Hey @thelinuxcast I work with Pine64 in a volunteer capacity and have been involved with them for a few years. If you'd like we can setup a call to chat about the pinephone ecosystem.
As someone who has one of the original pinephones I'm sad to hear this. I bought one of the community edetions back when they were doing those to support development. I've tried various distros on it since and it's been lack luster to say the least. I knew going in that the original model was more of a proof of concept and was low speced to to start with. I was hoping the Pro model would change that, but it seems not.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I've had the Pinephone for a few years now. I've primarily used it as a battery powered portable SBC and I love that potato, but I knew the specs were low to begin with, but it's fun to see it running Kubernetes jobs as part of a local K3S cluster. What really surprises me is that the Pinephone Pro hardware should be /fine/. I've run desktop Linux on the RockPro64 without many issues (other than 4Gb of RAM being a bit on the low side.) The Pinephone Pro hardware is, IIRC, pretty similar to the RockPro64. At this point, it's not top of the line, but it should be sufficient to run mobile Linux with acceptable performance. Seems odd, but I haven't really looked into firsthand accounts of Pinephone Pro usage. Definitely disappointing to hear.
@@jasongalloway4645 I had one of the community edition PinePhones some years ago more out of curiosity than anything but eventually sold it since I hadn't used it much. The PinePhone is interesting in concept but the software is still massively undercooked. At this rate I don't see the phone becoming more than an interesting curiosity rather than something I'd seriously want to use as a phone.
@@softwarelivre2389 the performance running linux really isnt the issue. It’s performance as a phone is the problem. At this point, i dont see a time coming that it will ever be a daily driver and replace my regular phone. It is just not usable for its intended purpose. Frankly, even if it were to become usable in the near future, its lifespan would be terribly limited by the fact that its using very old cellular tech. Jmho. Ymmv.
In the world of youtube apology videos this one is the best. At the start of the video, without even knowing what you are apologizing for, i accept your apology. Side note. The only time i have had a kernel panic in linux was because of a hardware issue.
Paid $100CAD for my Pixel 3aXL running Ubuntu Touch, its been my main devices for 2 years now. Never made sense for me to get a native device when regular phones can run linux mobile. Its like buying a laptop designed for linux vs buying one off the shelf. The linux built one will prob be more expensive and have less good hardware. Its sad but true.
I would only buy a Framework laptop, and Fairphone with the removable battery and no glue best repairability. Framework is even working on an open-source UEFI, which is awesome to see.
Dude, when I was first into computing, the idea of having pocket computers would be beyond awesome. It obviously ended up not the case, but that's not really because of the pocket computer, more so on how the system got involved into all this. People need to value their privacy, it's a basic element of freedom, without it, you are no longer free. So no matter the goodies, privacy and in turn, freedom, are far more important. All of those phones suck, people need to get rid of them.
I use an OG Pinephone with Mobian/KDE Plasma as a "daily" driver. I loaded Mobian with too much difficulty--I can claim to not be a command line king/hardcore coder. It all depends on what you want to do with it. Is it slow? Yes. Does it suck in terms of battery life. Yes. Is it buggy and unpolished? Yes. Would I recommend it to someone who depends on their phone being a replacement for their computer--NO. I use a phone as a...phone, plus a few other things (texts, mainly). In that, the Pinephone is--adequate--and that is enough. What am I missing? Well, google or the fruit company tracking me. Not being a walking receptacle for advertising with every kilobyte of my existence being sold to the highest bidder. I can turn off a whole host of systems with a hardware kill-switch. It's a choice. Some people are going back to 'dumb" phones...but they may discover they're not as dumb as they think. Most of all, it's about control. The path of most resistance is what I choose.
Same here exept it's Mobian/Phosh, I would prefer KDE but always had problem with calls. I tried Manjaro, Alpine, Suse and some others with little or no success so I stick to Mobian. I wouldn't recommend it but I love to have total control on it. My first smartphone was a Fairphone 2 and I was frustrated with android or unbuntu touch.
I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of flashiness and features for freedom on mobile; but it's got to be able to make calls and send text messages, do it well, and not be laggy. And the battery better last at least 12 hours if I'm using it lightly.
NOBODY IS USING TEXT MESSAGES ANYMORE! Use Email alkready even mobile. Even classic phone calls are dying. More and more people are using IP telephony like MS Teams, Discord, Whatsapp, Teamspeak etc. more often.
the hardware ain't that great, that's why i put down the pinefone and went back to rooting android. maybe in another 5-7 years it'll be ready for a daily drive
I have a PinePhone Pro (and many other Mobile Linux devices) and... I agree that it is not very good. In a way, the slower original, AllWinner A64 powered PinePhone is a better device, as it is more stable. I have had the best results with postmarketOS and DanctNIX (Arch Linux ARM for the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro) with Phosh. If someone wants to get into Mobile Linux, I recommend you to try postmarketOS on a OnePlus 6 or Xiaomi Poco F1 - or an original PinePhone. If you have lots of money: I like my Librem 5 very much, but to just get an idea, it's likely too expensive.
