Is Super Metroid "the WORST In the Series"??? | Spicy Take Salad
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2024
- Is Super Metroid the worst game in the series? Has Zelda's story ALWAYS been bad? Could the "Switch 2" flop as badly as the Wii U? In Spicy Take Salad we read and discuss YOUR controversial Nintendo opinions.
Check out my new channel @TopicArlo!!!
If you like what I do, please consider supporting me on Patreon! You'll gain instant access to the official Arlo Discord server, behind-the-scenes updates on unannounced projects, and other stuff too!
/ arlostuff
Twitter: / arlostuff
Twitch: / arlostuff
Stream VODs: / arloplays
This video was edited by the wondrous Kane!
/ kanesthename
"Reloaded Installer #11" by LHS.
/ @lhschiptunes - เกม
How anyone can say Super Metroid is the worst Metroid game when Other M was so bad it nearly killed the entire franchise is beyond me.
There is no Other M in Ba Sing Se
Metroid is not a good franchise outside of Prime
@@billymanziel5666 Boooooooo get him out of here
Federation Force was so bad that the entire fandom ignored and forgot it exists to still hate on Other M.
Other M isn't even that bad as a game. The story sucks but the gameplay is decent. Way more enjoyable than Federation Force or Metroid NES.
I do agree that the Switch menus prioritizing performance is important, but not even a passing thought of menu customization is no fun.
The general trend towards no themes for consoles makes sense from a pure business sense but it's making gaming less enjoyable overall.
Idk about this take of Switch menu performance being better vs not having customizable themes. Like, what is even better about the Switch's menu performance? The fact that the person doesn't specify a single aspect for comparison between the Switch and 3DS/WiiU clearly tells me that this opinion has barely cooked at all. The only thing I can think of is that the Switch Eshop navigation is somewhat better than the 3DS's in that it can show more options at once and thereby reduce the amount of scrolling through the store when you are just trying to browse.
If they want to argue about switching between games being faster on the Switch, I have just as easy a time switching between different games and apps on my 3DS. However, my 3DS has some cool Pokemon, Zelda, Kirby, and Shantae themes. Whereas my Switch Lite just has a bland white background with no music. 😐 Also, I can't rearrange my games and apps on my Switch the same way I can on my 3DS, so it is yet another downgrade. 😕
@@pixelbro99 The 3DS's menu isn't slow but the Switch is still faster in a lot of things, although I still find it weird that this argument is connected to personalization. Especially most of the apps on Switch like Gallery, Settings and Controller Config as well as the profile pages are so much quicker to load than the 3DS's counterparts (Game Notes, Friends List, Notifications, etc) and especially the 3DS Settings app is so slow compared to Switch
But yeah I wouldn't say that the reason this is faster is because the Switch's menu isn't customizable or because it doesn't have themes or lets you drag around the game icons on the home screen
but the majority of the discussion isn't about the 3DS but about the Wii U anyway because that console's menu is actually slow. Start the console - wait a moment. Then choose your user profile and wait like 5-10 more seconds. Launch the game and wait like 10 more seconds while it's showing the same static game art on screen until it's done loading. All of that takes so long especially in comparison to the Switch (even when it's turned off).
Then you go to the home menu and everything pauses for a moment while "HOME" menu takes a few seconds to appear - in comparison to the Switch which brings you near instantly to the actual home menu. Closing the game and going back to the Wii U Menu takes ages again. This is what people actually talk about when they say they prefer good performance over a charming menu with a lot of personality
Thank you. Literally why can’t we have both?
The reason they don’t make another mother game is because series creator shigesato itoi has definitively stated that he dosent want there to be any more games in the series
People lately seem to believe that if something does not go on forever, it’s bad, or that it’s not worth your time. “Why haven’t they made another (blank)?” “How could the quality have gone so downhill?” (This next one is hyperbole) “How can I enjoy a game if it does not have endless amounts of content that will keep me satisfied for years that it will totally not lead to burnout?”
Like people have forgotten stories and sagas are supposed to end. The story it was telling is done, the end. No need for more sequels, no need for spin-offs, it’s done. Enjoy the story it tells! Because the other option is stagnation, or the story starts to not make sense because so much shit was added to keep it going.
Or you know, battle passes in multiplayer games… because we can’t let our players unlock everything and be done with that, we gotta turn it into a chore to keep “engagement” because of FOMO instead of good gameplay… ugh.
I’m getting off-topic. But good examples would be Megamind, Wreck-it-Ralph, Shrek (even if 2 was good), X-Com (referring to Chimera Squad), insert TV series that goes on for too long… did we really need another of these?
Sometimes a previously unplanned new installment or another season of anything turns out to be good, or an epilogue is added, and that’s great! I enjoy my fair share of these. But do we *really* need stories to go on forever? (And I’m not talking about reboots, ports or remakes, those are another topic)
@@minibotas9496 I know you said remakes and reboots are another topic - I want to address that. I personally have ZERO issue with game series coming to an end. My issue is when its been 20+ years and we haven't seen that remake or reboot or even in some cases those original games being suppressed by the companies that made them? Look at Chrono Trigger or the old school pokemon games. I would love a GB/GBC/GBA cartridge of all the pokemon games from that era similar to the star wars one with like 7 games on it.
@@balancedgaming2103 and people would absolutely love a remake of trigger and cross.
@@minibotas9496 On one hand I completely agree. On the other hand we're talking about franchises that Nintendo loves to brag about having by putting it front and center of nostalgia bait but simultaneously refuse to give any sort of content beyond the very rare and occasional droplet by releasing the original rom somewhere. If they would just let the franchises die out entirely, fine. But by constantly putting them forwrd by, say, highlighting their appearances in Smash Bros and highlighting their inclusion on the NSO service, they have nobody but themselves to blame when people ask why we can't at least get a remake of those games that Nintendo acts so proud of.
@@CouchSpud91 I've added ports to the list of stuff that I did not want to confuse people with thinking I'm comparing them to making more of (blank) and therefore ruining / exhausting consumers of (blank) on the long run. And by that I mean that I do agree that if Nintendo is not going to do anything with F-Zero or Star Fox.... they should stop with the carrot on a stick. I believe it's good that they're celebrated, like putting them in Smash, but you're right in that it's looking a lot like nostalgia bait with how they're handling them lately.
As someone who's first Zelda was Link's Awakening, I simply can not abide by the notion that it doesn't have a good story.
I’ve played every Zelda in existence and Links Awakening is good. But unlike most people, I didn’t like Link to the Past at all. It’s actually my least favorite Zelda after Zelda II.
It was an older game the devs were allowed to run wild with. Now Zelda is too successful, and they aren't gonna allow silly things like "lore" and "characterization" spoil their perfect IP.
We can't explore worlds like Koholint or Termina anymore. We can't have a different villain than Ganon, and we certainly can't have great tweaks to these characters, they must always be nearly the same...
@@WasatchWind Majora’s Mask and Minish Cap were some of my favorites. At least with Link Between Worlds (which wasn’t that long ago) we had Yuga and some interesting game mechanics. But not since the Switch has been out
@@WasatchWind Funny how Spirit Tracks comes up later in the video because I think ST has the best and most developed Link/Zelda relationship in the series and thus is another win for the decent story column.
ZELDA HAS A GOOD STORY!
I'd argue Wind Waker,Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword have good stories
They have great stories
Twilight Princess has a amazing story in my opinion
They have phenomenal stories...
that take was terrible. I'd also disagree with Arlo when saying they all have the same story. MM's story is nothing like WW and WW's story is nothing like SW or LA. BOTW and TOTK are extremely different stories from previous titles the only thing similar in most is Zelda, Link and Ganon which makes since those are the main characters
I think they have good stories for Zelda, but compared to where storytelling is in video games nowadays, it’s really no contest. Characters are pretty static and don’t have very fleshed out personalities. The plot doesn’t do anything crazy. And there’s never any deeper message or moral. There is the outline of a good story, but Nintendo isn’t super interested in going much deeper into it. And that’s totally fine. I’m not playing Zelda for the story, I’m playing it because it’s super fun.
Clearly the psycho who said this has never tried to play metroid 1 for more then 5 minutes
Or the series the lore is very interesting
Metroid 1 got made redundant when Zero Mission released. Super really needs the same style remake, but I doubt it gets one.
I will die on the hill that there only 10 NES games that are actually good
Zero Mission made Metroid 1 playable, and it was GREAT! Wish they'd do the same with Super Metroid
@@jamalwalkerlist off 10 and I will add 5 more good ones
About the zelda story thing, superficially speaking yeah it's basically the same story being told over and over again, but one thing that a few zelda games do with their stories that make them feel very special that not many games can manage is tying their themes to gameplay and make you FEEL the subtext and what they're about without directly telling you
Here's some examples:
- in OoT the contrast between playing as a kid and as an adult says about the feelings of growing up, seeing the world as darker, more hopeless, more complex, but also allowing you to do many more things and enjoy more aspects of life
- in Majora's Mask, the existentialism and dread of experiencing a world where you know what will happen at any time, what every single person does and struggles through yet never being able to help them permanently is so real, i doubt anyone who played sequences like the anju and kafei quest or the alien invasion doesn't feel a little bad turning back time knowing what happens to them if you dont help and taking away their happiness
- breath of the wild at almost every moment while you play reminds you that even though when all plans fail and a massive catastrophe can bring the world to ruin there can still be beauty, hope, people banding together will still live on and thrive...
That's just three examples but with basically every zelda game you can find a lot of depth when you look past the simple story that is told to you and dive into what meaning the setting, the characters and the act of playing the game itself can bring
This. Most Zelda games have a "theme" or a story that's told through the world. The method of storytelling fits the medium very well.
I love this take. I just got done playing Spiderman 2, and while I loved it and thought the story was excellent, most of the story was divorced from the gameplay. You’d get a cutscene (sometimes a playable one) and then go back to just… playing the game. It was a really solid story but would have probably been better as just a movie.
The best video game stories (to me anyway) tend to be the ones that couldn’t just be movies. They take advantage of the medium to create cohesion between the narrative and the gameplay. The Zelda series tends to do this really well, especially in the examples you provided.
