This gimbal was patented back in 1977, as of now it's open market design. Due to this any company can include them without any legal issues to be fair.
Nicely explained, but my argument would be if it's a standard design for decades, and not a copied design I would say then naturally WinWing's design would have some differences at least. How can they have almost the same screw holes, and shapes, and everything almost same? Ignoring the legal and patent part, a kid could say they both are identical. A steering wheel is a standard equipment in car, yet we know different manufactures have different designs. Also a CAM based gimbal can also be considered a standard, yet we can see that WW has put enough effort in designing that it's different from VKB, Virpl, Thrustmaster's CAM based gimbals. So, i think in case of a pincer gimbal, they could also have looked different from Gladiator EVO if they would have designed from scratch instead of referring to VKB's design.
They 100% stole the design, however, what they did is likely completely legal. VKB has way better software and a million times worse firmware updates. VKB couldn’t even tell what firmware to install on my joysticks when asked on discord. Firmware updates just works with winwing, their software is very basic though.
"VKB has way better software" Lmao, calling their software a plus is a post-taco bell ass blast on WinSim because it's ... not great. Still on VKB's side here.
@@x60mmx It allows you to do everything. Every button, LED, and axis can be change, It has virtual mouse and keyboard, It's not only great, it's epic! I'm really puzzled what don't you like about it?
@@GoldenGnu The UI and documentation is atrocious.
19 วันที่ผ่านมา
I have a WW left side stick and I tried to follow the instructions on VKBs on how to leave the forward movement unsprung, so it can work as a regular throttle. It wouldn't work. The spring placement is internally different, and the hooking points are reversed, so I had to get creative with the WW.
Here's my thing. if they get the job done at a similar level if not exact, then I would buy the cheapest one available and be done with it. Winwing may have been "inspired" by the same design that VKB has but both operates at a similar level at a lower price. At least I will have more buttons to work with. If VKB sells on amazon, I would have bought it. However, the shipping fee is not worth the purchase considering the risk of having to return it with another x2 shipping fee if it arrived damaged and getting another. At least Winwing is selling their stick in amazon with free shipping.
It is nice that it is on Amazon. The gimbals perform similarly but you have the option to swap out the springs for the VKB and the VKB has better build quality
@@dcs_one Definitely. VKB has better quality and replaceable parts. I really do want one but I have to settle for Winwing's instead which I don't mind since i been watching and reading reviews about it. I dont remember if Winwing gives spare parts like the spring if it so happens that it breaks. Does it?
VKB probably has nothing legal on WW, it's great WW brought it to lower tier, but the "inspiration" is pretty obvious. It's not a new implementation of the well-known design, it's nearly a replica of VKB's design. That said, VKB can also try to bring it to cheaper joysticks and serve the market just above things like T.16000M. If there was something like this for ~100 bucks when I started, I'd likely at least consider it (looking back, I'd definitely skip HotasX at least). I like my Gladiator and it will hopefully work fine for many more years.
People did and still do, it is about the morality of copying their design and pricing it at half. They didn’t have a development cost, that’s why they can price it cheaper
@@dcs_one The stick is a Russian design. Good on WinWing for shaking up the market by making the internals higher quality. I just ordered one direct from them for less than 100 pounds. Free shipping. Amazing
@@Niallistical It's not. VKB is based on the Russian name, but the company is from Shenzhen. Always was China-made. Yes, the overall looks/feel is based on a Russian stick, but that's where the similarity ends.
I am one of the people who don't care. You know what I do care about though? That i can get ursa minor on amazon. That when i tried to order VKB originally on top of the cost, they wanted me go pay 80$ Shipping on top of the taxes. Screw the moral argument, it kinda dies when you want me to increase my purchase by 1/3rd on an already expensive purchase.
*Screw the moral argument....* Yeah, who cares it's produced under a police state regime that installs anti-suicide nets under factory windows. At least you saved enough to buy a few McDonalds combos. 🤡 Don't worry, you're such a good person.
