PineBook Pro: An Informal Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- Today, we have a look at my new daily driver, the PineBook Pro from Pine64.
Buy a PineBook Pro from the Pine Store here: pine64.com/pro...
Everything else you're looking for is here: notnapoleon.net
Thank you everyone for the support! I've read through the comments and just wanna mention a few things I forgot to mention in the video:
1. The PineBook Pro comes with 64GB of eMMC storage, but you can also boot from an SD card, or you can buy an NVME adapter to install an SSD. I've ordered the NVME adapter (which will take some time to arrive), and when I've received it, I'll be comparing its performance against the default eMMC boot option.
2. You can download Armbian PineBook Pro images that come with a GUI (so I won't be making a TARDIS-like script). However, you have to scroll down a bit so I didn't realise it was available: www.armbian.com/pinebook-pro/.
3. There is a script to update the keyboard and trackpad. So if you're having issues with the trackpad, I would suggest following the instructions on this github repo: github.com/jackhumbert/pinebook-pro-keyboard-updater.
4. Some people have mentioned the lack of a trackpoint similar to what you can find on a ThinkPad. I certainly agree, but didn't mention this as a criticism of the laptop because most laptops don't have one.
5. I incorrectly referred to the RK3399 as the CPU, it's actually the SoC, which contains the two CPUs (a Quad Core Cortex-A53 and a Dual Core Cortex-A72) and the GPU. Thank you to the person who mentioned this! They also mentioned that it can only take 4GB of RAM because it has a 32-bit address bus (despite having a 64-bit CPU).
Can it play DOOM like a baby monitor?
i got a 2tb nvme for mine, wanted to install slackware, too much wtf in the instructions, i've set it aside for now.
@@megatronskneecap kind of (6:25)
We need DOOM in 4K on it@@gnulectures
2:51 Speaking of x86 to ARM compatibility, Flatpak on linux has an optional dependency on qemu-user-static, which allows Flatpak to take advantage of architecture emulation via qemu directly, so most proprietary programs and, in general, x86 programs on ARM linux will run just fine via flatpak so long as qemu-user-static is installed
The main issue is gaming, which may or may not have poor performance, games are a bit more hit or miss on ARM, but anything on the flathub store will run with little to no issue on ARM assuming you set it up correctly
I should also mention that the architecture emulation on Flatpak is done automatically assuming the package is installed, its really amazing honestly lol, big W for flatpak
That sounds awesome! I didn't know about that.
@@gnulectures Yeah it's really great, its one of the many reasons i believe we should keep pushing for flatpak as the default package format for linux distros (in terms of graphical apps), snap to my knowledge lacks this feature (among the many other issues with snap which i could spend all day on)
Cross-distro package formats have a ton of usecases and flatpak is IMO the best one and this is just one of the reasons, being able to run the same linux apps regardless of architecture is a crazy feature
@@vendetta.02Emulation via qemu? Wow imagine how slow that is. Still pretty cool tho but maybe they should add box 86/64 option as the compatibility layer to run x86 app instead.
@@user-28qhfk65 Qemu is genuinely one of the fastest virtualization options on Linux, though, if not the fastest. Besides, if accuracy is more important than pure performance, qemu is just a good choice.
@@sobieckil07 Maybe you're right, but qemu is just an emulator at the end of the day. Box86/64 is basically a translation layer between arm and x86, kind of like wine but it translates the x86 architecture into arm64 readable code (I guess lol).
I can see why qemu is better for office/everyday app because its more reliable + more support than box86 developed by a few developer.
I'd love to see a refresh of the laptop with an rk3588 or something similar.
Me too! Pine64...make the PineBook Max a thing! 🙏
I’d pay $300 to have a couple little things on there extra.. my big one would be a great battery. Both quality and size. That’s a huge one anymore regardless of how you use a laptop
Love this. I bet in 5-10 years there will be a whole line of RISC-based laptops at different price points in most computer stores.
I bought the original Pinebook and it has been the worst laptop purchase I’ve made. Originally, it was mostly OK. It released without proper GPU acceleration (including 2D), but over time it became less and less supported, to the point where the official OS distribution would boot to a black screen because the hardware got a revision with a 1080p display, but the original was 720p (or 768, I don’t recall).
I figure out workarounds but it was a losing battle.
A real shame, because it was otherwise a really cheap laptop that just happened to have a keyboard that was nice to type on, could run Linux and was perfect for learning Python, Rust and general web dev.
