TOO DANGEROUS for the UFC? Doctor Reacts to Oblique Kick Controversy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2021
- Is the oblique kick too dangerous for the UFC? Khalil Rountree Jr defeated Modestas Bukauskas at a recent UFC fight night after delivering a serious oblique kick that injured Bukauskas knee. Fighters and fans alike are debating whether or not this technique should be banned from the sport. This is my take as a doctor
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Exactly my thoughts. I'd rather break my leg than get brain damage and have problems doing basic actions later in my life.
I mean you have a point but hoe many ufc fighters that are retired have problems doing basic stuff in their every day life nowadays? Only fighter i can come up with is matt hughes,but he was hit by a train,everyone else? I still see them pretty normal and being able to do basic stuff in their life,look at james vick,he doesnt have problems doing basic things,randy couture? Chuck liddel? All of em seem fine to me
@@rodrigocisneros3166 they seem fine to you because you don't advertise your brain damage problems and they effect personal life and don't happen on camera like these leg injuries. Many fighters do have every day problems. Renatu Sobral and Spencer Fisher both made their CTE diagnosis public. Both had seizures, balance problems and memory loss problems and Sobral is blind in his left eye from head trauma. Bisping also lost an eye due to a head kick. CTE also leads to dementia in later years of your life...
@@rodrigocisneros3166 bsiping is almost blind one eye with i think 30% vision, also gsp explained on jre about doing things and hours just go by and he doesnt realized and he was explaining early cte signs. Tough sport
Severe knee injuries can ruin your way of life and bring in the same chronic pain leading to suicide
@@huntervanarman4723 his eye was removed he pulled out his glass eye on several occasions
"If you start taking this technique away and that technique away..." you end up with karate. And, nobody wants that.
Exactly 👌🏻
Lololol facts
I mean i dont really see this kick getting banned,but if they ban it,leave the rest alone,wouldnt that be that simple?
@@rodrigocisneros3166 When the oblique kick is banned, it won't be long before someone else comes up with another technique and reasons to banned
Well it's a good thing the UFC isn't the only organization. One has badass fights and pfl is pretty good too. I hate the announcer in bellator and as much as I like big Jon I don't love him commentating. There's just something bootleg about bellator.
More than 50 percent of the fighters would prefer a knee injury compared to a brain injury. Great video!
Have you ever had a knee injury?
@@joe94c
Have you ever had a brain injury?
@@bagger8913s No good answer lol
Too bad in most scenarios, ecspecially this one, he acquired both!! Stupid take.
@@bagger8913s he clearly has
There's a huge difference that being that a arm bar or a submission can be stopped before serious damage happens by tapping or giving up to where the oblique kick can't so the opponent has no option to quit before the damage happens. Once it happens you can quit after the damage is done
You can do the same thing with an oblique kick. If you don’t like the first one just quit 🤷🏾♂️
@@MzhbkOne is a strike the other is a submission. Silly argument.
It's completely legal I'm Muay Thai, and we don't see blown out knees everywhere there.
I’ve never seen anyone throw it in competition so maybe that’s why we don’t see blown out knees everywhere
@@scottjohnson926 that's because of the squared stance and thus high risk low reward.
I believe its to do with stance
@@paulbadman8509 you are absolutely correct sir it’s the stance bc it’s more bladed I use the front kick all the time to kick into the lower thigh and block kicks but also risk getting countered if the kick isn’t returned quickly
@@joshcanady8912 so do most MMA fighters. It's not about weight distribution tho, it's about pivot and stance. Try to sprawl from the side stance. Squared low stance rules.
Learnt this kick in JKD.. This can be classified as a type of low line kick.. Used for distance management as well as mid range attack.. What went wrong for the poor guy here was that he was heavy on his lead leg throwing a punch.. So that exacerbated the impact on the knee.. Unfortunate timing...
One thing you forgot to mention is that Ferguson had the option to tap out of the armbar if he felt he'd be injured. That was not the case with the guy who got kicked in the knee.
Yeah that was a nonsense argument on this Dr.'s part.
great video doc and i completely agree with your opinion on not banning the kick. what you said about other moves being just as if not more damaging than a knee kick is completely spot on. these fighters know they could lose their life in any fight.
I think it has to do with adequate training on how to prevent yourself getting injured/giving injuries during these techniques, and looking for trends of injuries with specific techniques. Emphasizing clean hit and high levels of sportsmanship should be enough to prevent the need for bans on certain moves. Like he said about the arm bar, theres a certain level of professionalism knowing how far to pull to not ruin the opponents arm. It’s a delicate two way street between wanting to win, and needing to respect the opponent (who wants to be on the receiving end of a life altering injury.)