The thing is the Pinephone Pro, being a newer and pricier device, has had way less development time from the community, so it's expected that it will lag behind when compared to the OG Pinephone. Hope it will still continue to improve, even if slowly...
@@mrguiltyfool I am sorry, I have mostly played with DanctNIX and postmarketOS on the PPP and can't answer this really, as I have only booted Ubuntu Touch a few times months (or is it years by now?) ago. I keep hearing good things about SailfishOS on PP/PPP so that may also be worth a look. If you don't have a PinePhone Pro, get a Pixel 3a (not 3!) instead, it has great Ubuntu Touch and Droidian support, and mainline support (in Mobian/postmarketOS) is also somewhat decent and getting better.
You should give postmarketOS a try, the wiki seems to give the impression that they have the installation process and development working fairly well. I trust them overall for Linux mobile the most even over the ubuntu touch crew.
No! To many dumb niche distros should not be mentioned and push. Its a waste of time even developing them for the time beeing. Support a major distro first like Arch and make the key software usable. Other distros will follow when the basic is running like a charm. The devs should focus on one thing first!
@@gintokisakata7490 PostmarketOS isn't really a niche distro, not in the "Linux Mobile" space at least, they've helped set up a lot of the groundwork that distros like Mobian were able to then pick up.
I agree with you, the Pine phone is crap. I had the original Pine phone which lasted a few days after the warranty expired. The next time I have that much money to throw out. I’ll go to the races and bet on a 3 legged horse.
I have the original pinephone and the phosh interface was usable, really liked sxmo too, but the device was always getting stuck in a loop coming out of sleep and overheating in my pocket.
Thank you for your honest clarification on the Pinephone. I was myself that close to get the cheaper one, but the moment I've added it to the cart - the price rose by $50 or $70, something like that, for "delivery", which didn't seemed fair to me, given they ship it from a European country to another one, and shipping shouldn't be that expensive. That was the deal-breaker for me and I just gave up. I don't like, when a company gives you one price on the shelf and a different one at checkout. Now, after watching your video I'm just glad I gave up on buying it. However, I'm still very enthusiastic about having a Linux mobile, so I'm paying attention, whenever something interesting will show up.
To answer the question of developing for it, cross-compiling. Compile on main system then SSH into the phone and use SCP to move things around. Test things on the phone while trying to keep the phone resource utilization as low as possible to keep thermal throttling from happening.
I really have been disappointed with the Pine phone. I really want this device but with it being a "founders" edition which after reading sounds like a "good luck" I can't justify it. I love the hard disconnects and the keyboard case with the extra battery. But the extra battery is mute because it won't hold a charge for longer than a few hours. I even read you might not get calls or text sometimes and need to trouble shoot that. I check back in every 6-12 months and see no progress on Pine phones end. I got a Google Pixel 7 pro instead a few years back and swapped to a different OS. I hope Pine phone finally makes a finished product that I can put into that cool keyboard case but its looking like that won't happen.
Yeah, I feel you! I have the Pinephone not pro, and back then, it was NOT marketed as a developer device (only the braveheart edition had been). So I bought it, thinking that I would actually been using it as a phone. But it was such a colossal disappointment, regardless of which distro I used. So it quickly became a paperweight. P.S.: The fastest distro on the pinephone in my experience is PostMarketOS. P.P.S.: Of course there are other devices capable of running mobile Linux, however, they don't run it natively, they run it on top of Halium. That's why they don't have to bother about the hardware, as distros running on the pinephone have to. So the comparison isn't entirely fair.
Have they even updated the specs on this phone or is it a dead project? Could had sworn this phone came out 2-3 years ago. They need to release a newer improved version if that’s the case.
Really, it would just be cool to have that phone as a terminal, w bt and nmcli, a few other things. Just a shell w connectivity, like termux and ssh. It would be handy just like that. All cli tools, maybe nushell.
More and more, as an owner of several pine devices including a Pinephone pro, i am coming to the conclusion thats its just not worth it. The fact is that pine is a hardware company and the software is done by the community. But, almost every time, the hardware comes with serious deficiencies that make the community lose interest relatively quickly and dev work gets slower and slower, with the device never really reaching its intended potential. To be sure, i love the idea of pine64, but i’ll be looking for another similar source. I just dont want to part with anymore money in their direction, since there are so many almost insurmountable mistakes made in the hardware side. Maybe the hw issues will be resolved in the next prod run. But, if this is a simple board trace error, my device has now cost twice as much, or if they actually change a chip, much of the dev effort already produced is useless. Jmho.
I got a pine book pro a few years ago and it was total garbage. The screen came deatached, it was extremely slow and buggy, and the soldering seemed to be made by me, which is NOT a compliment. And it was 400€, aka 500$ at the time.
The PinePhone looks interesting--especially with the physical switches to turn off connectivity--but it's clearly not ready for regular use. I'll stick to CalyxOS on a Pixel for now.