Hey I see people like my comment so here's a recommendation if you're looking for more interesting readings of Zelda games: check out the video Every Zelda is the darkest Zelda by Jacob Geller, it's a masterpiece of a video essay
And even then, the take is still wrong. Majora's Mask is heartbreaking in several points with its narrative. Wind Waker tells a genuinely great story, especially with Ganondorf. Twilight Princess is really Midna's story and it's all the better for it.
Zelda stories have all been "good" in that they havent been "bad" and they have been more than "serviceable"
I assume when people say "good" though they mean "deep" or "complex", in which case most games dont apply, and in which case only five games even tried (tp, ss, mm, albw, totk). Even so, even the games with the weakest stories do an excellent job of evoking a concept of a moment in time, specifically in an average person's life.
"Zelda games never had a good story"
Hard rebuttal: Majora's Mask
Also I would argue that the overall themes of OoT are very strong (growing up, friendship, duty, etc), albeit that's not exactly the story.
Another hard rebuttal: Link's Awakening.
@@matthewmuir8884 Fo sho!
the themes of a story are the story, at the very least much more so than the literal plot. this is honestly where zelda stories shine imo, they have reasonably simple plots but make up for it with thematic subtext, as with most good hero's journey-type stories
@@davis1733 I mean, you're not wrong, but imo the themes are only a part of a story. We also need to consider all the other elements of (videogame) storytelling, like plot, characters, tone, pacing, lore, setting, dialogue, etc. On a fundamental level I do agree that the themes can have the biggest impact after the journey is completed, but it's not THE story, just a part of what makes a story... I'm sure there are plenty of examples of bad stories with great themes, and vice versa.
Majora's Mask doesn't have a good story, it has good side quests
One thing I REALLY didn't like about Super Metroid is the fact that if you use the final save stop, you are stuck in Tourian with no way out.
That’s a flaw with many games of the day.
That's the only thing I dislike about the entire game tbh. Other than that? Up there with the Metroids that come after it as one of the best games I've ever played.
@@LevyNeptune Wall jumping is also really wonky. It’s too precise for me in my opinion.
@@liammcnicholas918 its a good thing its only optional tech
@@liammcnicholas918 Ironic given the legacy wall jumping has on speedrunning.
While I agree that Zelda has never really had a good narrative story, I think saying that is a massive disservice to the other storytelling aspects of the series. The visual storytelling and interesting side characters have always made up for the lack of a strong plot.
When you ask someone what they love about Zelda other than the gameplay, hardly anyone is going to say the story, but they will tell you about their favorite character or location- and that’s just as important as narrative, in my opinion.
Absolutely, hell many beloved games are more known for their great worlds and characters rather than actual plot. Take Dark Souls, or hell even video relevant Metroid, both series are honestly not that interesting plot wise, there is one but it's usually rather simple and a means to an end. However the environmental storytelling is what makes both so powerful, what emotion each area gives and what untold history they may hold,. And more so in Zelda and Dark Soul's case, they have a variety of side characters who don't have any real play in the plot but are interesting and endearing to make give the feeling of a lived in world with people with interesting history in it.
@@graphite7898 Yeah exactly, I beat Elden Ring and loved it but I couldn’t tell you what the story was about.
Seriously, as soon as that point came up I thought,
*Counterpoint: Majora's Mask*
There only a handful of great characters in the ZELDA series, most just comprised of tropes already
When people mean locations they mean dungeons, hardly anybody really cares about the zoras domain in ocarina of time
And people here comparing to dark souls which has a masterclass of broken to time storytelling
@@jesusbarrera6916 Zoras domain and the ost puts to shame any dark souls location easily
"Worst in the series"? It has some issues, but it's still good. I'd argue one of the best that isn't in the Prime trilogy. Also, yes, WarioWare games should be $30 at most.
Probably both.
I'm kinda super sick of the narrative that Metroid 1 and 2 are irredeemably bad games with no reason for people to like them. I'll agree for sure that Super Metroid is a fantastic game, and far from the worst in the series, but there are plenty of valid reasons to prefer the first two games. Most significantly, as Arlo himself illustrated in his Advance Wars VS Fire Emblem point: Super Metroid isn't just the same thing but better. It's certainly similar, but it's extremely different in many ways that not everyone is gonna necessarily like.
Hard agree on both.
I agree with WarioWare pricing, but i most certainly got my money's worth out of Get It Together, though.
Maybe I just have rose tinted glasses by I still think Super Metroid is one of the best games ever made. When you compare it, side by side, to modern games like Hollow Knight it can look a little dated. But it did things no other game had done by that point.
Put it another way: crapping on Super Metroid is like talking trash about Pitfall. They are legends in the game industry.
Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening are excellent stories. Simple, but excellent. They are epic fairy tales, replete with charm and wonder. Maybe they aren't the most complex or mind-blowing, but they appeal to the core of a person.
Anju and Kafei's star-crossed romance, Skull Kid's descent and redemption, Marin's wish to be free as a bird, the Nightmares' desire to stay alive. They are like small parables along Link's journey, making the wider narrative rich and interesting. Much like the classical literature that endures to this day. The Odyssey or The Arabian Nights come to mind.
I don't think Zelda would have the wide appeal it does without its simple but effective story element.
Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening are indeed great stories. Link's Awakening stands out as one of the few good "It was all a dream" stories.
@@matthewmuir8884 If I had a nickel for every time "it was all a dream" in a Zelda game, I'd have 2 nickels; which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice, right?
@@NovaMaster375 ...What was the second time?
@@matthewmuir8884 The end of Phantom Hourglass. I always interpreted it as "it was all a dream"
Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening stories have 1 thing in common:
Koizumi 👀
$10 WarioWare game app on a phone. Seriously a match made in heaven
dumb ways to die is free on the app store
Jackbox style Warioware game? I’m in!
@@nicklinn5731Wait that actually sounds like an amazing idea
I've always felt that warioware was perfect for the mobile game scene. it was kinda the prototype for that kind of game. I can't believe nintendo has passed up on this opportunity.
DWTD is free on the app store
The segment dunking on Zelda’s stories without mentioning Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword was physically painful
dont forget wind waker
Link’s Awakening too. Underrated story Zelda-wise
People think all of Zelda's storytelling is the same always ignore the games with the best story
Linebeck's arc is my personal favorite
It baffles me that people say Skyward Sword has a good story. The entire plot is literally just “Go get Zelda, it’s your destiny. Oh Zelda was just here, she’s off fulfilling her destiny. What are you doing? Go get her, it’s your destiny. This weird tongue guy? He’s doing his destiny too.” The blandest motivations and the blandest characters of the entire franchise (except Groose).
My vote for best story goes to Windwaker. I like that you begin by trying to save your sister before you get caught up in a bigger plot.
@@panampace “Ugh, Ganondorf is back. Kill him again, please? Thank you” That’s basically Wind Waker’s story. See? Every story sucks when you explain it poorly.
Link's Awakening was great story telling, because for once, Link (main character) didn't need to save the princess... he had to save HIMSELF from a fake world made from his memories...
Saying Super Metroid is bad is like saying that ice cream is bitter and low fat
"Super Metroid is bad" is such an unbelievable opinion it's almost certainly bait. I played that game as an adult with zero nostalgia and it's easily one of the top five games ever made.
There was no bait involved with this. I genuinely dislike super metroid so much.
@@aspookyspookcrab6253 why tho
@@aspookyspookcrab6253why?
I played it and I got bored in 10 minutes
I beat Dread btw loved it
"Bad" is a bit strong, but I kinda agree. I played Zero Mission years before Super, and I thought Super was fairly clunky.
I'm the one who did the advance wars > fire emblem tweet.
Arlo nailed his answer, both are good but different in some key aspects. And man I still hope for a new advance wars game.
I love this format
I agree that fast performance for the switch home menu is important, but the 3DS had pretty much the same efficiency as the Switch _and_ personality behind it. Closing a game is almost the exact same inputs, and allowing multiple rows of games makes it easier for someone to pick a game from their entire library without having to burrow through the "all games" menu on Switch. The Switch menu is missing _tons_ of features that the 3DS had in spades - folders (folders are useless if you have to go to the 'all games' menu), free icon arrangement, and the ability to see rows of games at once or have them in the _exact same spot_ at all times, just to name a few. Picking up a game that you took a two-month break from just feels _terrible_ on Switch, but it's super easy to find those games on 3DS.
Yeah I have no idea what people are talking about when they say "the Switches UI is better" have they ever tried to play a game on it they have not played in two months. This was never a problem on any previous Nintendo system.
While I personally do really love the 3DS's UI (in particular I loved how customizable it was, while still remaining very simple to navigate) I think a lot of people were burned by the Wii U's UI, which is where this discussion generally tends to come from I think, with the 3DS just getting caught in the crossfire. The Wii U's UI had loads of personality and good vibes but sheesh was it slow as all get-out. I can turn my Switch on, decide to play a game for the first time in two months, scroll to the all games menu, pick it out, and get it loaded up just in time for all the Miis to have finished running into frame on my Wii U that I started up at the same time. lol. At least, that's how it feels to me.
Ehhh, you sure about that? Were you using a NEW 3DS? How long ago since you last played on it? Because going back to my 3DS XL, and booting it up, it takes it's sweet old time doing so. Both turning on, and leaving out of a game, by pressing the home button, to then closing said game. It's been pretty slow.
Sure, you're pressing the same amount of buttons, doing what the Switch does. But the difference is the amount of time, in between pressing those buttons. Which is what the comment, and Arlo, is talking about here.
@@byronlyons3548 N3DSXL, and it was literally _just_ before I wrote that comment (I was playing Mario 64 DS while listening if you're curious).
For the most part bootup and game suspension/closing times would be the fault of the 3DS' hardware, not the menu design and certainly not the UI. The Switch is a console, so naturally it powers on, freezes games and closes them faster than the 3DS would most of the time, and I don't think the 3DS was powerful enough to allow a game to run while you were on the home screen like the Switch can with Dark Souls or Splatoon - I imagine that's why a lot of online 3DS games prevented you from going back to the home screen when you connected.