@@gd2234_ But MMA athletes are not really cold blooded, I see that whenever they got the chance to strike they do it, so even if it could damage the opponent they would still do it I think
wow i started watching this video really having a solid opinion about that it should definitely be banned but you've completely changed my mind.. kudos Brian. very solid explanation and reasoning.
It takes an open mind to have a particular opinion yet still listen to a counter argument and then be swayed to change your opinion.
I appreciate this
It should definitely be limited in sparring though. It's not like you have much control over the force like you do with an arm bar.
@@infinitemonkey917 yeah I agree. You could easily train that with a layed bag or post or smt like that. There is no need for this to be risked in sparing.
I think that since the kick is reactive instead of proactive people see it as a dirty move but your take is spot on, it's just a matter of perception, great video!
Also this kick is great for guys who have such a small short reach compare to the other fighter who have significant reach advantage
It's "check aggression" status. And yet there are plenty of instances where it is used offensively, because it's secondary purpose is to set up follow-up strikes. One so that is designed to cause permanent("maim") injury.
Maybe instead of relying on a technique that can easily put you in a wheelchair for weeks (and bed ridden while you recover.) It should be banned simply because of its design; To maim.
But seeing as the 'sport' is just a blood sport. I doubt people will seek its removal. Same thing from the Roman Colosseum. Watching people get injury and/or die is what the crowd wants. (That's essentially what people have been reduced to.)
Fighters safety ?? The only safe place is out of the ring 😆
Except after a Khabib vs. McGregor event.
@@AntumDeluge 🤣
The idea of fighter safety has nothing to do with the cage being dangerous and everything to do with not wanting fighters to take more damage than necessary.
This is a Front Leg Side kick to the thigh or knee. An oblique kick uses the rear leg to cross the front to strike the other persons lead leg. Subtle differences but still different. Great video Doc!
Great video, just one thing to add. Its a bit of a stretch to compare an armlock to and oblique kick. In a lot of jiu jitsu gyms you arent even allowed to use joint locks below the waist until you're at least a blue belt. This is because your akles/knees dont heal as good as your shoulder/elbow can. Having a clunky elbow/shoulder for the rest of your life is not nearly as devastating as having a clunky ankle/knee, those are your wheels and you rely on them for a lot more than just striking!
yeah his opinion is smart and valid and i am a total ignoramus by comparison but i feel like there wasnt enough nuance here. its okay if some things are banned even if other legal techniques are “worse” . it just depends. knee problems are brutal, doesnt matter if getting knocked out is technically more brutal.
@@unique_mushroom I mean, give me a choice (admittedly as a layperson) between a broken/effed up knee or a goddamn traumatic brain injury and trust me, I'll take the effed up knee any day of the week. I'd honestly take two effed up knees over a brain injury any day.
And sure, it's absolutely okay to ban certain things objectively not as bad as a traumatic brain injury (small joint locks come to mind here, as I'd also take a broken finger over a broken brain any day. Hell, I'd take a broken finger over a busted knee any day. To be honest, you could break all 10 of my fingers if it would allow me to avoid a busted knee, and you already know where I rank a knee compared to a TBI). But the thing you've gotta remember is that combat sports are inherently dangerous. It's a risk both parties agree to, and vanishingly few fights end by knockout/TKO without some amount of serious physical injury. Seriously, apart from submissions and judge decisions, every single fight ends with a pretty serious injury to one of the two fighters.
But the thing is, the reason for a lot of the bans on particular things that aren't all that dangerous compared to a brain injury (think small joint locks) has less to do with the inherent danger of such a move but rather more to do with the relative entertainment value of the sport (as well as the possibility of a fighter simply ignoring such an injury). So, like, if you could break someone's finger with a joint lock, one of two things happens:
Either the fight ends by submission/medical decision, or, the fighter simply allows their finger to be broken to continue the fight. Think about what that would do to the sport. It would either make for extremely unexciting fights (as who wants to see a fighter taken out because their finger is bent too far back) or would result in excessive, unnecessary injury to the fighters involved (as breaking someone's fingers would just become a normal thing fighters would push through if it didn't result in a medical decision). So, you'd achieve essentially nothing with something that's extremely damaging to an opponent.