I've heard that degoogled Androids work better on Pixels, but it's really ironic that in order to free yourself from Google you first need to buy a (not cheap) device from them
@pmmeurcatnpics So you are not well informed. I have a Galaxy A52 that is compatible with LineageOS, an Android distro, which doesn't come with Googled by default. You can find a lot of good phone models you can change ROM.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 well I did use a lot of custom ROMs on a mid-range Xiaomi back in the days, so I do now that you don't necessarily need a Pixel for that. It's just that I've recently read an article about GrapheneOS, saw that it's for Pixels only, and assumed that this is a common thing now. But it may very well be that this is exclusive to GrapheneOS
Hmm, does postmarketOS not work well? I heard that there was an update to gnome-mobile that seems rather interesting. Actually I’m on the fence to get a device for postmarket because of it.
Why would you want to do development on such a small device? I suppose it always depends on the use case, but I have always preferred doing things on a laptop compared to a phone, and you can just use a bluetooth headset of whatever type you prefer to do phone calls and use something like google voice to make phone calls and use a laptop that has cellular connectivity even if it doesn't officially support phone calls.
As long as they will try emulating/making Linux on phone, they will fail miserably. Once they start making a Linux Phone, their project will take off. Linux on phone is expecting your phone to behave like Linux "Computer" on a smaller device that requires instantaneous response, which is a recipe for disaster. A linux phone is basically a phone which happens to run on Linux. It is fundamentally different than the former. Phone is used in a dynamic environment. Making a call, doing a transaction, sending messages, Picking an interesting picture or video of potential accident etc. What linux phone project usually miss is a non-technical regular average joe.
Pinephone as well as other "open source phones" are what wouldnt even qualify as a demonstrator prototype unit for normal manufacturers. They're a joke. All two of them 😅 Literally pre-2015 tech sold for high prices because "fReEdOm". If you want to be Google free buy a Pixel, Xiaomi or anything with an unlockable bootloader and put a custom rom like eOS on. You end up 3-4 times the processing power, much better compatibility, better cams, everything better for the same or lower price.
@@Spicysauced I guess you aren't aware that Google (years ago) started neglecting the open source side of Android and any good/useful OS feature is added only as closed source for their pixels, that's without talking about the lock-downs instead of the freedom Android is known for. The direction Android going is to isn't bright at all. And yes, Linux is needed, "competition" is always good for us consumers.
It's funny though I've been using Android since maybe 2009 and was an extremely early adapter, I remembered having Windows Mobile and a HTC Touch Pro so I was doing the Android2SD dual boot for the longest time, then I got an HTC HD2 and MAGLDR and got more into Androind, my first Windows Mobile 6 device was a PPC6800 the HTC Mogul, I got it cause I had a Nokia 6500 and the screen cracked on me, so I bought a Samsung Messenger and the screen again cracked in my pocket, so I went down into the smartphone pocketpc rabbit hole then with the Mogul. First actual Android was a Dell Streak Mini. But for me I've had nothing but luck with the Pinephone Pro I even installed Mobian, updated it to the latest then removed a lot of Phosh stuff and terminally installed Plasma because it just looks so much better, I prefer Mobian because it's the most stable with everything working, but yes Pinephone/Mobile Linux per-say is still very limited.
In their defense, other phone companies get part of their revenue on bundling a bunch of apps into their devices, which is not an option for Pine64. Other factor is they don't yet have economy of scale. Still overpriced tho.
It is impossible to make serious calls with the Pinephone (Pro). The voice quality for the other person is absolutely unusable, and has been for years. Somehow I have the feeling that nothing has been done about it for years. This is absolute basic functionality, regardless of the Linux distribution. The fact that nothing has been done about it all these years and with the knowledge that the Pinephone and the Pinephone Pro have the same modem leads to the assumption that the Pinephone (Pro) has a design defect that leads to poor audio performance that cannot be corrected by software. I can ignore all the other problems but I would like to be able to make phone calls.
I had a better experience with droidian on pixel 3a or oneplus 6T than those crappy pinephone. If they made it $1000 and made it high end, i would buy another one.
ive been burned by linux pc hardware. i suspect you have to buy a mainstream os on a prebuilt to get clean hardware then erase it if desired. sorta like paying a tax.
I am so waiting for a foldable UMPC with Linux (pls Arch) for years now! Its so obvious to develop something like that. Why is nobody doing it but bringing the hundredth bulky laptop? I dont understand this … The future is already here, so please wake up already, dear Linux community!
Having owned the pro model it waa junk out of the boz. Hardly worked. Reflashed the os still was flakey. librem 5 is better but at $1k not worth it. i think an os needs to be like Linuz install it on most modern hardware w driber support
there's an entirely different way to build such a device that might work far better, but it'd be both more bulky and sleeker, also more likely to be compatible with everything.
This video was really funny. But true. I have a librem5 and i think its much the same. Barely useable to do anything. My n900 linux phone from 10+ years ago was better at everything.