Drives me crazy in this day and age nobody but Apple and Microsoft Surface can provide a decent trackpad for a laptop.
I guess the alternative is to wait another 5 years until M1 macbook airs become ~$150, and run asahi on them
This is cool, but I'm waiting for an affordable RISC-V laptop, that will be amazing to see when it actually gets here.
Just started watching your video and I really appreciate your high quality audio. Subscribed immediately.
For $200 to run Mint or Lubuntu this thing is sweet. Big perks.. price and newer hardware. I use Linux for a completely different set of things.
Awesome video. I typed a 3 paragraph comment and Android just ate it. I'm going to buy one thanks to you and your legit review. Been using Linux for over a decade so I am not scared of a custom Debian install lol. Also I have had a pinecil soldering iron from pine64 and it is awesome. They seem to have nice quality and cheap prices- and they are very open source friendly.
First time I saw your channel and I subscribed.
Nice review! Especially from someone else in the UK, how was customs?
Do note that the RK3399 is the SoC, not the CPU (which is inside the SoC along with the Mali GPU and some other bits). There are two CPUs, a quad core Cortex-A53 and a dual core Cortex-A72.
About the spookiness, there are some closed proprietary blobs needed at startup. At least the trusted firmware is open though.
The Pinebook is limited to 4GB of ram because that is the maximum the RK3399 can do, due to being stuck with a 32bit address bus despite the CPUs being 64bit. If you look at the Quartz64 you’ll see it has a RK3566 instead and that's why it can take the larger amounts of RAM.
Thank you for mentioning this! I've added this information to the pinned comment as it's quite important.
And yes, I did have to pay an import tax (it was around £40-50, but I don't remember the exact amount as I deleted the email).
What about BSD distros aka real Unix? Linux is cute for beginners and all but I’d like a laptop that can run BSD like a pro.
Been wanting to get into ARM one of these days and while I love my T480 it does get cumbersome. I mostly just use my laptops to write and take notes on anyways, so this is pretty informative.
Also glad you're a fellow Oneshot enjoyer :)
In my experience, both the trackpad and the speaker's volume issues are fixable. For the trackpad you have to update the firmware, and for the volume you have to adjust in alsamixer.
I appreacite your honest review.
I was wondering about an ARM laptop because I want something like the Macbook M1 experience, with longer battery life with a good ARM CPU speed. I thought this could be a good choice, but the issues you have with your laptop matches the experience that I have with another brand that does laptops focused on Linux users.
Thank you man. I think ARM laptops in general still need some work and the PineBook Pro definitely has some problems, but I appreciate how honest Pine64 are with their products, they know their products aren't for everyone and make it clear who should and shouldn't buy them.
In my opinion, the Apple is the only company doing a good job with ARM on non-servers computers. Unfortunately, they are too greedy. The RISC-V is coming but, is far away from ready for competition. The hardware companies are guilty of it, because all of them wants a M1 to call it theirs but, they're too much incompetent and/or coward to assume risks at the moment to do it
ngl, since I'm pretty casual on laptop use, I'd probably pick one of these up, wouldn't I have a couple of used ThinkPads.
Love the idea behind it and given Frameworks are so expensive, this low price tag sounds neat.
I really hope they'll upgrade it with at least 8 GB of RAM. Even then, my current daily driver is equipped with 16 GB of RAM.
did you install the new firmware for the trackpad/keyboard? its a pretty sketchy process but it improves the trackpad significantly from my experience.
Id say my biggest complaint is the power budget, only 15w of charging, with my nvme ssd installed I cant run 100% brightnees on the screen because it will use to much power and lock up.
Besides that I really like it as a little pocket development laptop, my other laptop is quite large and unwieldy, this one is easy to take along.
VSCode is usable but a bit rough so I used it as an excuse to learn neovim.
When using nvme, does that effect the battery a lot?
Another question, what is the different in performance when using nvme, micoSD or MMC?
I did, it was definitely better but not as smooth as I would've liked it. I may just have high standards.
And I definitely agree with the power budget, I have a 65W USB-C laptop charger, but because the USB-C port is limited to 2.5 Amps, I can't use all that power so it's not any better than just using my phone charger.