Breaking a knee like this, however, results in an immediate win. It's essentially equivalent to pounding a guy unconscious, and as such, the gain from such a maneuver is massive (as it's gonna be either a TKO or a medical decision). As such, it's a maneuver to end a fight, and has to be treated as such. Does it potentially result in long term consequences? Yeah, of course. But compared to other fight ending maneuvers, it's actually quite tame (again, refer instead to literally beating someone unconscious. As is so oft said in the TV show Archer, that's really bad for you, you know. You should really see a doctor...)
My point is, you've gotta realize this maneuver falls into the fight ending realm rather than unessesary damage realm. So the nuance given to things that cause unessesary damage needs to be weighed against the fact that it ends the fight immediately.
And of course, this wouldn't be complete without tackling the fact that, but, but, there are tons of immediate fight ending things that are banned because they're too dangerous. And yeah, that's true, but look at what they are. It's stuff like, breaking an opponent's neck a-la navy seal style, or breaking someone's spine, resulting in permanent paralysis, or gouging someone's eye out, resulting in permanent blindness. The level of danger required for a fight ending maneuver to be outlawed is radically higher than that for a simple nuisance maneuver that's too dangerous (or simply considered unsportsmanlike, think groin kicks, as objectively, probably the safest out of any fight ending maneuver, but who wants to see a fight where both competitors simply attempt to kick the opponent in the balls first? Though, it should be noted, kicking someone in the balls is probably the best possible maneuver in a street fight/military hand to hand combat situation, if you're able. It's instantly incapacitating, and while considered a "cheap shot," is far better than, say, being sexually assaulted/kidnapped on the street or, you know, having your throat slit by an enemy soldier that kicks you in the junk first)
wow that was brutal. great vid as always
Jesus that arm bar clip, Great video!
Doctor please start doing breakdowns of brutal fights more often, they are often informative and delightfuly entertaining 😀
I can tell you’re a fan of the sport keep up the content
Very helpful video as always. Extremely good points
I think a big differnce between the arm bar and the kick is an arm bar you could stop by tapping. Idk how i feel about banning it. Idk an move that causes that damage just instantly and uncontrollably
Cyborg Santos caught that knee from Michael Page about 5 years ago and it caused a depressed skull fracture which could have killed him. It’s a fight almost anything could happen.
@@marcdavis4509 i know. I honestly dont know 100% how i feel about banning it. I just think its different from arm bars and what not. Like we have not seen enough injuries from it as of now but i also have not seen a lot of people land it quite perfectly and if it becomes a trend i wouldnt be surprised if it would change.
Yes, I was surprised that he used the armlock as a comparison as well.
@@marcdavis4509 that’s not easy to do and is a circumstance that has only happened once throughout all of the years that mma has existed. You can’t compare a flying knee to an oblique kick.
@@cesaresaladandthespicycrou4080If it's done with intent I can't see it in any other way but as malicious because the cost of succesfully blowing out someone's knee to win a fight is too far. Accidents do happen though. I just don't think this is a good thing if this becomes a commonly used tactic to end an MMA match. Devastating and highly effective move.
Very very insightful doc, I appreciate your knowledge of sports especially your mma talks are very intriguing and puts a lot of light for folks looking for answers.
Yup I agree with ya on the knee stomp or oblique kick. It shouldn't be banned not yet. If this injuries happens more frequently and prominently in the future maybe then they can ban it. But for now they should wait instead of just jumping to the conclusions.
Always on point 👍🔥
If my kid is into sports medicine, I'm telling him about this channel! Love watching this!
Been waiting for this analysis, thanks
4:10 thank you for going into detail on this. I’m in the process of writing a story involving MMA with a fictional fight organization and want to subvert current MMA rules. That gives me a solid principle to consider in deciding illegal techniques.
yooo where can i read that
We can’t keep banning effective moves!! They need to go over their rules and see what moves are to dangerous or career ending and remove them. That way we can stop removing moves year after year.
The only reason it’s effective is because everyone hit by it needs surgery to walk the next day, which the fight 100% is not good enough pay to get surgery every single time they fight
@@scottjohnson926 lol yeah that’s why we need the right people to come together and go over what should and should be allowed in the fights. Just like the 12-6 elbow. Not saying it should be legal or not, but how it came to be illegal is just stupid.
@@LimitedCapacity ikr. I’ve seen dudes get their heads literally caved in. A bit of ligament damage ain’t no thing to most of them
Well said. I thought about trying out MMA but the the damage fighters sustain permanently is scary af.
