Supra won't ever get the S58. It's BMW's golden child and they will never give that up. If their other partners in other markets didn't get the S58, then Toyota won't get it either. GRMN may be possible, but it won't have the S58
@tinhinnh Supra pricing is dumb across the board. A Mustang Mach-1, Camaro SS 1LE, or M240i are all $5-10k less than a Supra 3.0. I get that there's more to a car than just performance, but that price makes it hard to buy a Supra instead of anything else.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872not if it’s all you see where I’m at all I see are those zo6, 1le, Mach 1 to gts, and especially scat packs and hellcats it’s not that hard to look for something different
Are they going to fix the window wind speed noise issue? Adding an oil dip stick? Adding an actual button trunk release on the outside of the trunk? Adding Android Auto?
2.0 was too expensive for a 4 cylinder. Not gonna deny the fact that it's a great car, but why not just spend a bit more and get the 3.0 when you're already spending a ton of money.
@@tinhinnh 9k might be a lot if you are buying a 20k car vs 29k car, but when you are already spending almost 50k for a car, might as well spend a lil more and get a better version.
I hate when they say "people aren't as interested" when not long ago this car was selling for almost 70k due to dealer markups. Even today around my area you cannot find one less than 65k. Yes, this is a great car but not at M3 prices. As for the 2.0 going away I am not sure if this is a manufacturer or dealer made but I see more of the base/affordable options not available on the market. In my case I am looking for an IS500 but dealers only sell the Premiun version which is almost 70k for extra stuff I do not want.
@@trdrav4 Exactly, so IDK If its the manufacturer not sending base models or the dealer only requesting premiuns, AFAIK Lexus doesn't do custom orders so its gotta be one or the other.
@@MR3DDev Could be that the model is not available to order anymore, perhaps for the rest of the model year. See what changes for 2025, if Lexus decides to only offer the "Premium" only going forward. I think it was better in 2022-23 when it was just one model code and had various ways to option it rather than the packaged approach that other OEMs have been doing
It’s funny that I totally know what it means how the 2.0 is better handling from my Celica on a microscopic scale compared to the Supra, my 1.8 supposedly handles better than the 2.2 cause weight
The most misunderstood car in automotive history. The Toyota purists wanted a 3jz and would have complained because it would have cost $80k+. I have a 2023 MKV 6MT and it’s such a fun car.
and that's why toyota was worried; history and numbers don't lie. Purist will type and cry about the toyota not making their own engine but when push comes to shove, they don't buy it. Good example is the manual option. Reviewers and keyboard warriors said they'll buy it if it came manual.... NOT. all talk.
Well, they need to actually fulfill the value proposition of 80k They half assed the supra and wonder why nobody really cares. So many morons just love to bootlick and eat their slop. “ we don’t get cool cars because enthusiasts won’t over pay” lmfao
I am laughing at the title of this video since I have been looking at GR Supra and never considered the non B58 version. And every dealership around my area charge $5,000 to $10,000 markup so my wallet has been ready for a long time. 😂
The 3.0 Supra will be a valuable collector's item, 15-20 years from now This will effectively be the last ICE Supra ever, and the last manual transmission Supra ever This is the end of an era, and many cars that weren't sales successes in their time have gone on to be very valuable in the future
@MWAclanGaming there were at least 10 cars with the 2JZ engine. It wasn't just in the supra and is300 lol. There were over 800,000 2JZ engines built and you can still orde an engine from toyota brand new today.
Wished they offered the Supra in a purple. That’s something I don’t like about Toyota and Lexus, their lack of customization. GRMN Supra will be like the GRMN Yaris, and will have more power, aero, and less weight.
@@AyaWettsyea kinda dumb to buy a brand new car and spend $3-6k on a wrap. Just like how people in this market buy an expensive house then double down by remodeling the whole thing.
I remember many people where not happy with Toyota teaming up with BMW for the Supra, many said "Just use the V6 from your Lexus line up." Toyota said "No, we want it to be an inline 6 like the MK4 was." Then Toyota gives us a 4 cylinder option, I dont recall the MK4 having a 4 cyl option. Anywho, noone wants to drop that much cash and not get the superior engine, yeah the insurance would be cheaper with the 4 cyl but if you can afford a Supra, then Insurance cost shouldn't be much of a factor.
Magnificent car, don't understand the critics regarding its BMW engine. Toyota codeveloped the car fir years, it took Bmw to long. Toyota has altered several components because of higher quality standards.... . So it is a proper Toyota, and a very good one.
Sports cars need styling updates every model year to pull in more buyers. Back in the 50s, regular cars got new styling every year for a lot of models.
GRMN won't get S58. At Best, it'll have a B58 with either a bigger turbo, or same turbo just tuned closer to 450hp. May even have a flex fuel option native. It's very unlikely to go much further than this. GRMN Might even be a stripped down lightweight track model.
As a launch edition owner with B58 tuning capabilities, the GRMN concept sounds cool, but nobody will buy it for 87k because of the S58 bringing 450hp. A few bolt ons & dyno for 5k, and it's already at 450-500hp. Add what they offering (weight, brakes, turbos) and you can DYI it for another 5k. For 10k, you can recreate a GRMN with top of the line parts. Basically it won't sell very well...