@@x60mmx Most of the stuff we use comes from China anyways. Stuff you buy has Chinese components. VKB gladiator was assembled in China. I had one and shipped from over there. How is that a good argument? I’m aware I’m resurrecting an old comment. I just baffles me lol
@@chasebergeron6003 I buy from my own country, followed by decent countries where-ever possible. Always possible? No, but it often is to at least some degree.
3:35 This was my issue with VKB's claims of theft. The base gimbal design is half a century old, yet they were basically pretending they came up with it. While the final designs are very similar, there is also a limited amount of ways to package that gimbal mechanism into the space available inside a joystick base, so convergent design is a possibility. Having said that, I think Winwing definitely 'took inspiration of' VKB's design, but VKB doesn't really have a leg to stand on since they copied the mechanism from someone else as well. They lost a lot of respect from me for trying to mobilize the fanbase by giving the impression the gimbal system was their invention.
l've purchased this winwing based off all the reviews lm happy there is a company out there that has made it affordable for entry level players to own a high end quality product for a fraction of the price, the more competition in this niche is better for all of us the consumer we get good deals! 😁
The grips aren't really the point of contention (they are both vaguely soviet-inspired though the VKB one has some F-16 influences) it's the gimbal. I know many people are new and probably didn't handle any stick before the market got reduced to the Thrustmaster-Saitek/Logitech duopoly, but while pincer designs aren't new it's basically unheard of for them to be interchangeable between sticks of different manifacturers, there isn't just the one way to do it (one example is my CH Products Fighterstick USB which also has a pincer design but looks different). Winwing could have easily just stolen the idea of adding clutches to the pincer design without copying the VKB iteration wholesale and yet here we are, maybe it's not illegal but it surely is bad form.
As a consumer, I have trouble outlining to you how LITTLE I care if one Chinese company copies the designs of another and offers them in a competitively priced product.
I purchased a pair of VKB NXTs when they were fresh on the market and immediately noticed stiction on the twist. It was easily solved by regreasing the mechanism, but when I notified VKB about it they chided me for "demanding too much" or something. That being said, they're worth the price and I'd still recommend them to anyone not willing to pay out for Virpil and willing to grease them. Besides, the Brits are my cousins. Review of the NXTs on my channel.
I recommend you to read the copyright law, so as not to say later that both manufacturers were inspired by each other's design. VKB did the first to create such a gimbal design, so they can claim all rights to this design even in court without any patent. Gladiator NXT and their gimbal were developed and presented to the public in 2020. I don't understand what 10 years Winwing is talking about.
@@dcs_one I think they don't want to do it for some reason. Or maybe they are preparing this case in this moment. I don't know. But if you are a good intellectual property lawyer, then you should contact VKB. This case is 90% winnable
The gimbal design wasn't invented by VKB, as you see in the video the design was already patented in 1977. VKB used the design from the (nomore valid) patent and used it. WinWing also took the existing design and used it. So both copied something existing.
@@KernicDE Let's not distort the facts. This patent describes the basic principle of the mechanics on which almost all joysticks are built today. I have no questions for Logitech or Thrustmaster, because they used this previously patented technology with their UNIQUE design. We are talking about the fact that Winwing stole the DESIGN, and not the principle of the gimbal mechanics. But if you even think that the design in the pictures in the patent and what VKB eventually did and then Winwing stole from it are the same thing, then you clearly need to go to an ophthalmologist. For the sake of experiment, you can insert the gimbal from VKB Gladiator NXT into Wingwin and it will fit there like a native. Try inserting the mechanics from Gladiator NXT into the same Thrustmaster or Logitech, then good luck to you
@ The second picture of the patent looks really similar to the VKB and Winwing solution to me. Two axes connected by a rectangular frame. Yeah, patent is using potentiometers instead of hall effect sensors, but the overall design is the same. The main idea here is the frame that separates X and Y axis - this is completely different to a ball design. Ofc the build of the mechanics is rather similar and there is no doubt, that Winwing took inspiration from VKB. But VKB was inspired by other too, that is the way when a patent isn’t valid anymore. Like car motors are very similar, smartphones are very similar and ball pens too. So yeah, the WinWing sells a freely usable mechanic for a lower price and most likely lower quality. The differences are slightly in mechanic, the stick itself is oriented on jets (like VKB ones) but for me the button layout is different enough to separate them. If the mechanics would be some new and unique one, VKB could file a patent for it. Patents are there so protect you from others to get the invested money back. But they didn’t. Why? See Lego, they had a patent, they used it, now there are many competitors. Why nobody complains about them? Because at some point competition is necessary to avoid monopoles.