In a hypothetical world where both systems have the same specs and processing power, the only thing that would matter would be navigating the menus and the time it takes for the menus to open and close - in your example, both systems just require you to push the home button, then X, then A - that's why I said it was the same number of inputs instead of "it takes the same amount of time". The number of inputs to open or close a game is a fairer way to judge the menu's efficiency because it judges the _menu_ instead of the console it's on. _Obviously_ the Switch is going to be faster than the 3DS at those things, but it wouldn't be slower if it had an optimized version of the 3DS' menu, and even if you didn't speed up the popup and disappearance animations that most of the prompts have, the easier navigation would save enough time that those little frills would be negligible at worst.
The Switch has both a touchscreen _and_ motion controls built-in by default. The designers should have been able to implement _both_ for handheld or docked mode to make the menu faster to navigate. There is no reason it needed to implement a boring, minimalist UI design that most game icons will naturally _not_ conform to or mesh well with, especially when an adaptation of the 3DS' menu would be just as efficient.
@@DWN037 Honestly, it seems like it has nothing to do with the difference in power between the 3ds and Switch. But the moment the whole Theme thing was introduced to 3ds, the whole system just ended up slowing down overall. Especially when you bought and downloaded some themes, and used them. Where as beforehand, it didn't have any problem freezing the game, then closing the game afterwards. Let alone booting up. Like, it became very apparent when I first gotten one theme.
The problem comes down to, is if it starts affecting the base model, then it's not really great for the system. And no, having a "better" version of the system isn't a solution. It's just a band-aid to a problem, that shouldn't be happening in the first place.
Yeah, and your argument case just moved the goalpost, away from the initial argument/point. Because it was exactly just that, in that it slows down, and takes up more time navigating through the UI. Losing a second may not seem like much at first, but it adds up when it happens every time you do anything. Look, sometimes our nostalgia isn't all that it's cracked up to being. This is one of those times.
about the personality of the switch UI: i think the poster fell into a logical fallacy. a false ultimatum. they say they would "take the fast performance of its menus over [its personality] any day of the week". but in reality, it isnt a binary. they could have added music to the shop, music or some sort of futuristic nintendo sounds on the home screen (like on the 3ds), customizable sounds, an actual theme drawer (at least give basic colors other than black and white if you wont give us picture themes), access to folders on the home screen, or any other touches like that. and none of it would slow down or bog the system whatsoever. i dont know how arlo didnt point this out. As much as i do love the fast navigation on switch, some personality would cost them next to nothing and more importantly not get in the way of anything
"Get the creator [of Earthbound] on it and see what happens."
Who's going to tell him?
Simple doesnt mean bad. I think that is where people confuse themselves when they say Zelda never had a good story.
Its just unfortunate that now Nintendo just doesn't care and we'll never get a good one again.
No, in fact simple means good. Links Awakening is simple and great. Skyward Sword is convoluted and bad.
They tell their stories unconventionally. People are just way too obsessed with pure traditional narrative storytelling like you get in movies to see the brilliance of what is in front of them.
I haven't played TotK but BotW told a great story in a subtle and unconventional way that I adored. Same goes for OoT, MM and a number of 2D titles too.
I liked the story in TotK. Some aspects of how it was told are a little grating (identical cutscenes and such), but I think people give the story itself more flak than it deserves.
@@Dharengo Spoilers
My only issues with TotK's story are the inconsistencies with NPCs' reactions to Puppet Zelda, the draconification reversal not being explained very well and a few English translation errors. Otherwise I thought it was perfectly fine.
@@BoneDog1215 Skyward Sword is not even that convoluted. It's mostly just a simple boy traveling to save and help their loved one. And that if you really want it, you have to work for it. Time traveling is just a means to an end, like it is in Ocarina of Time.
Hell, not even Ocarina of Time goes in on the consequences of messing with the timeline, like, at all, until the very end. But only by other games, and not within the game itself. The song of storms at the windmill? Hand waved away as a bootstrap paradox by the fans. Which is more or less the same thing in Skyward Sword. Yet Ocarina of Time's story is great, due to it more focusing on the coming of age idea and theme of it all. Time traveling just more emphasizes the idea of time moving forward, sometimes too fast for people to keep up.
As an earthbound fan I want to clarify that the creator of the mother games has stated that the series is complete and he doesn’t want any new games. Most fans of the series don’t view the games as video games in the traditional sense with much more focus on the story, art, music, messages, etc. than gameplay, combat, level design, etc. I wouldn’t say indie games similar to earthbound are necessarily trying to make their own mother 4 but more so make a game that would give players a similar emotional experience that the mother series gave to them.
Yeah exactly. A remake in the style of the clay figures would be amazing though
Totally agree! A remake of earthbound beginnings is my dream game.
@@Jacks_game_room I recommend Eastward and In Stars and Time as Earthbound successors.
I always find it funny whenever I see someone talk about Earthbound to be a "dormant"/"forgotten"/etc. series in the same vein as something like F-zero, because it's pretty definitively just done. It has a specific story at it's center, and that story is pretty definitively complete (hell, it the 64 version of Mother 3 had it's production go smoothly then the whole trilogy probably only would've lasted about 10 years). I don't know why anyone would really expect them to make more.
Unconventional take on the smaller games issue: Just put them on Switch Online. They wont be able to rely on their retro catalogue to drive growth forever, so they'll have to find an alternative to that sooner or later (esp with how they regard NSO as a core pillar of their business). Heck they could even use it as an oppurtunity to iterate on some of their old games (new tracks for MK64 for example), what with how popular romhacks have gotten.
Omg... why does this sound SO plausible... NSO/ Expansion Pak is the appetizer transition into Nintendo "Game Pass" 😳
I think you're underestimating their capacity of barely scratching the surface of their full retro catalogue and stalling the releases until they just end NSO and just restart the catalogue from zero again with a new service, they did this like TWICE at this point
Wow, I can't even say how much I love this idea. I would really love whole new worlds to some of my favorite games like Donkey Kong Country or actually adding Luigi to Mario 64. The fact that Nintendo is constantly fighting with fans to take down projects, why not hire them instead.
This would be horrible unless they also sell them separately. That would very easily lead us down a road where NSO shuts down and they become lost games unless you pirate.
@@jacksonlanterns3731 I mean indie developers have been hiring the developers of Nintendo fan projects recently. I doubt it'll happen unless Nintendo fundamentally changes their philosophy, but with how many absurdly high quality romhacks have been coming out itd just be a good business decision.
I get that the stories in Zelda can be pretty straightforward but I don‘t know man…..NEVER had a good story? At the very least Zelda has Majoras mask.
Don't forget Link's Awakening; that one also has a really good story.
Do people think of the story when they think of Majora's Mask though? I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that can tell you the plot to Majora's Mask in much more detail than "the moon is falling in three days and you gotta get the mask back from a sad kid". There's obviously more to dig through but do people remember it? When you think of games with good stories, you think of Final Fantasy, The Last of Us, God of War, Persona... Games there the story is the driving force of the game itself.
@@MarkTheMagnificent THIS. Majoras masks qualities are in its world and scenario, NOT its story.
@@MarkTheMagnificentThere are many factors when discussing a games story and actual plot is just one of them.
What about the actual storytelling? The setting, tone, characters, all factors that Majoras Mask passes with flying colors.
To think having a short plot synopsis equals bad is to ignore every other aspect as to why people remember that game's story.
@@MarkTheMagnificent Majora's Mask was like a collection of short character-based stories wrapped in a horrifyingly bleak framing device.
Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask have great stories. Ocarina starts off with the typical “defeat the bad guy and prevent his evil takeover” kind of story. It’s more grandiose than any other adventure game of its time, and even when it’s whimsical it still feels grand. Then, the tone shifts when Link ages up after finding the Master Sword. The world is desolated when you exit the temple, and when you go to see the castle you find an entirely new structure towering over the crater where Hyrule Castle once stood. That tonal shift is just the beginning of real story.
In Ocarina of Time, Link fails to prevent destruction. He’s just a little kid way over his head and falls into the trap of the villain. Ganondorf got exactly what he wanted, and the only way for Link to overcome him and prevent further devastation was by literally relinquishing his childhood to become The Hero of Time- a title that had been thrust upon him by fate, the gods, or whatever omnipotent ‘powers that be’ within Hyrule’s world. Most other Links rise to the occasion and choose to be the hero, but the Hero of Time never had that choice.
He was a Hyrulean child living in the forest of fairies; he was already an outcast that didn’t belong in the village he lived in. He was pushed out of his home because if he grew older there then he’d eventually get lost and turned into a Stalfos for only the Kokiri can keep their bodies in those woods. He had to leave; it wasn’t his choice. “What else is there to do than fulfill a destiny then”.
Look, Ocarina of Time is still a product of its era, BUT ITS STORY IS NOT BAD. It’s a great story that holds so much within it, and I didn’t even begin to mention Majora’s Mask and how that game’s story is, in my opinion, ten times greater than Ocarina’s. Ocarina of Time is the backbone to Majora’s Mask, and while you can still feel and understand MM without having played OoT prior, playing both sequentially definitely helps you understand Link so much more. You just need to fully engage with the games and their stories
I'd personally love to see themed spicy-take salad videos in the future - if you were to have one themed around something specifc, like Mario or something, then I feel it could maybe encourage more specific and niche takes that one may not deem important enough for a regular video?
I LOVE THIS SERIES. Please keep making Spicy Take Salad episodes!
Edit: Also, smartphones have ABSOLUTELY killed mobile console gaming. 90% of normal people would not carry around a cheap portable console when they have Clash Royale on their phone.
I still feel like they offer different things
Switch sales certainly disagree with you
@@enzog1078 The Switch succeeded because it is both, and had the selling point of carrying around full console games in a portable format. Had the Switch been simply a portable with the technological limitations of a portable (Think GBA), it would have almost certainly failed in the face of mobile gaming.
@@enzog1078 I would compare the Switch to the Wii U before the 3DS. The switch is a console, that just happens to be capable of mobile play.
I don't. I hate spicy takes.
Playing Super for the first time on the lead up to Dread, I enjoyed my time very much, but the wall jump was SUPER annoying to pull off, and after playing Dread, I realized just how sluggish the jumping in Super is, especially after getting the Screw Attack.
Thinking the jump is sluggish is fair, no disagreement there even if I don't mind it. However with the walljump I'd argue it being difficult to pull off was very much intentional to make it more of a earned skill rather than a knowledge based move. Even if you know about it you can't just whip out easily and by past sections, you need to get properly good at it.
