anyone watching the race and pitting earlier rather than later was going to be faster overall because of the graining period. Doing the whole race on one set had a very slim chance of success with a very high chance of it backfiring spectacularly which was a risk not worth taking in such a tight championship. Lewis asked the team if the tires would last after he had decided to stay out so he clearly had doubts they would make it to the end.
Lewis asked for to pit earlier before Perez so he was happy to pit, but Merc left him out far too long and too close to the end so he thought they should risk it to the end.
In the end p5 is a lot better then dnf
What if he gets to p3 with destroyed tires and fights Perez or leclerc with new tires... that's where it gets very tricky and a dnf is very possible and the tires might have not lasted... Hamilton should have listen to his team when the first call was made period. Looking at his tires when they remove them u can clearly see they are no longer intermediate... they are done.
but according to Lewis if Ocon went the whole race on intermediates, then he certainly could do it ..personally I disagree with Lewis on this one but I'm just a fan of the overall sport. What do I know .
These little 10-min detailed analysis clips are fascinating, interesting and impressive. Please keep them coming! Thanks Joylon 👍🏻
Race weekend isn't over till jolyons analysis
Palmer is a joke
WHERE IS PALMER
It’s a really great analysis (as always) but uncharacteristically it could have been presented much much more clearly with a series of slides that declutter the traces that aren’t directly being talked about in the moment. I had to stop several times to see the yellow arrows against a white background. Elementary power point skills would have resolved this
Thanks Jolyon.
Really helpful - instead of shouting at the TV I can now appreciate the analytics - and still shout at the TV
I love Jolyon Palmer’s analyses. Keep them coming pls 🙏🏻
You should check out the full versions on f1tv. They're usually half-hour segments that go through the whole race from start to finish. That's the only other thing I watch other than the race/sessions themselves lol
This man spitting facts whilst everyone else complains about Mercedes doing the wrong strategy. Great job.
well, they did. Lewis requested to be pitted much earlier to do the undercut and the team failed to do it. would have guaranteed 3rd if they did. they wait way to long before telling him to pit first time around, should have done it right after perez. whilst a risk of a tire failure, i think Lewis probably would have got 4th if he went to the end.
@@ddha0000 This is not correct. Merc could not do the undercut to Perez because if the pitted before him, they would release him into traffic (Gasly/Norris). Hamilton would have lost out massively if they had done that.
@@frodo5882 did Perez lose out? not really. again, why not pit after Perez? made no sense.
@@ddha0000 I think they were hoping that with Perez out of the way for a bit, Hamilton could push more for a couple of laps before pitting. That could then make him further up the road and able to defend through the end stages of the graining process.
Unfortunately for that strategy, Hamilton disagreed and stayed out. They then spent a couple of laps deciding on their options before it was too late to pit and win out on strategy. At that point they could only try and hang on, but the tyres were unlikely to make it so they pitted for safety. It's not too dissimilar to what happened with Leclerc where they were just hoping the tyres would last - they didn't and he'd have lost more time/potentially crashed if he stayed out.
Let's see what happens in alternate realities in other universes, after joining Jolyon in pondering the question, "WHAT IF".
LoL
Haa 🤣🤣🤣
yeah...it would be really interesting to see and hear what Stephen Hawking would have made of the Turkey GP and where HAM might have ended up.....:-)
Kind of frustrating to pay for F1TV and then see it posted to TH-cam and still not available on F1TV to see the full recap
Great analysis as always.i always look forward to this after every race.
Check Ocon's POV. His last lap is basically a formation lap, he was on throttle so late
Jolyon is really on point with his analysis, dude does a bang on job of explaining everything 🤙
This is the kind of analysis I was looking for. Really insightful and clear. Jolyon Palmer does a great job every race week. 👍
Weird one to mark things with a bright yellow on white ground...
Again lewis is disgruntled about a decision that his crew made but I really feel that his staying out effectively put himself in the position he ended up finishing. Had he pitted when his crew asked him to there would have been more race left for him to effect a difference but he decided that he wouldn’t and now he has to live with the result.
I would also like to add that I wonder how much Max effects Lewis’s choices, to me I believe it is hampering his game but if he gets smart quickly and focuses on being the best he can be for the team and his self.