I read about this too but the consequences of making a mistake are scary to make the upgrade LOL
@@sallyhajdunno about the battery drain as I rarely use the PBP on battery power (if I need a mobile computer when out of the house it’s my smartphone that I take) but NVME is much faster than the eMMC storage on the PBP
@@sallyhaj For me its not had a significant impact on the battery life. But I kinda put an nvme in there when i got it. Didnt get to experience it with EMMC much.
I've not gotten it to boot from an microSD either. My journey to getting it to boot off of the nvme was quite a wild ride. Installed towboot to boot from usb. installed my image on the nvme, then installed u-boot with priority set to nvme to decrease the boot time compared to towboot.
Does your audio on your PBP make a “pop” sound when booting? Mine does regardless of the OS.
It does, but it's very faint, and I wasn't even aware of the sound before you wrote the comment and I tested it.
@@gnulectures mine is loud… I think your PBP is very quiet, is your volume up?
Is hardware video acceleration working under Armbian? I installed Arch Linux ARM on my OP1/RK3399 based Samsung Chromebook Plus, where I had no luck with video acceleration under MPV with FFmpeg. I’ll switch to Armbian if it supports video acceleration with FFmpeg and MPV.
Not sure why I would choose this over a used/refurbished Thinkpad T480 for around the same price.
Where are you finding it for that price?
@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488 Anywhere... I was just checking prices on Backmarket and ebay earlier today, and a refurbished T480 can be had for an average of $250. Prices can range from $200-$300, depending on specs and condition. If it has an i7 and is spec'd out, it can cost a little over $300, but you can get an i5 with 16GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD for around $250 all day long.
Battery life maybe.
The Hasbulla meme is gold 😂 Thanks for the review!
i just wish we could get the smaller chassis with the faster chip.
thelema - ofdream as a test song is so based
Yeah, it's such a nice tune! RIP Øfdream 🙏
I really wanted this, but after using Pine64's Rock64's SBC and the issues I had with running an OS in a production-ready state (basically it always ended up corrupting the file system, most "supported" distros didn't run, etc), I decided against it. I used a RPi Zero W for the project and it worked first time out. Still going strong. I'm not buying Pine64 anymore, the software is too shabby.
Thanks I will stick to x86 chip based machines. There is no point begging for pain.
BTW Pine sells an NVME adapter for the PBP, I installed Armbian on NVME and it is super fast.
Like you, I wish there was more RAM on the PBP… I heard on /g/ that there will be a logic board upgrade for the PBP where one can swap it out to a Rockchip RK3566 logic board with 8 GB RAM. However I wouldn’t hold one’s breath.
I should've mentioned the boot options in the video. I ordered the NVME adapter a few days ago, but it probably won't arrive for about a week. I told someone else I would talk about what it's like to use an M.2 drive with the PBP.
I'm a bit sceptical as to whether an RK3566 board will come out, but we can pray haha
@@gnulectures You made a great video! I really don’t like Pine as company after my experiences with them… the PBP and the Pinecil are okay but the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro (especially the latter!) are a joke. Pine’s business model to make hardware and then get engineers/developers to make software for the devices, for free. In fact the engineers/devs have to pay for the hardware for the “privilege” of making the software. Everyone else is a paying beta tester. The PinePhone left a really bad taste in my mouth as you can see LOL
My laptop hinge just broke (thanks HP...), so I will need a new laptop for project demos and notes. If the upcoming Snapdragon X disappoints, I'll probably go for this one, since I don't feel like spending money on yet another x86 laptop.
I think I got that chipset in my handheld video console.
Plays games good tho...
As always great content
Thank you!
I want to see riscv cpu and 16gb and I would buy one right away.
It comes with freakin' Manjaro? God, can we just make endeavourOS the default "just werks" Arch distro? Like seriously I have no idea why that distro is still so popular.
Cool laptop review!
Can gou you try postmarket os with gnome desktop
its a pity they don't increase the ram to 8gb.
395.00 € inc. VAT No way! N100 Piccolo 8" for 350€
If you want a great Linux ARM laptop, you should probably get a MacBook. Dual Booting my work MacBook Pro has been a pretty great experience so far.
The cheapest Apple Silicon MacBook in the UK is £1,149 (around $1400 USD). I'm aware that the hardware is very powerful and power-efficient, but I do all my intensive work on my desktop anyway, so I can't rationalise spending over a grand on a laptop just for web browsing and word processing.
@@gnulectures You can buy an Apple certified refurbished M1 Air for £850. The cheapest non-refurbished one is £999. Obviously this is still a lot more than $219.