I recently saw a youtube video that two guys talking about how they hate Toyota is possibly collabrating with more other manufacters, and how they hate the supra because it's a BMW engine. I pointed out why that's actually a great thing to have B58 engine, and they simply replied "they don't care about how good B58 is, because it's not made by Toyota". I just felt entertained by how some of the new Supra haters/gate keepers being so ignorate about econmoy, market and car manufacters. Many interesting sports cars were able to exist because of collaboration, like Audi and Porche/Lambo, Alfa and Ferrari, Aston martin and AMG, etc. I honestly think with Toyota's focusing on economy cars and suvs right now, they simply don't have the budget, time, labor and resources to develop a brand new engine that is better than BMW's B58. It's 2024, the "Supra is a BMW "joke is really getting old and cliche. I saw toyota working with BMW as a good thing from the begining. Afterall, BMW is a more premium brand than Toyota, and they make seriously good M cars and engines, especially inline 6 engines. B58 is powerful, realible and has tons of tuning potential, not to mention the MPG destroys all its competitors. Similar thing when Alfa Romeo Giulia QV gets a Ferrari engine, no one was saying " oh, we don't want a Ferrari engineered engine, we want Alfa romeo to make their own engine". That would be so funny. I wish Toyota work with more manufacters if that's how they can save cost and keep these sports car in their lineup.
Exactly. People don’t really understand how difficult it is to make a new car (especially a sports car) in this economy. It’s amazing the Mk5 even exists in the first place.
toyota "working with" bmw is a stretch. it literally is a bmw. I don't remember any big time car manufacturer OUTSOURCING, not working on their halo car from a rival. Audi Porsche lambo all fall under the vw group. they're far from rivals. did the r35 outsource anything? they changed to a v6 and nobody batted an eye. Toyota halo sports car is a bmw and that's just embarrassing. if I wanted a bmw id buy and m2 or m4. I'm waiting for this to die and see what comes next. maybe buy a 3 cylinder gr86 if they make it.
@@bundamaker6747 The problem with these comments is they are surface level. “It’s a bmw, so it’s shit.” People kept begging Toyota to make new sports cars but every time they do it flops. Mk4, LFA, MR2. You have the RCF and Lc500 ( more of a gt car) Both solely made by Toyota and they are still a failure. Sure you have the GR Corolla, but you’re basically paying for the engine in that car since everything else is pretty dated and they want 50k for one. I don’t blame Toyota for going out of the way for partnerships now, it’s the only way to make a good affordable sports cars. The Z that’s built by solely Nissan is literally outclassed by everything in its price range along with it being recycled parts. The Nismo being a tragedy as well. (Edit: Typo)
I work for Toyota and oil changes on this car are around $500 which to me its crazy for that and only can be done by a professional specialized mechanic only not everyone can do it
Toyota priced this car TOO high. The 2.0 was a few thousand more than a base Nissan Z with a 400 HP twin turbo six. The GR Supra 2.0 SHOULD HAVE undercut the base Z so a $40K base for the 2.0 would've been far more reasonable. Toyota didn't think it through.
I’m sorry Kirk but I have to disagree with you. Great video as always btw👍🏽 thank you for your videos and know that you are appreciated for them. Your statement about low demand for the Supra is just plain wrong, The demand was and is there but Stealership MarkUps priced the Supra @ 6 figures in some cases when it first came out.
That’s cuz a large portion of us are tired of being ripped off by the stealerships. Markups need to be addressed man. It’s been years since COVID and the mess that came with that and we’re over the “over msrp” Shenanigans 😅
What about colors? Toyota had three or four grays and Silver’s and they’ve discontinued all of them. It was arguably the best shade for this shape and I hope at least one of them comes back.
Toyota did not want to sell the Supra. years on a waiting list, they wont let you customize it the way you want, and dealer mark up. They just needed a flagship.
Throw on some new black wheels, make it shorter and stubbier, add a fake roof vent to complete the fake every panel vent theme, and add even more cuts and creases to the front bumper and it'll be complete.
Do people actually buy the 2.0 Supra? I would consider one if they fixed the interior design and all the fake vents on the car. Otherwise, it is a really fun car to drive.
If these new supras started coming with a targa top it would be perfect to me. It’s definitely something i would love Toyota to do. Targa and a manual would be so much fun
3:35 Or it could have been the 2.0 was better slated for production elsewhere. Im not sure where else w/ out doing research that mill is put but that's a huge consideration. They may have a need and market but production is limited and its better used elsewhere. Its a possible reason.
What doesn't make senses Toyota is phasing out there V6 in the Camry and 4 runner For fuel efficiency and yet they already have a 2.0 in the supra and they are eliminating that and only carrying the V6.
Getting rid of the 2.0 also makes more space in between The 3.0 and the 86. More space for .... something else.... If Toyota is serious about putting more gr models out there, it would make a lot of sense for each separate model to have one (unique) powertrain option to eliminate overlap. No need to offer 3 or 4 engine choices like the mustang or Camaro suite. go the Miata and 86 route, save a bunch of production costs and then build a singular identity for each model.