@@graphite7898Plus the wall jumping in Super is more of an gamebreaking sequence rather than having it to progress to the main game. There's not an section where your required to proceed the main campaign. It's mostly optional for new items or shortcuts that you get through without an inventory to use.
Funnily enough, I had the opposite experience. Started with Fusion and Zero Mission, but mostly struggled with wall jumping until I got to Super where the floatier physics helped a lot. Still had trouble with some of Super's other issues though, including getting stuck due to the x-ray scope's layering issue after defeating Ridley.
The physics in Super Metroid are very floaty, & wall jumping in that game has a very steep learning curve
I played through Super Metroid for the first time through Switch Online and then got to play it on an actual SNES on a crt afterwards, and I noticed it feels noticeably better played that way. I think it's just one of those games where even a little input lag can really affect the game feel, so with emulators it's very easy for it to feel worse than it should.
Regarding Zelda, I'd say the series' golden age in terms of storytelling was definitely the N64 era to Wind Waker.
Ocarina of Time seems simple at first but it's themes are so finely layered and perfectly executed the more you look at it.
And the split it's ending creates between Majora's Mask/Wind Waker and how that affects each of those games' premises and tone is, to this day the one true moment where I feel the Zelda Timeline really shines.
I always found the tale of Link & Tetra sailing off together to find a new land after the old Hyrule is washed away and forgotten to be especially compelling. And seeing that saga actually unfold (bit by bit at least) in Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks is the kind of long-term payoff you don't really see much elsewhere in the series... Even if the execution often left something to be desired.
I'd really love if they revisited it, but we all know that's not happening :’)
I disagree on the Ocarina of Time take. It's not bad. But if you play A Link to the Past before and than go to Ocarina of Time, than you'll see the similarities. In fact, Ocarina of Time is just Link to the Past in 3D in terms of structure & story telling.
@jaretco6423 Structure yes, but storytelling? Ocarina of Time does a lot of storytelling just with the music and visuals, something ALTTP wishes it could do. And Ocarina might have a very basic plot, but it also has very strong themes of the responsibility we take on after we grow up and what effects our actions have on the world and its future. ALTTP doesn't really have themes like that except for a generic duality between good and evil. It's not just a generic story, but it's also told in a generic way.
@@jaretco6423 Yeah on a surface level that's really obvious. You can say that about the majority of Zelda games which is why we're all having this conversation lol.
Well, the first big difference between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time is that OoT actually has characters to become attached to. Just compare & contrast the role of Princess Zelda alone and maybe you'll get what I mean.
But if you're looking for absolute originality, Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask remain on top👍
Not including Twilight Princess is insulting. You know, the Zelda game that actually won awards for its story? Midna is obviously peak, but stuff like Zelda's role, Snowpeak, the Zoras were poignant too.
@jacobmonks3722 As someone who has zero nostalgia towards Ocarina of Time and played Link to the Past first, I disagree. Ocarina of Time might've been strong with it's theme and world back when it was new. But in this day of age, it has gotten worst. Later Zelda games does it so much better. Even Majora's Mask; which many people considered it the black sheep of the series, has strong theme and worlds attach to it than OoT has. And as far as gameplay wise goes, I prefer Link to the Past more cause it's more fast paste and has better designs in many areas. Plus it has more themes. Whereas Ocarina of Time almost looks the same.
There's a place in this world for both Advance Wars and Fire Emblem IMO, and it is a little sad that Reboot Camp's launch got so botched and the response seems to have been lukewarm. This franchise just cannot get a break, it seems.
There's a lot to love about Fire Emblem as a game franchise - it's plot, supports, and permadeath can really make you really care for the characters and deliver very deep experiences as a result. But because Advance Wars does not have the RPG-elements and uses far less RNG, I always found it to be the superior game in terms of pure strategy. I also found the cartoony, modern warfare aesthetic of AW (besides Days of Ruin) to be a refreshing departure from the darker, medieval settings of the FE franchises.
I just want both to live - I love me my strategy games.
Ya well the remakes or reboot for Advance Wars what ever it was on the Switch they came out with recently... had a real war to deal with, as it was being made at least partially in Ukraine or something like that.
@@TheJadeFist Right, well that's what I meant by the launch being "botched."
IIRC, the game was delayed multiple times, with the second delay being over a year because of the Russia-Ukraine war. It echoes what happened with the original Advance Wars, whose release in other regions besides the US was delayed because of 9/11. That's one of many reasons I say this franchise can't get a break.
The thing was, Reboot Camp was fully ready for release by the time that second delay happened. Due to some weird set of circumstances, someone was even able to play the full digital game on their Switch in advance for a while.
So, the whole thing was caused by the political situation. And we can argue whether that was the right call, and whether they really had to delay the thing for a full year...but the point stands that this game had an unfortuitous launch that killed whatever hype people had for it.
@@chaoticcranium My whole opinion of the thing is Ukraine needed to surrender like over 2 years ago. Half a million of their men would still be alive.
But as far game development goes, it's understandable that something like that is going to be delayed or cancelled when you have much more serious issues to deal with. Somethings are out of the control of the common people just working and going about their lives. The fact the game even came out is impressive enough.
awesome video Arlo! hey btw you might need to patch up your hand a bit, 4:00 mark you can see you got quite a noticeable tear in the finger.
god that is viscerally disturbing
That's Arlo's lunch
HES DYING OF DISEASE
I cant stand the idea that people wouldnt want to see a falsetto brave luigi mini side story akin to what we get in bowser or peach segments even as like a post game unlockable. I WANT THAT.
You probably haven't read luigis story in ttyd then. It wouldn't be fun to play.
@@kyleegerI don't even care if it's the story he tells in game. The kid in me just wants to be paper Luigi! I've wanted it soooo bad since I was like 8! I NEEED IT!
maybe it could be a new follow up story set in the same kingdom? Or just a new side story somewhere else? I'd even just take being able to swap to him after you beat the game!
But, I do admit that that's just a deepseeded dream of mine, and just some new endgame content with Mario would be better from a gameplay perspective...
At least I have that Luigi badge
Eh i would argue that saying Zelda has a bad story is conflating a simple story with an intricate story, simple does not mean bad just as intricate does not mean good.
Well they're not calling the stories bad, just saying they aren't anything noteworthy
Zelda's interconnected nature is both a great strength and it's greatest weakness story wise. Going from OoT to WW where they implied that the kingdom of Hyrule did some horrific stuff and seeing Ganondorf's monologue at the end before the climactic battle where he admits his reason for it all was that he was born in horrible conditions and wanted the peachier life of Hylians for himself was brilliant because in a sense he's a monster Hyrule created. But then that gets ruined later in Skyward Sword where they say he's the reincarnation of a powerful evil being so is basically just evil in essence.
Skyward sword doesn’t exist in my head cannon. It’s the classic overexplaining of the lore and sucking all the magic out of it.
I'm actually really surprised not to have seen more people give flak to that Demon King reincarnation twist. I can see how people would like it as a hint of the games being connected, but it robs villains like Ganondorf of the capacity for much depth as a nurtured motivation would now feel completely pointless since they already have a motivation born from their mere identity. I've heard that this may have been a mistranslation and I'm not 100% sure if it's true, but I think it would've been so much better for Demise to instead curse the whole world with his lingering hatred, making it so instead of villains being his reincarnation, they'd be able to wield his power by reaching a certain level of hatred or evil. It would make sense to me if the Blood Moon was the lingering embodiement of Demise's curse and Ganondorf drew his dark power from it.
@@speedude0164 I think a part of it is you really have to pay close attention to Ocarina of Time and replay it a lot to really absorb enough of the subtext to really figure out that Hyrule has a pretty checkered past to say the least. So they might not even realize that's a retcon in the first place
Wind Waker was the most info we ever got about Hyrule or Ganondorf's histories, and even then it was a few vague comments contained in one monologue. I don't think the Zelda team were ever particularly interested in actually exploring that idea. The existence of a Demon King also doesn't technically have to preclude the existence of Hyrule's dark past, if they wanted to depict that story they still could.
I always assumed the idea of the Zelda series is that it's multiple alternate tellings of the same legend. No two people tell the same story the same way, so it's a "reimagining" every time and there's literally no continuity between them unless the games specifically say so. And, no, I refuse to acknowledge the Hyrule Historia exists.
I definitely disagree with Kaelan's opinion at 3:27.
I see where they're coming from, totally, but I've seen too many examples of Nintendo proving that they can still do it if they put their heart into it. Metroid instantly comes to mind, like Arlo mentioned. Look at all the amazing Metroidvania games like Hollow Knight, Blasphemous and BloodStained. Absolute modern classics that define their genre...Yet, Metroid Dread was still able to come out and blow us all away, it was still able to live up to that pressure, because Nintendo truly put their heart into it.
Mario Wonder is honestly another example. Sure, Mario never really went away, be we saw how many 2d platformers just made NSMB look so obsolete. It seemed as though 2D Mario was to only be relegated to level creators, as so many series (Even within Nintendo like DKC) were just upstaging it. But Wonder came about, and proved Nintendo still has the capability to make a 2D Mario that can actually be compared to the modern classic Platformers.
If Nintendo truly puts their heart into a game, it WILL be a hit, no matter what's come out since the series was dormant.
Agreed, I feel like the 'Warioland' part of this is kind of what they're getting at, even though they're clearly inspired by warioland, Games quite like Antonblast and Pizza Tower would never come out of nintendo.
I disagree with that opinion (although see where they're coming from) because not every abandoned franchise has even been "succeeded". Mainly talking about F-zero, since that's the abandoned nintendo franchise I care about the most. For F-zero all "successors" I can think of is fast racing neo/fast rmx, which were good but didn't really fully scratch the F-zero itch, and the upcoming Aero GPX, which does look very promising, but more or less a very well-done imitation of f-zero with a lesser budget (no offense to the game, I'm really looking forward to it, but point is it's by no means something nintendo couldn't "surpass" if they actualy bothered to make a new f-zero game).
@@metroid3986 Miyamoto said that when making F-zero X, he said they had to sacrifice graphics to make sure the game runs a consistent 60 fps.
If thats true then an HD F-zero is too much of a risk.
"it wont sell well because its an iterative model"
yea ok man, tell that to the iphone users
A phone that billions of people have on them all the time vs. a separate device most people don't use more than 3 hours per week
Apple is a fashion company that happens to sell tech.
