I've always been torn by this story. As children/teens who experienced awful things we couldn't escape from, my siblings and I fantasized about revenge! Made up elaborate stories of how 'they'd' pay. We couldn't protect ourselves and others didn't step in. We did leave home early... but the trauma never ended the way people assume it does. Like, now you're out you're free! The abusers live on to believe and convince others of their innocence, and sometimes abuse others, often they remain in your lives continuing to gaslight and torment. There is NO punishment for them. I know the power of wanting to wipe that smug smile off their face. When I first heard about the shootings (before the abuse allegations came out) I thought; those boys were very angry at their parents and it takes a certain type of horrendous upbringing to make children that angry.
Yes, it certainly does. I had a plan to get rid of my mother coz I couldn't take the abuse anymore. A solid plan. Ahhhh..... Abuse changes you. Forever. You don't just get better coz 12 ppl say you're innocent or guilty. Those brothers actions will forever be ruled by their emotions. As for Kim K. Well, Kim. They can go free, but they have to live with you. You still want them free?????!!!!
I believe Dr. Grande may be the only person on the planet to utter "unparalleled wisdom" while referring to Kim Kardashian, and showed "unparalleled restraint" in keeping a straight face while doing so.
This isn't an argument about the Kardashians - it's an argument about the fate of 2 brothers who did something herrible, out of genuine fear. I usually agree with Dr. Grande, but not in this case. Look at all the horrifying facts of the trauma they gave suffered - and statistics on what this does to children - and hear the testimony of all of the family and people who knew Jose. Killing isn't justified by any means - but they've done their time! They lived a terribly sad life - when you watch the documentary, it becomes clearer. The Menendez brothers deserve to have a chance at a normal loving life. My prayers are with them..
Did you hear recently members the group The group Manudo. And a family member came across a letter from one of the boys stating the abuse they endured. It was wrote long before the murders
They killed the parents because of rage due to horrific years of abuse. However they served their time in jail, the least they can do is give them parole and go from that.
@@briannacc3983 I’m well aware of their background but just because their parents provided them with a cushy lifestyle doesn’t mean they weren’t being sexually abused. We’ve learned time and again that being a wealthy individual with a good societal standing doesn’t mean they aren’t a monster behind closed doors.
My best friend growing up and her little brother were SA'd by their stepdad for years. BFF grew up to be infertile because of what he did to her. Little brother killed himself at age 17 to escape it. Step dad went on to reoffend and ruin multiple more lives until he finally, thankfully died of a heart attack in his late 50s. "Society" might not be okay with children killing their parents, regardless of what monstrous things the parents are doing to them, and then there's the rest of us. Put me on the jury.
Thank you from every single word! I think the same!! My friend was SA'd by her drug addict mum who pimp her own daighter to get drugs. Mother had been in the grave for years. She was killed by overdose but if my friend would had takek a law to her own hands I wouldn't have been angry.
The problem is they are not alive thanks to the brothers to give their side of it in a trial of SA. By unaliving their parents instead of going to police to accuse them of SA and leaving the home they unalived them. This will always and forever leave many people with the idea that it was a cover story, and rightly so. If they wanted retribution the way forward was gather evidence, have a place to go, and take it to court.
I do not doubt that the motive for these murders was revenge, but revenge for what exactly is the question. A higher range of ACEs, such as parental divorce, economic hardship, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse; neglect, etc., are correlated to at least 5 of the top 10 leading causes of early death in adulthood. In my case, my step parents were stable forces in the lives of my narcissistic, socioeconomically high-functioning, yet, Cluster B personality disordered parents. Unfortunately, out of guilt over the divorce of his first wife, the mother of his three sons, my step-dad spoiled my step-brothers rotten. For the most part, my step-brothers, who were not sexually abused but did have an alcoholic mother, ended up just like the Menendez brothers, my half-siblings reflected the more or less good to bad values of their parents, and my full siblings and I had to look perfect in comparison, which placed targets on our backs.
@@andyvanm1 Too many people saying the same damn thing about the "victims" for it to be just made up, don't you think? No way that man was innocent of sexual abuse - and if he was guilty, so was his wife, because everyone and their horse seems to have known about it, no way that "mother" didn't.
@@andreaplavkova1037 and OJ was innocent crowd say the same crap ... those spoiled bastards want out of prison ...and will say anything to get it. There was a reason why women weren't allowed on juries years ago and your reasoning proves it today.
Is a hypocrisy when we give value to things like battled spouse syndrome, but we think a teenager that grew up in abuse should be mature enough to know a better way out.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. Why isn't there a battered child syndrome. Also, maybe they felt they deserved to spend all the money as compensation for years of horrific abuse.
@peapod6747 there is. They're calling it "Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" or cPTSD. As I understand it (I'm a RN w/ practice in mental health), the difference between the two being that PTSD is often caused by a single traumatic event whereas cPTSD comes from traumatic events occurring in the person's life over a period of time. Like childhood. I believe the term "generational trauma" is worth researching as well. Tim Fletcher, LMHC, out of Canada does a really good job describing both of these concepts.
Dr Grande’s wife, nudging him in his sleep: “Honey! Wake up! You’re mumbling in your sleep again. ‘I’m not diagnosing anyone. This is only my opinion…’”
why/how is it deceptive and sad for Dr. Grande to have a wife? Which he does, he's introduced her. But your comment is bizarre and probably meant in an ugly way. What makes people like you make such strange and unpleasant comments when they could just keep scrolling and not show the world that they have issues! Geez!!! You sound like you're jealous somehow? Fame envy maybe? Sour grapes for sure though!
@@IntegrityMeansAllwow my comment didn't get posted because I called you out on what a bizarre comment you made yet utube will post your remark being derogatory to Dr. Grande in a most grievous manner. Anyway, you sound jealous and or ignorant . Just saying.
I disagree that being repeatedly sexually abused by a parent from a young age has nothing to do with a child's' development, actions in response, up to and including murder. A child learns what it lives. If indeed their father repeatedly sexually and violently abused them, a person who's supposed to protect them - not have intercourse with them - how is that not mitigating? And if their mother knew and did nothing to stop it - then she'd be guilty of child abuse as well allowing it to happen.
Because there is no real solid proof that it happened. But there is proof that their attorney coached them. There is proof that the attorney they hired specialized in these types of cases where murder was excused because they were allegedly abused. Even if Jose did do it it doesn’t excuse what they did to their poor mother
Yes. They’re profoundly damaged by their experiences. NO ONE chooses the circumstances that make them criminals so in that sense no one is guilty. Society should decide based upon who’s likely to offend again. Boys who killed their parents shouldn’t be released until older, regardless of the conditions (unless it’s legally self defense, which this was not). Having terrible things done to you and reacting with deadly violence makes you MORE risky for society, not less. The trauma doesn’t just disappear simply because the traumatizers are dead. Many kids who are sexually abused go on to molest kids. Should they be given leniency? I don’t think so. The law should protect children as a whole-even if a sexual abuser has an impeccable excuse.
I’m less than halfway through the video but I’d be surprised if Dr Grande says that sexual abuse has nothing to do with the murders. Being a child abuser doesn’t make you any more deserving of death. You’re just as deserving of legal protection as the innocent.
@@UnknownUnknown1 you did not post links regarding leslie abramson coaching them on sex abuse. I watched the trial when it was first shown and since. lyle and erik would be the greatest living actors and abramson would be the greatest acting coach ever. the proof of the abuse is from family members. that jose was capable of abusing a young man has been revealed by the former member of menudo. lyle and erik were hypervigilant with regard to jose's threats. being sexually abused by their father drove them to a shaky mental state. Todd got this one wrong.
Disagree. From a trauma-informed perspective the sentence should be re-evaluated. The original sentence was too harsh and there are countless reasons why.
Their father was a monster and the mother enabled it. The brothers don’t belong in prison for the rest of their lives. Everyone around them failed them.
She hasn't done much lately (got married, had another kid, high profile romance) so this puts her back in the public eye and part of the current Menendez zeitgeist.
Does that make everything she says wrong though? You shouldn’t care what a celebrity thinks about anything but you also shouldn’t dismiss everything they say. Being a celebrity is just not something that qualifies an opinion
The second trial was motivated by the prosecutors needing a conviction due to the LA riots, they needed something to redeem themselves. This is why they threw out evidence before the second trial. One big thing they didn't allow was testimony that their grandmother also stated she believed her son was a child rapist. There is a great online documentary explaining all this.
So much for blind justice. Also only reason OJ was freed was because the jury didnt care about Nicole since she was white. In the US the actual racism is towards whites.
I think you cannot underestimate the damage caused by one narcissistic parent, and a se* abuser. I think 30 years is long enough and they should be released. They should not however benefit financially from their crimes if that could be arranged under American Law.
@@wendybond2848 they were victims. They then would have served their punishment, why shouldn’t they be allowed to write books or do interviews for payment?
Dr Grande you should read the transcript from the first trial. There was a lot of evidence of abuse that was allowed into that trial that was not permitted in the second one. They ought to have been afforded the opportunity to use the evidence in the second trial. The judge made a legal error. It’s widely accepted that the average human brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age and that abuse and trauma can cause developmental delays. They were 18 and 21 at the time of the murder chronologically, but it is doubtful that they were actually that age developmentally. If a woman who has been exposed to abuse for many years feels she can’t escape why wouldn’t young adults who have been exposed to severe abuse suffer from the same trauma? That makes no logical sense. If a woman has grown up being abused by her parents and is told over and over again that her father owns her and there’s no escape the court accepts that as a mitigating factor so why shouldn’t be accepted for men? The second judge ought to have allowed that evidence in. They were not permitted to make full answer and defence in the second trial and now there’s a third victim who has come forward. There were corroborating witnesses to physical and mental abuse in the first trial. They weren’t permitted to be called in the second trial. You aren’t any less abused just because the abuser is rich and powerful. They very well could have believed that they could not escape him and they were probably right considered their father’s connections. Why is it so difficult for men to believe that boys who have been abused for years suffer just like girls do? I’m sorry Dr Grande but I do not agree with you. The abuse evidence ought to have been allowed in at the second trial. The judge made an error in law. I’ve read both trial transcripts as they were available on westlaw when I was a law student. They were not even permitted to use the abuse as a defence to mitigate sentencing. That was a clear error in law and a violation of their right to make full answer and defence. I’m tired of men’s rights being violated by people who believe that men don’t have feelings. I’m tired of men being abused and it being permitted by the system. Abuse is abuse and trauma affects men every bit as much as it does women.
@@diandie1838left? C'mon, they were the sons of an entertainment mogul. If.they had left, they would have been found very easily. José Menendez would have moved the entire LAPD and even the FBI to look for his "lost boys".
A broken clock is right twice a day. Kim may be wrong about much, but she is using her platform for a good cause. I believe the Menendez brothers. They were victims of horrible abuse from both parents. They served their time,, set them free
Say they get released in March 2025 - 35 years after their arrests. That's 17.5 years per murder, when many could argue that it was manslaughter, that only requires an 11 year sentence at most per victim. I guess it comes down to "how much more time do you think they should serve before their debt to society is paid?". At most I'd say 40 years but 35 is a pretty good slice out of their adult lives - three and a half decades of it to be precise. I became an adult in November 1989 so have not even been an adult for 35 years yet. The mitigating factors are that it was a parricide, the evidence of abuse and major character flaws in Jose and Kitty, the brothers' absence of violence before and after the crime, extreme youth of the offenders, excellent rehabilitation and peer reviews of their long period in jail while under a "life without parole" sentence, support from 24 family members (a very rare level of support) and court and jury judgements that the murder was not for financial gain (1993 Grand Jury) and not even technically a murder (2 x hung juries). And being in their mid-50s now the likelihood of recidivism is very close to 0%. I support the release, after no later than 35 years served.
Hi Dr Grande - maybe try to get in touch with Dr. Ann Burgess - she's a legend and a pioneer in the study of how serial abuse affects the minds of our children and adolescents. The statistics are well researched and backed up. Thanke
There was hatred in their killings. If they wanted the money, they could have achieved a much less brutal death. And the hatred most likely comes from the years of abuse they endured.