They shot them selfs in the foot from the start with the 2.0. It was priced much to high to stand a chance. Needed to come in at like 38-40k, then You would have seen ppl buying them up. It’s silly to pick the 2.0 over the 3.0 with such a small difference in price the way they had it priced.
I don’t see the point in bothering with the 2.0. Just get the GR86 at that point. The 3.0’s problem is it’s too damn expensive, they’re in the M2 price territory for the lower engine. Lower the price and you’ll sell more. Also Toyotas problem in general is not being able to order a vehicle how you want it.
2.0’s most likely discontinuing due to the GR86 going to have to years 30-40k One with the 3cyl and then the 40k option adding electric motors (Or what speculations say since subaru is discontinuing the brz and their partnership ends.)
Double clutching...really Kirk? This is a modern ZF 6MT. I'm starting to question your driving competence between you saying the b58's power being unmanageable on a track and the double clutching statement. 🤔🤔🤔
I think this is the end of the Supra run, they're not going to put out the grmn with a different engine and body aerodynamics just for little production cars. I think the most saught after Supra will be the A91MT because of the lowest number of production and being the first manual mk5, also the Cu later gray color. I remember when the Supra mk4 wasn't selling and dealers were heavily discounting them because people lost interest. The MKV will be the very desirable one in the near future
I have an A91-MT and my Toyota dealer has 2 technicians that can work on them. And I have an OBD reader that works great on my Supra. Changes a few settings no problem.
Just heard saw about two days ago that Toyota is breaking away from Subaru on the Toyota 86 and they're gonna use the turbo charged electrified 3 cylinder engine producing 300-350 HP which would make the 2.0 Supra pretty much obsolete because the 86 will outrun it in every way except maybe the super hardcore Supra lovers would want to keep it but in reality it won't compare as a driver's car. The 86 crowd will go buts and it'll probably drive up the price because of the demand, Toyota will really and hopefully keep that under control because it would kill the cheaper sports car crowd,that would be a shame.
They more or less didn't bring many 2.0s as is because the 2.0 was aimed more for markets with higher taxes on cars. The 1st year they even brought them over they were hard to fund because the majority of mk5s brought over were 3.0s so it's not surprising at all they axed it.
Slap a few thousand more dollars on the Supra. Toyota has to recover some costs, for some truck engine issues, safety testing issues, vehicle fit-and-finish issues, and corporate management issues.
@@DiggyT just because there are Supra’s on lots doesn’t mean people aren’t buying. You do remember 5 years ago cars on the lot was a normal thing. Even still the Supra was never going to be a volume seller in fact they have already met demand because if you wanted one you bought one already.
@@rashodm7129 point I’m making it people expect everything to be cheap without sacrificing anything. So if you want something sporty to drive and you can afford a Supra find something that fits your budget.
Kirk I hope all is well with you. I was 300% sure of buying the manual transmission supra when it came out until I sat in one of them. The inside of the car is extremely cramped and claustrophobic. I would love to own one, but I think Toyota messed up on the inside of that car. Great content, keep up the good work 👏 🙌
There is so much to like about the Surpa MKV it being a BMW. It's built like a tank unlike Japanese cars, it has high quality interior compared to Japanese like the Z, the b58 is awesome, the low numbers of production mean the car will be even more valuable. BMW is simply more premium than Toyota in almost all aspects
I wish I lived in Europe or Asia. These car sell at just $30k today for a 2023 with 28,000 km on the odometer on Beforward 😢😢😢. Hate U.S. dealerships for being damn greedy and local government not doing jack about it smh
Lose some weight perhaps? There are advantages to the low roofline, eg low winter sun is not a problem in this awesome fun machine. I guess you're better suited fat boring suvs cause your wife said so, lol
lmao might as well get a Mk4 cuz that aint never happening and I have a Supra Mk5 myself, its not happening if it does that car will be at least 80-90k
As great as the S58 is, if only Toyota would put the 2JZ in, 100% the Supra would take off, as far as money and sell goes. Granted, I get that the 2JZ is old tech, but it's one of if not the best online 6 engine ever bulit.
@Kirk Kreifeis, 8:10 , is have not driven the manual supra but based on what you described in the video about the character of the MT shifting from 1st to 2nd is similar to what i have in my 2022 mini cooper S with the 6-speed german Getrag MT. Do you happen to know who made the MT in the 3.0 and even the 2.0 (if they have it in Europe)?
The supra makes no sense. It's not a 2+2, no targa, manual came late, not a GT car and costs essentially the same as a M2 which is a lot more like a Supra should be. I'm 5'9 185lbs and I don't fit in the supra. It has a tighter interior than a Miata, rides like absolute shit and the front and rear feel like two different cars. Is it fun to drive? Yeah, it's got a lot of power and a short wheelbase. It's just not very stable or comfortable while having a fixed roof....whats the fun in that? It's not communicative, it's not connected and it's not comfortable. Just because it has an inline six they call it a supra lol it has zero dna of the first 4 generations. Yeah, the b58 is great but you can get it in literally any BMW made for the last 8 years lol not really very special. The whole mk5 is just a big meh from sales, performance, purpose and design. It's a flop.