Try it! You start out safely sparring until live action is something your able to protect yourself
The problem with this kick is not the technique, it’s how it’s used. The kick itself is not painful, you will never see a fighter quit by pain from an oblique kick. This kick is directly used to end a fight via serious injury, when put into a joint lock you have a way out, slap your hand on them or the mat repeatedly to prevent life altering damage. With knockouts it’s one and done once you’re out, fight over, you cannot sustain any more damage if the referee does their job. There is no technical advantage to this technique that a body side kick doesn’t provide in the fight besides permanent injury to the other fighter. It is a selfish technique used only to rise the rankings quickly by inconsiderate fighters. (And yes I know there are people who throw this kick lightly, however this is not an example of that)
How are they inconsiderate?
Well I don’t wanna be the “it’s fighting” guy because I strongly believe in the sport behind fighting but why wouldn’t you sacrifice someone trying to halt your career. Every win is very important to a fighter, and in this sport when you lose a fight it’s not easy to recover so I can see a lot of people adapting this as an easy way to get a lot of wins w/o having to be in the same danger as other fight Enders
‘a technique used only to rise in the rankings quickly by inconsiderate fighters’...... Jon Jones disagrees
It's combat man. What are you talking about? Injury is one method to end a fight.
Disagree with the "used to end the fight via serious injury" part. It is a spacing technique, the other fighter will get really worried about walking straight forward. Jones, Holloway and Yair use it really well.
The day the doc takes a kick like that is the day he can say that "This kick should not be banned".
THATS CRAZY!
It is a false equivalence to compare a controlled armbar (where one has time to tap out) to a sudden strike where (by the time impact happens, its too late to opt out before damage is done).
You should do a video on the foot stomp, to me it always seemed like a bit of cheep low skill move that could potentially cause a lot of damage to the small bones and joints in you foot and toes
Jorge? is that you?
@@kevinbissinger 😀😀😀
I was hoping youd do this video good your back
It can be a devastating technique when executed perfectly. You can’t ban certain leg kicks because they cause ‘too much or too severe’ damage. The aim of MMA is to cause as much damage to your opponent as possible while they try to do the same to you. You accept the risk before you get into the ring or octagon. I used to do tournament fighting but had to quit due to an acl rupture caused by a kick, to the knee. I should have taken out my opponent before he delivered the kick and that’s the end of it.
So what your saying is it should be completely legal to snap your opponents neck because “well he should’ve ended the fight before the snap”
There already exists multiple techniques that are banned because they are too dangerous. For that reason, the objective isn't for [absolute] harm otherwise MMA would have to go the way of catch wrestling, if not already banned. Careers would be 1 or 2 fights, with catastrophic endings.
Your way of thinking (based on your credentials) is the reason why fighters aren't the best at making some of these risk decisions -- hence throwing in the towel is done for (not by) the fighter.
Banning dangerous techniques is actually important for MMA to be a sport, otherwise we'd run real western duals as sport too!?
Nonetheless, the sport wouldn't exist without fighters who think like you
@@scottjohnson926 There are numerous submission techniques that put enormous pressure on the neck/spine and they are not banned.
@@kid-vf4lu A brain injury is more harmful than a leg injury, yet people are fine with getting brain damange but not knee damage, hence your whole point is invalid.
Excellent breakdown- thanks!
Literally nailed it. Great video!
Please go over harvey elliott's injury in liverpool vs. leeds
I miss the Flint Tropics jersey.
Also: bring back 12 to 6 elbows, we all know how dumb that rule is, but definitely don’t ban any others.
The problem is that this kick has almost 0 counter reaction, very easy to do/damage ratio. The probability of most of the things listed in the video occur vs you suddenly have no knee from this kick are much more unlikely. And it is silly to compare it to a submission where you can tap if you want to keep your knee! Rampage jackson talks how he still has problems with his knee after jon jones fight, and was much less damaged than this one. It should be banned.
Honestly, I hate the calf kicks too. I have a basketball player mind though and we specifically hate to see someone go down with any kind of leg injury. Especially the knee.
The armbar comparison was bad I think. While your arm is being grabbed and pulled you have the option to resist or tap.
With an oblique kick the fighter can’t tap out half way through the knee tweaking to save himself.
Great video thank you doc!
One of the major problem about oblique kick is the fact that the skill is solely designed to tore the acl.
It functions like the KNEE BAR WITHOUT GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO TAP OUT
You take the oblique kick? Your knee will get ruined permanently. you can't move like you used to.