@@Chatillgbtno other instances in their lives demonstrate your conclusion. They wanted to end their abuse. The undying support for a man who SA’d his children is so weird to me.
@@GC-pq6vm it’s a lie.. if they were, their parents would never have gotten them a shrink in the first place.. They would have also brought it up before making the confession to their shrink.. and after confessing that they murdered their parents they would have stated that they were SA’d as their reason. They used SA as a get out jail free card and it didn’t stick because people see the BS.. if anything they probably got beats like every kid in the 80s lol for being bad ass kids and because they were spoiled imo
I heard a slightly different story to Dr Grande. I read the therapist went directly to police himself after Eric threatened to kill him. Eric's own words, his threats were the catalyst and legal and morally right thing to do in that situation. The therapist didn't break the privacy and confidentiality of the Dr and patient. Nor did he go to the police... He held his oath and silence. For quite a while. Until Eric MADE him break it due to a very credible threat to his life. Ironically it was both brothers own words that got them caught 😅 Lyle's original confession. Erics threat saying he "has" to kill him to save them both. Eric literally broke the confidentiality agreement himself, basically forcing the therapist to speak to the cops. .
@@missjustice2730 It was actually the woman with whom the married psychologist was having an affair who eavesdropped on the conversation who went to the police.
Honestly, it’s hard to imagine someone thinking straight if that person is being sexually abused by his or her own father on a consistent basis. It’s easy to say: “just leave the home,” but that’s not how it works in abusive families. The siblings were probably full of hate and bitterness towards their father and, especially, mother (who never protected them from the abuse). Did they premeditate the murder? Certainly. But what else could be done? Go to the police? Their father was an influential man, who would have believed them? Their mother would probably have stood by their father’s side and called them liars. Even their cousins who knew about the abuse took YEARS to admit their knowledge in public. The singer from the Menudo family took over 30 years to talk about it publicly. The question is: would the Menendez brothers have commuted murder if they hadn’t been abused? I don’t think so. Last question: if they were women, would popular opinion have turned against them as they did because they were men? I doubt. Would anyone demand that they serve life sentences for killing a father who sexually abused them if they were women? I doubt it.
@@missmerbellai dont think that they would have been safe just by leaving. The father would have found them and the abuse continue, how it always happened. In their psichological situation the only iption was murder..
I understand what you are saying. I do think understanding such bizarre abuse and the mother’s complicity is beyond the average person’s scope. At the time, OJ had just gotten away with murder. People were needing accountability in the justice system. I really think this may have had a profound effect on the outcomes of their trials.
I disagree I don’t think you can expect young adults that were abused and controlled on every level to make good decisions. Kitty was informed twice by family of possible sexual abuse and did nothing! Dr Grande did you ever think that perhaps the children had been emotionally killed already? Of course it’s better to go to authorities but still decades later victims of sexual abuse don’t easily report it. These poor souls spent the first half of their lives abused and the second half in prison it’s their parents that should have been imprisoned. These boys now men will never know their full potential if only they had had parents that loved them.
They should definitely be released, life sentence without parole is not justified in this case. They are not a danger to the public, they won't re-offend. They were horrifically abused, self preservation is a human instinct.
After more than 35 years in prison, many might say that's enough, especially since in most Western countries, they would have been released for good behavior by now. If they were sentenced today, it’s unlikely they would receive life sentences, as the sexual abuse allegations would be considered in their sentencing.
If they left, they would not get support. If they went to the authorities, they would be cut off. Jose used his money to control the people around them and groomed his children when they were 6 years old. For a couple of young boys who felt trapped, killing their parents was the only way to get out of the situation- and get the money. Also, the fact that Kitty was miserable and stayed in the marriage was proof of Jose's control over everyone. They were screwed-up kids because of the abuse; what their father did to them was gross. Maybe not a popular opinion here, but they have paid their dues, and are not a threat to society.
Yours seems to be the popular opinion, but right or wrong this video got views and engagement and he didn’t have to cause controversy for himself and going the other way would lose viewers from people who don’t want to think about things where this way those who disagree are sticking around to discuss their opinion. Don’t assume that people who have a title are to be worshipped or that you’re on the opposite side to the majority just because your opinion is different to a guy who makes videos This is entertainment packaged as an analysis
@MistyAir ...they both were big strong young 6ft men ...they wasn't little boys...when they deleted their father and mother ...they both were monsters and conniving...I pray they stay in prison 4 life 😤
I think they should go free, both parents were involved in the abuse, for your mother to watch your father raping you and do nothing, how do you process that as a child, they were victims, they are not a threat to the public, I think they have suffered enough
@@opencurtinA third SA victim of him has come forward. And in the entertainment industry he was sharing circles that have been exposed for CP/child molestation and predatory behaviour. Jose Menendez was the 80s P. Diddy.
What leads me to believe that there was truly abuse and that they were victims is that such a heinous crime was committed by 2 people at the same time, so they either suffered similar experiences (sex abuse) that messed them up badly and lead them to that or they were just psychopaths from birth (genetically), the former seems more likely. In other words- what is the likelihood of 2 young kids commuting the same crime w/out a significant reason they both experienced?
Yeah, pretty much this. If one of your children kills you, maybe they were a bad egg. If more than one of your children kill you, you are probably the bad egg.
One of my major accomplushments in my 80 years of life so far is that I have NEVER seen a single epidode of the Kardashian show and wouldn't recognize any of them if they were in the same room as me.
With c-ptsd, their feeling they might be killed that night doesn't need to make sense. They had it, so acted on it. Im not shocked neither brother mentioned the SA at the time. Sure, they lived it up after their crime. I think most of us would at that age. I think they need released. The man SAed by Jose who came forward is an especially compelling witness who backs up both brother's claims. Is society at risk? No. They killed who needed to go. Could they have simply left that night? Again, no, the c-ptsd had them prisoners. You absolutely cannot comprehend what that's like to live daily unless you've been there. Dr. Grande's analysis is spot on, but if you flip the coin, I believe there's another side equally as valid. These boys really did get put through hell growing up.
I don't care about Kim Kardashian and didn't even know she was rooting for them but I support the Menendez brothers and I agree they should be set free. Just listen to the testimony of the Menudo guy. Jose was a monster and his wife too.
So many people in the comments seem to think that if you believe the brothers should remain in jail, then you are somehow justifying or ignoring the abuse. These 2 issues are not mutually exclusive. I think the brothers suffered and it’s beyond tragic what happened. I also think they need to remain in jail.
Why is it okay to accept, " Battered Wife Syndrome" is real and give leniency. People dont say, "oh she have just left, life without parole for you!!". People have empathy to DV victims. Why is there no "Battered Child Syndrome"? Why is that sooo hard to believe? Should childhood abuse not be a factor?
They were adults. They could have left. Instead they premeditated killing their parents. Like Dr grande said, both things can be true at the same time. Even if they were abused, it doesn’t justify MURDERING your parents. There’s plenty of people who are abused and they don’t go on to be killers
There is. It's called Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome or CPTSD. It stems from a child or adult receiving or being exposed to trauma/abuse over an extended period of time.
@@cassandraotroy6325 I keep seeing these comments that mentally they were children. That assumption and diagnosis was made by a psychiatrist that the defense paid for. They literally paid him to say what they want him to say. It does not make it definitive fact. Legally they were adults and that’s all that matters
It’s frankly a bit disturbing that someone like Dr. Grande with a strong background in psychology and mental health disorders would not take into consideration how SA is extremely debilitating to development and could lead to extreme behaviors.
It’s one thing to learn about SA and C-PTSD, and another to have lived it. Seems like he can’t imagine what it must have been like for a child to have been raped and terrorised by the dad for 12 years with no end in sight.
@sagba9473 I think the issue is not about killing or not, it's about the extreme punisnment they recieved. It should have been considered as manslaughter and not murder. I personally think after 34 yra in prison they have already paid for their crime.
Dr Grande also said in another video that their killing of Kitty was not defensible. I strongly disagree. She was complicit in their terrible abuse. She likely also suffered, but as a response to her sons telling her what was going on, she told them to be quiet. She was her own kind of monster. She did nothing at all to spare her own children and whatever her motives, it makes her a part of the abuse.
They were abused in the worst way all their lives. Going by their 'adult ' age while ignoring their emotional age is irresponsible. The mother knew and didnt stop it, because SHE was motivated by money over protecting her children. They did their time, more than most. This is a rare time that id be fine with their release
One of the reporters who attended the first trial said it best: "If you think they should have life without parole, you weren't in that courtroom". Eric in particular gave such ghastly testimony in such a compelling way that one reporter said he would have had to be as skilled as Marlon Brando to have been acting and making that up. Having read Paul Mones' book called "When a Child Kills", a case study of eight children who committed matricide/patricide, I would say that the brothers fit that mold. The killers in that book, all abused of course, believed without a doubt that their father or mother was going to kill them. They all concluded after their incarceration that prison was better than home. Psychologists testified that the brothers had the emotional intelligence of 8-year-olds who would have considered it unthinkable that they could survive by just leaving home.
The 911 call was pretty compelling too yet it was a complete lie. It just means they're good actors, which psychopaths tend to be.Also, the first trial ended up in a hang jury (couldn't reach a unanimous verdict) so I guess by the logic of the journalist those jurors who found them guilty weren't in the courtroom?
@@jocelynastheart2732 How about you stop being a psychopath? Only a psychopath would not try to even empathize with children who were brutally raped by their father on a consistent basis.
They couldn't have just left the mansion or called someone for help because their father was very influential and could hurt them. Their father was a vindictive man and even their mother had suffered his abuse. I don't think it is as easy as just walking away or asking for help. The only other 'help' they accessed was that unethical Oziel. Erik did tell his cousin that he was being abused. The allegations of child sexual abuse is compelling because it led to a hung jury for the first time and the boys were spared from the death penalty. Also, their relatives to this day corroborate the allegations of sexual abuse. I believe with the new evidence available, their case deserves to be taken up.
If what the brothers say is true, and their responses together with others accounts appear to back this, I would have no quarrel then, with the justice they served the parents.
Thanks for video about this, It was suggested that both parents abused them, with father primarily. They were abused as little children and was horrific. They at least deserve a new trial so that all the evidence can be exposed. Also, was suggested that the father threatened their lives. But nobody knows everything unless the evidence is allowed to be presented.
Also, wondered Why didn't they leave home? Were they threatened if they did leave, even as they got older? unless all the evidence is presented, nobody knows. Still, they had to pay the consequences of murder which is wrong, regardless.
@@ginnyn9660 Until you have lived a life of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse, it's very hard to understand the trauma that it entails. IF what the boys testified to (in their first trial) is all true, they grew up completely abused their entire lives and felt threatened by their father in every way imaginable. They also allegedly told others about the abuse, and they were not believed.
@@ginnyn9660 The son who was being r@ped was not allowed to leave the home to go to college, the father said that son had to stay home, though he was 18 (and assumedly continue to be r@ped)
I am shocked by your lack of compassion and insight in this case. I agree with you sometimes, disagree equally as often, but in this case I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, society is becoming less empathic all the time. 51 witnesses testified about what a horrible person their dad was and how abused the boys were.
Bottom line, if all your children grow up to be murders by the age of 18, there is something really, really dark going on in that family that the PARENTS are responsible for. They were the true monsters.
@@xKarenWalkerx Not a big difference there. It was an extremely violent overkill that she ordered her bf to do which was murder and she was present for it. She also robbed her mother afterward which shows a financial motive. Her case was treated very sympathetically due to her gender and she also had no sexual abuse. She did nothing to better herself during her short time in prison and she refused all therapy. She has done zero advocacy since as she promised to do just more attention-seeking and narcissistic grifting which society has fully accepted.