You make it ound as if the 3.0 is a monster when in fact it really isnt that fast by today s standards. 4.0 seconds 0 to 60 and a low 12 second quarter mile is not blistering fast these days .
Supra won't ever get the S58. It's BMW's golden child and they will never give that up. If their other partners in other markets didn't get the S58, then Toyota won't get it either. GRMN may be possible, but it won't have the S58
At least Range Rover Sport SV uses S63
nobody cares, because most people want toyota engine and toyota supra, not borrowed parts
@@bjsimon802nobody wants a lame Toyota engine when bmw engines are already better 😂
@@ehrichs24 ya when it bleeds oil you will understand quickly . Those engines will always run into problems.
the b58 is notoriously reliable so ur making urself look silly x
My guess is that most would-be 2.0 buyers got an 86 instead.
2.0 is faster than 86 but almost $15k more
@tinhinnh Supra pricing is dumb across the board. A Mustang Mach-1, Camaro SS 1LE, or M240i are all $5-10k less than a Supra 3.0. I get that there's more to a car than just performance, but that price makes it hard to buy a Supra instead of anything else.
@@tinhinnh Supra also had a higher markup when it first came out, that adds another 3k-5k difference.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872not if it’s all you see where I’m at all I see are those zo6, 1le, Mach 1 to gts, and especially scat packs and hellcats it’s not that hard to look for something different
Are they going to fix the window wind speed noise issue? Adding an oil dip stick? Adding an actual button trunk release on the outside of the trunk? Adding Android Auto?
2.0 was too expensive for a 4 cylinder. Not gonna deny the fact that it's a great car, but why not just spend a bit more and get the 3.0 when you're already spending a ton of money.
$9k is a lil more than “a bit more”
@@tinhinnh 9k might be a lot if you are buying a 20k car vs 29k car, but when you are already spending almost 50k for a car, might as well spend a lil more and get a better version.
@@floggyWM1well 4cyl is axed for ‘25 anyway
In a lot of different countries the taxes for 2.0 vs 3.0 is the difference between 70k or 140k supra
Or instead, you could just get the GR86, it's a 2.4L 4 cyl which costs around 31k and you could save yourself 15k
In my opinion, the b58 engine is one of the best engines in the car industry and it’s simply more desirable than the 2.0 engine
Agree
Agree, the B58/48 family of engines are a great combo of power, smoothness, efficiency and reliability.
The b48 is the same just 2cyls chopped off also also has better gas mileage but in terms of performance over economical the b48 gets its ass whooped
@@mondragonmsaul308 I know. Both reliable.
@@mondragonmsaul308MPG are literally the same my guy 😂.
I hate when they say "people aren't as interested" when not long ago this car was selling for almost 70k due to dealer markups. Even today around my area you cannot find one less than 65k. Yes, this is a great car but not at M3 prices.
As for the 2.0 going away I am not sure if this is a manufacturer or dealer made but I see more of the base/affordable options not available on the market. In my case I am looking for an IS500 but dealers only sell the Premiun version which is almost 70k for extra stuff I do not want.
I've noticed that...there are no IS500 FSP (model code 9554) to be found, but plenty of the Premiums (9556)
@@trdrav4 Exactly, so IDK If its the manufacturer not sending base models or the dealer only requesting premiuns, AFAIK Lexus doesn't do custom orders so its gotta be one or the other.
@@MR3DDev Could be that the model is not available to order anymore, perhaps for the rest of the model year. See what changes for 2025, if Lexus decides to only offer the "Premium" only going forward. I think it was better in 2022-23 when it was just one model code and had various ways to option it rather than the packaged approach that other OEMs have been doing
@@trdrav4 i have not seen any changes coming
M3 prices? They start at $85k base. Not close to a new M3.
The 2.0 may be the better handling car, but it isn't enough thousand dollars less than the 3.0
Maybe for you. The 2.0T is a perfect daily with a stage 1 tune and gets you 38mpg on the highway. Best of both worlds.🎉
It more like 9-10k less rather than just 1k
It’s funny that I totally know what it means how the 2.0 is better handling from my Celica on a microscopic scale compared to the Supra, my 1.8 supposedly handles better than the 2.2 cause weight
@@mondragonmsaul308 I don't think anyone said it was 1k less.
@@ytj22That how you made it seem
The most misunderstood car in automotive history. The Toyota purists wanted a 3jz and would have complained because it would have cost $80k+. I have a 2023 MKV 6MT and it’s such a fun car.
and that's why toyota was worried; history and numbers don't lie. Purist will type and cry about the toyota not making their own engine but when push comes to shove, they don't buy it. Good example is the manual option. Reviewers and keyboard warriors said they'll buy it if it came manual.... NOT. all talk.
@@herewegoagain7403 Exactly. People just love to complain regardless.
@@chrisginoc agree
Well, they need to actually fulfill the value proposition of 80k
They half assed the supra and wonder why nobody really cares.
So many morons just love to bootlick and eat their slop.