Winwing obv stole the design and I'll avoid them for future purchases. VKB does such a good job with their designs, they were even able to release a DIY update to upgrade the original NXT to EVO. Very impressive product design.
The idea of that gimbal is old. I've seen similar ideas in DIY space way before VKB made theirs. However, the design of the gimbal is 100% a copy. Some parts too I'd say that they are a copy not a "same idea". I don't know it's even worth internationally fighting a china based company over it tho. Sucks, but modern china's been like that for ages now. As a customer standpoint, It's also good that there is a cheap good quality product that challenges VKB and Virpil to be more competitive. I do wish that they did that in more original way, but I'd say it's still a W for customers. not a clean w but a w nonetheless.
This seems like an odd claim to me. The sticks externally are nothing alike (ie button placements) and while the gimbals are similar they're the same type of gimbal, that has been around for years no less, so that's what you'd expect and there's several differences in manufacturing that you can tell just from a glance.
@@dcs_one They don't though, they're clearly completely different moulds. Their mounting screwholes lining up is the only suspicious part (assuming they did line up perfectly and you didn't have to misalign any screws or anything) but that might just be due to the form factor they're in being essentially identical since due to the design there's essentially only one place where you can put mounting screws.
This is just par for the course in regard to intellectual property rights in China. Patents aren't worth the paper they're printed on to Chinese Companies. So why would Winwing think twice about copying the gimbal almost exactly from VKB so much so that you could swap them between bases? And conversely, VKB was likely aware that another competitor could poach their design without consequence. It was probably not worth the cost, time and effort for VKB to apply for a new patent for the updated design only to have it ignored.
id never buy one but i still posted the winwing to discord, i trust vkb and their price is unbeatable at that quality level, but a virpil guy might say that about vkb everyone has a budget and a particular level of interest and i think if your kinda interested and have a limited budget winwing is better then a thrustmaster t16000m to start with
Can you hot swap the parts between them (not including the springs and screws) ? If so then it is 100% a stolen design. While companies will come to the same form factor on overall operation, and will reuse small parts that are already made for obvious cost reasons, if we can swap the clutches, the clutch arms, the brackets etc, Even with them being "reorientated" then yes, Winwing just copied VKB and should be shunned. For example, the 4 cycle internal piston design is a century plus old, but you will not be able to swap internals from various manufacturers unless they used each other's engines under contract (or are doing what winwing is alleged of doing like Iran's IKCO does with producing "not" Peugeots, or how you have 15 million different pistols that operate under the same striker fire system that Glock designed in the 80's but nothing can be swapped between them. I want to get my hands on one to fuck around with and my NXT's to see if the parts are swappable. Because like I said, if so, the URSA should be on the nono list of sticks. Which if you watched this video....well you know the answer.
Vkb cannot say they own a Soviet fighter stick design, for one. Without a patent, they can’t claim the mechanism either. Being that they use the same design and mechanism, solutions will also be similar when engineering the product. They have different control types and button layouts where the design was less limited, in the base. So, they have wildly different bases, which is to be expected from separately designed products, not copied products. In conclusion. Get rekt VKB
Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ -135$ and WINWING URSA MINOR Fighter Joystick R -132$ on Amazon. Where is the comfortable price for entry-level??? so if the price is the same what is the point of getting Wingwing which is low quality, The only reason is WINWING has more buttons don't he side
Again, these variants are not the ones I was comparing. I compared the premium version of the gladiator nxt. This I would say is the top end of budget flight sticks before mid range ones. T16000 on sale is priced entry level
@dcs_one ok the premium is 175 and this 135 its still not even close base on quality and durability for entry-level. It's only 40$ differences and a specially if you can get not premium for same price as WINWWING. why you need premium for entry level?