Punching is a different matter. Punch causes the brain damage but the case is when a fighter have received hundreds of them during multiple fights.
But with just one proper oblique kick? it definitely ends your mma career. That is the problem.
Great video I just cited it in my college class.
You made an interesting point about oblique kick. I am not a mixed martial artist, but some time ago I used to practice sambo and judo, which are grappling sports. Once I got an ACL tear, when my opponent attempted a Ko Soto Gake (minor outer hook) throw on a training session. He done it with a poor technique. At the same time, I injured one or maybe two guys, when I was throwing them with O Soto Gari (Major outer reap throw). Knees were injured in both cases. But these throws are not banned neither in sambo, nor in judo. On the other hand Kani Basami (scissors throw) was banned in judo many years ago, because it this throw will be done improperly, knee damage is a very likely outcome. In sambo it is a legal technique and it is not banned (at least, now).
Even a reverse shoulder throw, that was a relativly new technique (it was invented in early 2000th by Korean judoka) was recently banned in judo as a too dangerous throw for your opponent's arm.
Maybe throws that induce more injuries than others should be banned, as well as oblique kick. Some techniques are more dangerous than others, but even with some basic stuff, that is done improperly an injury may be a result
That kick reminds me of Wade Garrett in Roadhouse. "God damn that hurts, doesn't it?"
Thank you Doc!!
That technique was perfection, no matter how you put it
Couple weeks later but been waiting to see this breakdown nonetheless
It's a hard one, while I agree with the logic that smashing someone's knee up is in many ways not as bad as the potential brain damage from head strikes, that isn't the basis of this. Groin strikes are banned, they are not as life threatening as head strikes, 12 to 6 elbow is banned (this one is odd for sure). But by the logic this kick should be allowed so should snapping fingers, or even biting etc. Being bitten by someone isn't as bad as brain damage. So the brain damage argument to me doesn't work. I think this should be banned for the same reason that groin strikes and finger snapping is banned.
MMA is a mix of the major combat sports. Tell me which major combat sports allow groin strikes, snapping fingers, and biting? A teep to the leg is legal in multiple types of kickboxing. Why don't they complain about it (and why don't we even see it much)? Because it has everything to do with stance. Some knees & kicks to the face have been more dating & quicker than this.
From my limited understanding the rationale of banning the 12 to 6 elbow was because it gave the tallest fighter too much of an advantage.
Hey Doc - Harvey Elliot, Liverpool, suspected broken leg in today's game
I can only listen to this video. Dr. Sutterer is made of tougher stuff than I am.
The best content channel. Thanks
I completely agree with you. Well put doc!
I had a knee injury a couple weeks ago. I was kicking a piece of wood over it was laminate wood. When I did my knee gave out and was in instant pain. Couldn’t walk hardly for a couple days still limp today. My dr checked my knee cap and said it seems fine. My concern is the lcl or whatever is on the outside my knee gives out on certain movements and it’s still hurting should I go back to my dr?
You are so damn good at what you do bro
You made me realize that, yes, the more immediately perceivable, as you said, injury is the one to the the knee, and that's why I also thought it might be worth banning, even though it's not as dangerous as brain trauma. I agree with the final point, it probably shouldn't be banned.
That said, let me just say something about the comparison to the various submissions you did throughout the video. The reason why there's a difference is that, generally speaking, the damage to the joints or ligaments during submissions is not as sudden as it is with the oblique kick, meaning you can tap out before you're seriously injured. Can't really do that during an oblique kick, you either escape unscathed or injured. That's the difference between submissions and this kick in particular.
Oblique kick is a kickboxer, submission I am more surprised it is not used more often
Well yes but let me throw you a counter argument, you throw a spinning wheelkick with the power of pinesol and your opponent blocks it, it can still shatter their forearm without warning much like an oblique kick. The thing is there's ways to counter it, right ways to block it, and even more ways to just avoid it. Check out what aldo does for leg kicks, vs what adesanya does. Different styles but both incredibly effective
With a single punch, placed right, you can shatter a guys jaw and make him drink through a straw for 3 weeks with wires keeping his jaw shut, with no warning. It's incredibly nuanced
that is not an oblique kick, that is a side kick.
They literally throw punches tht knocks ppl out cold. Tell me whats the difference between them?
Most classic martials arts techniques are vicious like this. Classic Bruce llee technique. It's MMA. Don't let rules ruin the sport
... this video took awhile. I clicked on the video asap after the card but... nothing. Oh well, good work as always!