“ we don’t get cool cars because enthusiasts won’t over pay” lmfao
80k plus 😂 where are you getting these numbers, they could have literally built a new engine just like the GR Corolla.
Good move by Toyota on taking away the 2.0. It only means the Celica is around the corner.
The potential price is what scares me
no
@@goodbad-boy Yeah!
@@lordbuntcake It should be around the same as the Supra 2.0
I wouldn't say so much people aren't interested any more, its more the people who want it can't afford it.
Toyota making room in the lineup for the new Celica GT 4 cylinder
Hell yeah, I would pay good money for a 350hp celica awd.
I am laughing at the title of this video since I have been looking at GR Supra and never considered the non B58 version. And every dealership around my area charge $5,000 to $10,000 markup so my wallet has been ready for a long time. 😂
And still no targa top 😢
That would look amazing
I’ve got a pretty built up model and would have to seeeeriously consider the trade up if a targa top came out.
Agreed, big miss and would sell.
The 3.0 Supra will be a valuable collector's item, 15-20 years from now
This will effectively be the last ICE Supra ever, and the last manual transmission Supra ever
This is the end of an era, and many cars that weren't sales successes in their time have gone on to be very valuable in the future
Maybe, but who’s going to spend 60-70k and just leave it in a barn for 20 years. Drive it, who gives an EF what it’s worth in 20 years it’s a car
Not really, the B58 is massive produce engine as the turbo 2JZ wasn't.
Maybe there's rumors that the mk6 will have gas engines at least as an option
Would rather get a mint n/a m3 at that point. The prices are already rising
@MWAclanGaming there were at least 10 cars with the 2JZ engine. It wasn't just in the supra and is300 lol. There were over 800,000 2JZ engines built and you can still orde an engine from toyota brand new today.
Its expensive now because they are killing it in 2026 next to the BMW Z4
Wished they offered the Supra in a purple. That’s something I don’t like about Toyota and Lexus, their lack of customization.
GRMN Supra will be like the GRMN Yaris, and will have more power, aero, and less weight.
not hard to get the car wrapped in whatever color you want
@@AyaWettsyeah spending 3k on a wrap is totally easy to afford.
@@null1909 If your stretching your budget so far where you cannot afford it, you probably shouldn't be spending that much on a car yet anyways
@@AyaWettsI don’t agree. If you can afford a car you want but can’t afford a wrap, that doesn’t mean to not get the car altogether. A silly take fr.
@@AyaWettsyea kinda dumb to buy a brand new car and spend $3-6k on a wrap. Just like how people in this market buy an expensive house then double down by remodeling the whole thing.
I remember many people where not happy with Toyota teaming up with BMW for the Supra, many said "Just use the V6 from your Lexus line up." Toyota said "No, we want it to be an inline 6 like the MK4 was." Then Toyota gives us a 4 cylinder option, I dont recall the MK4 having a 4 cyl option. Anywho, noone wants to drop that much cash and not get the superior engine, yeah the insurance would be cheaper with the 4 cyl but if you can afford a Supra, then Insurance cost shouldn't be much of a factor.
If it's sold and listed under 400 hp the insurance will always be cheaper. A 2.0 or 3.0 makes 0 difference...
Magnificent car, don't understand the critics regarding its BMW engine. Toyota codeveloped the car fir years, it took Bmw to long. Toyota has altered several components because of higher quality standards.... .
So it is a proper Toyota, and a very good one.
Sports cars need styling updates every model year to pull in more buyers. Back in the 50s, regular cars got new styling every year for a lot of models.
currently driving F36 GC 440i, zf8 + B58 is god-send.
I used to own F36 440i GC, one of the reasons I chose Supra. I like the styling and powered by B58 and Zf8 speed was perfect
Probably taking out the 2.0 with the MR2s and Celica possibly coming.
GRMN won't get S58.
At Best, it'll have a B58 with either a bigger turbo, or same turbo just tuned closer to 450hp. May even have a flex fuel option native.
It's very unlikely to go much further than this.
GRMN Might even be a stripped down lightweight track model.
As a launch edition owner with B58 tuning capabilities, the GRMN concept sounds cool, but nobody will buy it for 87k because of the S58 bringing 450hp. A few bolt ons & dyno for 5k, and it's already at 450-500hp. Add what they offering (weight, brakes, turbos) and you can DYI it for another 5k. For 10k, you can recreate a GRMN with top of the line parts. Basically it won't sell very well...
I recently saw a youtube video that two guys talking about how they hate Toyota is possibly collabrating with more other manufacters, and how they hate the supra because it's a BMW engine. I pointed out why that's actually a great thing to have B58 engine, and they simply replied "they don't care about how good B58 is, because it's not made by Toyota".
I just felt entertained by how some of the new Supra haters/gate keepers being so ignorate about econmoy, market and car manufacters. Many interesting sports cars were able to exist because of collaboration, like Audi and Porche/Lambo, Alfa and Ferrari, Aston martin and AMG, etc. I honestly think with Toyota's focusing on economy cars and suvs right now, they simply don't have the budget, time, labor and resources to develop a brand new engine that is better than BMW's B58.