Every freaking point makes a difference from here on out so leave nothing on the table racing is going to be the season we will all get to watch.
When I saw Perez pit after his battle with Hamilton, I thought that Mercedes had instructed Lewis to do the opposite of Perez so either pit before him or pit the next lap after him if Perez pits. I was very surprised to see Hamilton not pit and continue on .If he had pitted the lap after Perez he would have been able to continue the battle with Perez and with the Mercs better downforce he could have been more aggressive with his tires and in the corners and would have had a great chance of gettting by Perez and Leclerc because the Mercs were the fastest cars on the track.
Hammilton asked team to pit before Perez and team said him to stay on track.
Yup Hamilton gambling for no rain tire change at the end of the race this time didn't work... he can't be always lucky...
So true, but it seems like Hamilton only wants to do undercuts these days instead of fighting it out on track.
Lulu's just not that bright.
He should've pitted when the team suggested. Trying to run the whole race when the same set of tires was the worst option with no better but potential disastrous result.
There were basically multiple strategies in play in the race by different teams and it was pretty interesting.
Early race Pit: RIC, didn't work
Pit for Slicks: VET, bad idea
Mid race pit: VER, PER, in hindsight probably the most optimal
Late race pit: HAM, not very optimal
No-pit race: OCO, horrible pace towards the end and high risk of tire blow out
I think such vague conditions is probably the best in terms of seeing how the teams and drivers react.
When Hamilton wins, he is a nice guy and he thanks the team.
When he loses, he is the worst nightmare and just starts to complain nonstop in the radio. And says things like, “mistakes? For the team, yes. For me, no.” “I told you”
What a guy
Which, strangely enough is what everyone is. As Vettel said, defending Lewis when he was back at Ferrari, you can't judge anyone by what they are saying in the middle of the race and just after, when adrenaline is flowing.
Hamilton won at Sochi by listening to his team.
Amazing how he didn´t learned a lesson from the hole Noris staying out situation
amazing youre on your coch and not in an f1 car
Too bad Hamilton didn't listen to his gut in Russia and Turkey. In Istanbul he could have gotten a tire failure and DNF. Max would now have a comfortable lead in the championship. The Mercedes team are much better than their star driver this season.
Lol just ignore hungary huh? Merc and Lewis have been together 8 years its give and take
@@GPowtlaw2 I have no idea what happened in Hungary :))) Anyway, LH should listen to his team, they know better, or at least more than him :)) And they have been together for 8 years because they had the best car, otherwise he would have left ages ago.
Another imp point : LEWIS WAS RUNNING ON A HIGHER DOWNFORCE SETUP ...which was giving him a better speed in corners.....which somewhere would have also increased the chances of tyre blowout
Hamilton should have listened to his team the first time around. Simple.
Exactly, but because he "works as a team", he doesn't need to listen to them. He did throw them under the bus in the post race interview though.
@@valle3452 he works as a team when he wins. Else his team made him lose the race. That's how his mind works.
@@valle3452 Lewis requested the undercut and the team failed to give it to him. that is 100% the teams fault.
and his team should have listened to him when Lewis asked to be pitted BEFORE perez for the undercut. for the 4th time this season, Merc's poor strategy costed them.
@@ddha0000 what undercut.? With the tyre graining phase the new tyres were actually slower / similar to olds. With intermediate tyres on a partly trying track a undercut would have never worked. Palmers graphic proved it.
The right call should have been pitting before Perez.HAM would have been a comfortable 3rd.The problem is that in Merc pit wall they sleep deeply during races...we have seen it many times this year.
Would’ve preferred to watch Lewis go to the end and lose the positions to Leclerc and Gasly with only himself to blame.
big time
Amen
would have still finished 5th but at least he would have a chance
He was never getting overtaken by Perez or Leclerc.
@@TheTororist there's no guarantee he'd have finished 5th as he would have have to defend against Perez and leclerc which would cost him time and tyre Deg...
hamilton arguing constantly delays merc decisions
I personally would've loved to see what would happen if Hamilton did decide to stay out. Being overtaken by Perez in the end? That would've been interesting to watch
would have been either p3 or a blow-up. huge risk little reward.