The WinWing is not low quality. The buttons feel the same on both sticks. The base is a little better on the VKB and the grip feels more grippy, but so far as build quality goes they are almost similar. VKB feels more robust and you get more options. However there is nothing it does that the WinWIng cannot do. The software for WinWing is terrible, but functional
Yeah it’s not a big deal at all and everyone seems to be virtue signaling about integrity as if this is a 7th grade science fair and not multinational private corporations.
This gimbal was patented back in 1977, as of now it's open market design.
Due to this any company can include them without any legal issues to be fair.
Nicely explained, but my argument would be if it's a standard design for decades, and not a copied design I would say then naturally WinWing's design would have some differences at least. How can they have almost the same screw holes, and shapes, and everything almost same?
Ignoring the legal and patent part, a kid could say they both are identical.
A steering wheel is a standard equipment in car, yet we know different manufactures have different designs.
Also a CAM based gimbal can also be considered a standard, yet we can see that WW has put enough effort in designing that it's different from VKB, Virpl, Thrustmaster's CAM based gimbals. So, i think in case of a pincer gimbal, they could also have looked different from Gladiator EVO if they would have designed from scratch instead of referring to VKB's design.
Yeah, if you would put them both in front of me when I haven’t seen them yet, I would say they are practically the same
Hey, it was fun, and thanks for the opportunity to help out 😊
Glad you were there🙌
Winwing: yes we stole it but we made it cheaper. so don't cry
you can't even understand the video 😂
lol
Not quite what they said
@@dcs_one Hello everyone. Can I have a link to the answer that WW gave? Please
@@dcs_one It's exactly what they said. They don't innovate, they cut corners.
They 100% stole the design, however, what they did is likely completely legal.
VKB has way better software and a million times worse firmware updates. VKB couldn’t even tell what firmware to install on my joysticks when asked on discord. Firmware updates just works with winwing, their software is very basic though.
Legal in china.
Yeah, the VKB software was quite good
"VKB has way better software" Lmao, calling their software a plus is a post-taco bell ass blast on WinSim because it's ... not great. Still on VKB's side here.
@@x60mmx It allows you to do everything. Every button, LED, and axis can be change, It has virtual mouse and keyboard, It's not only great, it's epic! I'm really puzzled what don't you like about it?
@@GoldenGnu The UI and documentation is atrocious.
I have a WW left side stick and I tried to follow the instructions on VKBs on how to leave the forward movement unsprung, so it can work as a regular throttle. It wouldn't work. The spring placement is internally different, and the hooking points are reversed, so I had to get creative with the WW.
Here's my thing. if they get the job done at a similar level if not exact, then I would buy the cheapest one available and be done with it. Winwing may have been "inspired" by the same design that VKB has but both operates at a similar level at a lower price. At least I will have more buttons to work with. If VKB sells on amazon, I would have bought it. However, the shipping fee is not worth the purchase considering the risk of having to return it with another x2 shipping fee if it arrived damaged and getting another. At least Winwing is selling their stick in amazon with free shipping.
It is nice that it is on Amazon. The gimbals perform similarly but you have the option to swap out the springs for the VKB and the VKB has better build quality
@@dcs_one Definitely. VKB has better quality and replaceable parts. I really do want one but I have to settle for Winwing's instead which I don't mind since i been watching and reading reviews about it. I dont remember if Winwing gives spare parts like the spring if it so happens that it breaks. Does it?
VKB probably has nothing legal on WW, it's great WW brought it to lower tier, but the "inspiration" is pretty obvious. It's not a new implementation of the well-known design, it's nearly a replica of VKB's design. That said, VKB can also try to bring it to cheaper joysticks and serve the market just above things like T.16000M. If there was something like this for ~100 bucks when I started, I'd likely at least consider it (looking back, I'd definitely skip HotasX at least). I like my Gladiator and it will hopefully work fine for many more years.
What can go wrong with outsourcing to cheap foreign labour? It's not like your children need jobs, eh?
Interior almost 1:1 copy from Gladiator, the stick a copy of Gunfighter Modern.