Apple is a terrible company with terrible phones, but with a great marketing campaign.
Nintendo did release a new F-ZERO game, though! F-ZERO 99 is surprisingly one of the best F-ZERO experiences out there, and it really nails a lot of the general themes of the series with how you're interacting with the other racers and managing your boost meter.
4:45 you say that but Xenoblade has made me cry multiple times.
I'd argue that Xenoblade proves his point more than anything. Xeno is, observably, more different than the vast majority of their 1st party catalogue, and it takes handing the IP to a 3rd party developer to get something similar (3 Houses, as an example), with anything else it can be compared too being a franchise they don't own (Persona, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, off the top of my head). I *adore* Xenoblade, but it is very much the exception that proves the rule
It's practically the go-to Nintendo series for the story.
@druidt8949 Yeah, third-party developers get away with much more than in-house. We may call Bayonetta a first-party IP, but it isn't technically a Nintendo game the the same way as Mario or Zelda.
Arlo watches dunkey though so he will never play xenoblade now sorry
XC3 was my GOTY 2022 despite the fact that I didn't care about the series before that, simply because it made me bawl multiple times through the story. wonderful game even despite gameplay I don't love
It will never not hurt me inside a little bit every time Arlo says Nintendo doesn't really do large narrative driven stories when the Xenoblade trilogy is sitting right there.
Arlo, I understand that you're not a huge anime fan in general and that Xenoblade leans fairly hard into those tropes. But those are the kinds of narrative driven, deep lore, deep combat mechanic type games that you always ask for.
Xenoblade is 2nd party IIRC
"Zeldas don't have good stories"
The fuck is Majora's Mask, then?
Or Ocarina of Time?
Don't forget Link's Awakening.
or even wind waker! the entire hyrule being sunken, petra being zelda, the king of red lions, link becoming the hero... it's all very well done. In fact, I say it's my favorite story of every zelda game
I loved Phantom Hourglass for the Temple of the Ocean King and I hope the concept will be revisited at some point. The idea of returning to the same dungeon and unlocking new speedrun routes every time is great.
Unfortunately, it got a lot of hate because it had so many controversial mechanics on top of it. Time limits, stealth sections, instant death (kinda, you're sent back to the start of the floor). None of these ever bothered me, but I get where the hate is coming from.
I only kind of agree with the zelda story take if it's about the main stories of the games, I feel like the side stuff along the way in zelda games are the most memorable parts
I like a good story, but at the same time, I just want to enjoy them for what they are. Like, I have seen people say the story is lacking on a certain game and my thought process is, I see that, but I enjoyed it. That's just my take though.
Also... Yeah, I wouldn't say Super Metroid is the worst. I'm not a big Metroid fan as I prefer other Metroidvanias. But I know a good game when I see it, even if it's not for me. So very much disagree with that!
Majora's Mask has a great story. But it's not something that comes from a complex plot or in-depth lore, but rather the strength of the themes and characters that you help around Termina.
Link's Awakening is also very good and the story manages to have an impact on a lot of people despite being very minimal.
I got a take:
I don't want Nintendo to announce any Zelda stuff earlier then fall 2025. First: I really don't like when we get a teaser for a new game just to wait a view years to see another teaser and then to wait again for a new look and so on. We always know nintendo is doing something with their most succesful IPs so waiting a year more or two to see an actual trailer with more context to it with a nearby release (8 months to it would still be fine to me) wouldn't bother me at all.
My second point is actually just me daydreaming about the potential of possible Zelda remakes: It would give them the time starting to proper rework the older zelda games and not just simply remaster or port them to the current system. Starting with OoT which could be 27 years old by the time of a remake I could see nintendo doing incredible remakes. Timing is probably all they need for those games to be good.
Metroid is my favorite franchise, and Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time. Hasn't been surpassed yet.
Have you played Hollow Knight?
@@kirby2809 Great game but they honestly aren't similar enough for it to be direct upgrade or anything. I personally love both games, I'd say I vastly prefer Super Metroid but that doesn't take away how much I greatly enjoy Hollow Knight, however I love both for honestly very different reasons and so it's hard to say Hollow Knight did Super Metroid's formula better.
@@kirby2809Hollow Knight won’t change his mind
Hollow reminds me more of the castlevania part rather than metroid in the metroidvania genre
It was surpassed by basically every 2D Metroid lol
While Zelda has had a few banger story moments, I do think it's safe to say that most people don't play Zelda for the story. And that's ok, the gameplay is fun enough that it's already a lot of people's favorite series.
I think the biggest problem with the smaller game on different hardware argument is casting my mind back to the WiiU and 3DS era where the 3DS felt like it "took" games from the WiiU.
The 3DS had too many games that made me question "why wasn't this on the wiiU..?"
In regards to Zelda story, I admire their simplicity and simplicity does not mean it's a bad story. If anything it's nice not to have something spoon feeding you plot for 90% of the game because it has such a big story to tell. That's my issue with JRPGs in general. Seriously playing final fantasy 14 started giving me a headache with it's heavy plot at times.
Zelda's best storytelling is in the manga adaptations.
Each Link having their own vibe and personality greatly improved the experience. It's very difficult to tell a compelling story with a blank state protsgonist without a party of colorful characters surrounding them and following along on the journey or other characters that they interact with and fill in the gaps. That's what they pull off with JRPG's.
A Zelda JRPG honestly sounds like so much fun. Especially if it was HD-2D.
As a sonic fan and fighting game fan, lemme tell ya, this loop is eternal.
Game comes out, it’s good, people love it, subset of fans of the old ones feel the need to hate new ones for validation, then a subset of fans of the new one insult the old one because they need validation from random people online over a game that they personally like. Then both sides blow up on each other while the socially-cognizant fans say “darn look at those guys go at it. I don’t want to choose a side because there’s quite literally zero need for that”. Then it dies down. Then a new game is revealed. Repeat.
Twitters a cesspool. Just play what you like 👍🏽
Yup, the Zelda community is really suffering from this right now and I'm trying to limit the time I spend in it. I love both the Classic and Modern games and respect whatever direction Nintendo wants to go, and I wish people weren't so hell bent on convincing others which one is better.
Yeah, this holds true to a bunch of franchises.
Zelda being the most recent example, with the whole „modern vs. classic“-debate cooking up again, due to TotK.
I don't understand why people use Twitter. It's literally ONLY bitching
In the Legend of Zelda, stories can get pretty good. Albeit nothing has reached overall masterpiece. Sure, there are some amazing character stories, but the games' stories as a whole are just alright.
15:12 I felt physically ill reading that. 🤣
The Zelda story take is true but so weird how people deny it. I love zelda. I've played almost every single zelda game. The stories are so surface level and simplistic but for good reason. Zelda is a series focused on its world and the exploration of said world. It's so good at capturing you in a feeling of exploration and curiosity. That's why I was so confused when people complain so hard about totk story. Like i get people want something but Zelda realistically never was about th story or else they wouldn't be retelling the same story over and over again
I cleared out a bunch of Metroids in prep for Dread a few years ago, though mostly ones I owned but never finished or could get for just a few bucks. In relatively quick succession, I played-
- Zero Mission
- Prime
- Prime 3
- Samus Returns on 3DS
- Super Metroid
- And I’d already beaten Fusion years before
Of all these experienced player when I did, I can confirm, on a personal level, I liked Super the least. That is a skewed list, I know, I will own it. But played then, trying to go a little chronologically, I liked Super least.
well you still didn't play the first two metroid games in their original forms, so...
Super was my first and even after playing the rest it still is only surpassed by Dread for me.
Super has a game design that is just so perfect compared to the rest. Dread does more and has awesome combat and visuals among many more things.
I love both so much though
@@jclkaytwo In a scenario where I started with the first two originals or just started with Super itself, I could imagine it leaving a far stronger impression. But I just plain liked the more streamlined approach to the other 2D games better.
i mean... I have a soft spot for prime 3, but its a stretch to say its better than super. Anyways, you should play AM2R, Prime Hunters, and Prime 2 as well. Don't sleep on those bangers. I don't think super is the best one, but definitely top 5.
1. Metroid Fusion
2. Metroid Dread
3. AM2R
4. Super Metroid
5. Prime 1 & 2
6. Samus Returns
6. Zero Mission
7. Prime 3
8. Prime Hunters
10. Other M
I'm playing through all the Metroid games at the moment with my son. It a great game at its core, but it's in desperate need of a remake. My son found fusion, zero mission and Samus returns a joy to play and controlling Samus felt fantastic. The shock on his face when he played super and the clunky controls was something. He persevered and we completed the game last night. I even noticed how sluggish it is to control having played through the rest recently. The fact that my son fought through the control issues to complete it shows that it's a gem of a game at its core. Give us a remake of the same world using the Dread engine and controls/mechanics and we both would be very happy.
Legend of Zelda games aren’t known for great stories, because story has never been a primary focus for the Zelda series, it’s more so secondary or tertiary to the gameplay & world building
That same argument could be said about the Devil May Cry series, but does that make them bad games, hell no
My own spicy take for you:
Phantom hourglass, and spirt tracks need a remake ASAP!
Thats not a spicy take thats just a fact lol.
Fr that take is ice cold to me
Woah… is this what it feels like to be based?
@@Someguy6851 Sir I dare say it is
@@Someguy6851 You have a good idea. I don't think ANYONE would disagree with the idea of these games getting at least a visual makeover. They are certainly not the prettiest Zelda games and have some rough edges that should be ironed out.
Does nobody remember that with Wii U you could launch straight into a game from your game pad while the main unit was offline and bypass the main menu entirely?
Why do people say the Wii U menu is slow? It's like 30 seconds at most, and usually not even that. Sure, it'll never be as fast as the Switch, but I still love the atmosphere of the 3DS/Wii U menus. Plus 3DS takes only very slightly longer than the Switch. That's my thoughts, but maybe it's because I spent many years of my life playing on the Xbox 360 where loading takes an eternity
Slow relative to the Switch I guess. I don't know I have never had much issue with it ether.
Take note of the fact that the Wii U didn't have themes at all and was slower. The 3DS did and the performance wasn't impacted at all.
Their argument against Switch themes doesn't even make any sense.
I'm pretty sure Xenoblade, not Zelda, is Nintendo's premier storytelling series.