You are wrong. This device is as snappy as an android phone can be. And the battery actually lasts decent time. How do i know this? I own the phone and i tried it. With android. Yep. You read it right. On official wiki you can find hardware test suite for ppp, it runs off of sd card, and ir as fast as any android smartphone. For now it runs best on arch phosh. Though OS needs polishing. But i think you could apologise once more, and at least try to install that android build for yourself before making these ignorant claims.
@@TuxTuxedo-oc9kg I think you missed the point on the video. The commentator is presuming it is impossible to use PinePhone for any reason. And it is, PinePhone is horrible for anything, I have one.
600 euros for 3000mah battery, IPS 720p processor whose on definitely not 8nm as RK3588 would be, which is also bs, since china wasn't even close to 14nm process node. RK3399S which pinephone pro uses probably also 22nm for 2020 which is straight up trash given it probably has a gate and pitch of above +60nm, which for this year's standard is a worthless cpu.4GB of ram and oh yeah plastic frame. 600euros like are you kidding me, they're giving us 2015 speca. I'd give 100 euros for this, given this is a linux phone, okay 300 euros would be fine too, max 350, 600 euros, That's a joke.. That's my take on this phone, I wish they added to the list of supported devices, poco phones from Xiaomi, I'd definitely would use.
Man, Matt, are you listening to Alexandre Oliva's Q&A in the saturn room at libera right now? I hope so. And the great talk prior. Right up your peeve, and upstream solution space addressed. Methinks you'll like it like having a big dump and sigh of relief. It might even refocus and re-enliven thelinuxcast imbued with new passion for principles and purpose. Too much hype? Well, it's poignant to me anyways. Make of it what you will.
@@tibbydudeza yes, and I run the Zen kernel but it is still Linux like the Android kernel is. But that is not the point. If you call Android Linux just Android, may as well call GNU Linux just GNU.
@@softwarelivre2389 I like that clearer naming. I also like to call the OS just Livre Software like your user name, because despite GNU Linux being the two major pieces, there are a lot of other essential smaller pieces that forms the OS.
@@GambuSaur while I agree with your point, GNU/Linux systems are not the only FOSS systems out there, it is just the biggest one. Other free and open source systems include ReactOS, RedoxOS and the BSDs, for example. Maybe GNU is not the correct term to refer to all the ecosystem, but they were the ones that started the GNU/Linux ecosystem we use today, with the creation of GNU Coreutils, GNU's Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) and GNU Network Object Model Environment (GNOME) in the 90s.
Follow me on Mastodon! fosstodon.org/@thelinuxcast
Hey @thelinuxcast I work with Pine64 in a volunteer capacity and have been involved with them for a few years. If you'd like we can setup a call to chat about the pinephone ecosystem.
I do not think an apology is in order. As you discover new facts you update your opinion. This is indicative of a wonderful person.
I think it's good to make an apology since before blaming plasma matt could've done some more fact finding instead ahead of making a video
This is both informative and disappointing.
As someone who has one of the original pinephones I'm sad to hear this. I bought one of the community edetions back when they were doing those to support development. I've tried various distros on it since and it's been lack luster to say the least. I knew going in that the original model was more of a proof of concept and was low speced to to start with. I was hoping the Pro model would change that, but it seems not.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I've had the Pinephone for a few years now. I've primarily used it as a battery powered portable SBC and I love that potato, but I knew the specs were low to begin with, but it's fun to see it running Kubernetes jobs as part of a local K3S cluster.
What really surprises me is that the Pinephone Pro hardware should be /fine/. I've run desktop Linux on the RockPro64 without many issues (other than 4Gb of RAM being a bit on the low side.) The Pinephone Pro hardware is, IIRC, pretty similar to the RockPro64. At this point, it's not top of the line, but it should be sufficient to run mobile Linux with acceptable performance. Seems odd, but I haven't really looked into firsthand accounts of Pinephone Pro usage. Definitely disappointing to hear.
@@losinggeneration the performance is not bad, but it seems Matt got some bugged versions. Mobian, in theory, should work fine with Phosh.
@@jasongalloway4645 I had one of the community edition PinePhones some years ago more out of curiosity than anything but eventually sold it since I hadn't used it much. The PinePhone is interesting in concept but the software is still massively undercooked. At this rate I don't see the phone becoming more than an interesting curiosity rather than something I'd seriously want to use as a phone.
@@softwarelivre2389 the performance running linux really isnt the issue. It’s performance as a phone is the problem. At this point, i dont see a time coming that it will ever be a daily driver and replace my regular phone. It is just not usable for its intended purpose. Frankly, even if it were to become usable in the near future, its lifespan would be terribly limited by the fact that its using very old cellular tech. Jmho. Ymmv.
To be fair the price is justifiable because the kill switches, replaceable battery and design cost them more since they're not mass produced.
And being able to run GNU/Linux, ARM-compiled programs with it as well.
In the world of youtube apology videos this one is the best. At the start of the video, without even knowing what you are apologizing for, i accept your apology.