It's 2024, the "Supra is a BMW "joke is really getting old and cliche. I saw toyota working with BMW as a good thing from the begining. Afterall, BMW is a more premium brand than Toyota, and they make seriously good M cars and engines, especially inline 6 engines. B58 is powerful, realible and has tons of tuning potential, not to mention the MPG destroys all its competitors. Similar thing when Alfa Romeo Giulia QV gets a Ferrari engine, no one was saying " oh, we don't want a Ferrari engineered engine, we want Alfa romeo to make their own engine". That would be so funny.
I wish Toyota work with more manufacters if that's how they can save cost and keep these sports car in their lineup.
You are absolutely correct My friend. 💯. These haters are disconnected from reality.
Exactly. People don’t really understand how difficult it is to make a new car (especially a sports car) in this economy. It’s amazing the Mk5 even exists in the first place.
@@AJayDrives agree
toyota "working with" bmw is a stretch. it literally is a bmw. I don't remember any big time car manufacturer OUTSOURCING, not working on their halo car from a rival. Audi Porsche lambo all fall under the vw group. they're far from rivals.
did the r35 outsource anything? they changed to a v6 and nobody batted an eye. Toyota halo sports car is a bmw and that's just embarrassing. if I wanted a bmw id buy and m2 or m4. I'm waiting for this to die and see what comes next. maybe buy a 3 cylinder gr86 if they make it.
@@bundamaker6747 The problem with these comments is they are surface level. “It’s a bmw, so it’s shit.”
People kept begging Toyota to make new sports cars but every time they do it flops. Mk4, LFA, MR2. You have the RCF and Lc500 ( more of a gt car) Both solely made by Toyota and they are still a failure. Sure you have the GR Corolla, but you’re basically paying for the engine in that car since everything else is pretty dated and they want 50k for one. I don’t blame Toyota for going out of the way for partnerships now, it’s the only way to make a good affordable sports cars.
The Z that’s built by solely Nissan is literally outclassed by everything in its price range along with it being recycled parts. The Nismo being a tragedy as well. (Edit: Typo)
isn't it cuz sales for 2.0 has been low?
as a 6spd supra owner, incorrect on flying through the gears, as long as you're spinning the tires they're smooth and fun.
I work for Toyota and oil changes on this car are around $500 which to me its crazy for that and only can be done by a professional specialized mechanic only not everyone can do it
Toyota priced this car TOO high. The 2.0 was a few thousand more than a base Nissan Z with a 400 HP twin turbo six. The GR Supra 2.0 SHOULD HAVE undercut the base Z so a $40K base for the 2.0 would've been far more reasonable. Toyota didn't think it through.
Facts
It honestly wouldn't have matter because they barely brought any 2.0s over to the US market as is tbh.
What do you do with GR86 sales then?
Any news for the 2025 GR Corolla?
They need to get on with the targa top and face-lift already. They've already shown they could if they wanted.
Literally dealerships are STILL asking for $10k markup on the manual transmissions...
The 2.0 is a B48 same as in the Mini JCW running a lower compression. More similar to the GP3 mini. 300 whp is extremely reliable and easy to work on.
Never made sense to have a 47k sportscar option without a manual. Either get the gr86 for 15k less or pay 10k more for a manual supra.
I’m sorry Kirk but I have to disagree with you.
Great video as always btw👍🏽 thank you for your videos and know that you are appreciated for them.
Your statement about low demand for the Supra is just plain wrong, The demand was and is there but Stealership MarkUps priced the Supra @ 6 figures in some cases when it first came out.
Toyota only managed to sell 484 Supras last quarter recording a 46% decline.
That’s cuz a large portion of us are tired of being ripped off by the stealerships. Markups need to be addressed man. It’s been years since COVID and the mess that came with that and we’re over the “over msrp” Shenanigans 😅
@@KirkKreifels There are still waitlists... How are there waitlists if there isn't demand? Toyota cut production in half.
@@heh2khow is there waitlist when they are sitting on the showroom floors unsold
@@adamsercovich4383 because of dealer mark up.
What about colors? Toyota had three or four grays and Silver’s and they’ve discontinued all of them. It was arguably the best shade for this shape and I hope at least one of them comes back.
Whoever says 382 hp isn’t fast has never been in a fast car..
Yeah people are crazy. My GR Corolla barely makes 300 and it feels so fast to me.
I disagree 😂
That seems backwards to me. People who HAVE been in fast cars would say 382 hp isn't fast.
I own the 2023 2.0. So much fun and more than enough power. It's my fountain of youth. $43,000. I got it for me and no one else.
Toyota did not want to sell the Supra. years on a waiting list, they wont let you customize it the way you want, and dealer mark up. They just needed a flagship.
Throw on some new black wheels, make it shorter and stubbier, add a fake roof vent to complete the fake every panel vent theme, and add even more cuts and creases to the front bumper and it'll be complete.
Don’t think blow would sell them the s58, also the m2/m3 doesn’t have a dct
Manual took too long to come out. I stopped paying attention to it. Just found out in this video that they even had a manual transmission.