Dr Grande, you said the boys could have left because they were old enough to just walk away. You should know better than anyone that abuse like that causes a psychological prison that people who haven’t experienced can’t understand. Were they physically old enough and able to just leave home? Yes. But after years of SA, psychological manipulation and threats, I don’t think they felt they could do that. Whether that’s logical or not, it’s what they were groomed to believe. Personally I think they felt they had no other choice but to take matters into their own hands, knowing that fighting an influential person like their dad would be futile. In general I don’t think we can just let society go taking justice into their own hands but I think certain situations can create a grey area and in that grey area of this particular crime, my compassion causes me to cut them some slack as I believe they have suffered enough. I do believe they were victims. I just don’t think you can fake the emotion they displayed. It was very raw. And as for spending the money….I’m sure they were feeling lots of intense emotions including relief and guilt which could potentially cause someone to act impulsively and/or partake in some therapeutic activity such as “retail therapy”. People use all sorts of dysfunctions as a band aid.
Ummm, no. Much like her stand on the moon landing, she's wrong about this as well. P.S Since when did any of the Kardashian's become experts in anything?
I'm not a fan of the Kardashians at all, BUT Kim wants to follow in her father's footsteps and she went to law school. It seems to me she is taking this very seriously.
The Menendez brothers Aunty testified that they were both tortured from a young age. Erik frequently requested lemon juice and ketchup as a child and teenager as it was the only way to remove the taste of his father's seamen from his mouth. Their father had also threatened to kill them before his death after Lyle found out that his brother was still being abused. The brothers were clearly under duress and trauma bonded to their parents. They should have been charged with manslaughter and released from prison. It sounds like Dr. Grande has little experience with individuals who have been sexually abused and has difficulty understanding their behaviour.
Jose and Kitty were MONSTERS!!! Jose rap**his sons and Roy from Menudo. The boys told their young relatives about the abuse. Also, Kitty turned a Blind Eye to Jose's Abuse and SAed them herself! These Brothers experienced so much Trauma. Free Erik and Lyle!!!!
Pls google the case of sylesnar seah in Singapore. He killed his father and was let off with a much lighter sentence. The court is sympathetic and understands the impact of abuse.
I don’t think they killed for money. The killings were brutal which showed the intensity of Their anger and hate. It was a very passionate murder. For both parents, which shows they hated both of them equally. Even Kitty’s sister said she can’t forgive her because she never protected those boys. So even with some premeditation, the crimes were a result of intense anger and an attempt to gain their power back. Unfortunately I do t think anyone would have believed them if they told on their dad. Every adult had failed them All their lives. They thought they only had each other and no support from the outside.
@@5675492 I'm not defending them because murder is not a course I would have taken, but when I left my parent's abusive home for the first time when I was 19, I had a period of a year or two where I felt extremely happy, almost celebratory, and life was SO great. It's finally over! I was out partying, making friends, very happy and doing great at school and work. You wouldn't think I was abused. I was on top of the world, I was free! Like, "this is it! This is the life!" And then the C-PTSD symptoms started to slowly kick in... and then in my thirties I was like, ohhh crap, I'm mentally ill. So I kinda get it. I mean, they were acting like two kids who were suddenly free with a lot of money more than two criminal masterminds who needed the money for some specific mega-investment. Not that they weren't criminals, but not exactly masterminds.
Erik and Lyle should be free at this point, there are ppl who did gruesome things to innocent ppl who are free. To condemn them for life is ridiculous to me. The court system found a way to justifiy john thomas sweeney strangling his gf for 5 mins, her life was over at 22 and he only served 2 years!! Thats it! Not mention hed been abusing her for months beforehand, covering her in bruises! Erik and Lyle as wrong as it is went after the ppl that hurt them. They didnt take their anger out on a girlfriend who had nothing to do with the ab-se they suffered as children like John thomas sweeney did. They went after the ppl who hurt them.
I am in NO doubt the father would have killed them if they started to tell. Cause he threatend them!!!!! And the proof of molestation in the court case are sickening!!!! It is easy to judge, for everyone that has never experienced anything like what these brothers did.
Are you talking about at 9:20? I think he was asking that to cover everything for us viewers. For example, you may not like that question but other people might have that question. And that’s why I believe he asked it. I could be wrong though. I’m no guru.
I have to disagree. I think they should be released. Everyone has an opinion but if you haven’t been sexually abused then you have no idea what the brothers were thinking or how they processed what was happening to them. Everyone says they could’ve left but their dad was literally involved of every aspect of their life.
If there's definite proof that his parents were doing that stuff to their kids the dad was severely molesting them while the wife turned an eye then yes they deserve to be released from prison they've done enough time the parents got what they deserve they should should have done no more than 20 years
The mother was not innocent. She was fully aware of the abuse, was present as it happened and enabled it. To keep HER fancy lifestyle she pimped out her children to her husband.
These were two adults that had , no jobs and a wrapsheet. I wouldn’t trust what they had to say. Even their own psychiatrist deemed they were sociopaths. They were both adults. Idk life was so bad they could have left and made a life of their own. They chose to stay. They belong in prison right where they belong. Regardless if the ‘ weren’t that great they didn’t deserve to die and in the way they did as well. They premeditated their parent’s murder. Letting them go would send a message to others that it’s okay to murder your parents if you don’t like them. Just no. They are a threat to society. Period.
In my opinion the brothers are guilty of murder, which required a long sentence. I believe the abuse occured and can imagine their emotional ages at the time of the crime would have been very stunted as a consequence. However, a lifetime in prison seems disproportionate. The abuse they suffered should have been a mitigating factor
I truly couldn't care about Kim Kardashians opinion. However I have always believed them having heard the testimonies of themselves and others. I can say as well that I have worked with complex trauma and CSE in teens and young adults, and from some of the intricacies they testified to that they were abused. Lyle and Erik do not say " it was justified" at all. They say they acted out of fear, which with their diagnosises and the childhood that they had is very likely they did see the situations differently. Trust me, when people suffer from complex trauma throughout their lives, people can react very differently to how other people can react. A single smell, sound, image can cause wild emotional responses and they can interpret hostility in situations that arent necessarily there. Both of their parents were killed in the den, they didn't chase her around the house. If it was premeditated, then why not do it with handguns, in beverley hills, when people would hear. Why not wait till they could get handguns? Why not stage a robbery? A break in? It was a crime of passion quite clearly. Jerome oziel was having an affair with his patient who he asked to listen in at the door in order to blackmail both brothers. When Erik first saw Oziel he was reporting everything they discussed back to his father. Lyle and Erik's testimonies have never changed. Kitty allowed both brothers to be abused by their father as well as physically and emotionally abusing them also. Pretty much their entire family want them released including jose and kitty's siblings? In fact nearly all of them were witnesses of different types of abuse they had seen.
I know this lady now in her sixties, her father sexualy abused her since she was 11 up to the time she was 18 when unexpectedly he dropped dead from a heart attack, this is only the short part of the story. The brothers should be released. it's been 35 years
1. If they want to eliminate the father? Why would they kill their mom...chase her around the house.... ? 2.... Spending money right away? They have a very unique way of grieving... 3... Even if their father was guilty..... Why not leave the house.... 3. They knew exactly what they were doing...... BS... Parents were raising criminals and were committing petty crimes......
Talk to any survivor of childhood SA where the mother was well aware of what was going on and ask their opinion on this. It should be pretty clear why they went after their mother then.
I understand... I was a victim of child abuse .... I do understand what you're saying.... But to kill them ..... Many people may have been abused... Do they end up becoming killers ? These brothers were troubled since beginning n became criminals and were spoiled..
To top it off, they were 19 and 20 ... they should have left the "abuse". Many a 14 year old has run away from such abuse. It makes me chuckle that these two adults cried victim when their real intention was to live the baller life and get the inheritance without a moment's delay. Makes me chuckle and shake my head at the people sympathising with them and wanting to have them be released...
I rarely disagree with Dr. grande. However, hearing them cry on the stand was believable. Dad was a POS and even though they were adults they still experienced the long time abuse. Mom didn’t protect them. Moms are supposed to protect. They have served 35 years.
Wow, you’re easily fooled by a couple of spoilt sociopaths, As you say they were adults , they had other options , there was no excuse for the savage way they murdered their mother , even if you could argue the murder of their father was justified
@@tillyt4054 The mother's own family including her sister and nieces have said they don't forgive her for what she did to her sons. You people are so ignorant.
Just my thoughts. If the evidence shows that sexual molestation over and over within the Father's so-called normal lifestyle then they have served enough and maybe too much time because they were in prison with such a dispicable father. As an eight year old, my neighbors had this same stuff going on and I'm glad I was able to Keep away from it all~ I am biased. Emotion played a role...anger and hatred came to a head.
Many well renowned therapists do NO agree with Dr. Grande on this. Nor do many people, such as myself, who have experienced SA or know people who have. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it, but I don't share it.
I don't appreciate the focus placed on Kim in the title and contents of this video. The jab at her completely undermines the severity of the issue. This case is complex, and deeply upsetting. The abuse is alleged, yes, but there is a huge amount of evidence to support it. The Brothers need to be held accountable for their actions by all means, but the serious topic of male sexual abuse is completely overshadowed by the use of Kim for comedic relief. If you want to call Kim out for her 'passion' for prison reform do it. But not at the expense of sensitive issues like this.
Dr. Grande while being eloquent, witty and intelligent is also primitive and sadistic. He like many psychologists went to the field of psychology, to try to help himself with his problems. I don't know how it works for him ... In the case of Menendez brothers it is clear that the killings were done with hatred towards the parents and the mother was enabler of mistreatment. There is such a continent as Europe with many different countries. In non of the European country regardless of severity of the crime the brothers would spent more then 30 years in prison , and this is even without apparently strong mitigating circumstances of the case. Dr. Grande excepts that Brothers could have been victims of sexual abuse and still need to rot in prison for more then 35 years. Dr. Grande is at the very least both sadistic and primitive
I see i am in the minorty, but ive seen evidence that the father was a horrible person. And sure going to the police is much different for the rich to go free these brothers have served enough time. Any sicko doesn't deserve to get out again. Time for Kitty has already been served after all she was aware for the abuse
Also important to note: in the few days leading up to the crime, the father and mother learned that Erik told Lyle that his father was still abusing him. After finding out, the parents reportedly threatened the boys. I think it makes a lot of sense that the disclosure of abuse bookended the crime. Calling for help would mean disclosing not just within the family, but without. The situation was already incredibly dysfunctional and volatile--once Jose knew that the boys were giving voice to their traumatic experience, he perceived *them* as a threat to his reputation (and something he would have to *deal* with). Just want to offer a rebuttal to the notion that the parents were not threatening "doesn't make sense." With fuller context, it does.
Yeah, it's no coincidence (nor surprising) that Lyle was the one who served the finishing blow to Kitty. There was definitely some unfinished business there. Unlike Erik, Lyle's descriptions of the SA suffered by his mother were very vague and simplistic, not going into detail much. I suspect he didn't let us in on the whole story.
@@A.M-b8t He might've felt like he was more "in control" because he was entering his teenage years. So there's a different kind of shame. Also, it was the only time KItty was "adoring" was when he was being abused. So it was his only access to motherly love. To name it for what it is (terrible abuse) might not be something he can handle. I can't even imagine that level of betrayal.
No, Gypsy did not commit the act of murdering her mother. She may had planned it, but someone else committed the act. Both of these brothers committed the act by blowing the heck out of their parents with riffles at close range., Gypsy served her time. These guys have not.
Everyone says “they were adults, they could’ve left.” We have to remember that the most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they try to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling. Murder wasn’t the answer but they’ve served their time.
No they didn't serve their time. The sentence was/is life WITHOUT parole!!! They are exactly where they should be, a jury of their peers found both guilty and spared them the death penalty!!