Side note. The only time i have had a kernel panic in linux was because of a hardware issue.
Paid $100CAD for my Pixel 3aXL running Ubuntu Touch, its been my main devices for 2 years now. Never made sense for me to get a native device when regular phones can run linux mobile. Its like buying a laptop designed for linux vs buying one off the shelf. The linux built one will prob be more expensive and have less good hardware. Its sad but true.
I would only buy a Framework laptop, and Fairphone with the removable battery and no glue best repairability. Framework is even working on an open-source UEFI, which is awesome to see.
Dude, when I was first into computing, the idea of having pocket computers would be beyond awesome. It obviously ended up not the case, but that's not really because of the pocket computer, more so on how the system got involved into all this. People need to value their privacy, it's a basic element of freedom, without it, you are no longer free. So no matter the goodies, privacy and in turn, freedom, are far more important. All of those phones suck, people need to get rid of them.
People will always value safety and guarantees over freedom, if they're forced to choose. It's a simple product of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
It should not be your primary phone lol
@@HaveYouTriedGuillotines you're delusional.
I use an OG Pinephone with Mobian/KDE Plasma as a "daily" driver. I loaded Mobian with too much difficulty--I can claim to not be a command line king/hardcore coder. It all depends on what you want to do with it. Is it slow? Yes. Does it suck in terms of battery life. Yes. Is it buggy and unpolished? Yes. Would I recommend it to someone who depends on their phone being a replacement for their computer--NO. I use a phone as a...phone, plus a few other things (texts, mainly). In that, the Pinephone is--adequate--and that is enough. What am I missing? Well, google or the fruit company tracking me. Not being a walking receptacle for advertising with every kilobyte of my existence being sold to the highest bidder. I can turn off a whole host of systems with a hardware kill-switch.
It's a choice. Some people are going back to 'dumb" phones...but they may discover they're not as dumb as they think. Most of all, it's about control. The path of most resistance is what I choose.
Same here exept it's Mobian/Phosh, I would prefer KDE but always had problem with calls. I tried Manjaro, Alpine, Suse and some others with little or no success so I stick to Mobian. I wouldn't recommend it but I love to have total control on it. My first smartphone was a Fairphone 2 and I was frustrated with android or unbuntu touch.
I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of flashiness and features for freedom on mobile; but it's got to be able to make calls and send text messages, do it well, and not be laggy. And the battery better last at least 12 hours if I'm using it lightly.
NOBODY IS USING TEXT MESSAGES ANYMORE! Use Email alkready even mobile. Even classic phone calls are dying. More and more people are using IP telephony like MS Teams, Discord, Whatsapp, Teamspeak etc. more often.
It does send SMS and make calls. Kinda laggy it is, unfortunately. Battery does not last very well.
When you are talking with people who have integrity, apologizing for being wrong usually earns more respect rather than anything else.
the hardware ain't that great, that's why i put down the pinefone and went back to rooting android. maybe in another 5-7 years it'll be ready for a daily drive
Just bootloader unlock and custom ROM the lineage or any G-Free Rom is enough. No need to go root route.
I have a PinePhone Pro (and many other Mobile Linux devices) and... I agree that it is not very good. In a way, the slower original, AllWinner A64 powered PinePhone is a better device, as it is more stable. I have had the best results with postmarketOS and DanctNIX (Arch Linux ARM for the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro) with Phosh.
If someone wants to get into Mobile Linux, I recommend you to try postmarketOS on a OnePlus 6 or Xiaomi Poco F1 - or an original PinePhone. If you have lots of money: I like my Librem 5 very much, but to just get an idea, it's likely too expensive.
The thing is the Pinephone Pro, being a newer and pricier device, has had way less development time from the community, so it's expected that it will lag behind when compared to the OG Pinephone. Hope it will still continue to improve, even if slowly...
Is Ubuntu touch stable on the pro
@@mrguiltyfool I am sorry, I have mostly played with DanctNIX and postmarketOS on the PPP and can't answer this really, as I have only booted Ubuntu Touch a few times months (or is it years by now?) ago. I keep hearing good things about SailfishOS on PP/PPP so that may also be worth a look.
If you don't have a PinePhone Pro, get a Pixel 3a (not 3!) instead, it has great Ubuntu Touch and Droidian support, and mainline support (in Mobian/postmarketOS) is also somewhat decent and getting better.
From neck beard to neck beard, it’s good to admit you’re wrong. It’s a learning and teachable moment. Keep up the good work.
You should give postmarketOS a try, the wiki seems to give the impression that they have the installation process and development working fairly well. I trust them overall for Linux mobile the most even over the ubuntu touch crew.
No! To many dumb niche distros should not be mentioned and push. Its a waste of time even developing them for the time beeing. Support a major distro first like Arch and make the key software usable. Other distros will follow when the basic is running like a charm. The devs should focus on one thing first!