No, the design is not owned by VKB. so i dont even know why this is a discussion
People did and still do, it is about the morality of copying their design and pricing it at half. They didn’t have a development cost, that’s why they can price it cheaper
@@dcs_one Imo if it's not patented it's ok to take inspiration from. Business is business, and this helps the customer.
@@dcs_one so I guess is not okay to buy bicycle that have the same design as bicycle that came before it? 😂
@@dcs_one The stick is a Russian design. Good on WinWing for shaking up the market by making the internals higher quality. I just ordered one direct from them for less than 100 pounds. Free shipping. Amazing
@@Niallistical It's not. VKB is based on the Russian name, but the company is from Shenzhen. Always was China-made. Yes, the overall looks/feel is based on a Russian stick, but that's where the similarity ends.
I am one of the people who don't care. You know what I do care about though? That i can get ursa minor on amazon.
That when i tried to order VKB originally on top of the cost, they wanted me go pay 80$ Shipping on top of the taxes.
Screw the moral argument, it kinda dies when you want me to increase my purchase by 1/3rd on an already expensive purchase.
i am among the same opinion.
*Screw the moral argument....*
Yeah, who cares it's produced under a police state regime that installs anti-suicide nets under factory windows. At least you saved enough to buy a few McDonalds combos.
🤡 Don't worry, you're such a good person.
@@x60mmx
Most of the stuff we use comes from China anyways. Stuff you buy has Chinese components. VKB gladiator was assembled in China. I had one and shipped from over there. How is that a good argument? I’m aware I’m resurrecting an old comment. I just baffles me lol
@@chasebergeron6003 I buy from my own country, followed by decent countries where-ever possible. Always possible? No, but it often is to at least some degree.
@@x60mmx you do know vkb sticks are made in China right? What is your argument here lol
3:35 This was my issue with VKB's claims of theft. The base gimbal design is half a century old, yet they were basically pretending they came up with it. While the final designs are very similar, there is also a limited amount of ways to package that gimbal mechanism into the space available inside a joystick base, so convergent design is a possibility.
Having said that, I think Winwing definitely 'took inspiration of' VKB's design, but VKB doesn't really have a leg to stand on since they copied the mechanism from someone else as well. They lost a lot of respect from me for trying to mobilize the fanbase by giving the impression the gimbal system was their invention.
Hello, since you have completely dismantled the WinWing, can you confirm that I can screw it to the floor? I don't see any holes, thank you
There are mounting holes if that is what you mean
@@dcs_one Thx
l've purchased this winwing based off all the reviews lm happy there is a company out there that has made it affordable for entry level players to own a high end quality product for a fraction of the price, the more competition in this niche is better for all of us the consumer we get good deals! 😁
The grips aren't really the point of contention (they are both vaguely soviet-inspired though the VKB one has some F-16 influences) it's the gimbal.
I know many people are new and probably didn't handle any stick before the market got reduced to the Thrustmaster-Saitek/Logitech duopoly, but while pincer designs aren't new it's basically unheard of for them to be interchangeable between sticks of different manifacturers, there isn't just the one way to do it (one example is my CH Products Fighterstick USB which also has a pincer design but looks different). Winwing could have easily just stolen the idea of adding clutches to the pincer design without copying the VKB iteration wholesale and yet here we are, maybe it's not illegal but it surely is bad form.
As a consumer, I have trouble outlining to you how LITTLE I care if one Chinese company copies the designs of another and offers them in a competitively priced product.
You have that right, just like others have the right to care
the video could end at WINWING's response and it would be just as informative as the whole thing
This comment could not be written and it would be just as informative
Hi. Question about Z axis. Is it hall sensor in Minor Ursa?
Yes it is
I purchased a pair of VKB NXTs when they were fresh on the market and immediately noticed stiction on the twist. It was easily solved by regreasing the mechanism, but when I notified VKB about it they chided me for "demanding too much" or something. That being said, they're worth the price and I'd still recommend them to anyone not willing to pay out for Virpil and willing to grease them. Besides, the Brits are my cousins. Review of the NXTs on my channel.