@@shankarsaraswat5149 P3 is optimistic. Ocon lost 30s to Alonso on the last 8 laps. With that kind of delta to Bottas, Lewis would have been passed by Gasly. Considering he had to do one more lap than Ocon, and that Ocon was losing 8 seconds on the final laps, likely overtaken even by Norris.
I haven’t even watched the video yet but liked it straight away for Jolyon’s analysis
I still remember "where is palmer???" Fernando "Palmer is out of the race" karma!!!🙄😂🤣🤣
Karma for Palmer
We can't just project linear lap times without taking to account interaction with the other drivers. Even if tyre performance itself didn't drop off as much for Lewis, the first time he was defending his position and went a bit off line, the slickermediates he was in would loose temperature, and with so little tread, they would not be able to gain it again.
He might end up in the Vettel Scenario, looking at a crash or painfully slow lap (s) until he managed to make it to the pits
Always a balanced and insightful analysis, thank you
For next year I am sure I will subscribe for F1TV. This kind of content is amazing.
Thanks Joylon,always like your analysis,gives me more understanding and I appreciate.
Very enjoyable detailed analysis Jolyon, many thanks for that. ONE QUESTION: the graph shows a gap (in sec) on the vertical axis to what/whom?
I have this same question. Can anyone enlighten us?
I want to say its the gap from the current lap delta, but that doesn't add up with how the line moves as the car goes through braking and accelerating. I didnt even look, I always just assumed it was measuring a component of the cars speed and/acceleration because of how it slowly rises on straights then plummets under braking
Edit: it could be that the graph itself measures an indicator and the way that indicator functions is by how far one part of it is from another measured in terms of [Gap]
@@Loctorak I thought it was gap to the leader, which is true for the last lap data points (BOT, VER, PER, LEC, HAM finishing in that order at those time gaps), but the rest of the graph doesn't make sense if that's true because Bottas should mostly be a flat line at 0.
Maybe it's some sort of mix between gap to the leader and a measure of Bottas's changing lap times?
Best part of any race weekend, Jolyon’s review on what happened.
These are never actually available on the app in full when they get published to TH-cam. That seems silly to my. I'm paying for an app and content but have to watch part of it on TH-cam first.
Very interesting insights, although I would like to see the margin of error/deviation on the graph of the estimated graph lines!
great analysis, thank you for running us through the numbers
I have to say it was the Mercedes team that kept Hamilton in the DC race, especially for the last 2 races Russia & Turkey. If the team listened to Hamilton's 'gut feel' he would certainly have lost more points in Russia
Jolson is one of the best commentators out there. His analysis is balanced, I have not seen bias in him.
FYI, the yellow pen you are using is pretty invisible to us! Thanks.
During the race, on my little book, I pointed that HAM should pit between 38 and 42, whichever best in regards to traffic.
Sometimes I get it right, other times I get it wrong.
It's satisfying to know that I was right on this occasion (as I was with NOR in Sochi).
It is very interesting to me how pure instinct plays a part in these decisions. One knows that it is the right call without necessarily knowing why. It is extremely interesting the calculations which the brain does completely subconsciously.
Other times, one gets it completely wrongly! It happened to me more times than I care to remember. Yet, it is very satisfying when you get it right.
That is one of the reasons why F1 is so beautiful. So many variables at play, so many complex, subconscious calculations! Just beautiful!
I still can't read these graphs. Thank you, Jolyon for dumbing them down for me
Great analysis! Thanks. But please dont use a yellow marker on a white chart. Barely visible on screen. Cheers
Drivers should let the strategy decisions to the team and focus on driving only, the team has all the data not the driver so if they say box you should box, simple as that.
That’s my initial reaction as well every time I see a driver “disobeying” team orders. But I don’t think it’s so black and white. If it were, the teams wouldn’t be asking the driver what he’s seeing and feeling with the car.
you sound 12.... drivers have often made better calls than the team
@@steveb6718 no they have not. Driver calls succeeding has always been a rare thing. There's a reason the strategy team gets paid lol.