Do people actually buy the 2.0 Supra? I would consider one if they fixed the interior design and all the fake vents on the car. Otherwise, it is a really fun car to drive.
its crazy world, some people hope it gets faster, others wish it gets slower
If these new supras started coming with a targa top it would be perfect to me. It’s definitely something i would love Toyota to do. Targa and a manual would be so much fun
I STILL say they need to do an M version of this car.
I hate how the price on the website isn’t real
3:35 Or it could have been the 2.0 was better slated for production elsewhere. Im not sure where else w/ out doing research that mill is put but that's a huge consideration. They may have a need and market but production is limited and its better used elsewhere. Its a possible reason.
toyota have said GR Supra 2.0L is discontinued for 2025 model year.
I would buy one if they can update this gen of Supra by fixing all the common issues reported such as wind noise, fake sound.
What doesn't make senses Toyota is phasing out there V6 in the Camry and 4 runner For fuel efficiency and yet they already have a 2.0 in the supra and they are eliminating that and only carrying the V6.
Getting rid of the 2.0 also makes more space in between The 3.0 and the 86. More space for .... something else....
If Toyota is serious about putting more gr models out there, it would make a lot of sense for each separate model to have one (unique) powertrain option to eliminate overlap. No need to offer 3 or 4 engine choices like the mustang or Camaro suite. go the Miata and 86 route, save a bunch of production costs and then build a singular identity for each model.
I just saw another video from someone else saying it may be a hybrid ?
We get scammed in Germany… the Supra is 68k € here what is ~ 73.000 USD.
They shot them selfs in the foot from the start with the 2.0. It was priced much to high to stand a chance. Needed to come in at like 38-40k, then You would have seen ppl buying them up.
It’s silly to pick the 2.0 over the 3.0 with such a small difference in price the way they had it priced.
I've driven a Supra and it's just a BMW on the inside and it's super cramped.
I don’t see the point in bothering with the 2.0. Just get the GR86 at that point. The 3.0’s problem is it’s too damn expensive, they’re in the M2 price territory for the lower engine. Lower the price and you’ll sell more. Also Toyotas problem in general is not being able to order a vehicle how you want it.
2.0’s most likely discontinuing due to the GR86 going to have to years 30-40k One with the 3cyl and then the 40k option adding electric motors (Or what speculations say since subaru is discontinuing the brz and their partnership ends.)
Double clutching...really Kirk? This is a modern ZF 6MT. I'm starting to question your driving competence between you saying the b58's power being unmanageable on a track and the double clutching statement. 🤔🤔🤔
They need to offer a Supra Woodland edition.
😂😂😂
Pretty sure the 2025 Supra is the last year. BMW Z4 platform is being discontinued 2026.
I think this is the end of the Supra run, they're not going to put out the grmn with a different engine and body aerodynamics just for little production cars. I think the most saught after Supra will be the A91MT because of the lowest number of production and being the first manual mk5, also the Cu later gray color. I remember when the Supra mk4 wasn't selling and dealers were heavily discounting them because people lost interest. The MKV will be the very desirable one in the near future
It's most likely because of the rumors from the Japanese that in 2026 there going to put the B48 in the 86.
Anyone working on them yet? BMW won’t and Toyota dealers won’t. Any aftermarket OBD2 readers work with the Supra?
I have an A91-MT and my Toyota dealer has 2 technicians that can work on them. And I have an OBD reader that works great on my Supra. Changes a few settings no problem.
Where do you get info that most wouldn’t be able to find?
Need to make a silvia or celica next...that would be awesome!!
Just heard saw about two days ago that Toyota is breaking away from Subaru on the Toyota 86 and they're gonna use the turbo charged electrified 3 cylinder engine producing 300-350 HP which would make the 2.0 Supra pretty much obsolete because the 86 will outrun it in every way except maybe the super hardcore Supra lovers would want to keep it but in reality it won't compare as a driver's car. The 86 crowd will go buts and it'll probably drive up the price because of the demand, Toyota will really and hopefully keep that under control because it would kill the cheaper sports car crowd,that would be a shame.
The 3.0 will punish you if you're not careful 😂
That made me chuckle
Smart move on their part since the 86 is gonna be boosted now. So they’ll eliminate inner competition
it pisses me off they won't upgrade the infotainment system and it doest even have android auto!? in 2025? ridiculous
Not many people were buying 2.0, you could get a mustang GT (V8) for that price.
Isn’t this the last year for the Supra? O read somewhere that they were discontinuing because of the lack of sales
Do you think they removed the original 2.0 engine because the rumored gr Corolla engine will be used for the future car?
They more or less didn't bring many 2.0s as is because the 2.0 was aimed more for markets with higher taxes on cars. The 1st year they even brought them over they were hard to fund because the majority of mk5s brought over were 3.0s so it's not surprising at all they axed it.
Slap a few thousand more dollars on the Supra. Toyota has to recover some costs, for some truck engine issues, safety testing issues, vehicle fit-and-finish issues, and corporate management issues.
Well, about 45 of those are sitting at my work place.. or at least where a few weeks ago..
Supra costs too much, people want a fun a affordable sports car.