Ahaa, I prefer the VKB over WINWING due to better materials. I wish I could get my hands on them Virpils
@dcs_one You can't beat Virpil. Their gimbal is pure glory.
I recommend you to read the copyright law, so as not to say later that both manufacturers were inspired by each other's design. VKB did the first to create such a gimbal design, so they can claim all rights to this design even in court without any patent.
Gladiator NXT and their gimbal were developed and presented to the public in 2020. I don't understand what 10 years Winwing is talking about.
I didn’t think to apply copyright law. If VKB does have copyright to it then why wouldn’t they claim it more publicly?
@@dcs_one I think they don't want to do it for some reason. Or maybe they are preparing this case in this moment. I don't know. But if you are a good intellectual property lawyer, then you should contact VKB. This case is 90% winnable
The gimbal design wasn't invented by VKB, as you see in the video the design was already patented in 1977.
VKB used the design from the (nomore valid) patent and used it. WinWing also took the existing design and used it. So both copied something existing.
@@KernicDE Let's not distort the facts.
This patent describes the basic principle of the mechanics on which almost all joysticks are built today. I have no questions for Logitech or Thrustmaster, because they used this previously patented technology with their UNIQUE design.
We are talking about the fact that Winwing stole the DESIGN, and not the principle of the gimbal mechanics.
But if you even think that the design in the pictures in the patent and what VKB eventually did and then Winwing stole from it are the same thing, then you clearly need to go to an ophthalmologist.
For the sake of experiment, you can insert the gimbal from VKB Gladiator NXT into Wingwin and it will fit there like a native. Try inserting the mechanics from Gladiator NXT into the same Thrustmaster or Logitech, then good luck to you
@ The second picture of the patent looks really similar to the VKB and Winwing solution to me. Two axes connected by a rectangular frame. Yeah, patent is using potentiometers instead of hall effect sensors, but the overall design is the same.
The main idea here is the frame that separates X and Y axis - this is completely different to a ball design.
Ofc the build of the mechanics is rather similar and there is no doubt, that Winwing took inspiration from VKB. But VKB was inspired by other too, that is the way when a patent isn’t valid anymore. Like car motors are very similar, smartphones are very similar and ball pens too.
So yeah, the WinWing sells a freely usable mechanic for a lower price and most likely lower quality. The differences are slightly in mechanic, the stick itself is oriented on jets (like VKB ones) but for me the button layout is different enough to separate them.
If the mechanics would be some new and unique one, VKB could file a patent for it. Patents are there so protect you from others to get the invested money back. But they didn’t. Why?
See Lego, they had a patent, they used it, now there are many competitors. Why nobody complains about them? Because at some point competition is necessary to avoid monopoles.
Winwing obv stole the design and I'll avoid them for future purchases. VKB does such a good job with their designs, they were even able to release a DIY update to upgrade the original NXT to EVO. Very impressive product design.
Very pretty painting
Thanks :)
The idea of that gimbal is old. I've seen similar ideas in DIY space way before VKB made theirs. However, the design of the gimbal is 100% a copy. Some parts too I'd say that they are a copy not a "same idea". I don't know it's even worth internationally fighting a china based company over it tho. Sucks, but modern china's been like that for ages now.
As a customer standpoint, It's also good that there is a cheap good quality product that challenges VKB and Virpil to be more competitive. I do wish that they did that in more original way, but I'd say it's still a W for customers. not a clean w but a w nonetheless.
This definitely is a win for the consumers but it will likely change future products
This seems like an odd claim to me. The sticks externally are nothing alike (ie button placements) and while the gimbals are similar they're the same type of gimbal, that has been around for years no less, so that's what you'd expect and there's several differences in manufacturing that you can tell just from a glance.
While I agree about the sticks, the gimbals are almost identical to the point where it looks like they cane out of the same manufacturing plant
@@dcs_one They don't though, they're clearly completely different moulds. Their mounting screwholes lining up is the only suspicious part (assuming they did line up perfectly and you didn't have to misalign any screws or anything) but that might just be due to the form factor they're in being essentially identical since due to the design there's essentially only one place where you can put mounting screws.