What kind of storage for the system are you using, micoSD, MMC or Nvme?
Atm I'm using microSD as I didn't wanna overwrite the Manjaro install, but I ordered Pine64's NVME adapter a few days ago.
It'll take a while to arrive, but when it does, I'll be sure to make a video comparing it to the SD card and eMMC performance.
@@gnulectures I am wandering how pbp's battery can handle with nvme, and what is the read/write speed difference between different storages.
I will be waiting for your upcoming video.
Thank you.
@@gnulecturesThe nvme will use more power. And since it technically runs only from battery, even while charging, it'll turn into pretty much a stationary device bc of the quick battery drain. I think the onboard emmc is the best performance-to-power ratio.
can you put windows on it as windows run on arm now
Yes, but not Windows 10/11 if my memory's good
please calrify the battery life more, and i think its perfect for coding.
Nice Review
Thank you!
What is the battery duration?
It's 10,000 mAh and arm so it's probably gonna be like amazing lol though i honestly wonder too now
@@oclasos Jajajaja
When you get the result could you share it?
I'd probably say around 8 hours, but it will depend on things like the volume, brightness, and applications you're running.
Sadly I don't have the resources to accurately measure it and give an exact number, but in my case, I can comfortably use it all day for things like web browsing, email, and writing scripts without worrying about running out.
@@gnulecturesI heard that, the post covid pandemic battery capacity is only 9600, is that true?
If you didn’t a GUI with Armbian you downloaded the wrong file and that is easily done as the download page is not intuitive
I downloaded it from the Pine64 wiki, which directed me to this page: www.armbian.com/pinebook-pro/
I didn't notice it was available with DEs as you have to scroll down a wee bit. Thanks for letting me know!
@@gnulectures yeah I found out the hard way too LOL
This was a really cool laptop and video but an extremely sketchy buying experience... I just wanted to rant for a little bit and get someones thoughts - People are saying Apple will move to RISC-V in the future but I don't think it's true as RISC-V is open source and the CPU's could easily be cracked which Apple wouldn't like compared to ARM imo.
That’s not what it means: the RISC-V *ISA* is open source. As in, it’s not owned by a private body and licensed. You, me, Apple, Cathedral City Cheese, any of us are free to take that instruction set, modify to it any extent seen fit, and produce closed source CPUs that run that modified ISA and it’d be perfectly legal.
Just because the architecture is open source doesn’t mean you have to adhere to it, can’t modify it nor have to make public any physical implementation you create with it.
I've stop when Manjaro came up. It's an awful distro!
Haha, not a big fan of it myself
I'll never understand why these Linux centric laptops aren't built with trackpoints and buttons like a Thinkpad. Even if I was seriously considering a Pinebook, I would never buy one because of that lack.
I guess because they're not common apart from on business laptops like ThinkPads and Dell Latitudes. It's a shame though because I find trackpoints to be very useful.
I feel like this laptop it's just a way if supporting pine64 and that's it. It's not worth the price. Better off buying a Chromebook and reflash a Linux distro.
As someone who has owned many IBM and Lenovo ThinkPads I don’t get the allure of the track point, I always preferred a mouse or trackpad over the track point
@@gavril3698Well no shit? Buying from a small company using completely open software is obviously going to be more expensive than buying from one of the biggest data-sucking corporations in the world mass-producing their own laptops.
welcome to the Sipeed lichee console 4A, a RISC-V mini laptop with a red trackpoint and no trackpad
rock64 released and they just let it sit there. The did a con job getting me to buy it instead of a pi3b. Fuck Rock64 they did nothin to develop software for that board and I wasted so much time and had so many bad experiences I stopped playing with sbcs for YEARS. So fuck this thing too.
"Pro" laptop with only 4GB RAM is malicious
It's a nice toy for a decent price if you live where they deliver. Cos I don't and I tried to ship one through a third party mailing company, but they wrote me back a week later telling they can't deliver it to some warehouse, only personally and when I requested a refund they presented themselves with 25$ of my money for basically telling me to go f myself.
Sorry to hear that, it's highly unprofessional for them to not issue a full refund...it's not like you've actually received the product.
Waste of money
237 Hmm I'm not 100% sure on that
That was a major error on my end because I just assumed "oh it doesn't have Intel ME or AMD PSP so it's all good". Thanks for bringing this up!
@@gnulectures Its why RISC-V is so important.