14:46 "clean and simple" - *starts singing Simple and Clean*
AW and FE are WAY too different to be comparable on an equal field, the only thing they really have in common is being grid based strategy RPGs
and also intelligent systems
I’ve never played AW but I’ve played FE Three Houses and I absolutely love it. Probably my favorite game ever.
@dpackerman4203 I've seen AW, but I dunno if I'd enjoy playing it. FE just resonates with me more lol
Advance Wars isn't an RPG in any way. It's a turn-based strategy game
Small issue to this comment of AW and FE's only shared being grid based strategy RPGs, as someone who absolutely loves both and definitely agrees with the general point of them not really being directly available, is that AW is not even at all an RPG, or at least, not the style of leveling up story progression stuff of traditional RPG's, the elements of one that you first think of when you hear the term. The two are even further apart when what it seems you know of AW based on your other comment here. AW is realistically closer to chess than it is to FE, so yeah, comparing them like the hot take does really does not make any sense.
Watching Arlo slowly to come agreement with the poor Zelda story telling 😂. One thing though, I did some later research (much later...) on the Sheika from OoT, and those guys were truly brutal. Some of the lore from Zelda, that the games briefly or dont even touch on, is quite impressive.
Saying that nintendo doesn't ignore a lot of its ips is a crazy take to me. We haven't gotten a new Donkey Kong game in ten years. The last Yoshi game was five years ago. Obviously the Mario and Luigi series is pretty much dead in the water given that AlphaDream is gone but they never bothered to pick it back up. Paper Jam was nine years ago. As you say, until Pikmin 4 came out it had been a solid ten years since 3. Metroid Prime 4 still has not come out. It has now been four years since New Horizons. The last 3d Mario Game was a remake and came out three years ago. It will have been fourteen years since Galaxy 2 came out next month.
How much of this lies on Nintendo potentially waiting for their next console release I couldn't say, but they are still waiting. How much of this lies with the Switch's hardware being outrageously outdated and limiting for developers who want to try new ideas I couldn't say, but we still haven't heard any concrete news about what's next for Nintendo. For what is in at least name one of if not the largest gaming companies in the world, it is really surprising that they don't take greater advantage of the vast number of super iconic ips they have at their disposal. It's good that when we do finally get these games they're usually very solid (not always though, Origami King) but waiting upwards of ten years for a game release is wild.
I recommend Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair. It's based on DKC.
And don't even get me started on Kid Icarus.
@@Orange_Swirl Good news is there's an indie game called Owlboy, it's pacifically based on the original Kid Icarus.
Are you expecting Galaxy 3, or something? Because it's not happening. Also, did you just forget that Odyssey exists??
@@BrendanJSmith who wouldn’t be? Galaxy 1 and 2 are two of the best mario games ever made across pretty much all categories, it’s kind of amazing that Nintendo hasn’t capitalized in so long.
It’s interesting that you mention Odyssey; one would expect that such a massive success would’ve also gotten a sequel by now, and yet it hasn’t. Another fantastic game left to sit and gather dust.
My hot take: Skyward Sword and Phantom Hourglass (I didn't play Spirit Tracks) have the most fun gameplay of the whole series. PH specially is so inventive in how they adapted items to the touchscreen, like the boomerang.
I've always really liked Zelda stories, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom included; they always have endearing characters and epic setpieces, and I do enjoy the simplicity of them. I've always been confused however as to why Nintendo refers to that of all things as its storytelling franchise when things like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade exist. I get that those franchises aren't as big, but still Zelda usually isn't the first thing I think of when I think of Nintendo storytelling.
I haven't played the first two Metroid games or Other M, and Super Metroid is probably my least favorite Metroid game as well. I do still enjoy it, but things like the missile toggle and doors not showing up on the map get really obnoxious and hurt my experience. It's funny cause The Geek Critique, who has probably the most well-crafted and well-known Metroid reviews on TH-cam, has Super Metroid as his favorite Metroid game and didn't care for Metroid Prime, my personal favorite Metroid game and second favorite game of all time.
NEW CHANNEL!! WHOOO!!!
“Zelda games never had good stories!”
Ocarina of time, majora’s mask, wind waker, twilight princess, and skyward sword: 😐
Super Metroid is a seminal classic that set the bar for all other games like it. It still holds up even today but I wouldn't say no to a remaster with updated controls.
I think it borders on ignorance when someone says there aren't that many "dormant" or abandoned Nintendo IPs. One thing is having playable characters of those series in Smash Bros. and another is having no new releases in decades. There are so many, just an absurd amount of ideas, series and sagas that Nintendo has left behind. Some, like Earthbound are likely never going to come back, but others like F-Zero and Kid Icarus just to name two are abandoned with no good reason.
This is the decade of the remakes and remasters. Just something as good as the Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2 but for F-Zero would be amazing, but Nintendo instead re-releases old games exclusive to Japan still. In 2024 Nintendo is still keeping old games alive but away from non-Japanese players.
If there's people out there who think that Nintendo doesn't have many IPs just collecting dust, they truly know nothing.
The only reason Kid Icaurus Uprising was made is because wanted an action game for the 3ds, and Sakurai granted his wish. It was just a one time thing.
As for Earthbound, Itoi said he runout of ideas and wants to move on.
We have F-zero 99.
@@orangeslash1667FZero 99 is literally just SNES FZero, but with online multiplayer.
I’m not even a big kid icarus fan or anything but I feel like Nintendo are sitting on some potential gold mine of stories that could be told. Greek mythology is huge! and is still such a popular topic/niche to this day. I feel if they really invested in it and kind of treated it like Zelda with same characters but different stories it could really be something. I personally think it’s one of their greatest fumbles.
@@foxymetroid The problem I have with F-zero Gx is that the single player can be pretty annoying sometimes. With SNES F-zero that was hard but fair, not sure about GX???????
@@lvekai2833 Theres Hades the game.
Majora's Mask is, in my opinion, one of the best stories told in a video game. And the fact that it was done by Nintendo, of all companies, and made in the span of a year will never cease to amaze me.
I agree with the sentiment otherwise, though. Zelda as a series, outside of outliers like Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening (and Wind Waker, to an extent), is just squandered potential. There are SO MANY cool ideas and interesting concepts they could explore in the Zelda series but instead they quite literally invented a lore reason for creating the same story over and over again.
It's very sad to me. I've been a Zelda fan most of my life. I've run Zelda fan sites. I've theorized Zelda lore back when it was relegated to niche fan forums. I genuinely love the series. But Nintendo just cannot help themselves with making the story feel like a complete afterthought or just downright terrible. I really wish they'd realize the potential of a truly story-driven Zelda game, even if it was a spin-off or something. Give us Paper Zelda RPG or something, I dunno.
Zelda games did have a good story here and there (OoT) altough most of the times rather simple, doesn't make them bad. However, in video game world, it's not the story that matters, but the "story telling" so basically how the story is told. And that Zelda has had some of the best ones.
You can't tell me you didn't cry and clench all your muscles the moment that the game was like "Now you must catch Zelda before she hits the ground" in TotK. The story was "ok" but the way it touches YOU personally and makes you feel a part of it. No anime-ass-deep story has ever come close to making YOU, the player, feel like the main actor. Rather than watching a movie.
In BOTW I thought the whole thing with Zelda not having confidence in her powers and that resulting in the death of the other heroes is the foundation for a great and potentially deep story of finding your confidence and overcoming the guilt she must have felt for the heroes dying. But all that was abandoned... and then insert the same LoZ story that's been told a dozen times now.
The take on the ui is genuinely 100% wrong. The 3DS ui worked completely fine, was way more charming, and had an actual functioning eshop. Load times aren’t even an issue on new 3ds, which would surely transfer over into something like switch 2. There’s no excuse for the switch 2 to not have a stylized ui like the 3ds.
I 100% agree. I never understood the argument: "the Wii U and 3DS UI was slow so this one is better". I get that it being faster is nice but at least give me The OPTION to make it look how I want it to look. I don't care if it boots up slower, GIVE ME THE OPTION TO MAKE MY OWN CONSOLE HOME SCREEN LOOK HOW I WANT IT TO LOOK! The problem I have with the switch is not the UI as it is but the fact you can not change it or customize it in anyway. Its how it is and if you don't like it then too bad.
Also you could argue that the UI for the Switch was an over correction of the Wii U and 3DS UI. They did not have to make it so bare bones they could have found a nice middle ground between the two or did something new and interesting with the minimalistic approach. It feels like wasted potential.
This extends further to ps5 (and xbox?) too
I want my themes back
@@chickennugget6684 Yeah I miss themes too.
The Wii U didn't even have themes, so it's not themes that impact performance. It was the design of the Wii U menu from the ground up.
Overall, it doesn't matter that much, as long as it works. It might be nice to have some personalization options, but I'd much rather they not soak up system resources on any kind bloat in the UI, but you know Windows 95 had customization options and by todays standards that thing would run on a toaster / could be running on the Switch 100 times over. Yes it could be done, but will they do it?
I think the dude who said that Super Metroid is the Worst in the franchise never played Other M or Metroid 1 (NES)
Piss off with the Other M hate.
The game is good.
Not great but still good.
@@LUCKO2022Can't agree. Other M is an example of a game that so relentlessly hates the player having any sense of agency and makes every effort to be the most anti-Metroid game in existence. The atmosphere is dull, the story is badly written and in many ways poorly thought out, the combat is repetitive and not challenging, and the map design is forgettable.
@@jacobmonks3722 Fun Fact: the director Other M Takehiko Hosokawa, would also direct Samus Returns. It shows.
@orangeslash1667 He was one of the directors of Other M, but Yoshio Sakamoto undoubtedly made most of the creative decisions. Sakamoto let his ego get the best of him.
@@jacobmonks3722 Get this, Before Other M's development, Sakamoto did not think too much about "what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality", particularly because the games tried to depict Samus as a mysterious person. This explains why Samus barely talks in Dread.
Sakamoto also had no 3d experince before Other M, It shows.
This is why I mentioned Takehiko Hosokawa, because he may have learned from Other M how to make combat more interesting in Returns.
Hey Arlo just curious what type of camera 🎥 do you use for your videos ?