There is not one iota of evidence to support the contention that the father sexually abused anyone. The so-called bombshell letter, written not when the brothers were children but just months before the murder, just supports that the murders were planned way ahead. And the Menudo guy's story has been proven to be full of holes. He even told several people that he was hoping the ensuing publicity would jump-start his failed career. I do not believe the brothers were ever sexually abused. Lyle was and is a sociopath ( ask his girlfriends, and look at his police record BRFORE the murders) and Eric was a sad follower. The triggering event here was that Lyle, a career playboy who failed at everything he tried, found out that his father was disinheriting him. He then murdered his parents in cold blood and tried to erase the will.
I disagree with Dr Grande on this. They have served enough time. Those parents tortured them for so long that they were mental enough to commit such awful crimes. The money is gone, so they can no longer benefit from that, so just let them live some of their lives at least
Both of them are pathological liars!! Lyle threatened to kill the doctor and asked his ex-girlfriend to lie for him, before her testimony. This is another reason why he didn't testify during their last trial.
Society shouldn’t be OK with two adults planning a double homicide and a bunch of nitwits on social media who watched a Netflix series lining up to excuse MURDER!
After a 28 year career in law enforcement and corrections I can tell you this… The passage of time changes the narrative… give it enough time, the most notorious criminals imaginable can transform themselves into victim$. For nearly 30 years, that’s what I saw….
I’m sorry but the only reason they were even convicted is because the sex abuse wasn’t covered in the second trial. Jurors have said if they knew they never would’ve convicted the brothers. I agree that they should’ve just left the house since they were adults, but my father hasn’t sexually abused me for 15 years. I don’t know what was going through their minds
Anyone who is ok with having the brothers released should be equally ok with having them as roommates. What's that you say ? No ? Why not ? These poor boys are perfectly harmless victims of abuse so having them in a couple of bedrooms down the hall should not be an issue.
Something wasn't right with that family. We will never know if SA took place, but assume for a minute it did. Should they die in jail? I don't think so. I hope they get out, and I would not be afraid of them. That home had some kind of bad juju. It's now gone, and the men are different people all these years later.
I have to disagree. Manslaughter would have been a far more appropriate charge. There is ample evidence that they were abused, that their father was in fact a monster, and that their mother let it all happen. Could they simply have left? Yes. But did they think they could? That there was any hope that their father would not find them? That's the issue. Is what they did wrong? Yes. But it wasn't murder. At most it was manslaughter. And then there are the legal issues. A therapist secretly recording their patients in order to hand those recordings over to police is not only illegal but it should render that evidence and any evidence discovered as a result of it, including statements made by the brothers, inadmissible. I think the case caused a lot of parents to undertake a very brief period of very uncomfortable self-reflection. They wondered whether their own children would one day turn on them for all the bad things they have done. And instead of growing from that self-reflection and becoming better people - and better parents - they chose to demonize the brothers instead. And let's not even get into the fact that if they were sisters instead of brothers they never would have been convicted in the first place. They should be released. Nothing more is served by them continuing to be imprisoned.
@@tonyaparrish2308 Not if circumstances mitigate the alleged premeditation. Might I point out that owning a firearm for self-defense is a constitutional right and thus not evidence of anything. And under California law if a person kills another in an honest but unreasonable belief that the use of deadly force was necessary for self-defense they may be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. Given the circumstances there is ample evidence that the brothers believed that their parents were a threat to their lives. Was this in fact the case? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Did the brothers have the option of simply running away? Yes. But did they believe that that was actually an option given years of abuse and extreme control that their parents had subjected them to? I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that they genuinely but mistakenly thought that it wasn't an option. Which makes it a case of imperfect self-defense. Which makes the killings voluntary manslaughter not murder. Which is a maximum of 11 years. Even with two sentences running consecutively they would have been released years ago.
@@enjoystraveling Yes. But did they actually think that was an option? That's the issue here. If this was a case of a woman who was abused by her husband for 20 years and fearing for her life killed him would you be saying that she could have just gotten on a bus? I doubt it. I'm not saying they are innocent. What they did was wrong. But there are mitigating circumstances and under California imperfect self-defense is a partial defense. It lowers murder to voluntary manslaughter. Which I think is what should have happened. They still would have got two 11 year sentences. So it's not like they would have gotten away with it. But it would have been more appropriate. There's a lot of sexism at play in this case.
The brothers robbed neighbors and stole from family and the father was always covering for them, too late the father realized by doing this he put himself in danger.
We need to stop a) coddling spoiled parent killers and b) listening to any of the Kardashian family about anything ever at all. Also, Kim Kardashian can write?? 😮
I agree completely, with one exception... she certainly has to be an expert on maintaining an a$$ five times the expected girth of an average person. I'd love to know her secret to keeping her body fit and trim while maintaining an a$$ normally found on a morbidly obese person without surgical intervention. Not so I can have a big butt too, but so I can avoid such a tremendous derriere! Hahaha!
Talk about rich privilege. The cops just immediately assumed they were innocent and didn't test them with the thought process of eliminating them as suspects.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb and this is exactly what they did after going through so much abuse and bullying from their psychopath father, the mother was an accomplice. Regardless KK, they deserve a second chance, they have served in prison enough.
The Menendez brothers were denied justifiable homicide defense in their second trial. Their battered person syndrome defense was also, unjustifiably, denied which would have explained to the ignorant why they were incapable of ‘just leaving’. The egregious prosecution comment that the “abuse excuse” can’t be their defense because “men can not be raped because they lack the necessary equipment to be raped” also deflects that they were just boys when the abuse and control began. The simple elephant and chain analogy describes how learned behaviour prevents a big and powerful sentient being from escaping from its captivity and doing what is otherwise possible and seemingly easy looking at the situation from the outside in a safe, nurturing environment. But the abuser keeps their victims in fear, rendering the battered and tormented soul feeling hopeless, fearful and alone.
"the unparalleled wisdom of Kim Kardashian not withstanding,"
God, I love Dr. Grande.
That was a lovely Backhanded Compliment. 💙🤭
😂😂💀💀 gotta love the sarcasm.
She helped with another case .
@@jgalt5002 Is she going to help with Diddy's?
@@jltrem lol
To look at the question. Who gives a shit about Kim Kardhasians opinion on criminal convictions
My son was given a case from Kardashian for appeal. He lives in NJ. It it not just Kim, but a whole program. Innocent people do land up convicted
Amen
Donald Trump. She got him to sign some federal criminal law reforms, and a few pardons. Not joking, but it is a joke.
Well her dad helped OJ get exonerated
Agreed.
I've always been torn by this story. As children/teens who experienced awful things we couldn't escape from, my siblings and I fantasized about revenge! Made up elaborate stories of how 'they'd' pay. We couldn't protect ourselves and others didn't step in. We did leave home early... but the trauma never ended the way people assume it does. Like, now you're out you're free! The abusers live on to believe and convince others of their innocence, and sometimes abuse others, often they remain in your lives continuing to gaslight and torment. There is NO punishment for them. I know the power of wanting to wipe that smug smile off their face.
When I first heard about the shootings (before the abuse allegations came out) I thought; those boys were very angry at their parents and it takes a certain type of horrendous upbringing to make children that angry.
I too fantasized about taking my power back when it came to my abusive parent, I think they actually acted on those fantasies.
that was the basis of my question to Dr Grande
I’m truly sorry that happened to you.
@@andreeanasca8216 'taking my power back'... yes, that's the desired result.
Yes, it certainly does. I had a plan to get rid of my mother coz I couldn't take the abuse anymore. A solid plan. Ahhhh.....
Abuse changes you. Forever. You don't just get better coz 12 ppl say you're innocent or guilty. Those brothers actions will forever be ruled by their emotions. As for Kim K. Well, Kim. They can go free, but they have to live with you. You still want them free?????!!!!
I believe Dr. Grande may be the only person on the planet to utter "unparalleled wisdom" while referring to Kim Kardashian, and showed "unparalleled restraint" in keeping a straight face while doing so.
😂😂😂
HIs dead pan delivery is so good! Guy is genuinely funny!
He definitely aced his English classes in college.
😂
I'd love to see the out-takes. Sometimes he shows them.
This isn't an argument about the Kardashians - it's an argument about the fate of 2 brothers who did something herrible, out of genuine fear. I usually agree with Dr. Grande, but not in this case. Look at all the horrifying facts of the trauma they gave suffered - and statistics on what this does to children - and hear the testimony of all of the family and people who knew Jose.
Killing isn't justified by any means - but they've done their time! They lived a terribly sad life - when you watch the documentary, it becomes clearer. The Menendez brothers deserve to have a chance at a normal loving life. My prayers are with them..
That's absolutely understandable. I think we all have our own beliefs and opinions.. we can agree to disagree.
Amen 🙏
Did you hear recently members the group The group Manudo. And a family member came across a letter from one of the boys stating the abuse they endured. It was wrote long before the murders
They killed the parents because of rage due to horrific years of abuse. However they served their time in jail, the least they can do is give them parole and go from that.
Those boys don't look abused. More entitled than anything.
@@briannacc3983Not all abuse looks the same. Very ignorant comment. People also respond differently to trauma. Please educate yourself.
@@Littlelikeme92 please educate yourself on their background. Their parents provided what was best for them. To only be repaid by an ambush killing.
@@briannacc3983 I’m well aware of their background but just because their parents provided them with a cushy lifestyle doesn’t mean they weren’t being sexually abused. We’ve learned time and again that being a wealthy individual with a good societal standing doesn’t mean they aren’t a monster behind closed doors.
@@Littlelikeme92exactly
My best friend growing up and her little brother were SA'd by their stepdad for years. BFF grew up to be infertile because of what he did to her. Little brother killed himself at age 17 to escape it. Step dad went on to reoffend and ruin multiple more lives until he finally, thankfully died of a heart attack in his late 50s. "Society" might not be okay with children killing their parents, regardless of what monstrous things the parents are doing to them, and then there's the rest of us. Put me on the jury.
💯
Thank you from every single word! I think the same!! My friend was SA'd by her drug addict mum who pimp her own daighter to get drugs. Mother had been in the grave for years. She was killed by overdose but if my friend would had takek a law to her own hands I wouldn't have been angry.
The problem is they are not alive thanks to the brothers to give their side of it in a trial of SA. By unaliving their parents instead of going to police to accuse them of SA and leaving the home they unalived them. This will always and forever leave many people with the idea that it was a cover story, and rightly so. If they wanted retribution the way forward was gather evidence, have a place to go, and take it to court.
I do not doubt that the motive for these murders was revenge, but revenge for what exactly is the question. A higher range of ACEs, such as parental divorce, economic hardship, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse; neglect, etc., are correlated to at least 5 of the top 10 leading causes of early death in adulthood. In my case, my step parents were stable forces in the lives of my narcissistic, socioeconomically high-functioning, yet, Cluster B personality disordered parents. Unfortunately, out of guilt over the divorce of his first wife, the mother of his three sons, my step-dad spoiled my step-brothers rotten. For the most part, my step-brothers, who were not sexually abused but did have an alcoholic mother, ended up just like the Menendez brothers, my half-siblings reflected the more or less good to bad values of their parents, and my full siblings and I had to look perfect in comparison, which placed targets on our backs.
And this comment is evidence that you're not fit to sit on a jury. God help you, should you ever need a fair trial.
The boy from Menudo was actually 13 years old boy and bled for a week from the fathers boys rape
😢
No one bit of proof ,just hearsay
@@andyvanm1 Too many people saying the same damn thing about the "victims" for it to be just made up, don't you think? No way that man was innocent of sexual abuse - and if he was guilty, so was his wife, because everyone and their horse seems to have known about it, no way that "mother" didn't.
@@andreaplavkova1037 and OJ was innocent crowd say the same crap ... those spoiled bastards want out of prison ...and will say anything to get it. There was a reason why women weren't allowed on juries years ago and your reasoning proves it today.
@@andyvanm1people like you are the reason why victims don't say anything.
Is a hypocrisy when we give value to things like battled spouse syndrome, but we think a teenager that grew up in abuse should be mature enough to know a better way out.
Right?!
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. Why isn't there a battered child syndrome. Also, maybe they felt they deserved to spend all the money as compensation for years of horrific abuse.