@@gintokisakata7490 PostmarketOS isn't really a niche distro, not in the "Linux Mobile" space at least, they've helped set up a lot of the groundwork that distros like Mobian were able to then pick up.
I agree with you, the Pine phone is crap. I had the original Pine phone which lasted a few days after the warranty expired. The next time I have that much money to throw out. I’ll go to the races and bet on a 3 legged horse.
I have the original pinephone and the phosh interface was usable, really liked sxmo too, but the device was always getting stuck in a loop coming out of sleep and overheating in my pocket.
Thank you for your honest clarification on the Pinephone. I was myself that close to get the cheaper one, but the moment I've added it to the cart - the price rose by $50 or $70, something like that, for "delivery", which didn't seemed fair to me, given they ship it from a European country to another one, and shipping shouldn't be that expensive. That was the deal-breaker for me and I just gave up. I don't like, when a company gives you one price on the shelf and a different one at checkout.
Now, after watching your video I'm just glad I gave up on buying it.
However, I'm still very enthusiastic about having a Linux mobile, so I'm paying attention, whenever something interesting will show up.
was tempted to get a pinephone and then i saw the hardware and thought that may not even be usable for what little i do with a phone
To answer the question of developing for it, cross-compiling. Compile on main system then SSH into the phone and use SCP to move things around. Test things on the phone while trying to keep the phone resource utilization as low as possible to keep thermal throttling from happening.
Btw, have you flashed it with Tow-Boot and replaced the modem firmware? Also, are you running the OSes from eMMC or from SD cards?
I really have been disappointed with the Pine phone. I really want this device but with it being a "founders" edition which after reading sounds like a "good luck" I can't justify it. I love the hard disconnects and the keyboard case with the extra battery. But the extra battery is mute because it won't hold a charge for longer than a few hours. I even read you might not get calls or text sometimes and need to trouble shoot that. I check back in every 6-12 months and see no progress on Pine phones end. I got a Google Pixel 7 pro instead a few years back and swapped to a different OS. I hope Pine phone finally makes a finished product that I can put into that cool keyboard case but its looking like that won't happen.
Yeah, I feel you! I have the Pinephone not pro, and back then, it was NOT marketed as a developer device (only the braveheart edition had been). So I bought it, thinking that I would actually been using it as a phone. But it was such a colossal disappointment, regardless of which distro I used. So it quickly became a paperweight.
P.S.: The fastest distro on the pinephone in my experience is PostMarketOS.
P.P.S.: Of course there are other devices capable of running mobile Linux, however, they don't run it natively, they run it on top of Halium. That's why they don't have to bother about the hardware, as distros running on the pinephone have to. So the comparison isn't entirely fair.
Have they even updated the specs on this phone or is it a dead project? Could had sworn this phone came out 2-3 years ago. They need to release a newer improved version if that’s the case.
I had similar experiences, but I found that it made a better terminal when connected to a TV or monitor and a keyboard, etc.
Really, it would just be cool to have that phone as a terminal, w bt and nmcli, a few other things. Just a shell w connectivity, like termux and ssh. It would be handy just like that. All cli tools, maybe nushell.
More and more, as an owner of several pine devices including a Pinephone pro, i am coming to the conclusion thats its just not worth it. The fact is that pine is a hardware company and the software is done by the community. But, almost every time, the hardware comes with serious deficiencies that make the community lose interest relatively quickly and dev work gets slower and slower, with the device never really reaching its intended potential. To be sure, i love the idea of pine64, but i’ll be looking for another similar source. I just dont want to part with anymore money in their direction, since there are so many almost insurmountable mistakes made in the hardware side. Maybe the hw issues will be resolved in the next prod run. But, if this is a simple board trace error, my device has now cost twice as much, or if they actually change a chip, much of the dev effort already produced is useless. Jmho.
i agree, was fun to have 8 different OS at boot with me.ubuntu toutch & alpine based was best. On the no-pro-pinephone
I got a pine book pro a few years ago and it was total garbage. The screen came deatached, it was extremely slow and buggy, and the soldering seemed to be made by me, which is NOT a compliment. And it was 400€, aka 500$ at the time.
The PinePhone looks interesting--especially with the physical switches to turn off connectivity--but it's clearly not ready for regular use. I'll stick to CalyxOS on a Pixel for now.
I've heard that degoogled Androids work better on Pixels, but it's really ironic that in order to free yourself from Google you first need to buy a (not cheap) device from them
@pmmeurcatnpics So you are not well informed. I have a Galaxy A52 that is compatible with LineageOS, an Android distro, which doesn't come with Googled by default. You can find a lot of good phone models you can change ROM.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 well I did use a lot of custom ROMs on a mid-range Xiaomi back in the days, so I do now that you don't necessarily need a Pixel for that. It's just that I've recently read an article about GrapheneOS, saw that it's for Pixels only, and assumed that this is a common thing now. But it may very well be that this is exclusive to GrapheneOS
The level of honesty is priceless! Can't pixel phones load these mobile spins of linux?