I wish that Nintendo would bring back their "Classic Mini" console series with a "GBA Classic Edition" and a "DS Classic Edition" with each having 35-40 games. The SNES mini that had 21 games was set at $79.99 so maybe set each of these at $89.99. I would buy each of these in a heartbeat.
I fully agree with the take that the Luigi Story should not be playable in Thousand-Year Door. It was just fine as an expository joke. I would honestly rather have a boss fight with Prince Mush, because the original game built him up, yet did absolutely nothing with him. I want to fight the original Champion.
Didnt expect my Zelda take to get in there lmao. To clarify, i do love the world and characters in Zelda games, bit purely looking from a narrative standpoint, i dont think the series stacks up (which is fine!). Appreciate the reaction!
I think they generally just go for the whole "They are repeating history" angle, and then try to put whatever twist on the generation at hand. Typically something about bouncing between two different dimensions or timelines. I agree generally the story is the same, however personally I don't mind if the story is simple as long as the game is good.
People keep saying "it's fine." I don't understand this. No one is expecting or wants Zelda to have fifteen minute long Red Dead 2 cutscenes. But would it kill Nintendo to have some interesting environmental storytelling and stuff?
I remember in Breath of the wild, I found that massive tower in the Akalla region, and was thinking "wow, I wonder if there was a massive battle here at the time of the Calamity." I climbed up it, hoping to discover a character hiding up there, a morbid pile of skeletons, an old journal describing a harrowing impending defeat...
But there was the Shiekah tower, and nothing else. It was super disappointing. Nintendo is so deadset that "story ruins gameplay" and I think they fail to understand it's a moderation thing - that engaging lore, characters, etc can be a reward for gameplay.
I don't want another dadgum chest filled with amber, I want to see Link rediscover an old place from his past with painful memories, or I want to find a funny weird character.
But again, Nintendo, and specifically execs and people like Miyamoto there, think that story of any kind is bad. I don't think it's fine. I think it squanders the quality of the series, when they could easily add in a bit of lore that takes ten seconds to read, and instead they give me a useless piece of treasure.
@@WasatchWindI kinda wish that Link could have encountered a relative. Like a niece or nephew, some wizened old person who tells him that his sister would have been very proud of him.
The takeaway I get from these comments is you can't argue with a good story, I myself don't want another rehash of zelda and link are good ganon is bad beat the evil it's as formulaic as mario stops bowser. It actively hurts TOTK in particular cause the story has flaws in it that would be fixed if link had his own voice but he doesn't... despite taking away the ability to rename him and make him your avatar 🤔 that's stubbornness to evolve and it hurts the series so much
I respect your opinon. Personally, despite the trope of good and evil that involves princess trope, I think each zelda game has there own unique story telling. Windwaker and Majora Mask are good example of this.
my dear arlo, your videos are a simple joy and comfort to return you, like seriously, IN ANY MOOD I'M IN, i come to your videos and i become happy like sheesh man, i beg you to stay safe, keep yourself healthy, and continue to work on whatever you feel like working on!
I agree with the Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks guy. I LOVED phantom hourglass but I couldn't even finish spirit tracks because I wasn't having fun
i had this idea for the switch 2 that, maybe you could choose what you want. i would absolutely love streetpass and a fun mii maker, and a web browser on the switch, but maybe you could have it more customised? like you could have it entirely plain for just games, or you could have it with all the features, or just the features you want. i also thought it would be a cool idea if the web browser could auto suggest guides for where you are in a game and what game you are playing (again optional). because i agree that i want the faster menus, i dont want wii u level loading screens, and i think the whole "switch menus are boring" has been really overblown, it's really more a minor issue than anything, but i would love some more fun features again as long as they're all optional and dont get in the way of just a more powerful switch
nah, its a genuinely pretty big issue to those of us who like customization. apple users might not be bothered but i prefer the devices i use to be as customized as my phone, internally and externally. i can buy all these cute cases for my switch and nice joy con colors but i cant change my theme to match or have any cute custom sounds or anything. it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue if their previous systems had exponentially more features in this department. 3ds had an entire shop where you can buy themes in colors or of your favorite games. which would also change the music on the home screen, the art, the sounds that played when you opened a game, etc. think playstation 4 themes. but the switch has an entire theme menu that has sat unused its entire life cycle, with only black and white options. its a clear downgrade, and consumers have every right to be upset. i understand if you personally dont mind customization but a lot of people do and the only way for nintendo to know that people want these features is to make your voice heard. i think saying the issue is overblown is a bit of a stretch when most of the complaints are legitimately valid criticisms
Would I say "bad"? No. But has it been outdone and improved upon? (Especially in terms of controls) absolutely. Super needs a remake for the clunky controls alone. Something like Dread is just so smooth to play and control.
The controls is definitely something I agree with, even though I prefer the world design or Super compared to Zero Mission, ZM is just much more fun to control and SM feels clunky in comparison.
12:33 FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT
Edit: I'm gonna say why for me personally I like Phantom Hourglass more.
Phantom 1: Temple of the Ocean King- wait why do I hear an angry mob?
The Temple of the Ocean King is something apparently most people loath to go through again and again, but here's the thing: you are going into it with new items, and also are going into it with new and old knowledge. You have more tools to thoroughly explore every time you go into the temple, like how there are torches in the first Force Gem section that when you have the grappling hook, let you skip straight to the next part. There's a door that you originally solve a puzzle to figure out how to go through, then learn via the plot that you can actually use a different symbol to go through it. There's even a secret alt path you can take on a repeat run in the 2nd map section once you have Bombchus, THERES A WAY TO SKIP A TRIP IN THE TEMPLE VIA DOING A SPECIFIC PUZZLE BEFORE LEAVING THE 3RD SEACHART SECTION LETTING YOU GO IN FURTHER AND ACTUALLY COMPLETE IT EARLY DESPITE IT NOT LOOKING LIKE IT SHOULD WORK, NON LINEARITY IM ZELDA! Its Genius. Absolutely genius
Now to compare it to:
Spirit 1: the Tower of Spirits.
You know how everyone complains about needing to go back to a previously beaten dungeon? This should be where their criticism comes from, not the TotOK. You walk up a flight of stairs spiralling up until you go into a door that has the section where there's only the need to go into that one section ever. You get to the end, grab the train map and leave, maybe with some plot happening. The Tears of Light idea is ok, but it means you have to go around the map and look for them, which would be great IF you ever had to come back here or even just had an incentive to comeback. The Tower's main issue compared to the Temple (other then the entrance, Ocean King wins 100%, I'd rather actually play the part I want then walk up some stairs) is that there's no reason to replay a section unless you missed something on a first time through. Even in the like 1 case that isn't the case, it isn't really designed around you going back to a specific section. You play the part, get the chart, and embark on the uh...
Spirit and Phantom 2: methods of travel.
The Boat is better. There's freedom. You literally go from drawing where you want to go, however you want to go, to being literally on rails with how you can choose where/how to go. Also fast travel is way worse, and that's a big deal if you're gonna rail road me into a train car. In Phantom Hourglass there's a weird uncharted island you can pretty easily find that has a secret golden chief of the golden frogs, and he gives you the Cyclone Slate. Next time you find a golden frog, you hit him with your cannon, he gives you a design to mark onto your map (which is why note taking is cool, you literally can take notes easily) and then can whenever draw the pattern shown to be tornado'd into that location. There are 6 frogs, and they're all in useful spots. The Train on the other hand has the issue that you have 2 sides of a portal, and have to find 1 side to hit with your cannon to create the link. You have no way with the map system to at a glance (unless you label each one which is rough) which portal goes where, and they aren't even on the map unlike the frogs after you cannon them in Phantom. Also you can't warp just from anywhere, you have to go to one portal which gets you to its partner portal. This means that you lost freedom in both standard movement and fast travel, and it becomes a lot more boring when you have to take a longer path to a location because the train goes slow and has to be on specific rails
Now here's the subjective ones:
Visuals:
I prefer Spirit Tracks here. Also there's definitely a bit more memorable songs in Spirit Tracks although there's also some reuse from Phantom Hourglass.
Difficulty:
Phantom Hourglass is honestly pretty easy, but to its target audience is honestly perfectly in-between hard and easy in my opinion. It doesn't focus on making your brain explode (except once and in one specific dungeon somewhat but it's literally meant to be the last dungeon before your final Ocean King Temple run to stop ______) but the puzzles in Spirit Tracks by even the Fire Temple were way to hard for me as a kid, and while as an adult I can now get past it, I never would've gotten past the puzzle where an area is a mirror to your rail map if I hadn't googled the answer, and that's partially because it has the difficulty that makes Spirit Tracks less "chill" then Phantom Hourglass. A person thing but Phantom Hourglass is the epitome of casual for fun. It's not meant to be that big of a challenge, Spirit Tracks is similar but trying to be a challenge which clashes with it. I don't know why I'm putting this here, I'm just now realizing this in real time and typing my thoughts on it on my phone at 2:48am, I'll be going to bed soon dont sorry lol.
Final negative for Spirit Tracks:
Ghost Zelda. No not story wise, mechanicly. In Phantom Hourglass, they had a gimmick in the Goron dungeon that honestly is ok for a one of thing. There's a minigame later on that uses it, but that's completely ok because it's not required. In Spirit Tracks, Zelda moves in her standard form and Phantom Form in the exact same way. Sure there's now a come here button, but otherwise it's exactly the same. The problem is that it's kinda clunky, and also slows down the gameplay by quite a bit. It's not fun to realize you drew a line slightly off, and it makes Zelda walk into a wall until you fix it or you notice that she stopped moving because she can't go there. It actually is specifically an issue with the Tower of Spirits, but it's also an issue in general since it's used elsewhere.
Oh and another thing, the Pan or flute or whatever it's called? I hate it. I've actually gotten out of breath trying to beat some of the mandatory things you have to use it for, and it's not fun apparently barely failing or something until you get it right of take a break.
Anyways quick ending notes, I 1: didn't mention absolutely everything, I want to go to sleep lol and 2: I'm not trying to say that Spirit Tracks is trash and never play it. I'm not saying that people are invalid for like it and hating Phantom Hourglass. I just wanted to share why I like and dislike these 2 games. There's also 1 thing to mention: I grew up with both, but main phantom hourglass. There is clear nostalgia biased happening here. All I ask is someday you try it and embrace what both of these games are, fun and charming.