@@steveb6718 no, you
@@danilo352 drivers are sometimes right but most of the time teams get the best decisions, last time Lewis trusted his team he finished p1, this time they probably saved him from a disaster at the end of the race and if he had pited when asked to he would've finished 4th at least and got the fastest lap.
Fairly certain that Lewis would've finished behind Gasly without that late pit stop. I don't like that the team apologized at the end, the real call would've been "we should've pitted earlier like we first planned to get the fourth place".
The full episode is still not on f1 tv pro. Come on guys!
ah yes, time to enjoy more of jolyon palmer's analysis
Amazing analysis! What absolutely gets me is the armchair strategists saying Hamilton would have guaranteed 3rd if Mercedes had let him stay out.
Incredible analysis, thanks Jolyon and F1!
While Pérez has been somewhat disappointing this year, his tussle with Hamilton was one of the most exciting moments of the season - both the wheel to wheel racing and the anticipation of it as Hamilton chased him down.
In hindsight, pitting earlier than anyone in the race was probably the right move, get the graining done early
Hamilton actually knows what happens, when you stay out too long on used inters, respectively enter the pit lane too late. Here, Mercedes avoided a repeat of Shanghai 07 by doing risk management. Therefore, I was a bit surprised by his reaction. Although, it is understandable, that he was skeptical and frustrated about this weird inter tire.
@@Bahamuttiamat Last year's track surface was much less abrasive, tires didn't wear out as quickly as this year.
Although a lot drivers complained about the slippery track last year, I like to see such low grip races, they are more challenging and often interesting.
@@Bahamuttiamat And how much time was Ocon losing on the last lap, or even last few laps, and Lewis needed to do one more lap on his tyres than Estaban.. Lewis would easily have got swamped.. by Perex and possibly Leclerc and gasly even.,
Clear, Concise, pondering, beautiful.
A Palmer video that actually provides insights, let's go
Hamilton just throwing the team under the bus (the team, which has repeatedly made amazing strategical decisions).
It was Lewis's fault, that he did not pit the first time he was asked.
And he also moans about the team, which made the right decisions.
When he wins, it's Hamilton.
When he loses, it's the team.
Shameful from Hamilton.
It's already second time this season
I was hoping they didn't bring him in lol, pop!
This is my favorite series on this channel
I don't yellow was the best choice for the arrows, I could barely see them watching in my phone. Please switch to a darker colour next time. Great analysis though and I enjoyed the video just wish I could see things clearer
Why does F1 release this on TH-cam before F1TV?
What if. Scenarios are amazing
I liked that overkill intro.....
Kind of got me into the Rythm....
But anyway, nice to see you Jolyon😉
no way hamilton could have defended against perez and leclerc on these tires, just look how tsunoda wreckt his tires defending against hamilton.
It's funny how the information available today can colour your viewpoint, but damp and wet conditions always add interest. We never had the benefit of team radios and comparative data when James Hunt won the Dutch GP in 1975 or Prost made his seven tyre stops in the 1993 European GP. I wonder what Jolyon's analysis would have made of them.
Great Analysis Joylon! Thank you!
Yellow arrows on white background is very hard to see. Use a darker colour
Serious question, how is the post race analysis for Turkey, which isn't the full analysis, uploaded on TH-cam before it's uploaded on F1TV
Best analyst in racing.
Great job from Jolyon as always...👍✌️
Great analysis, thoroughly enjoyed.
I’m really worried about the Mercedes car being way too dominant again. It has been the fastest since the summer break..
Can we milk this more? Any other driver would have not gotten this treatment. I'm sorry but it was just a misjudgement by Hamilton and the team should have stepped up. There, I saved you 11 minutes...
It does matter more than someone like Mazepin doing it because he’s the reigning champ and now the lead from Max has increased. I get your point but it is interesting
They’re obviously gonna focus on a moment that is important in a championship battle, just like if it happened to max
@@szillar3283 if Max wins the championship they will talk about how Lewis lost it.
He is the driver, he is the one who makes the final decision regardless of team orders. That ia by usually how they make the contracts with the racing teams. Still it does poes a unique question since the tyres presented a unique circumstances. And Palmer is absolutely brilliant in his analysis so shush pleb - just got your point but why comment on the video just don't watch it mate.