Use AOSP custom roms or Lineage OS. They are good enough.
is not even advertised as a consumer product but is not bad is just for specific people "devs"
Hmm, does postmarketOS not work well? I heard that there was an update to gnome-mobile that seems rather interesting. Actually I’m on the fence to get a device for postmarket because of it.
These phones are low spec, put it on another phone.
Pine64 seems to charge double than what they should for cheap hardware. They're not a good value, they just sell cheap quality products.
Switched To Linux recently did a good set of videos of using a pinephone with various distros.
@@eds8691 they are. But he has a Pinephone (not the Pro), so different device and different experience.
Where can I buy Francis merch?
It isn't bad... it's terrible.
Why would you want to do development on such a small device? I suppose it always depends on the use case, but I have always preferred doing things on a laptop compared to a phone, and you can just use a bluetooth headset of whatever type you prefer to do phone calls and use something like google voice to make phone calls and use a laptop that has cellular connectivity even if it doesn't officially support phone calls.
Not on it but for it.
@@TheLinuxCast Oh, my bad that makes more sense.
As long as they will try emulating/making Linux on phone, they will fail miserably.
Once they start making a Linux Phone, their project will take off.
Linux on phone is expecting your phone to behave like Linux "Computer" on a smaller device that requires instantaneous response, which is a recipe for disaster.
A linux phone is basically a phone which happens to run on Linux. It is fundamentally different than the former.
Phone is used in a dynamic environment. Making a call, doing a transaction, sending messages, Picking an interesting picture or video of potential accident etc.
What linux phone project usually miss is a non-technical regular average joe.
Pinephone as well as other "open source phones" are what wouldnt even qualify as a demonstrator prototype unit for normal manufacturers. They're a joke. All two of them 😅 Literally pre-2015 tech sold for high prices because "fReEdOm".
If you want to be Google free buy a Pixel, Xiaomi or anything with an unlockable bootloader and put a custom rom like eOS on. You end up 3-4 times the processing power, much better compatibility, better cams, everything better for the same or lower price.
Sure, and that's what I'm doing now, but if everyone does this, Linux mobile will never see light.
@@DanielSigmand Well maybe it doesnt have to see the light. Theres Android. Theres Google free Android. Do we NEED Linux on mobiles? I dont think so.
@@Spicysauced
I guess you aren't aware that Google (years ago) started neglecting the open source side of Android and any good/useful OS feature is added only as closed source for their pixels, that's without talking about the lock-downs instead of the freedom Android is known for.
The direction Android going is to isn't bright at all.
And yes, Linux is needed, "competition" is always good for us consumers.
Send it to the competent engineers/installers at pinephone.
It's funny though I've been using Android since maybe 2009 and was an extremely early adapter, I remembered having Windows Mobile and a HTC Touch Pro so I was doing the Android2SD dual boot for the longest time, then I got an HTC HD2 and MAGLDR and got more into Androind, my first Windows Mobile 6 device was a PPC6800 the HTC Mogul, I got it cause I had a Nokia 6500 and the screen cracked on me, so I bought a Samsung Messenger and the screen again cracked in my pocket, so I went down into the smartphone pocketpc rabbit hole then with the Mogul. First actual Android was a Dell Streak Mini. But for me I've had nothing but luck with the Pinephone Pro I even installed Mobian, updated it to the latest then removed a lot of Phosh stuff and terminally installed Plasma because it just looks so much better, I prefer Mobian because it's the most stable with everything working, but yes Pinephone/Mobile Linux per-say is still very limited.
I've been wondering about the state of the Pinephone. I wanted to get one but I had no real use for it.
So is there any good linux phone...??
Honestly, you're better off getting a midrange device from the past 5 years at quarter of the price. The specs are just awful
In their defense, other phone companies get part of their revenue on bundling a bunch of apps into their devices, which is not an option for Pine64. Other factor is they don't yet have economy of scale. Still overpriced tho.
It is impossible to make serious calls with the Pinephone (Pro). The voice quality for the other person is absolutely unusable, and has been for years. Somehow I have the feeling that nothing has been done about it for years. This is absolute basic functionality, regardless of the Linux distribution. The fact that nothing has been done about it all these years and with the knowledge that the Pinephone and the Pinephone Pro have the same modem leads to the assumption that the Pinephone (Pro) has a design defect that leads to poor audio performance that cannot be corrected by software. I can ignore all the other problems but I would like to be able to make phone calls.
Is the problem only in calls, or does it affect regular audio recording as well?
For me, I have no problems with plasma mobile on my dell venue 10 pro with fedora installed on it. Maybe because it is fedora and using x86....
I had a better experience with droidian on pixel 3a or oneplus 6T than those crappy pinephone. If they made it $1000 and made it high end, i would buy another one.
ive been burned by linux pc hardware. i suspect you have to buy a mainstream os on a prebuilt to get clean hardware then erase it if desired. sorta like paying a tax.
Thanks for the update. The pine phone interests me for the kill switches and to a lesser extant the removable battery.