I would love for you to cover a hit to Florida Panthers player Patric Hornqvist during a game against the Seattle Kraken. The hit was brutal and ended up with a concussion, not Hornqvist's first. This happen on 12/03/22 and he's now missing the rest of the season because of it. I would love for you to go through the mechanism of injury and give some insight as to how bad the injury would have to be to have him miss 60 or so games and could it be career ending. He's my favorite player so I really hope not.
I’m not sure if you do Euroleague basketball. But there was player who broke his wrist after dunking with 2 hands on a fastbreak. I’d love to see a breakdown/analysis of that. The team is Serbia Belgrade Crevna Cveska red star.
Amazing shirt, Doc!
Talking about leg injuries… can you make a video about Harvey Elliots injury🙏
How would you possibly enforce the ban on this kick?
sensible video 👍 an advert was banned the other day because it showed 2 people with tan lines.... the horror !
This is why I couldn't deny you a subscription your channel goes hand in hand with my other subscription.
ALSO your points with clips should end the calf kicks debate
The problem with some of the leg attacks and other joint targeting attacks is they may seem more humane or less dangerous than certain attacks on the ground, certain elbows or choke types , but they are punishing standup and are usually permanently damaging to someone's athleticism over their career.
If it's okay to force someone to have to undergo reconstructive surgery on joints or ligaments from a very difficult to avoid attack that is only intended to cause very specific injuries that you can't train your durability against. You can make yourself harder to knock out by having stronger neck muscles and having better rolls. You can't train your ligaments to be stronger and once damaged they are never the same.
Why is that any different from kicking someone in the groin or doing ground stomps to the body? I know we view it as more "dishonorable" but it's really just an arbitrary distinction. Getting kicked in the balls might mean you don't have kids, which if you want them might be a fate worse than death, but to some people losing the ability to walk due to shredding someone's knee apart.
I'm somewhat heavy handed, I'm one of those long wide torso slender guys , and I almost killed someone in an amateur fight with a punch to the temple. Why should I be allowed to do that?
All this nonsense about "dishonorable" and "unsportsmanlike" is totally arbitrary.
Yhe Oblique kick and heel hooks and all that shit is just low IQ damage sniping and honestly makes the sport harder and harder to watch as time goes on.
I'm not saying it will make someone a champion if they abuse it, but it is a cheap way to steal a fight in the mid-tiers of the sport. Up and comers get their careers ruined by some sniping knee or ankle attack it's just lame to be honest.
Can you put the full speed clip at the beginning of each video? I think that would put the injury in a little more perspective
No he can't do to copyright. Slow mo bypasses that
@@steshar2975 I thought if it was only a few seconds it’s fine by TH-cam
@@michaelchecco8745 you may be right. I'll have to Google that lol 😆 he might not Wana risk it though. I do know what you're saying though. I've seen some use like 7 seconds or under or something.
Great take on it.
Do you think there was a meniscus tear ? Maybe medial from rotation or possibly lateral from valgus compression ?
I know this would have it eventually I'm so glad you understand the fight game
Just to clarify, obligue kick to the thigh is totally different than striking directly str8 to the knee joint. All of those other examples you have awareness to protect vitals. Hands up, checking kicks. Hitting directly at someone's knee is different than an oblique kick to the thigh causing injury. That's why they ban twisting fingers to break and striking to the groin. I really hate strikes to the knee..lol.
Makes very good points here. It’s so hard to moderate fighting because it makes it not a real fight
Imagine if they banned checking because legs broke! Thanks for such an intelligent and informed opinion.
I knew that if i asked,this vid could come out,thank you Doc!
I think the real reason they'd push for it to be banned is to artificially manipulate the styles of players in the ring to be more brawley. If you can't do push kicks, it definitely puts more emphasis on boxing, or pushes them to change their stance. I hope that bureaucracy stays out of fighter's styles, and martial arts decisions. I also hope that fighters air on the side of caution because in that particular instance I think he could have easily finished the fight without destroying the guys knee.
I don't think this kick should be banned. It's a common technique used in muay Thai and you don't see many injuries there because of it. The solution to them being ineffective is a squared stance, with the weight on the back leg. It's that simple. While a squared, muay Thai like stance is rather inadequate for mma, the fact that it is a solution for the oblique kick just adds another layer to the ever evolving mma game. Also calf kicks become less of an issue in the MT stance. There are probably a lot more solutions for avoiding the effectiveness of a oblique kick that don't require switching into a MT stance, for example, not mindlessly rushing forward with your boxing. The kick shouldn't be banned.