Bruh he lost the podium because of the missed opportunity, yeah people are gonna talk about it. Just accept that they made a mistake.
why do you always post the video on youtube so much earlier than it's actually available in f1tv???
It's always a gamble, They should have pitted Lewis immediately when they see perez being quicker than him, right at that moment.
They should have executed the old "Bottas locks up into turn one" manoeuvre and wipe out half the grid at the start. That was wildly successful, that play.
Like many people, I'm colorblind so pointing out the line colors doesn't work for me. Maybe next time you can write the names next to the lines?
At first I thought LH44 was right about staying out. He was wrong he should have pitted when he was told to. His experience kinda worked against him this time. Normally the track dries up and the used up inters are the better tire. I remember he won a race last season on this strategy. I think he had that race on mind too. This track never dried up to the end I don't think I ever saw that in F1 either.
We would never know what he could/would have achieved, to pretend like we do because of projections of laptimes is disingenuous.
Jolyon is always the best, clear and to the point. Thank you!
As a Max fan I always enjoy Lewis arguing with strategy. Merc is clever, they have strong strategy. Lewis not cooperating makes it a lot harder to be clever
Hamilton has won countless races by changing the strategy & the team are the first to say Lewis called it correct. This time it didn’t work but it won’t stop this happening again .
@@thekitowl Not saying it's impossible to work with spontaneous calls, but one man can never sustainably outdo an entire strategy team. There's plenty of examples where he does get it right but also plenty where he doesn't
@@TypicallyThomas typical Max fan then.
@@thekitowl Not sure what you mean by that, but I assure you while my username may be Typically Thomas, I tend to find I'm rarely typical in any sense
@@TypicallyThomas ignore them - anyone that responds to facts they dont like by slapping a generic and reductive label on the person who said them is racing a few divisions lower than you or I if you catch my drift
FWIW I like to see a bit of trouble in Mercedes paradise when it happens, too. All the other teams are dealing with challenges all year and plenty of misfortune or disappointment, nice to see Mercedes join the party once in a while as well.
Why isn't the full version on F1TV yet?
Would love to have these type of data during the race :)
Yea LH probably would’ve had 3rd if pitted when pitwall said to. VB came in on 38 or 39 and LH should’ve come in on 40-41. Everyone was trying to stretch it out & ran into issues, Leclerc being the main one
So many races this year have proven a driver should've listened to their team for a better a result, with the info they have & Hamilton still didn't listen.
For safety reasons FIA should force teams to pit at least once even in wet conditions.
if u need that much safety, go watch tennis please
@@steveb6718 F1 is all about safety, if you don't want that much safety go watch street fighting please.
Why is this clip on TH-cam I’d the whole thing isn’t even on F1TV Pro yet?
Look at the last race. Norris stayed out and lost the race. Lewis wanted to stay out too but came in eventually and won. Had he stayed out, Verstappen would have overtaken him.
Agree! That’s why I think it’s a pity he came in…..would have loved to see him stay out and lose out to quite a few drivers. That’d make him realise the team orders are correct.
once the performance drops off its time to pit! otherwise things can go pop
Please choose thicker line and more vibrant colour
Change the chat background to black, easier to see on mobile 📱
Why not Medium Tyres on Lap 50. It was really dry. Is it because of the cold temperature of the surface?
Nice analysis. They should show these graphs during the race to give viewers more info. It’s a tough call for sure. That Merc was super fast and Hamilton is known for eeeking out the tyre life. My guess is he would’ve got 3rd or 4th by staying out.
Imagine if Hamilton refused third call for pit and had a tyre blowout in last laps. That would be perfect lightning McQueen meme
If I understand the graph correctly, it looks like everyone who stopped before Hamilton started doing better at about the same time. Is this the tires coming in after some laps, or the condition of the track improving?
Merc sleeping with strategy. They should've pit him regardless. Lewis told them he wanted to stay out, and only decided to pit when he was told about the gap to Gasly.
Lewis couldn't make up his mind
@Spike S don't forget they wanted to pit him last year at Turkey and he did the right thing and stayed out not risking the pit lane entry.