@peapod6747 there is. They're calling it "Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" or cPTSD. As I understand it (I'm a RN w/ practice in mental health), the difference between the two being that PTSD is often caused by a single traumatic event whereas cPTSD comes from traumatic events occurring in the person's life over a period of time. Like childhood. I believe the term "generational trauma" is worth researching as well. Tim Fletcher, LMHC, out of Canada does a really good job describing both of these concepts.
@@lhr8833 💯
@@peapod6747. re: the money. No; they were just straight up sociopaths.
Dr Grande’s wife, nudging him in his sleep: “Honey! Wake up! You’re mumbling in your sleep again. ‘I’m not diagnosing anyone. This is only my opinion…’”
Wife? That would be very strange/deceptive if he had a wife..but I get some women are very slow sadly
@@IntegrityMeansAll?
@@IntegrityMeansAll
???
why/how is it deceptive and sad for Dr. Grande to have a wife? Which he does, he's introduced her. But your comment is bizarre and probably meant in an ugly way. What makes people like you make such strange and unpleasant comments when they could just keep scrolling and not show the world that they have issues! Geez!!! You sound like you're jealous somehow? Fame envy maybe? Sour grapes for sure though!
@@IntegrityMeansAllwow my comment didn't get posted because I called you out on what a bizarre comment you made yet utube will post your remark being derogatory to Dr. Grande in a most grievous manner. Anyway, you sound jealous and or ignorant . Just saying.
KK as a moral compass is laughable
what compass?
Since when has the legal system required morals?
That’s the joke
@DeidresStuff so true, I wanted to comment the same thing. To lawyers, it is all about the money!
The cramming lawyer? NOT. She s a joke.
I disagree that being repeatedly sexually abused by a parent from a young age has nothing to do with a child's' development, actions in response, up to and including murder. A child learns what it lives. If indeed their father repeatedly sexually and violently abused them, a person who's supposed to protect them - not have intercourse with them - how is that not mitigating? And if their mother knew and did nothing to stop it - then she'd be guilty of child abuse as well allowing it to happen.
Because there is no real solid proof that it happened. But there is proof that their attorney coached them. There is proof that the attorney they hired specialized in these types of cases where murder was excused because they were allegedly abused. Even if Jose did do it it doesn’t excuse what they did to their poor mother
Yes. They’re profoundly damaged by their experiences. NO ONE chooses the circumstances that make them criminals so in that sense no one is guilty. Society should decide based upon who’s likely to offend again. Boys who killed their parents shouldn’t be released until older, regardless of the conditions (unless it’s legally self defense, which this was not). Having terrible things done to you and reacting with deadly violence makes you MORE risky for society, not less. The trauma doesn’t just disappear simply because the traumatizers are dead. Many kids who are sexually abused go on to molest kids. Should they be given leniency? I don’t think so. The law should protect children as a whole-even if a sexual abuser has an impeccable excuse.
I’m less than halfway through the video but I’d be surprised if Dr Grande says that sexual abuse has nothing to do with the murders. Being a child abuser doesn’t make you any more deserving of death. You’re just as deserving of legal protection as the innocent.
@@UnknownUnknown1 you did not post links regarding leslie abramson coaching them on sex abuse. I watched the trial when it was first shown and since. lyle and erik would be the greatest living actors and abramson would be the greatest acting coach ever. the proof of the abuse is from family members. that jose was capable of abusing a young man has been revealed by the former member of menudo. lyle and erik were hypervigilant with regard to jose's threats. being sexually abused by their father drove them to a shaky mental state. Todd got this one wrong.
Evidence?
Disagree. From a trauma-informed perspective the sentence should be re-evaluated. The original sentence was too harsh and there are countless reasons why.
Their father was a monster and the mother enabled it. The brothers don’t belong in prison for the rest of their lives. Everyone around them failed them.
"Society is not ok with children murdering their parents" is true but society is not ok with parents abusing their children either.
Yeah not true. You know how many children are murdered each year and CPS was already involved but did nothing.
Yes, well put!
Somehow I belive almost everyone understands deep down why they did it and belives them too! They served their time definitly. Free the brothers ❤
I couldn't care less what Kim Kardashian thinks about any single thing on this planet.
unfortunately some people do.. shes already got plenty of murderers out of jail.. all a certain color too.
She hasn't done much lately (got married, had another kid, high profile romance) so this puts her back in the public eye and part of the current Menendez zeitgeist.
❤️🇬🇧
Does that make everything she says wrong though?
You shouldn’t care what a celebrity thinks about anything but you also shouldn’t dismiss everything they say.
Being a celebrity is just not something that qualifies an opinion
@@chrisnoname2725 I dismiss her and I dismiss you as well. You may go now.
The second trial was motivated by the prosecutors needing a conviction due to the LA riots, they needed something to redeem themselves. This is why they threw out evidence before the second trial. One big thing they didn't allow was testimony that their grandmother also stated she believed her son was a child rapist. There is a great online documentary explaining all this.
That makes sense why she was always by their side even after they confessed to the killings.
Eles já pagaram por seu crime, merecem a liberdade
If freaking Gypsy Rose is free, they absolutely should be too....
So much for blind justice. Also only reason OJ was freed was because the jury didnt care about Nicole since she was white. In the US the actual racism is towards whites.
yep..... the riots together with the OJ trial
I think you cannot underestimate the damage caused by one narcissistic parent, and a se* abuser. I think 30 years is long enough and they should be released. They should not however benefit financially from their crimes if that could be arranged under American Law.
I would guess the inheritance went to other relatives, but I don’t know for sure.
@@wendybond2848 they were victims. They then would have served their punishment, why shouldn’t they be allowed to write books or do interviews for payment?
@@chrisnoname2725i think she means the heritance，if so That's fair.
@@Liverpool-h7i ok. To me it still should be theirs but i understand wanting to discourage this sort of thing so i suppose so.
Kim Kardashian has a Netflix law degree
I thought it was an Instagram degree 😂
Too funny😂
😂😅
You may not like Kardashians but they're not dumb. It's a reality show and they act how they think they can get audience.
Graduated “Lord Have Mercy” with Honors in Chrome Buffing and Big Arses.
Prime example of "Hurt people, hurt people." ....
Dr Grande you should read the transcript from the first trial. There was a lot of evidence of abuse that was allowed into that trial that was not permitted in the second one. They ought to have been afforded the opportunity to use the evidence in the second trial. The judge made a legal error.
It’s widely accepted that the average human brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age and that abuse and trauma can cause developmental delays. They were 18 and 21 at the time of the murder chronologically, but it is doubtful that they were actually that age developmentally.
If a woman who has been exposed to abuse for many years feels she can’t escape why wouldn’t young adults who have been exposed to severe abuse suffer from the same trauma? That makes no logical sense.
If a woman has grown up being abused by her parents and is told over and over again that her father owns her and there’s no escape the court accepts that as a mitigating factor so why shouldn’t be accepted for men?
The second judge ought to have allowed that evidence in. They were not permitted to make full answer and defence in the second trial and now there’s a third victim who has come forward. There were corroborating witnesses to physical and mental abuse in the first trial. They weren’t permitted to be called in the second trial.
You aren’t any less abused just because the abuser is rich and powerful. They very well could have believed that they could not escape him and they were probably right considered their father’s connections.
Why is it so difficult for men to believe that boys who have been abused for years suffer just like girls do? I’m sorry Dr Grande but I do not agree with you. The abuse evidence ought to have been allowed in at the second trial. The judge made an error in law.
I’ve read both trial transcripts as they were available on westlaw when I was a law student. They were not even permitted to use the abuse as a defence to mitigate sentencing. That was a clear error in law and a violation of their right to make full answer and defence. I’m tired of men’s rights being violated by people who believe that men don’t have feelings. I’m tired of men being abused and it being permitted by the system. Abuse is abuse and trauma affects men every bit as much as it does women.
Ok. Given all that alleged abuse, they should have left. Murder wasn't justified imo.
This is 💯 spot on!!!
@@diandie1838left? C'mon, they were the sons of an entertainment mogul. If.they had left, they would have been found very easily. José Menendez would have moved the entire LAPD and even the FBI to look for his "lost boys".
@@missdeejay There are places to get help. The dad would not have wanted to be found out. But they chose murder and now they can pay for it.
@diandie1838 their word against his. He would just claim they were salty cos he was cutting the boys out of his will. Money talks.
A broken clock is right twice a day. Kim may be wrong about much, but she is using her platform for a good cause.
I believe the Menendez brothers. They were victims of horrible abuse from both parents. They served their time,, set them free
35 years. Sarah Boone will get 22 (for manslaughter) when convicted, after she turned down a plea deal of 15 years..
Say they get released in March 2025 - 35 years after their arrests. That's 17.5 years per murder, when many could argue that it was manslaughter, that only requires an 11 year sentence at most per victim. I guess it comes down to "how much more time do you think they should serve before their debt to society is paid?". At most I'd say 40 years but 35 is a pretty good slice out of their adult lives - three and a half decades of it to be precise. I became an adult in November 1989 so have not even been an adult for 35 years yet.
The mitigating factors are that it was a parricide, the evidence of abuse and major character flaws in Jose and Kitty, the brothers' absence of violence before and after the crime, extreme youth of the offenders, excellent rehabilitation and peer reviews of their long period in jail while under a "life without parole" sentence, support from 24 family members (a very rare level of support) and court and jury judgements that the murder was not for financial gain (1993 Grand Jury) and not even technically a murder (2 x hung juries).
And being in their mid-50s now the likelihood of recidivism is very close to 0%. I support the release, after no later than 35 years served.
Hi Dr Grande - maybe try to get in touch with Dr. Ann Burgess - she's a legend and a pioneer in the study of how serial abuse affects the minds of our children and adolescents. The statistics are well researched and backed up. Thanke
There was hatred in their killings. If they wanted the money, they could have achieved a much less brutal death. And the hatred most likely comes from the years of abuse they endured.
No. Some people are just evil as shit.. they were evil simply put
You abuse your kids too for sûre
I bet you'd love to mother both of them the poor babies.
@@Chatillgbtno other instances in their lives demonstrate your conclusion. They wanted to end their abuse. The undying support for a man who SA’d his children is so weird to me.
@@GC-pq6vm it’s a lie.. if they were, their parents would never have gotten them a shrink in the first place.. They would have also brought it up before making the confession to their shrink.. and after confessing that they murdered their parents they would have stated that they were SA’d as their reason. They used SA as a get out jail free card and it didn’t stick because people see the BS.. if anything they probably got beats like every kid in the 80s lol for being bad ass kids and because they were spoiled imo
I hope that therapist lost his license. Truly the most unprofessional person
I heard a slightly different story to Dr Grande.
I read the therapist went directly to police himself after Eric threatened to kill him.
Eric's own words, his threats were the catalyst and legal and morally right thing to do in that situation.
The therapist didn't break the privacy and confidentiality of the Dr and patient.
Nor did he go to the police...
He held his oath and silence. For quite a while.
Until Eric MADE him break it due to a very credible threat to his life.
Ironically it was both brothers own words that got them caught 😅
Lyle's original confession.
Erics threat saying he "has" to kill him to save them both.
Eric literally broke the confidentiality agreement himself, basically forcing the therapist to speak to the cops.
.
🤔
He lost it.
@@missjustice2730no he didn’t.. his mistress got mad at him and reported it..
@@missjustice2730 It was actually the woman with whom the married psychologist was having an affair who eavesdropped on the conversation who went to the police.
Honestly, it’s hard to imagine someone thinking straight if that person is being sexually abused by his or her own father on a consistent basis. It’s easy to say: “just leave the home,” but that’s not how it works in abusive families. The siblings were probably full of hate and bitterness towards their father and, especially, mother (who never protected them from the abuse). Did they premeditate the murder? Certainly. But what else could be done? Go to the police? Their father was an influential man, who would have believed them? Their mother would probably have stood by their father’s side and called them liars. Even their cousins who knew about the abuse took YEARS to admit their knowledge in public. The singer from the Menudo family took over 30 years to talk about it publicly. The question is: would the Menendez brothers have commuted murder if they hadn’t been abused? I don’t think so.