Random thought I NEED TO PUT OUT THERE, PLEASE NEVER COMPARE 2D AND 3D ZELDA AS IF THEY ARE EQUAL, THEY ARE THEIR OWN DIFFERENT THINGS. Thank you for hearing that random opinionated PSA. I have opinion and WOW thanks for reading this. It took me like 20+ minutes to type this out, it's not 3:01am and I'm finally finishing this up. I wish everyone a good day/night, and have fun playing games
I ain’t readin allat but you’re right I think I dunno
@@Ursi_ lol
Spicy Take: Arlo should ask for spicy takes on youtube as well since a lot people like me have stopped using twitter and/or have been suspended for stupid reasons since the muskrat took over
I can respect people who doesn't love Super Metroid as much as we do. But saying it's the worst game in the series is just.... No! I'm sorry. But no. It may not be the best. Ok, fine. I can live with that. But the worst? Heck no! Super isn't even close of being the worst. In fact, it was truly successful and it was critical acclaimed game for an reason. Without it, the franchise or the entire genre in general wouldn't continue. We wouldn't have Prime, Fusion, Zero Mission or any Metroid game or something like Castlevania, Hollow Knight, Ori & more after Super without that game being successful. It takes all the parts from Metroid 1 & 2, improved & add on many things like an map, progression, shoot diagonally or other things and became such an fresh and more polished game. Yeah. The controls are an little bit dated. The jumping can be tricky to mastered & an run button might caught off guard. But for the most part, it controls ok enough because the level designs, the open world & platforming builts around them that are accessable & as long as you know how to mastered it, than it's not so bad. The game also has an option to switch the button layouts. It makes the game more tolerable. Now I will agree the later 2D Metroid games made the controls better. But still. I don't think Super's control is downright bad. Just an little bit janky to get used out of, yet still decent and fun to mess around with. Super Metroid & Castlevania: Symphony of the Night helps defined the genre that's still going strong to this day. Even if the later games do things better and maybe are better, it doesn't take away the legacy & importance that these games lay upon. Also there are games like Metroid 1 ( NES ), Metroid 2 ( Game Boy ), Other M, Prime Hunters, Federation Force and even Samus Returns ( despite that game being an 7/10 good game ) that's worst than Super. Sorry for the long complaint. But I can't agree with that dude saying that. It is wrong to me.
Ok, im going to scream into the void for a minute here. What makes a story good? At your own admission Mr Blue Arlo Man, you find yourself engaged with Zelda stories despite their simplicity. Is that not enough to consider a story good? Are we to disqualify a story for it's simplicity? Would simple fairy tales like Snow White be considered bad stories for their same simplicity? I recognize that this is heavy semantic picking, but I don't think it is fair to consider a simple story not good for that sake. To me, all a story really needs to be considered good is to have some level of compelling intrigue and emotional connection. Link's Awakening is an EXTREMELY simple game being on the Gameboy, yet people always talk about their emotional investment with it's story and characters. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, while simple in how they are told have enough ambiguity in world building and go over complex ideas like grief and growing up that anyone can relate and internalize into their own life experience.
TL:DR - I think it's really reductive to call Zelda game stories, or really any story, "bad". I would interpret OP's intent on his phrasing as "simple" or "boring", in both cases I would disagree but understand the subjectivity
yeah I don't really get that "no zelda game has a good story" take. does a story need to be complex for it to be good?
To me it’s less about the simplicity and more about the poor storytelling methods. Botw is a great example of how NOT to tell a story. Its story actually had great potential but because they told the entire story at the very beginning it ruined the experience throughout the game. Link’s memories became irrelevant because you can’t learn anything new from them. It would’ve been way more captivating if they withheld information from you and drip fed it to you as you found more memories, before revealing the big picture near the end.
That’s why I like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. Midna’s backstory is a mystery until the end. The entire plot in SS isn’t unraveled until Zelda tells you the story of Demise and Hylia 75% into the game. In the meantime the game teases you with small bits of information which just adds to the mystery, and then revealing those mysteries at the end is super exciting.
That’s why some games can have simple stories yet still be good. While games like Botw can have deep lore but feel like it’s all meaningless.
You can enjoy poorly written simple stories you know...
It's not about being complex, but just how interactive is the story? Usually feels like the story is for the most part in the background. You're not actively conversing with NPCs to keep the story moving forward (well.. barely) even if it's a simple story.
Look at the Pokemon games. I'm not saying they have good stories, but at least all throughout the game, even tho they're usually simple stories about beating the 100% evil team, there's a bunch of dialogue all throughout to learn more about everyone and everything.
I like the lore of Metroid, for example, but I wouldn't say that just because I like the lore, the stories in Metroid are good. It's just Samus once again beating a new baddie in a foreign planet filled with monsters.
If I think about it, tho I don't fully remember them, I feel like I enjoyed the stories of the 2D Zeldas more than the 3D ones 🤔
I remember enjoying Minish Cap's story cuz of the characters
i was one of the biggest botw fans for years, as were many others. i was super into zelda, and was hyped as fuck when tears was coming out. fast forward a few months and i havent touched the game since the first few days i binged it. i was really hoping to like it but the cutscenes with the sages killed it for me. that and the lack of genuine innovation. it was a lot less interesting exploring hyrule a second time even after the additions. it felt like drawn out dlc and not a sequel in the same vein as majoras mask. i understand liking the stories and all but youve got to admit they seriously dropped the ball with the writing in totk. if i had never played botw, tears would probably be insane for me but sadly i spent hundreds of hours in hyrule over 5 or 6 years before i played the sequel. the games before those two have varying quality stories and i haven't played all of them yet but im still hurt by how tears broke my hope for a truly remarkable sequel
Zelda is not Disco Elysium. The stories tend to be staging for Link to go on a quest to the 8 dungeons and defeat Ganonodorf. Some of the games have really good small moments, though, like the Shiek-Zelda reveal, Groose becoming an ally, Anju & Kafe sidequest, etc. I don't know how you'd judge these little nuggets in comparison to the overal story.
Rosalina's backstory in Super Mario Galaxy is a great story but it is kind of a side-tangent to the 'main plot'.
8:47 - Majora's Mask has one of my favorite stories in the entire medium. That's if you are willing to read between the lines and also include most of the sidequests.
Spirit Tracks is the best Zelda game. people always say "All the Zelda games are the same!" But then Nintendo gives us this masterpiece and people say it's bad.
It’s not bad, but I would be so bold as to say that it is objectively not the best - if only when measuring mechanics / control scheme.
lol no, Spirit Tracks is bottom of the barrel but it isn't alone, BOTW and TOTK are with it.
That’s a bit of a stretch but yeah it’s way better than its reputation would suggest. DEFINITELY better than Phantom Hourglass which is why this take is bananas.
I don't think its the best but yeah Spirt Tracks is both under rated and over hated at the same time. The DS games don't get enough credit.
@@ItApproaches Agreed those games aren't Zelda games. They resemble hardly anything of what made the series great.
If Super Metroid can be considered the "worst" of the series, then that speaks volumes about how amazing all the rest of the series is.
Well, besides Federation Force and Pinball. Maybe Hunters, too.
As somebody who played Federation force this year for the first time ever, it’s amazing and does not deserve any of the hate it gets. It’s a great game that was announced at a terrible time
Other M.
@@bubbee9382 Super Metroid's controls are hard to get use to, so thats where the hate comes from.
The Switch UI bothers me because games bought in the E-shop are listed with physical copies of games so I gotta go past all these games that I can't play without the physical copy in the switch that could have just been one app for the inserted cartridge ( literally what they used to do and it worked just fine ) and its needless clutter. I feel like I also have to remember which games I do have physical and which I don't sometimes. Honestly considering how simple the Switch UI is you'd think they'd have more time to think it out. Yes it's one flaw but the downside to the simplicity of the Switches UI is that every flaw to me feels amplified.
It is especially annoying to me because it's something that seemed understood before. The Switch UI is worse then the previous Nintendo systems UI's and it's not because it's simple as established.
Phantom hourglass is my personal favorite zelda, much of my childhood consisted of that one in particular, but spirit tracks was still pretty good. Great mechanics, zelda was a great character, loved the slightly goofy vibe and Byrne was a legit cool villain
Zelda has had plenty of good stories. OOT and WW have great stories. TP, MM both great. It's just SS, BOTW and TOTK with crap stories. Doesn't bode well for the future.
SS was okay, but Fi was so unlikable that anything important with her falls flat. Zelda, Impa and Groose were amazing tho. But yeah, BOTW and TOTK stories are pathetic.
How could someone call Super Metroid the worst in the series when Metroid 2: Return of Samus (the original on Game Boy) is right there???
Counterpoint: That's the intention. You're comitting genocide it's not supposed to be fun.
Doesn't make it a great game though, you're right.
honestly Metroid 2 is kinda fun, played it on NSO and had a good time
1 on the other hand
@@brentbechtold7352 He's not talking about the story he's saying the game as a whole sucks which he's right because it does
Metroid 1, the original on NES, is also right there.
Federation Force is also right there.
@@brentbechtold7352 Yeah that counterpoint doesn't work because it's game mechanics and repetitive bosses that make the game not fun. You could change the plot of Metroid 2 so that you aren't doing genocide and the game would still be just as not fun as it currently is.
Thank you for the spicy takes! I subscribed to your new channel! The Wii-U’s issue was reintroducing the tablet to a global audience that had accepted an iPad, it was an unnecessary step to what we all knew Nintendo had been telegraphing (which would become the Switch itself). It was an overthink. Something that I’m very guilty of doing myself. Great Stuff, as always!
I was thinking about it I certain points and I think that back when they were releasing like a whole bunch of Mario games back when Mario 3D All Stars was announced I thought it would have been funny to announce a Wario All-Stars and have it be a compilation of all the old warrior land games except for the Wii one but yes including the virtual Boy one in full color and the original Gameboy game in full color. Think of them like Link's Awakening DX.
However now I think that a remake in the same fashion as Kirby's return to Dreamland would make sense if they did the Shake Dimension.
arlo says nintendo needs to have passion in a game before they release it, they released mario strikers battle league
There definitely is passion put into that game, the animations are clear proof of that, but it probably wasn't exactly what people *wanted* to make