Fighters need to simply adapted to the kick or just lose.
I think its a little ridiculous to compare submissions to out right strikes. There is a reason certain strikes are banned it's because you can do them quickly with very little to zero opportunity for your opponent to counter, stop, or defend themselves what so ever. You don't need to be a doctor to understand that forcing someone to tap out vs bending their knee the wrong way with a kick is completely different. Submissions take time and skill, virtually anyone can kick your knee the wrong way. That's not skill, that's not power, or timing it's just flat out too easy.
It's the ease of the move plus the damage that it entails that make certain things illegal. This is no exception, it should be illegal and has no room I'm the "sport" of UFC.
Thank you James franko
One note about the low calf kicks. I didn’t getting hit by low calf kicks isn’t bad long term since if you get it, it’s really muscles that get damage. But Weidmans and Silvas injury were from bone on bone from checked kicks, so should we ban checking leg kicks, nah
Arm breaker has the same effect but you have a choice of tapping out before your arm injures but there is no tapping out when you get kicked your leg is gonna snap in half in a instant
So in the end all kicks to the lower half of the body should be banned since there is a chance of breaking a bone with all of them ?
I guess going by your logic we should also ban kick to the body since they could easily break ribs or create permanent damage to vital organ like the liver ? (spoiler there is no vital organs in the legs)
This argument of yours lead nowhere except to the total destruction of the sport. Would you rather stop a sport for a year in order to let a bone recover and live to +80yo or die at 60 from repeated head trauma ? We could spin this around for hours.
I think your points on difficulty is a big factor, but I still think you're missing the main controversy. It's about targeting weak points.
The whole point of a fight under specific rules is to see who is stronger, not who can win cheaply with tricks. When you are not strong enough to overpower your opponent so you need to target, eyes, groin, or even joints, It's tends to show weakness as a fighter rather than strength. Submissions like the arm bar you showed do target weak points until the opponent chooses to tap, but it usually takes a lot of wrestling to get there.
These leg kicks are questionable because they don't give the opponent time to react and can seriously injure a joint that can't be protected. Why even have groin protection if you allow targeting a place that can be easily damaged? Even the high calf kicks could be seen the same way as they target a specific nerve, but if they miss, the side effect can break your own shin. Is that how winners should be decided? Of course checking is part of the game, but this ending isn't a real test of their abilities.
Or how about the rules for holding gloves or the cage? It's not immediately harmful but it's cheap tactics that doesn't display strength. No one wants to see a fight where the winner trains to be the sneakiest/most malicious rather than the strongest. Sport is not life and death, it's about who is best when everyone is healthy/fit.
Ultimately this is still just an opinion and maybe people enjoy it more with these moves, but it isn't ideal for the fighters to risk their lives on unfair tactics.
I have to say that if you are allowed to break an opponents arm with an armbar for not tapping this is just another method to end a fight. MMA is combat sport. I hate seeing a fight end early due to injury but causing an injury to your opponent is one method of ending a fight. Fun fact: they banned the 12 to 6 elbow after watching someone break blocks of ice with it.
You can tap out if you don't want your arm to be broken.
Khalil's opponent didn't have much saying in his knee ligaments being torn up
Only Sports Doc I love. You are great!
There is a reason tackling at the legs around the area of knee is illegal! You are only allowed to chop block on the line and it’s because there is usually little or less force applied to that area and the player has a chance to react
The only thing I don't like in the argument against banning the kick is the comparison to submission holds. The difference between the kick and submission holds is that in most instances, a fighter has the chance to tap to a hold before any serious injury, while with a kick, there's no chance to tap. One moment, you're standing, the next, you're screaming. There's not even any position to let a fighter really predict that it's coming.
Yes! He came through on my request!
The strange thing is that the commissions want to ban moves which aren't nearly as damaging or as severe as other moves.
this is the most technical kick i ve seen. beatiful.
Thanks doc great take
3:28 Because you can tap to an arm bar. You can't tap to an oblique kick. An oblique kick is like a "fast" submission that doesn't allow you to save your joint. Imagine an arm bar except instead of gradually pulling on it you just fling yourself as far back as possible. That's not sportsmanlike and it can end careers.
I totally agree with you, doc.
here asap mans lit💯🎯
Nice Raptor’s jersey 💯
Anybody knows the exact diagnosis? Can't find it anywhere.