Then buy a cheap affordable sports car like a GR Corolla. No one is giving you 6 cylinders for cheap.
@@DeadAir21Did you miss the part where noone is buying this?
@DeadAir21 did you just call a corolla a sports car? 😂😂
@@DiggyT just because there are Supra’s on lots doesn’t mean people aren’t buying. You do remember 5 years ago cars on the lot was a normal thing. Even still the Supra was never going to be a volume seller in fact they have already met demand because if you wanted one you bought one already.
@@rashodm7129 point I’m making it people expect everything to be cheap without sacrificing anything. So if you want something sporty to drive and you can afford a Supra find something that fits your budget.
How is this thing still being sold? No way they continue selling it
U say that and the RCF and LC500 still exists.
is not the best engine BMW ever made, is the best engine toyota made. toyota kept sending the engine back to them to fix it,lol
Kirk I hope all is well with you. I was 300% sure of buying the manual transmission supra when it came out until I sat in one of them. The inside of the car is extremely cramped and claustrophobic. I would love to own one, but I think Toyota messed up on the inside of that car. Great content, keep up the good work 👏 🙌
Then add the promised 15% or more import tariff...getting expensive FAST.
Why was the 2.0 even an option to begin with
Its a hidden menu item. You have to go to the dealership and ask 🤫
There is so much to like about the Surpa MKV it being a BMW. It's built like a tank unlike Japanese cars, it has high quality interior compared to Japanese like the Z, the b58 is awesome, the low numbers of production mean the car will be even more valuable. BMW is simply more premium than Toyota in almost all aspects
Supra pricing is frustrating. I was just pricing out a 3.0 2025 yesterday but they want $60k/$790 per month with military discount. It’s just too much
Yah prices don't make any sense for what it is
In canada 3.0 premium has been your only option
The engine may be sweet, but it’s what’s cooling it that matters. In the case of a BMW, that’s a consideration…
They're faster than that. 2.0T 0-60 in 4.7. It's the same motor as the 330i rwd and that's 5.5 seconds.
No targa top yet? Man I was hoping they would do it
Still using fake vents at this price point, speechless!
I wish I lived in Europe or Asia. These car sell at just $30k today for a 2023 with 28,000 km on the odometer on Beforward 😢😢😢. Hate U.S. dealerships for being damn greedy and local government not doing jack about it smh
Tried to sit in a Supra, not easy to get into and looking out through small narrow windows, not for me !!! Low volume, I wonder why lol.
Lose some weight perhaps? There are advantages to the low roofline, eg low winter sun is not a problem in this awesome fun machine. I guess you're better suited fat boring suvs cause your wife said so, lol
I got nothing against BMW but im gona wait till Supra have a Toyota engine and interior
You weren’t buying one anyway..
You'll be waiting forever.
lmao might as well get a Mk4 cuz that aint never happening and I have a Supra Mk5 myself, its not happening if it does that car will be at least 80-90k
Priced like a luxury car. No wonder why it’s getting the axe soon
It is a luxury car. It's more BMW than Toyota.
As great as the S58 is, if only Toyota would put the 2JZ in, 100% the Supra would take off, as far as money and sell goes. Granted, I get that the 2JZ is old tech, but it's one of if not the best online 6 engine ever bulit.
It wouldn't
@Kirk Kreifeis, 8:10 , is have not driven the manual supra but based on what you described in the video about the character of the MT shifting from 1st to 2nd is similar to what i have in my 2022 mini cooper S with the 6-speed german Getrag MT. Do you happen to know who made the MT in the 3.0 and even the 2.0 (if they have it in Europe)?
The supra makes no sense. It's not a 2+2, no targa, manual came late, not a GT car and costs essentially the same as a M2 which is a lot more like a Supra should be. I'm 5'9 185lbs and I don't fit in the supra. It has a tighter interior than a Miata, rides like absolute shit and the front and rear feel like two different cars. Is it fun to drive? Yeah, it's got a lot of power and a short wheelbase. It's just not very stable or comfortable while having a fixed roof....whats the fun in that? It's not communicative, it's not connected and it's not comfortable. Just because it has an inline six they call it a supra lol it has zero dna of the first 4 generations.
Yeah, the b58 is great but you can get it in literally any BMW made for the last 8 years lol not really very special. The whole mk5 is just a big meh from sales, performance, purpose and design. It's a flop.
Summed it up well.
Better they got rid of the smaller engine than the bigger one with all engines seemingly becoming smaller in sports cars
I’ll consider the Supra GRMN only because of the DTC.
Lines are too soft and frumpy looking...
Says no one that actually owns one
Read that announcement. Still no signs of Android Auto. Le sigh. It'll probably end its life without any update of the infotainment system.
You make it ound as if the 3.0 is a monster when in fact it really isnt that fast by today s standards. 4.0 seconds 0 to 60 and a low 12 second quarter mile is not blistering fast these days .
what are you talking about, that’s still fast for the price you get the car at and not to mention beats base model c7 stingrays
@@That1Bupra no it doesn’t I ve owned many c 7 stingrays and have run 11.7 in the quarter Supra is s nowhere near that
Are we expecting sienna(family van) redesign?