Last question: if they were women, would popular opinion have turned against them as they did because they were men? I doubt. Would anyone demand that they serve life sentences for killing a father who sexually abused them if they were women? I doubt it.
"What else could be done?" THEY COULD HAVE LEFT.
@@missmerbellai dont think that they would have been safe just by leaving. The father would have found them and the abuse continue, how it always happened. In their psichological situation the only iption was murder..
@missmerbella lol in that case, battered wife syndrome should not be a legitimate defense in court since "they could have left"
I understand what you are saying. I do think understanding such bizarre abuse and the mother’s complicity is beyond the average person’s scope. At the time, OJ had just gotten away with murder. People were needing accountability in the justice system. I really think this may have had a profound effect on the outcomes of their trials.
Yet so many other victims of worse abuse do not go on to be murderers, hmmm.
I disagree I don’t think you can expect young adults that were abused and controlled on every level to make good decisions. Kitty was informed twice by family of possible sexual abuse and did nothing! Dr Grande did you ever think that perhaps the children had been emotionally killed already? Of course it’s better to go to authorities but still decades later victims of sexual abuse don’t easily report it. These poor souls spent the first half of their lives abused and the second half in prison it’s their parents that should have been imprisoned. These boys now men will never know their full potential if only they had had parents that loved them.
They should definitely be released, life sentence without parole is not justified in this case. They are not a danger to the public, they won't re-offend. They were horrifically abused, self preservation is a human instinct.
Exactly
Thank God we don't have Dr Grande as a judge 👍
After more than 35 years in prison, many might say that's enough, especially since in most Western countries, they would have been released for good behavior by now. If they were sentenced today, it’s unlikely they would receive life sentences, as the sexual abuse allegations would be considered in their sentencing.
If they left, they would not get support. If they went to the authorities, they would be cut off. Jose used his money to control the people around them and groomed his children when they were 6 years old. For a couple of young boys who felt trapped, killing their parents was the only way to get out of the situation- and get the money. Also, the fact that Kitty was miserable and stayed in the marriage was proof of Jose's control over everyone. They were screwed-up kids because of the abuse; what their father did to them was gross. Maybe not a popular opinion here, but they have paid their dues, and are not a threat to society.
You're sick to defend such lying monsters they deleted their parents for a 14 million dollar death insurance ...go pray 🙏 for forgiveness 😤
Yours seems to be the popular opinion, but right or wrong this video got views and engagement and he didn’t have to cause controversy for himself and going the other way would lose viewers from people who don’t want to think about things where this way those who disagree are sticking around to discuss their opinion.
Don’t assume that people who have a title are to be worshipped or that you’re on the opposite side to the majority just because your opinion is different to a guy who makes videos
This is entertainment packaged as an analysis
Exactly they could have left but wanted to live a life of luxury.
He threatened their lives, it wasn't just about the money. He tormented them their entire lives.
@MistyAir ...they both were big strong young 6ft men ...they wasn't little boys...when they deleted their father and mother ...they both were monsters and conniving...I pray they stay in prison 4 life 😤
I think they should go free, both parents were involved in the abuse, for your mother to watch your father raping you and do nothing, how do you process that as a child, they were victims, they are not a threat to the public, I think they have suffered enough
What kind of monster rapes his own son ?
Exactly.
Wheres the proof he did that ?
@@opencurtinA third SA victim of him has come forward. And in the entertainment industry he was sharing circles that have been exposed for CP/child molestation and predatory behaviour. Jose Menendez was the 80s P. Diddy.
What leads me to believe that there was truly abuse and that they were victims is that such a heinous crime was committed by 2 people at the same time, so they either suffered similar experiences (sex abuse) that messed them up badly and lead them to that or they were just psychopaths from birth (genetically), the former seems more likely.
In other words- what is the likelihood of 2 young kids commuting the same crime w/out a significant reason they both experienced?
Yeah, pretty much this. If one of your children kills you, maybe they were a bad egg. If more than one of your children kill you, you are probably the bad egg.
I think we can all agree that if this were the Menendez sisters, there would be a much, MUCH lighter sentence
💯 absolutely!!!
Yup!
Yes - this
No, because there are multiple female psychopaths locked up for life rn.
I just hate this planet.
One of my major accomplushments in my 80 years of life so far is that I have NEVER seen a single epidode of the Kardashian show and wouldn't recognize any of them if they were in the same room as me.
😂😂
With c-ptsd, their feeling they might be killed that night doesn't need to make sense. They had it, so acted on it. Im not shocked neither brother mentioned the SA at the time. Sure, they lived it up after their crime. I think most of us would at that age. I think they need released. The man SAed by Jose who came forward is an especially compelling witness who backs up both brother's claims. Is society at risk? No. They killed who needed to go. Could they have simply left that night? Again, no, the c-ptsd had them prisoners. You absolutely cannot comprehend what that's like to live daily unless you've been there. Dr. Grande's analysis is spot on, but if you flip the coin, I believe there's another side equally as valid. These boys really did get put through hell growing up.
I don't care about Kim Kardashian and didn't even know she was rooting for them but I support the Menendez brothers and I agree they should be set free.
Just listen to the testimony of the Menudo guy. Jose was a monster and his wife too.
Agree 💯!!
Kim needs to mind her bussiness... She shouldnt draw attention to herself right now. Shes involved with P DIDDY
And OJ!
Let the truth come out!
The only business she has is "how can I get some press!" 🤡
How is she involved? Has she been indicted ? 😂
@@AllAboutPurple She inserted herself in the case.
I respect dr Grandes perspective but sometimes i feel like he victim blames. Maybe he's just un biased or speaking objectively. I beleive them.
It's called accountability
Yeah I agree he’s victim blaming with this one. He’s awesome but missed the mark on this.
or maybe he is just harder to manipulate than you
I've realized that he does that a lot. I don't think I would want him to be my counselor.
Yeah he did a pretty good job minimizing years of rape and sodomy.
So many people in the comments seem to think that if you believe the brothers should remain in jail, then you are somehow justifying or ignoring the abuse. These 2 issues are not mutually exclusive. I think the brothers suffered and it’s beyond tragic what happened. I also think they need to remain in jail.
Why is it okay to accept, " Battered Wife Syndrome" is real and give leniency. People dont say, "oh she have just left, life without parole for you!!". People have empathy to DV victims. Why is there no "Battered Child Syndrome"? Why is that sooo hard to believe? Should childhood abuse not be a factor?
Battered wife syndrome should not be used as a defense. It's often a cover for murder.
They were adults. They could have left. Instead they premeditated killing their parents. Like Dr grande said, both things can be true at the same time. Even if they were abused, it doesn’t justify MURDERING your parents. There’s plenty of people who are abused and they don’t go on to be killers
There is. It's called Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome or CPTSD. It stems from a child or adult receiving or being exposed to trauma/abuse over an extended period of time.
@mariahspapaya omg. Mentally, they were NOT adults. Get an eduction, please, before making ignorant comments.
@@cassandraotroy6325 I keep seeing these comments that mentally they were children. That assumption and diagnosis was made by a psychiatrist that the defense paid for. They literally paid him to say what they want him to say. It does not make it definitive fact. Legally they were adults and that’s all that matters
It’s frankly a bit disturbing that someone like Dr. Grande with a strong background in psychology and mental health disorders would not take into consideration how SA is extremely debilitating to development and could lead to extreme behaviors.
It’s one thing to learn about SA and C-PTSD, and another to have lived it. Seems like he can’t imagine what it must have been like for a child to have been raped and terrorised by the dad for 12 years with no end in sight.
Couldn’t agree more.
It’s plenty of people who have been SA and r they didn’t kill their parents always an excuse
@sagba9473 I think the issue is not about killing or not, it's about the extreme punisnment they recieved. It should have been considered as manslaughter and not murder. I personally think after 34 yra in prison they have already paid for their crime.
Dr Grande also said in another video that their killing of Kitty was not defensible. I strongly disagree. She was complicit in their terrible abuse. She likely also suffered, but as a response to her sons telling her what was going on, she told them to be quiet. She was her own kind of monster. She did nothing at all to spare her own children and whatever her motives, it makes her a part of the abuse.
They were abused in the worst way all their lives. Going by their 'adult ' age while ignoring their emotional age is irresponsible. The mother knew and didnt stop it, because SHE was motivated by money over protecting her children. They did their time, more than most. This is a rare time that id be fine with their release
Geez!
Tell it to the judge and see what happens.
@mulliganstew72 I don't have to. We'll see what happens🤷♀️. Hopefully they will have the facts that are woefully missing here
Another one with a degree in Netflix and Google.
@@hnr4994 That's funny. I'm betting you lack actual degrees
One of the reporters who attended the first trial said it best: "If you think they should have life without parole, you weren't in that courtroom". Eric in particular gave such ghastly testimony in such a compelling way that one reporter said he would have had to be as skilled as Marlon Brando to have been acting and making that up. Having read Paul Mones' book called "When a Child Kills", a case study of eight children who committed matricide/patricide, I would say that the brothers fit that mold. The killers in that book, all abused of course, believed without a doubt that their father or mother was going to kill them. They all concluded after their incarceration that prison was better than home. Psychologists testified that the brothers had the emotional intelligence of 8-year-olds who would have considered it unthinkable that they could survive by just leaving home.
It does not give them the right to murder! , stop drinking the kool-aid
The 911 call was pretty compelling too yet it was a complete lie. It just means they're good actors, which psychopaths tend to be.Also, the first trial ended up in a hang jury (couldn't reach a unanimous verdict) so I guess by the logic of the journalist those jurors who found them guilty weren't in the courtroom?
@@jocelynastheart2732 How about you stop being a psychopath? Only a psychopath would not try to even empathize with children who were brutally raped by their father on a consistent basis.
They couldn't have just left the mansion or called someone for help because their father was very influential and could hurt them. Their father was a vindictive man and even their mother had suffered his abuse. I don't think it is as easy as just walking away or asking for help. The only other 'help' they accessed was that unethical Oziel. Erik did tell his cousin that he was being abused. The allegations of child sexual abuse is compelling because it led to a hung jury for the first time and the boys were spared from the death penalty. Also, their relatives to this day corroborate the allegations of sexual abuse. I believe with the new evidence available, their case deserves to be taken up.
They still took two lives and made themselves judge, jury and executioners
@@Graycy808 They have been punished and are in jail.
If what the brothers say is true, and their responses together with others accounts appear to back this, I would have no quarrel then, with the justice they served the parents.
The mom knew he locked himself up with kids ... She is to blame the most
To blame for what?
All of the trauma they continued to suffer because she allowed it to continue!
@@sharonmacphisto849 Is the person who carried out the abuse "most to blame" for that abuse?
@@eadweard. nope both parents are to blame.
@@sharonmacphisto849 Well the OP said the mother is "most to blame".
Thanks for video about this, It was suggested that both parents abused them, with father primarily. They were abused as little children and was horrific. They at least deserve a new trial so that all the evidence can be exposed. Also, was suggested that the father threatened their lives. But nobody knows everything unless the evidence is allowed to be presented.
Also, wondered Why didn't they leave home? Were they threatened if they did leave, even as they got older? unless all the evidence is presented, nobody knows. Still, they had to pay the consequences of murder which is wrong, regardless.
@@ginnyn9660 Until you have lived a life of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse, it's very hard to understand the trauma that it entails. IF what the boys testified to (in their first trial) is all true, they grew up completely abused their entire lives and felt threatened by their father in every way imaginable. They also allegedly told others about the abuse, and they were not believed.
Double Jeopardy.
Yeah that's why trials exsist.... DDDEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR
@@ginnyn9660 The son who was being r@ped was not allowed to leave the home to go to college, the father said that son had to stay home, though he was 18 (and assumedly continue to be r@ped)
As always, I appreciate the factual presentation Dr. Grande brings to us. Logical reasoning is sorely missing in much of society today.