This is just par for the course in regard to intellectual property rights in China. Patents aren't worth the paper they're printed on to Chinese Companies. So why would Winwing think twice about copying the gimbal almost exactly from VKB so much so that you could swap them between bases? And conversely, VKB was likely aware that another competitor could poach their design without consequence. It was probably not worth the cost, time and effort for VKB to apply for a new patent for the updated design only to have it ignored.
id never buy one but i still posted the winwing to discord, i trust vkb and their price is unbeatable at that quality level, but a virpil guy might say that about vkb everyone has a budget and a particular level of interest and i think if your kinda interested and have a limited budget winwing is better then a thrustmaster t16000m to start with
I have both sticks and they Quality of the VKB is not much better and there are way more buttons on the Ursa Minor.
So this is essentially Steve Jobs accusing Bill Gates of stealing the design for the computer mouse that he stole from Xerox
Why do we care if they 'stole' design?
thay produced awesome product with much lower price point.
if this is the results of stealing - pls steal more
Can you hot swap the parts between them (not including the springs and screws) ? If so then it is 100% a stolen design. While companies will come to the same form factor on overall operation, and will reuse small parts that are already made for obvious cost reasons, if we can swap the clutches, the clutch arms, the brackets etc, Even with them being "reorientated" then yes, Winwing just copied VKB and should be shunned.
For example, the 4 cycle internal piston design is a century plus old, but you will not be able to swap internals from various manufacturers unless they used each other's engines under contract (or are doing what winwing is alleged of doing like Iran's IKCO does with producing "not" Peugeots, or how you have 15 million different pistols that operate under the same striker fire system that Glock designed in the 80's but nothing can be swapped between them.
I want to get my hands on one to fuck around with and my NXT's to see if the parts are swappable. Because like I said, if so, the URSA should be on the nono list of sticks. Which if you watched this video....well you know the answer.
Vkb cannot say they own a Soviet fighter stick design, for one. Without a patent, they can’t claim the mechanism either. Being that they use the same design and mechanism, solutions will also be similar when engineering the product. They have different control types and button layouts where the design was less limited, in the base. So, they have wildly different bases, which is to be expected from separately designed products, not copied products.
In conclusion.
Get rekt VKB
so it's like a 6 year old crying that you "cheated" when you did something completely fair game... yeah, ok...
Sort of
Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ -135$ and WINWING URSA MINOR Fighter Joystick R -132$ on Amazon. Where is the comfortable price for entry-level??? so if the price is the same what is the point of getting Wingwing which is low quality, The only reason is WINWING has more buttons don't he side
Again, these variants are not the ones I was comparing. I compared the premium version of the gladiator nxt. This I would say is the top end of budget flight sticks before mid range ones. T16000 on sale is priced entry level
@dcs_one ok the premium is 175 and this 135 its still not even close base on quality and durability for entry-level. It's only 40$ differences and a specially if you can get not premium for same price as WINWWING. why you need premium for entry level?
The WinWing is not low quality. The buttons feel the same on both sticks. The base is a little better on the VKB and the grip feels more grippy, but so far as build quality goes they are almost similar. VKB feels more robust and you get more options. However there is nothing it does that the WinWIng cannot do. The software for WinWing is terrible, but functional
Very noice
winwing is good, and VKB doesnt own the design.. anyone can use it and even improve it.
Stole? No. Copied/took inspiration from? Yeah probably.
Our conclusions as well
China W
Yeah it’s not a big deal at all and everyone seems to be virtue signaling about integrity as if this is a 7th grade science fair and not multinational private corporations.
Winwing is more likely yet another state-owned chinese company that conforms with whatever agenda the chinese state has
There ate very mixed feelings about this from the general community
China is that cloner
That is the China way
Cutting every 3 seconds on a review type channel is not a good idea.
I think that was not the case for most of the video🤔
The intro had more cuts for teasing purposes
Cheaper one wins.
Fair
Not patented, you got no claim!
That said, the current price difference is $25...!
I'd go with the higher quality materials VKB instead.
VKB feels much nicer