Sidebar but what browser do you use? Looks good.
Vivaldi
Thank you . I purchased a pine phone based in TH-cam reviews and it is unsusable. Too slow.
I wish they improve it and make it as 5G or 6G.
I just got a GPD Win mini perfect phone replacement for me
I wonder if Linux can run on a Pixel Fold?
I am so waiting for a foldable UMPC with Linux (pls Arch) for years now! Its so obvious to develop something like that. Why is nobody doing it but bringing the hundredth bulky laptop? I dont understand this … The future is already here, so please wake up already, dear Linux community!
Having owned the pro model it waa junk out of the boz. Hardly worked. Reflashed the os still was flakey. librem 5 is better but at $1k not worth it. i think an os needs to be like Linuz install it on most modern hardware w driber support
there's an entirely different way to build such a device that might work far better, but it'd be both more bulky and sleeker, also more likely to be compatible with everything.
This video was really funny. But true. I have a librem5 and i think its much the same. Barely useable to do anything. My n900 linux phone from 10+ years ago was better at everything.
Dang, after Librem turned out to be crap, I pinned my hopes on PinePhone.
If we could put a sim card and make calls etc with a steam deck, I would.
How cool wouldn't that be? But for some reason, we can't.
Not "I'm sorry", but I apologise...
You are wrong. This device is as snappy as an android phone can be. And the battery actually lasts decent time. How do i know this? I own the phone and i tried it. With android. Yep. You read it right. On official wiki you can find hardware test suite for ppp, it runs off of sd card, and ir as fast as any android smartphone. For now it runs best on arch phosh. Though OS needs polishing. But i think you could apologise once more, and at least try to install that android build for yourself before making these ignorant claims.
Maybe try postmarketOS.
I thought the pinephone was for developers.
It is? What is your point?
@@ibaqueroberto1942 yes it is. my point is it is meant for writing software and test it. not to have a nice user experience.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 2nd paragraph under "Description"
@@TuxTuxedo-oc9kg I think you missed the point on the video. The commentator is presuming it is impossible to use PinePhone for any reason. And it is, PinePhone is horrible for anything, I have one.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 what did you want to use it for?
First
EDIT: Eh it is what Steam would call an "Early access" product. I hope it gets WAY better and I can ditch Android before I die.
If we want it to improve, then we need to help it improve. Either contributing in some way (code or documentation, for example) or by donating.
Hoping on that shiny new train called "youtubers destroy startup companies"? ;)
I am the new MKBHD!
some regular android device can run linux mobile operating system better than the hardware that specifically made to run linux mobile.
wierd your audio seams more comppresed or something not sure if its on my end dose anyone agree?
600 euros for 3000mah battery, IPS 720p processor whose on definitely not 8nm as RK3588 would be, which is also bs, since china wasn't even close to 14nm process node. RK3399S which pinephone pro uses probably also 22nm for 2020 which is straight up trash given it probably has a gate and pitch of above +60nm, which for this year's standard is a worthless cpu.4GB of ram and oh yeah plastic frame. 600euros like are you kidding me, they're giving us 2015 speca. I'd give 100 euros for this, given this is a linux phone, okay 300 euros would be fine too, max 350, 600 euros, That's a joke..
That's my take on this phone, I wish they added to the list of supported devices, poco phones from Xiaomi, I'd definitely would use.
This is pretty much everybody's experience with PinePhone, unless you're shilling
Man, Matt, are you listening to Alexandre Oliva's Q&A in the saturn room at libera right now? I hope so. And the great talk prior. Right up your peeve, and upstream solution space addressed. Methinks you'll like it like having a big dump and sigh of relief. It might even refocus and re-enliven thelinuxcast imbued with new passion for principles and purpose. Too much hype? Well, it's poignant to me anyways. Make of it what you will.
Hey, thanks for trying.
I'm gonna keep trying. Ubports is next.
You keep saying Linux Mobile like if Android is not the same exact Linux xD
Google run their own kernel tree for Android ... It is not vanilla kernel from Linus
@@tibbydudeza yes, and I run the Zen kernel but it is still Linux like the Android kernel is.
But that is not the point. If you call Android Linux just Android, may as well call GNU Linux just GNU.
@@GambuSaurAndroid is Linux, but it is not GNU/Linux. I like to call it Android/Linux for that reason. (Yeah, I sounded a lot like RMS, right? lol)
@@softwarelivre2389 I like that clearer naming. I also like to call the OS just Livre Software like your user name, because despite GNU Linux being the two major pieces, there are a lot of other essential smaller pieces that forms the OS.
@@GambuSaur while I agree with your point, GNU/Linux systems are not the only FOSS systems out there, it is just the biggest one. Other free and open source systems include ReactOS, RedoxOS and the BSDs, for example.
Maybe GNU is not the correct term to refer to all the ecosystem, but they were the ones that started the GNU/Linux ecosystem we use today, with the creation of GNU Coreutils, GNU's Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) and GNU Network Object Model Environment (GNOME) in the 90s.
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