He is biased. Look into the case, do your own research and stop blindly believing everything this man says without fact-checking even once.
I am shocked by your lack of compassion and insight in this case. I agree with you sometimes, disagree equally as often, but in this case I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, society is becoming less empathic all the time. 51 witnesses testified about what a horrible person their dad was and how abused the boys were.
Bottom line, if all your children grow up to be murders by the age of 18, there is something really, really dark going on in that family that the PARENTS are responsible for. They were the true monsters.
I believe they tortured their Mom because she knew of the abuse and didn't do anything about it. Her lifestyle meant more to her than her boys.
Yep
11:10 “Society is not ok with children murdering their parents.” Then how do you explain Gypsy Rose?
Feminists. lol
She didn't kill her parents like they did. She convinced another to kill for her and she still served 7 years for that crime.
@@xKarenWalkerx Not a big difference there. It was an extremely violent overkill that she ordered her bf to do which was murder and she was present for it. She also robbed her mother afterward which shows a financial motive. Her case was treated very sympathetically due to her gender and she also had no sexual abuse. She did nothing to better herself during her short time in prison and she refused all therapy. She has done zero advocacy since as she promised to do just more attention-seeking and narcissistic grifting which society has fully accepted.
@@xKarenWalkerxso killing on your own is bad but manipulating mentaly unstable man for murder is not .
Dr Grande, you said the boys could have left because they were old enough to just walk away. You should know better than anyone that abuse like that causes a psychological prison that people who haven’t experienced can’t understand. Were they physically old enough and able to just leave home? Yes. But after years of SA, psychological manipulation and threats, I don’t think they felt they could do that. Whether that’s logical or not, it’s what they were groomed to believe. Personally I think they felt they had no other choice but to take matters into their own hands, knowing that fighting an influential person like their dad would be futile. In general I don’t think we can just let society go taking justice into their own hands but I think certain situations can create a grey area and in that grey area of this particular crime, my compassion causes me to cut them some slack as I believe they have suffered enough. I do believe they were victims. I just don’t think you can fake the emotion they displayed. It was very raw. And as for spending the money….I’m sure they were feeling lots of intense emotions including relief and guilt which could potentially cause someone to act impulsively and/or partake in some therapeutic activity such as “retail therapy”. People use all sorts of dysfunctions as a band aid.
💯 agree
Ummm, no. Much like her stand on the moon landing, she's wrong about this as well.
P.S
Since when did any of the Kardashian's become experts in anything?
They are pretty good at being famous and making money.
I'm not a fan of the Kardashians at all, BUT Kim wants to follow in her father's footsteps and she went to law school. It seems to me she is taking this very seriously.
Probably experts on implants
they're good at polishing pipe.
@@badlandskid and plastic surgery.
The Menendez brothers Aunty testified that they were both tortured from a young age. Erik frequently requested lemon juice and ketchup as a child and teenager as it was the only way to remove the taste of his father's seamen from his mouth. Their father had also threatened to kill them before his death after Lyle found out that his brother was still being abused. The brothers were clearly under duress and trauma bonded to their parents. They should have been charged with manslaughter and released from prison. It sounds like Dr. Grande has little experience with individuals who have been sexually abused and has difficulty understanding their behaviour.
Jose and Kitty were MONSTERS!!! Jose rap**his sons and Roy from Menudo. The boys told their young relatives about the abuse. Also, Kitty turned a Blind Eye to
Jose's Abuse and SAed them herself! These Brothers experienced so much Trauma. Free Erik and Lyle!!!!
Pls google the case of sylesnar seah in Singapore. He killed his father and was let off with a much lighter sentence. The court is sympathetic and understands the impact of abuse.
Agreed
Who cares or puts any weight on what Kim says? They need a better spokesperson if they want to be taken seriously.
I agree. I wish we could never hear from Kardashian again.
It is not just Kim. Ugh. It is the innocent program.
Donald Trump, aparently...
@@lauriefarmer2821 the irony of calling it the innocent program.
They are not innocent.
I don’t think they killed for money. The killings were brutal which showed the intensity of Their anger and hate. It was a very passionate murder. For both parents, which shows they hated both of them equally. Even Kitty’s sister said she can’t forgive her because she never protected those boys. So even with some premeditation, the crimes were a result of intense anger and an attempt to gain their power back. Unfortunately I do t think anyone would have believed them if they told on their dad. Every adult had failed them All their lives. They thought they only had each other and no support from the outside.
Amazing though how buying Rolex watches and Porsches can ease the pain .
@@5675492 yep shop therapy existed back in the day as well
@@5675492 somehow the parents couldn't teach them financial management. Too busy being perverts
@@5675492 I'm not defending them because murder is not a course I would have taken, but when I left my parent's abusive home for the first time when I was 19, I had a period of a year or two where I felt extremely happy, almost celebratory, and life was SO great. It's finally over! I was out partying, making friends, very happy and doing great at school and work. You wouldn't think I was abused. I was on top of the world, I was free! Like, "this is it! This is the life!" And then the C-PTSD symptoms started to slowly kick in... and then in my thirties I was like, ohhh crap, I'm mentally ill.
So I kinda get it. I mean, they were acting like two kids who were suddenly free with a lot of money more than two criminal masterminds who needed the money for some specific mega-investment. Not that they weren't criminals, but not exactly masterminds.
Yeah .....a spark of divinity as Nancy would say.
Kim felt she just wasn't annoying enough so she decided to set murderers free as a hobby to really drive it home
LOL
She kk just want to create massive attention to herself and freeing these two horrible people are the way to do it.
Perhaps Kim can take them in and be their guardian. She can set curfews and strict rules so they don't reoffend 😂
She'l probably let's them live with them like forever at their palace ... right
😂😂😂😂
Erik and Lyle should be free at this point, there are ppl who did gruesome things to innocent ppl who are free. To condemn them for life is ridiculous to me. The court system found a way to justifiy john thomas sweeney strangling his gf for 5 mins, her life was over at 22 and he only served 2 years!! Thats it!
Not mention hed been abusing her for months beforehand, covering her in bruises! Erik and Lyle as wrong as it is went after the ppl that hurt them. They didnt take their anger out on a girlfriend who had nothing to do with the ab-se they suffered as children like John thomas sweeney did. They went after the ppl who hurt them.
I am in NO doubt the father would have killed them if they started to tell. Cause he threatend them!!!!! And the proof of molestation in the court case are sickening!!!! It is easy to judge, for everyone that has never experienced anything like what these brothers did.
THIS 💯💯💯
It is sickening what people wrote in this comment section 💔
Changing the rules of the game to ensure conviction is not only unfair but illegal. The judge is obviously biased. Those who can't see it are idiots
"why don't victims just simply leave their abusers?" i hate that question. c'mon dr. grande, you should know better.
It’s a relevant question a lot of the time. Probably not in this case though
His The psychiatrist that needs a psychiatrist most are crazier then the patients.
Gosh, no kidding.
Same logic, other side: Why do criminals incriminate themselves by confiding in someone?
Are you talking about at 9:20? I think he was asking that to cover everything for us viewers. For example, you may not like that question but other people might have that question. And that’s why I believe he asked it. I could be wrong though. I’m no guru.
I have to disagree. I think they should be released. Everyone has an opinion but if you haven’t been sexually abused then you have no idea what the brothers were thinking or how they processed what was happening to them. Everyone says they could’ve left but their dad was literally involved of every aspect of their life.
The most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they plan to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling
😂
If there's definite proof that his parents were doing that stuff to their kids the dad was severely molesting them while the wife turned an eye then yes they deserve to be released from prison they've done enough time the parents got what they deserve they should should have done no more than 20 years
The mother was not innocent. She was fully aware of the abuse, was present as it happened and enabled it. To keep HER fancy lifestyle she pimped out her children to her husband.
she also abused them
Maybe.
She sure did 👍
You don’t know that , just because you watched a Netflix hit piece on his parents doesn’t mean you know this family
These were two adults that had , no jobs and a wrapsheet. I wouldn’t trust what they had to say. Even their own psychiatrist deemed they were sociopaths. They were both adults. Idk life was so bad they could have left and made a life of their own. They chose to stay. They belong in prison right where they belong. Regardless if the ‘ weren’t that great they didn’t deserve to die and in the way they did as well. They premeditated their parent’s murder. Letting them go would send a message to others that it’s okay to murder your parents if you don’t like them. Just no. They are a threat to society. Period.
New evidence has just come out. The brothers should be released for their crime, for what their parents did to them.
In my opinion the brothers are guilty of murder, which required a long sentence. I believe the abuse occured and can imagine their emotional ages at the time of the crime would have been very stunted as a consequence. However, a lifetime in prison seems disproportionate. The abuse they suffered should have been a mitigating factor
Exactly
I truly couldn't care about Kim Kardashians opinion.
However I have always believed them having heard the testimonies of themselves and others. I can say as well that I have worked with complex trauma and CSE in teens and young adults, and from some of the intricacies they testified to that they were abused. Lyle and Erik do not say " it was justified" at all. They say they acted out of fear, which with their diagnosises and the childhood that they had is very likely they did see the situations differently. Trust me, when people suffer from complex trauma throughout their lives, people can react very differently to how other people can react. A single smell, sound, image can cause wild emotional responses and they can interpret hostility in situations that arent necessarily there.
Both of their parents were killed in the den, they didn't chase her around the house.
If it was premeditated, then why not do it with handguns, in beverley hills, when people would hear. Why not wait till they could get handguns? Why not stage a robbery? A break in? It was a crime of passion quite clearly.
Jerome oziel was having an affair with his patient who he asked to listen in at the door in order to blackmail both brothers. When Erik first saw Oziel he was reporting everything they discussed back to his father.
Lyle and Erik's testimonies have never changed. Kitty allowed both brothers to be abused by their father as well as physically and emotionally abusing them also. Pretty much their entire family want them released including jose and kitty's siblings? In fact nearly all of them were witnesses of different types of abuse they had seen.
So what is your opinion about the sentence then, given it was a violet couple of murders.
It does not give them the right to murder! , stop drinking the kool-aid
I know this lady now in her sixties, her father sexualy abused her since she was 11 up to the time she was 18 when unexpectedly he dropped dead from a heart attack, this is only the short part of the story. The brothers should be released. it's been 35 years
1. If they want to eliminate the father?
Why would they kill their mom...chase her around the house.... ?
2.... Spending money right away?
They have a very unique way of grieving...
3... Even if their father was guilty..... Why not leave the house....
3. They knew exactly what they were doing...... BS...
Parents were raising criminals and were committing petty crimes......
Talk to any survivor of childhood SA where the mother was well aware of what was going on and ask their opinion on this. It should be pretty clear why they went after their mother then.
Today's generation just jump on feel good crusades without respect to reality
I understand...
I was a victim of child abuse ....
I do understand what you're saying....
But to kill them ..... Many people may have been abused... Do they end up becoming killers ?
These brothers were troubled since beginning n became criminals and were spoiled..
These Menendez "boys" could have moved out & they were not little kids when they pulled the triggers. Deal with other inmates that need legal help. 🤓
To top it off, they were 19 and 20 ... they should have left the "abuse". Many a 14 year old has run away from such abuse. It makes me chuckle that these two adults cried victim when their real intention was to live the baller life and get the inheritance without a moment's delay. Makes me chuckle and shake my head at the people sympathising with them and wanting to have them be released...
I rarely disagree with Dr. grande. However, hearing them cry on the stand was believable. Dad was a POS and even though they were adults they still experienced the long time abuse. Mom didn’t protect them. Moms are supposed to protect. They have served 35 years.
Wow, you’re easily fooled by a couple of spoilt sociopaths, As you say they were adults , they had other options , there was no excuse for the savage way they murdered their mother , even if you could argue the murder of their father was justified
lol.
@@tillyt4054 The mother's own family including her sister and nieces have said they don't forgive her for what she did to her sons. You people are so ignorant.