2:30 - It can end a fighter's career
5:00 - The grey zone of bans
The difference between the oblique kick and the submission is that you have a chance to tap from the submission before it ever goes that far, but Tony refused giving him the chance to chose, the oblique kick doesn't allow that, also when it comes to an armbar the opponent has full control and can apply the pressure need to break it or not, there is a choice, when it comes to oblique kicks, you don't know if you threw one too hard until you threw one to hard.
When it comes to elbows, the difference is that no one actually wanted the 12 to 6 elbow to be banned but was bcs of the commission, and when the attack is throw we can see from a fight in one championship that the move could easily gauge out an opponent's eyes
Both of those calf kick injures were freak accidents that rarely happen but when an Oblique kick happened majority an injury is followed.
And again in the end when you compared the strike with the submissions they are given the chance to tap before it becomes severe.
Also, your forgetting the bigger picture, this move is allowed in all organizations, that means smaller regional leagues have to deal with it, and unlike the ufc and larger promotions they don't pay for the fighters insurance. So fighters in small regional shows that are hit by the oblique kick that do take these injuries' have to pay large sums of money for surgeries and even be forced out of their job for a while, and if they work during their recovery time they could injure their leg further. Ands before anyone tries to bring in leg locks or submissions like those these fighters all have the chance to tap before any serious damage is done and the fighter doing it has a much better control of the limb then
@@micahsamaripas4010 in small regional leagues you can still poke and injury someone's eye balls, so don't give me that ballsheet cakssukka
I agree with most of your arguments but there are major differences between the oblique kick and an armbar.
The oblique kick is much easier to throw out and has a much shorter execution window. The defenses are minimal if you are a fighter trying to move forward. Unless you are fighting Palhares, you normally have a window of time to tap to a submission. This is not true of the oblique kick.
I generally agree that knockouts are (potentially) more damaging than an oblique kick. However, you could also make the argument that an eye poke or groin strike can be less damaging than repeated brain trauma. As Bisping has shown, you can even continue fighting with one eye. It's hard to keep fighting when your brain stops functioning properly and you are knocked out by a light breeze as a result.
Then why do we ban eye gauges and groin strikes? As you suggested, it's because they are cheap in a way that most people intuitively understand. These are highly sensitive areas the are easily accessible from many positions. Striking these areas is not seen as a necessary part of the sport. You could put the oblique kick in this same category of "cheap and unnecessary." However, you simply can't have MMA without knockouts without losing a huge part of the sport.
I'm not advocating banning it, just playing devil's advocate.
Oblique kicks are not as 'cheap' they come with a price, they make the person throwing them on 1 leg and if they miss while committing to it will make them vulnerable. Adesanya does a really good job at pulling out his leg when he sees his opponent throw this kick. It is just another dimension that fighters have to learn, making this sport more complex
I'm against banning but really liked your reasoning
@@mpfrosty7419 cheapness is a scale that's hard to define but usually involves difficulty to use, difficulty to defend, and damage done. I think it's the fact that you can do a lot of damage with minimal effort (relatively safe compared to other choices, target is unguarded) that makes people question it. Nut shots have the same weaknesses (being on one leg, etc) that you described.
It's right in the grey area, which is why there is discussion. I think we can all agree that it's more dangerous than 12-6 elbows but less dangerous/cheap than eye-gouging.
Honestly, there needs to be more data collected. It's not that popular a move right now...
Not sure why that's called an Oblique kick, it's to the quad muscle. The Oblique is on the side of the midsection not the quad/knee. It's an effective tool and move in a MMA fight, there are a bunch of dangerous kicks, elbows and punches to certain areas of the body. It should not be banned.
I thought it was because of the angle at which the kick comes in (oblique angle), but other people say it's because there's a ligament in the knee called the 'oblique ligament'. It's one of those
Oblique as in the angle, not the muscles....
It's called this way because Joe Roan named it that way
I remember when the UFC banned 6 inch switch blades down to a maximum of a 3 inch switch blade. Deaths fell by 35%. So, some regulations are necessary.
Nice raptors jersey doc!
You also forgot the time Ferguson got heel hooked
That raptors jersey is sick I have the purple one but it’s too big
Easy way not to get stomped is keep distance or crowd him. Don't hang out where he can get you like this!
Pretty sure fighters going against Rountree are going to know he can do this and they won't hangout where Roundtree can take their knees out.
There's a reason why fighters tap fast to leg locks or other subs they know are going to destroy something.
Going "Night Night" is one thing, but ask Jacare how getting his arm snapped felt.
Fighters learn and adapt, or they don't last.