💯
I believe them.
Just my thoughts. If the evidence shows that sexual molestation over and over within the Father's so-called normal lifestyle then they have served enough and maybe too much time because they were in prison with such a dispicable father. As an eight year old, my neighbors had this same stuff going on and I'm glad I was able to Keep away from it all~ I am biased. Emotion played a role...anger and hatred came to a head.
If they were sexually abused that would create an emotional disturbance that would justify it. Not much evidence exists.
I agree with Dr. Grande's conclusion.
LOL at Kim Kardashian's "unparalleled wisdom".
Many well renowned therapists do NO agree with Dr. Grande on this. Nor do many people, such as myself, who have experienced SA or know people who have. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it, but I don't share it.
I don't appreciate the focus placed on Kim in the title and contents of this video. The jab at her completely undermines the severity of the issue. This case is complex, and deeply upsetting. The abuse is alleged, yes, but there is a huge amount of evidence to support it. The Brothers need to be held accountable for their actions by all means, but the serious topic of male sexual abuse is completely overshadowed by the use of Kim for comedic relief. If you want to call Kim out for her 'passion' for prison reform do it. But not at the expense of sensitive issues like this.
Dr. You're my FAVORITE TH-camr!
Same
Same!
Dr. Grande while being eloquent, witty and intelligent is also primitive and sadistic. He like many psychologists went to the field of psychology, to try to help himself with his problems.
I don't know how it works for him ...
In the case of Menendez brothers it is clear that the killings were done with hatred towards the parents and the mother was enabler of mistreatment. There is such a continent as Europe with many different countries. In non of the European country regardless of severity of the crime the brothers would spent more then 30 years in prison , and this is even without apparently strong mitigating circumstances of the case.
Dr. Grande excepts that Brothers could have been victims of sexual abuse and still need to rot in prison for more then 35 years.
Dr. Grande is at the very least both sadistic and primitive
@iotrix You're basing your ideals on statistics. Opinions matter, yours included. In the grand scheme of things, everything you typed was for you
I see i am in the minorty, but ive seen evidence that the father was a horrible person. And sure going to the police is much different for the rich to go free these brothers have served enough time. Any sicko doesn't deserve to get out again. Time for Kitty has already been served after all she was aware for the abuse
friendly correction: the mother *did* abuse Lyle when he was 11-13 years old. Lyle was the one to reload.
Also important to note: in the few days leading up to the crime, the father and mother learned that Erik told Lyle that his father was still abusing him. After finding out, the parents reportedly threatened the boys. I think it makes a lot of sense that the disclosure of abuse bookended the crime. Calling for help would mean disclosing not just within the family, but without. The situation was already incredibly dysfunctional and volatile--once Jose knew that the boys were giving voice to their traumatic experience, he perceived *them* as a threat to his reputation (and something he would have to *deal* with).
Just want to offer a rebuttal to the notion that the parents were not threatening "doesn't make sense." With fuller context, it does.
Yeah, it's no coincidence (nor surprising) that Lyle was the one who served the finishing blow to Kitty. There was definitely some unfinished business there. Unlike Erik, Lyle's descriptions of the SA suffered by his mother were very vague and simplistic, not going into detail much. I suspect he didn't let us in on the whole story.
@@A.M-b8t He might've felt like he was more "in control" because he was entering his teenage years. So there's a different kind of shame. Also, it was the only time KItty was "adoring" was when he was being abused. So it was his only access to motherly love. To name it for what it is (terrible abuse) might not be something he can handle. I can't even imagine that level of betrayal.
Gypsy Rose Blanchard is free… so should Lyle and Erik be free…. They’ve served enough time. And Kim’s opinion means nothing to me.
No, Gypsy did not commit the act of murdering her mother. She may had planned it, but someone else committed the act. Both of these brothers committed the act by blowing the heck out of their parents with riffles at close range., Gypsy served her time. These guys have not.
@@TracyR4 I don't think the law makes that distinction. You don't have to pull the trigger to be as guilty as the one that does.
Everyone says “they were adults, they could’ve left.” We have to remember that the most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they try to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling. Murder wasn’t the answer but they’ve served their time.
😂
I agree
No they didn't serve their time. The sentence was/is life WITHOUT parole!!! They are exactly where they should be, a jury of their peers found both guilty and spared them the death penalty!!
There is not one iota of evidence to support the contention that the father sexually abused anyone. The so-called bombshell letter, written not when the brothers were children but just months before the murder, just supports that the murders were planned way ahead. And the Menudo guy's story has been proven to be full of holes. He even told several people that he was hoping the ensuing publicity would jump-start his failed career. I do not believe the brothers were ever sexually abused. Lyle was and is a sociopath ( ask his girlfriends, and look at his police record BRFORE the murders) and Eric was a sad follower. The triggering event here was that Lyle, a career playboy who failed at everything he tried, found out that his father was disinheriting him. He then murdered his parents in cold blood and tried to erase the will.
@@mercuryangel5632if they can let one of the Manson girls out on parole, surely you can let these guys out after putting an end to a pedofile
Let's be real, how is Kim Kardashian qualified to make such a judgment? Please!
She actually has a law degree!!! Not that it qualifies her, but yeah I was surprised to hear she even went to college!
You’re so silly. Because she’s OJ’s goddaughter. He didn’t do it either.
@@Graycy808 she passed the “baby bar”. She’s not a real lawyer. She didn’t go to formal college either, she did “alternate route studies”.
Kim gives bad bjs
@@CL-lo4wdApparently she passed after four attempts.
I disagree with Dr Grande on this. They have served enough time. Those parents tortured them for so long that they were mental enough to commit such awful crimes. The money is gone, so they can no longer benefit from that, so just let them live some of their lives at least
Dr grande, i dont think society is alright with parents hitting, bullying and raping their children.
No, but it sure sounds like he thinks it's alright. Smh. This video is really ignorant.
Both of them are pathological liars!! Lyle threatened to kill the doctor and asked his ex-girlfriend to lie for him, before her testimony. This is another reason why he didn't testify during their last trial.
It's their word against someone who can't say anything
@@jcrnda exactly!! well said!
Society shouldn’t be OK with two adults planning a double homicide and a bunch of nitwits on social media who watched a Netflix series lining up to excuse MURDER!
Is there anyone who cares what she thinks?
Yes, even in these comments 😂
@@purringbluzzmuffin8030 see P Diddy
Nope
Brilliant, Dr. Grande! I can’t believe there are so many that support their release.
With evidence the father did it, how can one not.
They served 35 years in prison. They paid their dues with society for what they did. It’s time for them to be free
After a 28 year career in law enforcement and corrections I can tell you this…
The passage of time changes the narrative… give it enough time, the most notorious criminals imaginable can transform themselves into victim$. For nearly 30 years, that’s what I saw….
I’m sorry but the only reason they were even convicted is because the sex abuse wasn’t covered in the second trial. Jurors have said if they knew they never would’ve convicted the brothers. I agree that they should’ve just left the house since they were adults, but my father hasn’t sexually abused me for 15 years. I don’t know what was going through their minds
Anyone who is ok with having the brothers released should be equally ok with having them as roommates.
What's that you say ? No ? Why not ? These poor boys are perfectly harmless victims of abuse so having them in a couple of bedrooms down the hall should not be an issue.
Something wasn't right with that family. We will never know if SA took place, but assume for a minute it did. Should they die in jail? I don't think so. I hope they get out, and I would not be afraid of them. That home had some kind of bad juju. It's now gone, and the men are different people all these years later.
I would be totally happy to have them as roommates, the only people who should be worried are monsters like Jose and Kitty. Are you one?
I have to disagree. Manslaughter would have been a far more appropriate charge. There is ample evidence that they were abused, that their father was in fact a monster, and that their mother let it all happen. Could they simply have left? Yes. But did they think they could? That there was any hope that their father would not find them? That's the issue. Is what they did wrong? Yes. But it wasn't murder. At most it was manslaughter. And then there are the legal issues. A therapist secretly recording their patients in order to hand those recordings over to police is not only illegal but it should render that evidence and any evidence discovered as a result of it, including statements made by the brothers, inadmissible. I think the case caused a lot of parents to undertake a very brief period of very uncomfortable self-reflection. They wondered whether their own children would one day turn on them for all the bad things they have done. And instead of growing from that self-reflection and becoming better people - and better parents - they chose to demonize the brothers instead. And let's not even get into the fact that if they were sisters instead of brothers they never would have been convicted in the first place. They should be released. Nothing more is served by them continuing to be imprisoned.
It was premeditated which makes it murder
Manslaughter? For a planned double homicide involving multiple rounds?
@@tonyaparrish2308 Not if circumstances mitigate the alleged premeditation. Might I point out that owning a firearm for self-defense is a constitutional right and thus not evidence of anything. And under California law if a person kills another in an honest but unreasonable belief that the use of deadly force was necessary for self-defense they may be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. Given the circumstances there is ample evidence that the brothers believed that their parents were a threat to their lives. Was this in fact the case? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Did the brothers have the option of simply running away? Yes. But did they believe that that was actually an option given years of abuse and extreme control that their parents had subjected them to? I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that they genuinely but mistakenly thought that it wasn't an option. Which makes it a case of imperfect self-defense. Which makes the killings voluntary manslaughter not murder. Which is a maximum of 11 years. Even with two sentences running consecutively they would have been released years ago.
They could have simply gotten on the bus together and gone to a different state and gotten jobs even if it was just as waiters.
@@enjoystraveling Yes. But did they actually think that was an option? That's the issue here. If this was a case of a woman who was abused by her husband for 20 years and fearing for her life killed him would you be saying that she could have just gotten on a bus? I doubt it. I'm not saying they are innocent. What they did was wrong. But there are mitigating circumstances and under California imperfect self-defense is a partial defense. It lowers murder to voluntary manslaughter. Which I think is what should have happened. They still would have got two 11 year sentences. So it's not like they would have gotten away with it. But it would have been more appropriate. There's a lot of sexism at play in this case.
The brothers robbed neighbors and stole from family and the father was always covering for them, too late the father realized by doing this he put himself in danger.
Not surprised. Many children deal with the stress of a toxic living environment with delinquent acts
Sure, they can move into her guest room.
We need to stop a) coddling spoiled parent killers and b) listening to any of the Kardashian family about anything ever at all.
Also, Kim Kardashian can write?? 😮
AI
😅😅
I agree completely, with one exception... she certainly has to be an expert on maintaining an a$$ five times the expected girth of an average person. I'd love to know her secret to keeping her body fit and trim while maintaining an a$$ normally found on a morbidly obese person without surgical intervention. Not so I can have a big butt too, but so I can avoid such a tremendous derriere! Hahaha!
#freeTheMenendezBrothers
@@alparkranger 😂😅
Talk about rich privilege. The cops just immediately assumed they were innocent and didn't test them with the thought process of eliminating them as suspects.
so much rich privilege that america laughed at them for being tortured as children, jealousy is sick
Wow, titles do matter. I read Kim Kardashian and almost decided not to watch.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb and this is exactly what they did after going through so much abuse and bullying from their psychopath father, the mother was an accomplice. Regardless KK, they deserve a second chance, they have served in prison enough.
Nope
Yep
Source?
Maybe Kim can marry one of them and have another couple of children together.
😂😂
The Menendez brothers were denied justifiable homicide defense in their second trial. Their battered person syndrome defense was also, unjustifiably, denied which would have explained to the ignorant why they were incapable of ‘just leaving’. The egregious prosecution comment that the “abuse excuse” can’t be their defense because “men can not be raped because they lack the necessary equipment to be raped” also deflects that they were just boys when the abuse and control began. The simple elephant and chain analogy describes how learned behaviour prevents a big and powerful sentient being from escaping from its captivity and doing what is otherwise possible and seemingly easy looking at the situation from the outside in a safe, nurturing environment. But the abuser keeps their victims in fear, rendering the battered and tormented soul feeling hopeless, fearful and alone.